Three little words

[blackphoenix]

So...what the hell were the three words that Superman was supposed to hear this year that would change everything? Did this ever happen?

[MaxofSteel]

:confused: When/where was this said?

[blackphoenix]

In Wizard last year, in the 2006 preview, i believe. They said he would hear three little words that would change his life. Maybe it never happened?

[AaronJ]

Superman #652 (Part 5 of "Up, Up, and Away")

LOIS (upon learning from Clark that his powers have returned): I've got three words for you, Smallville. Just three little words. Clark ... GO GET 'EM.

Then, she pulls his Superman outfit out of the closet.

[MaxofSteel]

Superman #652 (Part 5 of "Up, Up, and Away")

LOIS (upon learning from Clark that his powers have returned): I've got three words for you, Smallville. Just three little words. Clark ... GO GET 'EM.

Then, she pulls his Superman outfit out of the closet.

Ooooooh. Nifty.:D

[Kilgore Trout]

Superman #652 (Part 5 of "Up, Up, and Away")

LOIS (upon learning from Clark that his powers have returned): I've got three words for you, Smallville. Just three little words. Clark ... GO GET 'EM.

Then, she pulls his Superman outfit out of the closet.

Uh wow... how underwhelming...

Reminds me of R2K... Remember: "The BIG LIE and how it changes Superman FOREVER!"

Yeah me too... :rolleyes:

"Go get 'em" is what I say to my dog.

[AaronJ]

In the context of the story, it was quite cool. A very Lois moment.

[Sean Whitmore]

Not that "go get 'em" is a bad line or anything, it's just...odd...that DC felt they were strong enough to hype in advance.

Frankly, if someone hadn't mentioned it in one of the "Up, Up, and Away" threads, I probably wouldn't have realized those were the words in question.


SEAN

[PatrickG]

Uh wow... how underwhelming...

Reminds me of R2K... Remember: "The BIG LIE and how it changes Superman FOREVER!"


To be fair, Kilgore, we know now from multiple sources that it was SUPPOSED to change everything forever and that forces outside Berganza's office had cold feet and went on a five year rebooting spree with Superman's history.

[AaronJ]

Not that "go get 'em" is a bad line or anything, it's just...odd...that DC felt they were strong enough to hype in advance.

Frankly, if someone hadn't mentioned it in one of the "Up, Up, and Away" threads, I probably wouldn't have realized those were the words in question.


SEAN

Well, like I said: it's a question of context. Very few lines are worth much when taken out of context. Maybe Hemingway's six-words story is the best example of something that can be amazing, and have no context at all:

"For Sale: Baby shoes. Never used."

But, that's Papa for ya.

Anyhow, within the context of the story, their importance and coolness is clear. Clark had grown accustomed to being without his powers. So had Lois. Thus, when Clark thinks that those powers have returned, it means a BIG change in his and Lois' life.

He is reluctant to discuss it with her, because he doesn't even know quite how he feels about it, let alone how Lois react.

As they discuss it, it looks like Lois isn't sure what to think. Then she puts her hand up as she is walking into the bedroom, and says "STOP. Just -- stop talking a minute. I need a to --" and it looks like she is either unhappy or angry.

Then the "I've got three words for you, Smallville. Just three little words. Clark .. GO GET 'EM." line happens, as she pulls out his costume. She has this very proud smile on her face.

Clark thinks "That's my Lois. Always surprising me."

It's really a great little scene. And we knew that Clark would be back as Superman. But how it would happen, and, more importantly, how it would affect the marriage, and be taken by Lois, were still mysteries. So, it's a touching little scene. And, like I said, a great Lois moment.

[Sean Whitmore]

To be fair, Kilgore, we know now from multiple sources that it was SUPPOSED to change everything forever and that forces outside Berganza's office had cold feet

That makes a lot more sense.


SEAN

[Kilgore Trout]

Anyhow, within the context of the story, their importance and coolness is clear. Clark had grown accustomed to being without his powers. So had Lois. Thus, when Clark thinks that those powers have returned, it means a BIG change in his and Lois' life.

He is reluctant to discuss it with her, because he doesn't even know quite how he feels about it, let alone how Lois react.

As they discuss it, it looks like Lois isn't sure what to think. Then she puts her hand up as she is walking into the bedroom, and says "STOP. Just -- stop talking a minute. I need a to --" and it looks like she is either unhappy or angry.

Then the "I've got three words for you, Smallville. Just three little words. Clark .. GO GET 'EM." line happens, as she pulls out his costume. She has this very proud smile on her face.

Clark thinks "That's my Lois. Always surprising me."

It's really a great little scene.

AND it only took Busiek 5 issues to tell it...

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The above adeptly (:)) described scene is exactly THE thing I could care less about in Superman comics...

Go get 'em CLARK... {gush}

Its just more of Superman the romance comic instead of the ADVENTURES of Superman...

Why not just call it Smallville now and get it over with?

UP, UP, and AWAY was a pedestrian story that broke no new ground, reinforced all the WRONG things about Superman, and could have been written any time in the last 10 years...

It didn't need the IC and doesn't seem to have made any particular use of it...

[AaronJ]

UP, UP, and AWAY was a pedestrian story that broke no new ground, reinforced all the WRONG things about Superman, and could have been written any time in the last 10 years...

It didn't need the IC and doesn't seem to have made any particular use of it...

I liked it. And I believe there is room to tell all sorts of stories about Superman, considering he has four books, plus Superman/Batman, and appears in a host of others, on top of being a main character in Justice League of America.

Superman is not underexposed. And there are a ton of tales to tell.

I also disagree with it reinforcing things that "wrong" about Superman. It was a very strong re-start for him, after IC.

Finally, it was a great Lois moment, as I said. And I am always happy to see those.

[AaronJ]

Double post.

These damned interweb tubes are not working right!

[Kurt Busiek]

In Wizard last year, in the 2006 preview, i believe. They said he would hear three little words that would change his life.

Actually, we said that three unexpected words would mark a turning point for Clark and Lois. Which they did.

Someone paraphrased it on the 'net as three little words that would change Superman's life forever, and dozens if not hundreds of people expected it to be a pregnancy announcement. Which ain't what we said and would fail the "unexpected" text, to boot.

kdb

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I prefered The Doctor's six little words that took down the British Prime Minister myself, but "Go get 'em!" worked very well for me as it established the relationship between Lois & Clark very clearly for this new Superman era.

[The Shadow]

UP, UP, and AWAY was a pedestrian story that broke no new ground
not every story has to be some groundbreaking HUGE mega event that changes everything for years to come by breaking new ground.

How much freedom do you think DC gives writers with SUPERMAN? He's the big fish in the little pond... no way DC lets ANYONE go hog wild.

Perhaps Kurt Busiek can answer this... did DC give you a list of Do's and Don't with Superman? Were you told what was and was not acceptable etc.?

reinforced all the WRONG things about Superman
Such as?

I thought it was entertaining.

[Jack Zodiac]

Such as?

Clark Kent being a character himself. :p

I loved "Up, Up, and Away," especially because of the characterization given to Clark, but Kilgore doesn't seem to enjoy it when both halves of Superman get equal attention. Also, everything's "pedestrian." Like Superman stories for the past decade haven't been and Kurt's pace of telling good stories that don't necessarily have to impact the way we think about the character for all time is a bad thing. It's the constant redefinition of the character that kills a book. Exhibit A, "Superman Red and Blue."

[jaguarshark]

Like Superman stories for the past decade haven't been and Kurt's pace of telling good stories that don't necessarily have to impact the way we think about the character for all time is a bad thing. It's the constant redefinition of the character that kills a book. Exhibit A, "Superman Red and Blue."

After roughly 70 years worth of Superman, I agree that it's a good thing to be able to tell stories that don't necessarily try to reinvent the wheel, but are just damn good stories, period. My favourite issue from Kurt's run is still the first post-'Up, Up and Away' issue, which is basically just a day in the life of Superman.

Not that 'life-changing' stories have to be bad, either, of course... I'm enjoying the hell out of Donner/Johns/Kubert's Action run, for example.

[Sean Whitmore]

P, UP, and AWAY was a pedestrian story that broke no new ground, reinforced all the WRONG things about Superman, and could have been written any time in the last 10 years...

So you're saying it had a timeless quality about it? Good review, I concur. :)


SEAN

[The Shadow]

Kilgore doesn't seem to enjoy it when both halves of Superman get equal attention. Also, everything's "pedestrian." Like Superman stories for the past decade haven't been and Kurt's pace of telling good stories that don't necessarily have to impact the way we think about the character for all time is a bad thing. It's the constant redefinition of the character that kills a book. Exhibit A, "Superman Red and Blue."

Ah!

Gota ya! He's crazy. ;)

I agree with jaguarshark's comment that "it's a good thing to be able to tell stories that don't necessarily try to reinvent the wheel, but are just damn good stories, period."

I think that describes Dini's run on Detective and why it's been so enjoyable for me. He's not trying to force anything and isn't trying to cram too many villains in a story (Hush), make lame Punisher-wannabe's relevant (Winick), force dumbass characters down our throats (Lieberman) and utterly re-write characters and events to make a story fit (Morrison).

And TOTALLY agree with Sean that it does indeed have a timeless feel about it. I hate it when stories get pigeon-holed into mega events whe sometimes simplicity is just as enjoyable.

[AaronJ]

I think that describes Dini's run on Detective and why it's been so enjoyable for me. He's not trying to force anything and isn't trying to cram too many villains in a story (Hush), make lame Punisher-wannabe's relevant (Winick), force dumbass characters down our throats (Lieberman) and utterly re-write characters and events to make a story fit (Morrison).

Now, not to pick on you, Shadow, but this is what really bothers me about discussions on comics boards.

You like Dini's Detective. Why not just say that? Instead, it somehow becomes necessary to try and trash Jeph Loeb, Judd Winick, Grant Morrison, and AJ Lieberman, all in an attempt to buttress your claim that Dini is doing a good job.

And it doesn't help you make your point. It actually hinders it. If someone is a Grant Morrison fan, he is going to come away from reading your post with only one thought "He was trashing Grant Morrison." The whole "Dini's Detective rocks" aspect of your post will be lost. The same for anyone who likes those other writers, characters, or whatever else you were targeting.

I don't know. Maybe I'm just touchy tonight.

[The Shadow]

You like Dini's Detective. Why not just say that? Instead, it somehow becomes necessary to try and trash Jeph Loeb, Judd Winick, Grant Morrison, and AJ Lieberman, all in an attempt to buttress your claim that Dini is doing a good job.

And it doesn't help you make your point. It actually hinders it. If someone is a Grant Morrison fan, he is going to come away from reading your post with only one thought "He was trashing Grant Morrison." The whole "Dini's Detective rocks" aspect of your post will be lost. The same for anyone who likes those other writers, characters, or whatever else you were targeting.
Fair point... allow me to rebut!

If I just said "Dini is better than Morrison!" and left it at that I think you'd have a point... but I explained why I prefer Dini's simpler stories by giving examples of stories I don't like and explaining why I didn't like them and instead prefer Doni's simplicity. It's sort of comparing and contrasting them. I'm not trashing anyone... just stating why I like Dini's take better.

The flip side too is a Morrison fan who might not be reading Dini could be intriged at the potential for a simpler Batman story because, as we all know, Grant doesn't do simple too often.

And MAYBE you are just a tad touchy tonight ;) :p

[AaronJ]

OK, fair enough.

But you spent an entire paragraph explaining what Dini *wasn't* doing, as opposed to what everyone else was. You could have talked about why Dini is the man, not in opposition to anyone else, but just on his own.

Really, you made a fair point, and I am being way too over-sensitive, I think.

But it just strikes me that I read a lot of comments like "X is awesome, not like Y which totally sucks for these 2,000 enumerated reasons!" And it ends up being way more about why Y sucks than it is about why X rocks.

But, get me started on Heinberg's "re-launch" of Wonder Woman, and I am just as bad if not worse, so maybe I should shut up, eh? :)

Anyway, I get it. And I understand your feelings on the books. Didn't mean to pick on you, really.

[The Shadow]

You could have talked about why Dini is the man
I did... but his take is so simple it didn't require more than a sentence ;)

Didn't mean to pick on you, really.
No worries... I'm just wondering why you're stalking me from board to board :p

It really takes a lot to get me mad or upset... and you were nice about it and not accusational.

[AaronJ]

I did... but his take is so simple it didn't require more than a sentence ;)


No worries... I'm just wondering why you're stalking me from board to board :p

It really takes a lot to get me mad or upset... and you were nice about it and not accusational.

I'm not. We just happened to be posting in the same threads on different boards. I didn't even realize it was the same person until I posted this second message. :)

[The Shadow]

But, get me started on Heinberg's "re-launch" of Wonder Woman, and I am just as bad if not worse, so maybe I should shut up, eh? :)

Forgot to add that I prefer Rucka, Perez, Byrne, Messer-Loeb (WAY underrated!) and Jiminez's version compared to the mediocre (at best) stuff Heinberg is giving us.

[AaronJ]

Forgot to add that I prefer Rucka, Perez, Byrne, Messer-Loeb (WAY underrated!) and Jiminez's version compared to the mediocre (at best) stuff Heinberg is giving us.

Couldn't agree more.

And calling Heinberg's corporate-mandated arc "mediocre" is really generous. Anyway, interesting discussion.

[The Shadow]

I didn't even realize it was the same person until I posted this second message.

Most people gert confused at the different avatar's. mine here is more representational of the Shadow name... the other is because I think Monica Belluchi is hot!

[AaronJ]

Most people gert confused at the different avatar's. mine here is more representational of the Shadow name... the other is because I think Monica Belluchi is hot!

There are megabytes on my harddrive attesting to that very fact.

[Apathy Boy]

I think that describes Dini's run on Detective and why it's been so enjoyable for me. He's not trying to force anything and isn't trying to cram too many villains in a story (Hush), make lame Punisher-wannabe's relevant (Winick), force dumbass characters down our throats (Lieberman) and utterly re-write characters and events to make a story fit (Morrison).To be fair, Dini has done fairly extensive re-writes on the Riddler.

Anyway, the "three little words" were a great dramatic moment. It's a shame DC's marketing department hyped the moment so much that it failed to live up to expectations. I wish comic promoters would wise up to the fact that overhyping events just winds up disappointing their readers.

[AaronJ]

To be fair, Dini has done fairly extensive re-writes on the Riddler.

Anyway, the "three little words" were a great dramatic moment. It's a shame DC's marketing department hyped the moment so much that it failed to live up to expectations. I wish comic promoters would wise up to the fact that overhyping events just winds up disappointing their readers.

Look at Kurt Busiek's post earlier in the thread.

I don't think it was over-hyped at all. I think fans ended up reading all sorts of stuff into it, which made it grow and grow, and instead of sticking to original comment, they went way out on all sorts of limbs.

[Trademark]

It was a lot of hype for something that ended being exactly like the final line in Spider-man II.

[The Shadow]

To be fair, Dini has done fairly extensive re-writes on the Riddler.

Yeah but it's One Year Later. And there's the retcon punch not taken into account ;)

And I wouldn't say extensive... he just took away the knowledge that Batman and Bruce are the same guy and made him go semi-legit.

[The Shadow]

I don't think it was over-hyped at all. I think fans ended up reading all sorts of stuff into it, which made it grow and grow, and instead of sticking to original comment, they went way out on all sorts of limbs.

I'll be honest... I don't read too much news, speculation or solicits... this thread is the first time I've ever even heard of it! LOL

[Kilgore Trout]

Look at Kurt Busiek's post earlier in the thread.
I don't think it was over-hyped at all. I think fans ended up reading all sorts of stuff into it, which made it grow and grow, and instead of sticking to original comment, they went way out on all sorts of limbs.

Yeah, those stupid fans!

Everyone knows that DC never over-hypes anything; it has to be all those stupid fans that climb out on limbs and invent stuff!

Fans didn't invent or make up the IC...

It was advertised as a MEGA event by DC, not by fans...

Just as UP, UP & AWAY was sold as a post-post IC reintroduction of Superman...

Maybe I was wrong but I thought it was the whole purpose behind the IC...

It was a Superman-centric story...

DC trotted out the Golden-Age Superman and went to great lengths to show the differences in the characters... The GA Superman actually cited the current Superman's weak mojo as the reason for the disasters that had befallen the DCU...

Batman came out of it noticeably different...

I’m sure we’ll be able to tell the differences between the Pre & Post IC Wonder Woman when she makes her return...

So, yeah, I expected that there would be noticeable differences between the Pre & Post IC Superman...

So, what are they?

[The Shadow]

Yeah, those stupid fans! /snip/
So, what are they?

I'm still waiting for you to answer what you meant by this:
reinforced all the WRONG things about Superman
Such as?

[Kurt Busiek]

Perhaps Kurt Busiek can answer this... did DC give you a list of Do's and Don't with Superman? Were you told what was and was not acceptable etc.?

Nope.

It's not necessary to have a list of rules, since we have editors to interact with, and if we start going off the rails, they can say "uh, no, let's not do that," rather than laying it all out beforehand. After all, what if we come up with a cool idea for something that might have been on the "don't do that" list, and they decide that sure, let's do that?

On the other hand, we haven't pitched anything that they've told us was a "can't do" story. There's plenty of stuff coming up that had to be approved at reasonably high levels, but so far it's either been approved or we're still waiting to hear.

kdb

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm still waiting for you to answer what you meant by this: Such as?

1. The marriage.

2 The idea that Superman is just a spandex suit Clark puts on to fight crime.

3. The blurred line between Clark and Kal-El making the only difference the glasses.

3. Ma & Pa alive and well offerin' up that home-spun midwestern wisdom.

4. The whole Smallville infection that seems to have taken over the books.

One of the key subplots throughout the history of Superman comics was the long-standing courtship between Lois and Clark and Superman…

On one level, it was just a simple love story. However, by drawing forth the tension between Lois's love for Superman and Clark Kent’s love for Lois, it caused Superman to constantly ask a question that is central to his whole double identity: "Who am I really, Clark or Superman?"

By having Lois and Clark married, DC cheapened this dramatic tension and ultimately rendered it moot. Now there is no division between Clark and Superman. They truly are one in the same.

Many people here hail this as a great example of character growth, and in many ways it might have been. But that's not what happened.

IMO, It has caused Superman to stop growing. There is nowhere else that Superman can go in terms of character growth without further cheapening his core character.

Many great characters are defined as those who "are beset by problems but rise above them." Superman, however, is not among these. He is not someone that you feel superior to; he is not a "hard luck" case with "personal problems" who never gets a break; Superman is a wish-fulfillment projection, an ideal.

This is why the Clark Kent disguise is so important. He IS supposed to be the hard luck guy, the one that never gets a break. Superman isn't supposed to be identifiable; that's what Clark Kent is for.

It doesn't matter what the answer to the question "who is real - Superman or Clark Kent?" What does matter, though, is that who Clark Kent is, is a nebbish, dismissable nerd.

In fact, the central theme of Superman's existence is that he is a great, principled superhero, whose disguise is mildmannered and easy to ignore. Eliminate this, or blur the line between the confident, fearless Superman and the nebbish Kent, and the character no longer has a purpose to exist.

I firmly believe that Superman should at one point have been Superboy, and that Superman is more effective if he sports a high power level because it makes stories possible. But while these help, and any version of Superman that sports them is better off than one without it, Superman does not NEED them; the movie version of Superman captured his character very well, but did not have a Superboy, and the animated show had a Superman that was mortal enough that he was more than a little tickled by high voltage, but they too, grasped the character.

All this stems from a fundamental misunderstanding about the role that Smallville and the Kents play in the Superman story. The purpose of Smallville, and the Kents, is not to create Kal-El's character or define who Superman is. The purpose of Smallville is to provide anonymity, what Elliot S! Maggin called "a womb to develop his powers." If Superman were to have been raised in Alaska or the middle of the Mojave, Smallville would provide the same function and fulfill the same role.

I find all that missing in Busieks MOST ordinary Superman... His Superman is John Byrnes Superman...

Again, what's new or even different about Busiek's Superman save all the verbal/observational gibberish he adds to pad out the TPB version?

[blackphoenix]

Ah. Alrighty then. Thanks for clearing that up Mr. Busiek.

[J. Robb]

The only thing I found a little disappointing about "Up, Up and Away" was that it was eight-issues long and yet didn't find room to fit in an explanation as to why Superman's powers came back or why they were now causing electrical problems. And we've had several issues since, with only occasional reference to the problem. You'd think malfunctioning powers would rate pretty high on Superman's "things-to-check-out" list.

(And also that Krypton has randomly changed again. But I guess I'm getting used to that. Maybe they should reveal Krypton is in the 5th dimension. ;) )

[dupersuper]

I like that we can choose...
married Supes in the current cannon books

Supes-Clark-Lois triangle in the movies, most tv versions, All-Star, Timmverse, etc.

Young Clark where it's not yet a factor either way in Smallville and Legion of Superheroes

Pick your poison folks! (or do what I do, and just keep 'em all...)