Ultimate X-Men 77 Discussion (Spoilers)

[Sparda]

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We start off with Scott being gloomy over the kidnapping of Jean and Bobby came to talk to him. They talked and scott was basically saying that how this spot under a tree, is where he would talk to Jean and be all romantic and such while bobby is gloomy as well that his relationship with Rogue went to square one again. They got up and went to a briefing with Bishop on how to take out Cable.

Bishop explains at the meeting that cause time travel takes up so much energy and such, Cable was still in thier timeline somewhere. He decides to take the whole team with him except for Cyclops who stays as a last defense for Xavior and has been advised that if they failed, he should not confront with cable and run. Bishop mentioned that he use to work with cable before he went and become a deranged lunatic forming theories that it was Xavior who caused the hellish hellhole of a future. Bishop forms a portal and takes the team with him comprising of Wolverine, Storm, Rogue, Iceman, and collosus.

Turns out Cable's hideout was in a weapon X facility somewhere in the Netherlands. Bishop advised the team that Cable would know that they came cause of the stream the teleport gadget would make to alert him. Next thing you know Rogues arm was blasted off completely losing alot of blood and armless. Wolverine came to her rescue to lend his healiing factor to her and she fell uncouncious. Next we see, it was Domino who shot rogues arm off and with her is the Ult 6 pack (Cable's not there though). Wolverine out of anger lashed out but was shot in the ribs by domino and taken out easily (ha ha you stupid cash cow). We see the X-Men taking on the pack and Domino yelling out strategies and directions to take them out. Grizzly was to take on collossos, Domino takes on Bishop while Hammer Hammer takes on Storm being advised on not to underestimate her while kane goes after the rest.

Iceman worries and advises Bishop to transport Rogue back to the X-Mansion infirmary but before Bishop did that, he took out Dommino's gun with his mutant power. Rogue went back and the team continued in the brawl. While Xavior and cyclops rushed to help Rogue, it turns out her arm was regrowing thanks to the healing factor she absorbed. We see Cable deciding to go out to help his teamates seeing that he himself as a last line of defense to back the team up but went to talk to jean first and asked her if she still see's the goblins. He told her that they would'nt help to remove the collar she had one but in the future she will have better mastery of the goblins.

Next scene shifts to Xavior arguing with cyclops that he should put an end to this by giving his life to Cable and he admits he feelings for Jean.

END SPOILER

Thank god the art improved alot and this was actually a pretty cool issue. Curious to know the conclusion and the shocks now.

[Red Lotus]

Random thoughts.

I like the art. I enjoyed Cyclops and Bobby trying to relate. Scott doesn't seem to have many friends out side of Jean. If Kitty does leave I hope marvel makes her a bigger part of USM.

I know they hinted this alot in the early 616. But this real feels very dirty old man like to me.

Is it just me or does Xavier always seems to be up to some thing. I just dont trust the guy here at all. With all the hints about what about happen to him I kind of think that its going to be all part of his plan and that he will do some thing to make what Cable is trying to stop happen. I almost feels like he is going to be the big bad at the end of day. Not here but some day.

I also wonder if there was more behind Bishop wanting to leave Scott behind.

[Brian M.]

There has to be more reason behind Scott being left behind. The last line of the issue made me hate it.

[Beast]

Of all the possible plotlines from the 616 that could be rekindled for the Ultimate Universe. Of the thousands upon thousands of cool storylines to tap. Why for the love of god... is Xavier being hot and bothered for Jean one of them. It was creepy in the 616 even if it was only mentioned like twice, and it's even creepier here. :(

[Toboe]

Of all the possible plotlines from the 616 that could be rekindled for the Ultimate Universe. Of the thousands upon thousands of cool storylines to tap. Why for the love of god... is Xavier being hot and bothered for Jean one of them. It was creepy in the 616 even if it was only mentioned like twice, and it's even creepier here. :(

Even creepier if you take into consideration he has just spent the night with Lilandra... wonder if he was thinking about Jean the whole time... ugh...

[Beast]

Even creepier if you take into consideration he has just spent the night with Lilandra... wonder if he was thinking about Jean the whole time... ugh...
Xavier shoves Jean's X-Men costume and a red wing into Lilandra's hands. "Wear this..."

Lilandra rolls her eyes and starts getting dressed for Xavier. "What's next.... Magneto?"

Xavier shudders with a perverted look of pleasure on his lips. "All in due time, my love."

[Hi-Fi]

Rogue loses her arm now?? LOL. Why can't Kirkman shoot her in the head and end her and mine suffering already?

[Toboe]

Xavier shoves Jean's X-Men costume and a red wing into Lilandra's hands. "Wear this..."

Lilandra rolls her eyes and starts getting dressed for Xavier. "What's next.... Magneto?"

Xavier shudders with a perverted look of pleasure on his lips. "All in due time, my love."

That story would prove to be far more interesting than Kirkman's work so far. :D One wonders why would Xavier leave his wife and kid for Magneto... must be the shiny helmet. :rolleyes:

[Beast]

That story would prove to be far more interesting than Kirkman's work so far. :D One wonders why would Xavier leave his wife and kid for Magneto... must be the shiny helmet. :rolleyes:
Heh. I've been saying that since the issue came out. Xavier's like the Ultimate Man Ho. :D

[Omega Alpha]

Won't be able to pick it up yet, but i read the spoilers and i have to say it did not seemed so bad, i like the idea of Scott and Bobby bonding (they should do it more often in the 616 too, is the least developed relationship among the originals), the fight may be cool, but the last part makes me want to throw up :mad: Xavier in love with Jean again? When is Kirkman getting fired?:mad: :mad:

[RoguefanAM]

Jeez, if I didn't dislike Kirkman's run before, I sure hate it now! The sole reason I was picking up this issue was because I was hoping for Rogue to actually do SOMETHING other than whine and cry about her sex life. However, it seems like Kirkmen's adamant about keeping her out the action and proceeds to disable her via blowing one of her arms off. Well at least she didn't die...although, I'm still trying to decide if that's a good or bad thing. :rolleyes:

Here's hoping for some Rogue development next issue. :(

[Nyssane]

Heh, Ultimate Domino seems like a badass.

[malephoenix]

I really liked the first two parts of the Ultimate Cable arc. This issue's story was terrible (I'm on board with everyone else that can't stand this Xavier-feelings-for-Jean trash), but the art made it SO much worse. It hurt.

[drinkblatzbeer]

honestly, i really liked the first two issues of this story, thought this one was a little weak...

and prof's revelation at the end just sort of sucked...
sort of anti-climacitc i think...

[BadAssMofo]

Of all the possible plotlines from the 616 that could be rekindled for the Ultimate Universe. Of the thousands upon thousands of cool storylines to tap. Why for the love of god... is Xavier being hot and bothered for Jean one of them. It was creepy in the 616 even if it was only mentioned like twice, and it's even creepier here. :(

I know. It bugged the crap outta me too. Why would they do this? Isn't Jean like 17,18 in this book?? Proff. X is like mid to late 40s? Sick! Sick! Sick! I tells ya!!

[Brian M.]

Exactly...Stan Lee makes a throw away line in like #3 or #4 of Uncanny and then they bring it back in one issue in Onslaught and that's it. That's the end of it. But no...Kirkman decides it's great character development for Xavier. Now I hope he gets a bullet in the head. Seriously, this Scott/Jean relationship isn't boring, it felt a little more real why would you go and throw something like that into it?

[DarkCrisis]

Next issue:

Xavier: "I'm also in love with sweet young nubile virginish Kitty. Mmmmmmm 15 year old."

Scott: "WTF!"

[Beast]

Next issue:

Xavier: "I'm also in love with sweet young nubile virginish Kitty. Mmmmmmm 15 year old."

Scott: "WTF!"
And the final page of the next issue:

Xavier: "And Beast wasn't in the casket that we buried. I figured why waste the chance."

Scott stammers in horror and kills Xavier with a blast from his visor. Completing Cable's mission for him.

[Deus ex Chris]

Well, before, Ben Oliver's art was the saving grace of the book. He's gone now, and this book's plunge right into hell has only gained momentum. It needs to die already, or Kirkman needs to be taken off immediately.

[Ham Sammiches]

Even though creepy at least Jean Grey turned 20 in the first issue of the arc. That counts for something...in the courts. But hey, this is the Professor X is a huge douchebag era in the 616 so...yeah. I guess it's not a surprise that we find a creepy version in the Ultimate books too. I don't know it could be worse. I'm personally waiting for him to say the following line in any comic, "Fine, I ate a baby in 1985. I was at a party at David Bowie's house and things got kind of out of control."

[Sparda]

I know. It bugged the crap outta me too. Why would they do this? Isn't Jean like 17,18 in this book?? Proff. X is like mid to late 40s? Sick! Sick! Sick! I tells ya!!
Jean is around 19 in the beginning of the X-book. She must be 20 right now.

[Joe Acro]

Of all the possible plotlines from the 616 that could be rekindled for the Ultimate Universe. Of the thousands upon thousands of cool storylines to tap. Why for the love of god... is Xavier being hot and bothered for Jean one of them. It was creepy in the 616 even if it was only mentioned like twice, and it's even creepier here. :(
Quoted for truth. And I don't even see the need for it.

Why didn't anyone show concern for taking Logan to the infirmary? Why didn't Rogue's stolen healing facotr kick in immediately?

Other than those three things, it was okay, but those three things really brought it down. It may be the worst thing I read this week.

[Sparda]

Quoted for truth. And I don't even see the need for it.

Why didn't anyone show concern for taking Logan to the infirmary? Why didn't Rogue's stolen healing facotr kick in immediately?

Other than those three things, it was okay, but those three things really brought it down. It may be the worst thing I read this week.
Healing factor takes some time to kick in in rogues case. She was losing alot of blood fast while at the same time has gotten logans healing factor power.

No one thought to take wolverine for the simple fact that he'll just heal and join the battle quickly. Sure rogue got some of his powers but he still had strength to charge at domino out of anger.

[malephoenix]

Quoted for truth. And I don't even see the need for it.

Why didn't anyone show concern for taking Logan to the infirmary? Why didn't Rogue's stolen healing facotr kick in immediately?

Other than those three things, it was okay, but those three things really brought it down. It may be the worst thing I read this week.

Sparda is correct.



As for the age thing, though, I'm afraid that although it's "sick," it's also natural. We talked about this in one of my gerentology courses; when you're 18, a hot 18-year-old is attractive to you. When you're 30, a hot 30-year-old is attractive, and so is the 18-year-old. When you hit 45, you find others of the same age attractive, but still the 30- and 18-year-old. I'm not saying it's good. And as a youth minister, I constantly remind our volunteers about being responsible.

It was weird to see this come alive, though, this week. Me and my old roommate from college got together to see what was new. He only just graduated last year, and I'm a couple years older than him. I told him before that I'd had to stop looking at the freshman coming to the university because they were just too young. He told me this week while we were catching up over IHOP (:cool: ) that it was different for him to start experiencing it himself, now.



All that said, it's still a crappy storyline and I wish it didn't happen.

[Joe Acro]

Healing factor takes some time to kick in in rogues case. She was losing alot of blood fast while at the same time has gotten logans healing factor power.

No one thought to take wolverine for the simple fact that he'll just heal and join the battle quickly. Sure rogue got some of his powers but he still had strength to charge at domino out of anger.
I suppose I can accept those answers. Based on him not asking questions, did Xavier just get the information about Wolvie touching her from her mind?

[malephoenix]

I suppose I can accept those answers. Based on him not asking questions, did Xavier just get the information about Wolvie touching her from her mind?

I think he figured it out when her arm started to grow back.



Kidding!

Although I'm pretty sure that in that situation, he had all the info he needed as soon as she was dropped off. Whether from her unconscious mind, Bobby's extreme emotions when he dropped her off, or whatever. Why would this character (Ultimate X) stop to ask questions in this kind of a situation?

[Hi-Fi]

I just read this and I actually enjoyed this issue. :confused:

[Grievous]

I enjoyed it too. I like where this is going, Kirkman certainly has balls. I wonder if this has something to do with future Logan's desire to kill Charles...

[Omega Alpha]

Now that i've read this, what's up with those goblins?

[Hi-Fi]

OK, the good things:

Kirkman proves he at least made his homework. He brings back the tree where Scott and Jean hang and remember us that Storm loves to write. Nice to see some Scott/Bobby interaction.

Also, nice fight scene and I LOVED what happened to Rogue. I was bummed that I spoiled myself earlier because it would be a shocking scene to me.

Now the bad things:

So a strange man says he's from the future and knows where Cable is and sudenly becomes team leader?? Bulls*it!

And there was no sense at all in leaving Cyclops behind. He's the frickin' team leader!

Also, shouldn't Bobby stay with his dying girlfriend instead of getting back to battle?? I thought it was bizarre that he just dumped Rogue in the infirmary and went back. Wolverine was way more worried about her than him.

Anyway, an (GASP!) enjoyable issue by Kirkman, and I'm actually looking forward to the conclusion.

Omega Alpha, I guess the goblins are a homage to the Goblyn Queen.

[carabas]

Next issue:

page 1, panel 1-3 (collapsed)
Cyclops mutters some curses under his breath.

page 1, rest of page:
big splash of an optic blast taking of Xaviers head.

[bbmakdaddycomics]

sorry to be semi off topic, but i went to marvel.com and i looked at the
preview of ultimate x-men 80 and it said that the x-men are leaderless and
cyclops has made the decision to disband the x-men.

[Beast]

Yeah, nothing like dropping upcoming spoilers right in the thread for this issue. Go you.

[carabas]

Thank you oh so very much for filling us in on the important plot twists of next year's comics.

[caney]

I enjoyed this issue and think the Cable arc has be very fun so far.

It was nice to see some interaction between Bobby and Scott at the beginning. I'm a sucker for all those little moments where we get to see the X-men interacting outside of a mission situation. That's part of the reason I liked the "Date Night" arc so much.

I'm a little confused about the Syndicate stuff, but I guess that's just setting up stuff in a later story-line. Xavier's got lots secrets from his X-men. I think the fact that the team accepts Bishop as their mission leader so easily can be attributed to their trust in Professor X. If he says Bishop is OK, they're going to take him at his word.

The scene with Rogue getting her arm shot off was shocking to me. It was set up so great by her line right before it happened. I was very worried for her future until her arm started to grow back. I did find it a little odd that Bobby was so quick to drop her off and get back to the battle. Bishop did order him to "Drop her off and get back here" though.

The last line by Xavier through me for a loop. I could see him wanting to sacrafice himself for any of his X-men without the extra motivation of being in love with them. It did make me wonder if anything more serious had gone on between Xavier and Jean in their training sessions together. Thoughout the run of Ultimate X-men, Jean did seem to have a bit of a strange relationship with Xavier. I remember her calling him "Charles" a few times, which made him a bit uncomfortable. I always had the impression that she was the one in love with Xavier and not the other way around. I even thought she might have a sort of dual personality with the Phoenix part of her personality being in love with Xavier while the Jean part of her was in love with Scott.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to the conclusion next issue!

[Mjolnir]

meh, the professor's feelings for jean, IMO, is a realistic and mature development.the ultimate line was engineered originally to be a more modern day, real-ish world universe.

these things happen. especially between teachers and students.

(humming The Police's "Dont Stand So Close To Me")

anyway, here's to Bishop joining the team, hopefully. so long as they investigate his time-disjointment.

[carabas]

meh, the professor's feelings for jean, IMO, is a realistic and mature development.the ultimate line was engineered originally to be a more modern day, real-ish world universe.

these things happen. especially between teachers and students.
The problem I have with it is that it is not a new, Ultimate twist, but exactly the same situation as in 616 X-Men.

[ThePhenom]

I think everyone's reading into the age difference too much as the controversy of this storyline, while yeah there's the age gap what really gets me is their prior relationship...

After reading through like 80 issues of Ultimate X-Men, observing what was a semingly paternal father-daughter relationship and just turned out it was Xavier being into her...

Now that's creepy.

[Tre Styles]

The problem I have with it is that it is not a new, Ultimate twist, but exactly the same situation as in 616 X-Men.


Except that in the 616, Xavier never, ever voiced or acted out his feelings. He supressed them deep down. It was only when Jean was trying to find out the mystery abuot Onslaught, when she probed his brain is when she found out the truth. The rest of the X-Men, to this day, don't know about it, or at least it's never been discussed, if I can recall. Now, here in the Ultimate U, Xavier says it out loud and out in the open in front of Scott of all people. The concept is the same, but the execution sure isn't.

[Sandoz]

This arc still gets a big fat "Meh" from me. It was surprising to see Rogue's arm blown clean off, but since she was healed by the end of the issue it wasn't anything more than a cheap shock. (Still kind of weird to imagine that spare arm just lying on the ground in Finland.)

It was surprising to see the "Charles loves Jean that way" angle brought up again since most X-Men writers and readers are happy to brush it under the rug. Admittedly it makes more sense in this context, since Xavier's affair with then-student Emma Frost has already been established. But it still felt...unncessary to me, like, "Wow, did we really need to go there again?"

I think I liked it better in Millar's run when Xavier was blatantly in love with Magneto.:p

[BoosterBronze]

If Rogue grew back her entire arm with Wolvie's healing power, why does Cable/Future Wolvie have a robot arm?

[Beast]

If Rogue grew back her entire arm with Wolvie's healing power, why does Cable/Future Wolvie have a robot arm?
He's noted already that his healing factor is no longer working.

[Beast]

I think I liked it better in Millar's run when Xavier was blatantly in love with Magneto.:p
That was hot. :D

[Gene M.]

This whole arc reads like a bad M. Night Shamylan movie.

To steal a bit from Robot Chicken:
"Cable's really Wolverine! What a tweest!"
"Xavier loves Jean! What a tweest!"

I was actually kinda liking Kirkman's run, but seriously. What the hell? This whole arc has been totally inane. IT feels like Kirkman is trying too hard to shock te reader each issue. The only high points have been the Ben Oliver art (which was absent this issue) and the appearance by Syndicate. I guess I'm a sucker for characters with two faces and electro-laser hearts.

One other thought: Does anyone notice the similarities between Grizzly and Thunderbird from "Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends"?

[Toboe]

I think I liked it better in Millar's run when Xavier was blatantly in love with Magneto.:p

Me too, that was hot and not as creepy. :) Anyway, I actually enjoyed Millar's run, anything's better than Kirkman's crap...
I was rereading World Tour the other day and it seems like Xavier also had the hots for Betsy Braddock, even though it was his son's conciousness inside of her. Seriously, what's up with the old guy??

[carabas]

Except that in the 616, Xavier never, ever voiced or acted out his feelings. He supressed them deep down. It was only when Jean was trying to find out the mystery abuot Onslaught, when she probed his brain is when she found out the truth. The rest of the X-Men, to this day, don't know about it, or at least it's never been discussed, if I can recall. Now, here in the Ultimate U, Xavier says it out loud and out in the open in front of Scott of all people. The concept is the same, but the execution sure isn't.

Ah.
Didn't know that, way before my time.
The Ultimate execution of the same idea does seem to offer quite a bit more story potential. After all, what good is a soap opera twist if nobody knows about it?

[Beast]

Ah.
Didn't know that, way before my time.
The Ultimate execution of the same idea does seem to offer quite a bit more story potential. After all, what good is a soap opera twist if nobody knows about it?
Here's the only mention of it from the classic 60's comics, up until Onslaught in the late 90's.

http://www.tabias.com/dumb/dearlord/lurve.jpg

[Omega Alpha]

I wonder what Stan Lee intended to go with that subplot, specially considering that in the same panel, Jean is showing maybe for the first time (i'm not sure) a lot of affection for the ol' Slim.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I just wanted to express how unbelieveably happy I am that Ben Oliver is no longer on pencil duty for this title. :) Paco is definitely a step in the right direction in terms of artwork. Thumbs up Paco.

[caney]

specially considering that in the same panel, Jean is showing maybe for the first time (i'm not sure) a lot of affection for the ol' Slim.

I think she's just mesmerized by his amazing jacket. :)

[Brian M.]

Here's the only mention of it from the classic 60's comics, up until Onslaught in the late 90's.

http://www.tabias.com/dumb/dearlord/lurve.jpg

Oh how I miss those two together...not Xavier/Jean but Scott/Jean. Yea it was a nice throw away line and I'm so happy it was NEVER mentioned again until Onslaught.

[Jack]

Wait a second... Leader of the X-Men... Confined to a wheelchair..?

*checks current Xavier*

Oh my god! Marvel is OBVIOUSLY building up to a Jean/Xavier relationship!

[jeangreydp]

I LOVED this issue.

That end was great. :D I could just hug the bejezzus out of this book.

EDIT: Now, I'm reading back and seeing a lot of people did not like this issue. I thought it was great! Domino was a total ass-kicker. I'm still left hanging about who exactly Cable is and I guess I'm the only person thats ever loved the Xavier hearts Jean subplot. The fact that it is creepy is what makes it so awesome.

[Brian M.]

I LOVED this issue.

That end was great. :D I could just hug the bejezzus out of this book.

EDIT: Now, I'm reading back and seeing a lot of people did not like this issue. I thought it was great! Domino was a total ass-kicker. I'm still left hanging about who exactly Cable is and I guess I'm the only person thats ever loved the Xavier hearts Jean subplot. The fact that it is creepy is what makes it so awesome.

Well then I found were we differ in our love of Jean. I just find it's a pointless subplot that didn't need to be introduced...I mean...why?

[Toboe]

Wait a second... Leader of the X-Men... Confined to a wheelchair..?

*checks current Xavier*

Oh my god! Marvel is OBVIOUSLY building up to a Jean/Xavier relationship!

Oh crap you're sooo right!!! And since Scott made clear in Phoenix Endsong he isn't interested in a relationship with Jean anymore... Well at least it's a change from having her run to Scott's arms every time she comes back to life (again).


I think she's just mesmerized by his amazing jacket.

At least I am.

[Yarr]

I thought it was a pretty cool issue if you ignore the whole "To Catch a Predator" cross over stuff.

[Jack]

At least I am.Me too. I think it might be the rare fractal jacket that goes on foreeeeeever.
Oh crap you're sooo right!!! And since Scott made clear in Phoenix Endsong he isn't interested in a relationship with Jean anymore... Well at least it's a change from having her run to Scott's arms every time she comes back to life (again).I joked, but it would be kinda interesting. At least it would be a genuinely new idea. And powerless Xavier has a total hard-on for telepathy.

[jeangreydp]

Well then I found were we differ in our love of Jean. I just find it's a pointless subplot that didn't need to be introduced...I mean...why?


I suppose so!

I like it because its so uncomfortable. I love back in the Onslaught issues how deeply disturbed Jean was. She almost knocked the Juggernaut out for making a joke, lol.

I think its neat that there is a sort of role reversal here now. Scott knows about xavier and Jean (presumably does not) So, will Scott tell Jean about what he knows or will it become some shameful secret Scott wished he never knew? Will he scrub himself raw in the scalding hot shower every night?

In the 616 Universe, Jean never told Scott what she knew about Xaviers feelings for her because she didn't want Scott to have the image of Charles shattered and she was probably embarrassed as well.

Such an awkward situation- I love it.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Well since this is Ultimate X-Men maybe it would be a nice new developement that didnt really see the light of day in 616. In fact I'd love to see it be a mutual thing, Xaiver and Jean, Scott and his right hand. lol

[Toboe]

I joked, but it would be kinda interesting. At least it would be a genuinely new idea. And powerless Xavier has a total hard-on for telepathy.

I figured it was a joke :) But you had a point, since Xavier states there that he wouldn't confess his love for Jean while he was leader of the X-Men and confined to a wheelchair... well now he's neither! Too bad Jean's dead (again) and in another plane of exitance and old Charles being tortured by the Shi Ar... :rolleyes: And you're right, powerless Xavier has a total hard-on for telepathy. It seems Ultimate Xavier has it for young women and old guys with capes.

Anyway back on topic, this book used to be so damn good... until Kirkman came in. Can't we have him off before he does even more damage to it??!!

[bbmakdaddycomics]

yeah kirkman came and took a good book and just blew it into smitherines.
almost like bendis' run for ultimate x-men killing off beast, he should stick to ultimate spiderman and kirkman needs to get a life.
they need a writer who could revive gambit and beast and try to ultimitze the most popular x-men characters and a few non populars like x-man, i liked him

[creaky]

So. It does indeed seem like Kirkman is all about the shock and little about the substance. I wonder how many of these big reveals he's actually going to follow up on. Or why am I even wondering? *sigh* 35 issues to go. By the time he's finished, will there be anything left?

The art was stiff, stale and awkward. And Xavier in love with Jean? Of course he is. And was I supposed to feel sorry for Rogue getting her arm blown off? Whoops. I was actually hoping Domino would have better aim. Kirkman would have to work a lot harder to make me sympathize with Rogue.

This title has become so sad.

[sgt pepper]

To catch a predator? WTF? Jean is physically and mentally mature and well above anyone's standard for the age of consent. Loads of older men fall for younger women and vice versa.

God, the dialogue was clunky in this issue. "Really? Is that so? What do you think about it now?" Groan.

And Storm cracks wise while one of her team mates may be dying. Sure, why not lighten the mood.

And Scott's apparently taking face hair grooming lessons from Shaggy.

And that awful soap opera cliche ending "But...I love her! Oh boo hoo hoo!" Cut.

Why am I still reading this? It's awful.

[Sgt. Preston]

To catch a predator? WTF? Jean is physically and mentally mature and well above anyone's standard for the age of consent. Loads of older men fall for younger women and vice versa.

God, the dialogue was clunky in this issue. "Really? Is that so? What do you think about it now?" Groan.

And Storm cracks wise while one of her team mates may be dying. Sure, why not lighten the mood.

And Scott's apparently taking face hair grooming lessons from Shaggy.

And that awful soap opera cliche ending "But...I love her! Oh boo hoo hoo!" Cut.

Why am I still reading this? It's awful.

Two out of two Sergeants agree......easily the worst book in the Ultimate Universe.

[flapjaxx]

To catch a predator? WTF? Jean is physically and mentally mature and well above anyone's standard for the age of consent. Loads of older men fall for younger women and vice versa.

God, the dialogue was clunky in this issue. "Really? Is that so? What do you think about it now?" Groan.

And Storm cracks wise while one of her team mates may be dying. Sure, why not lighten the mood.

And Scott's apparently taking face hair grooming lessons from Shaggy.

And that awful soap opera cliche ending "But...I love her! Oh boo hoo hoo!" Cut.

Why am I still reading this? It's awful.

[DJ KaySlay voice]DAMN![/DJ KaySlay voice]

I'm going to feel guilty about reading this comic forevermore.

(That shit on Cyclops' chin. :rolleyes: Real mid-'90s cool.)

[Sheldon]

that was one of the dumbest cliffhangers in comic history.

[Brian M.]

That stuff on Scott's chin looked better when Finch drew it in that Return of the King arc. That was a badass Cyclops.

[wingsofdamnation]

this issue opened up a huge plot hole in Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine spoilers below

In UXM 77 rogue get her arm shot off and wolverine grabs her to let her use his healing factor. bishop sends rogue back to the xmansion and within seconds of rogue arriving prof x and cyclops storm in and rogue already has her arm grown back(minus the skin however).

so if wolvies healing factor is stong enough to grow back limbs then wouldnt his legs have allready grown back before he reached the top of the mountain?

[The New Fate]

Xavier shoves Jean's X-Men costume and a red wing into Lilandra's hands. "Wear this..."

Lilandra rolls her eyes and starts getting dressed for Xavier. "What's next.... Magneto?"

Xavier shudders with a perverted look of pleasure on his lips. "All in due time, my love."

That was a Ultimate lol moment.

[The New Fate]

Well since this is Ultimate X-Men maybe it would be a nice new developement that didnt really see the light of day in 616. In fact I'd love to see it be a mutual thing, Xaiver and Jean, Scott and his right hand. lol

Right on!

I cannot believe all the grief your all giving over this issue.
I just started Ult.X @ this arc. It might not be the strongest but frickin hell.
Rogue getting her arm blown off was kind of a lame shocker.

Xaviers words were a real shocker to me bit it will be ok.
If he get's killed later I'm fine w/ that as well but not because he has a chubby for Jean.
I bet you all buy the next issue anyway.

[Brian M.]

Right on!

I cannot believe all the grief your all giving over this issue.
I just started Ult.X @ this arc. It might not be the strongest but frickin hell.
Rogue getting her arm blown off was kind of a lame shocker.

Xaviers words were a real shocker to me bit it will be ok.
If he get's killed later I'm fine w/ that as well but not because he has a chubby for Jean.
I bet you all buy the next issue anyway.

Yes I going to buy the next issue and the ones after b/c I enjoy 2/3 of what goes on in the book. Just becuase I dislike one damn thing in the book doesn't mean I'm going to not buy it buddy. You like everything your mother does? Everything your girlfriend does? Probably not...you gonna go trade them in b/c of a few things you dislike? Good logic.

[The New Fate]

Yes I going to buy the next issue and the ones after b/c I enjoy 2/3 of what goes on in the book. Just becuase I dislike one damn thing in the book doesn't mean I'm going to not buy it buddy. You like everything your mother does? Everything your girlfriend does? Probably not...you gonna go trade them in b/c of a few things you dislike? Good logic.

... so easy to take the piss.

[Brian M.]

... so easy to take the piss.

off
.......

[The Foreigner]

Yes I going to buy the next issue and the ones after b/c I enjoy 2/3 of what goes on in the book. Just becuase I dislike one damn thing in the book doesn't mean I'm going to not buy it buddy. You like everything your mother does? Everything your girlfriend does? Probably not...you gonna go trade them in b/c of a few things you dislike? Good logic.

Comparing a comic book to your mother and your girlfriend. Good analogy.

[The New Fate]

Comparing a comic book to your mother and your girlfriend. Good analogy.

Yeah I guess when your from Knoxville Tenn. and you mum and sister are the same woman it makes sence.

[The New Fate]

Ok enough is enough. All said and done. I liked #77 and look foward to the rest. @ the end of the day all of our oppinions can be heard and that is what counts. Happy Hollidays.

[Messiah Complex]

I think the Prof being in love with Jean is an interesting enough storyline. I mean, we know we aren't going to see it in 616, so why not do it in the Ultimate U, where supposedly anything can happen? To be fair, I actually think it has something to do with the Phoenix. Anyone remember in Earth X, where they said that Scott and Logan both fell for Jean because the Phoenix force creates feelings of unearthly passion in others? I have a feeling it'll be something along those lines. Also, Jean and the Prof are regularly shown communicating through telepathy. It's impossible for them not to read each other's minds through this process, even if it's subconscious, and so a feeling of personal connection is only natural. I imagine this will be part of any love affair or triangle that develops.
Anyone think we're all way to hard on the Ultimate writers? Every post I read is negative.

[steve2275]

grizzly is goin down
(insert bad joke here)

[Brian M.]

Yeah I guess when your from Knoxville Tenn. and you mum and sister are the same woman it makes sence.

That's pretty good...no one's ever made an incest joke about people from Tennessee, you must have been top in your class in Elementry school...after that...probably a little downhill.

[Omega Alpha]

Anyone think we're all way to hard on the Ultimate writers? Every post I read is negative.

We are not way too hard on Ultimate writers. You are the one who is being not hard enough on Kirkman. Go see the posts in the Ultimates, UFF or USM threads and you'll see that most are praising the books and the writers.



I think the Prof being in love with Jean is an interesting enough storyline. I mean, we know we aren't going to see it in 616, so why not do it in the Ultimate U, where supposedly anything can happen?.

I have a better idea: why you just DON'T make Xavier fall in love with Jean? It was already creepy enough in the 616 version, and is as incestuous and bad in the Ultimate version. Why of all the dozens of plotlines in the 616, you have to get one of the worse ones, that was immediately abandoned by the writers after it begun?

[carabas]

It could have been worse...
He could have said
"Scott, Cable's your son from an alternate timeline, who you sent into the future on account of some weird virus."
or
"Scott, I am the third Summers brother."
or
"Scott, I love you."

[spyridona]

It could have been worse...
<snip!>
"Scott, I love you."

OHNOEZZ!!12!!! TEH PROFESSOR CAUGHT TEH GEY! WOT CAN BE WORST TEHN TIHS!?1!?

:rolleyes:

[Brian M.]

OHNOEZZ!!12!!! TEH PROFESSOR CAUGHT TEH GEY! WOT CAN BE WORST TEHN TIHS!?1!?

:rolleyes:

I caught the gay once...it's still a sore subject.

[Callisto]

or
"Scott, I love you."

now that would have been hilarious.

[kel25]

The Professor X loving Jean isn't great but it doesn't really bother me too much. I'm betting if they actually ran with that idea in 616 most people would be praising it and saying about time. I saw a lot of that when Ultimate Jean and Scott got together.

[Erik B]

The Professor X loving Jean isn't great but it doesn't really bother me too much. I'm betting if they actually ran with that idea in 616 most people would be praising it and saying about time. I saw a lot of that when Ultimate Jean and Scott got together.

If that subject of Jean and Prof X came up first for Ultimate instead of 616, im more then sure they would have gone the distance with it here in ultimate despite that the series is aimed at teachers.
its bad enough teenagers and all are getting whacked - and again its young children - young teenagers who are really supposed to dig this - but now they have to read about teenagers getting it on with teachers? I went to FHHS in queens and i graduated 4 years ago and i just found out about a teacher i had doing very disgusting things to girls (and the girls allowed it, willingly) while his wife was around and im completely disgusted and horrified and this stuff is being tossed at teens?
Back to point, im sure if it was Ultimate that came up with the idea, that they would have had this whole "sins past" version of the love in which we learn he knocked herout psychically and did stuff,who knows i find it disgusting

[carabas]

Let's see where they're heading with the story before condamning it as an endorcement of teachers boinking their students, shall we?

[Brian M.]

The Professor X loving Jean isn't great but it doesn't really bother me too much. I'm betting if they actually ran with that idea in 616 most people would be praising it and saying about time. I saw a lot of that when Ultimate Jean and Scott got together.

It's an even worse idea if it would be in 616...I mean really really momumentally bad idea.

[Omega Alpha]

The Professor X loving Jean isn't great but it doesn't really bother me too much. I'm betting if they actually ran with that idea in 616 most people would be praising it and saying about time. I saw a lot of that when Ultimate Jean and Scott got together.

You mean people would be pleased to see a man fell in love with his surrogate daughter, whom he begun to have contact when she was 11? I strongly doubt that. :rolleyes:



Let's see where they're heading with the story before condamning it as an endorcement of teachers boinking their students, shall we?

No, we shall not. It's a bad idea, and very, very few writers, if any, could make it work. Kirkman is not one of them, jugding be the bad quality of the book. Neither were Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, which dropped it very quickly.


It's an even worse idea if it would be in 616...I mean really really momumentally bad idea.

At least in the 616, it was an original bad idea...

[carabas]

No, we shall not. It's a bad idea, and very, very few writers, if any, could make it work. Kirkman is not one of them, jugding be the bad quality of the book. Neither were Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, which dropped it very quickly.

I didn't say that it was a good idea, or that it might be a good story.
I just said that it was a bit premature to label the story as an endorcement for teachers boinking their students.

[Omega Alpha]

I didn't say that it was a good idea, or that it might be a good story.
I just said that it was a bit premature to label the story as an endorcement for teachers boinking their students.

I haven't said is an endorsement for teachers boinking their students, only that it is a bad idea.

[Toboe]

this issue opened up a huge plot hole in Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine spoilers below

In UXM 77 rogue get her arm shot off and wolverine grabs her to let her use his healing factor. bishop sends rogue back to the xmansion and within seconds of rogue arriving prof x and cyclops storm in and rogue already has her arm grown back(minus the skin however).

so if wolvies healing factor is stong enough to grow back limbs then wouldnt his legs have allready grown back before he reached the top of the mountain?

Well since Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk is in hiatus and seems like its gonna stay that way I guess we're never gonna know... Rogue getting her arm blown off and then growing it back was quite stupid and pointless, tough.


Anyone think we're all way to hard on the Ultimate writers? Every post I read is negative.

Nope, just the ones referring to Kirkman's writing in Ultimate X-Men.


It could have been worse...
He could have said
"Scott, I love you."

That would have improved this book a lot, actually...

[Omega Alpha]

That would have improved this book a lot, actually...

Well, it could not make it worse...

[SMKSPY]

I liked Kirkman's run at the beginning. But after Rogue losing Gambit's powers (the only thing that made her interesting), and now this arc, I have to say Kirkman is ruining this book.

[kel25]

You mean people would be pleased to see a man fell in love with his surrogate daughter, whom he begun to have contact when she was 11? I strongly doubt that. :rolleyes:
Been away because of the holidays so this is a late response.

You completely missed my point. Let me try again.

No. I’m not saying people would be pleased with a man falling in love with his surrogate daughter. I’m saying people would be pleased to see something they have become accustomed to.

Odds are nearly everyone here started reading comics after that original Professor X loves Jean story ran. Because of the cartoons, movies, and comics most people see Cyclops and Jean as the norm. A lot of people hate Emma being with Scott because they think it shouldn’t be that way. Why? Because they are used to Jean and Cyclops being a couple.

Now if Stan Lee actually ran with that story and had Professor X and Jean as a couple a lot of people would look at it the same way people look at Batman and Robin or Wolverine and his young female sidekicks. There would be a lot of jokes about it but many would accept it as the way the characters are. Since that is what they are used to seeing they wouldn’t have a real problem with that. Sure there would be people against the relationship but there would be many people defending it too because those characters were always together as long as they could remember.

[Omega Alpha]

Been away because of the holidays so this is a late response.

You completely missed my point. Let me try again.

No. I’m not saying people would be pleased with a man falling in love with his surrogate daughter. I’m saying people would be pleased to see something they have become accustomed to.

Odds are nearly everyone here started reading comics after that original Professor X loves Jean story ran. Because of the cartoons, movies, and comics most people see Cyclops and Jean as the norm. A lot of people hate Emma being with Scott because they think it shouldn’t be that way. Why? Because they are used to Jean and Cyclops being a couple.

Now if Stan Lee actually ran with that story and had Professor X and Jean as a couple a lot of people would look at it the same way people look at Batman and Robin or Wolverine and his young female sidekicks. There would be a lot of jokes about it but many would accept it as the way the characters are. Since that is what they are used to seeing they wouldn’t have a real problem with that. Sure there would be people against the relationship but there would be many people defending it too because those characters were always together as long as they could remember.

Oh, OK, i agree with that idea.

[Ragnorok64]

wow the whole Rogue suddenly getting her arm blown off was surprising. And even though Wolverine finally got easily dealt with while doing his Wolverine Leap, he still kinda saved the day through 2ndrd healing factor, which can now regrow limbs appearantly.

[Sparda]

The idea of Charles having had a relationship with Emma Frost is original, so go ahead and have X and Jean have a relationship. It's creepy but he did get jean while she was a older teen in the Marvel continuity, and of course he would find her attractive. I would like to see how Jean would feel about it after knowing this but I would prefer that was with another writer to decide that.

Kirkman is a great writer, but he's just not meant to do a X-book.

Also the next issue is gonna be released the same week as Ultimate spider-man final conclusion to clone saga so I'll be interested to know despite people's bitching about the x-men, which book would they read first.

[Omega Alpha]

The idea of Charles having had a relationship with Emma Frost is original, so go ahead and have X and Jean have a relationship. It's creepy but he did get jean while she was a older teen in the Marvel continuity, and of course he would find her attractive. I would like to see how Jean would feel about it after knowing this but I would prefer that was with another writer to decide that.

Kirkman is a great writer, but he's just not meant to do a X-book.

Also the next issue is gonna be released the same week as Ultimate spider-man final conclusion to clone saga so I'll be interested to know despite people's bitching about the x-men, which book would they read first.

Well, how original is Xavier nailing all of Scott's women?:p

It's not original for Xavier to fell for Jean, and so a relationship is not that original to begin with. And being original doesn't mean being good.

Besides, like i said zillions of times, the main problem is not Xavier being old enough to be her father (not that it isn't a problem), but Xavier being a father figure to her and treating her as a daughter before. You can't possibly making it not be creepy, or work.

[Hi-Fi]

The idea of Charles having had a relationship with Emma Frost is original, so go ahead and have X and Jean have a relationship. It's creepy but he did get jean while she was a older teen in the Marvel continuity, and of course he would find her attractive. I would like to see how Jean would feel about it after knowing this but I would prefer that was with another writer to decide that.
Please! She knows. Women just know that stuff.;)


Kirkman is a great writer, but he's just not meant to do a X-book.
I think he's showing how mediocre he is not only in this book, but in his other books as well.

[Sparda]

Technically in the Ultimate verse Emma Frost was never scott's woman to begin with so she does'nt count:p Besides that, she must be 24 or 25, way to old for scott in this continuity. Plus she's not as bitchy or mean as her other self and not to mention, does'nt wear the skimpy clothes that we all know and love.

[kel25]

And even though Wolverine finally got easily dealt with while doing his Wolverine Leap, he still kinda saved the day through 2ndrd healing factor, which can now regrow limbs appearantly.It was already established that Wolverines Healing Factor can regrow limbs. He had part of his finger cut off in USM and it regrew. With what happened to him during the Hulk fight; it’s not so hard to believe that his Healing Factor could regrow an arm.

[carabas]

Besides, like i said zillions of times, the main problem is not Xavier being old enough to be her father (not that it isn't a problem), but Xavier being a father figure to her and treating her as a daughter before. You can't possibly making it not be creepy, or work.

First of all, where does it say in the book that this is intended to either work or not be creepy?
And secondly, where does it say that Ultimate Jean sees Xavier as a father figure (it might, I'm not going to reread the entire series to check,but I recall no such relationship existing) ?

[Teitr Styrr]

Hmm. Well, after reading this and the cliffhanger, I thought someone must be influencing Charles feelings. It's obvious Jean is a bit bonkers after the whole Phoenix, Lilandra, Magician stuff, and with the goblins, so it could be her feelings for Charles influencing him. Or hell, it could be remanents from Magician. I just don't think it's going to turn out that Charles loves Jean that way.

Ultimate Domino is quite the badass.

So this fractured Jean is going to be Ultimate Goblin Queen?

[Omega Alpha]

Hmm. Well, after reading this and the cliffhanger, I thought someone must be influencing Charles feelings. It's obvious Jean is a bit bonkers after the whole Phoenix, Lilandra, Magician stuff, and with the goblins, so it could be her feelings for Charles influencing him. Or hell, it could be remanents from Magician. I just don't think it's going to turn out that Charles loves Jean that way.

Ultimate Domino is quite the badass.

So this fractured Jean is going to be Ultimate Goblin Queen?

:confused:
There was never any indication that Jean loves Xavier, not in that way at least.

[Teitr Styrr]

That's true, but there's never any indication of anything, until, well, there is.

Mostly tho, I think Charles is not himself. That's my main point.

[Rollo_Tomasi]

Do we know Ultimate Professor X's correct age?

And what's up with Syndicate? Did I miss something?

[Omega Alpha]

Do we know Ultimate Professor X's correct age?


There isn't a specific date, but he's in his middle age, being mid or late 40's, i believe.

[karasu]

The insanity of the last page aside, I don't like Kirkman's dialogue at all.

Cable seems like the most unnecessary "re imagining" ever.

[seeso]

Please, please, please, Marvel - take Kirkman off this book!

[Locue]

Have to say, the more I find that I enjoy reading all your complaining, I want Kirkman to stay.

[justanotherfan89]

So i know that some people are upset with the whole Xavier loving Jean thing, but I don't think it is Kirkman's fault.

Just hear me out, but I think think Xavier first started developing feelings for Jean during Bendis' run. Remember when Jean was in her room talking to someone but we didn't know who? (it is not the phoenix because the text bubbles were white) I think it was Xavier which makes since because he says "The professer is here for you, and so am I." Meaning that as a teacher Xavier is there for Jean, but also as a person/lover. This might sound stretched to some of you, but if that wasn't Bendis' orignal plan I could see Kirkman pulling a recton and saying it was Xavier.

Then in Vaughn's run, Xavier sinced the flip back and forth because he would get angry whenever Jean called him Charles. I would say Jean had developed some feelings for Xavier, but he would try and deny his "love" for her and tried to keep a student/teacher relationship.

Leave it to Kirkman to tie everything together, but this probably has been an ongoing plot line. Remember the "Colossus being homosexual" plot started during Millar's run but wasn't fully revealed till Vaughn's.

So there it is, some of you might think I am on crack but oh well. Just remember that the Ultimate Xaver is not perfect at all, and has made questionable decisions in the past. Personally I would like to see Xavier continue a relationship with Jean and they leave the school together. It disgusts me, but it would keep me very interested. Believe it or not, there are many cases when teachers think they are in "love" with their students.

[firestarfan]

Xavier secretly loving Jean, having it become the basis of his decision making, letting readers figure it out slowly, seeing the team AND the Prof suffer for it = great writing

Xavier yelling it at Scott = bad writing.

[Towelie88]

Good point. It was like the ending of a bad soap opera. A really bad soap opera. He should have confessed to not being able to read, or being Scott's father while he was at it.

[QuietRiver]

It wasn't sprung out of nowhere this book, was it? Didn't Xavier tell Jean he loves her when she went apey on Lilandra?

[Omega Alpha]

It wasn't sprung out of nowhere this book, was it? Didn't Xavier tell Jean he loves her when she went apey on Lilandra?

Yes, but it wasn't necessarily in the "i want to make babies with you" way, and it certainly wasn't how Jean understood it.

[wingsofdamnation]

1000th post YAY!!!!!

i feel like im the only one who is actually enjoying kirkmans run. everywhere i look someone is bashing kirkman. i'm enjoying ultimate xmen for the first time since millar. i couldnt stand BKV's run and bendis' one arc was a disaster. i understand most of the comments like how everyone hates that prof x loves jean and the magician. but still overall i think this run is going great.

[QuietRiver]

Do we know Ultimate Professor X's correct age?

And what's up with Syndicate? Did I miss something?

Go back to the beginning of the Phoenix Rising arc(I think thats the one). Xavier is about to tell Syndicate summat but is interrupted by a call from Kitty's mom. The Xavier call to Syndicate in book 77 is the follow up to that.