When exactly did Batman discover he was mindwiped?

[Hush Little Batman]

When the 'Crisis of Conscience' storyline (JLA 115-119) begins, Batman already knows he was wiped. So my question is what issue did he find out? Was it in one of the regular Batman ongoings or was it in another book like JLA or Teen Titans? Issue number[s] would be helpful too so I can track it down.

[rwe1138]

I don't think DC ever showed the moment of realization. I think it was more of a gradual discovery; one of those "between the issues" things.

[saintsaucey]

he figured it out in Identity Crisis/Countdown to Infinite Crisis

though he always kind of suspected. thats why he was so paranoid

[Hush Little Batman]

he figured it out in Identity Crisis/Countdown to Infinite Crisis

He didn't figure it out in Identity Crisis; that I know for sure.

[shanejayell]

It's not stated outright, but it seems to me that at the end of IC he suspects SOMETHING.

[TheBatGotHim]

It's not stated outright, but it seems to me that at the end of IC he suspects SOMETHING.


Yep. I agree. Thats what it seemed like to me.

[Hush Little Batman]

Batman suspected Flash wasn't telling him something since Wally wasn't acting normally and looked at him strangely, but there's no way he thought it involved himself being mind-wiped by Zatanna.

[shanejayell]

That's the start, tho. I doubt they ever have him go "Yup, I was mind fucked by the JLA" on panel.. the closest was a bit in the 'Red Hood' stories. He really treats Zatanna coldly, so I assume he knew by then.

[Hush Little Batman]

That's the start, tho.

I'm not disputing that Batman's suspicions began at the end of IC, but to say that he'd realized he'd been mind-wiped based on Flash's behavior is too far a leap.

[ChthonicSpirit]

In his last (pre-OYL) appearance in Outsiders, he was in the process of figuring it out. Don't know exact issue number, though.

[Ms. M]

It is weird that they never showed any precise moment of discovery. It could have made for a dramatic story. With all the Batman titles out there, I can't believe nobody thought they could center an issue around this.

[dreyga2000]

In Identitny Crisis GA basically said Batman and Superman know alot about the things that go around but ignore them or choose not to acknowlegde them... So from what understood he knew for the most part in Identity Crisis...

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

He even yelled at J'onn to get out of his head, which I've never seen him do.

He knew in Identity Crisis.

[Kara Zor El]

I think they dd it the way they did to keep us guessing. We got little clues. Zatanna being a big one. And it all helped the drama and thrill aspect of it. What's he going to do next? Does he really know for sure or is he trying to trick them into revealing their secret? He could have just known they had something on him. I ythink it allk helps add to the mystery of Batman's persona. I was pleased with the way it was done. It's good to read between the lines and nbot be spoonfed plot.

[jadrax]

I suspect that after he discovered the Superman had mind wiped him during the Emperor Joker story Batman started doing a little digging and discovered the Zatana wipe.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

Batman found out the same way Dr. Light found out.


Remember in Identity Crisis where the JLA are holding Deathstroke down in the same way that Light was held down before he was mindwiped and it jolted Light's memory? Same thing happened with Batman, Two-Face was being held down by Robin, Batgirl, etc. the same way that Batman was held down when he was mindwiped and it just came back to him. I can't remember what book/issue, but that definitely happened on panel as I remember it clearly.



Perhaps I'll just have to go searching through the back issues......

[Hush Little Batman]

Batman found out the same way Dr. Light found out.


Remember in Identity Crisis where the JLA are holding Deathstroke down in the same way that Light was held down before he was mindwiped and it jolted Light's memory? Same thing happened with Batman, Two-Face was being held down by Robin, Batgirl, etc. the same way that Batman was held down when he was mindwiped and it just came back to him. I can't remember what book/issue, but that definitely happened on panel as I remember it clearly.



Perhaps I'll just have to go searching through the back issues......

If you can find out what series/issue that took place in, I'd appreciate the info. :)

[rwe1138]

If you can find out what series/issue that took place in, I'd appreciate the info. :)

Identitly Crisis #3

[Hush Little Batman]

Identitly Crisis #3

Batman wasn't even in that issue.

[superfriend]

There is the issue of Adventures of Superman #636 by Greg Rucka and Rags Morales where Superman has Batman and Wonder Woman to the Fortress and he tells them he suspects Light was mindwiped. This was post-Identity Crisis with a cover label of Identity Compromised. I think it was "Road to Ruin" Pt. 1.

This is where Wonder Woman says they should've killed him, Batman flashes back to himself being mindwiped but is not quite putting it together and Superman laments he wasn't paying enough attention to what was going on at the time to know they even did it.

The Big Three part ways, storming off in different directions for the most part.

[OverMaster]

Batman wasn't even in that issue.

I think he's talking about Dr. Light remembering.

[rwe1138]

I think he's talking about Dr. Light remembering.

Yup, I was. I haven't even heard of the Two-Face one.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

If you can find out what series/issue that took place in, I'd appreciate the info. :)


I'll take a look....I've been looking for an excuse to bury myself in comics and read all day anyway.

[The Xenos]

Mind wipe? What's this talk about a mind wipe? And what's this Identity Crisis everyone's talking about?

[Kara Zor El]

Mind wipe? What's this talk about a mind wipe? And what's this Identity Crisis everyone's talking about?

Identity Crisis was a minis series about the JLA that lead into Infinite Crisis. In it Sue Dibney was murdered and the JLA tried and succeeded in finding out who. During the story it became clear that Doctor Light had discovered the secret identities of the JLA and to save their loved ones harm, and in one case further harm, they got Zatanna to wipe Dr Light's memory of that knowledge. Batman caught them in the middle of it and so they wiped his memory of that discovery, and that is why he has been so paranoid all these years. The JLA members who did this didn't include Superman or Wonder Woman. As a result of all this and then Batman finding out. The JLA fell apart at the worst possible moment; just before Alexander Luthor let loose his diabolical plot on Earth 1.

[HOLD DAT]

Mind wipe? What's this talk about a mind wipe? And what's this Identity Crisis everyone's talking about?

i have a feeling Xenos was just kidding with thiese questions


Identity Crisis was a minis series about the JLA that lead into Infinite Crisis. In it Sue Dibney was murdered and the JLA tried and succeeded in finding out who. During the story it became clear that Doctor Light had discovered the secret identities of the JLA and to save their loved ones harm, and in one case further harm, they got Zatanna to wipe Dr Light's memory of that knowledge. Batman caught them in the middle of it and so they wiped his memory of that discovery, and that is why he has been so paranoid all these years. The JLA members who did this didn't include Superman or Wonder Woman. As a result of all this and then Batman finding out. The JLA fell apart at the worst possible moment; just before Alexander Luthor let loose his diabolical plot on Earth 1.

but thanks for your answer. this alone has me interested in reading DC comics now

[Kara Zor El]

i have a feeling Xenos was just kidding with thiese questions
Doh! (slaps own head)



but thanks for your answer. this alone has me interested in reading DC comics now

Ah, not so bad after all. Rubs own head with gentle soothing strokes.
:D

[OverMaster]

but thanks for your answer. this alone has me interested in reading DC comics now

Eh, for my taste, all that 'heroes being jerks to each other and brainwashing people at the drop of a hat' business brought far more bad than good, but to each his own...

[Augusto]

When the 'Crisis of Conscience' storyline (JLA 115-119) begins, Batman already knows he was wiped. So my question is what issue did he find out? Was it in one of the regular Batman ongoings or was it in another book like JLA or Teen Titans? Issue number[s] would be helpful too so I can track it down.

Batman is someone very aware of the things around him. As a detective, he has to be very keen and see the whole picture of every situation so he can outsmart anybody. He has to be a very accurate observer. He has to be aware of the time he spend with JLA because he has to watch Gotham.

And everything beggins when (offpanel) he realize that he's missing then minutes. And Sue is in a hospital for being raped (he would know), and there is no guilty or search for a suspect. And all it happened in the same frame of time. He took that day, step by step, detective skills reaching his peak, and realizing something was wrong. If not physically, he'd knew that someone was messing with his mind. And even he knows that when is needed, JLA erase their names, as they did to the Injustice gang.

[Jkid099]

There really is no moment in any actual issue in which it could be established that "Batman realized." Logically, it had to have been BEFORE Identity Crisis (that is, after the actual event of Batman's "lost 10 minutes" and Dr. Light's lobotomy, and before the events of the mini-series) and the entire Countdown to Infinite Crisis for the existence of Brother Eye to come into play. Despite Batman's resources, I don't think he could have created the machine "in one long weekend." Judging by how Brother Eye wasn't too far off from the "plans to take out the Justice League" that were featured in the "Tower of Babel" storyline, it's safe to say he created it long before Sue Dibney was murdered.

Not to mention schematics for Brother Eye were being viewed by Maxwell Lord (at the time only known as "Shadowy Bad Guy") in the Superman Secret Files & Origins 2004 edition, which came out around the same time as the first issue of Identity Crisis.

[barbarous j]

In Identitny Crisis GA basically said Batman and Superman know alot about the things that go around but ignore them or choose not to acknowlegde them... So from what understood he knew for the most part in Identity Crisis...

Yeah, he said they hear what they wanna hear, and figure out what they wanna figure out. He was probably just willing to let sleeping dogs lay, but when it started hitting the fan, he decided he couldn't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

[bannermanonemillion]

Yeah, he said they hear what they wanna hear, and figure out what they wanna figure out. He was probably just willing to let sleeping dogs lay, but when it started hitting the fan, he decided he couldn't afford to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

I think Ollie was thinking that maybe if Superman would let it slide, so would Batman, mainly because the thought of Batman being PO'd was wayyyy too scary a thought.

Later (I think in Crisis of Conscience) Superman did admit that he knew about the League removing their secret IDs from the bad guys and, yeah turned a blind eye, but he had no clue about the Dr. Light affair.

[Tequilamokinbrd]

I know, I just KNOW that I saw a panel that mirrored the one where the league holds down light, only with the bat-family holding two face instead.

I can't remember where I saw it, and I looked but couldn't find it in my longboxes, it might be there, I just got lazy and stopped looking not even gonna lie.

But I can't have been the only person that saw this panel, someone reading this must be able to give us a book and an issue number.