Rick Olney--Fibber or Mega-Giganta-Fibber?

[Gail Simone]

I should say that TODAY, that is to say, TODAY, I got two new emails from people Rick stiffed.

Gail

[IvanJim]

Do not feel pity or sympathy for Olney. He's like a nigerian scammer; he's so morally repugnant that nothing you say about him can possibly be bad enough to cover it. Like I said earlier, it's impossible to stoop to his level. The best you can do is kneel down in the gutter and shout down the sewer at him.

Actually he's worse than a Nigerian scam artist. At least they have the excuse of coming from a place of deprivation, poverty and crushing need. Olney is a sociopath who comes from a place of relishing the personal harm he can do to other people while servicing vicarious personal needs.

I have no problem with a group of people coming down, and coming down hard, on someone who relentlessly has done his best to harm people who are working towards personal goals and trying to get ahead in a field that's difficult to break into. If he were merely someone who had gone astray in the service of meeting his own difficult to achieve goals, I'd still condemn him harshly but I'd feel some sympathy toward his short sighted intentions.

Since he's actually someone who relishes the pain he causes (and having read his posts and jousted with him at Comicon more than once over several years, I feel certain of this motivation), and since he's consistantly twisted the empathy of others to manipulate and harm them, he doesn't deserve the sympathy that should be reserved for those folks who are even partially well intended. As he's shown as recently as his latest posts, that if he can find a way to do so, he'll only use that empathy to harm those extending it towards him.

Any other person who has posted angrily or foolishly I'd allow the luxury of imagining hidden and weakened good intentions. Of Olney I know better, and if one's only encounters with him are just reading this monster thread (and clearly there is far far more out there), the careful reader would have to come to that same conclusion.

[Matt Doc Martin]

If anybody want's to help out with this massive project, it would be much appreciated. Especially since MDM's file is pretty massive.

Papier-femme and sk716, I am PM'ing you a link to the newest entries in my ever growing log.

I may have some time tomorrow...I will let you know.

[DrewEdwards]

We could...PUT AN AD ON MADONNA'S FRILLIES!

Gail


Hrm. Off-beat, yet to the point. I like this plan.

http://frank.harvard.edu/~jason/thoughts/picard.jpg


Make it so!

[DrewEdwards]

See the SPA's Accountability Initiative: http://www.dimestoreproductions.com/



I do now. ;)

[Papergirl]

Papier-femme and sk716, I am PM'ing you a link to the newest entries in my ever growing log.

I may have some time tomorrow...I will let you know.
Got them, Matt! Thanks! You rock!

~Bev

[Danny Donovan]

I should say that TODAY, that is to say, TODAY, I got two new emails from people Rick stiffed.

Gail

I was just on the phone with a friend of mine about this who thankfully only lost time, and not money or anything else. This matter has been posted elsewhere and attracted the attention of her girlfriend, who was also affected by some of the lies.

I mentioned this thread and they'll be signing up and posting soon. I know JoSelle's been reading along sporadically. ;) *waves at Jo* but yeah, there are a few people I know that have just caught wind of it, and will be contacting you either via e-mail or signing up for the forums.

[TomStillwell]

Other than this thread, what more can be done to get the word out. As famous as this has become, there's always going to be newcomers who don't know?

I think Gail, Mark, and Kurt should slip the warning into every one of the comics they write.

I personally am changing the title of my comic from The Honor Brigade to The Honor (speaking of which, Rick Olney wouldn't know honor if he passed it like a gall stone) Brigade.

[Jack Zodiac]

And I'd buy two copies of each!

[TomStillwell]

And I'd buy two copies of each!

Done and done!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/Zapow21/Just%20Stuff/HB2RO.jpg

[Blake Petit]

Totally off-topic, Tom, but I just wanted to let you know I told my comic shop guys to order me copies of The Honor Brigade today. ;)

[lawnstatues]

After reading every post and link on this thread I have to say that I'm stunned at what a chittering fuck-monkey Rick Olney is. Sorry, I just have to.

[TomStillwell]

Totally off-topic, Tom, but I just wanted to let you know I told my comic shop guys to order me copies of The Honor Brigade today. ;)

Rock on, Blake! Thanks.

[DocAbsurd]

There's people from the SPA like DOC, Ian, Ferretshark and JoAnne who've been his scapegoats for years. There's creators like Danny, James (OMG, James! I ain't heard from you in ages!) and myself who tried to help him reach his goals (questionable though they may have turned out to be) since 2003, and sat idly by in the name of friendship as we were promised payment month after month, year after year. There's other creators who turned a blind eye to the painful drek he churned out in the name of 'creative visions' only to have their loyalty and their talents stomped to dirt.

If he was smart, he woulda sloughed this off as the offal he's claimed it to be, maybe gotten one or 2 supporters to chime in for his defense, and walked away from it all.

Read this whole thing through. If he had simply filed it under 'plebes to ignore', this whole thread woulda fizzled faster than a fuse in a monsoon. But no; he had to posture, had to hurl threats, had to bring up and question our personal hurts that many of us trusted to him in utter confidentiality. He tried to make a big deal of Gail's pseudonym. He hurled innuendo at JoAnne's semi-autobiographical character. He mocked Ronee's divorce. Feck, he claimed I've been lying about what the Things and I are going through.

He's been hiding behind legal mumbo-jumbo, twisting whatever law he can Google up to suit his own needs. He's threatened people, then threatened more simply because they backed us up.

Wanna know something? As much as I've said here, there's at least twice as much I could reveal. But I won't. What's the point? The friendship is done, and digging after corpses just gets gruesome after a while. If I can sort through what's still running in my head and figure out what may be pertinent to stopping his 'charity' or 'professional' charade, then I'll post it proudly. If he starts in again with his insults, I'll take the first fecking salvo.

He did this to himself. Gail took the initiative a month ago because she needed to vent. At that point, it was a few posts, a few questions, nothing more. Ronee spoke up after she resigned. Then it was my turn.

Now look at it. Gail and I are still getting emails from creators. Despite the overwhelming evidence, he still treats it like a chess game. He's been advised many times, quite calmly and oftentimes politely, to just do what he should do -- what he's legally obligated to do -- and pay up. I've even pleaded with him as a former friend.

And he slaps us right back in the face.

I have no pity for him. He's lied, cheated, swindled, coerced, threatened. There's good people and good organizations who've fallen prey to his trail of sweetened words. He pushed us to this point.

And we're pushing back.

Does anyone think he's sitting back and regretting what he's said, what he's done? I mean, apart from the sting of repeated bitch-slaps from his 'attorney'; I mean real emotional angst over how many people he's hurt.

No, he's probably re-reading the autobiography of Lex Luthor and skimming through his copy of Dr Crippen's Smooth-Talking for Dummies.




Doc 'Pity De Foo' ' Absurd

[sk716]

Yikes.

Sk, I think you could save the world given enough bandwidth.

Gail

I don't know about saving it, but I could probably take over. :D

[TomStillwell]

I don't know about saving it, but I could probably take over. :D

She's got a killer unicorn and ferrets!!!

[Larry Dixon]

Speaking of the Things, Doc, I'm still waiting to hear from you about what they'd like in the way of toys.

Same goes for anyone else whose holidays were grinched by Olney/TLE's nonpayment. Misty & I have a fair collection of toys in storage since the 1990s, and we're happy to send stuff for your kids. Just email or PM me.

[Danny Donovan]

Wanna know something? As much as I've said here, there's at least twice as much I could reveal. But I won't. What's the point? The friendship is done, and digging after corpses just gets gruesome after a while. If I can sort through what's still running in my head and figure out what may be pertinent to stopping his 'charity' or 'professional' charade, then I'll post it proudly. If he starts in again with his insults, I'll take the first fecking salvo.

He did this to himself. Gail took the initiative a month ago because she needed to vent. At that point, it was a few posts, a few questions, nothing more. Ronee spoke up after she resigned. Then it was my turn.

Now look at it. Gail and I are still getting emails from creators. Despite the overwhelming evidence, he still treats it like a chess game. He's been advised many times, quite calmly and oftentimes politely, to just do what he should do -- what he's legally obligated to do -- and pay up. I've even pleaded with him as a former friend.

And he slaps us right back in the face.

I have no pity for him. He's lied, cheated, swindled, coerced, threatened. There's good people and good organizations who've fallen prey to his trail of sweetened words. He pushed us to this point.

And we're pushing back.

Does anyone think he's sitting back and regretting what he's said, what he's done? I mean, apart from the sting of repeated bitch-slaps from his 'attorney'; I mean real emotional angst over how many people he's hurt.

No, he's probably re-reading the autobiography of Lex Luthor and skimming through his copy of Dr Crippen's Smooth-Talking for Dummies.

Doc 'Pity De Foo' ' Absurd

Tim, I salute you!

I could almost hear the Battle Hymn Of The Republic for a minute there. For what it's worth, don't ever feel bad about sticking it out for as long as you did, I admit I've fogiven and forgotten a lot of stuff. But there comes a time (especially when he's hurt friends of mine, or people who I've worked with and admire) that you have to say NO MORE!

[JTPencils]

Speaking of the Things, Doc, I'm still waiting to hear from you about what they'd like in the way of toys.

Same goes for anyone else whose holidays were grinched by Olney/TLE's nonpayment. Misty & I have a fair collection of toys in storage since the 1990s, and we're happy to send stuff for your kids. Just email or PM me.

That's quite generous Larry, and most admirable. I myself don't have any little one's that got stiffed because of this... but I think it's wonderful of you to make the offer.

[Larry Dixon]

Compared to what Tom, Colleen, SK, Mark, and the YABSfolk are doing? It's a very small thing. It's just us chipping in, in our own small way. We're all in it together.

I know I have made several great new friends and, I believe, coworkers thanks to this very thread.

Personally, I'm in awe of the research, fact-checking and thoroughness of the legal & background folks here. Brilliant.

[colleen]

rural?

Colleen how far out are you? lol. I know you're local (I hail from Portsmouth) I thought you were up in Williamsburg these days, but I guess I thought closer to the newport news side. :)

I moved out of there years ago. Now I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains. On a mountain.


c

[Danny Donovan]

I moved out of there years ago. Now I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains. On a mountain.


c

Neat. ;) For about 3 years I lived on a mountain in NC, just outside of Pilot Mountain (or for those that watched Andy Griffith, "Mt. Pilot") and yes, it was Mt. Airy or "Mayberry" as the tv show called it.

Honestly, wasn't that bad, very peaceful. Well aside from those chirping bugs (not crickets! the one with the weird name I can never remember and when I do I always mispell.) in the summer. Although, I'm a lot happier back by the bay and in the "city" so to speak. Or at least the historical district.

[colleen]

Neat. ;) For about 3 years I lived on a mountain in NC, just outside of Pilot Mountain (or for those that watched Andy Griffith, "Mt. Pilot") and yes, it was Mt. Airy or "Mayberry" as the tv show called it.

Honestly, wasn't that bad, very peaceful. Well aside from those chirping bugs (not crickets! the one with the weird name I can never remember and when I do I always mispell.) in the summer. Although, I'm a lot happier back by the bay and in the "city" so to speak. Or at least the historical district.

Do you mean cicadas?

[Danny Donovan]

Do you mean cicadas?

Yes! Yes I do.

I swear to god those things will drive you nuts after awhile. Especially if you're in an area that has a pretty decent echo.

Always fun in those midnight dog walks, where it's pitch black because there's ONE STREETLIGHT and it's like 20 feet down the road, and you hear that sound coming from all sides....

[Sarah Beach]

Please! No cicadas! I left those behind in Houston! Eeee.

Anyway.... something came up this evening in the comic shop, that I feel I should mention here. It's about the Olney Effect rippling outward. And why I think it's important that we continue talking, and urging folks to come out into the sunshine.

A pal of mine at the shop, a fellow writer (he actually hangs out around here online, but I don't know if he'll step up, so I won't mention his name - the generalities are enough) has been working on an independant comic project. Another guy is the money for the project, and has been delaying payment in something of an Olneyesque fashion. The only thing left on the project is the cover, and the cover artist wasn't/isn't going to release the high res file of the art until his check clears (something that is finally expected to occur in a few days). My friend and I were comparing this to the Olney situation. All in generalities. And then he mentioned the name of the artist: ChrisCross. And I remembered that Ronee had pulled Chris out of a connection to Olney for ... oh, what else, non-payment.

When I told my friend this, he got the "Ooooh, that is why he was so ticked about the money."

The comic book business is a small arena. How many people has Olney left in his wake contaminated by a bitter distrust? Yes, it is good to be pragmatic and request at least half payment up front. But the bitterness? Hopefully the actions growing out of this thread will help counter that, and prove that for the most part, the people working in this field are serious, and honest. Let's hope we can keep it that way, putting scammers on notice that cheating behavior won't be tolerated, or walked away from.

[Upstart Crow]

I was just on the phone with a friend of mine about this who thankfully only lost time, and not money or anything else. This matter has been posted elsewhere and attracted the attention of her girlfriend, who was also affected by some of the lies.

I mentioned this thread and they'll be signing up and posting soon. I know JoSelle's been reading along sporadically. ;) *waves at Jo*.

*waves back* Hi, Danny. Hi, Board, and Hi, Blake (you know me from LJ, same handle as here). Argh. I tried to post this story earlier, but somehow I got logged out and the post was lost :mad:. It's late here, and I have work tomorrow, but I really wanted to comment, so here we go again.

I didn't discover this thread until shortly after the new year, when it was already in full swing. My girlfriend and I were amazed at the depth of Rick's lies and fraud, but we didn't join in because, well, we weren't burned nearly as badly as some of you, and didn't know if we had much to say. Danny persuaded me otherwise tonight.

I first met Rick in late October or November 2005 when he was looking for titles to publish. My girlfriend and I had been working on a comic-novel hybrid four book series since 2003 and were interested in shopping it around. Danny had some dealings with Rick in the past, was still owed money, but had an overall good impression of the man. As Rick's reason for not paying was presumably due to a personal hardship, I was sympathetic especially becuse I've gone through a lot of family tragedy in my life. I asked Danny to put us in touch with him, and soon enough the girlfriend, Rick and I were discussing releasing our series with Tightlip on a private forum hosted on his message board.

At first, all went well. Rick came across as a nice, considerate and even quite funny person at first, and we had some shared interests. But when Kim (my girlfriend, that is) and I began asking serious questions, things got ugly fast. He was unwilling (though now I suspect also unable) to answer basic questions like how he planned to advertise and sell the books, who he'd get to illustrate them (after much hemming and hahing he produced a few links to illustrators' sites). He also didn't even want to see a synopsis about our books to see if they'd be a good fit for his vision -- very odd, we thought. He really got angry when we suggested creating a live journal/myspace community for readers to discuss the book, saying that would undermine his own promotional efforts (?!?). At first, Kim and I were willing to shrug it off, thinking he was one of these older adults who was still a bit confused by blogging and blogging communities. But when he started in on being unable to discuss anything of substance with is in order to safe guard "trade secrets", we decided he wasn't being honest, and was likely too unstable to form a lasting partnership for our book. The final straw came when I found out he had been swearing at Danny and threatening to sue him in emails.

So, while our dealings with Rick only cost us time and aggravation, especially as I was emotionally and physically exhausted from a vile and mind-numbing temp job which was slowly giving me carpal tunnel syndrome at the time, we both know it could have been much worse. I think he was banking on the fact that we are both young writers, and inexperienced when compared to most of the people posting here (I'd been publishing for about five months at the time and Kim less than that). Thankfully, we are also cagey young writers :3.

Due also to the fact that things weren't as bad as they could have been, I don't wish Rick ill and I don't really have any resentment towards him. I am angry on the behalf, however, of all the people he's cheated and lied to, and I hope that the law suit(s?) is (are?) successful. I not only would like to see him held accountable, I also hope that he seeks help for what I strongly suspect is at least one mental illness. I don't say that facetiously, either. I come from a family with a long history of depression so I know firsthand how devastating mental illnesses can be, and how treatment can be a godsend.

I am sad, however, that our poor series is languishing incomplete at the moment. It's a really fun idea, and one that we've shelved for the moment thanks to my insane publishing and writing schedule for 2007. Oh well. I know someday it will be.

The weirdest thing, though? We told Rick about ten times that our series had several gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender characters, was polyamorous-friendly and had more profanity than the Howard Stern show. He didn't seem to get it. Considering some of the anti-gay things he's said in this forum and the fact that it was pretty obvious that Kim and I were girlfriends, I'm rather surprised he was even interested. Then again, some straight men who are otherwise anti-gay don't seem put off at all by lesbians or bisexual women, so maybe that part isn't so surprising afterall :rolleyes:.

It's nice to meet you all. I won't post and run, either. Now that I've come for the discussion, I think I'll stay for the punch and pie after.

- JoSelle *who prays she won't have to type this up a third time*

[Upstart Crow]

Hmm, judging that I am good friends with one person here and knew another from Livejournal, I would guess, Sarah, that the number of people he's mistreated is quite extensive. It's a small field, as you say, and the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon game is really more like three degrees here.

I can't say the experience left me all that bitter. I've had worse dealings with other publishers so far, including one whose checks to me bounced, and who was pretty crooked, though less so than Rick. But it's definitely made me more wary, I tell you what.

- Jo

*who wonders why her signature won't work*

[Danny Donovan]

It's nice to meet you all. I won't post and run, either. Now that I've come for the discussion, I think I'll stay for the punch and pie after.

- JoSelle *who prays she won't have to type this up a third time*

There's gonna be PIE? YAY!

It's about time we got some catering up here. You'd think with all of Sarah's hollywood connections we'd have a craft services booth somewhere here abouts.

I bet you she called but those darn union guys are taking their sweet time!

Don't worry Jo, the mean CBR board eats everyone's posts every now and then. methinks it's not fed enough.

but you made it! Welcome! I was talking to Kim earlier, while she played ChronoCross. I hope she makes it up, but knowing her persnickity computer the evil post snatcher that lurks might drive her nuts. (both of you guys, you might want to write your post in word first so if the page crashes it's just a matter of cut and paste.)

WOO! Oh and Jo! Sarah Beach is person you will want to speak with about the editorship at Unscrewed. feel free to PM her or e-mail, if you haven't hooked up by this evening I'll give you all the pertinant info.

Now I do believe since the LATE night sci fi is off for the night I should sleep. perchance to dream. Have a good day at work! ;)

[Cam63]

My respects to SK and Oz' for their work ( and anyone else I missed out on ) to archive the posts here that will help those who've been stiffed by the Reeked One.

I may give you a beer.

[AIPman1]

I think Gail, Mark, and Kurt should slip the warning into every one of the comics they write.

I personally am changing the title of my comic from The Honor Brigade to The Honor (speaking of which, Rick Olney wouldn't know honor if he passed it like a gall stone) Brigade.

Yenlo - first name of a supervillian with the power to make things self destruct.

[the4thpip]

She's got a killer unicorn and ferrets!!!

That's what I call a touch too much!

[Cam63]

That's what I call a touch too much!

I dunno...

I got a kitten and a 15 year old cat that may hold that title.

[KevinTBrown]

She's got a killer unicorn and ferrets!!!

Hmmm, no unicorns, but I do have 7 ferrets..... oh, and 2 cats. ;)




Anyway, on a more semi-serious note here:

While I've been making my comments, cracking my jokes, and trying to add to this thread, I'm not one who was ever taken in by Rick Olney. I can safely say that's it a damn good thing I wasn't, because they would be picking up pieces of Olney from around the Metro NY area had he done so. Twice in my life friends have taken advantage of my goodwill; and twice I literally had to get in their face to recoup my losses. I know what it feels like to be gyped, to lied to and to have a false friend stab you in the back while shaking your hand at the same time.

Rick Olney is a snakeoil salesman who has no oil to sell. Period.

So while I am not a victim of his ongoing crime, I am sympathetic to the cause. This is one long time comics fan (going on 40 years) that will step up and speak very loud about this. And I ever get the chance to meet any of you in person, especially those taken in by Olney's lies, I will gladly buy you a drink.

[Gail Simone]

After reading every post and link on this thread I have to say that I'm stunned at what a chittering fuck-monkey Rick Olney is. Sorry, I just have to.

Concise and to the point!


Gail

[Gail Simone]

*waves back* Hi, Danny. Hi, Board, and Hi, Blake (you know me from LJ, same handle as here). Argh. I tried to post this story earlier, but somehow I got logged out and the post was lost :mad:. It's late here, and I have work tomorrow, but I really wanted to comment, so here we go again.

I didn't discover this thread until shortly after the new year, when it was already in full swing. My girlfriend and I were amazed at the depth of Rick's lies and fraud, but we didn't join in because, well, we weren't burned nearly as badly as some of you, and didn't know if we had much to say. Danny persuaded me otherwise tonight.

I first met Rick in late October or November 2005 when he was looking for titles to publish. My girlfriend and I had been working on a comic-novel hybrid four book series since 2003 and were interested in shopping it around. Danny had some dealings with Rick in the past, was still owed money, but had an overall good impression of the man. As Rick's reason for not paying was presumably due to a personal hardship, I was sympathetic especially becuse I've gone through a lot of family tragedy in my life. I asked Danny to put us in touch with him, and soon enough the girlfriend, Rick and I were discussing releasing our series with Tightlip on a private forum hosted on his message board.

At first, all went well. Rick came across as a nice, considerate and even quite funny person at first, and we had some shared interests. But when Kim (my girlfriend, that is) and I began asking serious questions, things got ugly fast. He was unwilling (though now I suspect also unable) to answer basic questions like how he planned to advertise and sell the books, who he'd get to illustrate them (after much hemming and hahing he produced a few links to illustrators' sites). He also didn't even want to see a synopsis about our books to see if they'd be a good fit for his vision -- very odd, we thought. He really got angry when we suggested creating a live journal/myspace community for readers to discuss the book, saying that would undermine his own promotional efforts (?!?). At first, Kim and I were willing to shrug it off, thinking he was one of these older adults who was still a bit confused by blogging and blogging communities. But when he started in on being unable to discuss anything of substance with is in order to safe guard "trade secrets", we decided he wasn't being honest, and was likely too unstable to form a lasting partnership for our book. The final straw came when I found out he had been swearing at Danny and threatening to sue him in emails.

So, while our dealings with Rick only cost us time and aggravation, especially as I was emotionally and physically exhausted from a vile and mind-numbing temp job which was slowly giving me carpal tunnel syndrome at the time, we both know it could have been much worse. I think he was banking on the fact that we are both young writers, and inexperienced when compared to most of the people posting here (I'd been publishing for about five months at the time and Kim less than that). Thankfully, we are also cagey young writers :3.

Due also to the fact that things weren't as bad as they could have been, I don't wish Rick ill and I don't really have any resentment towards him. I am angry on the behalf, however, of all the people he's cheated and lied to, and I hope that the law suit(s?) is (are?) successful. I not only would like to see him held accountable, I also hope that he seeks help for what I strongly suspect is at least one mental illness. I don't say that facetiously, either. I come from a family with a long history of depression so I know firsthand how devastating mental illnesses can be, and how treatment can be a godsend.

I am sad, however, that our poor series is languishing incomplete at the moment. It's a really fun idea, and one that we've shelved for the moment thanks to my insane publishing and writing schedule for 2007. Oh well. I know someday it will be.

The weirdest thing, though? We told Rick about ten times that our series had several gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender characters, was polyamorous-friendly and had more profanity than the Howard Stern show. He didn't seem to get it. Considering some of the anti-gay things he's said in this forum and the fact that it was pretty obvious that Kim and I were girlfriends, I'm rather surprised he was even interested. Then again, some straight men who are otherwise anti-gay don't seem put off at all by lesbians or bisexual women, so maybe that part isn't so surprising afterall :rolleyes:.

It's nice to meet you all. I won't post and run, either. Now that I've come for the discussion, I think I'll stay for the punch and pie after.

- JoSelle *who prays she won't have to type this up a third time*

Thank you for posting, JoSelle. Interesting story.

I think three things are at work here...first, Rick's chronic need to feel like a big wheel in comics--when he 'approves' your book, for a moment, he's like the most important person in your world, and this is OH MY GOD what he feeds on.

Second, we've seen this over and over, that Rick behaves somewhat normally until you ask even the simplest questions regarding his seeming lack of any planning or backing or business experience whatsoever. Then, you're attacking the delusion and become one of the enemy, which for him means attempting to bully and threaten. Note that this doesn't work if you have any spine or sense at all.

Third, I suspect he knew already that some of his early projects were going to implode due to broken promises to creators. Having a back-up book ready to go might have saved some face. Sheer speculation on this last bit, but he wouldn't be the first publisher to go to plan b when the team for plan a took a hike.

As with Blake, I'm glad you were able to extricate yourself relatively painlessly...hope for good things for your book!

And welcome!

Gail

[Matt Algren]

I don't care what the CBR rules are, never have, never will, and Jonah is fine with this thread, encouraged it, in fact, and I know because I asked him.Jonah's okay with you being a bully? With you making posts that would get any other poster outside your mod-free zone perma-banned? Is that the question you asked him? Really?
Honestly, I don't ban people, but I don't particularly care if they stay or not if they're so wildly unhappy. "My way or the highway. Don't like it, fuck off." Got it. Interesting response.

And this isn't the first of WHAT we've seen?You acting like a bully. You doing things that would get me or anyone else banned. You making me embarrassed CBR.
Rick had his chance many times to have his say when people were BEGGING me to ban him.That has nothing to do with how you and we should treat him.
He eats this shit up, by the way, people saying, "Aww, poor Rick, being picked on by the mean huge line of people he's cheated." If he was still blogging, this would be up there, guaranteed.You know, that's what makes it so unfortunate. You’ve given him an out.

I’ve never said "Aww, poor Rick." I’ve said that he’s a lying thief, that the truth should out, and that he should face the consequences for the all shit he’s done. I’ve said that we’d be better advised to treat Rick with at least a veneer of rationality. I’ve said that you and we should not be acting like orcafresh. I’ve said that you and we all agreed to as much when we joined up here. It’s odd to me that you don’t see that.

[Dreadstar]

...My compassion for humanity and the tree hugging hippe in me can only go so far.


Liberal thought dies a violent death in the usual manner.




...that's a joke, in case someone gets all stick-up-the-ass.

[the4thpip]

As the first two posts on this page were rather ugly and dumb, I felt it was time for another French rugby player sans clothes.

http://www.ilcannocchiale.it/blogs/bloggerarchimg/yadoge/DIEUX%20DU%20STADE3.jpg

[Matt Doc Martin]

Jonah's okay with you being a bully? With you making posts that would get any other poster outside your mod-free zone perma-banned? Is that the question you asked him? Really?

Whoa, whoa, whoa...


How is SHE being a bully? Did she physically threaten Rick? Like he has to myself, and others, for years on end?

Has she been threatening pointless and baseless lawsuits? Like he has to myself, and others, for years on end?


Has she been threatening to have him arrested, again with no actual legal precedent? Like he has to myself, and others, for years on end?


"My way or the highway. Don't like it, fuck off." Got it. Interesting response.
No, but this thread is what it is. Made the worse by Rick and his actions. There are plenty of other threads...

[Showman]

I've piped up a couple of times and I've been trying to keep up with this mega-thread, but I continue to be astounded by the sheer number of people he has managed to scam,swindle, and cheat over the past few years.

I feel genuinely lucky that all I lost to him was a few hours of work and not weeks worth.

To all of you who have been working feverishly to gather the intel and info on his business dealings and status, I commend you. The more solid information put forth the better.

I'm especially interested to hear back from St. Judes and any further from the Salvation Army.

Great work everyone in exposing the ugly truth.

[the4thpip]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...


How is SHE being a bully?

Hadn't you heard?
People fighting back and people fighting crooks are the new bullies. Americans need to watch what they say. And pink is the new black.

[EdContradictory]

You acting like a bully.
No, she wasn't. None of the links you previously provided showed anything of the sort.

She, and others, were taking on a bully. And it looks like they're winning.

Good for them.

Using wit and cutting remarks to counter-attack someone else's attack is not being a bully.

[khuxford]

I moved out of there years ago. Now I live in the Blue Ridge Mountains. On a mountain.


c

Yeah...much to the chagrin of my local comic shop (in Newport News) that only opened a year ago. The place is called MACGUFFIN: A GRAPHIC NOVEL SHOP (http://www.macguffincomics.com) and is set up to appeal more to your audience than the spandex crowd (which is to say it doesn't carry MAGIC, HeroClix, and action figures, but has an art house/jazzy coffee shop feel to it, instead.

Anyway...Sam always laments that the area lost a resident that he felt would have been perfect for him to host for a signing or something.

[Matt Doc Martin]

. And pink is the new black.

Not on MY watch, Mister.

[the4thpip]

Not on MY watch, Mister.

It is so on MY watch!

http://site.evesaddiction.com/450/fw10051.jpg

[Ronée]

The only thing left on the project is the cover, and the cover artist wasn't/isn't going to release the high res file of the art until his check clears (something that is finally expected to occur in a few days). My friend and I were comparing this to the Olney situation. All in generalities. And then he mentioned the name of the artist: ChrisCross. And I remembered that Ronee had pulled Chris out of a connection to Olney for ... oh, what else, non-payment.

When I told my friend this, he got the "Ooooh, that is why he was so ticked about the money."

The comic book business is a small arena. How many people has Olney left in his wake contaminated by a bitter distrust? Yes, it is good to be pragmatic and request at least half payment up front. But the bitterness? Hopefully the actions growing out of this thread will help counter that, and prove that for the most part, the people working in this field are serious, and honest. Let's hope we can keep it that way, putting scammers on notice that cheating behavior won't be tolerated, or walked away from.Luckily, Cross never got to the work stage with Olney, just contracted to do the work and set an amount per project. I know that it tied Chris up a bit cause he set time aside in order to do the work and olney kept leading him on. I'll have to mention this to him and see what he says about it all.

[Sarah Beach]

Jonah's okay with you being a bully? With you making posts that would get any other poster outside your mod-free zone perma-banned? Is that the question you asked him? Really?
"My way or the highway. Don't like it, fuck off." Got it. Interesting response.

Gail's acting like a bully? She's not pounding on some weaker victim, just for the sake of picking on someone. She's pissed off at someone who is a bully, and needs to be resisted and confronted at long last.

As for "My way or the highway"... please note that "Gail's way" is a pretty broad option. She's not kicking people out for disagreeing with her (even you). You're quite welcome to post in the tone of your choice (which at this moment seems to be, well, highly critical of her choices). But if this doesn't make you comfortable or happy or engaged or interested, I have to ask: why are you here? (Sorry, but given all the message boards I've been on, I end up at that point when people get upset about the content of a board or thread. It's a legit question.)

You acting like a bully. You doing things that would get me or anyone else banned. You making me embarrassed CBR.
That has nothing to do with how you and we should treat him.
You know, that's what makes it so unfortunate. You’ve given him an out.

I'm still new to CBR. I moderate elsewhere. I've been on several different message boards. The culture of each forum really is unique to that forum. If CBR has always let Gail's forum run her way, then the current situation is a consequence of that - and I think TPTB of CBR know that.

But "given him an out"? No. I don't think so. At most, RO can point at this thread and say of Gail, "She is personally pissed off at me, so she opened this thread, and let people talk about me." And usually "talk about me" would mean, trash talk without basis in the subject's character and actions, and that would indeed be indefensible. But that is NOT what Gail has done: she said "If you've had a run in with him, come talk about it, let us know." The truly unfortunate thing about this thread is not the intense emotions being vented, but the fact that what is being said about the man (outside of the mockery he so richly deserves) is that it is all true.

I’ve never said "Aww, poor Rick." I’ve said that he’s a lying thief, that the truth should out, and that he should face the consequences for the all shit he’s done. I’ve said that we’d be better advised to treat Rick with at least a veneer of rationality. I’ve said that you and we should not be acting like orcafresh. I’ve said that you and we all agreed to as much when we joined up here. It’s odd to me that you don’t see that.

Trust me: as one who recently did "treat Rick with at least a veneer of rationality".... it means nothing to him. And ends up making that person yet another target of his attempts at insults. The only reason I came through with less to vent about is that (1) I'm way smarter than he is, and (2) my only "investment" in the situation in friendship with some that he has stiffed/injured.

If you're concerned about general "public image".... I don't think anyone getting into this thread is going to make the assumption that any of the posters would take this tone with just anyone. Frankly, I've never seen such a focused venting ... where it is clear in the way that most are interacting with each other, that they are witty, smart, engaging folks, who like meeting new posters. Are they opinionated? Sure. Would their first response to an objectional intruder be "pile on, insult, and bully"? I don't think so. They might use their wits against such (and the wits are pretty sharp around here). They ... we (I'm new, but I identify with them) are, yes, possibly earning a reputation of "Don't mess with them" - but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Anyway... the gist of it is that although I can see your concern about what's happening in this thread, I think you are overly concerned, because there is no evidence that any of the posters are taking this behavior anywhere else, not even into the rest of Gail's threads. That would certainly be evidence of something very wrong, but it's not there (other than some running side references to a certain person).

[khuxford]

I think that every interaction with Rick has been rational, as far as the board posters' side of the interactions. Rational questions are asked. Irrational answers are given. The irrationality is then made fun of, but that doesn't make the responses irrational.

[Gail Simone]

Jonah's okay with you being a bully? With you making posts that would get any other poster outside your mod-free zone perma-banned? Is that the question you asked him? Really?
"My way or the highway. Don't like it, fuck off." Got it. Interesting response.

You acting like a bully. You doing things that would get me or anyone else banned. You making me embarrassed CBR.
That has nothing to do with how you and we should treat him.
You know, that's what makes it so unfortunate. You’ve given him an out.

I’ve never said "Aww, poor Rick." I’ve said that he’s a lying thief, that the truth should out, and that he should face the consequences for the all shit he’s done. I’ve said that we’d be better advised to treat Rick with at least a veneer of rationality. I’ve said that you and we should not be acting like orcafresh. I’ve said that you and we all agreed to as much when we joined up here. It’s odd to me that you don’t see that.


I couldn't even finish this.

If I were acting like a bully, like most of the mods here and elsewhere, I'd delete your post and ban you and all that chickenshit stuff that I hate about the net. This isn't the community board or whatever. Everyone here is allowed to say what they like, even if it's about what an awful mean bully I am.

I don't have a clue who you are, your opinion doesn't bother me--in fact, what I HAVE read seems like goofy navel-gazery. To me, it's not at all important that we disagree. You're welcome to continue posting or not, it's simply not that big a deal. I disagree with many people all the time whom I otherwise respect.

No, I didn't ask Jonah in your loaded and silly manner, but I spoke with him at some length and he knows full well what this thread is, how the rules of this board are different, and how I am as a mod (which is to say, not really much of one at all). And yes, he's fine with it. Encouraged it, and your implication otherwise just shows you don't really know Jonah at all.

Honestly, as I tried to say a bit more nicely previously, you're welcome to stay and be unhappy, or you're welcome to find the nearest exit and bitch about how mean I am someplace else. It doesn't change anything, not even slightly. The rules of this board have always been clear and they're not changing for someone's delicate sensibilities about this particular thread.

Gail

[rummblestrips]

Gail isn't acting like a Bully. She just get's real pissed and passionate when people she respects get taken advantage of by rip-off artists. Her words may be harsh, but considering who they're being spoken to, they'll well deserved.
I don't often swear or yell if someone's bugging me, but if someone's bugging a friend, it's a whole new ball game. I think Gail's probably the same way.

[IvanJim]

I don't know Matt Algren from Adam, and he may be well intentioned in his criticism, but mischaracterising Gail's response as "My way or the highway. Don't like it, fuck off" seems calculated to incite a negative response.

Although I'm finding the vast bulk of everyone's response to this thread to be pitch perfect I fully support it if someone wants to take issue with someone else's tone. Never the less it's my opinion that creating a false tone for somebody else and mischaracterising their words and intent is far more offensive than mocking the depravations of a con-men and thief.

[AIPman1]

The ONLY part of this thread that has bothered me over the course of things is the name-calling. Now, I UNDERSTAND the anger and have called Rick Olney most of the names myself in conversation with people in private (with the exception of my favorite name called in this thread "Fucknuckle" - Never used it before, lol)...but in looking at this thread from a Judges point of view, each name-calling post undermines any proactive, expose the truth posts near it. I would think that the positive outweighs the negative in the use of this thread to prove patterns and lies, and attacks...but it would be MUCH more SOLID, if the people with a true, vested interest in lawsuits against Olney, had less swearing in this thread.

I've only seen ONE bully in this thread, and it certainally is not Gail.

Anyway, that's my view of it. I want to see Olney rendered unable to do "what he does" to anyone else, ever. I have BEEN swearing out loud angry with the guy many times. I can't BLAME anyone here for doing it. But still, it is the one thing here that has bothered me. Having gone PAST the anger, it's good to think the light at the end of this tunnel is NOT a train driven by Olney...but rather a court room where the truth will out. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.



Seriously...it couldn't!


cause...well...they'd be nicer...


anyway....

[Mike Cross]

Hi Gail, just wanted to say, both on this board and in your comic work..

Keep up the great work. I'm only a few pages into this massive thread, but it's a fun read from an outsider looking in. Probably not so much fun for someone that may have been mistreated, but we'll see what happens.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I was just on the phone with a friend of mine about this who thankfully only lost time, and not money or anything else. This matter has been posted elsewhere and attracted the attention of her girlfriend, who was also affected by some of the lies.

I mentioned this thread and they'll be signing up and posting soon. I know JoSelle's been reading along sporadically. ;) *waves at Jo* but yeah, there are a few people I know that have just caught wind of it, and will be contacting you either via e-mail or signing up for the forums.

Gail and others have commented on this already, but I'd like to say that, like them, I find it astonishing to see that people keep coming forward with tales of being Olneyed, yet nobody is stepping forward with any positives. It appears this guy has no support whatsoever, which is itself astonishing. Hell, even Charles Manson has faithful followers and defenders and apologists and fans.

[Scott Shaw!]

If Gail's a bully, then I'm a ballet dancer.

Rick Olney deserves every insult he's received. This bottom-feeder has scammed creators out of properties and money for years, all in the name of "loving comics". He's a PREDATOR, and an arrogantly remorseless one at that. He's threatened people here and insulted their sex, bodies and families. I'm convinced that he has severe mental problems ("problems" seems so minor compared to this guy's delusions) but there's an overwhelmingly repugnant aspect to Rick Olney's intentional fucking with people's minds and lives.

I think that if he ever attended a major comic convention without concealing his identity, Rick Onley could make enough money (over $100,000.00!) to pay all the good folks he's ripped off by operating a "Punch Rick Olney In The Face For Only One Dollar" booth.

Therefore, as a longtime creator who hasn't been ripped off by Rick Olney but am outraged that he's gotten away with it for so long, I think that we have every right to say whatever we want about this creep.

On another subject, I'd prefer to see all the "cute" talk about donuts, kittens and other thread-drift evaporate; it may all be fun for the participants, but it's empty calories for everyone else. Please let the thread pare itself down to new revelations about Olney, his victims, scams and legal developments against him. And I wouldn't rule out our angry screeds, either.

But Gail's right; if you (or I) don't enjoy reading this thread, don't read it.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Spackling Compound]

On another subject, I'd prefer to see all the "cute" talk about donuts, kittens and other thread-drift evaporate; it may all be fun for the participants, but it's empty calories for everyone else. Please let the thread pare itself down to new revelations about Olney, his victims, scams and legal developments against him. And I wouldn't rule out our angry screeds, either.



Scott!

I mentioned earlier that I would rather see Olney respond to at least one question Gail asked him. The one about her spouse's flight ticket was never answered, at last glance.
However, I also mentioned that I wish we could keep from the kittens, pirates and other "cute" things that make it like some distracted Fox cartoon character was posting rather than some people who actually had something to say.
After a few trite "monkey..haha" or "lesbians...haha" drifts, I couldn't even keep focused, let alone Olney who seemed to rather chase any drift he could.

[Danny Donovan]

Gail and others have commented on this already, but I'd like to say that, like them, I find it astonishing to see that people keep coming forward with tales of being Olneyed, yet nobody is stepping forward with any positives. It appears this guy has no support whatsoever, which is itself astonishing. Hell, even Charles Manson has faithful followers and defenders and apologists and fans.

Well yeah, but then again ol' Charlie wrapped himself in an obscure Beatles Lyric. perhaps if Rick had a Yellow Submarine avatar he might spawn some kind of response. :-p

But honestly, this kind of thread isn't going to bother Rick. As Gail said, he gets off on this kind of attention. He's told me many times in the past (and written about it in his blogs) how he has the tendency to google himself to see what people are saying about him.

So I don't think Gail's being a bully. I've been called one before by Rick, for far less so I think it just a matter of opinion.

[colleen]

The poster is taking more note of the reaction than the provocation.

Perhaps that is due to the fact that almost all of Olney's revolting posts have been removed. Be that as it may, the sum of his posts qualify as fighting words, and his behavior and performance not only begged for a fight, he demanded one.

Repeatedly.

Explicity.

And he got one.

He's got no one to blame but himself.

[LomiMonet]

Speaking as one who has had his love for comics utterly destroyed by similar weasels, I think it's refreshing to see people come together and stand up and give as good as they get.

Acting out of self defense, and then taking the fight to an aggressor is hardly being a bully.

In fact I'm quite impressed how in the beginning everyone was willing to just let it go and move on. Rick opened the can of whoop-ass and served himself a heap full. As an adult he must be prepared to suffer the consequences of his actions.

Just my opinion.

[Ronée]

I just want to give Gail credit for taking the criticisms people post here and the bullshit that gets spewed and often times directed at her with grace. Other forum owners or mods would simply ban the unwanted ones and move on but Gail likes to face them head on, I respect that.

I am also a firm believer in "if you don't like it... don't READ it" philosophy. No one is forcing anyone to read or comment on this thread. Although expressing your opinion is encouraged, you know the old saying. Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of them stink.

[Papergirl]

On another subject, I'd prefer to see all the "cute" talk about donuts, kittens and other thread-drift evaporate; it may all be fun for the participants, but it's empty calories for everyone else. Please let the thread pare itself down to new revelations about Olney, his victims, scams and legal developments against him. And I wouldn't rule out our angry screeds, either.

However, I also mentioned that I wish we could keep from the kittens, pirates and other "cute" things that make it like some distracted Fox cartoon character was posting rather than some people who actually had something to say.
After a few trite "monkey..haha" or "lesbians...haha" drifts, I couldn't even keep focused, let alone Olney who seemed to rather chase any drift he could.

Ah, feck it. If people feel the urge to thread drift, they can do so HERE (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=159300), as there never really was a point to the that thread, other than to give Lester a hard time. As that thread's creator, I am 100% positive about that.

There. Problem solved. Now, as I said to Morts, quit bitching about the drift and adding even MORE to it.

~Bev

[colleen]

The fighting words doctrine.

http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13718

[MacQuarrie]

No, I didn't ask Jonah in your loaded and silly manner, but I spoke with him at some length and he knows full well what this thread is, how the rules of this board are different, and how I am as a mod (which is to say, not really much of one at all). And yes, he's fine with it. Encouraged it, and your implication otherwise just shows you don't really know Jonah at all.
I can't speak for Jonah, but I do know the guy, and I can assure you that this is true. Jonah hates assholes, and especially mealy-mouthed weasels. His approval of this thread is in essence identical to what Mark Waid said when he offered to foot the legal bills: "Go get him."

Olney is a scumbag. Whatever it takes to shut him down and put him well and truly out of business is A-OK, even if it occasionally turns to describing him in vulgar and obscene terms. His behavior is vulgar and obscene, and it's only fitting that it be described in those terms.

Go get him.

[Blake Petit]

*waves back* Hi, Danny. Hi, Board, and Hi, Blake (you know me from LJ, same handle as here). Argh. I tried to post this story earlier, but somehow I got logged out and the post was lost :mad:. It's late here, and I have work tomorrow, but I really wanted to comment, so here we go again.

I didn't discover this thread until shortly after the new year, when it was already in full swing. My girlfriend and I were amazed at the depth of Rick's lies and fraud, but we didn't join in because, well, we weren't burned nearly as badly as some of you, and didn't know if we had much to say. Danny persuaded me otherwise tonight.

I first met Rick in late October or November 2005 when he was looking for titles to publish. My girlfriend and I had been working on a comic-novel hybrid four book series since 2003 and were interested in shopping it around. Danny had some dealings with Rick in the past, was still owed money, but had an overall good impression of the man. As Rick's reason for not paying was presumably due to a personal hardship, I was sympathetic especially becuse I've gone through a lot of family tragedy in my life. I asked Danny to put us in touch with him, and soon enough the girlfriend, Rick and I were discussing releasing our series with Tightlip on a private forum hosted on his message board.

At first, all went well. Rick came across as a nice, considerate and even quite funny person at first, and we had some shared interests. But when Kim (my girlfriend, that is) and I began asking serious questions, things got ugly fast. He was unwilling (though now I suspect also unable) to answer basic questions like how he planned to advertise and sell the books, who he'd get to illustrate them (after much hemming and hahing he produced a few links to illustrators' sites). He also didn't even want to see a synopsis about our books to see if they'd be a good fit for his vision -- very odd, we thought. He really got angry when we suggested creating a live journal/myspace community for readers to discuss the book, saying that would undermine his own promotional efforts (?!?). At first, Kim and I were willing to shrug it off, thinking he was one of these older adults who was still a bit confused by blogging and blogging communities. But when he started in on being unable to discuss anything of substance with is in order to safe guard "trade secrets", we decided he wasn't being honest, and was likely too unstable to form a lasting partnership for our book. The final straw came when I found out he had been swearing at Danny and threatening to sue him in emails.

So, while our dealings with Rick only cost us time and aggravation, especially as I was emotionally and physically exhausted from a vile and mind-numbing temp job which was slowly giving me carpal tunnel syndrome at the time, we both know it could have been much worse. I think he was banking on the fact that we are both young writers, and inexperienced when compared to most of the people posting here (I'd been publishing for about five months at the time and Kim less than that). Thankfully, we are also cagey young writers :3.

Due also to the fact that things weren't as bad as they could have been, I don't wish Rick ill and I don't really have any resentment towards him. I am angry on the behalf, however, of all the people he's cheated and lied to, and I hope that the law suit(s?) is (are?) successful. I not only would like to see him held accountable, I also hope that he seeks help for what I strongly suspect is at least one mental illness. I don't say that facetiously, either. I come from a family with a long history of depression so I know firsthand how devastating mental illnesses can be, and how treatment can be a godsend.

I am sad, however, that our poor series is languishing incomplete at the moment. It's a really fun idea, and one that we've shelved for the moment thanks to my insane publishing and writing schedule for 2007. Oh well. I know someday it will be.

The weirdest thing, though? We told Rick about ten times that our series had several gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender characters, was polyamorous-friendly and had more profanity than the Howard Stern show. He didn't seem to get it. Considering some of the anti-gay things he's said in this forum and the fact that it was pretty obvious that Kim and I were girlfriends, I'm rather surprised he was even interested. Then again, some straight men who are otherwise anti-gay don't seem put off at all by lesbians or bisexual women, so maybe that part isn't so surprising afterall :rolleyes:.

It's nice to meet you all. I won't post and run, either. Now that I've come for the discussion, I think I'll stay for the punch and pie after.

- JoSelle *who prays she won't have to type this up a third time*
Wow -- hey, JoSelle. I had no idea you'd had dealings with our suddenly evaporated "colleague." Small world, ain't it?

Glad you managed to keep yourself clean and clear. Have you had any luck getting your series published yet?

[TomStillwell]

You know, the more I learn about how TLE operated, the more I'm convinced that not only was Olney a bumbling business man but one that purposely set out to use deception when dealing with the people he hired.

I believe from the very start he never intended to pay anyone upfront as he promised. I think he incorrectly banked upon the book making him a huge profit, believing he could stall the creators until then to make a pay off.

I think he did this because otherwise no one would have accepted his offers with pay on the back end.

He didn't considered that the creators would never allow TOTS #1 to go to print without being paid.

He also overestimated TOTS #1 potential sales being able to cover what he promised to pay to the creators. Even good sales would have seen the entire project in the red.

I'm astounded by not just his lack of ethics but his amazingly bad business skills.

[MacQuarrie]

Gail isn't acting like a Bully. She just get's real pissed and passionate when people she respects get taken advantage of by rip-off artists. Her words may be harsh, but considering who they're being spoken to, they'll well deserved.
I don't often swear or yell if someone's bugging me, but if someone's bugging a friend, it's a whole new ball game. I think Gail's probably the same way.

*DING!*

That's it exactly.

I taught my children that there are only a couple of acceptable reasons for getting into a fistfight:

1. Self-defense. If there's no way to walk out without fighting, then fight.
2. If you're sticking up for somebody who can't defend him/herself, then fight.

If you're forced into a fight, remember, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A FAIR FIGHT. Do whatever it takes to stop the other guy as quickly as possible. If that means picking up a chair or fighting dirty, fight dirty. Put him down hard and fast.

Olney asked for this. He went after our friends.

[Sarah Beach]

Luckily, Cross never got to the work stage with Olney, just contracted to do the work and set an amount per project. I know that it tied Chris up a bit cause he set time aside in order to do the work and olney kept leading him on. I'll have to mention this to him and see what he says about it all.

Ronee, I just want to assure you that my friend had nothing but good things to say of Chris! He was himself kind of ticked off with the money-man's ploys and understood the attitude of pressing for payment. It was just the added insight of there having been even a "brush" with Olney in the situation.

[Ronée]

Ronee, I just want to assure you that my friend had nothing but good things to say of Chris! He was himself kind of ticked off with the money-man's ploys and understood the attitude of pressing for payment. It was just the added insight of there having been even a "brush" with Olney in the situation.Yeah, Chris is good people that is for sure. I am glad I got him out before any work was done, the man has been through enough this year. And no, I was not inferring from your post that there had been any bad feelings on your friends part. But when Cross is mentioned I have to speak up ;)

[Danny Donovan]

Yeah, Chris is good people that is for sure. I am glad I got him out before any work was done, the man has been through enough this year. And no, I was not inferring from your post that there had been any bad feelings on your friends part. But when Cross is mentioned I have to speak up ;)

As I told Sarah in a PM, ChrisCross is one of those people in this industry I truly admire, not just for his awesome art, but for his being good people as you put it. ;)

In a business where waters oftentime get muddied by less than honest and forthright people it's always a pleasure to come across someone genuine who doesn't coast on talent at the cost of their personality.

[wishlish]

When I had called the clerk's office about Olney, I learned that he had been sued for over $400 by Greg Van Camp of Comix Zone. A little Googling turned up what that business is: a comics store in Syracuse. The link's here: http://www.comixzone.com/

I'm guessing this is the comics store that Rick owes money to, Gail? Or is there (gulp) more than one?

[wishlish]

Yeah, Chris is good people that is for sure. I am glad I got him out before any work was done, the man has been through enough this year. And no, I was not inferring from your post that there had been any bad feelings on your friends part. But when Cross is mentioned I have to speak up ;)

I first fell in love with Chris's art back in his Milestone days. His work on Captain Marvel was fantastic. He's a great comics artist.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Gail is a harpy picking the dead flesh from the bones of poor ol' Olney. It is so sad I have written a song about it. It goes like this:

Only The Olney (with apologies to Roy Orbison)

Only the Olney (dum-dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)
Knows the way to fight (ooh-yay-yay-yay-yeah)
Only the Olney (dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)
Knows he is always right! (dum-dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)

There goes his money
There goes his behind
Theyre gone forever
Gail blew his mind

But only the Olney
Knows why
he cry
Only the Olney

Ah....my HERO!

Ya know I really resent the fact that Gail and so many others of her champion like ilk have made it nigh impossible for me to be cheated by Olney in the future. Spoilsports.

[Danny Donovan]

When I had called the clerk's office about Olney, I learned that he had been sued for over $400 by Greg Van Camp of Comix Zone. A little Googling turned up what that business is: a comics store in Syracuse. The link's here: http://www.comixzone.com/

I'm guessing this is the comics store that Rick owes money to, Gail? Or is there (gulp) more than one?

There's more than one. Although I do know at least one was paid. There was a comic retailer that bought space at one of the failed conventions and did not get his table monies promptly returned, which led to a bit of a broughaha and it took quite some time before the fellow actually did get his money.

[Ronée]

As I told Sarah in a PM, ChrisCross is one of those people in this industry I truly admire, not just for his awesome art, but for his being good people as you put it. ;)

In a business where waters oftentime get muddied by less than honest and forthright people it's always a pleasure to come across someone genuine who doesn't coast on talent at the cost of their personality.The whole reason I wanted to represent him was that he is REAL. Of course he is talented, good lord his stuff is amazing.. but it is the 6 foot 9 man BEHIND the talent that gets you. (now why he chose a 5 foot 7 latina to represent him is beyond me... but hey I'm not complaining)

I first fell in love with Chris's art back in his Milestone days. His work on Captain Marvel was fantastic. He's a great comics artist. that he is... :D

[howyadoin]

This isn't the community board or whatever. Everyone here is allowed to say what they like...Yikes, that was pretty cold. All these years I've been posting on the Comm and didn't even know I was being repressed.

[Danny Donovan]

The whole reason I wanted to represent him was that he is REAL. Of course he is talented, good lord his stuff is amazing.. but it is the 6 foot 9 man BEHIND the talent that gets you. (now why he chose a 5 foot 7 latina to represent him is beyond me... but hey I'm not complaining)

that he is... :D


lol in my experiance, I'd be more afraid of a 5'7 latina. :-p you can't hide from them. :-p

[khuxford]

I first fell in love with Chris's art back in his Milestone days. His work on Captain Marvel was fantastic. He's a great comics artist.

Agreed. He was one of the first autographs I got on a comic book. It was at a comic shop in the Menlo Park Mall in NJ, when several creators were there for Milestone.

[Gail Simone]

The poster is taking more note of the reaction than the provocation.

Perhaps that is due to the fact that almost all of Olney's revolting posts have been removed. Be that as it may, the sum of his posts qualify as fighting words, and his behavior and performance not only begged for a fight, he demanded one.

Repeatedly.

Explicity.

And he got one.

He's got no one to blame but himself.


If you don't have someone already throwing rose petals at your feet, I'll happily apply for the gig.

This 'man' has been saying downright grotesque things about some of the best people, some of the closest friends I've ever had. I say again, I kept my own crappy, miserable experience with Rick private until he went after people like Chuck Dixon and Val Staples, and that was too, too much. Since then, he's intensified his attacks against even more people, not just creators but also posters who found his behavior despicable. And make no mistake, he is still threatening and planning to cheat people who did nothing but work for him in good faith.

The stuff he says about me? Who cares. Honestly. To work in this industry means someone says something awful about you every day. Being called names by someone like RICK is honestly to be expected, and this thread would not exist if that were all there was to it.

But this guy cheated, lied to, and abused many, many people, and then cackled like an idiot about not paying them while insulting them and decrying, hilariously, their professionalism.

You're wrong if you think this thread is causing Rick joy. That may have been the case back when he foolishly thought he could control the debate. No longer, I'm told, and his run-rabbit-run behavior proves that quite neatly.

As for bunnies and kittens, well...honestly, I'm not worked up about it. As I said, a bunch of new friends have been made, some old ones reaquainted, and if the grizzled veterans of Rick's weirdnesses sometimes wander off the point a bit, I think that's far from a felony. There are other sites where the meat of the issue is presented fat-free, including the wonderful UNSCREWED, and this IS a message thread, not a legal brief. This is very much the wrong board to have posts deleted for something so inoffensive as trying to provide a little levity, as I simply don't wish to provide that kind of moderation (and, frankly, I've found some of the stuff darn funny).

About name-calling...I admit that some of that, from me, is just from the sheer amazement at the GALL of a man who cheats everyone he knows daring to call others on their lack of professionalism. Dares to call women he's treated badly "dumb asses" and "sick bitches" and "douche bags." Dares to imply people like Kurt and Mark are holding him back. Dares to laugh about suing people instead of paying them. But when I call him, say, a "toothless yap dog," I would hope people get that I'm not saying he's literally toothless or canine, but in fact saying, "This guy is shooting blanks, guys."

Finally, I like that some people are having fun here. It is certainly possible to condemn Rick's behavior, get the word out, AND have a bit of a laff at the same time, and to be honest, I prefer it. I think it shows that even for the most egregiously abused, life goes on just fine, and the community not only supports them, but embraces them. Also, kitties.

That's really it. If people want to eat at each other a little bit in Rick's absence, it's understandable, but I think also a little pointless. Anyone genuniely offended, what can I say? I disagree heartily.

Gail

[TCJohnson]

Yikes, that was pretty cold. All these years I've been posting on the Comm and didn't even know I was being repressed.

Aw be fair.

There are rules of the comm board and if you don't follow them properly you will be banned. iwarrior was banned for what he said on the comm board.

Nobody has been banned for what they have said on this board.

[Gail Simone]

You know, the more I learn about how TLE operated, the more I'm convinced that not only was Olney a bumbling business man but one that purposely set out to use deception when dealing with the people he hired.

I believe from the very start he never intended to pay anyone upfront as he promised. I think he incorrectly banked upon the book making him a huge profit, believing he could stall the creators until then to make a pay off.

I think he did this because otherwise no one would have accepted his offers with pay on the back end.

He didn't considered that the creators would never allow TOTS #1 to go to print without being paid.

He also overestimated TOTS #1 potential sales being able to cover what he promised to pay to the creators. Even good sales would have seen the entire project in the red.

I'm astounded by not just his lack of ethics but his amazingly bad business skills.



Yep, and no small thanks to your amazing efforts, I agree.

I absolutely believed he was merely a well-intentioned weirdo with incredibly bad planning skills and follow through, until when I said that people had complained about some of the Mighty Mini Con bloopers and he instantly went into this bizarre conspiracy mode. People he'd been talking nicely about mere minutes before suddenly had all these character defects and evil intentions, according to Rick.

It was Creepout City.

But looking at some of the agreements he made with creators, I think it's even more sinister, and his ridiculous belief that people are actually CLAMORING for comics written by complete unknown and devoted-weirdoes with no experience or talent speaks for itself.

Gail

[TomStillwell]

About name-calling...I admit that some of that, from me, is just from the sheer amazed GALL of a man who cheats everyone he knows daring to call others on their lack of professionalism. Dares to call women he's treated badly "dumb asses" and "sick bitches" and "douche bags." Dares to imply people like Kurt and Mark are holding him back. Dares to laugh about suing people instead of paying them. But when I call him, say, a "toothless yap dog," I would hope people get that I'm not saying he's literally toothless or canine, but in fact saying, "This guy is shooting blanks, guys."

See, I knew Gail wasn't calling Olney an actual dog. She's an animal lover and would never tolerate such cruelty.

[Gail Simone]

Yeah, Chris is good people that is for sure. I am glad I got him out before any work was done, the man has been through enough this year. And no, I was not inferring from your post that there had been any bad feelings on your friends part. But when Cross is mentioned I have to speak up ;)

Not to mention he's so hugely talented. I love that guy's work!

Gail

[DrewEdwards]

Dares to imply people like Kurt and Mark are holding him back.

Wasn't his thoughts on this that "old guard" guys like Waid and Kurt were holding back new talent like him? (I could be wrong.)

Hrm. Isn't Olney in his 50's? It's not like he's a young,starving artist-type. I'm sure he's had plenty of chances to make something of himself. Maybe the part of the reason for his behavior is that he's seen his chance come and go. So he's grown a tad bitter?

That's not an excuse mind you. I just tend look for this type of thing.

At any rate it's a silly attitude to maintain. Any pop/self-help guru will tell that being bitter towards successful people can hold you back in your own ventures. Beyond that, it's just common sense. If he was a young man, one could excuse that world view more. But it's somewhat loathsome in a middle aged person.

(Just rambling, pay no attention.)

[Gail Simone]

When I had called the clerk's office about Olney, I learned that he had been sued for over $400 by Greg Van Camp of Comix Zone. A little Googling turned up what that business is: a comics store in Syracuse. The link's here: http://www.comixzone.com/

I'm guessing this is the comics store that Rick owes money to, Gail? Or is there (gulp) more than one?

Since that's NOT the one I've been told he owes, nor is the amount the same, I have to assume he's actually having payment problems with at least two stores.

Sigh. The march of classiness and honorable behavior continues.

Gail

[Gail Simone]

Gail is a harpy picking the dead flesh from the bones of poor ol' Olney. It is so sad I have written a song about it. It goes like this:

Only The Olney (with apologies to Roy Orbison)

Only the Olney (dum-dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)
Knows the way to fight (ooh-yay-yay-yay-yeah)
Only the Olney (dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)
Knows he is always right! (dum-dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)

There goes his money
There goes his behind
Theyre gone forever
Gail blew his mind

But only the Olney
Knows why
he cry
Only the Olney

Ah....my HERO!

Ya know I really resent the fact that Gail and so many others of her champion like ilk have made it nigh impossible for me to be cheated by Olney in the future. Spoilsports.



Is it wrong that I actually tried singing this, Roy-style?

WORKIN' FOR THE MAN!

Gail

[howyadoin]

Aw be fair.

There are rules of the comm board and if you don't follow them properly you will be banned. iwarrior was banned for what he said on the comm board.

Nobody has been banned for what they have said on this board.Good point, TC. Obviously CBR would be better if iwarrior were still here spewing mysogny and ignorance.

[TCJohnson]

Good point, TC. Obviously CBR would be better if iwarrior were still here spewing mysogny and ignorance.

I never said that, please don't put words in my mouth.

All I said is that if you compare YABS and Comms, YABS has the more relaxed rules. I never said that is a good thing...I think it has it's advantages or disadvantages.

[Danny Donovan]

Bev!

I like your new avatar. ^_^

Sara said she thought outlaw was hotter as a redhead. :-p

[Gail Simone]

Yikes, that was pretty cold. All these years I've been posting on the Comm and didn't even know I was being repressed.

Howya, you know I love ya, but come on. I'm not bashing the Comm board. Everyone who posts there knows it's moderated, and by the constant, never-ending discussion about it in the back room, it's pretty clear that many think the moderation can be very arbitrary. I'm not saying it's bad, everyone knows what the rules are there.

Just as everyone who posts here, I believe, knows we don't ban, censor or delete. Even the extraordinary step of locking out ONE Rick Olney account (because he was intentionally deleting every rotten thing he said) was taken only after great consideration. Said simply, my love of free speech makes the very act of deleting and banning seem really toxic and hypocritical, so to be on the safe side, I just assume everyone's an adult and responsibile for their own comments and leave it at that. In that, I believe we're the only board here at CBR who operates that way.

I believe 95% of moderating here and elsewhere is completely unnecessary, and I probably always will. It doesn't mean the mods are bad people--they aren't, and they mean only good things. I just think it's unnecessary.

That's all.

Best,

Gail

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

You know, the more I learn about how TLE operated, the more I'm convinced that not only was Olney a bumbling business man but one that purposely set out to use deception when dealing with the people he hired.

I believe from the very start he never intended to pay anyone upfront as he promised. I think he incorrectly banked upon the book making him a huge profit, believing he could stall the creators until then to make a pay off.

I think he did this because otherwise no one would have accepted his offers with pay on the back end.

He didn't considered that the creators would never allow TOTS #1 to go to print without being paid.

He also overestimated TOTS #1 potential sales being able to cover what he promised to pay to the creators. Even good sales would have seen the entire project in the red.

I'm astounded by not just his lack of ethics but his amazingly bad business skills.

I don't know what made me drop my jaw more...the sheer cost of this or his cheating of said creators, or the salvation army thing. The things this guy has said and done here alone boggle the mind. As an observer primarily it's just been amazing to me something like this goes on. You think we'd have gotten past this a long time ago. As is though, I have no idea how Rick was planning to make money...he "spent" a FORTUNE on the book before even printing costs are made.

On the plus side, I've learned more about trademarks and copyrights thanks to Ms. Doran and I think this is a great place to get educated...as well as having a bit of fun.

JP

[Blake Petit]

But looking at some of the agreements he made with creators, I think it's even more sinister, and his ridiculous belief that people are actually CLAMORING for comics written by complete unknown and devoted-weirdoes with no experience or talent speaks for itself.

Hey now, don't lump all of us unknown weirdoes in with Rick. :D

[Gail Simone]

Good point, TC. Obviously CBR would be better if iwarrior were still here spewing mysogny and ignorance.

Right, point taken, but I've seen plenty of folks who were NOT iwarrior banned simply because a mod took it into his or her head that that person wasn't the kind of poster they liked. Do you deny that that's happened? Which is the worse offense?

It's just a difference in philosophy, for pete's sake, not Armageddon.

;)

Gail

[wishlish]

That's really it. If people want to eat at each other a little bit in Rick's absence, it's understandable, but I think also a little pointless. Anyone genuniely offended, what can I say? I disagree heartily.

Gail

My honest opinion is that this has been the politest lynch mob I've ever seen. Sure, we're out to call Olney on his sins, and we're direct about it. But you set rules from the beginning (no picking on his family, etc), and we've followed it. Certainly, we've given him much more consideration than he deserves. I respect you and the management of CBR for how this thing has been handled.

And Colleen Doran IS awesome. If anyone here hasn't read Orbiter, A Distant Soil, and/or her collaboration with JMS, Book of Lost Souls, go down to your local comics store and pick them up this very week. They're all fine comics, and Orbiter is probably one of the five best graphic novels I've ever read.

[EdContradictory]

his run-rabbit-run behavior proves that quite neatly.


More like "run, Forrest, run" behavior.

[wishlish]

Since that's NOT the one I've been told he owes, nor is the amount the same, I have to assume he's actually having payment problems with at least two stores.

Sigh. The march of classiness and honorable behavior continues.

Gail

How much more are you hearing, without divulging the victim?

Sheesh.

Did this guy have money to start out with?

[Gail Simone]

Hey now, don't lump all of us unknown weirdoes in with Rick. :D

I can lump if I want!

I'm told Rick was served again recently, but details are sketchy. Hopefully we'll have some concrete facts shortly.

Gail

[Blake Petit]

How much more are you hearing, without divulging the victim?

Sheesh.

Did this guy have money to start out with?

Does bus fare count?

[Paul D. Storrie]

And Colleen Doran IS awesome. If anyone here hasn't read Orbiter, A Distant Soil, and/or her collaboration with JMS, Book of Lost Souls, go down to your local comics store and pick them up this very week. They're all fine comics, and Orbiter is probably one of the five best graphic novels I've ever read.

You can't go wrong picking up something Colleen has illustrated. Even if the script wasn't the best (and I think Colleen has pretty much avoided any awful collaborations), the art is terrific. And obviously with A Distant Soil you get great art in conjunction with a story crafted by the razor sharp intellect we've seen on display here.

PDS

[Jack Zodiac]

Gail and others have commented on this already, but I'd like to say that, like them, I find it astonishing to see that people keep coming forward with tales of being Olneyed, yet nobody is stepping forward with any positives. It appears this guy has no support whatsoever, which is itself astonishing. Hell, even Charles Manson has faithful followers and defenders and apologists and fans.

We should get Webster's on this. I bet it could be the next "truthiness."

If Gail's a bully, then I'm a ballet dancer.

Only if they make Hawaiian shirt print tights and tutus.

You know, the more I learn about how TLE operated, the more I'm convinced that not only was Olney a bumbling business man but one that purposely set out to use deception when dealing with the people he hired.

That's how con artists work, my friend. They think of a way to fuck you, lure you in, then fuck you silly. Rick's just a really stupid person, so his con completely backfired on him.

Ronee, I just want to assure you that my friend had nothing but good things to say of Chris! He was himself kind of ticked off with the money-man's ploys and understood the attitude of pressing for payment. It was just the added insight of there having been even a "brush" with Olney in the situation.

Dickface was gonna' try to sucker ChrisCross? What an asshole. I mean, yeah... he's an asshole for suckerin' anybody (even, I'unno... Rob Liefeld!), but Chris has done real mainstream stuff. I threw a shit-fit when I heard Captain Marvel was gettin' canned, not just because I liked the story, but because Chris' art was what made that book so incredible. Glad he never actually gave any work to Dick. "Glad he didn't give Dick dick!" I'm awesome.

I first fell in love with Chris's art back in his Milestone days. His work on Captain Marvel was fantastic. He's a great comics artist.

Damn right, he is!

There's more than one. Although I do know at least one was paid. There was a comic retailer that bought space at one of the failed conventions and did not get his table monies promptly returned, which led to a bit of a broughaha and it took quite some time before the fellow actually did get his money.

Wow... Dickface has truly screwed over just about every angle of the industry he's could. He's screwed retailers, he's screwed creators... the only people he hasn't screwed are the fan's, seeing as how he hasn't got any.

Yikes, that was pretty cold. All these years I've been posting on the Comm and didn't even know I was being repressed.

You mean... they aren't makin' you wear manacles?

What the fuck, Cronin?

Aw be fair.

There are rules of the comm board and if you don't follow them properly you will be banned. iwarrior was banned for what he said on the comm board.

Nobody has been banned for what they have said on this board.

Now, you be fair. That weird motherfucker had that comin' long before it ever happened. Calling the Subway chick he was stalking a cunt just kinda' sealed it.

Wasn't his thoughts on this that "old guard" guys like Waid and Kurt were holding back new talent like him? (I could be wrong.)

Hrm. Isn't Olney in his 50's? It's not like he's a young,starving artist-type. I'm sure he's had plenty of chances to make something of himself. Maybe the part of the reason for his behavior is that he's seen his chance come and go. So he's grown a tad bitter?

His excuse is that guys like Waid and Busiek, who have been in the business for quite a while and have done great work, are holding him back. They're "the old guard" because of their seniority in the business, not their age. I'm sure he'd say Vaughan or Morrison or Bendis or Millar were holding him back, too. :p

And so far as moderation goes, I'd like to think that while YABS is lax in enforcing crap like pointless thread drifts and language, when it came down to it, if there were an "iwarrior" of the YABS forum, he'd be dealt with. Some of the rules enforced in the Community forum aren't enforced here, but there's a line between being stupid and being an asshole, and I've got faith that either Gail or Oz would draw that line at some point.

Luckily, so far as I've seen, it's never been a problem. Even J-Bolt was transformed into someone who'd require moderation to forum entertainment. :p

[TCJohnson]

Just as everyone who posts here, I believe, knows we don't ban,
Gail

I know, I have been trying to get banned for months.

[Paul D. Storrie]

I can lump if I want!l

Suddenly, I'm hearing Men Without Hats:

I can lump if I want to!
I can leave your friends behind.
Because your friends don't lump and if they don't lump
Well they're no friends of mine!

PDS

[TCJohnson]

Now, you be fair. That weird motherfucker had that comin' long before it ever happened. Calling the Subway chick he was stalking a cunt just kinda' sealed it.



Never said otherwise. Just pointing out that people have been banned from Comms and not from Yabs. When you compare the two, yabs is the more lenient. Again, there are plus and minuses to both.

[howyadoin]

Howya, you know I love ya, but come on. I'm not bashing the Comm board. Everyone who posts there knows it's moderated, and by the constant, never-ending discussion about it in the back room, it's pretty clear that many think the moderation can be very arbitrary. I'm not saying it's bad, everyone knows what the rules are there.Fair enough. The comment just sounded kinda snide the way it was worded, but no big deal.

[MacQuarrie]

Good point, TC. Obviously CBR would be better if iwarrior were still here spewing mysogny and ignorance.

Hey, we sometimes need a chew-toy.

[Jack Zodiac]

Never said otherwise. Just pointing out that people have been banned from Comms and not from Yabs. When you compare the two, yabs is the more lenient. Again, there are plus and minuses to both.

I know what you meant, but you picked iwarrior out of the lot of people who you could've picked (curefreak's a good one, too). Still, while I admire Gail's leniency, I think that if a poster like iwarrior came along and acted exactly like he did at the Comm forum, someone here would ban him. Like I said, there's being stupid and there's being an asshole. If YABS had its own personal stupid asshole (that wasn't me), someone would eventually have to ban him.

[TCJohnson]

For the last fucking time, I did not say it was a bad thing he was banned. I am just saying that the difference between YABS and Comm is that he would not have been banned here....which again not making a judgement call, just pointing out the difference.

(This was written before I saw Jack's last response)

[amboy00]

Suddenly, I'm hearing Men Without Hats:

I can lump if I want to!
I can leave your friends behind.
Because your friends don't lump and if they don't lump
Well they're no friends of mine!

PDS
Lump if you want to, lump around the world,
Lump if you want to, without wings, without wheels,

[Merey]

Hey, we sometimes need a chew-toy.

Yup, that's exactly the way I see it.

[MacQuarrie]

And so far as moderation goes, I'd like to think that while YABS is lax in enforcing crap like pointless thread drifts and language, when it came down to it, if there were an "iwarrior" of the YABS forum, he'd be dealt with. Some of the rules enforced in the Community forum aren't enforced here, but there's a line between being stupid and being an asshole, and I've got faith that either Gail or Oz would draw that line at some point.
It's simple, really. Inevitably the fucktard in question will venture out from here onto another CBR forum, only to be rudely confronted with the fact that YABS is basically the wildlife preserve but the rest of the site is open season on fucktards. The first time they display the charm and grace that they show here, the hammer falls.

See, the Mods here talk to each other about the problem people, so by the time the fucktard shows up on, say, the DC or TV-Film forum, the local sheriff is well aware of their history, and their patience is not what it might otherwise be. Your conduct here, while unpunished, does go onto your permanent record and will weigh HEAVILY in how you are treated on other CBR fora.

In other words, a free pass to do whatever you want here is not necessarily a free pass unless you plan to stay put in the preserve. If you take your aberrant behavior to the wrong forum, it will not go well for you.

[THEDOC]

As some of you know, I am doing an article about Mr. Olney and the CBR thread for SP, though I have known "Rick" a few years, I don't know his background as to when was the first time he made himself known on the internet, was he involved in any indie groups or discussion boards back then?
Did anyone meet him at conventions back in the pre-internet days?
His early days are somewhat hard to trace. Thanks in advance. :cool:

[Dreadstar]

A relevant question if I may: Was Conan banned from CBR from actions directly relating to YABS or was he not?

[JamesRitcheyIII]

Wasn't his thoughts on this that "old guard" guys like Waid and Kurt were holding back new talent like him? (I could be wrong.)

Hrm. Isn't Olney in his 50's? It's not like he's a young,starving artist-type. I'm sure he's had plenty of chances to make something of himself. Maybe the part of the reason for his behavior is that he's seen his chance come and go. So he's grown a tad bitter?

That's not an excuse mind you. I just tend look for this type of thing.

At any rate it's a silly attitude to maintain. Any pop/self-help guru will tell that being bitter towards successful people can hold you back in your own ventures. Beyond that, it's just common sense. If he was a young man, one could excuse that world view more. But it's somewhat loathsome in a middle aged person.

(Just rambling, pay no attention.)

I must, Drew. Your argument smacks of Ageism, when the fact of the matter is Waid and Busiek have kept writers like Olney back in only one way--by not sucking. Rick is a Jim Shooter, a Salieri; an inferior talent who'd like nothing better than to ruin his betters' careers.

There are many examples of authors, throughout the history of western literature, who have never achieved any recognition, or even started writing until later in life. Many comic book creators (Steve Gerber and Gene Colan come to mind) are doing the strongest work of their lives, and are 'getting up there'. I, personally, have had to live a full life before writing the way I want, truly understanding the human animal enough to write characterization properly. I was hired by Eclipse as an artist for a short time (right before their dissolution) in my twenties, and came back only recently after years of animation, commercial illustration, even waiting tables, when I saw there was hope that my writing, if not my art, might sell. People like the two guys you mentioned, were doing brilliant, 'deconstructionist'-type things with superheroes, and generally writing comic book characters as if they're real people--a legacy that goes not only back to Miller, Moore, or even Stan Lee or Arnold Drake, but WAY back, to Al Feldstein's editorship, Joe Greene and Wil Eisner to Jerry Siegel--who was actually much better, after a short time, than you'd imagine. Good is good, whether the creator is 22 or 82, and 'washed up' is a marketing judgment--especially in comics, more often than not.
All I'm saying, Drew, is that I know you're not a Hater, and I'm staring into the eyes of death, turning 46 next week, so please, chill on that train of thought. Although if Olney was secure about his work, he certainly would have put it out by now, as he can afford it.

[MacQuarrie]

Suddenly, I'm hearing Men Without Hats:

Funny, I'm hearing Lesley Gore..

It's my forum and I'll lump if I want to
Lump if I want to, lump if I want to
You would lump too if it happened to you

Nobody knows where my Olney has gone
But TightLip left the same time
Why was he deleting his posts?
Well, he's supposed to be slime

It's my forum and I'll lump if I want to
Lump if I want to, lump if I want to
You would lump too if it happened to you

[Gail Simone]

Fair enough. The comment just sounded kinda snide the way it was worded, but no big deal.

Fair enough, but if so, it wasn't consciously intended.

Gail

[Gail Simone]

Lump if you want to, lump around the world,
Lump if you want to, without wings, without wheels,

Quit lumping my leg!

Gail

[howyadoin]

Hey, we sometimes need a chew-toy.I would have to disagree. I think he brought out the worst in a lot of people. Myself included.

[wishlish]

Quit lumping my leg!

Gail

Don't go lumping my leg...

I won't go lumping your leg.

Don't go lumping my-
Don't go lumping my-
Don't go lumping my leg.

(

[Matt Doc Martin]

Ok...St Jude's update:

A massive search was done by a sweet, nice lady and has turned up NOTHING so far. She used every name combination and search function she could come up with. She is now going to contact Rick to get some information from him to try to prove/disprove his claims. I warned her of his lack of cooperation and belligerence.

But again, so far, it looks like it is another pile of hogwash from peanut.

[Gail Simone]

A relevant question if I may: Was Conan banned from CBR from actions directly relating to YABS or was he not?

Who is Conan?

Honest to god, I can't keep these things straight. I vaguely remember iWarrior now, but not much of what he said that was upsetting people. I remember Talon and Omar being loathed pretty much everywhere else but being intelligent and mostly very polite here.

I just can't remember this stuff. Conan rings no bells whatsoever.

Gail

[Corrina]

And so far as moderation goes, I'd like to think that while YABS is lax in enforcing crap like pointless thread drifts and language, when it came down to it, if there were an "iwarrior" of the YABS forum, he'd be dealt with. Some of the rules enforced in the Community forum aren't enforced here, but there's a line between being stupid and being an asshole, and I've got faith that either Gail or Oz would draw that line at some point.



What happens to trolls is that try to take over the board, find it absolutely impossible because they're outgunned by people smarter than they are, which leads to mocking, which leads to them leaving. Sometimes to another forum here at CBR, where they repeat the behavior they tried at YABS, and get banned.

So, basically, trolls either straighten up and fly right at YABS or leave after providing regular YABS posters with no small amusement.

It's not everyone's system, but it works for YABS.

[Ronée]

Ok...St Jude's update:

A massive search was done by a sweet, nice lady and has turned up NOTHING so far. She used every name combination and search function she could come up with. She is now going to contact Rick to get some information from him to try to prove/disprove his claims. I warned her of his lack of cooperation and belligerence.

But again, so far, it looks like it is another pile of hogwash from peanut.Good Job Velma!! I wish I could hear his line of bullshit to her.

[MacQuarrie]

I would have to disagree. I think he brought out the worst in a lot of people. Myself included.

Dude, I'm at my best at my worst. It's exhilarating. Pure adrenaline-fueled ranting.

[Solaris]

A relevant question if I may: Was Conan banned from CBR from actions directly relating to YABS or was he not?

Conan was banned for stalking female posters.

[Papergirl]

Ok...St Jude's update:

A massive search was done by a sweet, nice lady and has turned up NOTHING so far. She used every name combination and search function she could come up with. She is now going to contact Rick to get some information from him to try to prove/disprove his claims. I warned her of his lack of cooperation and belligerence.

But again, so far, it looks like it is another pile of hogwash from peanut.
I'm sickened that he used St. Jude's to defraud people, but I'm not surprised. It's in keeping with everything else he's done.

~Bev

[Sarah Beach]

Ok...St Jude's update:

A massive search was done by a sweet, nice lady and has turned up NOTHING so far. She used every name combination and search function she could come up with. She is now going to contact Rick to get some information from him to try to prove/disprove his claims. I warned her of his lack of cooperation and belligerence.

But again, so far, it looks like it is another pile of hogwash from peanut.

I hope she makes it very clear that they do not take kindly to having their good name & reputation used the way he used it. Not that het will really "get" it, but worth a try.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Good Job Velma!! I wish I could hear his line of bullshit to her.

Well, since she is calling to verify teh donation, and is wise to his tactics (I don't know WHO told her....), I am imagining no amount of bullshit will fly.

She wants to verify it took place, as St Jude's name was used. So he can give the info, or not. If not, the donation never took place and he is nailed for another lie. And possibly more liable for charity fraud.

Frankly, I am all for giving him more rope to hang himself!

[TomStillwell]

Well, since she is calling to verify teh donation, and is wise to his tactics (I don't know WHO told her....), I am imagining no amount of bullshit will fly.

She wants to verify it took place, as St Jude's name was used. So he can give the info, or not. If not, the donation never took place and he is nailed for another lie. And possibly more liable for charity fraud.

Frankly, I am all for giving him more rope to hang himself!

Doc, I'd e-mail Brad at Utica News about this development. Using a charity's name to defraud people makes good copy.

[Val]

He also overestimated TOTS #1 potential sales being able to cover what he promised to pay to the creators. Even good sales would have seen the entire project in the red.


I agree. I imagine that's a dead-on analysis. It's a trap that too many up-and-coming indy publishers fall into... that notion that they will beat the odds, and that heaps of profit are right around the corner.
That thinking stems from a lack of research and a delusion of reality. I almost walked into it myself a long long time ago, pre-MV days... but it was with friends, and we were lucky enough to wise up at the last second.

I'm not surprised to hear of Rick's attempts to avoid legal recourse by dissolving his LLC. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. I think he's going to find there is more to come in terms of lawsuits against him.

One could guess he was dissolving to keep his wife out of harm's way. But given his attitude on these forums, his approach to business, and the rumor of strife with other family members, I am doubtful of such noble intentions and imagine it was a last ditch effort on his part to avoid having to answer for some of his mistakes.

I hope anyone who has a case against Rick is taking Mr. Waid up on his generous offer.

[LomiMonet]

Doc, I'd e-mail Brad at Utica News about this development. Using a charity's name to defraud people makes good copy.


Do I hear the sound of a sphincter puckering to the point of implosion?

Poor Rick, poor,poor, Rick.

[Matt Doc Martin]

Doc, I'd e-mail Brad at Utica News about this development. Using a charity's name to defraud people makes good copy.

Good idea. I shall.

[mike627]

Well, since she is calling to verify teh donation, and is wise to his tactics (I don't know WHO told her....), I am imagining no amount of bullshit will fly.

She wants to verify it took place, as St Jude's name was used. So he can give the info, or not. If not, the donation never took place and he is nailed for another lie. And possibly more liable for charity fraud.

Frankly, I am all for giving him more rope to hang himself!Rick is reaping what he sowed,now I wonder how many lawsuits he has been served with by now?

[rummblestrips]

Well, since she is calling to verify teh donation, and is wise to his tactics (I don't know WHO told her....), I am imagining no amount of bullshit will fly.

She wants to verify it took place, as St Jude's name was used. So he can give the info, or not. If not, the donation never took place and he is nailed for another lie. And possibly more liable for charity fraud.

Frankly, I am all for giving him more rope to hang himself!

If you would like me to scan the flyer or if they request it from you, just pm me and I'll pop it up immediately

[Jack Zodiac]

I hope she makes it very clear that they do not take kindly to having their good name & reputation used the way he used it. Not that het will really "get" it, but worth a try.

I think the only words he'd undestand would be "take" and "used." The rest would be white noise.

[JTPencils]

The latest Olney bile sent to me today...

---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> ""Find" all you want, Jim. You've broken a couple laws and your non
> disclosure. I have every intention of taking you to court. Just allow
> yourself to be lulled into thinking that vigilantee thinking is legal. Or
> that you even have have some claim to copyright of my characters."
>

my response...

"As to laws I've broken, name them? You couldn't quote the law of Gravity if Newton was whispering it in your ear. As for your non disclosure, pathetic as it is, doesn't cover anything about me speaking up about you being a lying, non paying, scumbag. I've said nothing about your story lines or plots, other then that they were pathetic. As for co ownership... seeing how you haven't paid me for the work, and you yourself had my name placed on the images as co-owner, the rights of my images revert back to me until they are paid for.

As I said, your attorney's name and address are all I need from you. But like everything else you claim, having a lawyer is probably just another hollow statement. So I won't be surprised to find there is no such person."

[Perry Holley]

Conan was banned for stalking female posters.Actually, while he did have a history of that, Dreadstar is correct to note that it was his actions on a YABS thread that caused him to be permanently banned.

Gail didn't pull the ban trigger, but I doubt she shed any tears over Conan being gone.

[colleen]

This may have already been covered, but charities have a right to forbid their name to be used by anyone raising money for them who has not been authorized by the charity.

You're supposed to contact the charity first and get written authorization to use their name. The charities I have dealt with require letters of reference as to your good character.

I have never endorsed a charity in my comic without permission.

I endorsed Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays and The Amy Center, a Child Advocacy Group. I ran ads for them in my comics. In fact, I approached Covenant House about supporting them with ads, and I went through the whole approval process. Then there was a scandal alleging sexual abuse at Covenant House, and I decided not to run any ads for them.

You can put a note in your comic asking people to send money directly to an organization you support, and that is fine, but it is extremely misleading to collect money or goods without the endorsement of the charity.


c

[MacQuarrie]

The latest Olney bile sent to me today...

---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> ""Find" all you want, Jim. You've broken a couple laws and your non
> disclosure. I have every intention of taking you to court. Just allow
> yourself to be lulled into thinking that vigilantee thinking is legal. Or
> that you even have have some claim to copyright of my characters."
>

my response...

"As to laws I've broken, name them? You couldn't quote the law of Gravity if Newton was whispering it in your ear. As for your non disclosure, pathetic as it is, doesn't cover anything about me speaking up about you being a lying, non paying, scumbag. I've said nothing about your story lines or plots, other then that they were pathetic. As for co ownership... seeing how you haven't paid me for the work, and you yourself had my name placed on the images as co-owner, the rights of my images revert back to me until they are paid for.

As I said, your attorney's name and address are all I need from you. But like everything else you claim, having a lawyer is probably just another hollow statement. So I won't be surprised to find there is no such person."

Good lord and butter.

Dick has officially crossed into self-parody. NOBODY is this stubborn and slow-to-learn. No rational human in his situation would still be posturing and making threats. Anybody with the sense God gave a grape would be belly-up and begging for mercy.

This is the worst case of can't-be-wrong I have ever encountered.

Dick reminds me of one of those awful American Idol aspirants, who upon being told they can't sing worth a damn, launch into a screaming tirade about how stupid and evil Simon Cowell is, rather than admit they can't sing. It absolutely encapsulates the inverse relationship between talent and arrogance.

Hey Dick! Check it out: Incompetent hacks don't know they're incompetent! (http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb03/overestimate.html)

[Danny Donovan]

This may have already been covered, but charities have a right to forbid their name to be used by anyone raising money for them who has not been authorized by the charity.

You're supposed to contact the charity first and get written authorization to use their name. The charities I have dealt with require letters of reference as to your good character.

I have never endorsed a charity in my comic without permission.

I endorsed Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays and The Amy Center, a Child Advocacy Group. I ran ads for them in my comics. In fact, I approached Covenant House about supporting them with ads, and I went through the whole approval process. Then there was a scandal alleging sexual abuse at Covenant House, and I decided not to run any ads for them.

You can put a note in your comic asking people to send money directly to an organization you support, and that is fine, but it is extremely misleading to collect money or goods without the endorsement of the charity.


c

Colleen is right. When I was involved with the 9-11 book we had to speak to the Red Cross to have the right to use their logo as part of the book, showing where the donations were going. One of the few (only) books given the ability to do so.

You can't just plaster the logo, of St. Judes hospital, nor even mention it in conjection with an event if you don't have explicit concent from the charity, and charities are notoriously stringent upon knowing every bit of information about what's going on to insure no fraud could be committed.

Going to Rick's refusal to answer direct questions (even at the behest of a summons) I highly doubt he would have put up with anyone questioning him. Also, I would also refute his ascertations of working with the libraries as he once asked me how I came into involvement with the ALA when I did a small speaking engagement for a Teen Read Week ("Get Graphic In the Library") function in a few small locations around my area.

Which honestly, i cannot stress how sad that makes me, to think of someone I trusted defrauding a charity like St. Judes. For what its worth, I knew that a majority of things that were ballied about via the MMC, were exagerated pie in the sky ideas of at best a hopefull person and at worst a random blowhard, tauting plans that they have no idea how to make come to fruition.

And Jim is right, Rick's age doesn't make him a failure, there are many people that don't find their true calling until later in life. And some who try in their younger years, get discouraged and only return in their later years to find success.

Rick's failure is, not taking things to a political arena but much like some of the people he's backed, who have squandered any good will they may have had and instead trying to build a house of cards built on bullying and fear.

But a house of cards is insubstantial. the person wants you to believe it's as solid as one built of brick, as the substance is the same shape but on closer inspection it's got no weight.

(thank you "My Cousin Vinnny")

[Solaris]

Actually, while he did have a history of that, Dreadstar is correct to note that it was his actions on a YABS thread that caused him to be permanently banned.

Gail didn't pull the ban trigger, but I doubt she shed any tears over Conan being gone.


Oh. What I remembered was him stalking female posters, it being brought to light, mods saying "this is NOT acceptable," and banning him.

Then again, since my daughter was one of the ones he stalked... that tended to stick pretty strongly in my mind.

[NatGertler]

the fact of the matter is Waid and Busiek have kept writers like Olney back in only one way--by not sucking. No, that's not true.
Talent is an asset in this field, yes. In fact, it's the key asset. But it's not the only asset. The ability to meet your commitments is an important asset... and as someone who has published Busiek work a number of times, that's certainly an asset that I've found in my dealings with him. And being able to get along with people and to be assumed to act honorably, that's also an asset, and in my encounters with both Waid and Busiek, it's an asset that both show in droves. So even if everyone was lowered to the same level of non-greatness of talent (I'll avoid using the term "sucking", as I've found actual sucking to be very pleasant indeed at times), I would still expect folks like Kurt and Mark to outshine Rick in the field.

[kingdom2000]

Oh. What I remembered was him stalking female posters, it being brought to light, mods saying "this is NOT acceptable," and banning him.

Then again, since my daughter was one of the ones he stalked... that tended to stick pretty strongly in my mind.


I am confused, how is someone "stalked" online?

[NatGertler]

The latest Olney bile sent to me today...

---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just allow
> yourself to be lulled into thinking that vigilantee thinking is legal.

I'll agree with him there. Allow yourself to be lulled into thinking that any kind of thinking is legal, even "vigilantee" thinking (although that's not actually a word). In the United States of America, we don't have thought crimes on the books.

(Although the consideration does bring to mind an image of someone who is so cheap that he outsources his legal advice to some third world law firm... and gets advice based on their nation's laws.)

Rick may feel that people sharing information to generate lawsuits against him or to report him to the authorities smacks of vigilantism... and he would be wrong. Vigilantism requires working outside the law and government, and the act of going to the courts and the authorities is using the law and government.

[Perry Holley]

Oh. What I remembered was him stalking female posters, it being brought to light, mods saying "this is NOT acceptable," and banning him.

Then again, since my daughter was one of the ones he stalked... that tended to stick pretty strongly in my mind.I don't remember the specifics (I wish I did), but as I recall Conan had started a thread with the specific intent of stirring shit up with Gail - a textbook bit of trolling. This would have been when I was fairly new as a mod, and not yet aware of how much looser the rules at YABS were by comparison. So, I made a comment to the other mods about it.

Meanwhile, Conan had been eating up all the attention he's getting for all this. Revelling in it. After admitting he was basically shit-stirring for its own sake, he adds what would be his final post, leading to a classic reply from Tom:

Conan: "My work here is done!"
T'omm: "You got that right."

And thereafter, Conan was an ex-Conan.

[Cam63]

Jonah's okay with you being a bully? With you making posts that would get any other poster outside your mod-free zone perma-banned? Is that the question you asked him? Really?
"My way or the highway. Don't like it, fuck off." Got it. Interesting response.

You acting like a bully. You doing things that would get me or anyone else banned. You making me embarrassed CBR.
That has nothing to do with how you and we should treat him.
You know, that's what makes it so unfortunate. You’ve given him an out.

I’ve never said "Aww, poor Rick." I’ve said that he’s a lying thief, that the truth should out, and that he should face the consequences for the all shit he’s done. I’ve said that we’d be better advised to treat Rick with at least a veneer of rationality. I’ve said that you and we should not be acting like orcafresh. I’ve said that you and we all agreed to as much when we joined up here. It’s odd to me that you don’t see that.

I disagree with you on the bullying charge, Matt. Gail, and others are letting rip on this thread after years of being cheated and threatened by the piece of shit.

If you don't like how people have responded to Olney, read a newspaper instead.

[Cam63]

Hadn't you heard?
People fighting back and people fighting crooks are the new bullies. Americans need to watch what they say. And pink is the new black.

I know. I just gutted a pink ninja last night.

Damn fool, trying to hide in the shadows...

[AIPman1]

As some of you know, I am doing an article about Mr. Olney and the CBR thread for SP, though I have known "Rick" a few years, I don't know his background as to when was the first time he made himself known on the internet, was he involved in any indie groups or discussion boards back then?
Did anyone meet him at conventions back in the pre-internet days?
His early days are somewhat hard to trace. Thanks in advance. :cool:

The article in NOT intended to be ABOUT Rick Olney, in fact, I don't care if his name even gets mentioned. The article is SUPPOSED to be ABOUT the Unscrewed project. Just for the record. I'll e-mail you more about it off-board Doc...

[howyadoin]

Dude, I'm at my best at my worst. It's exhilarating. Pure adrenaline-fueled ranting.Define "best".

[Perry Holley]

I am confused, how is someone "stalked" online?Cyberstalking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking)

[Gail Simone]

I don't remember the specifics (I wish I did), but as I recall Conan had started a thread with the specific intent of stirring shit up with Gail - a textbook bit of trolling. This would have been when I was fairly new as a mod, and not yet aware of how much looser the rules at YABS were by comparison. So, I made a comment to the other mods about it.

Meanwhile, Conan had been eating up all the attention he's getting for all this. Revelling in it. After admitting he was basically shit-stirring for its own sake, he adds what would be his final post, leading to a classic reply from Tom:

Conan: "My work here is done!"
T'omm: "You got that right."

And thereafter, Conan was an ex-Conan.


Wow. This rings no bells whatsoever.

I have zero memory for trolls, as a rule.

They just sorta woosh right into the dumpster of my mind.

Gail

[Cam63]

Gail is a harpy picking the dead flesh from the bones of poor ol' Olney. It is so sad I have written a song about it. It goes like this:

Only The Olney (with apologies to Roy Orbison)

Only the Olney (dum-dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)
Knows the way to fight (ooh-yay-yay-yay-yeah)
Only the Olney (dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)
Knows he is always right! (dum-dum-dum-dum-N-D-A)

There goes his money
There goes his behind
Theyre gone forever
Gail blew his mind

But only the Olney
Knows why
he cry
Only the Olney

Ah....my HERO!

Ya know I really resent the fact that Gail and so many others of her champion like ilk have made it nigh impossible for me to be cheated by Olney in the future. Spoilsports.

I am Cam63 and I approve of this post.

[Cam63]

Wow. This rings no bells whatsoever.

I have zero memory for trolls, as a rule.

They just sorta woosh right into the dumpster of my mind.

Gail

The first day I checked CBR and YABS, I witnessed Conan's demise.

That was cool work by T'omm.

[Cam63]

Is it wrong that I actually tried singing this, Roy-style?

WORKIN' FOR THE MAN!

Gail

I thought that was a distressed moose !

[TomStillwell]

The latest Olney bile sent to me today...

---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> ""Find" all you want, Jim. You've broken a couple laws and your non
> disclosure. I have every intention of taking you to court. Just allow
> yourself to be lulled into thinking that vigilantee thinking is legal. Or
> that you even have have some claim to copyright of my characters."
>

my response...

"As to laws I've broken, name them? You couldn't quote the law of Gravity if Newton was whispering it in your ear. As for your non disclosure, pathetic as it is, doesn't cover anything about me speaking up about you being a lying, non paying, scumbag. I've said nothing about your story lines or plots, other then that they were pathetic. As for co ownership... seeing how you haven't paid me for the work, and you yourself had my name placed on the images as co-owner, the rights of my images revert back to me until they are paid for.

As I said, your attorney's name and address are all I need from you. But like everything else you claim, having a lawyer is probably just another hollow statement. So I won't be surprised to find there is no such person."

Have no worries. I spoke to a real live lawyer today, who I can name if needed, who has not only looked at this thread but laughed when I mentioned Rick Olney suing anyone.

"For what?" he laughed some more.

And then I explained the various reasons Rick thought he could sue.

And then he laughed a lot, lot more.

[howyadoin]

Wow. This rings no bells whatsoever.

I have zero memory for trolls, as a rule.

They just sorta woosh right into the dumpster of my mind.Conan wasn't really the kinda guy who made much of an impression.

[JTPencils]

Hey everyone, I got a twofer... two Olney ranting emails in one night!


"---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jim:
>
> Laws have been broken. We'll see how that little vigilantee group function
> as one by one they're picked from the group and made legal examples of.
>
> This is my last email to you on the matter. All further communication
> willcome from my attorney's firm regarding your assertions. My
> attorney already
> has your contact information. I can also assure you that I'll be giving you
> no breaks on the various lines you've crossed.
>
> But again, be aware: I didn't place your name on that art. Your friend Jeff
> did. I gave you no right of co-ownership, in fact, I made that crystal
> clear right after you stopped drawing for me. Copies of which are already in
> my lawyer's hands. We'll see how it all plays out legally. Likewise, this is
> also to advise you to no longer email me. Thank you."


my response to the nut job.

"I didn't initiate this series of email's oh deluded one, you did. As for your lawyer, ha, if you can't even name him... how do you think you can even threaten me with him being in touch soon? Who? Mystery man? Give it a rest.

As for no more emails from you, that would be fine by me. As for payment from you, that will be even sweeter. You're a beaten mole already, you just don't realize it.

BTW... invest in spell check you moron."


I'm curious, for those that have gotten papers served to this crumb already, has there been any sort of response from anyone even POSING as an attorney? If so, I could still use the name, so I can get my own suit started. Thanks!


ps.... personally, I think the rant about "lines that you've crossed", accusing ME of going too far... is probably the funniest thing peanut's ever written!!!!

[Solaris]

Cyberstalking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberstalking)

Especially when they search out all forms of internet contact on you, and use them... *and* start looking up your home address.

[Sarah Beach]

Have no worries. I spoke to a real live lawyer today, who I can name if needed, who has not only looked at this thread but laughed when I mentioned Rick Olney suing anyone.

"For what?" he laughed some more.

And then I explained the various reasons Rick thought he could sue.

And then he laughed a lot, lot more.

Tom, GET THAT MAN A HAPPY MEAL!!

In fact, get him TWO!

:evilsmile

[Danny Donovan]

Hey everyone, I got a twofer... two Olney ranting emails in one night!


"---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jim:
>
> Laws have been broken. We'll see how that little vigilantee group function
> as one by one they're picked from the group and made legal examples of.
>
> This is my last email to you on the matter. All further communication
> willcome from my attorney's firm regarding your assertions. My
> attorney already
> has your contact information. I can also assure you that I'll be giving you
> no breaks on the various lines you've crossed.
>
> But again, be aware: I didn't place your name on that art. Your friend Jeff
> did. I gave you no right of co-ownership, in fact, I made that crystal
> clear right after you stopped drawing for me. Copies of which are already in
> my lawyer's hands. We'll see how it all plays out legally. Likewise, this is
> also to advise you to no longer email me. Thank you."


my response to the nut job.

"I didn't initiate this series of email's oh deluded one, you did. As for your lawyer, ha, if you can't even name him... how do you think you can even threaten me with him being in touch soon? Who? Mystery man? Give it a rest.

As for no more emails from you, that would be fine by me. As for payment from you, that will be even sweeter. You're a beaten mole already, you just don't realize it.

BTW... invest in spell check you moron."


I'm curious, for those that have gotten papers served to this crumb already, has there been any sort of response from anyone even POSING as an attorney? If so, I could still use the name, so I can get my own suit started. Thanks!


ps.... personally, I think the rant about "lines that you've crossed", accusing ME of going too far... is probably the funniest thing peanut's ever written!!!!



FLASHBACK!

I got a similar e-mail years back after I had terminated my association with him first time around during the "You stole Sara/stop bullying me into paying what your due by making me feel guilty about your dying stepfather" e-mail.

Wow, even in threats he's unoriginal.

But I would advise you to run a search on any public court documents in the Mohawk area. A friend of mine does that regularly checking up on exboyfriends. Next time I catch her online I'll ask her how she pulls up her court records.

It should be a matter of public record where you could just call the courthouse and get the info on the defender.

[TomStillwell]

Hey everyone, I got a twofer... two Olney ranting emails in one night!


"---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jim:
>
> Laws have been broken. We'll see how that little vigilantee group function
> as one by one they're picked from the group and made legal examples of.
>
> This is my last email to you on the matter. All further communication
> willcome from my attorney's firm regarding your assertions. My
> attorney already
> has your contact information. I can also assure you that I'll be giving you
> no breaks on the various lines you've crossed.
>
> But again, be aware: I didn't place your name on that art. Your friend Jeff
> did. I gave you no right of co-ownership, in fact, I made that crystal
> clear right after you stopped drawing for me. Copies of which are already in
> my lawyer's hands. We'll see how it all plays out legally. Likewise, this is
> also to advise you to no longer email me. Thank you."


my response to the nut job.

"I didn't initiate this series of email's oh deluded one, you did. As for your lawyer, ha, if you can't even name him... how do you think you can even threaten me with him being in touch soon? Who? Mystery man? Give it a rest.

As for no more emails from you, that would be fine by me. As for payment from you, that will be even sweeter. You're a beaten mole already, you just don't realize it.

BTW... invest in spell check you moron."


I'm curious, for those that have gotten papers served to this crumb already, has there been any sort of response from anyone even POSING as an attorney? If so, I could still use the name, so I can get my own suit started. Thanks!


ps.... personally, I think the rant about "lines that you've crossed", accusing ME of going too far... is probably the funniest thing peanut's ever written!!!!

Oooooo <quiver> I'm going to be made a legal example. Of. After being picked.

Hey, AssHolney...suck it! I get legal respresentation for free from one of the best firms in the country. One of the best? How good? Here's how good.

Here's where my firm kicked Amazon.com in the nuts on behalf of Toys R Us.

http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1154509538680&rss=ltn

This is where we took a bite outta terrorism. The lawyer I talked to today? One of the guys involved in this case.

http://www.lawyersweeklyusa.com/usa/7topten2004.cfm

The first case deals with a contract breach and the second misuse of a charity to fund illegal operations. Gee, sound familiar?

Wait, I know you get your lawyering for free too. You don't need to pay google and yourself for all your legal knowledge.

[JTPencils]

FLASHBACK!

I got a similar e-mail years back after I had terminated my association with him first time around during the "You stole Sara/stop bullying me into paying what your due by making me feel guilty about your dying stepfather" e-mail.

Wow, even in threats he's unoriginal.

But I would advise you to run a search on any public court documents in the Mohawk area. A friend of mine does that regularly checking up on exboyfriends. Next time I catch her online I'll ask her how she pulls up her court records.

It should be a matter of public record where you could just call the courthouse and get the info on the defender.


I appreciate that Danny. Though I find it hard to believe he's going to survive even one or two rounds of action's against him, I might yet have to file a suit of my own. I'll ask this privately to anyone who'd care to enlighten me (because I'm really not sure)... but is this beyond small claims? Is it a larger suit? What and where should I begin actually. Not that I'm daft, I'm just not sure which way to turn (for the moment). I'm quite certain that the nice folks here will direct me along the right path to take.

[OzBat!]

Oooooo <quiver> I'm going to be made a legal example. Of. After being picked.

Hey, AssHolney...suck it! I get legal respresentation for free from one of the best firms in the country. One of the best? How good? Here's how good.

Here's where my firm kicked Amazon.com in the nuts on behalf of Toys R Us.

http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1154509538680&rss=ltn

This is where we took a bite outta terrorism. The lawyer I talked to today? One of the guys involved in this case.

http://www.lawyersweeklyusa.com/usa/7topten2004.cfm

The first case deals with a contract breach and the second misuse of a charity to fund illegal operations. Gee, sound familiar?

Wait, I know you get your lawyering for free too. You don't need to pay google and yourself for all your legal knowledge.BWAHHHHH-HAHAHAHAAAA!

That sound we can all here is a flash flood coming from the vicinity of Mr Olney's computer chair....

[Sarah Beach]

Gang, I am trying to build a cut-and-dried Chronology of Olney's comic book/convention/online activities over on Unscrewed! (check it out: www.unscrewedcomic.com - the Olney Files)

If you know the dates of specific events (hirings, firings, conventions, when they were actually cancelled) please let me know. I've decided to go back in time, not just last fall's events. Currently, the earliest event listed is Gail's infamous visit to lovely Herkimer and the one day circus she & others had to endure.

Looking at dates put together, it gets really interesting. And I'm still in early stages of it.

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

Oooooo <quiver> I'm going to be made a legal example. Of. After being picked.

Hey, AssHolney...suck it! I get legal respresentation for free from one of the best firms in the country. One of the best? How good? Here's how good.

Here's where my firm kicked Amazon.com in the nuts on behalf of Toys R Us.

http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1154509538680&rss=ltn

This is where we took a bite outta terrorism. The lawyer I talked to today? One of the guys involved in this case.

http://www.lawyersweeklyusa.com/usa/7topten2004.cfm

The first case deals with a contract breach and the second misuse of a charity to fund illegal operations. Gee, sound familiar?

Wait, I know you get your lawyering for free too. You don't need to pay google and yourself for all your legal knowledge.

That was a cool precedent in the first link. Now I see why he's deleting himself. And you get them for free? Oh joy. Olney = FUBAR

JP

[wishlish]

When I called the clerk, I asked if there was an attorney on record for Olney. There was none.

Don't wait for him to produce an attorney. Sue him and let him find an attorney. Hell, knowing him, he'll try to defend himself.

There is NO attorney. None. Zero. Nil.

[Gail Simone]

Conan wasn't really the kinda guy who made much of an impression.

It's funny, every once in a while I'll run across one of these people and they believe we're LOCKED TOOTH AND NAIL in a BATTLE TO THE DEATH, when the truth is, once they're gone from here I can't remember them to save my life.

It's not snobbery or anything like that, it just doesn't stick in my brain.

Gail

[Danny Donovan]

I appreciate that Danny. Though I find it hard to believe he's going to survive even one or two rounds of action's against him, I might yet have to file a suit of my own. I'll ask this privately to anyone who'd care to enlighten me (because I'm really not sure)... but is this beyond small claims? Is it a larger suit? What and where should I begin actually. Not that I'm daft, I'm just not sure which way to turn (for the moment). I'm quite certain that the nice folks here will direct me along the right path to take.


Anything under $5,0000 is small claims territory, over 5K is considered fraud which is dealt with in criminal/civil courts. However, you could band together with a larger group and file a class action, which may or may not garner more attention than one or two small suits. One large one, for some arbritrarily large number would suffice. split equally among the people after individual damages have been recovered for "pain and suffering"

You could in fact, sue for $6,000 to take it to a higher court, getting around the price limit of small claims, and call the money over what your owed a what's the term for it? where the judge awards damages for the person being stupid to teach him a lesson?

decide how much you want to sue for, then get your attorney to file with the mohawk DA's office and get all the files pertaining to Rick and his litigious behavior, and then go from there.

:)

[Gail Simone]

Hey everyone, I got a twofer... two Olney ranting emails in one night!


"---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jim:
>
> Laws have been broken. We'll see how that little vigilantee group function
> as one by one they're picked from the group and made legal examples of.
>
> This is my last email to you on the matter. All further communication
> willcome from my attorney's firm regarding your assertions. My
> attorney already
> has your contact information. I can also assure you that I'll be giving you
> no breaks on the various lines you've crossed.
>
> But again, be aware: I didn't place your name on that art. Your friend Jeff
> did. I gave you no right of co-ownership, in fact, I made that crystal
> clear right after you stopped drawing for me. Copies of which are already in
> my lawyer's hands. We'll see how it all plays out legally. Likewise, this is
> also to advise you to no longer email me. Thank you."


my response to the nut job.

"I didn't initiate this series of email's oh deluded one, you did. As for your lawyer, ha, if you can't even name him... how do you think you can even threaten me with him being in touch soon? Who? Mystery man? Give it a rest.

As for no more emails from you, that would be fine by me. As for payment from you, that will be even sweeter. You're a beaten mole already, you just don't realize it.

BTW... invest in spell check you moron."


I'm curious, for those that have gotten papers served to this crumb already, has there been any sort of response from anyone even POSING as an attorney? If so, I could still use the name, so I can get my own suit started. Thanks!


ps.... personally, I think the rant about "lines that you've crossed", accusing ME of going too far... is probably the funniest thing peanut's ever written!!!!



(makes mental note never to mess with Jtpencils...)


How funny is it that this guy still thinks people are scared of him? As repulsive as his behavior is, pity and shame for him are about all I can muster up.

"Lines have been crossed." hahhehahahahahhaha!

Gail

[TCJohnson]

once they're gone from here I can't remember them to save my life.



What Gail really means to say is that she can't remember where she buried the bodies, and that is what she will say in court.

It's not snobbery or anything like that, it just doesn't stick in my brain.

Isn't that called brain damage?

[Gail Simone]

"We'll see how that little vigilantee group function
> as one by one they're picked from the group and made legal examples of."

Is this a mix of a vigilante and a manatee? Are they endangered by passing motor boat props?

Gail

[PatrickG]

You could in fact, sue for $6,000 to take it to a higher court, getting around the price limit of small claims, and call the money over what your owed a what's the term for it? where the judge awards damages for the person being stupid to teach him a lesson?
:)

Punitive?

You might also consider adding interest to the owed amount if it's close, I think.

Talk to a lawyer on that.

[Gail Simone]

Especially when they search out all forms of internet contact on you, and use them... *and* start looking up your home address.

Wait, he did this to your daughter?

Okay, THAT guy I would not only ban, I'd...well, it would be BAD.

Gail

[MacQuarrie]

It's funny, every once in a while I'll run across one of these people and they believe we're LOCKED TOOTH AND NAIL in a BATTLE TO THE DEATH, when the truth is, once they're gone from here I can't remember them to save my life.

It's not snobbery or anything like that, it just doesn't stick in my brain.

Gail

I'm offering classes in the fine art of grudge-holding. Interested?

[TCJohnson]

However, you could band together with a larger group and file a class action, which may or may not garner more attention than one or two small suits.


You probably couldn't do it. Lawyers only do class action lawsuits if there is a chance for a big payoff. The chance of Olney having the money to pay a settlement of a class action lawsuit is extremely low, and so are your chances of finding a lawyer willing to work it.

[Danny Donovan]

Punitive?

You might also consider adding interest to the owed amount if it's close, I think.

Talk to a lawyer on that.

That's it!

I'm sorry I'm having an awful week, it seems like words just dissapear from my lexicon!!!!!

Oh, and Gail, vigilantee is a new villian Kurt is going to put in the new Aquaman book before the new guy takes over. ;) He's going to be the sidekick to Black Manta.

[Gail Simone]

Oooooo <quiver> I'm going to be made a legal example. Of. After being picked.

Hey, AssHolney...suck it! I get legal respresentation for free from one of the best firms in the country. One of the best? How good? Here's how good.

Here's where my firm kicked Amazon.com in the nuts on behalf of Toys R Us.

http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLTN.jsp?id=1154509538680&rss=ltn

This is where we took a bite outta terrorism. The lawyer I talked to today? One of the guys involved in this case.

http://www.lawyersweeklyusa.com/usa/7topten2004.cfm

The first case deals with a contract breach and the second misuse of a charity to fund illegal operations. Gee, sound familiar?

Wait, I know you get your lawyering for free too. You don't need to pay google and yourself for all your legal knowledge.



SNORK!

Hhahahahahahaha! Them crazy vigilantees!

I love Tom. You guys should know this. I'm buying every comic he ever writes.

Gail

[Gail Simone]

I'm offering classes in the fine art of grudge-holding. Interested?

I suck at it. Sometimes it's bad because I forget about something, then when I'm reminded, it's like it JUST HAPPENED. :)

But in general, time and an apology both ways is the best medicine.

Gail

[wishlish]

If we're all vigilantes, like Olney claims, can we all have cool code names?

[TCJohnson]

I love Tom. You guys should know this. I'm buying every comic he ever writes.

Gail

You mean, even after he sues Olney for everything he has and begins publishing the adventures of Frankenborg?

[MacQuarrie]

Anything under $5,0000 is small claims territory, over 5K is considered fraud which is dealt with in criminal/civil courts. However, you could band together with a larger group and file a class action, which may or may not garner more attention than one or two small suits. One large one, for some arbritrarily large number would suffice. split equally among the people after individual damages have been recovered for "pain and suffering"

You could in fact, sue for $6,000 to take it to a higher court, getting around the price limit of small claims, and call the money over what your owed a what's the term for it? where the judge awards damages for the person being stupid to teach him a lesson?

decide how much you want to sue for, then get your attorney to file with the mohawk DA's office and get all the files pertaining to Rick and his litigious behavior, and then go from there.

:)
Small claims is better. Lower costs going in, and a bunch of $5K judgments hurts a lot more than one big one.

Matter of fact, there's a grass-roots program that neighborhoods use to get rid of unsavory elements, called Safe Streets Now! that relies on small claims court. Thirty or forty neighbors all suing one slumlord for $5k each for ruining their neighborhood has an incredible power. The guy rolls over and begs for some way to get out from under the 150-200,000 in judgments (and liens that follow with it, and the neighbors offer a settlement: Sell your building and get the hell out and we'll waive the money. You'd be amazed at how effective it is.

He doesn't have any money anyway, so the goal is to shut him down and make him cry like a girl.

[Danny Donovan]

You probably couldn't do it. Lawyers only do class action lawsuits if there is a chance for a big payoff. The chance of Olney having the money to pay a settlement of a class action lawsuit is extremely low, and so are your chances of finding a lawyer willing to work it.


Depends on a number of things, 1. having a previous relationship with an attorney/firm either by relation or by working for one as Tom does.. or 2. a glory hound that wants to see his name in the paper. They're usually very good and oftentimes take cases for the press.

And adding in EVERYONE's owed money, plus punitive damages. you could seize homes, cars, all manners of assets to be liquidated. If I'm not wrong I do believe there is some deal of land that was willed to Rick, some time ago. That would also be available.

His collections (if he indeed has any of the things he claims to) could be auctioned with the proceeds going to pay the legal decision.

[Solaris]

I couldn't even finish this.

If I were acting like a bully, like most of the mods here and elsewhere, I'd delete your post and ban you and all that chickenshit stuff that I hate about the net. This isn't the community board or whatever. Everyone here is allowed to say what they like, even if it's about what an awful mean bully I am.

I don't have a clue who you are, your opinion doesn't bother me--in fact, what I HAVE read seems like goofy navel-gazery. To me, it's not at all important that we disagree. You're welcome to continue posting or not, it's simply not that big a deal. I disagree with many people all the time whom I otherwise respect.

No, I didn't ask Jonah in your loaded and silly manner, but I spoke with him at some length and he knows full well what this thread is, how the rules of this board are different, and how I am as a mod (which is to say, not really much of one at all). And yes, he's fine with it. Encouraged it, and your implication otherwise just shows you don't really know Jonah at all.

Honestly, as I tried to say a bit more nicely previously, you're welcome to stay and be unhappy, or you're welcome to find the nearest exit and bitch about how mean I am someplace else. It doesn't change anything, not even slightly. The rules of this board have always been clear and they're not changing for someone's delicate sensibilities about this particular thread.

Gail

You know, Gail... this is what I don't like about your behavior. Sure, he could've said it better... but going by many responses you've made in this and several other threads, I think you should retitle this forum "Gail's Fan Club," because that's what it really is. Hell, I nominated you for the Weilander Award in the Corries, and suggested to others that they do likewise, for this thread and the good it's done countless people... and I stand by that. My vote stands.

However, you seem to believe that whatever you say when you blow up, once it's over, is over and all is fine with the world again. I've seen it in your responses to Typo Lad (with whom I understand you have a "history," and you seem to be holding a grudge about it---his responses to you in this thread alone have been polite, while yours have been much less so). The gist of it is indeed "my way or the highway---if you don't like it, leave." I've seen you say this to many other posters as well... and as often as not, they are NOT assholes... but merely someone who's expressing a reservation on something you've said or done.

That's a very good way of inviting GOOD people out of your life---almost as much as killing the messenger when they deliver bad news.

I put it to you: being rude to and ridiculing everyone who questions you, will leave you surrounded only by sycophants... and that's a very poor way to get feedback that you might *need*, whether you want to hear it or not, if you wish to grow as a person.

I had more than one person, when I suggested that you bringing Olney to light was worthy of the Weilander Corrie, mail me back with links to prior posts and threads of yours that I was unaware of... posts where you were plain old rude to people, and dismissive, whether the person was a rude asshole themselves, or a decent person suggesting that picking up pigshit to throw at a professional pigshit thrower might be emotionally satisfying, but ultimately hurts YOU in the end, because it lowers your own standards of behavior.

I think that's what a lot of people are missing in this, even in this thread and circumstance, where Olney richly deserves every speck of pigshit thrown at them: it's like U.S. troops torturing Iraqi prisoners---whether they deserve it or not, when YOU stoop to THEIR level of behavior, it lessens YOU and your capacity to respect other human beings. I think Olney is pond scum, and deserves everything that's coming to him. I have kept my vote in for you for the Weilander, because by dragging his mess into the light, you've helped an enormous amount of people.

My problem is that you use someone else's asshole behavior as an excuse to be rude yourself, and not just in this thread alone. There's been plenty of times I've seen, in looking back at other threads, where you've taken the initiative on being rude, even if the other person wasn't an asshole and was being polite. If you want to do that, that's fine---but it's not an adult, responsible, ethical thing to do. And, that you turn your guns toward *any* real criticism of your actions, whether they're from an asshole or a nice person, and whether they're politely worded or full of gutter talk.

And... since I'm being plain-spoken here, get off your fucking high horse about the Mods Forum. You don't like the rules, you don't like people agreeing that posters should retain a modicum of respect for others or be booted, fine. Jonah has made it clear that the "Columnist" mods have the right to set their own rules, as opposed to the basic set of decent human behaviors the rest of us have argued and fought to reach a consensus over. No one is ASKING you, or DEMANDING of you, that your "fan club" follow the "non-column" forum guidelines and rules.

The mods forum is not a secret society. Nor is it a place for mods to backsnipe at everyone. It's a place where we argue and fight at times, just like people will anywhere, over how things should be handled and what should be done, in order to keep this place friendly and welcoming.

And, when we're in the minority on a decision, unlike you, the rest of us just have to fucking suck it up and deal with it---because we're committed to trying to maintain a professional standard, and to live UP TO the kind of behavior standards, and being good, considerate people, that we promote to the the posters.

In other words, we do our best to "Walk our Talk."

When every time you turn around you invite people who criticise you in even the slightest, most polite sense of the word, to leave your forum... and you are rude to them in the bargain... can you truly say the same, oh "big hearted I've-got-brains caring person"?

You might think about that... but I seriously doubt that you'll read through my entire post, and whether you do or not, I expect a rude response followed by my invitation to leave your forum if I don't like it... as is your pattern.

[Gail Simone]

When I called the clerk, I asked if there was an attorney on record for Olney. There was none.

Don't wait for him to produce an attorney. Sue him and let him find an attorney. Hell, knowing him, he'll try to defend himself.

There is NO attorney. None. Zero. Nil.

Well done, Wishlish.

I think you're probably right. I can't imagine any lawyer taking his case knowing the mountains of evidence against the guy.

By the way, what does your handle mean, please?

Gail

[Blake Petit]

If we're all vigilantes, like Olney claims, can we all have cool code names?

I think Tom should be "Litigation Lad."

[Danny Donovan]

your right Mac. I was merely offering Jim a secondary option should he want to pursue criminal charges.

however, those will likely follow if St. Judes decides to file an injunction on him for fraud.

[OzBat!]

Regarding the extended moderating discussion we've just had and I'm coming in to late...

Everybody would have worked out by now that I'm the conservative moderator on this board. I spent time modding other boards at CBR, so I know what the standards are, etc etc ad nauseum. An aspect of the CBR forums that a few people don't appreciate, however, is that not all forums operate under the same rules. We have the general comic-related forums and the community forums, and then we have the hosted forums that belong to different creators. Forums belonging to blogs and columns would also belong to this second group. And essentially, these are hosted by the site, but run by the creators involved. Those creators almost never turn up in the moderator's forum, because quite frankly there's no requirement to, they're not beholden to CBR's general forum rules and they can handle disagreements in any way they choose. YABS is one of those boards.

When it comes to Gail's board, I'm only a backup for when she's away or not available for whatever reason. And even then, I don't have much to do. It's probably fair to say that I'm still operating far more conservatively over here than required. I've occasionally asked people not to post certain pictures (rather than censor outright I've been happy for 'em to change 'em to links instead). I've reminded people that beyond all the usual board-specific or moderator-specific rules around CBR, there is a default "baseline" so to speak that we strive to meet: "you don't get to be an asshole to people on CBR, you have the rest of the internet for that". That's the standard I generally try and gently push people towards on YABS. But as should be bleedingly obvious by now, it's a standard, not a law. With the intelligence levels of the regular YABS participants, it should be a fairly easy one to meet, but nobody's going to be strung up on the yardarm if they don't.

If the boss wants to rip into a lying deadbeat scum-sucking cheating moron or two, I'm not about try and contradict her. It's her board. Gail sets the tone, end of story. Jonah is happy with it that way, he talks directly to Gail on any issues. I'll occasionally raise issues I'd like advice on and participate on the moderator forum, but there's no requirement for me to do so.

The other point raised was concerning various people who've been banned previously. None of them were requested by Gail. Some of them, like iwarrior and Conan, were creating problems all over the forums, so the other mods took their YABS behaviour into account when agreeing to ban them, but it wasn't the deciding factor.

So for me personally, as a backup mod on YABS, this whole thing is a non-issue. The most I should need to do is delete spam and duplicate posts. Everything else is just giving in to the temptation to play with the pretty moderator tools.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Is it wrong that I actually tried singing this, Roy-style?

WORKIN' FOR THE MAN!

Gail

Only if it caused you some broken glass. ;)

[DrewEdwards]

I must, Drew. Your argument smacks of Ageism, when the fact of the matter is Waid and Busiek have kept writers like Olney back in only one way--by not sucking. Rick is a Jim Shooter, a Salieri; an inferior talent who'd like nothing better than to ruin his betters' careers.

There are many examples of authors, throughout the history of western literature, who have never achieved any recognition, or even started writing until later in life. Many comic book creators (Steve Gerber and Gene Colan come to mind) are doing the strongest work of their lives, and are 'getting up there'. I, personally, have had to live a full life before writing the way I want, truly understanding the human animal enough to write characterization properly. I was hired by Eclipse as an artist for a short time (right before their dissolution) in my twenties, and came back only recently after years of animation, commercial illustration, even waiting tables, when I saw there was hope that my writing, if not my art, might sell. People like the two guys you mentioned, were doing brilliant, 'deconstructionist'-type things with superheroes, and generally writing comic book characters as if they're real people--a legacy that goes not only back to Miller, Moore, or even Stan Lee or Arnold Drake, but WAY back, to Al Feldstein's editorship, Joe Greene and Wil Eisner to Jerry Siegel--who was actually much better, after a short time, than you'd imagine. Good is good, whether the creator is 22 or 82, and 'washed up' is a marketing judgment--especially in comics, more often than not.
All I'm saying, Drew, is that I know you're not a Hater, and I'm staring into the eyes of death, turning 46 next week, so please, chill on that train of thought. Although if Olney was secure about his work, he certainly would have put it out by now, as he can afford it.

Whoa there cowboy!

I'm not an ageist(I think that's the correct spelling). So please don't call me that again. I don't subscribe to any kind of "isms" let alone that one. Good work, is good work. Doesn't matter who it's coming from.


What I was commenting on is how Rick might feel. And where that attitude might come from. So he starts pointing fingers at someone...anyone...

And he starts making excuses. He grows bitter.

What I was trying to say is that attitude is strange coming from someone in his age group.

Typically it is younger people that resent the people more successful than. I'm not saying that's right. It's immature and I don't agree with it. I guess I could have been more clear on that point.

Looking back at my post I can see how it could be read that way. But it's honestly not how I meant it. Apparently I failed in making myself clear. To which I am sorry.

But at the same time, I don't to be viewed as a hateful person. So I hope this clears the air abit.

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

I am Cam63 and I approve of this post.

Than kew vera mush.

[Scott Shaw!]

A few folks have asked why Rick Olney would claim that Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, Tony Isabella and -- hilariously! -- myself have been keeping the young talents from gaining a handhold in the funnybook industry. It's simple: sheer, bitter jealousy.

I just remembered something that Rick Olney wrote back on the Comicon.com boards, years ago. He was in typical meltdown mode and out of the blue, accused Mark Evanier (who had nothin' at all to do with Olney or the discussion at hand) and I of using our "connections" in fandom to gain work as professionals in the comics biz. Considering that both Mark and I had our first pro sales back in the early 1970s (actually, I think Mark wrote his first PORKY PIG story for Gold Key in 1969!), that was far from recent news, yet Olney was still stewing about us getting our breaks.

(He must have seen photos of Mark and myself, otherwise he would have accused us of sleeping our way to the top "on our backs".)








(Y'know, like Gail did. Although that liar Bill Morrison says he doesn't remember a thing. And I only helped Gail so I could get closer to her yummy husband.)

Aloha,

Scott!

[Magneto_X]

Conan was banned for stalking female posters.

:eek:

I hope somebody alerted law enforcement to this. That's terrible!

[DrewEdwards]

LOL


If fandom was the easy way into the industry I'd be Marvel's top writer due to years of posting on Millarworld. Clearly I've been wasting my time...ya' know...actually making comics of my own. How could I have been so blind!?!?

[Sarah Beach]

A few folks have asked why Rick Olney would claim that Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, Tony Isabella and -- hilariously! -- myself have been keeping the young talents from gaining a handhold in the funnybook industrty. It's simple: sheer, bitter jealousy.

I just remembered something that Rick Olney wrote back on the Comicon.com boards. He was in meltdown mode and accused Mark Evanier (who had nothin at all to do with Olney or the discussion at hand) and I of using our connections in fandom to gain work as professionals in the comics biz. Considering that both Mark and I had our first pro sales back in the early 1970s, that was far from recent news, yet Olney was still stewing about us getting our breaks.


But.... but.... if "connections in fandom" are verbotten, what chance have I, a diligent fan & former letter-hack, of gaining editorial attention????? *sniff*






Oh, wait. Nevermind. Already did that! Heh.

[MacQuarrie]

(He must have seen photos of Mark and myself, otherwise he would have accused us of sleeping our way to the top "on our backs".)
HAH!

When Ashley and I were over the other night, she noticed the photo of you, Mark and a couple of other guys visiting Carl Barks. I pointed out which one of the hairy hippies was you, and she laughed and said "He had a pornstar moustache! He looks like Ron Jeremy!"

I'm not entirely happy that my daughter knows who Ron Jeremy is (I couldn't pick him out of a police lineup myself), but it was funny.

Maybe you should have tried to get into the biz "on your back"!

[Corrina]

Tom, GET THAT MAN A HAPPY MEAL!!

In fact, get him TWO!

:evilsmile

Similar laughter has been my husband's response to Olney's threats to sue.

He's of the general opinion that people should do what they want with the work and make Olney sue them, if he dares or has the money to pay an attorney. Unlikely, I think, because no attorney is going to take this case without money up front.

I tried to get Mister Corrina (hee, I just love it) more involved but he got burned pretty badly suing someone similarly nutty before--it took a lot of time and investment on his part and there just wasn't any money to be found from that person, so he couldn't satisfy his client at all.

So another option for people wanting to take up Mark Waid on his offer of legal help, is to consult with an attorney and get an opinion on what your specific legal standing is regarding artwork/contracts/ownership. Most attorneys are probably going to tell you there's no valid contract if no work is paid for. But it might make people on this thread a little more comfortable in using their work elsewhere if they had a legal opinion in writing, in the remote chance that Olney actually does sue.

Which I sincerely doubt he ever will.

Tom S. was being charitable, I think, about Olney figuring he can recoup his earning. Given what we've found out on this thread, that he's misrepresented nearly everything about himself since first coming on-line or being involved in the comic community, I think we're dealing with a con man, albeit one who was stupid enough to keep going to the same well once too often.

[Crowley]

Jonah's okay with you being a bully? With you making posts that would get any other poster outside your mod-free zone perma-banned?

You doing things that would get me or anyone else banned. You making me embarrassed CBR.

Um... who gives a goddamn what you think?
Also... since when do you speak for all of CBR?

More good has come from this thread than harm... just ask the people who were screwed.

[NatGertler]

Is this a mix of a vigilante and a manatee? Ooooh, oooh, write that character! I'd buy that!

[wishlish]

Well done, Wishlish.

I think you're probably right. I can't imagine any lawyer taking his case knowing the mountains of evidence against the guy.

By the way, what does your handle mean, please?

Gail

I went through a difficult time of life over a decade ago. During this time, I started an account on America Online, and needed a handle, and "wishlish" popped into my head. At first, I thought it was just a nonsense word, but it worked, because I wanted a handle that had nothing to do with my life at the time, if that makes any sense.

After I got through the tough time, for some reason, I realized I had shed much of the pain of the tough time and adapted, just like a chameleon. So I reckoned that my spirit animal was a chameleon called Wishlish.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense either sometimes. But it works. My real name is Ray Cornwall.

[MacQuarrie]

He's of the general opinion that people should do what they want with the work and make Olney sue them, if he dares or has the money to pay an attorney. Unlikely, I think, because no attorney is going to take this case without money up front.

Not a bad idea. Publish Tales of the Spooky (after they change that horrible name), if all the artists and writers can agree to a back-end payment, then split the proceeds. If everybody whose work is in the book gets what they're owed, whatever's left can go to others that were stiffed by the guy, on down the line until it's gone.

If I had the resources I'd do it myself.

[EdContradictory]

The latest Olney bile sent to me today...
---- Rick Olney <tightlip.entertainment@gmail.com> wrote:
> ""Find" all you want, Jim. You've broken a couple laws and your non
> disclosure. I have every intention of taking you to court. Just allow
> yourself to be lulled into thinking that vigilantee thinking is legal. Or
> that you even have have some claim to copyright of my characters."

Rick! We all know you do not have a lawyer because any real lawyer would have told you to stop emailing people directly a looooooong time ago!

[EdContradictory]

Hey everyone, I got a twofer... two Olney ranting emails in one night!

He must be dying for attention. He'll be back here posting in this this thread over the weekend, I bet.

[TomStillwell]

I think Tom should be "Litigation Lad."

My wife calls me that. In private. With the lights off.

[Blake Petit]

A little more than I needed to know about you, Tom, but thanks for sharing. :D

[Solaris]

Gail,

I want to apologize for being angry with you, and yes I was. I stand by everything I said, because I believe it to be true... but I could've said it in a way that exhibits much more compassion and human feeling for you---but I let my anger get in the way.

I am truly sorry about that.

In a dispassionate sense, I perceive those trends and tendencies in how you act and what you say, at times. I know that isn't the whole entire person who is Gail... but we all have to face our light and our shadowed sides. I try to face mine whenever I can, to learn and grow from both of them... and sometimes, it's extremely hard to do so. Sometimes I avoid it like the plague. But in the end, if I want to be who I want to become, I have to face it.

I was angry. I'm sorry. I was rude. I'm sorry for that, too.

I think that I said some things that really are true... but I could've found a much more compassionate, caring way to say them. I am at fault for not doing so, and I apologize if the way I said them hurt your feelings.

It's often, in criticizing others, that we find our own faults. I often need "validation" from others, in what I do, in order to feel that what I do, is worth anything. That's a low-confidence issue I have. It makes it easy to see it in others... but I'm better served in criticizing myself first with it, before I look outward at other people.

Anyway, however harsh my criticisms were before, I hope they've helped you in some way. And, I hope you know also that, even though I was angry and being rudely blunt... it's not because I hate you, but because I care.

If you think I'm a jerk after this, that's okay. I was angry and blunt. That's the thing about human relations: it's not just what you say, but how you say it, that makes a difference. I wasn't "walking my talk" when I addressed you before. I hope I've remedied that, in some small way, now.

Thanks for listening.

[Gail Simone]

YIPES. This is LONG.


Okay, let's DO THIS! : )


"You know, Gail... this is what I don't like about your behavior. Sure, he could've said it better... "

I don't know Matt at all. I don't know that I've ever spoken to him before this thread. Unasked for lectures are fine, but I prefer to know who it is who is being condescending to me (as that is how it seemed to me--you clearly read it differently), and I expect them to be able to stand up to a response if I disagree. I don't see that as unfair. If I were to go give Matt a little patronizing lecture wherever he hangs out, I would expect and accept a response, even if it's a little tart, because he's certainly allowed to defend himself and disagree, right?

I don't take this stuff as seriously as some people.


"but going by many responses you've made in this and several other threads, I think you should retitle this forum "Gail's Fan Club," because that's what it really is. Hell, I nominated you for the Weilander Award in the Corries, and suggested to others that they do likewise, for this thread and the good it's done countless people... and I stand by that. My vote stands."

Thanks, but I usually ask that I not be included in Corrie nominations for a number of reasons. I appreciate the thought, however.



"However, you seem to believe that whatever you say when you blow up, once it's over, is over and all is fine with the world again. I've seen it in your responses to Typo Lad (with whom I understand you have a "history," and you seem to be holding a grudge about it"

Well, that's not actually accurate, for several reasons, the number one being I had no idea that Typo and I have a feud of any kind and for the life of me, I don't know what it would be about. I barely have spoken with him, to my knowledge. Far from holding a grudge, I was quite surprised to hear that we're apparently at odds. Honest to god, I haven't got a clue what position it is of mine that he has disagreed with and vice versa. I don't dislike Typo, and other than his comments here I don't remember even talking with him much.

Part of it is simply my horrible memory, but another aspect is that little net frictions, I don't know, I find it hard to assign any massive importance to them for any period of time. It's just silliness--people get hot, they say something, later they apologize or forget it entirely, I don't think it's worth dwelling on, what someone said to me when they were mad.






"---his responses to you in this thread alone have been polite, while yours have been much less so). The gist of it is indeed "my way or the highway---if you don't like it, leave." I've seen you say this to many other posters as well... and as often as not, they are NOT assholes... but merely someone who's expressing a reservation on something you've said or done."

Yikes. No. Listen, here's how this is, regarding this thread and this board. NOTHING HAS CHANGED AND NOTHING WILL CHANGE, not because of this thread or because a few posters would have handled this differently. This board has always, since well before I turned pro, had a simple rule that people can post what they like. We don't censor, edit, or ban. That's not changing. This is not some new thing I came up with for this thread. It's not "My way or the highway." In fact, try going to almost any pro-run board and see if they leave up personal attacks against the host, something I do regularly. No one's forced to leave, no matter how rude. Is there a phrase, "My way or you can stay and post and say whatever you like about me, my dog and my writing and you won't be banned or censored or edited ever?"

That said, if you choose to lecture me or anyone else, I think you should be prepared to expect that your target might strenuously disagree. As I've said, Typo's said I'm not his favorite person, and okay, I don't really know him so I was a bit surprised, and we disagree on this thread. Why that's a big deal to anyone, I have no idea. It certainly isn't meaningful to me. He's welcome to post here or elsewhere, for as long as he wants, even if it's just to say he thinks I'm an idiot. It doesn't change his contributions, in my mind, to this board in the slightest.

That's not really, "My way or the highway," is it?

Even so, when someone's sensibilities are CONTINUOUSLY offended, my advice always is to move along, because that's how I would handle it. If I hate a comic, I stop reading it. If a message board thread, of all ridiculous things, is upsetting me and it's not going to change, I move along right smartly. That is the extent of what I was saying to Typo and Matt. Note that if they choose to stay, great, and they're more than welcome to continue to make their unhappiness known, if they like. It's not going to be moderated away into nothingness or diluted through edits and warnings..

But nothing's gonna change about the board or thread, not in principle, which is, people can say what they want. We've been doing it this way for years, and it's really the only way I want to have a message board at all. I don't consider my opinion more important than anyone else's, no matter what implications someone might make, sincerely. You can count the number of threads I start about ME ME ME in a month on one hand and a stick of gum, generally.






"That's a very good way of inviting GOOD people out of your life---almost as much as killing the messenger when they deliver bad news."


Huh? Why? Are people that frail and waiflike? They made their opinion known, in a way I felt was condescending, I responded, big deal, honestly. If they choose to tell me I'm full of it, fine, why is that so terrifying?


"I put it to you: being rude to and ridiculing everyone who questions you, will leave you surrounded only by sycophants... and that's a very poor way to get feedback that you might *need*, whether you want to hear it or not, if you wish to grow as a person."


First, I am sick of hearing that term 'sycophant' as being used to distinguish anyone who disagrees with someone with a beef. It's obnoxious and unfair and has NOTHING to do with the people here, some of whom I've known for ten years and consider my personal friends. They tell me when I'm full of shit, and I love them for it. I don't want sycophants, and these people don't fit that definition, and this is the only thing in your post that actually has made me the least bit angry. Not everyone agrees with Matt and Typo. It hardly makes them boot-lickers and I strongly resent that implication on their behalf.

I don't ridicule everyone who questions me, I ridicule everyone, including myself, whether they agree with me or not, and I enjoy when the same is thrown right back at me. Again, I felt Matt and Typo both were very patronizing. You disagree. Does that make YOU their sycophant?

" had more than one person, when I suggested that you bringing Olney to light was worthy of the Weilander Corrie, mail me back with links to prior posts and threads of yours that I was unaware of... posts where you were plain old rude to people, and dismissive, whether the person was a rude asshole themselves, or a decent person suggesting that picking up pigshit to throw at a professional pigshit thrower might be emotionally satisfying, but ultimately hurts YOU in the end, because it lowers your own standards of behavior."


Honest to god, Solaris, I don't know how else to say this, I think the Corries are ridiculous and always have. I appreciate it but I find the whole process weird and embarrassing and sometimes a little hurtful. It's like a beauty contest without the dignity. I regularly ask people not to nominate me. I have several CBR folks who don't like me too much and oddly, I'm fine with it. It's just not a big deal, and it's silly to live your life worrying about some little backroom gossip forwarding by people I don't even know.


"I think that's what a lot of people are missing in this, even in this thread and circumstance, where Olney richly deserves every speck of pigshit thrown at them: it's like U.S. troops torturing Iraqi prisoners---whether they deserve it or not, when YOU stoop to THEIR level of behavior, it lessens YOU and your capacity to respect other human beings. I think Olney is pond scum, and deserves everything that's coming to him. I have kept my vote in for you for the Weilander, because by dragging his mess into the light, you've helped an enormous amount of people."

You've lost me on the torture thing. I get what I think you're trying to say, but again, for the most part, people here are having a larf, even those who have been abused by Olney. I find that very healing and a LOT of new friends have been made. And most everyone here who has called him a name has either been cheated, lied to, insulted or threatened, or is the good friend of someone who has been treated similarly. We have some cause.

I think they're allowed to vent, and I say again, I'm not moderating this thread any more than I do any other, which is to say, not at all. I have several times asked people not to attack Olney's family or military service, or to threaten him physically in any manner, and other than those key points, people are allowed to say what they want just as they are in any thread here, ever.

I don't think I've done anything heroic or even noteworthy. I didn't start this to be a crusader, I did it because I was mad. Mad that people like Chuck Dixon and Val Staples were being lied about and threatened. It still irks me something huge. The people who are trying to help and succeeding, like Colleen and Tom and Mark Waid and Shelly are the noteworthy people. I would happily be their sycophant, now that you mention it. BOOTLICKING A SPECIALTY!

:)



PART TWO BELOW! AN EPIC YABS MINI-SERIES!

[Gail Simone]

More response to the very nice Solaris' complaints about my rotten behavior...

"My problem is that you use someone else's asshole behavior as an excuse to be rude yourself, and not just in this thread alone. There's been plenty of times I've seen, in looking back at other threads, where you've taken the initiative on being rude, even if the other person wasn't an asshole and was being polite. If you want to do that, that's fine---but it's not an adult, responsible, ethical thing to do. And, that you turn your guns toward *any* real criticism of your actions, whether they're from an asshole or a nice person, and whether they're politely worded or full of gutter talk."


Solaris, you seem to be under a bit of a misconception, that I somehow feel that my words are beyond reproach. In fact, I have admitted to being a jackass too many times to count, AND I make it a hard, stone cold rule that any stupid, idiotic thing I say gets left up unedited for the world to see and mock. If some wonderfully polite people got sprayed by my godawful venom and I HAVEN'T apologized, they are more than welcome to line up in a doubtlessly mile-long parade and I will happily confess being a moron sometimes. And my apology will be sincere.

That said, I don't feel that's the case with Typo and Matt in the slightest.

The notion that I think I'm superior to the people here or anywhere is so far off-world to me I can hardly even comprehend the accusation.

"And... since I'm being plain-spoken here, get off your fucking high horse about the Mods Forum. You don't like the rules, you don't like people agreeing that posters should retain a modicum of respect for others or be booted, fine. Jonah has made it clear that the "Columnist" mods have the right to set their own rules, as opposed to the basic set of decent human behaviors the rest of us have argued and fought to reach a consensus over. No one is ASKING you, or DEMANDING of you, that your "fan club" follow the "non-column" forum guidelines and rules."

No, I won't. I loathe the mod forum and was delighted to have Jonah remove my access. If it was all about "people agreeing that posters should retain a modicum of respect for others or be booted," that would be one thing, but you know it isn't. It's mostly snarky comments about posters in a place where they can't respond and defend themselves, sometimes by people who could use a dose of politeness themselves. I feel much happier not reading that stuff any more. I will add here that I know YOU were not of that stripe, but please, let's not pretend that doesn't go on, and constantly.

And certainly, people ARE asking me to follow CBR rules, even in this very thread. But Jonah's long agreed this board could be an exception and has been unwaveringly cool about that. I love Jonah and CBR tremendously, and he well knows I'll happily make a home somewhere else if this board is making trouble for him. But as I say, he told me several times recently that he was fine with this thread and this board.

"The mods forum is not a secret society. Nor is it a place for mods to backsnipe at everyone. It's a place where we argue and fight at times, just like people will anywhere, over how things should be handled and what should be done, in order to keep this place friendly and welcoming."

Well, we can disagree respectfully, can't we?


"And, when we're in the minority on a decision, unlike you, the rest of us just have to fucking suck it up and deal with it---because we're committed to trying to maintain a professional standard, and to live UP TO the kind of behavior standards, and being good, considerate people, that we promote to the the posters."

We're obviously talking about two different mod boards. What I saw was often very mean-spirited, petty, elitist, and sometimes cruel. It made me feel a lot worse about CBR than some poor poster lacking in social graces. And I don't feel that keeping quiet about backroom gossip in the presence of the gossipEE is particularly noble.

Listen, I may defend my position in this post, but it doesn't mean I'm not listening. We disagree, I don't think that's a calamity in any way, and it certainly doesn't change my respect for you.



"In other words, we do our best to "Walk our Talk.""

In your case, Solaris, I believe that's true. You have class and compassion. I do not believe that the mod board always fosters those qualities, and I was regularly told there when I complained, that it was, "the mods' way or the highway."

I like the highway. ;)

"When every time you turn around you invite people who criticise you in even the slightest, most polite sense of the word, to leave your forum... and you are rude to them in the bargain... can you truly say the same, oh "big hearted I've-got-brains caring person"?"


Not sure I understand this. Again, I think you're saying I'm telling people they should leave because they disagree. From my pov, it's, "this is how this board is run, just as other boards have their own set of guidelines, and if it really makes you unhappy, maybe this isn't the best place for you." I find that pretty damn fair, actually. I'm not telling, or even asking, for them to leave, nor would their departure make me happy. It's just the facts.



"You might think about that... but I seriously doubt that you'll read through my entire post, and whether you do or not, I expect a rude response followed by my invitation to leave your forum if I don't like it... as is your pattern."

Well, I would certainly HOPE you wouldn't leave, but that's not really my call.

As for rudeness, I think the response is quite a bit less rude than the post, unless "get off your fucking high horse" is now all the rage in the salons... ;)

Honestly, I'm not offended by what you've said, and I'm sorry you're plainly very unhappy with me right now. These things happen and I don't see any reason for them to escalate.

Best wishes,

Gail

[Gail Simone]

A few folks have asked why Rick Olney would claim that Mark Waid, Kurt Busiek, Tony Isabella and -- hilariously! -- myself have been keeping the young talents from gaining a handhold in the funnybook industry. It's simple: sheer, bitter jealousy.

I just remembered something that Rick Olney wrote back on the Comicon.com boards, years ago. He was in typical meltdown mode and out of the blue, accused Mark Evanier (who had nothin' at all to do with Olney or the discussion at hand) and I of using our "connections" in fandom to gain work as professionals in the comics biz. Considering that both Mark and I had our first pro sales back in the early 1970s (actually, I think Mark wrote his first PORKY PIG story for Gold Key in 1969!), that was far from recent news, yet Olney was still stewing about us getting our breaks.

(He must have seen photos of Mark and myself, otherwise he would have accused us of sleeping our way to the top "on our backs".)








(Y'know, like Gail did. Although that liar Bill Morrison says he doesn't remember a thing. And I only helped Gail so I could get closer to her yummy husband.)

Aloha,

Scott!



HA! WHO COULD BLAME YOU?

As I've said, Rick's insults to me don't bug me. My opinion of him really couldn't go any lower. But the stuff he's said to people, pros and readers alike, whose boots he isn't fit to sniff, that pisses me off.

And I didn't sleep my way into the industry, I slept my way into an Arby's, and I don't even LIKE Arby's.

Gail

[Larry Dixon]

Just a quiet few words.

It is an inevitibility in human behavior that, when a group grows beyond a critical size, it splinters and factionalizes. Large tribes form bands, and within each band, subgroups and within them, even more focused sets.

It is my hope that the positive effects of this thread will not be undermined by this coming to pass; it isn't something we can help, since it's just human nature. Just the same, I am concerned that there will be unnecessary animosity between people of, basically, the same side, that will eclipse the main event.

We should know when to say when, I figure, and remember we're good folks trying to do good things in our occasionally unsure, occasionally rough-worded way.

We can have differences with each other. But we shouldn't let it split us up.

"Hey... hey... hey... don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. Because remember... no matter where you go... there you are." ---Buckaroo Banzai.

[Gail Simone]

I went through a difficult time of life over a decade ago. During this time, I started an account on America Online, and needed a handle, and "wishlish" popped into my head. At first, I thought it was just a nonsense word, but it worked, because I wanted a handle that had nothing to do with my life at the time, if that makes any sense.

After I got through the tough time, for some reason, I realized I had shed much of the pain of the tough time and adapted, just like a chameleon. So I reckoned that my spirit animal was a chameleon called Wishlish.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense either sometimes. But it works. My real name is Ray Cornwall.

Nice to meet you, Ray, and you're very welcome here!

Gail

[JTPencils]

(makes mental note never to mess with Jtpencils...)

"Lines have been crossed." hahhehahahahahhaha!

Gail

Gail... nahhhhhhhh... I'm a huge teddy bear of a guy. But this guy would piss off the Pope AND Mother Theresa.

as for "lines that have been crossed"....

is it just me, or can anyone else envision that wing nut sitting in his chair, steel ball bearing's being juggled in one hand, a slightly discernible lisp... muttering...

"And I would have proved there was a key to the locker, and that the chef's stole the strawberries, if the Caine hadn't been called back... yes... I'll answer any questions you may have..."

Jose Ferrer of course being the prosecuting attorney... (we could dig him up for this one case)...

Geesh.

[Gail Simone]

Just a quiet few words.

It is an inevitibility in human behavior that, when a group grows beyond a critical size, it splinters and factionalizes. Large tribes form bands, and within each band, subgroups and within them, even more focused sets.

It is my hope that the positive effects of this thread will not be undermined by this coming to pass; it isn't something we can help, since it's just human nature. Just the same, I am concerned that there will be unnecessary animosity between people of, basically, the same side, that will eclipse the main event.

We should know when to say when, I figure, and remember we're good folks trying to do good things in our occasionally unsure, occasionally rough-worded way.

We can have differences with each other. But we shouldn't let it split us up.

"Hey... hey... hey... don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. Because remember... no matter where you go... there you are." ---Buckaroo Banzai.



We're gonna kill you like Piggy in Lord of the Flies.

:)

Gail

[EdContradictory]

Hey, wow, remember when this thread was fun and informative?

Like three pages ago?

Let's go back to that.

[THEDOC]

The article in NOT intended to be ABOUT Rick Olney, in fact, I don't care if his name even gets mentioned. The article is SUPPOSED to be ABOUT the Unscrewed project. Just for the record. I'll e-mail you more about it off-board Doc...

Sorry Ian, was just trying to get background as the article WILL be about the book and it's origins and I feel that "Rick" is part of that as I said in my e-mail. I will do what I can not to have him involved but I felt people who don't read this thread as stranmge as that may seem, may have contact with him and get sucked up in his game. .

[Solaris]

Just a quiet few words.

It is an inevitibility in human behavior that, when a group grows beyond a critical size, it splinters and factionalizes. Large tribes form bands, and within each band, subgroups and within them, even more focused sets.

It is my hope that the positive effects of this thread will not be undermined by this coming to pass; it isn't something we can help, since it's just human nature. Just the same, I am concerned that there will be unnecessary animosity between people of, basically, the same side, that will eclipse the main event.

We should know when to say when, I figure, and remember we're good folks trying to do good things in our occasionally unsure, occasionally rough-worded way.

We can have differences with each other. But we shouldn't let it split us up.

"Hey... hey... hey... don't be mean. We don't have to be mean. Because remember... no matter where you go... there you are." ---Buckaroo Banzai.

Thank you Larry. You help bring the focus back to the true purpose of this thread: helping others who've been had by a conman to find out they aren't powerless, and in the contrary, they have the power in their own hands.

I'm sorry for diverting that focus, folks.

[JTPencils]

My wife calls me that. In private. With the lights off.

Are you quite sure that wasn't "Little Lad"?? Semantic's I grant you, but it does alter the whole perception.

(just kidding)

[Gail Simone]

Hey, wow, remember when this thread was fun and informative?

Like three pages ago?

Let's go back to that.

Nah, it's fine, I don't mind people taking me to task as long as they're not jerks about it.

But hopefully we can get back to our important work of PICTURES OF KITTENS!

:)

Gail

[Corrina]

As a regular YABS poster, I object to being called a member of a 'fan club' or a 'sycophant.'








I prefer the term minion.

P.S. Seriously, I think that's a very bad generalization to apply to YABS posters.

[Gail Simone]

"I want to apologize for being angry with you, and yes I was. I stand by everything I said, because I believe it to be true... but I could've said it in a way that exhibits much more compassion and human feeling for you---but I let my anger get in the way.

I am truly sorry about that."

Well, first, no reason to apologize whatsoever. You were simply stating your honest opinion, which is what I hope everyone does here. Honest, don't give it a second thought.


"In a dispassionate sense, I perceive those trends and tendencies in how you act and what you say, at times. I know that isn't the whole entire person who is Gail... but we all have to face our light and our shadowed sides. I try to face mine whenever I can, to learn and grow from both of them... and sometimes, it's extremely hard to do so. Sometimes I avoid it like the plague. But in the end, if I want to be who I want to become, I have to face it."

I am sometimes vulgar, sometimes a bit thick, sometimes many different un-admirable qualities at once. No reason not to call me out when you feel I'm behaving badly, none whatsoever.



"I was angry. I'm sorry. I was rude. I'm sorry for that, too.

I think that I said some things that really are true... but I could've found a much more compassionate, caring way to say them. I am at fault for not doing so, and I apologize if the way I said them hurt your feelings."

Honestly, not at all, no worries. Again, I don't take this stuff that seriously. My only little red moment was calling these people 'sycophants.' I feel that was grossly unfair. The stuff about me, eh, I've been called worse and most of it's true. ;)


"It's often, in criticizing others, that we find our own faults. I often need "validation" from others, in what I do, in order to feel that what I do, is worth anything. That's a low-confidence issue I have. It makes it easy to see it in others... but I'm better served in criticizing myself first with it, before I look outward at other people."


You're fine, Solaris, honestly. No one's near perfect that I'm aware of (maybe Colleen Doran, but she's definitely the exception!). Please don't beat yourself up. It's just a disagreement and hardly worth being upset over.



"Anyway, however harsh my criticisms were before, I hope they've helped you in some way. And, I hope you know also that, even though I was angry and being rudely blunt... it's not because I hate you, but because I care."

I will probably never improve at anything. I'm really an awful person. :)

But thanks for trying!


"If you think I'm a jerk after this, that's okay. I was angry and blunt. "


Not at all, nothing of the kind.

"That's the thing about human relations: it's not just what you say, but how you say it, that makes a difference. I wasn't "walking my talk" when I addressed you before. I hope I've remedied that, in some small way, now.

Thanks for listening."

Thanks for this, but you committed no offense except to tell your honest opinions. I was never mad and I'm even more not-mad now.

Best wishes,

Gail

[Papergirl]

Nah, it's fine, I don't mind people taking me to task as long as they're not jerks about it.

But hopefully we can get back to our important work of PICTURES OF KITTENS!

:)

Gail
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Papergirl2hc/pleasantview-kitten.jpg

[Solaris]

PS Gail:

When I've been bad, I try to acknowledge it and fess up. In other words, like it or not, I try to accept the responsiblity for my words and actions, however human they may be.

I know you didn't see eye-to-eye with how things are done/decided in the mods forum. I don't always either. But... encouraging the idea that we're all jerks, or that we're all harping on posters, doesn't really help. You may have meant only *some* of the mods... but it was coming across as "The Mod's Forum, Period", IMO. Yes, like any group of human beings who are supposed to be behaving uber-good in order to be an example... we sometimes have to vent about people who are driving up our blood-pressure, whether it be to other mods, to our spouses, friends, etc. That's normal. You let off the steam or it blows your own cork, and you end up in the hospital with some doctor saying "you had a heart attack, Mr. so-n-so." And while we may pass warnings to each other on posters who are edging toward the line, we don't "witch hunt" posters. In fact, the worst thing is when you vent about someone, to find that another mod is friends with that person, and gets offended by what you said. We all need to vent. We all have people we've met, whether it's on the forums, on the job, or whatever, that have gotten under our skin to the point that if we don't vent, we're gonna explode in a not pretty fashion. The mods of the non-column forums try to keep that in mind, with lesser or greater success, when one of us vents about someone that's gotten "stuck in our craw."

In other words, we try to remember that we're all human, that we all don't have the same tastes or likes, and that we all need to vent on occasion.

Would I love to vent at the posters I think are complete jerks? Of course I would. Would it help the forums, or serve a real purpose? No. People have to make up their own minds about other posters... and often, their own opinions aren't in agreement with mine, for whatever reason. If I go off on someone because I think they're a jerk, it inspires two things: a dogpile of those who agree with me, and a heated defense from those who disagree with me.

In the end, it's better to let other people make up their own minds, based on what that person says themselves, than for me to express my opinion. That way, it's their decision. Not mine.

Anyway, that's a lot of what that portion of the mod's forum is about, IMO. On the RARE occasion when a poster gets a mod's back up past the point of holding it in, it gives us a "safe" place to vent for a few minutes. But really, the main point and focus of the Mod's forum is twofold: awareness of issues, and awareness of truly problem posters. People like Conan, who as I said, stalked (in real life) female posters. I'm sorry... but if a poster starts checking on where you live, and where you go on the internet, and posting stuff that indicates he's doing so.. it's time to pull the plug. Someone like that doesn't belong on these forums. And I say that, having my daughter as being one of the people he stalked... I did not WANT this person checking up on where she lived, etc... I'm rather protective as a parent, that way. In fact, I'm a tigress, in that regard. People do NOT stalk my children. Period. :D

[EdContradictory]

Can we start a separate thread for "Incredibly Long Posts About Board Moderation"?

But keep the kittens in this thread?

[kingdom2000]

Its moments like the last five or so pages that a yawn emoticon is needed.

[Papergirl]

Meh. Don't read what doesn't interest you. :)

Meanwhile...

Look! Kittens!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Papergirl2hc/noekula-kittens.jpg

~Bev

PS: Apologies to those ticked at the kitten pictures. I've been looking at every single thing Olney wrote in this thread, and I swear my eyes are bleeding from reading the sheer idiocy of his posts as I screen cap them.

[Danny Donovan]

Nah, it's fine, I don't mind people taking me to task as long as they're not jerks about it.

But hopefully we can get back to our important work of PICTURES OF KITTENS!

:)

Gail

Hey I can get behind that. I have 7 of the little furballs.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/dannydonovan3/Random/APicture128.jpg

[Larry Dixon]

Its moments like the last five or so pages that a yawn emoticon is needed.

-whispers- It's a chick thing....

[KevinTBrown]

Nah, it's fine, I don't mind people taking me to task as long as they're not jerks about it.

But hopefully we can get back to our important work of PICTURES OF KITTENS!

:)

Gail

Ok, no more attacks.





Well, maybe one more:

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Cats/KittenAttack.jpg

:D

[sk716]

You know what this board needs. . .


More ferrets!

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i194/sk716/Ferrets/rasslin.jpg

[Solaris]

-whispers- It's a chick thing....


Larry's got it:

clue to the clueless male posters

It's a mechanism where we womenfolks work out disagreements and sometimes petty behaviors (I admitted to such). Excepting the catty females in the population, we women really *don't* like being at odds with one another... and thus we work to try to find a way out of it.

;) :D LOL.

I love husbands who get this. Mine does, Larry apparently does. Bet Gail's wonderful hubby does too. :D

[Blake Petit]

Jus' doin' my part.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6853/10016767bh.th.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10016767bh.jpg)

[Sally Sensational]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/vigilant_oblivion/DSC00011.jpg

I want in on this kittens thing . . .

Meet Winter! She adopted us a week or so ago. She's a brat, but cuter than the picture.

[shanejayell]

As a regular YABS poster, I object to being called a member of a 'fan club' or a 'sycophant.'

I prefer the term minion.

P.S. Seriously, I think that's a very bad generalization to apply to YABS posters.

I'd go with henchman. :)

[khuxford]

My wife calls me that. In private. With the lights off.

That's the last place and time I'd want a woman to call me Lad. In your situation, I'd possibly accept "Litigation Daddy" or "Litigation Big Boy"...but not Lad...

[Solaris]

PS---this is why we need a woman president... excepting the "catty" type, of course.

:D ;)

As Robin Williams once said, "If we had female world leaders, we wouldn't have nuclear bombs... just some intense negotiations every 28 days."

:D

[Jack Zodiac]

Can we start a separate thread for "Incredibly Long Posts About Board Moderation"?

But keep the kittens in this thread?

Nah, let's boot the kittens there, too. Moderation ethics, clique rivalry bullshit, kittens and my incredibly heavy, sharp shovel can all get their own thread so this one doesn't get bogged down by inane Internet drama. Y'know... anymore than necessary to deal with Dickface, at least.

No ferrets, no kittens, no fighting. Just some asshole getting picked apart while we wait for him to get his much deserved comeuppins.

[TCJohnson]

Aren't we supposed to talk about geeky, sci fi stuff in this forum?

http://www.mycathatesyou.com/images/cats/2006/12/baxxil.jpg

[Corrina]

I'd go with henchman. :)

No, no, no. "Henchman" is gender-specific. "Minion" is gender-neutral.

Get with the program, you misogymous male! Yeesh. :D

[TCJohnson]

If he ever makes it into court, this is the expression I expect Rick Olney to have:

http://www.mycathatesyou.com/images/cats/2006/12/bill2.jpg

Actually, I expect him to have the hat as well.

[JTPencils]

I'm only doin' this once folks... but I couldn't resist...

http://www.thecatgallery.com/images/four-cute-kittens.jpg

[TCJohnson]

Never has a cat been this angry:

http://www.mycathatesyou.com/images/cats/2006/12/chompers.jpg

[NatGertler]

Rick! We all know you do not have a lawyer because any real lawyer would have told you to stop emailing people directly a looooooong time ago!Would you folks please stop trying to goad him into revealing the name of his lawyer? Haven't you ever heard of lawyer/client confidentiality?!?

small grin

[Mike Bullock]

Every few pages or so, can some one post a summary of links to the efforts to summarize the latest events in Olney-gate?

I'll be watching for it with Camry.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h247/Runemaster_Studios/kitty.jpg

[THEDOC]

This what happened between me and my cat:

http://www.inter-fan.org/Art/Billthecat.JPG

[AIPman1]

Sorry Ian, was just trying to get background as the article WILL be about the book and it's origins and I feel that "Rick" is part of that as I said in my e-mail. I will do what I can not to have him involved but I felt people who don't read this thread as stranmge as that may seem, may have contact with him and get sucked up in his game. .

Directing people here to read more is one thing. And we probably can't do the article without his name being mentioned, but, It really only has to be periphery, and the article can focus on goals and positives, and the people involved. They need the publicity, Rick does not. I just want to make sure the focus is right, rehashing the problem does nothing, but getting the public interested in the Anthology so it does well when it goes on sale...that does alot. The CONTENT and chairity are the story.

[TCJohnson]

http://www.mycathatesyou.com/images/cats/2006/10/tiny_teeny.jpg

[TomStillwell]

Nah, let's boot the kittens there, too. Moderation ethics, clique rivalry bullshit, kittens and my incredibly heavy, sharp shovel can all get their own thread so this one doesn't get bogged down by inane Internet drama. Y'know... anymore than necessary to deal with Dickface, at least.

No ferrets, no kittens, no fighting. Just some asshole getting picked apart while we wait for him to get his much deserved comeuppins.

What about my ceaseless Honor Brigade whoring?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a309/Zapow21/HB%20Pictures/TBHA.jpg

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

No, no, no. "Henchman" is gender-specific. "Minion" is gender-neutral.

Get with the program, you misogymous male! Yeesh. :D

How about toady? Lacky? Bootlick?

[Jack Zodiac]

Anything involving Toyboy touching himself is fair play.

[THEDOC]

Directing people here to read more is one thing. And we probably can't do the article without his name being mentioned, but, It really only has to be periphery, and the article can focus on goals and positives, and the people involved. They need the publicity, Rick does not. I just want to make sure the focus is right, rehashing the problem does nothing, but getting the public interested in the Anthology so it does well when it goes on sale...that does alot. The CONTENT and chairity are the story.

I understand that Ian.
I have already contacted one of the people behind "Unscrewed" to get the background and such. As this is a new project things might change before the solicitaions go out (in the Summer?) so maybe we should have this published at the same time so we can sell at the various Summercons.

[khuxford]

Directing people here to read more is one thing. And we probably can't do the article without his name being mentioned, but, It really only has to be periphery, and the article can focus on goals and positives, and the people involved. They need the publicity, Rick does not. I just want to make sure the focus is right, rehashing the problem does nothing, but getting the public interested in the Anthology so it does well when it goes on sale...that does alot. The CONTENT and chairity are the story.

Not to get in the middle of your conversation here, but honestly? Knowing that many of the involved and the people who will hopefully be reaping whatever profits the project makes were screwed over 10,493,875 kinds of ways by Rick Olney is the biggest motivation for me to buy the book. Preview art, a plot synopsis here and there, or a list of the people involved...none of this gets me any more interested than the soap drama that led to it.

[JTPencils]

Would you folks please stop trying to goad him into revealing the name of his lawyer? Haven't you ever heard of lawyer/client confidentiality?!?

small grin

Nat, in fact, it's SO confidential... Rick's lawyer doesn't even know he's Rick's lawyer. Now that's just sneaky.

(actually, I see the case going more like this...)

Judge peering over his spectacles...
"Mr Olney, would you please stop ranting and raving like a lunatic, the court has already found in favor of the plantiffs, you owe more money then you'll ever see in your lifetime, you'll probably end up dumpster diving for your next Happy Meal, and quite frankly, you are your own worst enemy by representing yourself. If it weren't for the desire for expediency, I'd find you out of order...

R.O. "No no no your honor, YOU'RE outta order, the JURY'S outta order (even though no jury in small claims court), the whole SYSTEM'S outta order... HOORAH!!!..." (as you can see, the idiot's been studying up on his closing remarks by Betamax)


(why is it I have this real dread that my next email contact will be from "Richard "yer gonna get yers" Olney Att. At Law (and world reknown philanthropist and almost comics publisher)@nutzo.com)

[J. Morgan (Bat) Neal]

Kittens are great but so are....PUPPIES!

http://nuclear.ucdavis.edu/~rpicha/sample/puppies.jpg