Justice League of America #4 Spoilers... "stupid no more" [Archive]

sly_kat

12-11-2006, 06:45 PM

Just got and finished my Justice League of America #4 and figured id post a couple things... just gotta say wow! Makes for an interesting issue and a surprising ending'
:eek:
Plus the individual in question on the last page of Justice Society #1 in that panel is in fact.... Geoforce, Brion, whose appearance is more of a boat crash and summoning of Black Lightning then an actual step in as the mystery 11th member of the Justice League

add that to a lil of Staro being.. a partial construct of Ivo.. and yes everyone's got on, Dr. Impossible, Plastique, Electrocutioner, but none for Ivo of course...oh and the one they partially pull off of Trident

oh and that little construct that hadnt moved yet... comes to life, red tornado amazo flys off before being fully charged and knocks green latern, black canary and.... ((We finally have his name here... yes... RED ARROW (arsenal's step up) )) down....

Add all that to the surprise villain behind it all.. i never would have guessed this ....and let me just say, he ain't too stupid no more;)... especially to smash some heroes who get in his way:D

We R. Venom

12-11-2006, 06:58 PM

Well that sounds interesting as hell. especially the part about Roy! Well I might have to pick this one up and read away. The others have been good too.

CYOTI

12-11-2006, 07:38 PM

Add all that to the surprise villain behind it all.. i never would have guessed this ....and let me just say, he ain't too stupid no more;)... especially to smash some heroes who get in his way:DHe has always had the capability of being intelligent, it's just dependent on his resurrection.

sly_kat

12-11-2006, 09:29 PM

He has always had the capability of being intelligent, it's just dependent on his resurrection.

Oh i know, i was just making a pun about it:) since every once in a while (spoiler) Solomon Grundy will be used by someone, but not many use him as an inteligent being with intents against heroes and using his brains and connections to construct his plans.

Wayne

12-11-2006, 10:01 PM

Idon't know you guys...I liked the preview...I've liked the serie so far... Hope It will get (even) better.

PastePotPete

12-13-2006, 04:10 PM

Just read it. Great issue.

Guess all the complainers who hate Meltzer's League haven't found this thread yet.

Any second there will be a horde of fanboys screaming about how the Big Three "haven't even left the cave!"

The other day, one guy was screaming about how Issue 7 is the actual debut of the team and their new headquarters.

Am I insane when I say that I'm fine with that? I mean, this is an ongoing series. If it goes on indefinitely, then we'll see many many more adventures. I'm fine with a six-issue arc that allows this group to bond and really form as a team. And I don't care if the Big Three leave the cave as long as they're doing something. And I've been really interested in their interactions so far.

JSA #1 was a great book. Everyone was praising how the team was formed in the first issue. Yeah, and it's MOSTLY the old team with some new characters thrown in. A new reader might be left asking "Who are these guys? What's their relationship to one another?" Still a great book.

So is Justice League so far. It's just telling its story at a different pace.

Steve Brady

12-13-2006, 06:39 PM

Is that Grundy, or is that ZOR! :P

ultramandingo

12-13-2006, 09:31 PM

whats with super guy not use'in the super x-ray eyballs on the robo star fish ? i guess he felt it was a chance to let batman feel all big and stuff - what a guy!

skally19

12-13-2006, 09:46 PM

it shows supes using the xray at the same time bats is checkin

drwho

12-13-2006, 10:53 PM

I'm officially starting to not like this book. When can we get new stories? First off Starro and Amazo again. Tired of the reuse of the same characters.Also now we have business man Grundy. OH the horror. I always thought the visual of Red Tornado was pretty cool, but no way do they need to have a six issue story arc focusing on him. This title has me at least till issue 8 and at that time i'll decide if I want to drop it.

PhantomZoneZod

12-13-2006, 11:40 PM

So, I'm curious. Besides being a horrible artist is Michael Turner also so retarded he can't tell the different between a G and an R. Did someone tell him Green Arrow was going to be in this book and they just changed the hair and put a different color after Turner was done? Did Turner think he would be called Garnet Arrow? On two covers now he has put a G on the Red Arrow's costume, while on Ed Bene's big cover it was an R and on the action figure DC Direct is putting out its an R. Learn the alphabet, Michael Turner. And take some lessons on how to draw.

Desaad

12-13-2006, 11:43 PM

SPOILERS!

When was the last time Starro was used? Morrison's run.

When was the last time Amazo was used? One issue by Millar.

When was the last time Grundy was used in a JLA book? I can't think of it.

These are reinventions and re-imaginings of classic JLA villains. This is how it SHOULD be, IMHO. Using what came before, but putting your own spin on it.

Its not as if the Starro's are the main villain. They are radically altered, and just one piece in a rather large and complex puzzle. Same with Amazo, and same with Grundy. Every issue shouldn't be the introduction of a brand new character or villain (though that, I have to add, was done with Dr. Impossible).

I really enjoyed the issue, by the way. Would have been best of the week had Cooke's stellar "Spirit" not come out the same day (as is, that blew all the competition out of the water).

kal_el21

12-14-2006, 12:02 AM

This issue was great! I have so much respect for Meltzer because I have sooooooooo much respect now for Grundy.

wulfstone

12-14-2006, 12:17 AM

i am a big fan of morrison jla but i think im starting to like this more i actually care about these characters and the plot is very compelling.

plus geo-force! how cool is that.

AaronJ

12-14-2006, 12:20 AM

And take some lessons on how to draw.

Nice first post. Really impressive.

AaronJ

12-14-2006, 12:23 AM

i am a big fan of morrison jla but i think im starting to like this more i actually care about these characters and the plot is very compelling.

plus geo-force! how cool is that.

Exactly.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I didn't know squat about Red Tornado, and I now really care about him.

Dinah is being portrayed as a total bad-ass. Hal is his usual cool self. Roy is just Roy, doing cool stuff and taking people out, with time to make all sorts of quips.

It's nice to see the Big Three all set to go to battle, but also working together.

I'm very interested in the characters with whom I'm not that familiar.

Overall, this has been a great title, and I can't wait to see where it goes.

"Let me get my mace."

jadrax

12-14-2006, 02:58 AM

Awesome book, and I would never have guessed that villain in a 1000 years.

StrikeForce Albert

12-14-2006, 06:29 AM

I loved the hyper paced action of the Morrison run

But I like this aswell, which is wierd cause I usually want team comics movieng at a faster pace than this.

Jack Zodiac

12-14-2006, 10:50 AM

I really hope the pace picks up once everyone's together, because half of the book was great, and the other half was uninteresting as hell. I loved seeing Hal, Roy, and Dinah kicking the crap out of Ivo and his puppets (and man am I loving Dr. Impossible), but the stuff back in the Batcave, the wasted two page spread just focusing on Superman trying to pry a Starro off, I could do without. Thankfully, the book had some decent payoff for the past four issues. New Amazo, new angle on Ivo's immortality, new hint about the last member (though I was really pullin' for Booster instead of Geo-Force), and a whole new completely different Solomon Grundy. Born on a Monday. Went to College on Wednesday. Got his Masters on Thursday. Built a bunch of highly advanced Starro robotic parasites that rival Morrow, Ivo, and Magnus on Friday. Interesting, and a whole different kind of Grundy, so I hope it's explained pretty well in the next issue.

All in all, an improvement over the last four issues, but still quite slow with some really unnecessary stuff thrown in.

Sean Walsh

12-14-2006, 01:12 PM

Awesome book, and I would never have guessed that villain in a 1000 years.

When I saw the fist, I listed in my head every "big guy" villain I could thing. The General, Ultra-Humanite, Doomsday, Amazo...

And Grundy; and honestly, he was the only one I doubted before I got to that last page.

But dammit........remembering Archer's Quest, it made more sense than all the others. :p

SKETCHSANCHEZ

12-14-2006, 02:22 PM

Exactly.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I didn't know squat about Red Tornado, and I now really care about him.

Dinah is being portrayed as a total bad-ass. Hal is his usual cool self. Roy is just Roy, doing cool stuff and taking people out, with time to make all sorts of quips.

It's nice to see the Big Three all set to go to battle, but also working together.

I'm very interested in the characters with whom I'm not that familiar.

Overall, this has been a great title, and I can't wait to see where it goes.

"Let me get my mace."

We're always on the same wavelength bud, lets just say you took the words outta my mouth.

dupersuper

12-14-2006, 03:40 PM

Jack Tango

12-14-2006, 03:58 PM

I don't like Red Arrow as a name, but I do like that it was because Green Lantern kept wanting to call him Roy. Nice touch.

Smart Grundy was a great pick-up on the theme established by James Robinson, in that Solomon Grundy is reborn different every time he dies, and this is the first one that has attempted to take steps to prevent his eventual death.

I'm not sure if this is going to happen or not, but it would be even better if we learned that Grundy has been reborn smart on numerous occasions, each time setting things up for the future before being killed by his experiences, or the Justice Society, or whatever, having to cycle through all his varying personalities until he once again becomes smart.

I'm enjoying the ride so far!

Joe Acro

12-14-2006, 04:08 PM

When was the last time Starro was used? Morrison's run.
Actually, Starro wasn't even used then. Morrison created a new character similar to Starro called either The Star Conqueror or "It". Before then, Starro was last seen in Justice League Europe. His actual last appearance was in JLA/Avengers.

In any case, I'm glad this turned out not to be Starro. The placement of the Starros was wrong. Besides the revelation at the end, I thought this was a solid issue.

Magneto_X

12-14-2006, 04:39 PM

When was the last time Amazo was used? One issue by Millar.

Actually an Amazo showed up in a core Batman title years after that, but before Morrison's run on Bats.

notintheface

12-14-2006, 05:19 PM

I liked it overall, but can any one explain to me why SUPERMAN had such a hard time prying off the modified Starro probe, while Red Arrow was shooting them off with ease left and right??? Seriously odd...

Because for all his powers, Superman's a big ol' softie when it comes to not hurting people. He was holding back.

ultramandingo

12-14-2006, 05:36 PM

a whole different kind of Grundy, so I hope it's explained pretty well in the next issue..

back in "starman" james robison had this deal that grundy sometimes got a new personality when he got re-"born on a monday", but mostly its been grundy smash!

Jack

12-14-2006, 05:53 PM

I find it odd that previously, Meltzer characterised the difference between Roy and Ollie in that when apprehending Catman, Ollie aimed to pin his shoulder to the wall and Roy aimed to pin his clothes to the wall, with both telling the other that he'd missed.

And yet here, Roy starts off a fight by putting arrows straight through the shoulders of the enemies. I get that it was used to show that they were under mind-control, it just seems odd that Meltzer would do such a thing.

Jack Zodiac

12-14-2006, 06:15 PM

Gingold

12-14-2006, 08:24 PM

Okay, I'm done. I'm dropping this turkey.

Gottaluvit

12-14-2006, 10:17 PM

Well, to be fair, he was previously mischaracterizing Roy. In "Archer's Quest," Roy had already been Arsenal for quite a while and was more violent with his enemies. In that story, it would've been more like him to pin someone to a wall through their shoulder. Now, he's just getting out of the Outsiders where he's been even more aggressive than usual, so it's not unusual to see him pin a couple people through their shoulders.

Do you really feel Roy was more violent with his enemies? I know Ollie could be very prone to roughing his adversauries up..a lot in fact..I really didn't see Roy as being more violent with his enemies untill his portrayal in the VU special. Pinning someone to the wall by their shoulder seemed very much an Ollie thing to me, or at least Ollie as he was prior to his death. I guess its all a matter of opinion really, but I didn't see that scene as out of character at all.

Bored at 3:00AM

12-14-2006, 10:48 PM

This is not a great, but it is certainly a very good Justice League story thus far. Meltzer's playing with all the toys, having fun doing it and giving us a different perspective on these various characters at the same time. The pacing feels a bit iffy at times, but that's to be expected given that Meltzer still hasn't nailed the finicky nature of the monthly 22 page serial yet (which very few writers have).

Glad we're seeing the naration move around a bit. Switching from Roy to Hal this issue was nice. Hopefully, we'll hear from Dinah shortly. Meltzer's biggest weaknesses as a comic writer is that his female character tend to be the least developed. Archer's Quest was almost uniformly a boy's club and Identity Crisis never got us inside the female characters' head despite the fact that the entire plot revolved around women. I've never read any of Meltzer's novels so I don't know if this is a problem he struggles with there as well, but his comics are a little too male-voiced for my tastes. There are so few superhero comics with female leads worth reading that team books like this are the places superheroines get to shine for me. Aside from Dinah's ass-kicking last issue (with emphasis on "ass"), she hasn't made much of an impression yet. Same goes for Wonder Woman--but that tends to be her problem even in her own book.

Benes is doing very good work and I'm starting to see some improvement, but not enough for my tastes. His faces and body types are still a bit too uniform. His men are divided into either big guys or really big guys and his women all look exactly the same. Granted, this is all Jim Lee is capable of and he's managed to do very well for himself so I can see why Benes isn't really feeling the need to branch out with a little more variety.

Overall, I'm enjoying myself. The slow ramp up was risky choice, but I'm starting to see the pay-off now as things start moving faster and faster and the danger ramps up more and more. If this keeps up, next issue will be a doozy.

sly_kat

12-15-2006, 12:51 AM

Okay, I'm done. I'm dropping this turkey.

why is that? grundy in a suit to eh for u? or the fact we gotta wait 7 issues for this whole team thing to 'click'....
and out of curiousity anyone else reading about dr. impossible and how kewl he is, maybe get the odd feeling he could be scott free?

redlantern2051

12-15-2006, 04:39 AM

Just finished reading the issue. Loving it so far. I was happy to see Starro, and the ending shocked me. I have zero problems with a bit of build-up to this series, and I think its being executed really well. I like it, a lot.

Jack Tango

12-15-2006, 09:43 AM

Actually, Starro wasn't even used then. Morrison created a new character similar to Starro called either The Star Conqueror or "It". Before then, Starro was last seen in Justice League Europe. His actual last appearance was in JLA/Avengers.

Nope; the Star Conqueror was Starro. Remember, Starro's full name was "Starro the star Conqueror." The Starro used in Morrison's run was not the same Starro as previous incarnations, but a different strain that was absolutely, positively immense in size.

Still, same guy, same basic concept, just slightly tweaked. :D

titanfan

12-15-2006, 09:50 AM

I liked it overall, but can any one explain to me why SUPERMAN had such a hard time prying off the modified Starro probe, while Red Arrow was shooting them off with ease left and right??? Seriously odd...

The way it looked like the starros were attached, it was like trying to break a rubber band by pulling it apart vs. just cutting it with a scissors.

brundlefly

12-15-2006, 10:33 AM

This was the best issue of Metzler's JLA so far. I certainly did not predict Grundy as the mastermind, but it works/makes sense/ties into his history, which is why it was so cool a twist. Ditto on the love for Dr. Impossible; the bit with him yelling about his Apokalyptian street cred was great. "I studied under Desaad!"

Question: Has this "13 Immortals on Earth" concept that Ivo was raving about been referenced before in other titles or is this a new thing that Metzler's introducing? I'm curious as to who the other 12 are, what with all the extremely long-lived characters that are running around the DCU.

Schornforce

12-15-2006, 11:40 AM

Question: Has this "13 Immortals on Earth" concept that Ivo was raving about been referenced before in other titles or is this a new thing that Metzler's introducing? I'm curious as to who the other 12 are, what with all the extremely long-lived characters that are running around the DCU.

IIRC way back in Byrne's run of Wonder Woman, Morgaine LeFaye had several characters she deemed immortal trussed up to some life-draining device or something. I think I remember Vandal Savage and Etrigan being among them. Wonder Woman was thought to be immortal, but she'd forsaken her immortality to be the ambassador to man's world.

Joe Acro

12-15-2006, 03:53 PM

Nope; the Star Conqueror was Starro. Remember, Starro's full name was "Starro the star Conqueror." The Starro used in Morrison's run was not the same Starro as previous incarnations, but a different strain that was absolutely, positively immense in size.

Still, same guy, same basic concept, just slightly tweaked. :D
Well, I remember Starro's name being just The Conqueror, but perhaps I am mistaken. Even still, the Conqueror used in Morrison's run was never called Starro but did have powers similar to Starro. It didn't look like him, either. Thus, Starro, as we know him/it, hasn't been seen in known DC continuity since Justice League Europe, where he was left in the hands of Manga Khan.

Not the same guy, but it is a tweaked version of the same concept.

Hush Little Batman

12-16-2006, 12:37 AM

A lot of readers seem to think JSA is better because it came out 'guns-a-blazin' in its first issue, but what they don't realize is that the JSA didn't have the personal meltdown from within like the JLA did. Meltzer needs to reestablish and rebuild the trust and friendship between Bruce, Diana and Clark, especially after different writers have spent the better part of a year or two tearing it down.

IMO, the first couple of issues couldn't have the new team formed and fighting together that easily. It HAS to be more personal and character driven or else the last couple of years would hold no absolutely no water whatsoever. There's no better way than for us, as readers, to truly care about Red Tornado than to get to know his plight and how it affects his family. I don't need to see him fight a bunch of villains to start liking him because he's been doing that for years and I never gave a $#*! about him before. I need to understand the character and while he's still not a favorite of mine, Meltzer has done a good job making me want to know what's going to happen to him.

I've really enjoyed the slow build this book is taking as opposed to the "throw-everything-and-the-kitchen-sink-into-issue-one" approach seemingly every other title takes. The Trinity have not left the cave for four issues, but within comic time, it's probably only been a few hours so it make sense. No, the book isn't perfect and some things need to be worked on, but I'm enjoying it. I want the big-time action, but it'll mean more if I care about the characters who are taking part in said action and for that, we need to have character-driven plots.

I look at JLA like a movie that spends the first 45 minutes to 1 hour setting up all it players before it kicks into high gear - kinda like James Cameron's 'Aliens'. The aliens didn't show up until the 56 minute mark (roughly) but when they did, you cared what happened to Ripley, Newt and the Marines because so much time was spent developing them.

As for the ending: I don't think I ever would've guessed that Solomun Grundy was the mastermind behind it all. That was a great reveal at the end. I can't wait to see what Meltzer plans on doing with this new incarnation.

Sean Whitmore

12-16-2006, 01:23 AM

When was the last time Amazo was used? One issue by Millar.

The Hourman series, I believe.

I liked it overall, but can any one explain to me why SUPERMAN had such a hard time prying off the modified Starro probe, while Red Arrow was shooting them off with ease left and right??? Seriously odd...

Superman was carefully trying not to break it (which he failed, which should show how tough it is.) Roy didn't give a crap.

SEAN

Sean Whitmore

12-16-2006, 01:28 AM

This series is still just barely keeping me on. Overall it's an intriguing storyline, especially with the reveals this issue. And I'm especially enjoying all the little touches here and there...Father Box, hidden Starros, villains using their powers as addictive substances.

But Meltzer has still not yet conquered the difference between writing a novel and writing a comic. He is telling, not showing, he's going off on too many tangents (I'm sorry, but after 4 issues of mystery I don't wanna be reading about what Hal thinks of Roy), and even the action scenes feel plodding.

Story, good. Presentation, not there yet.

SEAN

saintsaucey

12-16-2006, 03:33 AM

Actually an Amazo showed up in a core Batman title years after that, but before Morrison's run on Bats.winnick used him about two years ago in the Batman series, I'll assume thats what you are talking about. The ending was great. I to prefer the arsenal code name but i understand they are trying to head for the kindom come continuety and bringing back hal and bringing in connor as red arrow is just the begining

Mighty Broke

12-16-2006, 07:46 AM

Is that Grundy, or is that ZOR! :p

That dapper suit makes me believe that Zor's influence on Grundy is beginning to surface.

Hush Little Batman

12-16-2006, 07:51 AM

But Meltzer has still not yet conquered the difference between writing a novel and writing a comic.

I agree that Meltzer seems to be taking his time as he would a novel, and that wouldn't be so bad if all the issues were going to be released simultaneously (ala a trade), but for a serialized monthly, it can come off a bit slow.

Much like Ultimates vol. 1, I think JLA will definitely read a lot better when it's collected into a trade and I think many of today's comic writers are plotting their arcs out expressly for that purpose. Whether or not that's a good or bad thing is another story entirely.

SKETCHSANCHEZ

12-16-2006, 09:16 AM

I think many of today's comic writers are plotting their arcs out expressly for that purpose. Whether or not that's a good or bad thing is another story entirely.

I think that comes down to personal preference, cuz I dont think it's a trend that hurting the actual industry or anything. Thats just me, I'm sure.

Gingold

12-16-2006, 11:49 AM

why is that? grundy in a suit to eh for u? or the fact we gotta wait 7 issues for this whole team thing to 'click'....
and out of curiousity anyone else reading about dr. impossible and how kewl he is, maybe get the odd feeling he could be scott free?

Ugly art, dreadfully slow pacing, bad dialogue, annoying textbox narration, and the fact that the book just doesn't have the tone or mood of what I want in my JLA stories. I gave it a shot and it's continued to fail to impress, so I'm going to stop buying it and stop bitching about it.

David O Burcham

12-17-2006, 08:58 AM

I don't like the dark color pallette and the internal dialouge boxes (caption boxes are for writer narration, thought balloons are for interal dialouge, dag-NABBIT)... but that is more of a gripe about most modern comic books in general instead of just this series.

Alls I knows is Solomon Grundy finally got his pants, too.

I'm sold.

I'm just wondering when the Multiplex duplicate Reddy is housed in will start to decompose... it would be typical Felix Faust bastardness.

Jack Zodiac

12-17-2006, 11:49 AM

I don't like the dark color pallette and the internal dialouge boxes (caption boxes are for writer narration, thought balloons are for interal dialouge, dag-NABBIT)... but that is more of a gripe about most modern comic books in general instead of just this series.

I don't mind that this has become common these days, but stylizing them for everyone is just a stupid idea, especially when Black Lightning's monologue boxes are navy blue with yellow text and the scene takes place in a cave. I wanted to dig my eyes out of my skull trying to read that.

saintsaucey

12-17-2006, 04:52 PM

drats modded again

Jim Yost

12-18-2006, 09:06 AM

I'm along for the ride - the story's interesting enough... I just think they need another inker on Benes... the art is not up to his regular par. Too "sketchy" and "dirty" compared to his work of the past.

aukevin

12-18-2006, 09:21 AM

Enjoyed #4 quite a bit. Only thing I didn't like was that Arsenal is called Red Arrow, Arsenal was just a cooler name.

MadroxTMMan

12-18-2006, 09:59 AM

I liked the Red Arrow reference, as if Hal was having trouble remembering Roy's codename and Red Arrow just slipped out. What a colorful lineup: Red Arrow, Red Tornado, Green Lantern, Black Canary, Black Lightning...

I get the feeling that since the episode of "JLU" where they did something similar, all writers that were children of the late 70's/early 80's are going to try and remake Black Lightning as Black Vulcan from Super Friends. Anyone else clamoring for more Super/Apache Chief? Ugh.

LordAllMighty

12-18-2006, 11:10 AM

While I found the issue to be enjoyable, I still think the story is taking way to long to tell. IMHO, this whole story should have been over with by issue 3.

Also why is Vixen even on the team if all she get is one page of her flying with the birds.:mad: On the other hand, I loved the cover with Vixen on it.:D

Jack Zodiac

12-18-2006, 02:58 PM

Anyone else clamoring for more Super/Apache Chief? Ugh.

Hey! I, for one, was peepants-happy to see Super Chief back in 52, only to have him stolen away. :p

Jack Zodiac

12-18-2006, 02:59 PM

While I found the issue to be enjoyable, I still think the story is taking way to long to tell. IMHO, this whole story should have been over with by issue 3.

Biggest complaint for me. He's pacing it like a novel. Most writers could've gotten to the point he's at now with just as much necessary characterization in three issues.

PastePotPete

12-19-2006, 08:01 AM

shanejayell

12-19-2006, 09:17 AM

I do think the whole "meeting in the cave" could have been zipped through. But overall I AM liking it... and the revelation of who's behind it has me interested.

titanfan

12-19-2006, 11:16 AM

What is "novel style" pacing? It seems like the past couple of books we're only getting 3-4 panels a page!

Jack Zodiac

12-19-2006, 12:25 PM

I don't understand the pacing complaint. I think it is an unreasoned prejudice. We've been burned by decompression in the past (Bendis's non-Avengers for example) so we're oversensitive to a story that moves at a different pace than what we're used to.

If this story should have been done by issue 3, please tell me where we're wasting time/moments.

It's not like Meltzer's a special case. Plenty of people suffer from horribly slow pacing, especially Bendis. Some of the many things that could've been done away with would be his over-narration of some of the simplest thoughts, especially between the big three in the cave, and for Hal. Then you have drawn out scenes, or entirely needless scenes, like Superman prying the Starro off Trident (could've been two panels, not three pages), or Vixen's... confusing scene flying with seagulls. The thing this issue had that the last three didn't was payoff. We saw stuff go down, which made the past few, slow issues worth it.

My only problem with this book are the crap-butt Michael Turner covers. Let's lose this guy. Please. Come on. I mean, he put a 'G' on Arsenal's belt for God's sake. The guy is just not paying attention to what he's doing at all.

Yeah, he sucks. He's almost as bad as Liefeld, except he can draw proportions. Every single one of his characters are identical, though. His Black Canary's a blonde Fathom. His Vixen's a black Fathom with short hair. If he ever got the chance to draw her, his Batwoman would be a redheaded Fathom in leather. Overrated is an understatement for him.