Hardest RPGs youve ever played?

[Scorpion13]

I love RPGs, but, as a rule, I dont really think of them as all that difficult. Sure, there might be some puzzle parts that are kinda tough (Like in FF3; the opera house thing), but, as a rule, they dont seem to take too much skill.

If youre having trouble with a boss, all you really have to do is level up, and there you go. Problem solved.

So what Im asking is this: what RPGs have you played have been difficult in a way that simple leveling up wont solve?

Im not bagging on the games, I was just curious.

[Guy1]

I love RPGs, but, as a rule, I dont really think of them as all that difficult. Sure, there might be some puzzle parts that are kinda tough (Like in FF3; the opera house thing), but, as a rule, they dont seem to take too much skill.

If youre having trouble with a boss, all you really have to do is level up, and there you go. Problem solved.

So what Im asking is this: what RPGs have you played have been difficult in a way that simple leveling up wont solve?

Im not bagging on the games, I was just curious.
Xenosaga 2 was tough until I got used to the combat system.

[DrewTheXenocide]

The quick pace of FFX-2 caught me off guard for a while.

[titanfan]

Wizardry IV: Return of Werdna has to qualify as the all time hardest RPG I ever played.

I thought RPG's in the 80's were generally more difficult than they were today. Most games weren't as well balanced as they were today and you had to spend a lot more time levelling up. And often you had to solve riddles and puzzles that you couldn't just google for. I remember spending hours and hours trying to solve a simple stupid riddles in the Bard's Tale series. (No clues were given you just had to know the answer to the riddle)

[MaxofSteel]

The Emerald and Ruby Weapons in FF7 were impossible for me to beat.

Even with cheat codes I'm embarrased to say. :o

[Serik]

Star Ocean: The Second Story is difficult because there's so much content and items to get through. The game boasted an extensive item and crafting system, far beyond any of its contemporaries. And don't think about solving the puzzles without the guide or GameFAQs. I last played Star Ocean 6 or 7 years ago, so my older self might have an easier time with it.

I've also read that whoever designed Final Fantasy III DS is a saddist. :)

[Donald M.]

I ever completed Vagrant Story for the PSX. It was different in that the system required you to upgrade your weapons rather than your character. I could never get used to it and found it very hard. Maybe it was that the game was hard or it was just that the game's system just wasn't for me, but that's the only RPG that ever gave me problems.

Also FF VIII. I saw others saying the game was easy, but I guess I never got the hang of that game's system for upgrading characters because I was finally forced to cheat in order to beat the final boss.

[Voncaster]

Also FF VIII. I saw others saying the game was easy, but I guess I never got the hang of that game's system for upgrading characters because I was finally forced to cheat in order to beat the final boss.

Final Fantasy VIII was damn tough. The last castle stripped you of all your abilities until you got them back one by one. And the Summon battles were really tough. Truthfully though every FF was designed to be beaten...which I think is part of their popularity.

Try playing old DOS D&D games like Champions of Krynn, Pools of Radiance and Eye of the Beholder. Seriously I don't think anyone beat those games. Back in the day I don't think developers designed their games so everyone or the majority of players could win them.

[Generic Eric]

Final Fantasy ii, Damn that game had a retarded leveling up system. Hit yourself to gain health points. The hardest part in trying to get ahead in this game was it was so boring.

Final Fanatsy adventure i & ii for the game boy get credit are some of the most hardcore rpgs I've played. Dragon Warrior Monsters is about breading the ultimate creature. The hardest part about it is how time-consuming it was. Wild Arms was a great game until some glitch in the game made it imposible for me to advance past the mines. 40 hours down the drain.

I've been replaying Legend of Zelda 1 & 2 on my GBsp and they are way harder than I remember them being when I was a kid. It really makes me fond of how polished the games that came afterward were. I'll take A link to the past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons above the originals any day.

[titanfan]

Try playing old DOS D&D games like Champions of Krynn, Pools of Radiance and Eye of the Beholder. Seriously I don't think anyone beat those games. Back in the day I don't think developers designed their games so everyone or the majority of players could win them.

Eye of the Beholder is the only D&D game I was never able to finish. There was one huge battle in the middle of the game I just could not beat. I wish there were more games in the vein of Pool of Radiance. (Temple of Elemental Evil in the modern day was pretty close) I agree about the difficulty level, I died so many times back in the day. And nowadays, you can go through console RPG's without dying at all.

[Sanagi]

Final Fantasy 8, really? I saw that as just about the easiest game I'd ever played that didn't have "for ages 3+" on the box. But yeah, I guess that depends on how well you figure out the system.

I'd tend to agree with Scorpion13, RPGs as a rule aren't difficult, just time-consuming. When I think "difficult RPG" I think of the way I'd play them back in the NES days - impatiently forging ahead into areas I wasn't prepared for. Or games like Saga Frontier or Ultima: Quest of the Avatar where the level of the random encounters can change unpredictably.

[The Fury]

Final Fantasy 8, really? I saw that as just about the easiest game I'd ever played that didn't have "for ages 3+" on the box. But yeah, I guess that depends on how well you figure out the system.
Ditto, except it wasn't because of the age thing.

If you know how to tweak the magic system and level up in your favour it is really easy. But then I knew how to tweak it. :)


For me, Kingdom Hearts 1 on Hard. WFT!!

[Gargus]

Miracle warriors made me destroy two controllers.

And it was partially due to the fact if I stopped playing to say go to school or sleep I would loose total track of where I was going or what I needed to do and had no way of finding out aside from wandering allover this giant map. Eventually I had a notebook that I would make notes in where I was, what I was doing and what needed to be done.

The fact the game was going smoothly then all the sudden I was being bombarded with monsters that every fight was a fight for my life didnt help either. I never did beat that bastard.

Phantasy star 2 was a pain also. Every 3rd step I had to fight. I cant count high enough for the times I was damn near dead and like 9 steps from a town and praying on my soul that I could make it far enough.

[Fish Sauce]

I've been replaying Legend of Zelda 1 & 2 on my GBsp and they are way harder than I remember them being when I was a kid. It really makes me fond of how polished the games that came afterward were. I'll take A link to the past, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons above the originals any day.

I was actually only talking about this today, but Link's Awakening was one mofo of a game. I've never actually finished it, cause I got 3/4 through and my save somehow got deleted. After that I just could not be bothered.

I almost had a headache just thinking about it.

[Alex]

Final Fantasy Legend 2.
Might have been because i was young, maybe because it was because RPGs weren't popular yet, but damn was that hard.
Oh, and speaking of, Dragon Warrior 1.

[Xero Kaiser]

I wish RPGs had actual combat systems. So they could find some other way of making the game difficult rather than, "this guy has 1000000000000000000000000 HP and kills you in two hits".

Not like that ever works

[Michael P]

The Emerald and Ruby Weapons in FF7 were impossible for me to beat.

Even with cheat codes I'm embarrased to say. :o

I keep hearing about how hard Emerald Weapon was. Maybe the PC version was dumbed down, but I was able to take him out fairly easily.

Now, Ruby Weapon, he was indeed a bitch.

[GozertheGozarian]

I wish RPGs had actual combat systems. So they could find some other way of making the game difficult rather than, "this guy has 1000000000000000000000000 HP and kills you in two hits".

Not like that ever works
Final Fantasy 8. Enemy levels and HP were directly related to the level of the characters.

[Jared H.]

IMO, nothing even comes close to the Shin Megami Tensei RPGs(pre- Digital Devil Saga. those were cake by comparison), especially the very 1st, and Nocturne.

I know of no-one who has beaten the latter without the strategy guide.

Hell, I have said strat guide, and I'm still plodding through, almost 2 years later.

[Sanagi]

I was actually only talking about this today, but Link's Awakening was one mofo of a game. I've never actually finished it, cause I got 3/4 through and my save somehow got deleted. After that I just could not be bothered.

I almost had a headache just thinking about it.
I never beat the last boss of that game. He was pissing me off so I stopped playing and never really went back to it.

[Generic Eric]

I was actually only talking about this today, but Link's Awakening was one mofo of a game. I've never actually finished it, cause I got 3/4 through and my save somehow got deleted. After that I just could not be bothered.

I almost had a headache just thinking about it.

Really? This is my favorite 8-bit Zelda game. I've played through that game about 5 times. One time playing the xp version without losing any lifes, getting the special ending. This for me was the most well crafted Zelda game I've ever played. The Oracle of Seasons is the one I could'nt complete.

[Xero Kaiser]

Final Fantasy 8. Enemy levels and HP were directly related to the level of the characters.

So in other words, all they did was jack up the enemy HP....which is exactly what I was talking about.

FF8 was a pitifully easy game anyway

[The Drunkard Kid]

I wish RPGs had actual combat systems. So they could find some other way of making the game difficult rather than, "this guy has 1000000000000000000000000 HP and kills you in two hits".

Not like that ever worksEh, the Tales systems were pretty good, as were Grandia. They did jack up their bosses HP, but never *that* high, IMO, and the attacks were powerful, but the real turning factor was the friggin' *speed* of the opponents. If you didn't have the right AIs set up and good item usage, you're boned.

[Xero Kaiser]

Yeah, Tales and Grandia are a step in the right direction. Honestly, I'm surprised nobody's ripping off their battle systems.

[The Drunkard Kid]

Yeah, Tales and Grandia are a step in the right direction. Honestly, I'm surprised nobody's ripping off their battle systems.Well, there are the lawsuits to consider, if they tried, though I can think of some ways to switch a few things so that one'd be safe enough.

[Chiasm]

Try playing old DOS D&D games like Champions of Krynn, Pools of Radiance and Eye of the Beholder. Seriously I don't think anyone beat those games. Back in the day I don't think developers designed their games so everyone or the majority of players could win them.

I loved those. I first played them all my Commodore 64. Then about six or seven years ago they compiled them all on one updated CD for modern computers. Only problem was that you also had to install a program to slow down your computer as the battle scenes went way to fast to follow.

I beat all the ones I played which was most of them.

[Chiasm]

There are a few places in Baldurs Gate II where I had to resort to cheese tactics to win. Especially since in BGII you have one main character and five NPC's whom you have control over. Any of the NPC's can be killed and reserrected later but if the main character dies its game over. Very annoying unless your main character is a tank character and can soak up massive damage.

[Xero Kaiser]

Well, there are the lawsuits to consider, if they tried, though I can think of some ways to switch a few things so that one'd be safe enough.

Not like anyone who ripped off GTA is getting sued.

I just meant that I hoped more RPGs would offer real-time or more interactive combat after those games came out, but it doesn't seem like that's happening

[The Drunkard Kid]

Not like anyone who ripped off GTA is getting sued.

I just meant that I hoped more RPGs would offer real-time or more interactive combat after those games came out, but it doesn't seem like that's happening
On an opposite note, I kinda liked the battle system of Evolution. It was probably as turned based as you could get, but the various skills you can gain that let you manipulate turns made it fun.

[Chou Blaster]

Final Fantasy 8. Enemy levels and HP were directly related to the level of the characters.

The Enemies leveled up on relation to your chars, but the Bosse sha dlimits.

THe Final Bos s (For story0 was around Level 64. And 8 was pitfuly easy.

And really GOd Hand (Espeicaly on Har dMod ean dthe altter challenges.) Is one damn hard fighting/brawling game. Funny and fun storyline/powers.

But dman hard.

TO me it wa sharder than Devil May Cry3.

[riftt]

IMO, nothing even comes close to the Shin Megami Tensei RPGs(pre- Digital Devil Saga. those were cake by comparison), especially the very 1st, and Nocturne.

I know of no-one who has beaten the latter without the strategy guide.

Hell, I have said strat guide, and I'm still plodding through, almost 2 years later.

exactly. Although I would say P2:EP is 100x harder than Revelations: Persona.

[Jared H.]

exactly. Although I would say P2:EP is 100x harder than Revelations: Persona.

Persona II was one mother^&$#$er of a game, and just as hard as you say.

I mean, Nyarlathotep as a boss?!:eek:

"Contradictions, contradictions!"

[Shellhead]

I still haven't beat the final boss in Vampire: Bloodlines. Most opponents in that game, you kill'em and you're done. This guy, as soon as you "kill" him, shapeshifts into some kind of flying form, grabs you and flies through a wall. Now you're fighting a flying opponent on a rooftop just before sunrise. Since the first fight usually leaves my character nearly dead and my mousehand tired, the second fight rapidly ends in my character getting killed.

[Fish Sauce]

Really? This is my favorite 8-bit Zelda game. I've played through that game about 5 times. One time playing the xp version without losing any lifes, getting the special ending. This for me was the most well crafted Zelda game I've ever played. The Oracle of Seasons is the one I could'nt complete.

Oh, it was a fantastic game, just parts of it would make me go absolutely insane.

I did manage to finish Oracle of Seasons though. Not sure if I ended up resorting to a guide at all or not though.

[P-Man]

Oh, and speaking of, Dragon Warrior 1.

Hell yeah. The author of this thread wanted to know about games that were difficult beyond just leveling up. Well this game wasn't "just" leveling up, because leveling up is about all you did. For every half hour of enjoyable game time you'd have to spend four hours leveling up.

[PerfectBrak]

Anyone remember Landstalker, an action RPG released for Genesis?

I played it when I was 10 or so. Maybe it was just me, but I could barely get anywhere.

[Zelgadis]

Final Fantasy 7

[Black Atom]

The PS1 adventure RPG Alundra is probably one of the hardest games I've played period. Puzzles that've literally had me stumped for hours.

I can't think of any traditional RPGs that were all that difficult.

[Erebus]

Probably Dark Cloud. The monsters themselves weren't all that hard. It was just the fact that leveling up your weapons with gems and attachments and whatnot takes sooooo damn long and by the time you get it to the next evolution, you've found a better weapon, and then you have to synth the old weapon to the new one, and then the process starts all over again.

[thehod]

I finished the first Eye of the Beholder fairly easily, but the second one was really challenging.

As was Dungeon Master, but Return of Chaos did for me about half way through, and I've never really gone back to it.

FF7 & 8 were not too bad, just very very long.

FF10 just got really, really boring.

I still can't do the last dungeon on Zelda Link to the Past.

[wingsofdamnation]

the first untold legends for psp. it wasnt hard at all but the game dragged on and on and on till no end. after about 20 hours of gameplay i defeated the main baddy then thought i beat the game but they sent me on a dozen more missions and i find out he gained back power and had to beat him a second time. this time i was positive i had beaten the game but nope more missions. i gave up cause i just didnt care anymore.

[Young Avenger]

Kingdom Hearts: Chains of Memories. I still can't beat that game. Riku at the 12th floor of the castle is insanely cheap.

I still haven't beat Panthom Brave.

[K.O.V.G]

Ninja Gaiden in hard mode and also Shinobi in Insane mode both very challenging but fun

[Copper]

I still haven't beat the final boss in Vampire: Bloodlines. Most opponents in that game, you kill'em and you're done. This guy, as soon as you "kill" him, shapeshifts into some kind of flying form, grabs you and flies through a wall. Now you're fighting a flying opponent on a rooftop just before sunrise. Since the first fight usually leaves my character nearly dead and my mousehand tired, the second fight rapidly ends in my character getting killed.

This might take another thread, but did you do all the sidequests? There's an item that you get from the vampire in the hospital that lets you replenish your blood supply when you get in trouble.

[titanfan]

Ninja Gaiden in hard mode

Was there another Ninja Gaiden after the Nintendo version? The Ninja Gaiden I remember was a standard beat 'em up type fighting game that didn't have much (if any) RPG elements at all...I was a big fan of the original, so if there an RPG version that came out, I would totally play it...

[TheDarkestHorse]

In Parasite Eve 2 you have the two huge Boss battles back to back at the end, with no opportunity to go back and level up or buy more items. But that was kind of an action game, really.

I never completed FF8 because I could never find the white ship that is (SUPPOSEDLY)floating around somewhere. Several different online guides and my brother all told me it's in different places, and I looked in them all, to no avail.

[standupguy]

My problem was that I was great with strategy and I tended to beat bosses way under the level I needed to be. Every boss battle took 2 hours and I would barely skate by, but I would win. I remember the first RPG I played was the classic and an all time favortie, Chrono Trigger. I went to fight Lavos without doing the side missions, and I beat his first stage. Then out of nowhere here goes this other monster I had to fight. So the next time I got to his second stage I lost two guys but I had a system where Lavos would heal my last guy, Frog I think, with a fire attack. I beat that part and started celebrating....only to find out there was a third stage. I got wiped out.

As far as really hard games go....the first Xenogears wasn't a picnic, trying to manage that fuel and still get off good attacks.