How many superheroes in the Marvel universe would you like to be gay?

[ProfeZZor X]

Seeing there's a demand for more gay characters in the Marvel universe, it seems natural that more should be created, or at least come "out of the closet".

Personally, I'm good with whoever has already made it known to the world.

[Mikl C]

None! God gay people are SO annoying!

[Sam T.]

I read comic books to escape!

[That JonoGuy]

I read comic books to escape!

Well its a good thing then. You can escape your straight lifestyle for a gay one. :D

[Omega Alpha]

No, ProfeZZor X, you're not obsessed with homossexuality, at all. Beast is just messing with you for no reason:rolleyes:

[Polarity]

How many are there anyway? Northstar, Anole, Hector, Wiccan, Hulkling
And characters shouldn't be created to attain a certain number of characters of this or that nature. (that doesn't make much sense).

[Christopher O]

I read comic books to escape!
Homophobic much?

[That JonoGuy]

Oh, and i voted 30 or more. Anything to get the homophobes all riled up.

[Joe Rice]

I want them all to come out of the closet. They're not fooling anyone.

[The Lucky One]

How many are there anyway? Northstar, Anole, Hector, Wiccan, Hulkling
And characters shouldn't be created to attain a certain number of characters of this or that nature. (that doesn't make much sense).

Don't forget Mystique (bisexual) and Destiny. And possibly Shatterstar.

-D

[The M.E.]

37....

:)

Just kidding. Seriously, as a gay comics lover myself (just realized that can be taken several ways, lol), I don't necessarily want the writers to get together and go "hey we need more gay characters, has Dr. Demonicus ever had a girlfriend?" It can totally feel forced and unnecessary. But i do think there's a need for more gay characters, who are written as well-rounded people with interests and personalities. I love Wiccan and Hulkling, but it's got alot to do with how they're written. They're multi-faceted characters and interesting for alot of reasons, not JUST because they're gay. I think Rictor's history makes sense and his bisexuality adds something to PAD's portrayal of his character. But if Hawkeye, lets say, all of a sudden came out of the closet, I'd be like "huh?" Long story short (too late for that i know :) ), I think for gay and straight fans alike to benefit and relate to it, it can't just be "we need more gays, who can we make gay". It needs to be character driven and well-written.

God can I shut up already? Looks like Darker_Phoenix was right ;)

[ProfeZZor X]

No, ProfeZZor X, you're not obsessed with homossexuality, at all. Beast is just messing with you for no reason:rolleyes:


I know he is... I've made my peace with his tenacious ways. And it doesn't bother me at all. I just thought I'd take a different approach to the question, since everyone seems to ask the wrong question, which is:

"Who is gay?"

The real question for the ones concerned is: "How many do you want?"

[Beast]

I read comic books to escape!
So gay people are so horrible that you need to flee them to somewhere they don't exist. :confused:

[Sam T.]

Homophobic much?



Your throwing that word around alot.

[rilokyle]

I think every superhero should be gay. Every last one. And some of the villains too.

[Beast]

I know he is... I've made my peace with his tenacious ways. And it doesn't taunting doesn't bother me at all. I just thought I'd take a different approach to the question, since everyone seems to ask the wrong question, which is:

"Who is gay?"

The real question for the ones concerned is: "How many do you want?"
Riiiiiight. That's why you felt the need to start a thread discussing it. Gotcha. :D

[Polarity]

Don't forget Mystique (bisexual) and Destiny. And possibly Shatterstar.

-D

I never got that. (Although I can see how it could be read that way, and how it would make sense for Mystique to be bi) I just never read it like that. In all appearences (even with Irene) I never saw any subtext pointing to that.

But besides those I mentioned, plus Living Ligtning from the Avengers West Coast and the bi's (Rictor, Mystique, Destiny) who else is there?

Rawhide Kid

[Effect]

Why gay? Just make characters bi and justify the relationships or pairings. Why limit yourself?

[Faded]

However many it takes to drive out all the homophobic fanboys. :rolleyes:

[Beast]

You honestly missed Mystique being bisexual and the life partner of Destiny? How? Sure it wasn't confirmed until years later, but it was hinted at enough times well before Marvel would allow them to confirm it. :)

[Faded]

Your throwing that word around alot.

If the pitchfork fits...

[Polarity]

You honestly missed Mystique being bisexual and the life partner of Destiny? How? Sure it wasn't confirmed until years later, but it was hinted at enough times well before Marvel would allow them to confirm it. :)

I always though she was more into Forge.

[Sam T.]

Mystique is very confused. She seems to be into alot of people!

[Omega Alpha]

Don't forget Mystique (bisexual) and Destiny. And possibly Shatterstar.

-D

And Rictor is bi too, seems like. Living Lighting is gay too.

And nearly every female when written by Chris Claremont. :D

[Beast]

Mystique is very confused. She seems to be into alot of people!
Especially when she turns into a guy. ;) :D

[ProfeZZor X]

Riiiiiight. That's why you felt the need to start a thread discussing it. Gotcha. :D

There's no appeasing the gay community... is there?

[Sam T.]

There's no appeasing the gay community... is there?


I guess not!

[Joe Rice]

Did you really think this would "appease" anyone? Have you that little social knowledge?

And Sam, you appear to have said that you read comics to escape, you don't want gays in there . . .so the implication is that you want to escape from gay people. Is that true?

[Brian M.]

Simple. Since most Marvel Comics take place in the United States you take the % of people in the US who are homosexual and you apply that same % to the number of heros/mutants/villians/whatever and that is how many there should be.

If say 10% of the American Population is gay than 10% of the characters in Marvel Comics should be gay.

[Sam T.]

Did you really think this would "appease" anyone? Have you that little social knowledge?

And Sam, you appear to have said that you read comics to escape, you don't want gays in there . . .so the implication is that you want to escape from gay people. Is that true?


Not true at all. but if a character has never been gay before...why start now??

[Shellhead]

There are a lot more villains in general than heroes, so there should be a lot more gay villains than gay heroes. Which villains are known to be gay?

[Hi-Fi]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning
Mystique
Bling!


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.

[Joe Rice]

Not true at all. but if a character has never been gay before...why start now??


Cool, I hoped that wasn't what you meant. Communication online is even trickier than with my wife.

I say, if a writer's got a good story, make anybody gay. It's not like there's no deeply closeted folks out there.

[Beast]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.
Mystique. ;)

[Hi-Fi]

Mystique. ;)

Included now along with Bling.

[Beast]

Not true at all. but if a character has never been gay before...why start now??
What about ambigious characters. Like... oh, I don't know... Iceman?

[Beast]

Included now along with Bling.
Here's a good list for both Marvel and DC...

http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/index.php

[Sam T.]

What about ambigious characters. Like... oh, I don't know... Iceman?

If it is ever proven that he is gay...!

[Polarity]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Luna


Luna? Who is he/she? The only Luna I know is Pietro's and Crystal's daughter. Is she gay????????

Also I searched on wikipedia for Blinspot and it said she is dead.

[Hi-Fi]

Luna? Who is he/she? The only Luna I know is Pietro's and Crystal's daughter. Is she gay????????

Also I searched on wikipedia for Blinspot and it said she is dead.

Luna is the human waitress from New X-Men. Blindspot can't be dead. She only appeared in the Rogue series and was alive when it was cancelled. :confused:

[Polarity]

Here's a good list for both Marvel and DC...

http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/index.php

That list has tons of characters I don't know. And it says Atlas (MARVEL), which I think is Atlas from Thunderbolts is transgendered (wtf?!?!?!?!?!?)

[Polarity]

Luna is the human waitress from New X-Men. Blindspot can't be dead. She only appeared in the Rogue series and was alive when it was cancelled. :confused:

I'm sorry I must have confused that with some other wiki page I was reading.

I've never read New X-men.

:p

[The Lucky One]

I never got that. (Although I can see how it could be read that way, and how it would make sense for Mystique to be bi) I just never read it like that. In all appearences (even with Irene) I never saw any subtext pointing to that.

Depends, I guess, on how much you factor in writer intent vs. established continuity. Claremont has said he always intended Mytique to be Nightcrawler's father and Destiny his mother, but editorial shot down the idea... still, the fact that it wasn't published doesn't change the fact that it's what their creator intended. And there was that UXM issue where Mystique said, "Irene, is everything okay? You had a pretty rough night last night." That certainly doesn't prove they sleep in the same bed by any means, but it sort of points in that direction.

-D

[The Lucky One]

What about ambigious characters. Like... oh, I don't know... Iceman?

I think they just mean actually gay, not "some fans really, really wish they were gay."
:rolleyes:

-D

[Omega Alpha]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning
Mystique
Bling!


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.

Moondragon and Phila-Vell.

[ProfeZZor X]

Did you really think this would "appease" anyone? Have you that little social knowledge?

And Sam, you appear to have said that you read comics to escape, you don't want gays in there . . .so the implication is that you want to escape from gay people. Is that true?


Why do I need to be "in touch" with the gay community? I live in Los Angeles. There are plenty of professional industries that people interact with on a daily basis that encounter a homosexual person... Mainly retail.

[Beast]

Depends, I guess, on how much you factor in writer intent vs. established continuity. Claremont has said he always intended Mytique to be Nightcrawler's father and Destiny his mother, but editorial shot down the idea... still, the fact that it wasn't published doesn't change the fact that it's what their creator intended. And there was that UXM issue where Mystique said, "Irene, is everything okay? You had a pretty rough night last night." That certainly doesn't prove they sleep in the same bed by any means, but it sort of points in that direction.

-D
It was actually confirmed a few times well after that though, when Marvel wasn't so unwilling to allow gay or bisexual characters in their books. Plus CC snuck it past a couple times. Such as the Shadow King in Uncanny X-Men #265 was the first to confirm their relationship for readers who knew what they were looking for. But X-Treme X-Men referred to Destiny as Mystique's lover several times. This is a bit out of date, but it covers it. :)
Unofficial, but well accepted, was the Mystique-Destiny relationship. Marvel tried not to admit it, but Claremont did, and enough in-comic evidence exists to be certain on that score. For years, the most definitive evidence was UXM #254. In it, Irene said, "This is Raven as I know her, the spirit-soul within my dearest friend--full of strength and courage and passion--that I have loved from the moment we met." Later, Mystique said, "Irenie? You had a rough night..is anything the matter?" You can work it out for herself how Mystique would know that. In UXM #265, the Shadow King referred to Destiny as Mystique's leman--an archaic word meaning "lover"--which Chris Claremont seemed to have sneaked in under the censors' radar. As of the X-Men Forever miniseries (2001), the two are officially out of the closet, since the recap in issue #5 clearly states that Irene was Raven's lover. X-Treme X-Men #1 concurs; Mystique is referred to as Destiny's "true love." Raven has had two children, of course, so there's strong evidence that she could be bisexual. She was a member of X-Factor, so she technically counts as an X-Man.

[Jack Flash]

Your throwing that word around alot.

if the pumps (or posts) fit.....

[Beast]

Why do I need to be "in touch" with the gay community? I live in Los Angeles. There are plenty of professional industries that people interact with on a daily basis... Mainly retail.
Whooop! Whooop! Stereotype Alert!!

[Brian M.]

Ok lets not get down into name calling folks.

[Dizzy D]

That list has tons of characters I don't know. And it says Atlas (MARVEL), which I think is Atlas from Thunderbolts is transgendered (wtf?!?!?!?!?!?)

They apparently haven't updated in a while, but Atlas' body was destroyed for a while and he merged with Dallas Riordan. They later seperated and Atlas'male body was restored.

I do find it funny that they claim Mephisto as bisexual.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Just a few well writen ones. Making everyone gay would be stupid IMO.

[Pro]

I read comic books to escape!

It sounds like you're swimming in gay people if you need comics to escape from them ..

I voted 30 or more, considering at least 5-10% of people is gay/bi the percentages in comics are woefully off-scale.

[jmc247]

It seems like 90% of Marvel characters today are gay.

oh, you mean homosexual.

[ProfeZZor X]

Whooop! Whooop! Stereotype Alert!!

"Plenty of professional industries" is not stereotyping. Even when I mentioned the retail industry. Of course there are thousands of industries gays share with the hetrosexual community, but seeing that retail makes up for 70% of the work force, that "stereotype" shouldn't be all that unreasonale of a statement.

... I mean how the hell can someone be "politically correct" if there is no basis in which a group of people preside?

[Mystique25]

I think every superhero should be gay. Every last one. And some of the villains too.

We can have every super hero be gay, and then have all the villians be homophobic, so the sole reason they need to attack them is for being gay.:D

[Mystique25]

It was actually confirmed a few times well after that though, when Marvel wasn't so unwilling to allow gay or bisexual characters in their books. Plus CC snuck it past a couple times. Such as the Shadow King in Uncanny X-Men #265 was the first to confirm their relationship for readers who knew what they were looking for. But X-Treme X-Men referred to Destiny as Mystique's lover several times. This is a bit out of date, but it covers it. :)

I also remember a page in X-men unlimited #4, where Raven says something like Irene was the only person I ever loved. It was the issue from the 90's wit Mystique, Nightcrawler, and Rogue on the cover.

[Nyssane]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning
Mystique
Bling!


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.

How could you forget the most fabulous gay hero of them all -- FLATMAN? Seriously, I love the guy.

Karma definitely needs to come back, I loved her during New X-Men.

I voted 30 or more. And I think they should make other characters like Cyclops, Hulk, and Captain Ameirca gay.

[Beast]

We can have every super hero be gay, and then have all the villians be homophobic, so the sole reason they need to attack them is for being gay.:D
So, is Orson Scott Card the new head Marvel writer then?

[DDM]

None. Why? The gay characters become token gay characters. I don't want them being gay to define their whole character.

[subliminal]

There should only be more gay/lesbian characters if they get written well, which means you actually see some of them get involved in serious relationships -- which leads to panels of them kissing or more (just like the str8 characters we get to see now). Otherwise, who needs another token character who is written poorly. Anyway, current Marvel policy ensures we won't see any good gay characters being 'gay' besides the label.

[rwe1138]

Everyone!!

[Arilou]

However many makes sense.

I don't like to set a target number, because it implies we will at some point reach a point where the "quota" is reached and we shouldn't make any more gay characters.

So I'm going to limit myself to "more than now:"

[Robodojo]

Not meaning to offend anyone, but I think it's interesting how there seems to be a high number of posters here who are gay. Of all the places I've visited on the net, this forum appears to have the highest proportion of gay folks. I guess it is only natural that gay people would gravitate towards a concept like the X-men, given the bigotry that both mutants (fictionally speaking) and gay readers face in society today.

As a straight, white guy I feel as though I am well represented in Marvel comics, but what about everyone else? Marvel has done an OK job at adding some racial diversity to their books, though not terrific. They do have several black characters that they push, most notably Blade and the Black Panther. But since blacks seem to be the only minority that are given a marketing push by Marvel, I tend to think they are more interested in cashing in on the perceived cultural hipness of strong black men than aiming for racial diversity. After all, how many prominent Asian or Latin characters have you seen Joe Queseda and company trying to promote? It makes you wonder if they truly see the world as black and white. Furthermore, I do not feel they are making enough of an effort to integrate gay characters into their stories. There ought to be at least one major Marvel character who is gay, but I think Marvel fears the conservative backlash too much to do that.

[Darkoth]

Percentage wise there probably should be a lot more gay superheroes and villains running around NYC.Still,I'm not quite ready for any iconic hero or villian to step out of the closet,but guys like the Living Lighting,sure why not.Anyone who looks trim and neat.:D

[brundlefly]

However many makes sense.

I don't like to set a target number, because it implies we will at some point reach a point where the "quota" is reached and we shouldn't make any more gay characters.

So I'm going to limit myself to "more than now:"

That's my stance, too.
I can also see DDM's point about how "making" current straight characters suddenly gay can marginalize them, since it's just done as an attention-getting stunt and not handled intelligently or maturely. What was the Western character that they did that with during the Jemas era? Two-Gun Kid?

[Ikaris]

Simple. Since most Marvel Comics take place in the United States you take the % of people in the US who are homosexual and you apply that same % to the number of heros/mutants/villians/whatever and that is how many there should be.

If say 10% of the American Population is gay than 10% of the characters in Marvel Comics should be gay.

I think I agree.

I believe that worldwide the estimate is that one in eleven people are homosexual, however I do not know the percentage of those who are "out in the open" about it?

Perhaps Marvel already got it right. One in eleven is homosexual in the MU, but only so many have come out yet!

[Madison Carter]

It's an interesting query, and one I have no simple answer to.

While I would like to have more positive representation for this lifestyle, I personally dread hearing of any upcoming characters or stories that deal with the gay or bi lifestyle. This really isn't just mainstream comics, but television and film as well. Very few writers get it right, and actually portray people of alternative orientations as actual human beings that are fully fleshed out. Heinberg has done a magnificent job with his characters Wiccan and Hulkling, but they are truly a rare case.

Most of the time, the gay lifestyle is utilized in order to either poke fun at it (even good-hearted fun, e.g. Flatman), or something I detest even more: The use of it to do nothing more than get publicity and sell books. Didn't care for it with Northstar, even regarding the hints Byrne had dropped years earlier. Didn't care for it with Rawhide Kid and certainly don't care for how the current Batwoman was splashed all over the CNN crawl.

The use of a character's orientation as a sales gimmick is nothing more than publicity porn. To utilize it the same way a company would foil covers ("Collector's item! Buy 10 copies!") would be upsetting to me if I weren't already numb with the way the entertainment business treats us.

Ultimately, I would love to see more diversity in the comic character community, but not at the expense of some dignity.

-Madison

[subliminal]

If were going for meaningful real life stories and portrayals of the gay lifestyle, Marvel should have a book about current Iranian gays, or gays from any African nation or Caribbean country or whatever, and show what a gay lifestyle is really like for the largest population of gay people... being marginalized, criminalized and you can have your choice of execution: thrown from the highest building, stoned to death, cut in peices by a sword or hanged. I think I prefer the O.C. version of the lifestyle with Hulkling and Wiccan

[drwho]

I'm fine with a few being non hetero, but I wouldnt say there is a demand to see this in comics. Also I'm not interested in reading anything with ultra feminine males in it. Would be weird for comics not to reflect the variety of gay people if they go this route. Cus not every gay is macho.

[Madison Carter]

I'm fine with a few being non hetero, but I wouldnt say there is a demand to see this in comics. Also I'm not interested in reading anything with ultra feminine males in it. Would be weird for comics not to reflect the variety of gay people if they go this route. Cus not every gay is macho.

Not sure I see the logic here. The variety of gay people would be different from the variety of straight people...how exactly? Sure, not every gay male is "macho" as you put it, but then again, not every hetero male is either. So basically what you're saying is you want your books dandy-free, correct?

[The M.E.]

Not meaning to offend anyone, but I think it's interesting how there seems to be a high number of posters here who are gay. Of all the places I've visited on the net, this forum appears to have the highest proportion of gay folks. I guess it is only natural that gay people would gravitate towards a concept like the X-men, given the bigotry that both mutants (fictionally speaking) and gay readers face in society today.

As a straight, white guy I feel as though I am well represented in Marvel comics, but what about everyone else? Marvel has done an OK job at adding some racial diversity to their books, though not terrific. They do have several black characters that they push, most notably Blade and the Black Panther. But since blacks seem to be the only minority that are given a marketing push by Marvel, I tend to think they are more interested in cashing in on the perceived cultural hipness of strong black men than aiming for racial diversity. After all, how many prominent Asian or Latin characters have you seen Joe Queseda and company trying to promote? It makes you wonder if they truly see the world as black and white. Furthermore, I do not feel they are making enough of an effort to integrate gay characters into their stories. There ought to be at least one major Marvel character who is gay, but I think Marvel fears the conservative backlash too much to do that.


Just wanted to say that I agree with pretty much everything you said robodojo. I think i've always related to the x-men because of the whole 'hated and feared' thing, even before i figured out i was gay. I think you're right about the fear of the ultra conservative backlash though. It's a shame too.

[overmind]

Um... Zero. Don't need 'em.

[Captain_Video]

As long as it isnt some cheap tawdry sales gimmick there should be as many gay characters as need be, preferrably new characters as I despise ill advised retcons.

More of everything, as long as it is good, make the Marvel universe fun again, a seven foot purple gay alien is a good start, you can have that one for free Marvel...he could be called, Skuldoss or something, his power would be to shapeshift into peoples insecurities...yeah that will do, dont worry about the royalties, I will sign the Jack Kirby deal and smile when the movie comes out "I am so proud to see it up there on the screen"

[The Foreigner]

If a character is interesting, I'll read about them; gay or not.

Hulkling and Wiccan were excellently written, and are characters that I enjoy reading about. Midnighter and Apollo (Although not Marvel characters) are also two favorites of mine. But these characters weren't created just because they needed more gay characters in their respective universes.

I just think making characters "come out" all of a sudden or creating new gay characters just to achieve a set homosexual quota is silly.

[Beast]

Um... Zero. Don't need 'em.
I feel the same way about every heterosexual relationship in comics. ;)

See how how unfair and biased that sounds? That's why your argument doesn't fly. :p

[Zombienorthstar]

Ahhh here is the danger in 'quotas'

We shouldnt start outing gay people or creating gay people specifically because we need to fulfil something...it should be something writers use that while it doesnt totally identify the character is an important aspect of them. Similar to Daredevil's Catholicism or Peter Parker's love of science. They're part of what makes the characters who they are, it's not who they are in total.

In answer to, how many? I feel as many as the writers feel they can right realistically and as they would any other characters. But not any because they feel 'oh i need a gay character to average this team out' I dont read my comics for escapism...i read them for allegory and emotional ressonance. No matter how far out the subject matter is, if it doesnt speak to me somewhere inside its useless to me. I have to give a crap about Reed Richards to give a crap about his latest battle with Doom.

[KOSLOX]

I said, leave it as is..maybe add a few new gay characters, maybe like 5. Come on, 30 or more? I find it hard to believe that there should be more gays than ethnic minorities.

[Mariah]

I think Marvel needs to include more minorities period. Be it black, gay, latino, whatever, the more diverse their universe is, the better off it would be. And to the writers, do some freaking research. Don't make them cliches', cuase we don't say, Madre dios just because we're latin.

[xakko]

Simple. Since most Marvel Comics take place in the United States you take the % of people in the US who are homosexual and you apply that same % to the number of heros/mutants/villians/whatever and that is how many there should be.

If say 10% of the American Population is gay than 10% of the characters in Marvel Comics should be gay.

i agree with this statement whole heartedly. let the diversity of real life be shown in the comics world. but don't force the issue, making established straight characters gay or vice versa. If there's ambiguity (Rictor, 10% of Madrox dupes, Iceman), by all means explore it. And if it's a new Universe/alternate reality, have all the fun you want.

But if it's an established heterosexual or homosexual, don't just make them gay or bi or straight just for shock value

[gorthon616]

Seeing there's a demand for more gay characters in the Marvel universe, it seems natural that more should be created, or at least come "out of the closet".

Personally, I'm good with whoever has already made it known to the world.

There's a what now?

But if that's the question...

I want She-Hulk and Storm to come out of the closet and declare their hot-nekkid-lesbian obsessions with one another. And then I want an on-going series. The hot-nekkid-lesbian community needs to be represented! And the horny fan-boy base needs to be appeased! It's a win-win!

And I want Civil War to be ret-conned into "Iron Man's jealous revenge!" where Iron Man and Luke Cage were secretly dating prior to Civil War, but (after the Stamford incident) Tony is so busy working out a new Superhero policy in Washington that he isn't there for Luke when the pressure just gets to be too much, and so he turns right into Captain America's loving arms... But little did they know that their love would rock the Marvel Universe! Because Tony saw (because why do you think the government really passed the Patriot Act? Yes, that's right. The perverts.) the entire incident and is using the SHRA to avenge his broken heart! Who's will win Cage's heart? Tony or Steve? Or will he just go back to the facade of a marriage he has with that chick who was in Alias? (Of course not! The marriage was only done because he knew that as a black homosexual he would never be accepted by the superhero community!) Cap has that soft spoken poet-warrior "Braveheart" vibe going on, but readers find out that Tony was known as "Iron Man" well before he ever had a suit of armor....
Who's side are you on?

And all the members of Nextwave Agents of H.A.T.E. should come out of the closet. Rather than going on absurdly entertaining adventures, they should become an "awareness" group and travel to universities doing lectures about "the underrepresentation/mistreatment of minorities and homosexuals in the media" followed by questions from the student body. Every story arc will have a white heterosexual god-loving Christian who thinks that the Affirmative Action is "reverse racism" and that homosexuals do not have a "right to marriage." By the end of the issue, he realizes that, not only is he homosexual and the re-incarnation of Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard, but that he is in fact, much to his surprise (though he does realize that now "a lot of things make more sense") an Asian woman. The series accidentally leads to the end of the Marvel Comics Universe as Nextwave's message of understanding and tolerance ends all violence and conflict. Marvel hires Rob Liefield to do a Heroes-Reborn reboot for the entire universe, but he accidentally (silly Rob) does a reboot for the real universe. The world commits suicide because we simply cannot stand the way we look anymore.

[xakko]

Don't forget Mystique (bisexual) and Destiny. And possibly Shatterstar.

-D

no love for Flatman of the GLC?

[John Nowak]

37.8. Gotta be.

[Madison Carter]

I think Marvel needs to include more minorities period. Be it black, gay, latino, whatever, the more diverse their universe is, the better off it would be. And to the writers, do some freaking research. Don't make them cliches', cuase we don't say, Madre dios just because we're latin.

Zounds, is this to say zee French, zey do not all talk like theese? Batroc says differently!

Seriously, though, yes, totally agree. The thing that keeps me from wanting to see more gay/bi characters in comics is that I know that when they show up, most of them are going to be in total "Just Jack!" mode. Contrary to popular belief, we don't all go around thinking things are "just FAB-u-lous!"

To be as honest as possible, I'd rather not be represented than be represented by a character whose only characteristic that marks them as being gay/bi is that they swish and flame.

Between that and the gratuitous use of a character's orientation to use as publicity to do nothing more than get news coverage keeps me very skittish to the idea.

-Madison Carter

[The Shadow]

Don't forget Mystique (bisexual)

Mystique is bi-sexual?

[Madison Carter]

may wanna read the rest of the thread, bro. Lot of talk about her relationship with Destiny throughout.

[Captain WOW]

I feel a character shouldn't be gay just to be "gay". There should always be a reason to have a character to come out of the closet. Like furthering a character's arc or current running storyline. I think Wiccan and Hulking are characters that work good together as well as proggress each other's storylines and personalities.

Now I know that there is a demand to increase readership by adding gay characters. But how many writers can actually write convincing characters? I'm just guessing that not too many can. The way I see it, is if outing a character can't be done right, it shouldn't be done at all.

[Ite]

The only gay superhero I know is Northstar. There are others?!!

[Captain WOW]

The only gay superhero I know is Northstar. There are others?!!

Hulking, Wiccan, possibly Mystique and Destiny at a time, Exiles Sunfire (I think, but it might of been Nocturne), Northstar, and I believe there is one more scheduled to sort of come out.

[Ite]

HULKGLING IS GAY?

Don't tell Hulk he would prolly make him change his name,btw what the heck are Hulklings powers and how did you find out he was gay.

[MakeshiftHero]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning
Mystique
Bling!


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.

It seems to me that most of the homosexual/bi characters tend to either be mutants or of an alien race/space theme (runaways/moondragon) to probably help show discrimination and (pardon the pun) alienation (the x-men/mutants is a dead giveaway) that come with being different. But if Marvel were to bring in more homosexual characters, as a straight "male, middle class, and white" (Ben Folds music anyone?) comic book reader, I'd rather see the more "human" characters (no more teenagers, it's a bit over used, why not adults?) become gay/lesbian. Homosexuality isn't as uncommon and has become way more publicized now than ever before. And I do agree with the other posters when they say it shouldnt be for shock value of any kind, it either needs to be brought up close to their start or just hinted at and built up over a year or more. It makes a lot of sense for shape shifters such as Mystique to be "bisexual" in her/his case, and to have that "questioning/gay personality" of Madrox in his mini series, because a good amount of straight people wonder if it would be just as difficult to find a boy/girl friend if they were homosexual and other questions.

Personaly I think there need to be more African American, Asian, European characters, or God forbid an eskimo or hawiian or interracial characters?

Or even have a couple of senior citizens become heros and no longer the assistants (aunt may, jarvis, alfred the buttler (D.C. I know, please don't excommunicate me:D )

Marvel should just try to go a different way and make another "type" of hero/villian. Stay away from the gay heros for a while and try other approaches, maybe even characters who were adopted (which is a big issue as well) or a very very poor/homeless hero and the inner struggles he faces with being tempted to use his powers for his own good and flirts with becoming a villian, but instead of making it Captin Carboard Box Bob, do a more serious approach.

[Leaper Queen]

In the real world 10% of the people are gay, so it should be like that in the Marvel Universe as well.

[Ite]

In the real world 10% of the people are gay, so it should be like that in the Marvel Universe as well.

More like 3 percent where do you get your stats and why would they change Colossus to be gay, I say keep it like it was supposed to be, he and Kitty Pryde have always liked each other.

[kidpernicious]

So what would the homosexual equivalent be to racist Native American caricature Apache Chief? Or the blaxsploitastic Black Lightning? If comics creators ever actually approach the issue of minorities or sexuality by the numbers, it only hurts the work, because it's playing too rigid and shoehorning in faces just to fit a minority niche. Unnatural. Just like homosexuality. Kidding.

No seriously though. To answer the question, I'd like all the Marvel Age titles to exclusively feature homosexual villains eating puppies and pooping on grandmas, and have our nice cleancut hetero heroes thumping them (in an entirely hetero way) every ish, so's we can learn on our youngins some right moral goodness, teach them how to be proper and to damn the wicked.

Or I'd rather not even pay attention to the apparently severe need for more lame token characters in our comic books, and just hope for good stories with well-written characters. Except, I'm half-filipino and half scots-irish and I feel like my peoples is underrepresented. Where are my heroes, you racist funks?

[BloodRedSandman]

Seeing there's a demand for more gay characters in the Marvel universe, it seems natural that more should be created, or at least come "out of the closet".
Been reading comic books (on and off) for a while now, and I have ot say that I am glad that Marvel has done away with the Comic Codes Authority (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority) in 2001.
# Illicit sex relations are neither to be hinted at nor portrayed. Violent love scenes as well as sexual abnormalities are unacceptable.
# Sex perversion or any inference to same is strictly forbidden. Like I do remember my Ex-GF commenting about Marvel kept on muffling Northstar sexuality.

Like I am straight, but I have a few freinds that are homosexual, and my attitude has always been "Big Deal. What other's do in the bed room is their business". I feel that having a gay or lesbean character in comic books is a good idea has it help break down the barriers in some people minds that Gay People are evil or freaks.

As for gay and lesbains readers, it does give them some themes that they can relate to from time to time.
Eg. Runnaways when Lucy of the Sky trying to crack onto Sister Grimm, only to find out that Sister Grim is just not interested in boys.
And there was Ultimate X-men where you have Night Crawler being extremely uncomfortable around Colossus ever since Colossus came out of the closet.

Over all, I don't mind if the comic book character is gay.

[Crimson]

This is an odd question... I'd say any characters writtent o be gay/bi and any character that has been written to be straight.

Rictor makes sense, Wolverine wouldn't.

I don't need a specific quoto, just what ever makes sense.

I wouldn't ask for 30 or more straight people in the MU either.

[Zombienorthstar]

Or even have a couple of senior citizens become heros and no longer the assistants (aunt may, jarvis, alfred the buttler (D.C. I know, please don't excommunicate me:D )

.

Centennial of Alpha Flight vol.3 fame is in his nineties....and one of my fave characters.

More like 3 percent where do you get your stats and why would they change Colossus to be gay, I say keep it like it was supposed to be, he and Kitty Pryde have always liked each other.

They didnt want to make Colossus gay, they made Ultimate Colossus gay...they're totally different characters. Ult. Colossus never showed any interest in Kitty.

[BadAssMofo]

Most superheroes are gay.

GAY: happily excited : MERRY <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>

Long as those pesky villains don't commit crimes.;)

[Brian M.]

I said it on page 2 if you want to be fair and if you don't want cries from fanboys about too many or too little you just do the statistics from the US on the %age of gay Americas and you apply that to the MU. That way it's a real world representation of the number of homosexuals in society. You don't have to go and make say Johnny Storm gay to meet the stats but maybe if you introduce a new supporting cast member then maybe he/she is homosexual. Keep it by the numbers and you won't get discrimination calls and if the extreme right-wing nutjobs who think being Gay is evil come calling you just show them the numbers aswell.

[Mariah]

More like 3 percent where do you get your stats and why would they change Colossus to be gay, I say keep it like it was supposed to be, he and Kitty Pryde have always liked each other.
1 out of every ten men, and 1 out of every 5 women are either gay or bisexual. So, let's see, what percentage of ten would be 1...hmmm...10% of men are gay or bisexual, and 20% of women are gay of bisexual. UofNY's psych department did a huge study a few years ago on this. I read about it in my sexuality and society class.

[Omega Alpha]

This is an odd question... I'd say any characters writtent o be gay/bi and any character that has been written to be straight.

Rictor makes sense, Wolverine wouldn't.

I don't need a specific quoto, just what ever makes sense.

I wouldn't ask for 30 or more straight people in the MU either.


Claremont intended to make Wolverine bi in the 80's, but Shooter did not let him:p He said that for him Wolverine is the "any port during a storm (no pun intended)" type.

[Haunt]

i don't know about making current heroes gay but i think Freedom Ring should come back and get a personality-art-costume overhaul.

[subliminal]

So what would the homosexual equivalent be to racist Native American caricature Apache Chief? Or the blaxsploitastic Black Lightning? If comics creators ever actually approach the issue of minorities or sexuality by the numbers, it only hurts the work, because it's playing too rigid and shoehorning in faces just to fit a minority niche. Unnatural. Just like homosexuality. Kidding.

No seriously though. To answer the question, I'd like all the Marvel Age titles to exclusively feature homosexual villains eating puppies and pooping on grandmas, and have our nice cleancut hetero heroes thumping them (in an entirely hetero way) every ish, so's we can learn on our youngins some right moral goodness, teach them how to be proper and to damn the wicked.

Or I'd rather not even pay attention to the apparently severe need for more lame token characters in our comic books, and just hope for good stories with well-written characters. Except, I'm half-filipino and half scots-irish and I feel like my peoples is underrepresented. Where are my heroes, you racist funks?

Lets ask Marvel to make Filipino/Gay characters now! Rainbow -- a guy who can have rainbow light powers to dazzle. Or just make that Pixie kid at the Mutant school into a dude with the pixie dust power to "make-over" poopy grandma's clothes. And a filipina version of Forge, who makes Ororo break up with BP and instead of puppies they can eat Balut. Oh wait... that is unnatural.

Claremont intended to make Wolverine bi in the 80's, but Shooter did not let him:p He said that for him Wolverine is the "any port during a storm (no pun intended)" type.

I knew that Enemy of the State thing was personal... Wolvie penetrating poor Jean Paul again?

[NickThompson]

IMO it's not something that should be quotaed or anything, I'd just like a natural increase.

[TimGunn]

they're ALL gay to me!

Also 10% of gays in society is a debated number (I think it's more like 100%)

[Red Lotus]

I think its more of who a thing. If they had some one like Storm come out then that would do more then adding 10 new gay characters who no one knows or cares about. Besides Storm coming out would have made more sense then her getting married to the Black Panther. Her relationship with Yukio was much more developed then the one they threw together for her and Black Panther.

[Crimson]

Claremont intended to make Wolverine bi in the 80's, but Shooter did not let him:p He said that for him Wolverine is the "any port during a storm (no pun intended)" type.

In the 80's I could see it, now I couldn't he's slept with every girl with red hair and then some.

I couldn't see it now, unless Marvel could sort out a cross over with Carrot Top.

[Ite]

1 out of every ten men, and 1 out of every 5 women are either gay or bisexual. So, let's see, what percentage of ten would be 1...hmmm...10% of men are gay or bisexual, and 20% of women are gay of bisexual. UofNY's psych department did a huge study a few years ago on this. I read about it in my sexuality and society class.

Bisexuals do not count, and it's more like 1 out of every 20 men are gay not 10.

[Nyssane]

Bisexuals do not count, and it's more like 1 out of every 20 men are gay not 10.

Uh, sociological studies have proven that 1 in 10 men are gay/bi. Hate to burst your bubble.

[NickThompson]

Uh, sociological studies have proven that 1 in 10 men are gay/bi. Hate to burst your bubble.

I don't see how they PROVE it. Was anyone here asked? :)

[subliminal]

How do they prove it anyway? Do they have electrodes that measure arousal to gay stimulation? Is it based on what people identify as? Is the study paid for by a pro-gay or anti-gay stakeholders?

[TimGunn]

Yes it is very hard to "prove" but there was one study that gave straight men a questionaire about teh gheys to see how homophobic they were. Then they made all the straight men watch gay porn and attached electrodes or sensors or whatever to their junk. And it turned out that the ones w/ the most homophobic attitudes from the questionaires were also the ones w/ the most arousal during the gay pron.

Like I said, you're all gay to me, especially those of you hating on the gays.

[TimGunn]

This just in:

"For the first time, the abstract quantifies same-sex sexual contacts (6 percent of men and 11.2 percent of women say they have had them)"

NY Times article about the census data.

[That JonoGuy]

How do they prove it anyway? Do they have electrodes that measure arousal to gay stimulation? Is it based on what people identify as? Is the study paid for by a pro-gay or anti-gay stakeholders?

You're on the right track. Plus, any study on this isn't going to come up very accurate. How do you gauge the number when there are plents of people who are still in the closet and have no intention of coming out.

[Mariah]

Bisexuals do not count, and it's more like 1 out of every 20 men are gay not 10.
Yes they do, because there are two different kinds of bisexuals. Those who mostly sleep with the opposite sex, but have daliances with the same ie. The heterosexual with homosexual tendencies. And the other who sleep with the same gender more, but have occasional daliances with the opposite gender, ie. homosexual with heterosexual tendencies.

The numbers I came up with came out of a book in a sociology class, where are you getting your numbers?

[That JonoGuy]

Yes they do, because there are two different kinds of bisexuals. Those who mostly sleep with the opposite sex, but have daliances with the same ie. The heterosexual with homosexual tendencies. And the other who sleep with the same gender more, but have occasional daliances with the opposite gender, ie. homosexual with heterosexual tendencies.

The numbers I came up with came out of a book in a sociology class, where are you getting your numbers?

Technically shouldn't there be a third as well. The ones who have an equal attraction to both sexes.

[Mariah]

Technically shouldn't there be a third as well. The ones who have an equal attraction to both sexes.
I asked that, but my professor said that while there may be people like that, for some reason they are linked into the other two groups, because usually they don't have an exact number of sexual partners of both men and women.

[protege]

I think a better question would be, "Who would you like to be gay?" and I'm not going to go there...

[blackphoenix]

I can't believe that the 616 MU(or ANY universe) has so few gay/lesbian/bi/TG characters! Everyone is so frickin hetero it bores me to tears! It really shouldn't be that big of a deal to have more openly gay characters(and please, leave out the shallow "flaming queen" and "ultra butch" stereotypes--there is a lot more diversity in the gay community than that!).

[blackphoenix]

I think a better question would be, "Who would you like to be gay?" and I'm not going to go there...

ICEMAN!!!!! :)

[Mister Mets]

Depends on how many superheroes there are in the Marvel U.

I'd go with 5% myself.

[Loki]

So what would the homosexual equivalent be to racist Native American caricature Apache Chief? Or the blaxsploitastic Black Lightning?

You had to ask...
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/g/gayguy.htm

[Pro]

I asked that, but my professor said that while there may be people like that, for some reason they are linked into the other two groups, because usually they don't have an exact number of sexual partners of both men and women.

That's because for that group the people they fall for are entirely arbitrary and based on who they fall for. Personality more than what's between someone's legs determines who they'll be with. It's not like bi's who fall for both sexes equally keep a chart on how many people they slept with of a certain gender. "Hmm, let's see 4 girls and 3 guys so far, so the next person i fall for must be a guy or my quotas will be out of balance ..".

Personally i think the bi percentages are much higher than research points out but many bi's call themselves gay or straight if they have a clear preference for a specific gender. Add to that peer pressure to conform that is directed to bi's from both the straight and gay direction.

There also seems to be a difference between sexual attraction, physical attraction and emotional attraction. I would say i feel sexually attracted to guys more often than girls (60-40%, although the pecentages shift somewhat wheni'm in love with a person of a given gender, i find myself looking at girls more when i fall for a girl and likewise when i fall for a guy), physically attracted as in finding someone beautifull without necessarilly getting aroused 50-50% and emotionally attracted, feeling strangly drawn to someone emotionally also about 50%.

Statistically speaking I'm more likely to find myself attracted to a guy but it really depends on the person and it relies on a variety of factors from appearance to personality to intelligence to honesty.

in practice i've wasted most of my life wondering what makes me attracted to a person and second guessing myself but the fact is i like guys and girls, depending on the person, the whole package and not just their gender.

I don't see how they PROVE it. Was anyone here asked?

If they asked here it would be more like 1 out of 3 ..

[maniacmatt]

What annoys me is that there are so many agy superheroes already, and it's okay, but they're afraid to make a strongly Christian character. And who thinks there are more gays than Christians?

[kal_el21]

I really don't care how many are. Why isn't that a selection? Doesn't matter to me.

[KOSLOX]

What annoys me is that there are so many agy superheroes already, and it's okay, but they're afraid to make a strongly Christian character. And who thinks there are more gays than Christians?

Umm...Daredevil? Unless you don't count catholics as christian, which I've heard some "Christians" say, to which I usually roll my eyes. As far as the Gay V. Christian thing, religion is something people are conditioned into or choose. As far as I've heard you are born gay. (I'm not going to argue this point because it's stupid and irrelevant.) Point being that religion should not be used as criteria for comparing minority groups...granted I don't think being gay should count either but whatever.

[Loki]

What annoys me is that there are so many agy superheroes already, and it's okay, but they're afraid to make a strongly Christian character. And who thinks there are more gays than Christians?

Christian superheroes (ones whose religion is explicit and a large part of their character, so not including the ones who might well be quietly religious).

Wolfsbane
Firebird
Nightcrawler
Cannonball (indeed the whole Guthrie clan)
Daredevil
Skin
Hellstorm (don't laugh - he became a priest at one point. Guess if you know Satan exists, it isn't tricky to believe in God)

Those are just the easy ones, off the top of my head. There's bound to be more. And that doesn't include ones from non-mainstream Marvel universe titles, such as many of the New Universe's DP 7 or Astro City's Crossbreed (an entire team of overtly Christian heroes).

[gorthon616]

Umm...Daredevil? Unless you don't count catholics as christian, which I've heard some "Christians" say, to which I usually roll my eyes. As far as the Gay V. Christian thing, religion is something people are conditioned into or choose. As far as I've heard you are born gay. (I'm not going to argue this point because it's stupid and irrelevant.) Point being that religion should not be used as criteria for comparing minority groups...granted I don't think being gay should count either but whatever.

I don't see how arguing whether or not people are born gay or not is "stupid and irrelevant." OK maybe stupid, but if your removing religion as being a criteria for being a minority based on the fact that they are "conditioned into or choose" that religion, then it seems like your are being blatantly illogical in what you consider relevant and irrelevant. If that is the existence of a choice is the bases for that determination, then addressing whether or not people are born gay or not is THE question, and being quite far from irrelevant.

I don't think your criteria holds up either. Because I think the basis of saying that we should only care about representation to no-choice states of existence is you are saying the individual is deny being represented on his own accord. But is that what you are really going to say? That if you are of a religious minority you have not cause (as much as any other minority has cause) to be represented, because they should simply choose to be of a different religion? That sounds entirely preposterous.

[Pro]

What annoys me is that there are so many agy superheroes already, and it's okay, but they're afraid to make a strongly Christian character. And who thinks there are more gays than Christians?

Statistically speaking? I'm sure there are more gays than christians. 10% of men, 20% of women, that's 30% of mankind who are gay/bi. How many chinese does that make gay? How many chinese are christian? How many asians in total? How many Middle eastern people? Not to mention christians among themselves can't even decide what a christian is with protestant denominations siding against catholics and both of them siding against mormons. But let's see how many christian superheroes there really are:

Practically every wedding or funeral depicted in comics is presided over by a church official. Then there are outspoken christian Marvel characters like Rahne Sinclair, speedball (presbytarian), psylocke, captain britain(anglican), Nightcrawler, daredevil, Northstar, Aurora, Living Lightning, Punisher, Gambit, Shamrock, Firestar, Vindicator, Rockslide, sunspot, Banshee, polaris, Syrin,(catholic), Spiderman, Captain America, Dazzler, Cyclops, US Agent(protestant),Electra(greek orthodox),Cannonball, Husk, Icarus (baptist), rogue (southern baptist).

Outside Marvel Kurt Busiek's ASTRO CITY series has a superhero team called the "Crossbreed" which is explicitly Christian. Superman is a methodist. I'm not even going to touch the rest of DC's heroes.

You're not under-represented, gays/bi's are.

[gorthon616]

Christian superheroes (ones whose religion is explicit and a large part of their character, so not including the ones who might well be quietly religious).

Wolfsbane
Firebird
Nightcrawler
Cannonball (indeed the whole Guthrie clan)
Daredevil
Skin
Hellstorm (don't laugh - he became a priest at one point. Guess if you know Satan exists, it isn't tricky to believe in God)

Those are just the easy ones, off the top of my head. There's bound to be more. And that doesn't include ones from non-mainstream Marvel universe titles, such as many of the New Universe's DP 7 or Astro City's Crossbreed (an entire team of overtly Christian heroes).

And for anybody who wants the comic world to be a reflection of the real world (not me), I would say that we are far from a representation of the religious individuals in America.... so I guess it ain't a surprise that Gays/Minorities haven't gotten the proportion right either (though they might be better off relatively).

[gorthon616]

Statistically speaking? I'm sure there are more gays than christians. 10% of men, 20% of women, that's 30% of mankind who are gay/bi.

lol. try again.

[Pro]

lol. try again.

Oops, 4 am. Still, more gay/bi's than there are christians. Can't beat the numbers when you take into account the whole world ;)

[Pro]

a minority based on the fact that they are "conditioned into or choose" that religion

I find it highly amusing that in discussions with christians when they're pointing out the US is a christian nation they claim 80% of america is christian, yet when they feel their rights are threatened suddenly the percentage dramatically drops to 30-40% and they claim to be a religious minority :).

Anyway time for bed ..

[KOSLOX]

I don't see how arguing whether or not people are born gay or not is "stupid and irrelevant." OK maybe stupid, but if your removing religion as being a criteria for being a minority based on the fact that they are "conditioned into or choose" that religion, then it seems like your are being blatantly illogical in what you consider relevant and irrelevant. If that is the existence of a choice is the bases for that determination, then addressing whether or not people are born gay or not is THE question, and being quite far from irrelevant.

I don't think your criteria holds up either. Because I think the basis of saying that we should only care about representation to no-choice states of existence is you are saying the individual is deny being represented on his own accord. But is that what you are really going to say? That if you are of a religious minority you have not cause (as much as any other minority has cause) to be represented, because they should simply choose to be of a different religion? That sounds entirely preposterous.

Preposterous, maybe, but i'd say your pretty close to exactly how I feel. I can't argue whether someone is born being gay, I'm not gay nor do I have any background in psych...that's why I won't argue whether or not someone born gay, oh it's also because I don't care. However, you are correct I don't see any religion as criteria for being a minority group, at least not in the U.S, religion much like sexual orientation should be a private matter that is not exploited for politics...I know that's absurd because everyone does this but that's how I see it. I think much more could be accomplished if neither of these topics were made so politically charged. Now that I think about even race to an extent, while all my favorite characters are black, I don't think the marvel U needs to cram them down on everyone just to for the sake of appeasement. It's stupid and leads to token and stagnant characters. I'm on about 15 tangeants, and am working so if someone wants any follow up on this post go ahead and line item it, and I'll address each one. BTW, I'm athiest/apathetic so my view on religion is obviously skewed more towards dismissal, of the subject matter, not believers...I'm not going to "preach" (hopefully! I'll try not to.) nor do I want to be preached to.

[gorthon616]

Oops, 4 am. Still, more gay/bi's than there are christians. Can't beat the numbers when you take into account the whole world ;)

You really think so? At only 15%?

I don't know where you're getting your numbers from (I would be skeptical regardless of where it came from, so no need to bother getting into arguments on validity of sources), but to me that sounds like a rather inflated number. I would let 10% go without an argument at maximum (based on my mutant ability to determine worldwide sexual orientation densities).

I'm not sure what taking the world into account would do either (well other than dilute the % of Christians). If we take into the account the whole world, then all sorts of other groups become the neglected minority of choice. Hinduism for starters (most common religion in the world... either that or Buddhism). Not to mention.... people who live in other countries? ;)

Marvel Comics (and most comics relevant to this discussion) are American centered, with occasionally a British book here or there. So it doesn't seem to make much sense, to equate them into this discussion when they are not represented by design.

That being said, where are you at that it is 4AM?

[gorthon616]

Preposterous, maybe, but i'd say your pretty close to exactly how I feel. I can't argue whether someone is born being gay, I'm not gay nor do I have any background in psych...that's why I won't argue whether or not someone born gay, oh it's also because I don't care. However, you are correct I don't see any religion as criteria for being a minority group, at least not in the U.S, religion much like sexual orientation should be a private matter that is not exploited for politics...I know that's absurd because everyone does this but that's how I see it. I think much more could be accomplished if neither of these topics were made so politically charged. Now that I think about even race to an extent, while all my favorite characters are black, I don't think the marvel U needs to cram them down on everyone just to for the sake of appeasement. It's stupid and leads to token and stagnant characters. I'm on about 15 tangeants, and am working so if someone wants any follow up on this post go ahead and line item it, and I'll address each one. BTW, I'm athiest/apathetic so my view on religion is obviously skewed more towards dismissal, of the subject matter, not believers...I'm not going to "preach" (hopefully! I'll try not to.) nor do I want to be preached to.

I actually agree with you here (roughly), at least in that, as far as this discussion goes at least, we wouldn't count sexual orientation/religion as a minority. I care little about championing racial representation in media, nothing about sexual orientation in media, and even less about religion in media.

One thing you should realize though is that whether something is politically charged is (to a degree) very unresponsive to the individual. Drop race, sexual orientation, religion into a bucket of people.... and man-o-man watch those ripples. The point is other people are going to charge it up, whether or not you desire them to or not. That's really the paradigm example for the argument. Minority walks up to someone and the other person charges up a certain trait of his when he'd simply rather not.

Knowing that some people try to charge it up... but only slightly... or invariable under the color of being "correct" in the way they do it.

For me, I always try to quell that charging and say that we're making it into an issue when we really shouldn't. Sure, there are going to be occasions of @$$holery and times where we go "man I wish they had ___ here" but I'd rather have people deal with that on a personal level. Otherwise, people are just submitting themselves to this politically charge structure that will never do what they want it to do and always be more problematic that it's worth.

BTW I'm an Asian (though generally not very in line with Asianisms), catholic (though not very good at it), and heterosexual (tragically not very good at that either.... if the fact that it's 10PM where I'm at and I'm posting on a freaking comic book forum wasn't indicative enough :p ) for whatever it's worth.

[Novaya Havoc]

Dazzler

Dazzler's an outspoken Christian? Since when? I've never seen her faith mentioned, though it's pretty much assumed that she is Christian.

[Red Lotus]

Dazzler's an outspoken Christian? Since when? I've never seen her faith mentioned, though it's pretty much assumed that she is Christian.

Thats nothing. Fin Fang Foom founded Scientology.

[Jadeskies]

None, because I dont think you should make a character gay to 'make them more interesting' or to pander for attention.

[Arilou]

Statistically speaking? I'm sure there are more gays than christians. 10% of men, 20% of women, that's 30% of mankind who are gay/bi.

Actually, that's wrong. 10% of men, 20% of women would (assuming that there is an equal amount of men and women) make up 15% of the total populace.

(20% of 50% is 10% of the whole, 10% of 50% is 5% of the whole, total 15%)

There are roughly 2 billion christians in the world (give or take) so that's around 1/3 or 33% of the entire world-population.

[Arilou]

. After all, how many prominent Asian or Latin characters have you seen Joe Queseda and company trying to promote?

More asians than you might think around: Jubilee, Nico (from the Runaways) Noriko (from New X-men) etc. etc. Not saying that there couldn't be more, but I think Marvel has (to some degree) been listening.

Likewise Arana and the new White Tiger are both latino. As is Sunspot, Wind Dancer and a few others.

They are around, just not promoted much.

There are only a few middle-eastern characters around (Dust and the new Arabian Knight, Sabra)

Not saying Marvel couldn't do a better job, but they seem to at least be slightly trying.

[StoneGold]

Likewise Arana and the new White Tiger are both latino. As is Sunspot, Wind Dancer and a few others.

They are around, just not promoted much.


Arana and White Tiger aren't promoted much? But what about all the people complaining that they are being shoved down their throats?

[firestarfan]

Honestly, there should be more gay characters AND more "Christian" (I'm assuming you mean Evangelical?) characters, because there are a lot of interesting stories to be told from both sides -- especially where the two cross paths.

How would a hero with an anti-gay worldview interact with a gay hero? Would being on the same side during a battle manage to convince the anti-gay hero that there's no reason to fear or condemn gay people? Would being rescued by a Conservative Christian convince a gay hero that all Christians aren't hateful gay-bashers?

These two factions are often facing off against each other at this point in our society and it would be interesting to see how these same battles took place in the Marvel U.

(Of course, one could take the entire history of Mutantkind as a pretty good symbol of the gay community...Ian McKellen - who is gay - has said that this is where he got his inspiration for Magneto.)

[SKJAM!]

Honestly, there should be more gay characters AND more "Christian" (I'm assuming you mean Evangelical?) characters, because there are a lot of interesting stories to be told from both sides -- especially where the two cross paths.

How would a hero with an anti-gay worldview interact with a gay hero? Would being on the same side during a battle manage to convince the anti-gay hero that there's no reason to fear or condemn gay people? Would being rescued by a Conservative Christian convince a gay hero that all Christians aren't hateful gay-bashers?



Or a "out" gay character who also happens to be a fervent Christian, who fries minds on both sides of the divide. That's always fun.

[KOSLOX]

I actually like the idea of a closeted gay hero, are there any? It'd be an interesting twist on the whole maintaining a secret identity. I nominate U.S Agent, however, I could easily see this slipping into the realm of exploitation. Obviously, I wouldn't assign the project to a Daniel Way(based on some things I've read)....maybe Orson Scott Card? Jokes.

[Haunt]

None, because I dont think you should make a character gay to 'make them more interesting' or to pander for attention.

how about them just happening to be gay like a 100 or so marvel characters just happen to be straight?

[aeriz]

I don't see how more gay super heroes would change my point of view about homosexuality. There shouldn't be more gay characters than the writers find interesting, and they shouldn't be used as cheap literary devices.

Religions are a completely different thing. But the main question was about gay characters.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

This has got be one of the worst phrased questions of a thread ever.........

How many characters do you WANT to MAKE gay? How distastefull is that? You make it sound like sexuality is something people choose, and that's just nuts.

I don't WANT to see ANY characters made gay for the sake of it, which is effectively what your suggesting here. If a new character is introduced who just happens to have that orientation that's great. Recent examples in Young Avengers for example prove that you can have characters, who are gay, without it being contrived or detracting from either their character or the story.

But if there were a character who had been ambiguous in the past who a certain writer felt they wanted to out I would always have to say that you have to consider that very carefully. Is there really that much evidence to support it, or have there just been a few in joukes between writers over the years. Never mistake one for the other.

For example I myself don't see Iceman as being specifically 'Gay'. I know that there have been apparent suggestions in the past to support that claim, but there has also been an overwhelming amount of heterosexual activity. Now people might argue that as being some kind of front, to hide his true inclination, but I can't buy into that.

I prefer to think of Bobby as probably swinging both ways, if the right situation were presented to him. But it really would have to be a specific situation. And that's why I object to a generic concept like 'Lets's make a few more characters gay, to even up the odds!'

No, no, no!

That's just wrong. From a dramatic point of view watching a character go through the motions and be developed as gay, or bi-sexual, can be very moving and poinient when done well. Northstar in Alpha Flight, for example. But it has to be well-written and thought through. You can't just make somebody gay for the sake of it. That doesn't happen in real life - why would it happen here?

[The Fury]

We need 17 gay men, 14 lesbians and 21 bisexuals (men and women).

[Taskmaster]

That list has tons of characters I don't know. And it says Atlas (MARVEL), which I think is Atlas from Thunderbolts is transgendered (wtf?!?!?!?!?!?)

For a period during the original T-Bolts run, to make a long story short, he shared his girlfriend's body

[Alan2099]

I do find it funny that they claim Mephisto as bisexual.
Mephisto goes beyond Bi-sexual. He's like Omni-Sexual. If there's some kind of sexual preference or fetish or whatever, he's probably done it and managed to find a way to pervert it just to tormet people. That's just one of the ways he gets his kicks.

It sounds like you're swimming in gay people if you need comics to escape from them ..
Swimming in gay people... that creates a very intresting mental picture. An extremely GAY one.

I'm not quite ready for any iconic hero or villian to step out of the closet,but guys like the Living Lighting,sure why not.Anyone who looks trim and neat.
So if D-man or the Blob came out of the closet you'd be against that. You're such a ... umm... slob-ophobe.

Claremont intended to make Wolverine bi in the 80's, but Shooter did not let him He said that for him Wolverine is the "any port during a storm (no pun intended)" type.
Really? I didn't know Ororo was up for that kind of thing.

Oh, and Thanos is gay. Possibly Deadpool. I say possibly because he might not be aware Death is actualy a man. it's true. Go Check out Secret Wars II. Death died and was replaced by a man that became the new Death.

What would you consider the sexuality of a character that has no set gender or has a power where they change genders?

[Ernasto]

I don't have a problem with gay characters: I love lesbians :D

But seriously: how many times is sex an issue in comicbooks? Not that many times, so if a superhero's gay, leave it at that. I don't see many books about heterosexual situations that tend to have more exposure than superhero situations, and I'm fine with that. I've never bought a comicbook because I wanna see heterosexual/bi/gay issues dealt with.. I buy them because of the superhero thang!

[Nyssane]

So if D-man or the Blob came out of the closet you'd be against that. You're such a ... umm... slob-ophobe.

HEY HEY HEY now! D-Man is fuggin' hot! I'd do 'im.

[Darkoth]

HEY HEY HEY now! D-Man is fuggin' hot! I'd do 'im.

Yeah,but he smells really bad.Then again,the Blob probably smells even worse.:p

[Sandy Hausler]

How many are there anyway? Northstar, Anole, Hector, Wiccan, Hulkling
And characters shouldn't be created to attain a certain number of characters of this or that nature. (that doesn't make much sense).

Anole is gay? He's the green chameleon guy in New X-Men, right? He's hard said a thing in the book. He wasn't a New Mutant or a Hellion, the two groups who got significant coverage in the book. How can you tell his sexual orientation? Or am I thinking about the wrong guy?

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning
Mystique
Bling!


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.

Luna? Quicksilver's and Crystal's kid? Isn't she about six years old?

Sandy Hausler

[Sandy Hausler]

Gay or bi Marvel characters who are still alive:

Northstar
Anole
Lucy in The Sky
Xavin (does it apply?)
Wiccan
Hulkling
Karma
Luna
Rictor
Marlo
Ultimate Colossus
Ultimate Northstar
Shinobi Shaw
Andreas Strucker
Blindspot
Living Lightning
Mystique
Bling!


Am I missing anyone?

Karma needs a big comebak, me thinks.

Is Moondragon dead?

Sandy Hausler

[Jack Flash]

Anole is gay? He's the green chameleon guy in New X-Men, right? He's hard said a thing in the book. He wasn't a New Mutant or a Hellion, the two groups who got significant coverage in the book. How can you tell his sexual orientation? Or am I thinking about the wrong guy?

Sandy Hausler

it's stated in the 198 files and heavily hinted at in Academy X/New Mutants.

[Haunt]

Yeah,but he smells really bad.Then again,the Blob probably smells even worse.:p

only when you lift the folds and disturb the fungus inside.


anyways, here's a list of characters i wouldn't mind being gay or bi-sexual.

Blizzard
Freedom Ring
Wiccan
Hulkling
Mystique
Destiny
Machinesmith
Shocker
Electro
Daimon Hellstrom
Swordsman
Northstar
Rictor
Multiple-Man
Count Nefaria
Mighty Destroyer
most skrulls
and a bunch of new characters

[Nyssane]

Yeah,but he smells really bad.Then again,the Blob probably smells even worse.:p

You mean he smells like a MAN. ;)

[Darkoth]

only when you lift the folds and disturb the fungus inside.


anyways, here's a list of characters i wouldn't mind being gay or bi-sexual.

Blizzard
Freedom Ring
Wiccan
Hulkling
Mystique
Destiny
Machinesmith
Shocker
Electro
Daimon Hellstrom
Swordsman
Northstar
Rictor
Multiple-Man
Count Nefaria
Mighty Destroyer
most skrulls
and a bunch of new characters

Yeah,I could see any of those characters living an alternate lifestyle.Not much is known about Shocker or Electro,they seem more interested in loot than anything else,so I say if a writer wants to go there...have at it.Hellstrom is an interesting pick,very Vertigo-ish.

[Haunt]

Yeah,I could see any of those characters living an alternate lifestyle.Not much is known about Shocker or Electro,they seem more interested in loot than anything else,so I say if a writer wants to go there...have at it.Hellstrom is an interesting pick,very Vertigo-ish.

i mentioned Electro because he was seeing a shape-shifting prostitute regularly and was, apparently, asking the shape-shifter to pose as a dude.

http://www.gayleague.com/gay/characters/display.php?id=209

[Christopher O]

Luna? Quicksilver's and Crystal's kid? Isn't she about six years old?

Sandy Hausler
No, this Luna is a supporting character from New X-Men/Academy X.
Is Moondragon dead?

Sandy Hausler
No but she is missing an ear.

[Madison Carter]

We need 17 gay men, 14 lesbians and 21 bisexuals (men and women).

Okay, we got the L, G and B covered, what about the T?

[Madison Carter]

Possibly Deadpool. I say possibly because he might not be aware Death is actualy a man. it's true. Go Check out Secret Wars II. Death died and was replaced by a man that became the new Death.

Well, if you've been reading Cable & Deadpool, Wade's been having some very interesting dreams involving Cable, mostly brought on by Black Mamba's powers. Oh, and he's an occassional transvestite as well.

[Nyssane]

Okay, we got the L, G and B covered, what about the T?

There's always Mindmeld, who apparently has the mind of a female but the body of a male. Take him and make him into an A-Lister and THERE YA GO. :)

Well, if you've been reading Cable & Deadpool, Wade's been having some very interesting dreams involving Cable, mostly brought on by Black Mamba's powers. Oh, and he's an occassional transvestite as well.

Don't forget the hot orgy between Cable, Deadpool, Weasel, Iron Fist, and Luke Cage. Mmm...

[Expletive Deleted]

Okay, we got the L, G and B covered, what about the T?Ronin?

Seriously, though. Cloud, Xavin, and "Wanda" Langowski.

[Haunt]

Ronin?

Seriously, though. Cloud, Xavin, and "Wanda" Langowski.

don't forget the mutants 'Mindmeld' 'Quiet Man' and 'Jacob "Jacqueline" Gavin jr."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindmeld

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Courier_(Jacob_Gavin)

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/characters/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1777

of course, i'm not sure that the last two count. Quiet Man aka Steinbeck was, apparently, a hermaphrodite. and Jacob Gaving jr aka Courier was altered into a female, against his will. of course he soon became accustomed to his new body.

and i guess there's also
http://www.marvel.com/universe/Vixen_(Nigel_Frobisher)

there sure are a bunch of marvel characters being changed into women. has it ever been done the other way?

[Sgt. Preston]

The amount of gay characters is not as important to me as the writer's ability to justify their orientation. If it's some token gesture made just for shock value then it's pointless and insulting to fans(a la Beast's comment during the Morrison run). It certainly seems much easier to pull off if the character is new versus taking an existing creation with a well documented back story.

[BloodRedSandman]

I am currently half way through the New (X) Men Omibus, and you got BREAST questioning his Sexuality in issue #125.

I am no homophobe. However I am rather uneasy with marvel getting well established straight characters, and having them come out of the closet in the 616 universe.

Like even my best freind (who happens to be gay) thinks that it's not right that they are doing this too.

[Haunt]

I am currently half way through the New (X) Men Omibus, and you got BREAST questioning his Sexuality in issue #125.

I am no homophobe. However I am rather uneasy with marvel getting well established straight characters, and having them come out of the closet in the 616 universe.

Like even my best freind (who happens to be gay) thinks that it's not right that they are doing this too.

LOL.................................

[the4thpip]

Paging Dr. Freud ...

[FrogMan]

All of them. I mean come on, they run around in tights all day, so it wouldn't be that farfetched. ;)

[Mississippienne]

Someone on the Tbolts messageboard made the observation that the Masters of Evil totally had fairer hiring practices than the Avengers, and looking at their lineups (and that of their splinter group, the Thunderbolts) it's hard not to believe it. Machinesmith is gay and Mankiller is a lesbian. Skein/Gypsy Moth was shown as a bisexual in Tbolts. There's subtext with Blizzard, Andreas, and Joystick. In contrast, the Avengers have.... um, Living Lightning, who wasn't even out when he was part of the team. The obvious solution is just to put Fabian Nicieza on writing duties, and there'd be gay Avengers everywhere. ;)

[Dermie]

Someone on the Tbolts messageboard made the observation that the Masters of Evil totally had fairer hiring practices than the Avengers

Yeah, I've joked a few times that Crimson Cowl's MOE was a very equal-opportunity employer.

and looking at their lineups (and that of their splinter group, the Thunderbolts) it's hard not to believe it. Machinesmith is gay and Mankiller is a lesbian. Skein/Gypsy Moth was shown as a bisexual in Tbolts. There's subtext with Blizzard, Andreas, and Joystick.

And in at least Joystick and Swordsman's cases, the subtext is intentional--Fabian has made comments on the boards that Joystick and Andreas are both bisexual. Blizzard's gay-vibe was apparently unintentional--Fabian has said that he hadn't thought about Donnie's sexuality one way or the other, so he could be gay, straight or bi.

In contrast, the Avengers have.... um, Living Lightning, who wasn't even out when he was part of the team.

Moondragon has also come out as a lesbian, but like Miguel, she didn't come out until after she'd left active duty. Starfox may be bisexual (or pansexual), but if so it hasn't yet been established on-panel.

The obvious solution is just to put Fabian Nicieza on writing duties, and there'd be gay Avengers everywhere. ;)

Yeah, Fabian has been one of Marvel's most gay-friendly writers over the years (with Peter David being the other notable example), since he has often been willing to include characters of different orientations, and/or explore GLBT subject matter.

[StoneGold]

Does Machinesmith count as gay? Yeah, he wants to bang masculine robots, but does that really count as homosexual, or its own weird area of fetish?

[Dermie]

Does Machinesmith count as gay? Yeah, he wants to bang masculine robots, but does that really count as homosexual, or its own weird area of fetish?

Yes, Machinesmith is gay. He was gay as a human, and that has transfered over to his robot-self. And it isn't just male robots--he has also made a pass at Tony Stark.

[Homosensual]

Speaking as a gay writer who has created a number of GBLT characters in their own fictional universe, I really don't think it's a good idea to go around messing with established characters in this way. True, some people struggle with their sexuality, and only come out later on in life, but even so, where a character's sexuality has been clearly defined, how to introduce this change credibly is going to be a challenge, and not every creator could convincingly pull it off. Doing so for sensation's sake would just be crass, so if this were to be done, if would have to be done right. Maybe you could take someone whose sexuality is less defined in stone that some of the major Marvel icons?

[BloodRedSandman]

Does Machinesmith count as gay? Yeah, he wants to bang masculine robots, but does that really count as homosexual, or its own weird area of fetish?

Oh..... that has a it's own area of Fetish. Seriously, for 3 years I used to live with a guy that thought that the Transformers were hawt! :eek:

And now you can see why I have no interest in seeing the movie in 2007.

[Pyro]

So I've kind of skimmed through this thread. Can we get an updated, definitive list of recurring LGBT Marvel characters? (including deceased characters)

Gay:
Northstar
Anole
Wiccan
Hulkling
Freedom Ring
Living Lightning
Flatman
Colossus (Ultimate)
Angel (1602)
Rawhide Kid?

Lesbian:
Karma
Karolina Dean
Moondragon
Phyla-Vell
Amazon (aka Man-Killer)?

Bisexual:
Black Cat
Electro
Skein
Rictor?
Shatterstar?
Destiny?

Transgendered:
?

Would characters like Xavin and Mystique be defined as bigendered and bisexual? Since shape-changing is only possible in comics, can we make up a new word ("bigendered")? What exactly is transgendered? That always confuses me.

[Flâneur]

mystique - bi
sunfire( exiles) - lesbian
spiderwoman (exiles) - lesbian
phat- gay
vivisector - gay

though i wonder if most shapeshifters count as transgendered or intersex.

[rwe1138]

As many as possible. The gayer the better. Make Mine Marvelous.

[Powerboy]

Not true at all. but if a character has never been gay before...why start now??

That's what it comes down to for me too. Do whatever number of gay or bi characters you want to (hmm, that could be misconstrued), but don't take characters that are solidly established as hetero and suddenly make them gay. In other words, don't pull a Willow maneuver ala "Buffy" (even though that worked out fairly well). Now, if we are talking about the Ultimate Universe or some other reality besides the main Marvel universe, that's okay because it is an alternate version of the character.

[John Nowak]

Since shape-changing is only possible in comics, can we make up a new word ("bigendered")?

"Bigendered" isn't a new word, but it fits pretty well, meaning a person who shifts between male and female behavior.

The existing term for fish which change sex repeatedly is "successive hermaphrodite", which strikes me as clumsy.

How about "postgendered" for someone who physically switches between sexes and remains sexually active in both genders?

"Transgender" means to cross over from one gender to the other; "postgender" implies "beyond the point where gender strictly matters."

[Sparda]

Some characters are gay, some are not. Deal with it.

Like if you made spider-man gay or wolverine, it does'nt fit the character but if you did to Ice man ya it would make sense cause of all the hints. For what purpose there gonna get him out of the closet in the future, don't know or care and don't see how's that gonna make him a better character. He's a good character as it is with his personality and hitting on women he finds hot, and I just don't see him in the least bit gay. Sure it was some hints but those are writers. As of now he's not gay until Marvel decides they want to make him gay and think it'll make him an even more popular character.

Lol now collosus is gay, Kitty and spidey make a cute couple. Though coming from a straight guy as myself, I don't see what he finds sexy about wolverine. Guy's a gorrila with all that hair. In matter of fact alot of good looking people find Logan hot for some reason (what does Black widow see in him and along with 616 women that find him hot :confused: )

[Sandy Hausler]

Though coming from a straight guy as myself, I don't see what he finds sexy about wolverine. Guy's a gorrila with all that hair. In matter of fact alot of good looking people find Logan hot for some reason (what does Black widow see in him and along with 616 women that find him hot :confused: )

Must be the wolverine pheramones that drive women crazy. What a great mutant power.<g>

Sandy Hausler

[Xanrn]

Well Ultimate Wolverine has alot less hair than 616 Wolverine, also taller.

Xavin is so straight Superman couldn't bend him, I mean honestly he changes into a Woman to get into the pants of a hot lesbian! Dudes a goddam legend, an idol to be used as the true measure of being straight.

Also I was suprised to see the original idea for Hulking was him to be female pretending to be male. Cause that would make some damm interesting stories. I wonder if some future writer will change it in the future, ha. Then we can have House of M 2: Wiccan's lost his marbles too. Would make an interesting What If? to say the least.

On the a side note since when in the name of hell is Black Cat bi?... Cause that I got to see and someone has to tell Spidey, so the dude can get some Power of 3!

[Black Atom]

13. I think 13's a solid number. Anymore than that is just too many gay people for one universe. And personally, I'd like to see less Native Americans heroes, also.

Really, what a silly question.

[ddqfpluskick]

10%-30% demographic wise


nah just kidding. Actually I would rather have existing gay characters expanded upon. After all there is no point in adding more wood to the fire when all you have to do is stoke it.

Besides Runaways and X-static nearly every single gay/lesbian character is surrounded by heterofriends and relationships. It reminds me of Dogma where Chris Rock's chracter Rufus comments on how Jesus was black but the stuck 12 white brothers around him.

Take Karma and Northstar. They are secondary characters most of the time so there screen time is limited. Plus lets make them attract to strictly hetero-character so nothing could possibly develop.

That's why I got to give props to Ultimate X-men at least they are willing to make it an actual issue instead of shove it under the carpet as soon as it starts.

Karma: I'm a lesbian
Emma: Good for you. Now run along while clot up the issues with my boyfriend
Karma: Not fair!
Northstar: Just be lucky you're still alive and sane!

[Vegetarian Goat]

I'm not sure i like this poll. Why isn't there a button for "all of them"?

[rwe1138]

I'm not sure i like this poll. Why isn't there a button for "all of them"?

That's what I would vote for.

[Xothermic]

Marvel could sure use some more transsexual superheroes!

[rwe1138]

Marvel could sure use some more transsexual superheroes!

More? I don't remember any.

[Dermie]

On the a side note since when in the name of hell is Black Cat bi?

Since the Spidey/Black Cat: The Evil Men Do miniseries, where Felicia says something about it being a while since she's had a boyfriend or a girlfriend.

[ddqfpluskick]

In MC2 she dating and living with another woman.

[captain_unimpressive]

It sounds odd when you say it that way.
Like you want them to have some sort of quota.

Also I was suprised to see the original idea for Hulking was him to be female pretending to be male. Cause that would make some damm interesting stories. I wonder if some future writer will change it in the future, ha. Then we can have House of M 2: Wiccan's lost his marbles too. Would make an interesting What If? to say the least.

I think that, in that situation, the more appropriate title would be "Hulkling's Lost His Marbles". If you catch my drift.

Sorry, but it had to be said eventually.

[erickonasis]

Wow Just wow @ this topic.....I didn't know there were g