Has anyone just stopped caring about the Ultimates?

[Orbis De Ignis]

I know I have. With these kind of delays, you can't even remember the last comic by the time you pick up the next.

I just can't take something seriously that gives me under 10 minutes of entertainment in a 3 month period.

It is not worth the wait.

I've never seen a book "fade away" before first hand, but the Ultimates has seriously faded from the public eye.

[Young Avenger]

I haven't stopped caring. I'll buy Ultimates 2 #13 when it comes out. The best way I dealt with the delays is by not waiting. If I see it on the shelf I will buy it. The time gap between issues won't matter since I wasn't keeping track with any ship dates or checking the shipping list to see if it will ship that week.

[Monkey]

Less interested in it now, more interested in Ult Spiderman.
It could be worse, it could be Ult Wolverine vs Hulk.

[The Foreigner]

I know I have. With these kind of delays, you can't even remember the last comic by the time you pick up the next.

I just can't take something seriously that gives me under 10 minutes of entertainment in a 3 month period.

It is not worth the wait.

I've never seen a book "fade away" before first hand, but the Ultimates has seriously faded from the public eye.

Not in the least. Maybe my memory is simply better, because I've never had a problem not remembering the last issue.

It's an excellent series and I'll gladly wait if it means the art will be as consistently good as it has been.

[Arrjay]

I buy most things in the trade format excluding Uncanny and Adjectiveless so I'm used to waiting. It does seem like forever since Ultimates 2 Volume 1 came out though so I'm definitely feeling the delay on this one.

And cheers to Monkey for mentioning Ultimate Wolverine Versus Hulk.

I think I read somewhere that they've completley discarded that book now.

Is that true?

[carabas]

Considering that it still places in the top 10 whenever it comes out, I wouldn't say it has faded away.

It has always been late, so lateness isn't really enough to make me stop caring. Putting Joe Madureira and Jeph Loeb on the book with a mandate for less political and more superheroic stories, that does pretty much kill all interest I have in the book though.

[MaxofSteel]

Ultimates 2 #13 is still slated for release some time this month yes?

[Monkey]

And cheers to Monkey for mentioning Ultimate Wolverine Versus Hulk.

I think I read somewhere that they've completley discarded that book now.

I think we're still getting it, but not until they have them all done. I dunno how much the new series of Lost effected it or if something else held it up but I do know I wanna know what happens next!

It didn't help having the Hulk show up in the last few Ultimates, showing the effects of his travels!

[Gargus]

I didnt stop caring, I love the ultimates.

I havent forgotten anything about ultimates 2 yet because I havent read, Im waiting for last issue to come. I never read stories till I get them all.

I also dont complain about them not coming out on time. I want ultimates 2 alot and I can either wait or say to hell with it and not get it and probablly miss out on a good story just because I chose not to wait.

It isnt like you have a choice here on waiting or not waiting, you buy it when it comes out or not at all. No use being upset about it.

Besides its not like its the only comic being made. I have plenty of other comics to read, games to play, movies to watch, work and school. My life doesnt depend on one comic coming out on time.

But maybe if you complain enough eventually marvel will just rush the comics out the door and put out half assed material just to make you happy.

[Young Avenger]

And cheers to Monkey for mentioning Ultimate Wolverine Versus Hulk.

I think I read somewhere that they've completley discarded that book now.

Is that true?

Marvel canceled Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk. They will resolicit the series when the remaining issues are completed.

[rwsmith]

Not yet, but word is that Ultimates 3 is already running behind, and I will definitely not put up with the delays that I put up with through Ultimates 1 and 2 for Loeb and Mad.

[Young Avenger]

Not yet, but word is that Ultimates 3 is already running behind, and I will definitely not put up with the delays that I put up with through Ultimates 1 and 2 for Loeb and Mad.

WTF? They had a s***load of lead time. They should have had the whole series in the can by now.

[Omega Alpha]

Not yet, but word is that Ultimates 3 is already running behind, and I will definitely not put up with the delays that I put up with through Ultimates 1 and 2 for Loeb and Mad.

Yep. If they delay as much as Millar/Hitch, they better deliver stuff as good as Millar and Hitch's.

[Beast]

Not yet, but word is that Ultimates 3 is already running behind, and I will definitely not put up with the delays that I put up with through Ultimates 1 and 2 for Loeb and Mad.
It's not even been solicited yet, so they can't technically be behind until the book is even scheudled to be out. I'll wait and see before jumping to conclusions on this. :)

[XPac]

Ultimates is a book I have to appreciate in trades. I like it, but it just doesn't feel like an on-going series.

I have stopped caring about the singles, so in a way I stopped caring. But I still buy the trades if that means anything. I still like the story, but the way I have found to deal with the delays is to simply not deal with it altogether.

[ThePhenom]

I don't think I could stop caring, if I have to wait, then so be it... It's one of my favourite series, if not my favourite, and thus worth the wait. Plus I've read #12 over and over again :P...

[Orbis De Ignis]

Man, you guys are nuts. I can't believe you're happy to wait over 3 months for a 5-10 minute read...

It's this attitude that's allowed them to get away with this. Is fans were more bitchy, they wouldn't be able to delay comics as it would harm sales. People NEED to be better consumers, you don't have to put up with this kind of thing.

You don't HAVE to wait. It's not a fact of life. The only reason you're waiting is because you're so damn apathetic towards Quesada's complete laxness when it comes to deadlines. And the people who really do care about getting comics on time get screwed over even more.

"When it turns up in the store" is ridiculous. You're STILL Waiting whether you know when it comes out or not.

[Babylon23]

I buy the series in trade, so the delays have no real effect on me.

I did lost interest in the book with the second half of vol. 1. The invasion story kind of bored me. However, the first half of vol. 2 has peaked my interest again.

[carabas]

Man, you guys are nuts. I can't believe you're happy to wait over 3 months for a 5-10 minute read...

I doubt hthat there is actually anyone actively waiting for it, going to the shop each week asking 'Is it there yet?'.

And anyway, 10 minutes of Millar's Ultimates beats 2 hours of Byrne's timely Doom Patrol every time.

[Jeff F]

The Ultimates usually takes me about a half hour to read.

First I read it. Take a little time with it. Make sure I get a good grasp of the story.

On the second read through I pay more attention to the art. I love Hitch's art, and I find it's just really nice to look at.

Then I'll take a third read through, to admire whatever badass scene/s is/are in the book.

For instance, Issue 12 took me a long time to put down, simply because there was so much badass in it. I read Quicksilver's part at least five times.

Orbis, it seems to me that you're very frustrated with the lateness on the book. I understand where you're coming from. However, I don't think your claims on the attitudes of the consumers on this site are correct.

You are right that we don't need to put up with the lateness. It's a choice we make. The product that Millar and Hitch has proven worth the wait.

If you're accusing the posters of CBR of not being bitchy enough... well... I dunno man. That's just... well it's one of the reasons I don't post as much as I do. The silly amounts of negative ranting that goes on around here shows that when someone is not happy, they express it.

I don't think many people on these boards are apathetic towards much in the comic industry. That they routinely post their thoughts on an online message board would prove that much.

[MrPunch0]

Do I wish the book was on time? Of course.

Am I going to write it off because it's been constantly late? Hell no.

It's a great series. I've loved the single issues - but I'll love it even more when I buy the HC and enjoy it that way. And I wouldn't be shelling out the money for the HC if they hadn't kept the same creative team on the book all the way through.

Now Loeb and Joe Mad? I like their stuff - but no where near as much as I like Hitch and Millar's. Their book is going to have to be VERY good to keep me on the first time they go late.

[killerbass]

Do I wish the book was on time? Of course.

Am I going to write it off because it's been constantly late? Hell no.

It's a great series. I've loved the single issues - but I'll love it even more when I buy the HC and enjoy it that way. And I wouldn't be shelling out the money for the HC if they hadn't kept the same creative team on the book all the way through.

Now Loeb and Joe Mad? I like their stuff - but no where near as much as I like Hitch and Millar's. Their book is going to have to be VERY good to keep me on the first time they go late.

I couldn't agree with you more...

Good luck Mr. Loeb and Mr. Mad -- you've got some mighty big shoes to fill. I will be buying it and reading it with an open mind, but I don't know how you are going to compete with Millar and Hitch.

It would be like fighting Ali, or Joe Louis, or Rocky Marciano when they were in their prime. Crap -- now I am getting all metaphorical...

--Tom

[The Foreigner]

Man, you guys are nuts. I can't believe you're happy to wait over 3 months for a 5-10 minute read...

If it only takes you that long to read it, that's your problem. I spend a lot more time on each issue.



It's this attitude that's allowed them to get away with this. Is fans were more bitchy, they wouldn't be able to delay comics as it would harm sales. People NEED to be better consumers, you don't have to put up with this kind of thing.

Pray tell, how does being bitchy make Hitch draw faster?


You don't HAVE to wait. It's not a fact of life. The only reason you're waiting is because you're so damn apathetic towards Quesada's complete laxness when it comes to deadlines. And the people who really do care about getting comics on time get screwed over even more. "When it turns up in the store" is ridiculous. You're STILL Waiting whether you know when it comes out or not.

No, I don't "HAVE" to wait-- If I really wanted to piss Quesada off, I'd stop buying Ultimates and show him that I won't stand for a late product. That would certainly prove a point; but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to read a favorite series of mine and be supporting two of of my favorite creators.

And the thing is, I don't schedule my life around The Ultimates, so I don't mind simply buying it when it shows up in stores. There's nothing "ridiculous" about it.

[brundlefly]

The long delays have probably lessened my interest compared to if it were on time or I were reading it in trade form, realistically. Don't get me wrong; I still love the series (it's the only ongoing Ultimate Marvel title that I read) but the delays between issues did reduce my enthusiasm for the title a bit. I literally did a double-take when I saw the latest issue on shelves. "Oh, right. The Ultimates." It's not that I didn't remember what was going on, just had almost forgotten that they had still two issues to go before its conclusion. Same thing happened with Planetary and it's long delays between issues. I love both titles, but maybe should have waited for the trades since the time between issues was so long compared to other comics. I put up with it instead of dropping the title in both instances because the comics themselves were so good that I couldn't imagine not picking them up. Guess it's similar to an ongoing serial TV show suddently starting to air repeats and then doing it long enough that you stop caring as much as to whether a new episode is coming on because you just become accustomed to the yet another repeat every week. A mangled analogy, I realize.

In the end, I loved Millar/Hitch on Ultimates, despite the book's delays, but I have utterly no interest in the new creative team of Loeb/Joe Mad. So I don't really care if Ultimates Vol 3 ships on time, since it won't be affecting me.

[Jonathan]

Ultimates 2 #13 is still slated for release some time this month yes?

As of right now, Marvel.com has The Ultimates 2 13 as "in stores" on January 31, 2007. (http://marvel.com/catalog/?book_title=Ultimates+2) I think we'll be lucky if we even see it then. :(

[IMJ]

I am indeed someone who doesn't care about that book anymore either. I'll pick up the last issue just to finish the run, but when I DO buy them they feel disjointed as hell, and really Millar is wearing thin on me as it is.

That being said, I'll buy the last issue just to have the full run finished, but I'm not gonna bother with Ultimates 3 believe it or not (new creative team or not).
I'm doing the same thing with Civil War (to finish the story) but after that I'm done with anything that Millar writes. I could care less about his recent interview where he talks about this "big 32 issue thing" or whatever. Millar always huffs and puffs, but when one of his projects is finally done, they are always anticlimatic IMO. He should quit hyping, and quit the commentary on the political state of the U.S. and just write some damn comic books.

[The Foreigner]

Millar always huffs and puffs, but when one of his projects is finally done, they are always anticlimatic IMO. He should quit hyping, and quit the commentary on the political state of the U.S. and just write some damn comic books.

I personally think Millar is one of the only writers that actually delivers with his climaxes.

The finale of Ultimates volume one is one of the greatest comic book battles of all time, in my opinion.

[Mister Mets]

It's the best book being published today, so I still care.

Although I do hope Millar/ Hitch's next project is timelier.

[Don]

I gotta go with Orbis on this one.

"Rising Stars" started annoying me when we got halfway through, and it started acting like they were forgetting that they had a few more issues to put out.

It's a rising tend, folks. I love that the artists are doing their best to give us the absolute best they can, and when it finally comes out, it usually knocks our socks off.

But don't tell me you're going to put out a monthly book, and then halfway through it becomes an "every other month" book, and then "every three months," until it's like BrundleFly said: "Oh, yeah, Ultimates. I think I was collecting that...."

When you start with a promise of a monthly book, and then change the agreement halfway through the series, you're saying that you don't respect me as a supporter of your work. You're saying that, "It doesn't matter if I take extra time, because I know they'll buy it when I finally do get around to it." If you had three issues done before the series started, why didn't #4 come out the fourth month? What in God's name were you doing those first three months?

No, my life doesn't revolve around this or any other comic, and yes, I've greatly enjoyed the stories so far. But if we used the same ethic where we work, how long do you think we'd stay employed, and able to plunk down our hard-earned $3 for the next issue when (if) it comes out?

[Orbis De Ignis]

Pray tell, how does being bitchy make Hitch draw faster?

But this is an extremely stupid thing to say!

Of course it does! Haven't you ever worked, in, you know, a job? As great as internal motivation is, if everyone was told to get something done "Y'know, whenever" would they get it done anywhere near as quickly than if they were given a deadline?

If Hitch can't get it done on time, get another artist. I don't care how good Hitch is, there are ALWAYS other artists. if there are none in Marvel currently, hire a knew one. You are the one making people like Hitch feel as if they can do as they please.

No. This attitude is just darn right stupid. It doesn't make you look artsy or appreciative, it just looks damn silly.


No, I don't "HAVE" to wait-- If I really wanted to piss Quesada off, I'd stop buying Ultimates and show him that I won't stand for a late product. That would certainly prove a point; but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to read a favorite series of mine and be supporting two of of my favorite creators.


So in other words; you're saying you DO have to wait? You not buying it means nothing to them. Quesada doesn't have 50c for the vending machine. Wow. If you actually stir something up, it means a lot more to them, since they potentially will loose a lot more sames as well as certain people(Quesada) having to deal with a lot more people telling him what to do.

Nothing bothers me more than this "We can't do anything!!!" attitude. You can ALWAYS do something. Whether you want to stick out your neck to risk being branded as a "Whiner" or "Hater", the Internet's worst insult, is another thing. If enough people bitch, there's a good chance things change. This has ALWAYS been the way which is ALWAYS why people demonise whining and bitching - people like Quesada blatantly don't want to have to answer to people and actually go to effort to please people. This is not a "Conspiracy", it's something that's true with just about anything with online interaction.

For example, look at Don Murphy & Co. and the new Transformers movie - it's the same tactic. Instead of actually making an effort to please as many of the fans as possible, they just bitch about the "Haters" so a large portion of the fans immediately presumes the more mature role is obviously opposing the "Haters".

Quesada has been known to tear into fans. It's the same rubbish. Don't give me this "Hard job" crap - that's no excuse. If it's too hard a job, hire a second person to help do it or find a better person altogether. If Quesada wants that level of control, he should be prepared to do the workload that comes with it and keep his cool and listen to fans.

The bottom line is, they are taking advantage of the situation you describe. You might not be able to do without your fix, but there are others who easily can who can be swayed by simple vocal persuasion - famously known as "Word of Mouth".


I doubt hthat there is actually anyone actively waiting for it, going to the shop each week asking 'Is it there yet?'.

How can you not be waiting on it? Every issue ends on a cliffhanger! How can you just not want to know the conclusion until it appears in the shops? Yes, you have to wait a certain amount of time anyway but that doesn't make ANY amount of time excusable.

Think about what you're saying!

[The Foreigner]

But this is an extremely stupid thing to say!

Of course it does! Haven't you ever worked, in, you know, a job? As great as internal motivation is, if everyone was told to get something done "Y'know, whenever" would they get it done anywhere near as quickly than if they were given a deadline?

So complaining on message boards to strangers makes someone's drawing hand move faster. I never made that connection; thank you for clarifying.


If Hitch can't get it done on time, get another artist.

No thanks.


I don't care how good Hitch is

I do.


You are the one making people like Hitch feel as if they can do as they please.

Yep.


No. This attitude is just darn right stupid. It doesn't make you look artsy or appreciative, it just looks damn silly.

I enjoy the writing and art of The Ultimates enough that I don't mind the delays. Seems simple enough. Not sure where the whole "darn right stupid" angle comes into play, but whatever.



So in other words; you're saying you DO have to wait?

Yes, if I want the product, I do have to wait. And I don't mind that at all.


You not buying it means nothing to them.

Which is probably why I continue to buy the series despite it's lateness.


Nothing bothers me more than this "We can't do anything!!!" attitude. You can ALWAYS do something.

Hmm. Where exactly did this come from?

That was why I said "No, I don't "HAVE" to wait-- If I really wanted to piss Quesada off, I'd stop buying Ultimates and show him that I won't stand for a late product. That would certainly prove a point; but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to read a favorite series of mine and be supporting two of of my favorite creators."

Of course you CAN do something about it.

I just choose not to.


Whether you want to stick out your neck to risk being branded as a "Whiner" or "Hater", the Internet's worst insult, is another thing. If enough people bitch, there's a good chance things change.

Go ahead-- bitch, whine, and hate away.

I'm perfectly content with my Millar/Hitch Ultimates issues every 3 months.


The bottom line is, they are taking advantage of the situation you describe. You might not be able to do without your fix, but there are others who easily can who can be swayed by simple vocal persuasion - famously known as "Word of Mouth".

Mmkay then.


How can you not be waiting on it? Every issue ends on a cliffhanger! How can you just not want to know the conclusion until it appears in the shops? Yes, you have to wait a certain amount of time anyway but that doesn't make ANY amount of time excusable.

What he said doesn't dispute that. He never (And I never) said anything about "not wanting to know the conclusion." I simply don't mind waiting several months to find out.


Think about what you're saying!

Okay.

[overmind]

I'm going to say something controversial....

Here it goes... 'ahem'



Bryan Hitch.... NOT THAT GOOD!:D


hAHHAA!

[BloodRedSandman]

Ultimates is a book I have to appreciate in trades. I like it, but it just doesn't feel like an on-going series.
I totally agree with you there.
If I was still collecting single issues, I would of dropped it a long time ago.

[Jeff F]

If Hitch can't get it done on time, get another artist. I don't care how good Hitch is, there are ALWAYS other artists. if there are none in Marvel currently, hire a knew one. You are the one making people like Hitch feel as if they can do as they please.

No. This attitude is just darn right stupid. It doesn't make you look artsy or appreciative, it just looks damn silly.


Ultimates is not Ultimates without Millar and Hitch. No other artist will do. No other writer will do. It would be like Planetary without Ellis and Cassaday.

Those are the creators. These are their babies.

Hitch can do as he pleases. When it comes to drawing pretty Ultimates comic books anyhow.

I appreciate your passion for your viewpoint.

However, you really need to calm down. Your view point isn't universally correct for everyone.

My view on this doesn't make me look stupid. It makes you think I look stupid. There is a huge difference.

[Roons]

I couldn't agree more with The Foreigner and Jeff F, the quality of the Ultimates justifies the lateness for me. Of course I'd like it sooner but as someone already pointed out it's not like we're all sitting staring into the comic shop window every 10 minutes looking for the new ultimates book. You don't have to go bat sh1t about the regularity of the book just stop buying it if it bothers you that much, there are plenty more books out there that are out every 3 weeks without fail. Or even better pick up 52 if getting a quick fix is the be-all-and-end-all for you.

p.s. you really should spend more than 5 or 10 minutes reading Ultimates when it's finally sent out :p

[Magneto Rocks]

Of course the quality ALWAYS supercedes the lateness. Especially when it's The Ultimates. Without doubt.

Anyway, Hitch has finished issue 13 now (and is getting started on his 2008 project soon, so the first few of it should be on time anyway...) so we should definitely see it on January 31st.

Hang on, The Ultimates and Civil War ending on the same day?

<ULTRA NERDGASM>

[MrPunch0]

Hang on, The Ultimates and Civil War ending on the same day?

<ULTRA NERDGASM>


Nah - Hitch may be done with his part ... but we can still count on McNiven to blow his deadline one more time. :D

[gorthon616]

Ultimates is not Ultimates without Millar and Hitch. No other artist will do. No other writer will do. It would be like Planetary without Ellis and Cassaday.

Those are the creators. These are their babies.

I find that to be curious. Is it really their "baby"? I don't really get why Ultimates fans seem to have such an obsession with Millar/Hitch on Ultimates, and only them.

I think the last Ultimates mini-series was been excellent. But at the end of the day it's just an Ultimate Avengers story. Not to decry it for what it is, but simply to state what it is. This isn't planetary, and good as it may be as time has gone by it's not as ground breaking as it seems. It's as much an homage to older stories as it breaks ground and reaches new territory.

That being said, I'm still interested in the finale and (honestly) quite interested in the new Loeb/Mad team that's on board.

[streator]

i read ultimates in trades. the monthly delays don't really affect me.

that being said, i'm looking forward to reading the second half of ultimates 2 whenever the trade comes out. so no, i haven't stopped caring about the book.

[lonesomefool]

I'll stop caring when Loeb and Madueria take over, Ultimates may as well be cancelled when those two take over.

[Thundergod]

Im gonna pick up 13 whenever it comes out (maybe december 2007) because i´d like to have the entire run, and i´d like to know what happens with thor loki and perun (i´d like an explanation).

But, Í aint buying vol.3 I dont want to start colecting something now and picking up #2 ten years form now.

[The Foreigner]

I find that to be curious. Is it really their "baby"? I don't really get why Ultimates fans seem to have such an obsession with Millar/Hitch on Ultimates, and only them.


Well, I have yet to see a writer or artist nail the characters as well as Millar and Hitch.

Pretty much every time they've shown up in any other books, I haven't liked the way they've been characterized (Thor in Ultimate Six was just plain stupid; I guess I've never really bought Bendis' use of them as elitist jerks), and I haven't dug too many other artists versions of them (Immonen's Ultimates appearance in UXM wasn't too shabby, but I wasn't much of a fan of Bagley's versions in USM, and Hairsine's Ultimate Six was plain ugly).

[carabas]

I think Warren Ellis did a pretty good job with all of them in the Galactus trilogy.

[saintsaucey]

Well, I have yet to see a writer or artist nail the characters as well as Millar and Hitch.

Pretty much every time they've shown up in any other books, I haven't liked the way they've been characterized (Thor in Ultimate Six was just plain stupid; I guess I've never really bought Bendis' use of them as elitist jerks), and I haven't dug too many other artists versions of them (Immonen's Ultimates appearance in UXM wasn't too shabby, but I wasn't much of a fan of Bagley's versions in USM, and Hairsine's Ultimate Six was plain ugly).

cassady's covers on ultimate six was terrible.

im lookingforward to ultimates three, i just wish they would put out 2 #13 already

[ThePhenom]

Whether you want to stick out your neck to risk being branded as a "Whiner" or "Hater", the Internet's worst insult, is another thing. If enough people bitch, there's a good chance things change.
Then why haven't we seen an issue on time since like Ultimate 2 #4?

[Young Avenger]

Then why haven't we seen an issue on time since like Ultimate 2 #4?

Really? I thought the series began running late after Ultimates 2 #8.

[ultimatespyder20]

I'll get Ultimates 2 #13, but yeah I know what you mean. I have stop caring about them. It does seem like they have faded away, and aren't even part of the Ultimate Universe, the issues are great and everything, but I'm getting sick of delays. When does #13 come out anyway, like not until January.

Alec

[carabas]

The lateness does indeed hurt not so much the Ultimates book, but the coherence of the Ultimate Universe.
Several of the key players are stuck in limbo for months (years?) on end, which makes it hard to tell when things are supposed to happen.

[Regicide]

I want Hitch to take his time finely crafting each issue because this is a book that was clearly written for the trades, the single issues are subsidizing the trade format, like micropayments for each chapter of a book.
It will still be a great set of tpb's in 20 years, so if you think you can complain hard enough to make Hitch slop down some lines faster, well, you're not really helping, you're demanding a sub-par effort for the sake of timeliness that would ultimately hurt the books legacy.

In 20 years nobody is going to remember the erratic publishing schedule, it ultimately doesn't matter that much. You can demand your comics be published on a daily basis if thats your top priority, with a conveyor belt art team in constant crunch mode thats too burned out to even meet their own personal levels of creativity, but don't expect a modicum of quality in the comics you read.

I was never under the impression that I would be getting the Ultimates on a monthly basis. If it takes Hitch three months to actually draw in the minute detail that other artists simply try to convey with style, I wouldnt even want it on a monthly basis.

[The Foreigner]

I want Hitch to take his time finely crafting each issue because this is a book that was clearly written for the trades, the single issues are subsidizing the trade format, like micropayments for each chapter of a book.
It will still be a great set of tpb's in 20 years, so if you think you can complain hard enough to make Hitch slop down some lines faster, well, you're not really helping, you're demanding a sub-par effort for the sake of timeliness that would ultimately hurt the books legacy.

In 20 years nobody is going to remember the erratic publishing schedule, it ultimately doesn't matter that much. You can demand your comics be published on a daily basis if thats your top priority, with a conveyor belt art team in constant crunch mode thats too burned out to even meet their own personal levels of creativity, but don't expect a modicum of quality in the comics you read.

I was never under the impression that I would be getting the Ultimates on a monthly basis. If it takes Hitch three months to actually draw in the minute detail that other artists simply try to convey with style, I wouldnt even want it on a monthly basis.

Actually, thats what I love about the writing of The Ultimates-- It doesnt feel "written for the trade" like some other books. Each issue packs enough characterization, plot, and action (Or at least, plenty of solid build up towards action), that I enjoy reading each issue as it is released-- I dont feel like a single page, or even a single panel, is wasted in telling the story. There are some books when I put down an issue and think "Thats it?" but thats never been the case with Ultimates.

[Lance]

I'll stop caring when Loeb and Madueria take over, Ultimates may as well be cancelled when those two take over.

You said it, man.

I won't be getting vol. 3 or 4.

[KAy]

It will still be a great set of tpb's in 20 years, so if you think you can complain hard enough to make Hitch slop down some lines faster, well, you're not really helping, you're demanding a sub-par effort for the sake of timeliness that would ultimately hurt the books legacy.

In 20 years nobody is going to remember the erratic publishing schedule, it ultimately doesn't matter that much. You can demand your comics be published on a daily basis if thats your top priority, with a conveyor belt art team in constant crunch mode thats too burned out to even meet their own personal levels of creativity, but don't expect a modicum of quality in the comics you read.

You just took the words straight out of my mouth.

[Sgt. Preston]

I don't mind waiting for the Ultimates cause everytime an issue comes out it shows me it was well worth the wait....much like Planetary. Each issue is brilliantly entertaining.

I'd rather the creators take their time crafting something epic then pawn off some deadline spawned drivel passed off as something I should care about.

I echo similar concerns to others in this thread regarding the upcoming Vol. 3, but will reserve judgment until we see it in print. If anything, it should be on time with the lead it's gotten from this volume. Whether it will be as good or not remains to be seen.

[Orbis De Ignis]

Then why haven't we seen an issue on time since like Ultimate 2 #4?

Read the other replies in this thread and figure it out for yourself.

Honestly, the quality supersedes the lateness, what nonsense. Waiting 4 months for a 10 minute read.

[streator]

You said it, man.

I won't be getting vol. 3 or 4.

i would have to agree at this point.

i'm not planning on following the ultimates once millar and hitch are done with the title.

[spyridona]

Man, you guys are nuts. I can't believe you're happy to wait over 3 months for a 5-10 minute read...

It's this attitude that's allowed them to get away with this. Is fans were more bitchy, they wouldn't be able to delay comics as it would harm sales. People NEED to be better consumers, you don't have to put up with this kind of thing.

You don't HAVE to wait. It's not a fact of life. The only reason you're waiting is because you're so damn apathetic towards Quesada's complete laxness when it comes to deadlines. And the people who really do care about getting comics on time get screwed over even more.

"When it turns up in the store" is ridiculous. You're STILL Waiting whether you know when it comes out or not.

QUOTED for the truth that hurts. Stop being sheep, people. Hitch's art is almost worth it, but from what I gather, it's more MILLAR'S fault. Hitch can't draw if he doesn't have the script ON TIME.

I don't get it. Characters who barely develop, plots that are action movie fodder. There's nothing epic. People are going to look back at this and shake their heads.

[Monkey]

There's nothing epic. People are going to look back at this and shake their heads.

I very much doubt that is going to happen. Miller and Hitch's run on the Ultimates is a high point in comics right now.

[Regicide]

QUOTED for the truth that hurts. Stop being sheep, people. Hitch's art is almost worth it, but from what I gather, it's more MILLAR'S fault. Hitch can't draw if he doesn't have the script ON TIME.

I don't get it. Characters who barely develop, plots that are action movie fodder. There's nothing epic. People are going to look back at this and shake their heads.

There are two ways to go about dealing with detractors of the artistic endeavors I enjoy. The first is to take the high road, and to say that we are unique individuals with ingrainly personal histories in the medium and particular tastes. The second is to tell you that your head is so far up your ass that you can't read anything.

It's certainly movie fodder of some sort, and everyone points out the cinematic 'widescreen' aspect of Hitch's art. But were it filmed faithfully to the script, using the images as storyboards, I think it would be the greatest series of comic book movies made thus far.
Regarding the characters, thats certainly arguable. Though in storytelling terms we haven't spent a great deal of time with the team, were you a novice Marvel reader then I'd say Hank Pym has developed into something else entirely from who he was in the second issue, wouldn't you? What I feel is more important is do the characters feel like distinct individuals? I think they do, and knowing their histories and the respective differences in their personalities helps me understand how they are going to react in any given situation, and unlike their 616 counterparts I haven't seen any of them act contrary to this yet. And most importantly, do you like the characters? I do. I would have a drink with Tony Stark any day of the week.

It has an 'epic' feel because of how its boiled the characters down to the constituent fundamentals of their 40 to 60 year histories and compressed it into a few dozen issues. It then takes advantage of the possibilities in the Ultimate line and embellishes on some of the core things that haven't really been explored in decades, like Rogers having to adjust to being a man out of time, Stark being an eccentric billionaire playboy with a drinking problem driven to philanthropy because he is dying, Hulk being the darker, repressed aspects of Banners psyche. etc. Also, though not terribly true to his regular counterpart and somewhat catering to one of Millars pet issues, I like that Thor is a leftist anti-authoritarian. It's humorous to bounce that sort of disposition off of a straight man like Cap or Nick Fury.

The reason I am planning to pick up the first few issues of Loeb's arc is because I like the characters as Millar has set them up to such a degree that it almost seems like it would take a concentrated effort to screw it up. You just imagine a situation to put them in and they kind of write themselves, so heres hoping he doesn't take this silver platter and serve up a steaming pile of $#!+.

[BizarroBeachHead]

There are two ways to go about dealing with detractors of the artistic endeavors I enjoy........
The third way, the one I often go with, is realizing that there are two types of people:

People that think Mark Millar is a great comic book writer; and people who think Millar is one step away from being a hack.

Personaly, I don't think there's anything special about Millar's writing. He's had entertaining work to be sure, but being the "Jerry Bruckheimer of comics" isn't exactly a compliment. It obviously appeals to lots of people, but not to me. His run on Ultimates is probably his most notable piece of work, and that's mostly due to the characters he's using and the political angle he's worked into them.

As for me, I am burned out on Ultimates, but not because it takes so long to come out(though that doesn't help) but rather, I think Millar's been writing on autopilot for the the entire second half of the series. Everything about it has been pretty typical and boring, but I might just think that because I read this story years ago when it was titled Authority.

Hitch's work is wonderful, and I don't really care how long he takes to draw. It's not a monthly title, it's being made for the collection.

[carabas]

You just imagine a situation to put them in and they kind of write themselves, so heres hoping he doesn't take this silver platter and serve up a steaming pile of $#!+.

I for one will be very surprised if Loeb won't have Thor talking in pseudo-Old English and turn Cap into a boyscout..

[overmind]

The third way, the one I often go with, is realizing that there are two types of people:

People that think Mark Millar is a great comic book writer; and people who think Millar is one step away from being a hack.

Personaly, I don't think there's anything special about Millar's writing. He's had entertaining work to be sure, but being the "Jerry Bruckheimer of comics" isn't exactly a compliment. It obviously appeals to lots of people, but not to me. His run on Ultimates is probably his most notable piece of work, and that's mostly due to the characters he's using and the political angle he's worked into them.

Hitch's work is wonderful, and I don't really care how long he takes to draw. It's not a monthly title, it's being made for the collection.

Haven't read so much Millar, the first 10 or so issues of Ultimate X-Men were OK, but seemed to lack certain story neccesities. Wolverine just seemed to change heart out of nowhere!

Civil War.... Sucks.

That Wolverine Enemy Of The State was the only thing I think was really cool that he wrote.

[Magneto Rocks]

The third way, the one I often go with, is realizing that there are two types of people:

People that think Mark Millar is a great comic book writer; and people who think Millar is one step away from being a hack.

Personaly, I don't think there's anything special about Millar's writing. He's had entertaining work to be sure, but being the "Jerry Bruckheimer of comics" isn't exactly a compliment. It obviously appeals to lots of people, but not to me. His run on Ultimates is probably his most notable piece of work, and that's mostly due to the characters he's using and the political angle he's worked into them.


I think it's almost inarguable that his most notable piece of work is Civil War. Love it or hate it, it's what he'll be remembered for alongside The Ultimates.

[brundlefly]

Haven't read so much Millar, the first 10 or so issues of Ultimate X-Men were OK, but seemed to lack certain story neccesities. Wolverine just seemed to change heart out of nowhere!

Civil War.... Sucks.

That Wolverine Enemy Of The State was the only thing I think was really cool that he wrote.

I agree, as far as that his non-Marvel work is so superior to his Marvel work (with the exception of The Ultimates). You might check out his 12-issue run on THE AUTHORITY, plus the 6-issue miniseries WANTED as well as the DC mini SUPERMAN: RED SON. Those three are up with The Ultimates as some of his best work. I have been very disappointed with the quality of the rest his Marvel work (Ult. X-Men, Wolverine, MK Spidey, Civil War so far), by comparison.



I think it's almost inarguable that his most notable piece of work is Civil War. Love it or hate it, it's what he'll be remembered for alongside The Ultimates.

That's true, due to Civil War's endless hypehypehype and lasting MU aftereffects. Pity, since The Ultimates is far better in every way than Civil War has been so far.

[BizarroBeachHead]

I think it's almost inarguable that his most notable piece of work is Civil War. Love it or hate it, it's what he'll be remembered for alongside The Ultimates.

There a lot of things that can be said about Civil War, but I will be concise.

Ultimates is a direct commentary on the current political climate in which it was written.

Civil War is a superhero slugfest with "politics" no deeper than gun control shoe horned in.

Also, as I understand it, there is a much lower division of people who love and people who hate Ultimates compared to Civil War. Though part of that is probably because Civil War is a company crossover, which is damning enough evidence in it's own right.

Ultimates will definately be remembered as Millar's seminal Marvel work, way above Civil "another chapter in Marvel's summer crossovers" War.

[Cayman]

Not at all. I enjoy each issue.

[Glaucon]

You know, I usually get upset during the wait, but once I read the next issue I love the entire series all over again. The most entertaining comic for your dollar, at least for me.

[King Of Pain]

I couldn't agree more with The Foreigner and Jeff F, the quality of the Ultimates justifies the lateness for me. Of course I'd like it sooner but as someone already pointed out it's not like we're all sitting staring into the comic shop window every 10 minutes looking for the new ultimates book. You don't have to go bat sh1t about the regularity of the book just stop buying it if it bothers you that much, there are plenty more books out there that are out every 3 weeks without fail. Or even better pick up 52 if getting a quick fix is the be-all-and-end-all for you.

p.s. you really should spend more than 5 or 10 minutes reading Ultimates when it's finally sent out :p

I don't understand this acceptance of what I can only call "LACK OF PROFESSIONALISM" from both Marvel as a publisher and the writer & artist as professionals you're hired to do a job in a set amount of time, if they need more time then don't publish till a certin amount of material is available to do so - if a years delay is deemed necessary, then delay a year, only advertising it when it can meet publishing dates!!!

Don/t subject your market (fans) just because you can by stating creative delays, that's bull S@%t. I expect pro's to be just that professional and commit to a date stated.

I work in TV & film production, no way can a producer constantly miss deadly dates - no matter how good a show, ether the numer of episodes is reduced or show postponed till it meets it's requirements - not to mention how much everyone stands to loose in re-runs & DVD etc... markets after a series ends it's initial run.
Dont just state "I wait till the cows come home" you keep up that attitude and you'll see how tardiness starts to creep into other publications and it becomes the norm to miss dates & have incomplete runs of books/

Incredible gall of Marvel and the creators both, to treat people in such a manner & charge so much for our hard erned money, UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR! - dont incourage this by not complaining each and every time or even stop purchasing just to make a statement that all will understand - it's not profitable in making people wait indefinately ,for the goods as promised

Pubish in a timely manner or Don't publish @ all dammit, choose.

[lonesomefool]

I understand where your coming from in terms of lateness, truth is I havent bought a single Ultimates issue to date, I only get it in trades. Same for other notable late titles like Astonishing X-Men, etc.

That said, I would rather wait an extra week or so so that a title I do buy, for instance Daredevil, so that it could come out looking good. I mean no disrespect to DC, but some of the stuff they pulled last year around I.C. where 2-3 artists would be drawing one issue of one title was crap.

You mention yourself the high price of comics, but I can tell you I would rather pay $2.99 for a comic that has good art and writing and comes out a week or two late rather than a 2.99 comic with good writing, but rushed, sometimes ugly art.

As for the producer/TV analogy you used, well I agree that if someone has a reputation for being late they shouldnt be put on a weekly TV series, but look at Ultimates. I mean seriously if your gonna have one book be late at Marvel, it can be Ultimates. It isnt an essential title, no other books are being held up for it, no one is getting "hurt" by Ultimates delays other than Marvel's bottom line when it doesnt get published and fans who are waiting. Does it suck that it's delayed the way it is, yes, but at least Marvel didnt stick Hitch on a flagship title like Spider-Man or X-men, the two main titles of the Ultimate line.

Late creators should generally be sauntered to "special" projects, and I actually see that happening. Look at some of the well known late creators

Hitch-Doing Ultimates and then a mini series
Van Sciver-Doing a Green Lantern mini series

the list goes on and on. Writers and artists who have a reputation for being late are being pushed off monthly books and onto "special" projects now like minis.

And let's be honest, the next book Hitch does, people SHOULD know by now it's probably gonna be late. So if you hate the lateness that much then dont buy it, otherwise people just end up looking like girls that take back a guy who cheats and then act shocked when he does it again.

[Mister Mets]

I agree, as far as that his non-Marvel work is so superior to his Marvel work (with the exception of The Ultimates). You might check out his 12-issue run on THE AUTHORITY, plus the 6-issue miniseries WANTED as well as the DC mini SUPERMAN: RED SON. Those three are up with The Ultimates as some of his best work. I have been very disappointed with the quality of the rest his Marvel work (Ult. X-Men, Wolverine, MK Spidey, Civil War so far), by comparison.



That's true, due to Civil War's endless hypehypehype and lasting MU aftereffects. Pity, since The Ultimates is far better in every way than Civil War has been so far.

I've enjoyed his non-Marvel work, but believe his strongest work was for Marvel (MK Spider-Man, Ultimates, Ultimates 2.)

I do agree that Ultimates is better than Civil War, and believe it'll be popular twenty years from now.

[Regicide]

I'm going to buy the last issue anyway. I'm sure you will too.

Christ, after this long of a wait, Joe Mad should have six issues in the can. They may as well make it a regular series so I can subscribe to it. My town doesnt have any comic stores left.

[Brad Barton]

I'm going to buy the last issue anyway. I'm sure you will too.

Christ, after this long of a wait, Joe Mad should have six issues in the can. They may as well make it a regular series so I can subscribe to it. My town doesnt have any comic stores left.

Of course everyone will buy the last issues, most of the guys who bitch and say they won't buy already have it marked off on their pull-list.

Look, I hate the delays too, they're annoying and they really cripple any sense of immersion in the story, but Ultimates is still a quality book, and besides i wanna see Thor and Hulk double team Loki and stomp his ass...:D

[red-handed]

i can actually remember the last issue
but after the final issue of the arc which is due out this wednesday
i think i will not be picking up "season 3"
the wait is unessary, just like with soulfire and the all star batman
the wait is also the reason why i didn't pick up daredevil:father
i will just get the collected issues if they make it...:rolleyes:

[gravling]

of course not. folks, it's a comic, if it comes out late it comes out late, if you don't like reading comics you know have delayes - get the TPB's.

stuff like complaining about delays gives people who read comics - and do have a life outside of reading comics - a bad name.

[Billy Parker]

of course not. folks, it's a comic, if it comes out late it comes out late, if you don't like reading comics you know have delayes - get the TPB's.

stuff like complaining about delays gives people who read comics - and do have a life outside of reading comics - a bad name.

Exaaactly!

[cowboyfunk]

stuff like complaining about delays gives people who read comics - and do have a life outside of reading comics - a bad name.

Maybe whining about it gives comic readers a bad name...but there's nothing wrong with calling out company on its lack of professionalism.

King Of Pain is absolutely right...deadlines are essential. If Hitch needs three months to pencil a book...fine. Marvel needs to solicit the book as coming out once every three months. But this 2 months, 6 months, 9 months nonsense is laughable. People should point it out and laugh. Marvel should be a joke.

[cowboyfunk]

In the spirit of capitalism, I retract my last statement. Marvel should only be a joke provided other companies step up and make them look stupid. If Marvel is going to be sloppy...other companies should be neat. In the long wrong, the sloppy competitor will be forced to get its act together.

[Xothermic]

I can't believe it took 8 months for one issue to come out. Yes, I stopped caring 7 months ago.

[Gargus]

I havent.

I still want to read and I still want to buy it. And so do the rest of you.

Anyone who would buy all 12 issues and get disgusted that the final issue isnt on time and say they wont buy it is lying. Even if you dont buy, you will still read it in some form.

So what if its not on time? Its not like its the only comic in the world, and even if it was waiting would still be ok.

My life doesnt revolve around a comic coming out. I still have games to play, school and a job.

And calling marvel sloppy is a bit stupid. Look at all they do put out on time, this is a drop in the bucket. This is what I call the real world, and in the real world nothing everything goes according to plan 100&#37; of the time. Things happen, mistakes are made and life goes on. Complaining this much about 1 comic is a pathetic and sad waste of time. But then again, people do love any excuse possible to bitch.

[XPac]

I thought Millars work on the Ultimates was some of the best stuff he's done in Marvel (I prefer it to Civil War). But that said, I do think the book has lost momentum.

The last story arc was awesome... but for me I felt satisfied with issue 12. The big stuff is over so I can't imagine 13 being anything but anti-climactic.

And Millars stuff is basically over, so I'm worried about whether the next arc will be as good. Loeb can be kinda hit and miss.

So while was a big fan of the past Ultimates stuff, I'm unfortunately going to be a bit suprised if I like the upcoming Ultimate stuff as much as I have enjoyed the past stuff. Still, I'm hopeful.

[Cayman]

Nope, I find I still enjoy each issue. Besides, there is only one more and it arrives today.

[Gamma Burst]

Not at all.

[Billy Parker]

Maybe whining about it gives comic readers a bad name...but there's nothing wrong with calling out company on its lack of professionalism.

King Of Pain is absolutely right...deadlines are essential. If Hitch needs three months to pencil a book...fine. Marvel needs to solicit the book as coming out once every three months. But this 2 months, 6 months, 9 months nonsense is laughable. People should point it out and laugh. Marvel should be a joke.

Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

[stealthwise]

Whine, whine, whine, whine, whine.

That's probably the most dismissive, immature, and asinine way to dismiss someone who has valid criticisms and a good point to make.

Congrats, you can create meaningless posts.

[Jake V]

That's probably the most dismissive, immature, and asinine way to dismiss someone who has valid criticisms and a good point to make.

Congrats, you can create meaningless posts.
Hello and welcome to the internet!

[Agent Helix]

Nine months, and some dudes get beat up. Congratulations, American Comics Fans, you're getting what you deserve at this point.

[Thundergod]

Indeed they are...

[johnnystl34]

Just got the last ish today. It was a total let down. I don't even remember what's been happening. I hope Ultimates 3 does better.

[Billy Parker]

That's probably the most dismissive, immature, and asinine way to dismiss someone who has valid criticisms and a good point to make.

Congrats, you can create meaningless posts.

Whine...whine, whine, whine, whine.

[Thorlief]

while I'm still to buy the last issue, I can say I already knew the issue wouldnt have been anything special. All the biggest moments ended with #12, and it was OBVIOUS the #13 is more a filler than anything. I'm not that excited, but I wioll buy it because

1) you can't call yourself a comic fan if you don't buy the last issue of a comic, even if it sucks (and I dont think it does)

2) you whine for ages and now you try to be the alternative guy not buying it? Hah

3) there's Thor kicking ass.

this will be my last issue. I wont buy the Michael Bay Pro-American cliche fest called Ulti 3 or Ulti 4

[Agent Helix]

1) you can't call yourself a comic fan if you don't buy the last issue of a comic, even if it sucks (and I dont think it does)



That's an utter, steaming pile of crap.

[Thorlief]

That's an utter, steaming pile of crap.

thanks man, care to explain why should it be considered crap? do you think its reasonable the fact you whine about the last issue and then you dont buy it just because...because of what, exactly? It's the last issue and someone doesnt want to buy it because of some idiotic reason. Thats crap, in my opinion

[Agent Helix]

I'm not buying it because A) I already read it, and it's mediocre at best, and B) I'm not going to support titles that come out once every half-year unless they're INTENDED to come out on that timescale. That's not an idiotic reason at all. Mindlessly consuming whatever treacle is offered to you, even after being jerked around constantly regarding a release date, is idiotic. I'm not going to give my money to support that kind of nonsense anymore. If a book is this ridiculously late, it's not worth buying.

Especially when the whole fight scene is just one boring spread.

[Thorlief]

ok, I see from your post you're pissed at em. I cannot disagree, no book should take this insane amount of time to come out. Heck, I dont accept this kind of crap from Alan Moore (even tho I'll end up buying everything this man writes), let alone Millar & Hitch. I'm pretty pissed as well....but the hell with it, I just want to read the final chapter.
If it sucks, oh well. Its not like I passed these months locked in my room waiting for it..it just happens to come out and I just happen to buy it because I have all the 24 issues and I want the 25. Maybe the fact it will be the last number I buy strengthens my decision, and believe me I do understand your reasons. But hey, why should I give away the possibility to sell the complete serie on ebay? ;D

[Agent Helix]

I'm not pissed. I'm just not buying this crap anymore. It wasn't worth waiting nine months to finish out what's essentially a pretty, but boring and underwritten mindless beat 'em up series.

[seekquaze]

thanks man, care to explain why should it be considered crap? do you think its reasonable the fact you whine about the last issue and then you dont buy it just because...because of what, exactly? It's the last issue and someone doesnt want to buy it because of some idiotic reason. Thats crap, in my opinion

If the story is not to ones liking and in the opinion of the reader is a bad story why should he spend his money on the object? I remember buying the first few issues of several mini-series only half way through for the story to take a complete 180 on quality and didn't bother buying the rest of the series. Is that not a valid reason? Or should one buy crap just because it will complete the series?

[HeckBoy]

Prior to all the delays I was really into the Ultimates, but now not so much. I got #13 because I was still interested in how the title would end. I mean logically, like seekgauza was saying, if some series didn't interest you anymore, you'd drop it. I know I've done that a couple of times. But at the same time I've stayed with some series (at least mini-series or "set issues" series like the Ultimates) despite their flaws just b/c I, like a lot of others, collected comic books. It completes our sets basically. Nowadays, I'm more into picking and choosing, and will only continue picking something up if it retains my interest. That being said, and to get back on topic, the wait between issues really killed any momentum/interest for me in continuing with the Ultimates. The issue itself was not worth that wait and I think I'll just wait for the trades now with Season 3+.