Coming in March: Grifter & Midnighter

[DWEarhart]

Found this over here. (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/mar07/solicitations.html)

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/mar07/GFTR_MNTR_Cv1_solicit.jpg

It's a six issue mini-series written by Chuck Dixon with art by Ryan Benjamin and Saleem Crawford.

This has potential to be killer. This further urges my claim that Dixon needs to write a Red Hood/Nightwing mini-series.

[diablo7]

wow benjamins stuff looks really good...best i've seen him do...i might pick this up if the inside looks as good ..

[Stellar]

Dixon was responsible for Team 7 so he knows Grifter's past better than anyone else. And Benjamin's art is indeed looking better than ever. I doubt this book could possibly go bad.

Bring it on.

[Jeff F]

My God, I want that framed.

Dixon is always a good read. Sounds like fun.

[rilokyle]

That art looks really nice- I'll definitely check it out.

[the film freak]

Chuck Dixon?

Is Midnighter going to be straight in this one?

[Mia]

Chuck Dixon?

Is Midnighter going to be straight in this one?

Probably just won't be mentioned that Midi's gay. So don't expect any sort of double entendre's between the two. Chuck's a pretty classy guy so I don't expect to see him sink to snide remarks or stuff like that. It'll be nice to just see Midi be portrayed as Mr. Kick @$$ for a change.

Have these two ever been together in a mini series before? It'll be interesting to see how they get along. Both of them being Alpha males. I'm going to tell my dealer to pull it.

[DWEarhart]

Probably just won't be mentioned that Midi's gay. So don't expect any sort of double entendre's between the two. Chuck's a pretty classy guy so I don't expect to see him sink to snide remarks or stuff like that. It'll be nice to just see Midi be portrayed as Mr. Kick @$$ for a change.

Have these two ever been together in a mini series before? It'll be interesting to see how they get along. Both of them being Alpha males. I'm going to tell my dealer to pull it.


Appollo and Midnighter's sexual preferences were never that big a deal, in fact Ellis rarely touched on their lifestyle. Millar flicked it around a bit, but I stopped reading Authority and all Authority related material once Millar and Quitely's run ended, so I don't know how they've been treated since.

I'm not sure if Grifter and Midnighter have ever encountered one another before. I'm sure the opportunity presented itself during the Coup de' Tat storylline, but as above, I never read it. This book however, I will be making room for on my pull list.

[Mia]

Appollo and Midnighter's sexual preferences were never that big a deal, in fact Ellis rarely touched on their lifestyle. Millar flicked it around a bit, but I stopped reading Authority and all Authority related material once Millar and Quitely's run ended, so I don't know how they've been treated since. .

Exactly. I loved the way that Ellis treated their relationship. It was 'there' but we weren't hit over the head with it on every page. I expect that's what Dixon will do the same. I wasn't too crazy about how Mark Millar treated their relationship. I found it much of it in poor taste. Whatever the case, I just hope to see my hero back as a hero not a as political statement or a punchline.

[Joe Rice]

This could have been fun, but Dixon--not without skill, mind you--is like anti-fun. Put fun and Dixon in a room and they eradicate each other.

[Sparda]

I just became a fan of Midnighter thanks to his relaunch title. I barely know anything about Grifter though. Hope this mini get's me to become a fan if he's really cool.

[DWEarhart]

I just became a fan of Midnighter thanks to his relaunch title. I barely know anything about Grifter though. Hope this mini get's me to become a fan if he's really cool.

You can check out the Point Blank mini-series by Ed Brubaker and Colin Wilson. It's a lead in to Brubaker's and Sean Phillips' Sleeper series

Also Dixon has a couple of Team 7 mini's with Grifter involved.

Wildcatx 3.0 is very good.


Exactly. I loved the way that Ellis treated their relationship. It was 'there' but we weren't hit over the head with it on every page. I expect that's what Dixon will do the same. I wasn't too crazy about how Mark Millar treated their relationship. I found it much of it in poor taste. Whatever the case, I just hope to see my hero back as a hero not a as political statement or a punchline.

Dixon is all about action not statements. He'll do fine without it. Garth Ennis, I'm pretty sure at some point he'll focus on it, but I think he'll do it in an oblique, wickedly meaningful sort of way, but if any flack were to come from somewhere, it would be from Ennis' book, I fear.

[Stellar]

I'm not sure if Grifter and Midnighter have ever encountered one another before.

They've hated each other ever since The Authority took over the US. You should see what 'Nighter and Apollo did to him in the Captain Atom: Armageddon mini.

[Mia]

They've hated each other ever since The Authority took over the US. You should see what 'Nighter and Apollo did to him in the Captain Atom: Armageddon mini.


Oh? And what was that?

[Stellar]

You want me to tell you (with spoiler tags of course) or would you rather read the comic? I wouldn't want to ruin your fun.

[Stony]

This could have been fun, but Dixon--not without skill, mind you--is like anti-fun. Put fun and Dixon in a room and they eradicate each other.

Oh I disagree, I thought TEAM ZERO and, at least the first series of TEAM 7 was a lot of fun.

Good old-fashioned war stories with tough guys... without the angst of Ennis.

[Subotai]

Should be great. Dixon's not the deepest writer, but he's done some terrific stuff, and I see this as sort of a riff on a Deadpool/Punisher team-up.

[nihil_domini]

They've hated each other ever since The Authority took over the US. You should see what 'Nighter and Apollo did to him in the Captain Atom: Armageddon mini.

I'm not entirely sure that mini counts. It retconned itself.:D

But they did meet in Point Blank. In a perfunctory manner sure, but it did happen.

As far as this book goes I really couldn't have cared less until I read the Chuck Dixon's name. As far as I'm concerned, Chuck defined who Cole was in a more meaningful manner than anyone who has written him in a book since.

[frimfram]

I'm not entirely sure that mini counts. It retconned itself.:D

Please god let that mini not count any more. It was a horribly disappointing version of the Authority.

And Apollo looked like a My Little Pony in it.

Do you reckon any of the WSU titles will have explained what the hell this Worldstorm business is all about, and in what senses the universe has been reset, by the time this comes out?

[eggie]

I thought the cover was gorgeous and I have always enjoyed reading Chuck Dixon books and the fact that this books contains Grifter and Midnighter...sold! :)

[Stellar]

Do you reckon any of the WSU titles will have explained what the hell this Worldstorm business is all about, and in what senses the universe has been reset, by the time this comes out?

I hope so. I'd like to know how come Winter and the others were still alive. But the biggest thing that bothers me is what's happening in Gen 13. For everybody else in WSU, years have gone by but the kids are still the same age they were at the beginning of Gen 13. And Lynch a merc? My god...

[Strannik]

Now now, Stellar, the new Gen13 could still turn out to be clones. I mean, there is nothing to rule out the existence of the originals per se...yet.

As for the subject at hand, I am intrigued by the series. Chuck Dixon is a good writer who wrote a pretty good Cole Cash in Team 7 minis. As for the subject of Midnighter's sexuality, I am sure Mr Dixon knew what he was getting into when he agreed to this this mini, so hopefully,that won't be much of an issue.

Oh, and the cover is gorgeous.

[Hellstormer]

Wow my favorite Wildstorm/Image character and a character I recently got into. This should be awesome:D When's it coming out and how many issues?

[Stellar]

I LOVED Team 7. Dixon really gives you the impression he was in the army, with all that good writing. And every member was uniquely portrayed, every one of them. I can't wait to see what he cooks up for Midnighter and Grifter.

[DWEarhart]

I never read Chuck Dixon's Iron Ghost from Image. I've always allowed it to fester in the back of my mind, wondering how it was. Seems like rich pulp fun.

It's unique that the world is in jeapordy, and it's only Grifter and Midnighter - - but when you think about it, the entire Wildstorm Universe is usually trying to save more than just Earth, or even their own universe, usually three or four in the mix.

[DaveEB]

Iron Ghost was great. Chuck Dixon + War = good comics in my opinion. Hopefully this'll be good comics too.

[hex111]

that cover definately has a Dustin Nguyen circa Wildcats Version 3.0 flavor to it... and I'm definately digging it

[Stellar]

Yeah, but I've always thought Ryan's art to be a lot less cartoonish than Ngyen's.

[hex111]

eh, I guess it depends on the project... for instance... I definately noticed a little bit of a cartoonish aspect in his Jet mini... but his promo pieces and cover work for Wildcats: Version 3.0 were totally different... they had a very Travis Charest feel to them... his interiors were a bit more like the Jet mini, but the promo pieces and the covers (especially the credits page) in 3.0 were completely different

[the film freak]

that cover definately has a Dustin Nguyen circa Wildcats Version 3.0 flavor to it... and I'm definately digging it

I don't know. I see more Travis Charest. But then again Nguyen was doing a Charest look in Wildcats. But Benjamim was starting drawing more like Charest in the late nineties (they even drew a Kingdom Come style cover for Shattered Image #2). There seems to be a lot of guys aping that Charest style like Steve McNiven and Jim Cheung. Not that it's a bad thing. But it'd be nice to see Charest come back.

[DaveEB]

Yeah, Benjamin was one of the first guys to be really influenced by Charest...you could see it a bit in his Phantom Guard stuff as well. Nguyen came much later with more of a tribute to Charest's work on Wildcats than anything else. Nguyen's stuff outside of Wildcats really hasn't been all that much influenced by Charest...at least in my eyes...his Authority, Manifest Eternity...I can see other influences in those works but not really noticeable Charest influence.

[Stellar]

I can see the Charest connection, but Benjamin uses a lot less crosshatching. Still, his style is incredibly detailed and the only reason I picked up a few issues of Cable. The coloring is probably not going to look anything like the cover, but I hope it's still superb.

[DWEarhart]

Go here (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Dec06/previews/12-16/12-16Previews.html) to see interior artwork from the first issue. Personally, I think it's really good stuff, with one objection, but, please, take a look.

These two were my favorite.
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Dec06/previews/12-16/Picture23.jpg

This one mostly for the last panel, but I like the shadows over the faces in the fourth one.
http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Dec06/previews/12-16/Picture25.jpg

[Mia]

To quote the Taco Bell Dog.....

"I think I'm in love!"

Will I get banned if I admit that I wish the Midnighter was straight? :o . Really this looks ten times more promising and better than what Ennis is putting out.

[DWEarhart]

I would lick rocks if the first page was made into a poster.

[Mia]

By the way am I the only person who get's the irony in the title 'Uncivil Union'? That Chuck!

[Subotai]

The real irony is that works much better if Midnighter isn't straight.

[DWEarhart]

But that's just it. We don't know if Dixon is going to make a big deal out of it, and like I stated previously, Midnighter flows much smoother because his sexual preference is not a major issue because it doesn't have to be one -- Ellis did a great job of it.

[Mia]

I read on his web site that Chuck will be doing an interview on the mini.

[hex111]

I think I'm going to try to buy the pencils of that splash page with Midnighter... I'll be back later

[Stellar]

Daaaaaayum. Benjamin's art looks fantastic. It's got that kind of Jim Lee touch, but there's enough difference in it to not look like Jime Lee rip off style. I like the kind of manga style he used for the Manila shots.

Damn, this is going to be one hell of a title.

[DWEarhart]

I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying it, but it could be argued - is Chuck Dixon homphobic? (http://lorenjavier.com/adventuresofagaygeek/?p=485)


“I don’t want to expect to be able to shield my kids from the subject of homosexuality as the media seems intent on bringing into my home and nothing short of cutting the electricity and boarding the windows will stop it. But I DON’T want my kids reading about it in comics.” - Chuck Dixon

[DaveEB]

I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying it, but it could be argued - is Chuck Dixon homphobic? (http://lorenjavier.com/adventuresofagaygeek/?p=485)

I don't see why I should care if he is.

[Mia]

I wouldn't go to the extreme of saying it, but it could be argued - is Chuck Dixon homphobic? (http://lorenjavier.com/adventuresofagaygeek/?p=485)


Sorry, I'm not going to take the word of a small blurb without knowing the context that it was said in. I've seen too many people misquoted. I don't know about Grant Morrison, but Judd Winnick's take on the gay story in the GL was really heavy handed and condescending. The writer in that article hasn't a clue what they are talking about. S/he says Batman's sexual orientation is brought up constantly. When that is not the case at all. I think that with the exception of one issue of Winnick's run was it mentioned that Bruce dated women. And I would say the same thing about Jerry Robinson's run as well. I think that I can count on one hand the amount of writers who have delved into Bruce/Batman affairs with women. Most of the Batman stories have consisted of him kicking behind and solving crimes. I don't think that not focusing on the fact that Midnighter likes having sex with men, is a sign of being homophobic.



The word homophobe and homophobic is thrown around way too much. And I think that if Chuck were homophobic. I hardly think he would want to write about a gay superhero now would he?

I'll wait until I read his interview. But I'm guessing that he simply won't make a big deal about Midi's orientation. Much the same way that Ellis did when he originally wrote about him. Looks like we are finally going to see a story about Midnighter being a superhero who defends the weak.

[Subotai]

Yeah, finally! Never seen that before.

[Subotai]

As for Dixon, I very much like his work on PWJ and Nightwing and will give him a shot here.

[Apathy Boy]

Regardless of his political leanings are, Dixon's a pro. He was able to write Batman for several years without turning him into a card-carrying member of the NRA. I expect he'll show the same level of respect for the character of the Midnighter.

And that artwork is indeed lovely.

[DWEarhart]

Is it March yet?

I'm trying not to build up too much excitement for this book, seeing as how it's so far away, but damn, I just can't wait.

[Dazzler]

No, thanks. Chuck Dixon is an idiot. I didn't even by the Connor Hawk issue because he wrote it.

What a waste.
I hate that conservative, ignorant, "They're coming to get you Barbara" attitude. Yeah, whatever.

--Dazz

[DWEarhart]

Chuck Dixon grants Newsarama an interview about the mini-series and other things. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=96409)

Plus, the cover to issue #2.

http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/mar07/GrifterMidnighter_02.jpg

[Mia]

No, thanks. Chuck Dixon is an idiot. I didn't even by the Connor Hawk issue because he wrote it.

What a waste.
I hate that conservative, ignorant, "They're coming to get you Barbara" attitude. Yeah, whatever.

--Dazz


Yes I agree with you. Chuck Dixon is just awful. If it wasn't for Dixon and Bendis. I'd be able to enjoy the hack writing that's permeating the industry.

Yeah whatever.

[Mia]

Chuck Dixon grants Newsarama an interview about the mini-series and other things. (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=96409)

Hey thanks for posting. Chuck is always a delight to read. I found it funny that he thinks that Midi represents liberal rage. Never saw him as a lefty before. But then again I never really read the Authority that closely.

[DWEarhart]

Hey thanks for posting. Chuck is always a delight to read. I found it funny that he thinks that Midi represents liberal rage. Never saw him as a lefty before. But then again I never really read the Authority that closely.

Only after Ellis and Hitch took off did the underlying views begin to appear.

I'm not expecting anything mind-bending about this series, just some good ole kick ass action and fun. I like that Chuck is going old school.

Sigh. Two more months.

[Mia]

Only after Ellis and Hitch took off did the underlying views begin to appear.

You know I was reading my old SW TPB the other day and I saw that what Ellis did with A&M really wasn't that extrodinary. He just took the basic buddy/brother relationship and turned it on it's on head, by making them lovers instead. That's all there was to it. It was with the later writers that who turned it into a big deal.



I'm not expecting anything mind-bending about this series, just some good ole kick ass action and fun. I like that Chuck is going old school.




I agree with you. I love Chuck but he isn't Chaucer. I figured that's what the story would be about the momment I heard about. Just two tough old soldiers trying to prove who is the biggest s.o.b in the room, and they'll probably team up to take down some baddies while trying not to kill each other in the process. It's what Chuck does.

I really didn't get what the interviewer was going on about Midi's homosexuality and Chuck's views. But I guess it was done to sooth the ruffled feathers of the 'Perpetually Offended'.

The thing I love about Chuck is that he is just a comic book writer. He writes about comic characters. He does not use the books to preach or potificate his views. I really wish that other writers would follow this path.

[DWEarhart]

You know I was reading my old SW TPB the other day and I saw that what Ellis did with A&M really wasn't that extrodinary. He just took the basic buddy/brother relationship and turned it on it's on head, by making them lovers instead. That's all there was to it. It was with the later writers that who turned it into a big deal.




I agree with you. I love Chuck but he isn't Chaucer. I figured that's what the story would be about the momment I heard about. Just two tough old soldiers trying to prove who is the biggest s.o.b in the room, and they'll probably team up to take down some baddies while trying not to kill each other in the process. It's what Chuck does.

I really didn't get what the interviewer was going on about Midi's homosexuality and Chuck's views. But I guess it was done to sooth the ruffled feathers of the 'Perpetually Offended'.

The thing I love about Chuck is that he is just a comic book writer. He writes about comic characters. He does not use the books to preach or potificate his views. I really wish that other writers would follow this path.

Yup. What he writes he writes for the good of the character, not himself.

He's a professional, he gets his work in on time, and he's just plain consistent. I remember a time when that was all anybody ever asked for from a contracted worker. Cest la vie.

[Hellstormer]

Yup. What he writes he writes for the good of the character, not himself.

He's a professional, he gets his work in on time, and he's just plain consistent. I remember a time when that was all anybody ever asked for from a contracted worker. Cest la vie.
And he doesn't take 4 issues to write about a car trip form point A to point B

[Subotai]

The best way to describe his personality is that he embodies left wing rage.


That said, Midnighter wears his politics on his sleeve. By “liberal wish fulfillment” I mean that he does what a good liberal could never do but probably wishes he could. Midnighter embodies the rage and fury I see coming from the anti-Bush crowd. There’s no denying this. No one who’s written him this way would try and distant themselves from that description any more than I would deny the Punisher serving the same purpose on the opposite of the scale.

Well, I wish the series well, and hopefully he'll be able to keep his own bias out of it, but Dixon comes off as a dick here. Talk about wearing your politics on your sleeve, Chuck. If anything, Midnighter's rage comes from belonging to one of the last few groups it's OK to hate.

[eggie]

I loved Dixon's work on Nightwing (after he left the series went downhill) so I'll be checking this out for sure. Aside from Dixon, seeing Benjamin draw Cole again has me really excited...I mean the covers to issues 1 & 2 are gorgeous. I have been a huge Grifter fan since WildC.A.T.s #1 and have always dreamed of seeing him and Midnighter work together so this is like a dream come true. Heck, this series will probably ship more issues in 2007 than Wildcats will so I have to get my Grifter fix somehow...I wish Jim would quit All-Star B&R and devote all his attention to Wildcats so that we can get the series out bi-monthly at least.

[Stellar]

Team 7 should be more than enough to prove Dixon's the right person for any book starring Grifter or any other member of Team 7, for that matter. The writing in this book is guaranteed to be good.

[Mia]

Well, I wish the series well, and hopefully he'll be able to keep his own bias out of it, but Dixon comes off as a dick here. Talk about wearing your politics on your sleeve, Chuck. If anything, Midnighter's rage comes from belonging to one of the last few groups it's OK to hate.

Why are you calling Dixon a 'dick'?

[Subotai]

I didn't say he was a dick, I said he comes off as a dick because of his comments.

We'll do him a favour and skip the whole bit in regards to the brouhaha over Rawhide Kid, GL, etc.

For one thing, Dixon's selective and incorrect in what he says.


There are scenes in his own book and in Authority where he’s seen murdering right wing caricatures.

First of all, both Ellis and Millar had Midnighter knocking off right-wing characters, especially during the Authority low-point 'Transfer of Power' under Millar. But they also depicted him knocking off third-world tyrants and alien scum. So how does that translate into "liberal wish fulfillment"? Just because he kills bad people who may happen to hold a role in government, any government? Conversely, does that not mean Dixon's Punisher was mere "conservative wish fulfillment"? And why does Dixon focus merely on Midnighter, and not describe the other members of the Authority the same? He writes that "[Midnighter] also seems very frustrated with social injustice." Again, so is the rest of the Authority.

It's interesting (and sad) in the interview that Dixon says the best way to describe Midnighter's personality as 'the embodyment of left-wing rage.' That's a vast oversimplification, really an insult to the character and to those three writers who have worked on Midnighter before. Would he describe the Punisher as the embodyment of right-wing rage? Batman?

As well, Dixon says Midnighter has murdered 'right-wing caricatures' in his own title. Now, as of the most recent issue anyhow, Midnighter has not killed anyone besides Afghani tankmen and WWI German infantry. Could be wrong, but I don't think any panels slipped past where Midnighter buried a shruiken in the thorax of a politician who resembled Dick Cheney or crushed the larynx of a talk-show host who resembled Rush Limbaugh. Ennis has pretty much steered completely clear of politics in this title thus far. Read the book, Chuck.

Garth Ennis said it best: "If Brokeback Mountain proved one thing, it's this: Gay characters piss off all the right people."

It's a shame Dixon may be one of those people.

But he is an old pro, and I'm hopeful his telling of G&M will, um, 'sooth the ruffled feathers of the 'Perpetually Offended.':)

BTW, I think it would be awesome to see Midnighter reading National Review. I'm sure he reads the Economist.

[Mia]

I didn't say he was a dick, I said he comes off as a dick because of his comments..

Semantics. Still does not negate the fact that you've chosen to make a disparaging comments about an author when you simply could have said is
is 'I think he's wrong in saying....' or 'I disagree...' Shows a clear prejudice on your part.





We'll do him a favour and skip the whole bit in regards to the brouhaha over Rawhide Kid, GL, etc.

For one thing, Dixon's selective and incorrect in what he says.


There are scenes in his own book and in Authority where he’s seen murdering right wing caricatures.




First of all, both Ellis and Millar had Midnighter knocking off right-wing characters, especially during the Authority low-point 'Transfer of Power' under Millar. But they also depicted him knocking off third-world tyrants and alien scum. So how does that translate into "liberal wish fulfillment"? Just because he kills bad people who may happen to hold a role in government, any government? Conversely, does that not mean Dixon's Punisher was mere "conservative wish fulfillment"?


But how is Dixon incorrect when he says, that there are scenes in Midi's own book as well as the Authority where he is seen murdering right wing caricatures. When you yourself actually say the same thing? That The Midnighter has killed rightwing caricatures. Chuck said that Midi has killed right wing caricatures. He did not say that Midi only killed to right wing caricatures.







And why does Dixon focus merely on Midnighter, and not describe the other members of the Authority the same? He writes that "[Midnighter] also seems very frustrated with social injustice." Again, so is the rest of the Authority.


Because question he was asked was in relation to the Midnighter--a character he will be writing. Not the rest of the Authority team. Makes sense to me.



It's interesting (and sad) in the interview that Dixon says the best way to describe Midnighter's personality as 'the embodyment of left-wing rage.' That's a vast oversimplification, really an insult to the character and to those three writers who have worked on Midnighter before.


And how is that an oversimplification and an insult?




Would he describe the Punisher as the embodyment of right-wing rage? Batman?

No. For one thing The Midnigters actions (through the Authority) is political.
The Authority have always been a quasi political organisation who have in one way or the other involved themselves in world or inter stellar affairs. Whereas you you would not say that about Batman or the Punnisher. Whose main actions are to go after crooks and or protect the innocent.





As well, Dixon says Midnighter has murdered 'right-wing caricatures' in his own title. Now, as of the most recent issue anyhow, Midnighter has not killed anyone besides Afghani tankmen and WWI German infantry. Could be wrong, but I don't think any panels slipped past where Midnighter buried a shruiken in the thorax of a politician who resembled Dick Cheney or crushed the larynx of a talk-show host who resembled Rush Limbaugh. Ennis has pretty much steered completely clear of politics in this title thus far. Read the book, Chuck..


You do realise that the Afghani Tankmen (presumably under the guise of a fundamentalist Islamist goverment) and the German Tankman (that's WWII not WWI by the way) both belong to and are reprsentative of far rightwing and fascist organisations. Both which underline and represent right wing elements.



Garth Ennis said it best: "If Brokeback Mountain proved one thing, it's this: Gay characters piss off all the right people."

It's a shame Dixon may be one of those people.


If he were 'one of those people'. Then why on earth would he be writing about a gay character. Do you think that if he was that 'pissed off' like you want to claim he'd bother in the first place?





But he is an old pro, and I'm hopeful his telling of G&M will, um, 'sooth the ruffled feathers of the 'Perpetually Offended.':)



Respectfully I don't think that anything will 'sooth' your feathers. When you've gone to great lengths to mis-quote and twist words. It's as if you deliberatly look for things to annoy you.

[Subotai]

Semantics. Still does not negate the fact that you've chosen to make a disparaging comments about an author when you simply could have said is 'I think he's wrong in saying....' or 'I disagree...' Shows a clear prejudice on your part.

No. A prejudice is when you make a pre-judgement on a person without evidence. Here, Dixon's comments in the interviews were the evidence. If I assumed he said something, or formed an ill opinion without actually reading the interview, that would be evidence I was prejudiced.

I've said I've liked most of Dixon's past work. I own all of Alien Legion and much of his Punisher. I'd have given my right arm to have had him stay on Nightwing instead of handing it off to he-who-shall-not-be-named. Guys like me help him make his mortgage payments. That's why it was disappointing to hear him make those comments.



But how is Dixon incorrect when he says, that there are scenes in Midi's own book as well as the Authority where he is seen murdering right wing caricatures. When you yourself actually say the same thing? That The Midnighter has killed rightwing caricatures. Chuck said that Midi has killed right wing caricatures. He did not say that Midi only killed to right wing caricatures.

But those were the only actions he referenced when defining Midnighter's character. He didn't talk about how Midnighter killed Kaizen Gamorra, or how he tried to fight off 'God's' spawn from invading Japan, or broke up a child-slavery ring, or took a brutal beating while trying to trying to defeat Regis, or any of his other efforts.



Because question he was asked was in relation to the Midnighter--a character he will be writing. Not the rest of the Authority team. Makes sense to me.

Maybe, maybe not. If that's the case he would've done better by referencing the entire team, instead of aiming only at Midnighter.



No. For one thing The Midnigters actions (through the Authority) is political.
The Authority have always been a quasi political organisation who have in one way or the other involved themselves in world or inter stellar affairs. Whereas you you would not say that about Batman or the Punnisher. Whose main actions are to go after crooks and or protect the innocent.

Midnighter's main actions aren't protect the innocent? That's just about all he does! And last time I checked, Batman was plenty involved in world affairs.

But that's really neither here nor there. Liberalism doesn't define itself by world-scale events. Again, many of the Midnighter's actions have been non-political. Heaven forbid we define Midnighter by his tenacity or his bravery. Dixon himself says Midnighter is concerned with social justice, although perhaps less kindly than I'd like.

I would like to hear his take on Ennis' Punisher, though. Heh heh.



You do realise that the Afghani Tankmen (presumably under the guise of a fundamentalist Islamist goverment) and the German Tankman (that's WWII not WWI by the way) both belong to and are reprsentative of far rightwing and fascist organisations. Both which underline and represent right wing elements.

Sorry, but that is incorrect.

The tankmen were working with NATO forces, alongside the Americans, Canadians, etc. They were using the tanks to settle old tribal scores. More realistic than some people would like to admit, but not exactly 'right-wing caricatures'. Hell, Midnighter even lets some of 'em go.

And it is WWI, not WWII. Midnighter is plunked right in the middle of a trench battle between the French and Bavarian armies.

In any case, neither one involves the 'right-wing caricature' which Dixon mentions. If he is going to accuse Midnighter of being a murderer, it would be nice if he could choose the correct examples. Midnighter is a killer, by definition - in the same way a marine is, or the Punisher. To call him a murderer unnecessarily is to slander him. Again, read the book, Chuck!



If he were 'one of those people'. Then why on earth would he be writing about a gay character. Do you think that if he was that 'pissed off' like you want to claim he'd bother in the first place?


From Dixon's own words, it's pretty clear that he does have issues with certain people. It's to his credit that he has been able to keep a paper bag over his politics when writing past characters like Batman ('anti-gun screed'-heh), Green Arrow, or the like. Again, hopefully this will be the same case. Midnighter is a kick-ass character.



Respectfully I don't think that anything will 'sooth' your feathers. When you've gone to great lengths to mis-quote and twist words. It's as if you deliberatly look for things to annoy you.

Well...Yeah, I saw things that annoyed or interested me and responded to them. That's what MB most are.

First of all, Mia, may I say that IIRC this is one of a few disagreements we've had on the topic of Midnighter/The Authority. While we always seem to wind up differing on the topic, things have always been civil, and my hat's off to you. Hopefully things will continue this way in the future.

That said, looks like we're bound to wind up on opposite sides yet again. All of my quotations were drawn directly from the article; if those quotations are false, then I may have mis-quoted. I note that the interviewer, who clearly did some preparation for the job of interviewing Dixon, winds up in a similar bind with Dixon making efforts to make himself understood. So be it. This is a topic of some weight and should be hashed out.

Last summer I read a book by Max Freeman, 'Bloody Sundays.' In one chapter he discusses at length the absence of gays in pro sports, and football in particular. As he astutely notes, 'gays are the last people it is alright to hate.' The role of Midnighter in comics crossed my mind more than once while reading the book. Comics are, I'm proud to say, years ahead of the NFL, MLB, et cetera. We've crossed that line. We have popular heroes of either sexuality, no small achievement.

In the meantime, though, having a gay character in a current comic without directly addressing their sexuality is like having a person of colour in a 1950s film without addressing the topic of race - and by addressing I do not mean discuss at length. It should be clear, though, that they are treated by a different set of rules. Otherwise it's a dodge, a wash, and all the people involved deserve better.

[Mia]

No. A prejudice is when you make a pre-judgement on a person without evidence. Here, Dixon's comments in the interviews were the evidence. If I assumed he said something, or formed an ill opinion without actually reading the interview, that would be evidence I was prejudiced. .

The word predudice also means '. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable. ' Which was what you were essentially displaying when you implied that Chuck Dixon was a 'dick.' If you did not like what he said all you had to do was state that outright. Instead of resorting to underhanded insults.




I've said I've liked most of Dixon's past work. I own all of Alien Legion and much of his Punisher. I'd have given my right arm to have had him stay on Nightwing instead of handing it off to he-who-shall-not-be-named. Guys like me help him make his mortgage payments. That's why it was disappointing to hear him make those comments..

What? Just because you buy his books that means that he should be circumventing his opinions and beliefs to make you happy? Chuck Dixon's job is to produce a good and engaging story. Beyond that he has no other duty to his readers. And to suggest that he does smacks of arrogance and creepy fan entitlement.




But those were the only actions he referenced when defining Midnighter's character. He didn't talk about how Midnighter killed Kaizen Gamorra, or how he tried to fight off 'God's' spawn from invading Japan, or broke up a child-slavery ring, or took a brutal beating while trying to trying to defeat Regis, or any of his other efforts. ..

So? Did you expect him to do a complete and thorough run down on Midnighters' history? Like I said in my previous post Chuck said that Midi has killed right wing caricatures. He did not say that Midi only killed to right wing caricatures.





Maybe, maybe not. If that's the case he would've done better by referencing the entire team, instead of aiming only at Midnighter. ..

Like I said above the interview was on The Midnighter, so he answered questions in regards to that character .




Midnighter's main actions aren't protect the innocent? That's just about all he does! And last time I checked, Batman was plenty involved in world affairs...

Sure Midnighter's actions are to protect the innocent. But it's always been in the guise of being involved in world politics or interstellar affairs. Here are run downs of several Authrority arcs.




The Circle (The Authority #1-4)


The Authority make their first public appearance to stop Kaizen Gamorra, an old enemy of Stormwatch, who wants to take advantage of Stormwatch's breakup to take revenge upon the world. To do this he uses engineered supersoldiers to destroy first Moscow and then part of London. The Authority manage to stop the attack on London, then predict the third and final attack in Los Angeles in time to avert it. Midnighter uses the Carrier to destroy the superhuman clone factory on Gamorra's island.




[edit] The Outer Dark (#9-12)

During the closing days of 1999, strange alien creatures begin building unknown structures in Africa and on the Moon. This prompts the previous Doctors to reveal to the current Doctor a vital secret: the original creators of Earth, the closest things to the concept of "God" that exist, have returned from a grand tour of the universe to find humanity as an unwanted infestation in their "retirement home". They are terraforming Earth to be habitable for them (and uninhabitable for humans) in time for the arrival of their ship, which is a pyramid-shaped vessel the size of the Moon.

The Nativity (#13-16)

Now under Jack Hawksmoor's leadership, the Authority try but fail to capture Jenny Quantum, the newborn Spirit of the Twenty-First Century, already proven to be more powerful than Sparks ever was. Instead, she is taken by a superhero-creating mastermind, Dr. Krigstein (based upon Jack Kirby), who wants Jenny so he can be able to shape the next century through her. There is a suggestion that team mate Apollo is raped during a battle with Krigstein's super-creep henchmen. It is also suggested that Midnighter returns the favour on the culprit with an industrial strength drill.

As the Authority is moving to be more pro-active in righting the world's wrongs, instead of attempting to defeat Krigstein's army of superheroes, they have Swift enter his invisible hangar in Manhattan and offer him a deal: he gets to put his imagination to work helping restructure the dictatorships the Authority topple, while they keep Jenny Quantum. He accepts.




I'm not going to post the rest of arc summeries. But they can be found on this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Authority). Most of these stories involve the Auhority being involved in world affairs or inter stellar politics. Sure Batman (and The Punisher) occassionally get's into stories that involve world politics. But that's not his main function. It's to protect Gotham City.






Sorry, but that is incorrect.

The tankmen were working with NATO forces, alongside the Americans, Canadians, etc. They were using the tanks to settle old tribal scores. More realistic than some people would like to admit, but not exactly 'right-wing caricatures'. Hell, Midnighter even lets some of 'em go.

And it is WWI, not WWII. Midnighter is plunked right in the middle of a trench battle between the French and Bavarian armies.

In any case, neither one involves the 'right-wing caricature' which Dixon mentions. If he is going to accuse Midnighter of being a murderer, it would be nice if he could choose the correct examples. Midnighter is a killer, by definition - in the same way a marine is, or the Punisher. To call him a murderer unnecessarily is to slander him. Again, read the book, Chuck!


Still does not negate the fact that those are still representatives of the right. Even if the Afghani tankman are working with Nato. They still are representatives of an Islamist government. And the #2 of the Midnighter is full of references to the Nazi's. Can't get any more stereotypical right wing than that now can you?





First of all, Mia, may I say that IIRC this is one of a few disagreements we've had on the topic of Midnighter/The Authority. While we always seem to wind up differing on the topic, things have always been civil, and my hat's off to you. Hopefully things will continue this way in the future..


Why shouldn't I be civil? To be otherwise would make me, to use your word a 'dick' wouldn't it? And I don't stoop to name calling. That's ignorant.



Last summer I read a book by Max Freeman, 'Bloody Sundays.' In one chapter he discusses at length the absence of gays in pro sports, and football in particular. As he astutely notes, 'gays are the last people it is alright to hate.' The role of Midnighter in comics crossed my mind more than once while reading the book. Comics are, I'm proud to say, years ahead of the NFL, MLB, et cetera. We've crossed that line. We have popular heroes of either sexuality, no small achievement..

I disagree. I think there are far more people in this world who it is alright to 'hate' than gays. Such as the disabled, overweight, poor people, immigrants, people of faith and the people with intellectual disabilities.





In the meantime, though, having a gay character in a current comic without directly addressing their sexuality is like having a person of colour in a 1950s film without addressing the topic of race - and by addressing I do not mean discuss at length. It should be clear, though, that they are treated by a different set of rules. Otherwise it's a dodge, a wash, and all the people involved deserve better.

Again, respectfully that's absolute nonsense. Not to go off on a tangent. But I have seen plenty of movies from the 1950's with a person of colour has not been addressed. The only time the colour issue is brought up is when the film had to do with an issue of colour. And I think that it should be the case with someone's sexuality. This story has been billed as a story involving a team up between Grifter and The Midnighter to fight a non human race. And that's what I want to read about, A story involving the Midnighter and Grifter (two of WS baddest mothers) kicking behind and taking down badies. Not a polemic on sexuality. If that's what you are looking for, then maybe you should go read something else. You know I really wish that the comic book companies would stop bowing down to neurotic and insecure fans who need affirmation and a pat on the head , and just stick to producing good and interesting stories. That's what I shell my hard earned money out for.

[nihil_domini]

I really didn't get what the interviewer was going on about Midi's homosexuality and Chuck's views. But I guess it was done to sooth the ruffled feathers of the 'Perpetually Offended'.

The thing I love about Chuck is that he is just a comic book writer. He writes about comic characters. He does not use the books to preach or potificate his views. I really wish that other writers would follow this path.

At the risk of no one getting an audio joke in a comic community.....

I love it when people talk about Midi's SysEx!

[DWEarhart]

In case you missed it,

the cover to Grifter and Midnighter #3.

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dccomics/200705/vert_ws/GTRMDN-Cv3_solicit.jpg

[DWEarhart]

Issue #1 is Out Today!!

[nihil_domini]

Issue #1 is Out Today!!

And it's awesome! Cole uses his powers!