MERGE: Black Panther and Storm to Have Children?

[Joe Zool]

From Joe Friday's:

AA: Black Panther and Storm are going to find a new home…and their family will grow.

There's only ONE way that sentence can be taken. One.


So, yeah.

[Sentinel K]

Well.... That sucks.

[DDM]

I'm not going to worry. Hudlin's Black Panther has too many conituity problems as it is. When Storm comes back to the X-Men, it will be discovered "Black Panther" is either a Skrull, a Space Phantom, or something else. Her children will be easily swept aside.

Storm, as a supporting character, is hurting her more than helping Black Panther. I think the fact Hudlin had to bring in Storm tells me his book is in trouble...

[RoguefanAM]

......Well, there goes our chances of Stormy coming back to the X-men anytime soon! :mad:

Darn you, Marvel! :p

[Joe Acro]

They might adopt...

[Tag06]

From Joe Friday's:



There's only ONE way that sentence can be taken. One.


So, yeah.

That's wonderful news, I've always wanted to see Storm have some children.

SCREAMS WITH JOY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mitsaso]

Aw, c'mon, "the family will grow" might just mean that the mother-in-law will move into the house....!:D

[Gene M.]

It could just mean that they'll become part of a larger group of heroes, like Cap's Avengers post Civil War.

[tunasammiches]

It might mean that Storm discovers a quintet of young girls and then realizes that they're actually somehow her daughters that were incubated in a secret project in The World, cloned from her skin cells.

[The Lucky One]

Maybe they can have a couple of fake children, like Wanda and the Vision. Then the kids can disappear, only to pop up a decade later on a new teen team.

-D

[fishtaco]

Well, I'm sure their children will make great villains some day. :rolleyes:

[Deus ex Chris]

There's only ONE way that sentence can be taken. One.
Actually, it could be taken several ways.
It could just mean that they'll become part of a larger group of heroes, like Cap's Avengers post Civil War.
This is the one I'm betting on, especially considering the Civil War Quiz that Wizard ran last spring.

[Young Avenger]

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays_Tom_Axel.html

Black Panther and Storm are going to find a new home…and their family will grow.

Knowing who's writing both of these character I fear for the worst.

[Expletive Deleted]

That strikes me as a phrase which could go in a literal direction, but could also go in a figurative one. Like the "Superman Family" or what have you.

So . . . let's keep the spaz-outs to a minimum.

[Joe Zool]

Eh, I'll take the "join heroes" over the "family way" anytime.

Then again, I'm not reading that book, so I guess igorance is indeed blissful.

Still, it's another thing that keeps her away from the X-Men. (I'd really love to see how Mike Carey would write her)

[Haunt]

Fantastic Four...

[Joe Zool]

It might mean that Storm discovers a quintet of young girls and then realizes that they're actually somehow her daughters that were incubated in a secret project in The World, cloned from her skin cells.

LOL.

That's almost sig-worthy.

[BeastieRunner]

. . . and the name of their first child is . . .

Black Lightning!

Oh nos! :eek::eek::eek: It's taken!

[Hi-Fi]

Could this Storm be a Nanny construct while the real Stormy is having fun with Yukio in Tokyo? :(

[shanejayell]

*Is unimpressed*

Tho I suspect BP will be retconned out of Storm's life eventually.

[dotdotdot]

if you didn't take that sentence to mean that storm and black panther are the new FF members then you need to reevaluate.

[Omega Alpha]

Well, I'm sure their children will make great villains some day. :rolleyes:

Only when they go to the future and come back as adults.


if you didn't take that sentence to mean that storm and black panther are the new FF members then you need to reevaluate.

I think that's it. Marvel is not a fan of babies.

[dellicious]

if you didn't take that sentence to mean that storm and black panther are the new FF members then you need to reevaluate.

i really hope its the other way around and she gets pregnant

i would love her storm to get pregnant in 'real' time and see how that effects her

its new and though i miss her, its much more than the x-books were doing with her

[Omega Alpha]

i really hope its the other way around and she gets pregnant

i would love her storm to get pregnant in 'real' time and see how that effects her

its new and though i miss her, its much more than the x-books were doing with her

You mean you prefer to see her pregnant of a marriage made to make money and continuing to be written by Hudlin, and Hudlin alone, in a low-selling book instead of joining Marvel's eldest team and being a bigger presence in the MU? :confused:

[BYC]

. . . and the name of their first child is . . .

Black Lightning!

Oh nos! :eek::eek::eek: It's taken!

They could always use Black Storm.

[Cayman]

From Joe Friday's:



There's only ONE way that sentence can be taken. One.


So, yeah.

I think it means they are joining the FF like Wizard suggested. I don't think that quiz they did has been wrong on any other points so far.

Babies are problematic because of Marvel Time.

[Davidai]

It could be

Storm Panther
Panther Storm
Storm Black

Besides what if they aren't supers? What if they are just them "norms"

[Joe Zool]

Ok, ok! I give! I take back my, er, puke.

I didn't know about the Wizard thing.

I admit it, I may have overreacted just a tad bit. :o

[Pro]

if you didn't take that sentence to mean that storm and black panther are the new FF members then you need to reevaluate.

That's the option that actually triggers a positive response from me. It would make the fantastic four a family of sorts again despite the originals being broken up. Storm and black panther alone just doesn't interest me, with child even less so.

[Hi-Fi]

Ok, ok! I give! I take back my, er, puke.

I didn't know about the Wizard thing.

I admit it, I may have overreacted just a tad bit. :o

You're eating your own vomit back?? That's disgusting!

[Expletive Deleted]

Black Kitten?

Doesn't really acknowledge Storm's contribution, but it'd be adorable.

[Cayman]

a Storm/BP kid in an alternate future storyline would be cool though.

[rilokyle]

BOOOOOOOO.

Why Marvel is pushing this relationship, I will never know.

[CMBMOOL]

Where Joe Q. hates the Spider Marriage, I will hate this one, and where Joe Q. nearly ruins Spidey's life this will ruin Storm's. :mad:

Although based upon that Quote it could easily mean that the "couple" will join in with the Fantastic four, and that will make me hate it more. :mad:

No offense to Duffie coming on, but until this couple breaks up I am off all Storm related titles. :mad:

[CMBMOOL]

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays_Tom_Axel.html



Knowing who's writing both of these character I fear for the worst.

I agree with you man. :(

[Beast]

I don't think they'll saddle Storm with a kid. They know how problematic that will be. But we know where they're both headed from teasers. Storm and Black Panther will be joining the Fantastic Four. Which also fits into the 'Their Family Will Grow' as they'll have Franklin and his sister to deal with as well. :)

[Beast]

Fantastic Four...
Exactly. There have been plenty of teases and outright leaks (from the same person who spoiled Clor months ago) that they'll be taking 2 members places of the Fantastic Four. And since the FF is a family team, that's what the tease means. Not to mention they'll also have Franklin and his sister to deal with as well. ;) :D

[Frodo-X]

So, I'm guessing Storm, Black Panther, Sue, and Johnny.

That sounds remarkably like something I don't wanna read.

[Beast]

So, I'm guessing Storm, Black Panther, Sue, and Johnny.

That sounds remarkably like something I don't wanna read.
That would make the most sense. But rumors seem to be saying Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Black Panther, and Storm. Either way, it doesn't sound interesting to me either. And I dread seeing the FF under Hudlin's pen.

[Frodo-X]

That would make the most sense. But rumors seem to be saying Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Black Panther, and Storm. Either way, it doesn't sound interesting to me either. And I dread seeing the FF under Hudlin's pen.

I can see it now: In the first issue Reed will tell T'Challa that his name is now Toby.

[The Foreigner]

From Joe Friday's:



There's only ONE way that sentence can be taken. One.


So, yeah.

They will be taking positions in the Fantastic Four, Marvel's first family.

There's TWO ways that sentence can be taken. Two.

So, yeah.

[Robodojo]

First, Wolverine becomes a member of the Avengers, and now Storm becomes a member of the FF? I hate this. Whatever happened to team loyalty?

I have zero interest in what Storm is doing these days, though I wish she would return to the X-men and end this Black Panther business. And I don't agree with Marvel management if they think that these two joining the Fantastic Four will somehow make that group a family again. The original four are a family not only due to blood and marriage, but because they have been through so much together over the years. Putting a married couple on the team won't make readers feel that this group is close, because the other two members have no real ties to them. I haven't been a Fantastic Four reader in years, but this move certainly wouldn't be the one to pull me back in.

[Beast]

First, Wolverine becomes a member of the Avengers, and now Storm becomes a member of the FF? I hate this. Whatever happened to team loyalty?

I have zero interest in what Storm is doing these days, though I wish she would return to the X-men and end this Black Panther business. And I don't agree with Marvel management if they think that these two joining the Fantastic Four will somehow make that group a family again. The original four are a family not only due to blood and marriage, but because they have been through so much together over the years. Putting a married couple on the team won't make readers feel that this group is close, because the other two members have no real ties to them. I haven't been a Fantastic Four reader in years, but this move certainly wouldn't be the one to pull me back in.
It's not like it's the first time that other people have joined or taken a member slot on the Fantastic Four.

[kate-pryde]

If they do add to their actual family, I can't see Quesada allowing Ororo to be pregnant, since that overly complicates things with a baby around. There's too much complaining and confusion about alternate timeline, fast-aging and magical children, so I doubt that would work either.

But I could see Hudlin wanting to introduce a new important African-American character.

My guess is that they'll either take in a relative (niece/nephew/cousin) or adopt a child who's at least older than Franklin.

But it doesn't interest me whatsoever what happens to Ororo as long as she's with Black Panther.

[Jack]

But I could see Hudlin wanting to introduce a new important African-American character....Wakanda has been moved to America?

[Omega Alpha]

That would make the most sense. But rumors seem to be saying Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Black Panther, and Storm. Either way, it doesn't sound interesting to me either. And I dread seeing the FF under Hudlin's pen.

I think it will be Thing, Human Torch, Storm and BP. Reed and Sue retire after Civil War, and Storm and BP take their place as the married couple of the team, and T'challa in the scientific role.


First, Wolverine becomes a member of the Avengers, and now Storm becomes a member of the FF? I hate this. Whatever happened to team loyalty?

Cyclops: Former member of the X-factor
Iceman: Champions, Defenders, X-Factor
Archangel: Champions, Defenders, X-Factor
Beast: Avengers, Defenders, X-factor
Jean Grey: X-factor
Havok: X-factor
Polaris: X-factor
Nightcrawler: Excalibur
Colossus: Excalibur
Shadowcat: Excalibur
Rachel: Excalibur
Psylocke: Exiles (:mad:)


Yep, plenty of "team loyalty" around...

[sinjection]

Black Kitten?

Doesn't really acknowledge Storm's contribution, but it'd be adorable.


"adorable" doesn't cut it.

Rather, Black Power!!!! Now that name would make all stand up and take notice. But since I'm rooting for twins - a boy and a girl - perhaps the extraordinarily-talented Hudlin will come up with two names which would represent the Black Power theme for both lovely offspring.

Thank you, Hudlin and Godspeed to you. With this news, fans such as myself are hopeful that once the children of T'Challa and Ororo are born, it will forever put to rest the horror of Ororo ever bearing the spawn of the ancient Forge, or the even-more ancient troll, Wolverine.

Once the children of the Panther and Storm grow to maturity, it could mark a new age for all black superheroes in the Marvel Universe. The excitement and pleasure is so intense, I feel like breaking into Curtis Mayfield's "We're A Winner" in celebration. Keep "winning", Hudlin!

[sinjection]

Meanwhile, I'll be throwing up my hands in celebration, anticipating that in due time, T'Challa and Ororo will be the black, beautiful and proud parents of two - I'm rooting for twins - black and beautiful offspring. The Watcher didn't witness the wedding of the Panther to Storm simply to "kill time". He "watched" for a purpose. His presence at that wedding was a portent of something profoundly significant...monumental and universe-shaking.

T'Challa and Ororo have already accomplished one great feat by becoming man and wife, King and Queen. Their great powers - not to mention their fabulous good looks and magnificent genes - will produce offspring that will become a great power in the Marvel Universe. I have Reginald Hudlin to thank for this sensational turn in the direction of two of Marvel's one-time most-ignored and abused characters. Well done, Mr. Hudlin!

[Brett P]

I havn't got a problem with this at all if it is actually children...I'm all for taking Storms character in a new direction.

[Mister Mets]

It could mean that they discover lost siblings, or get a dog, or any of several alternatives.

[DDM]

Cyclops: Former member of the X-factor
Iceman: Champions, Defenders, X-Factor
Archangel: Champions, Defenders, X-Factor
Beast: Avengers, Defenders, X-factor
Jean Grey: X-factor
Havok: X-factor
Polaris: X-factor
Nightcrawler: Excalibur
Colossus: Excalibur
Shadowcat: Excalibur
Rachel: Excalibur
Psylocke: Exiles (:mad:)

X-Factor was the original X-Men. Excalibur were British X-Men. The second X-Factor took the place of Freedom Force. Psylocke is in Exiles because Chris Claremont is not done with her.

Beast joined The Avengers since X-Men was in reprints in the early 70's. Angel & Iceman were part of The Champions & The New Defenders while they were written out of X-Men. Beast likewise joined The Defenders long before Warren & Bobby joined the group after he quit a long run on The Avengers. The New Defenders transitioned into X-Factor.

All of these groupings are not quite the same as Storm joining The Fantastic Four because X-Men is still a successful book. Hudlin seems to need Storm to get his propaganda across in Black Panther. The longer she stays in Black Panther, Storm will be relegated to a suopporting character role.

It's even more mindboggling Storm would join The Fantastic Four at all. It's not in her character to do so. Her first family is the X-Men.

[Gaastra]

Didn't wolverine join the new fantastic four?

Why can't storm?

[DDM]

Didn't wolverine join the new fantastic four?

Wolverine "joined" for 3 issues with Hulk & Ghost Rider. It was a joke.

Why can't storm?

Storm joining the team is not a joke. Which makes it worse...

[Deus ex Chris]

It's even more mindboggling Storm would join The Fantastic Four at all. It's not in her character to do so. Her first family is the X-Men.
It hasn't even been confirmed that she is joining, much less the circumstances surrounding said joining, so please explain to me how you know it's not in character for her to join.

[Hi-Fi]

It hasn't even been confirmed that she is joining, much less the circumstances surrounding said joining, so please explain to me how you know it's not in character for her to join.

I think it's completely out of character to her to abandon the X-Men in the bad times they're living in and join the Fantastic Four for whatever reason it is (I guess making a stand against registration)...


...if she is indeed joining the Fantastic Four, that is.

[Deus ex Chris]

I think it's completely out of character to her to abandon the X-Men in the bad times they're living in and join the Fantastic Four for whatever reason it is (I guess making a stand against registration)...
She didn't abandon the X-Men. Africa was suffering after M-Day, and she stayed to protect those who needed it. Besides, the X-Men are doing just fine, better than any other Marvel heroes, in fact.

[Hi-Fi]

She didn't abandon the X-Men. Africa was suffering after M-Day, and she stayed to protect those who needed it. Besides, the X-Men are doing just fine, better than any other Marvel heroes, in fact.

No, I'm not talking about her going to Africa. I thought that was fair and I defended her decision, actually. But if she joins the Fantastic Four just because, I'll be pissed, especially because I want her back in the X-Men. I mean, if she's back in New York, go help your friends.

Of course, we're all just speculating here.

And the X-Men aren't doing just fine, what books have you been reading?;)

[Deus ex Chris]

No, I'm not talking about her going to Africa. I thought that was fair and I defended her decision, actually. But if she joins the Fantastic Four just because, I'll be pissed, especially because I want her back in the X-Men.
I want her in the X-Men too, but it's a little early for people like DDM to get their panties in a twist and assume that she's joining just because and that the writers and editors don't understand her character and blah blah blah. Let's reserve judgement, shall we?
Of course, we're all just speculating here.
Of course.
And the X-Men aren't doing just fine, what books have you been reading?;)
The same ones that you have, doll, and compared to Cap's Secret Avengers or Spider-Man or Julia Carpenter, the X-Men are doing just fine--well, the ones who are still alive and powered-up, at least.

[Hi-Fi]

The same ones that you have, doll, and compared to Cap's Secret Avengers or Spider-Man or Julia Carpenter, the X-Men are doing just fine--well, the ones who are still alive and powered-up, at least.

Well, finally the other heroes are getting a taste of what it feels like being an outcast. The X-Men have been doing that routine for quite some time now.

[Beast]

Well, finally the other heroes are getting a taste of what it feels like being an outcast. The X-Men have been doing that routine for quite some time now.
Exactly. Hence why I don't mind them staying neutral and letting everyone else tear themselves to bits. Emma was exactly right when she ripped into Ms. Marvel in that one issue. The other heroes ignore the mutants until they need help. Sure it's petty, but everyone is getting their medicine now.

[Deus ex Chris]

Well, finally the other heroes are getting a taste of what it feels like being an outcast. The X-Men have been doing that routine for quite some time now.
Exactly. Hence why I don't mind them staying neutral and letting everyone else tear themselves to bits. Emma was exactly right when she ripped into Ms. Marvel in that one issue. The other heroes ignore the mutants until they need help. Sure it's petty, but everyone is getting their medicine now.

I agree with you both, but there's no reason for people to suggest that Storm abandoned the X-Men when they so desperately needed her, when, in fact, they didn't. I'm just sayin'...don't be hatin' on my girl, even if she's being written poorly. Let's just hope that McDuffie will indeed get his hands on her and will indeed do her justice. ;)

[Hi-Fi]

I agree with you both, but there's no reason for people to suggest that Storm abandoned the X-Men when they so desperately needed her, when, in fact, they didn't. I'm just sayin'...don't be hatin' on my girl, even if she's being written poorly. Let's just hope that McDuffie will indeed get his hands on her and will indeed do her justice. ;)

Dude, I love Storm. I was ok with her living to Africa to help out there after M-Day, and ok, she got married there (:rolleyes: ) but if she's indeed joining a team, I want it to be the X-Men, with her friends. ;)

[Deus ex Chris]

Dude, I love Storm. I was ok with her living to Africa to help out there after M-Day, and ok, she got married there (:rolleyes: ) but if she's indeed joining a team, I want it to be the X-Men, with her friends. ;)
Don't call me dude. It's not hot. Besides, I want her in the X-Men too, but it doesn't seem like that'll be happening anytime soon. Of course, as long as she ends up being well-written by somebody, I'm fine with that.

[Omega Alpha]

I think it's completely out of character to her to abandon the X-Men in the bad times they're living in and join the Fantastic Four for whatever reason it is (I guess making a stand against registration)...


...if she is indeed joining the Fantastic Four, that is.

Dude, she is the only character that never left the X-men once after she joined. Give her a break!

[sinjection]

I havn't got a problem with this at all if it is actually children...I'm all for taking Storms character in a new direction.

Removing Storm from the X-Men, locating her in Africa and finally, wedding her to the Black Panther, has elevated her from being X-fodder to the regal status of the elegant and powerful Queen of Mighty Wakanda. I'd suggest those developments have moved Storm's character in a new, fascinating, exciting and open-ended direction. There is no place for T'Challa and Ororo to go, but up. I don't mean "up in smoke". I mean up and onward.

[Beast]

Removing Storm from the X-Men, locating her in Africa and finally, wedding her to the Black Panther, has elevated her from being X-fodder to the regal status of the elegant and powerful Queen of Mighty Wakanda. I'd suggest those developments have moved Storm's character in a new, fascinating, exciting and open-ended direction. There is no place for T'Challa and Ororo to go, but up. I don't mean "up in smoke". I mean up and onward.
It would have, if it wasn't done in such a speedy and hackneyed way. Instead of bothering to build up a relationship between the two characters who haven't even seen each other since they were kids, we get shallow Storm ignoring her 'family' so she can marry someone she's barely seen since she was a kid and has even said didn't mean anything. It hasn't really moved her character in any direction. Now kill off Black Panther and leave her as the Queen of Wakanda, maybe she'll have a direction. As of right now she's just BP's wife.

[Tre Styles]

Wow. Storm sure brings out the passion in us. Maybe, the whole Storm and BP going to the FF is a red herring, and she and her husband are going back to live with the X-Men.(if Emma will let them, and there IS room now with Rogue and her group leaving...and why is that not a problem with anyone, but when Storm disagrees with Cyke and left everyone is in this uproar about her abandoing them team..ahhh back to the point..)...but then again, it could be true. I seriously, seriously doubt that even if they do join the FF, it's not going to be for long and definitely not forever. At one time, didn't the FF consist of Spidey, Wolverine, Ghost Rider and the Hulk? That didn't last long. She-Hulk was an FF member and that lasted a while, but eventuallly she left. On the other point, if Storm and T'Challa have children, I think that's cool. That's what a lot of married people do. Yes, there have been some problems with how Storm is being written, but it's time to move past that now and realize that for now this is the Storm we have. It's not like she won't come back to the X-Men someday. You know in your heart she will. Just like Jean Grey. But it's time for her to be out the X-Men's shadow for awhile. Let her live, love and grow.

[Beast]

Wow. Storm sure brings out the passion in us. Maybe, the whole Storm and BP going to the FF is a red herring, and she and her husband are going back to live with the X-Men.(if Emma will let them, and there IS room now with Rogue and her group leaving...and why is that not a problem with anyone, but when Storm disagrees with Cyke and left everyone is in this uproar about her abandoing them team..ahhh back to the point..)...but then again, it could be true. I seriously, seriously doubt that even if they do join the FF, it's not going to be for long and definitely not forever. At one time, didn't the FF consist of Spidey, Wolverine, Ghost Rider and the Hulk? That didn't last long. She-Hulk was an FF member and that lasted a while, but eventuallly she left. On the other point, if Storm and T'Challa have children, I think that's cool. That's what a lot of married people do. Yes, there have been some problems with how Storm is being written, but it's time to move past that now and realize that for now this is the Storm we have. It's not like she won't come back to the X-Men someday. You know in your heart she will. Just like Jean Grey. But it's time for her to be out the X-Men's shadow for awhile. Let her live, love and grow.
Nothing wrong with her living, loving, and growing as a character. Just the bad writing that she's being mangled with over in Black Panther. It's a shame too, I used to really like Storm until Reggie got his hooks into her.

[DDM]

Removing Storm from the X-Men, locating her in Africa and finally, wedding her to the Black Panther, has elevated her from being X-fodder to the regal status of the elegant and powerful Queen of Mighty Wakanda. I'd suggest those developments have moved Storm's character in a new, fascinating, exciting and open-ended direction. There is no place for T'Challa and Ororo to go, but up. I don't mean "up in smoke". I mean up and onward.

Storm is a supporting character in Black Panther; furthermore, there is no bond between Ororo & T'challa. A whole limited series had to retcon Marvel Team-Up #100 to prove a so-called "bond" existed between the two characters when it is nor true at all. Storm's character growth has been cut off because she is cut off from the X-Men. The X-Men are Ororo's family. T'challa is a perfect stranger.

Bad marketing, pandering to readers, & comatose editors are ruining two perfectly good characters.

The fact Ororo has been shoe-horned into Black Panther tells me Hudlin is desperate for readers.

[sinjection]

As of now, Storm's "family" is T'Challa, Ramonda, T'Challa's lovely sister and any relatives of her Mother and Father who she knows about and may yet meet. Storm's extended family are the citizens of Wakanda and the continent of Africa. Idealistically, one could say that Storm's family is the whole homo sapien/homo superior race, but that reality is a long, long way off. The X-Men was but an episode in Ororo's very eventful life. The love she experienced with T'Challa, though brief, was the best, the most beautiful and the most enduring love she'd known since that of her dearly-departed parents. This is why when the opportunity to do so presented itself, and T'Challa bared his soul and revealed the love he'd always had for her, Ororo graciously accepted his wedding proposal and returned to that "beautiful love". She is now the Queen of one of the Marvel Universe's most powerful, wealthiest nations, wife of one of the most handsome males in the Marvel Universe and - as Prof X himself stated - perhaps the most highly-visible and important mutant in the Marvel world. This is what Ororo has with T'Challa. When she was with the X-Men, she was a "sometime leader" and magnet for the sick sexual lusts of anyone of a number of characters created in the X-stories for that purpose. Storm is far better off now than she ever was as a member of the X-Men.


Some people may not like the manner in which the love relationship between the Panther and Storm was revived, repaired and improved. However, what Storm has now is a damned sight better than anything she would have had with the X-Men and married to the ancient Forge - who had ripped her powers from her and then ripped her heart out because of his jealousy of Bishop. Ororo couldn't have ever truly loved Forge. Indeed, she attempted to stab him. It would have been beneath Storm to have become intimately connected to the Wolverine. The very idea of those two together as a couple - spiritually, psychologically and physically - is repugnant.

Medusa is happily married to Black Bolt. They reign over the race of Inhumans and their relationship is incestuous. No one is calling for the death of Black Bolt. The Black Panther/Storm relationship is perfection. It matters not if the relationship was allowed to build for decades or one week. The Panther has always been an interesting character, but because of how he was written, had never reached his truest potential. Hudlin has finally put a MAN...a BLACK MAN in that Black Panther habit. Perhaps it is his blackness that the larger comicbook-buying demographic is unable to relate to and the reason why that demographic now rejects this new and improved Black Panther so vociferously.

To say that Panther and Storm together is an attractive couple is an understatement of monumental proportion. NO Marvel Couple has ever exuded the class, elegance and sensuality as do T'Challa and Ororo. In truth, they appear as two sleek panthers personified, resplendent in their perfect beauty. Storm's X-Men "life" was no life at all. She was being disgraced in stories like "The Arena" and involved in a suggestive lesbian relationship. Better that she is now the beautiful African Queen she was created to be and with the ONLY male character in the Marvel Universe that makes perfect sense for her to live with and to love.

Now, if the current writer of the White Tiger publication would realize that there are strong Puerto Rican males in this world and introduce Ms Del Toro to one of them rather than having Daredevil sniffing around her all the time, I might be interested in picking up that book as well.

[DDM]

As of now, Storm's "family" is T'Challa, Ramonda, T'Challa's lovely sister and any relatives of her Mother and Father who she knows about and may yet meet. Storm's extended family are the citizens of Wakanda and the continent of Africa. Idealistically, one could say that Storm's family is the whole homo sapien/homo superior race, but that reality is a long, long way off. The X-Men was but an episode in Ororo's very eventful life. The love she experienced with T'Challa, though brief, was the best, the most beautiful and the most enduring love she'd known since that of her dearly-departed parents. This is why when the opportunity to do so presented itself, and T'Challa bared his soul and revealed the love he'd always had for her, Ororo graciously accepted his wedding proposal and returned to that "beautiful love". She is now the Queen of one of the Marvel Universe's most powerful, wealthiest nations, wife of one of the most handsome males in the Marvel Universe and - as Prof X himself stated - perhaps the most highly-visible and important mutant in the Marvel world. This is what Ororo has with T'Challa. When she was with the X-Men, she was a "sometime leader" and magnet for the sick sexual lusts of anyone of a number of characters created in the X-stories for that purpose. Storm is far better off now than she ever was as a member of the X-Men.

Simply repeating "family" with a needless retcon to prove Ororo & T'challa are so-called family does not make it so.

Storm is the very foundation of the X-Men. You cannot remove her from X-Men to Black Panther without logical consequences. Hudlin already writes Ororo with the wrong voice. And the endless continuity problems just prove Hudlin is not writing the real Black Panther. He must be a Skrull or Immortus' Space Phantoms.

[sinjection]

The "foundation" of the X-Men is Charles Xavier, Cyclops, Beast, Marvel Girl, Iceman and Angel. Many other mutants have come and gone, but the "foundation" of the X-Men remains those who were at its origins.

Storm's new direction is the most natural and will prove to be the most exciting and successful for her character. Of all Marvel's black mutants, Storm was best treated and that's not really saying much considering how she was disgraced in "The Arena" and being set up for a potential lesbian relationship.

What Storm has is MORE REAL than anything she suffered through as an X-Man.

[Fatguy]

Now, if the current writer of the White Tiger publication would realize that there are strong Puerto Rican males in this world and introduce Ms Del Toro to one of them rather than having Daredevil sniffing around her all the time, I might be interested in picking up that book as well.

Wha? So...Races should only marry and associate with members of their own race? And Daredevil is "sniffing" around her? What, is he a sexual predator now? Jeez...

I think it would be cool to see BP and Storm on FF, though it would have to be reasonably explained why they would do so, or I would have to retract my enthusiasm. I didnt take the newsrama interview to mean children, though I suppose anything is possible.

[kate-pryde]

Storm is the very foundation of the X-Men. You cannot remove her from X-Men to Black Panther without logical consequences. Hudlin already writes Ororo with the wrong voice. And the endless continuity problems just prove Hudlin is not writing the real Black Panther. He must be a Skrull or Immortus' Space Phantoms.

I agree. Storm has gone from a strong female character who lead the X-Men to a supporting character in BP who seems completely out-of character.

Considering everything that's happening to mutants and all the troubles the X-Men are having, she belongs with her real family.

[sinjection]

[QUOTE=Fatguy;4092665]Wha? So...Races should only marry and associate with members of their own race? And Daredevil is "sniffing" around her? What, is he a sexual predator now? Jeez...
QUOTE]

Reed Richards has Sue. Johnny Storm kissed and made nice with a blue girl once, but other than that, he's seemed to always date white females. Tony Stark has never dated a black female. Matt Murdock has never dated a black female. Peter Parker never dated a black female. He was hot for a white woman with white hair who called herself the Black Cat, but that doesn't count. Captain America never dated a black woman. Most of Marvel's premier white male and white female characters have never dated outside of their race. If they had, I suspect the response to that would be something like that which occured when DC's Wonder Woman dated a black man - whom they promptly killed off.

Flash Thompson once dated an Asian female - Shashan or some such - who happened to have been married to an "abusive" (Asian) husband. During John Byrne's writing of the character, Namor was "infatuated" with a young, black female. The character Mantis - who became the Celestial Madonna - was Amer-Asian, the product of a white father - Libra of Zodiac - and a Vietnamese mother. There was the Iron Fist/Misty Knight relationship and now, Bendis' Luke Cage/Jessica Jones relationship. I've read it posted elsewhere that Jessica is often drawn looking as if a mule had kicked her in the face. I wasn't a fan of Bendis' Cage, but from what I've been able to gather, the relationship between Cage and Jones was purely sexual and was not monogamous. It wasn't until following a bout of "angry sex", when Jones discovered she was pregnant by Cage subsequently followed by the birth of their daughter, that their relationship took the turn that has culminated in marriage. That isn't the most positive basis for a strong and loving relationship and written from the perspective of a white guy, it seems to be telling readers comprising the larger comicbook-buying demographic, that that is the only type of relationship that could exist between a black male and a white female (who looks as if she'd been kicked in the face by a mule, by the way). Flash Thompson and the ubiquitous Wolverine, both attempted to "rescue" the female Asian objects of their desire from "abusive" relationships with Asian males. I find that portrayal to be troubling to say the least.

Luke Cage's first love was Claire Temple. I remember their relationship being the first in comics which featured a tender kiss between the lovers involved. I suspect that if Dr. Noah Bernstein had not been portrayed as Claire's kindly, father-figure employer, but rather, as a younger male who had romantic designs of his own where Claire Temple was concerned, the fans of that day would probably be rooting for Bernstein to reveal his love to Claire and rescue her from the "ghettoized" black "superhero for hire". That relationship didn't last. The Black Panther endured a lengthy relationship with Monica Lynne that NEVER seemed to be a happy one, again, it was written by white writers. Thankfully, that relationship didn't succeed. Otherwise, the marriage of Storm to the Panther could not have taken place. The Falcon had a relationship of a sort with a black woman, but it was never fully developed. Glory Grant has had two romantic relationships with men of color. The first such relationship was with Hector Ayala, the original White Tiger and Angela Del Toro's uncle. Glory Grant's second relationship was with a mutant Mexican criminal. Both relationships were short-lived and both male characters are now dead of gunshot wounds. The Cloak and Dagger relationship isn't a romantic one and is disturbing in the sense that Cloak seems to be dependent on Dagger's light, she is able to remove his power from him when necessary and she is free to pursue a significant relationship with any white male who happens to come sniffing around. And of course, it's always worse for the black mutant male. Cloak is also a black, mutant male. Currently David Alleyne (formerly Prodigy), is involved in some kind of relationship with Noriko Ashida (Surge), which has her constantly admonishing the petulant, but always-powerful white mutant punk, Hellion, to "protect David". That is how white writers portray a black male and then there are many readers who wonder why (and lament the fact), that Reginal Hudlin has written the Black Panther as the supremely confident, capable and powerful character he has become.

The lovely Cecelia Reyes - black Puerto Rican mutant - is being forced into an abominable relationship with Hank McCoy. That is a relationship that is sick and should be ended immediately in my view. In the event that the Reyes/McCoy relationship isn't ended, the very least the folks at Marvel could do is give Puerto Rican adventurer Angela Del Toro the chance to explore her most significant intimate relationship with a Puerto Rican male.

It would be disastrous if the Panther and Storm joined the Fantastic Four. Serving in that capacity would make it almost impossible for them to be rulers of Wakanda. Fans wouldn't expect Medusa to rejoin the Fantastic Four, bringing her husband, Black Bolt, along with her. Fans shouldn't expect the same where the Wakandan Royals are concerned.

[sinjection]

I agree. Storm has gone from a strong female character who lead the X-Men to a supporting character in BP who seems completely out-of character.

Considering everything that's happening to mutants and all the troubles the X-Men are having, she belongs with her real family.


Storm has gone from being a "sometime leader" of a mutant superhero team, where she was often at odds with and having her capabilities challenged by characters such as Cyclops and the Angel and lusted after by the troll Wolverine and Nightcrawler...reduced to "seducing" another young, white male mutant, being disgraced in stories like "The Arena"...being pawed and groped by every sexual freak - human, mutant, extraterrestrial, interdimensional and vampiric - created by or involved in stories written by X-writers, to being the wife of the dynamic Black Panther and elegant Queen of Mighty Wakanda. I'm sure if she could speak for herself, Ororo would say that Hudlin has given her the better deal.

During her time with the X-Men, Storm was never given a healthy romantic relationship with a male. Bishop could have been that black, mutant male which could have provided that relationship for her. This deprivation of a normal romantic male/female relationship led many X-readers to suspect that Storm actually had lesbian designs on Kitty Pryde and may have been involved in a lesbian relationship with Yukio.

Storm was being abused in the X-Men. Thank goodness for Reginald Hudlin and the Black Panther.

Today, Storm is with her REAL family. Once it becomes possible to do so, the happy event of a pregnancy and the delivery of a child (I'm hoping for children, as in twins), will expand Storm's REAL family. The longer Storm is away from the X-Men, that relationship becomes easier to see in its truest perspective. Cyclops never considered Storm to be "family". She was just a "team leader" and someone to yell at. Wolverine never considered Storm to be "family". That troll was just wanting to get Storm in the "family way".

Storm is where she belongs. She belongs with the Panther and the Panther belongs with Storm.

[Fatguy]

Most of Marvel's premier white male and white female characters have never dated outside of their race. If they had, I suspect the response to that would be something like that which occured when DC's Wonder Woman dated a black man - whom they promptly killed off.

Why would you assume that?

Flash Thompson once dated an Asian female - Shashan or some such - who happened to have been married to an "abusive" (Asian) husband. During John Byrne's writing of the character, Namor was "infatuated" with a young, black female. The character Mantis - who became the Celestial Madonna - was Amer-Asian, the product of a white father - Libra of Zodiac - and a Vietnamese mother. There was the Iron Fist/Misty Knight relationship and now, Bendis' Luke Cage/Jessica Jones relationship. I've read it posted elsewhere that Jessica is often drawn looking as if a mule had kicked her in the face. I wasn't a fan of Bendis' Cage, but from what I've been able to gather, the relationship between Cage and Jones was purely sexual and was not monogamous. It wasn't until following a bout of "angry sex", Jones discovered she was pregnant by Cage subsequently followed by the birth of their daughter, that their relationship took the turn that has culminated in marriage. That isn't the most positive basis for a strong and loving relationship and written from the perspective of a white guy, it seems to be telling readers comprising the larger comicbook-buying demographic, that that is the only type of relationship that could exist between a black male and a white female (who looks as if she'd been kicked in the face by a mule, by the way). Flash Thompson and the ubiquitous Wolverine, both attempted to "rescue" the female Asian objects of their desire from "abusive" relationships with Asian males. I find that portrayal to be troubling to say the least.

Luke Cage's first love was Claire Temple. I remember their relationship being the first in comics which featured a tender kiss between the lovers involved. I suspect that if Dr. Noah Bernstein had not been portrayed as Claire's kindly, father-figure employer, but rather a younger male who had romantic designs of his own where Claire Temple was concerned, the fans of that day would probably be rooting for Bernstein to reveal his love to Claire and rescue her from the "ghettoized" black "superhero for hire". That relationship didn't last. The Black Panther enjoyed a lengthy relationship with Monica Lynne that NEVER seemed to be a happy one, again, it was written by white writers. Thankfully, that relationship didn't succeed. Otherwise, the marriage of Storm to the Panther could not have taken place. The Falcon had a relationship of a sort with a black woman, but it was never fully developed. Glory Grant has had two romantic relationships with men of color. The first such relationship was with Hector Ayala (the original White Tiger and Angela Del Toro's uncle) and with a mutant Mexican criminal. Both relationships were short-lived and both male characters are now dead of gunshot wounds. The Cloak and Dagger relationship isn't a romantic one and is disturbing in the sense that Cloak seems to be dependent on Dagger's light, she is able to remove his power from him when necessary and she is free to pursue a significant relationship with any white male who happens to come sniffing around. And of course, it's always worse for the black mutant male. Currently David Alleyne (formerly Prodigy), is involved in some kind of relationship with Noriko Ashida (Surge), which has her constantly admonishing the petulant, but always-powerful white mutant punk, Hellion, to "protect David". That is how white writers portray a black male and then there are many readers who wonder why (and lament the fact), that Reginal Hudlin has written the Black Panther as the supremely confident, capable and powerful character he has become.

The lovely Cecelia Reyes - black Puerto Rican mutant - is being forced into an abominable relationship with Hank McCoy. That is a relationship that is sick and should be ended immediately in my view. In the event that the Reyes/McCoy relationship isn't ended, the very least the folks at Marvel could do is give Puerto Rican adventurer Angela Del Toro the chance to explore her most significant intimate relationship with a Puerto Rican male.


I honestly apologize if I missed your point somewhere in all this, but it seems what you're saying is...there arent enough positive interracial relationships in comics? So you want White Tiger to not have any possible relationships with somebody outside her race?

You'll have to pardon me if that seems a bit strange. Wouldnt it be better to see more positive relationships between people of different ethnicity, than to desire segregation?

And on a late P.S. I would like to add, in comics for every couple of mixed race that ends with tragedy or otherwise, there are 10 white couples who end in the same exact ways. These are fictional characters, SUPER-HEROES, relationships tend to go south far more often they end up working out. IMHO its a racial thing only if you choose to look at it that way.

[Beast]

Sounds like Sinjection just has issues with inter-racial couples to me. It's sad to see such closed minded racism in this day in age. Especially when there's been such progress from the day and age when such pairings would be looked on with disgust and hatred. And Cece Reyes and Beast was not a sick relationship!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/SCAN0003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/SCAN0004.jpg

[sinjection]

Why would you assume that?


I "assume" nothing in this case. The facts are clear.

- No white Marvel "A-List" character - male or female - has ever been romantically involved with a black character. I cannot remember when an A-List Marvel character - male or female - was every romantically involved with any "character of color". I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm just saying that's the way it's always been.

- From my understanding, there were many fans comprising the larger comicbook-buying demographic, who were very unhappy about Wonder Woman's pursuit of and subsequent "dating/romantic interest" relationship with a black male character. Wolverine happens to be an "A-List" Marvel character. There seemed to be many fans..."RoLos"...who wanted the teammate relationship between Storm and Wolverine to become a romantic one, although there was never anything between them except Wolverine's disgusting lust and the flirtatious nature the X-writers afflicted Ororo with. Ororo either wants a man or she doesn't. She didn't want Wolverine. She's always wanted T'Challa. Thus, the marriage. She isn't an "A-List" character, but let Spider-Woman become romantically involved with a black male character and watch the invective fly. If I'm not mistaken, Bendis might have intended Jessica Jones to be Jessica Drew, but was not given the permission to make it so.

[sinjection]

I honestly apologize if I missed your point somewhere in all this, but it seems what you're saying is...there arent enough positive interracial relationships in comics? So you want White Tiger to not have any possible relationships with somebody outside her race?

You'll have to pardon me if that seems a bit strange. Wouldnt it be better to see more positive relationships between people of different ethnicity, than to desire segregation?

And on a late P.S. I would like to add, in comics for every couple of mixed race that ends with tragedy or otherwise, there are 10 white couples who end in the same exact ways. These are fictional characters, SUPER-HEROES, relationships tend to go south far more often they end up working out. IMHO its a racial thing only if you choose to look at it that way.

I'm saying there are too few true romantic relationships involving Black men with Black women, Asian men with Asian women and Latinos with Latinas. I believe it would be a positive development in the White Tiger series, to have the course of events deviate from the white (or white male/become hairy, blue monster), pattern. There would be nothing at all wrong and everything right about Angela Del Toro meeting and becoming involved in a caring, romantic relationship with a Puerto Rican male. She beat a few up in the inaugural issue of her series (I didn't buy the book. I viewed the online pics). She should be able to find a Puerto Rican male to kiss, to hug and to share her life with.

Another trend I'd like to see end is that of "tragic endings" to romances in the Marvel Universe. I vote that T'Challa and Ororo's marriage be the first not to ever be torn asunder.

[sinjection]

Sounds like Sinjection just has issues with inter-racial couples to me. It's sad to see such closed minded racism in this day in age. Especially when there's been such progress from the day and age when such pairings would be looked on with disgust and hatred. And Cece Reyes and Beast was not a sick relationship!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/SCAN0003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/SCAN0004.jpg


Poor Cecelia. It's easy for someone to say such a relationship isn't a "sick" one if that "someone" isn't involved in such a relationship. At least Tigra has a human face and a human mouth. Hank McCoy has an animals face, nose and mouth included. I love animals. I wouldn't want to marry one and have sexual relations with one. Why subject Cecelia to such a cruel fate? The way McCoy was drawn in the story featured in these scans was bad enough. Now, with his continued mutations, he has become more animal than man. Cecelia deserved better. Sunspot - Roberto D'Costa - would be my immediate choice.

[Fatguy]

I dunno, this is going to be my last post on the matter, as I dont want to feed the subject further. It seems you have a closed mind on the subject and I feel bad for you for having it. I just want to quote you twice here real quick:


I "assume" nothing in this case. The facts are clear.

That kind of doesnt fit with what I quoted you saying in my last post:

Most of Marvel's premier white male and white female characters have never dated outside of their race. If they had, I suspect the response to that would be something like that which occured when DC's Wonder Woman dated a black man - whom they promptly killed off.

You said above, that an A-list character from Marvel has NEVER dated outside his/her race. So, if its never happened...how can it be FACT that they would be killed off?

I hope this topic hasnt gone too far off as to be edited by moderators. I think its important that people should be able to respond to post like those from Sinjection. Things that are stated in the posts come off as very anti-white male, and they are border offensive. Things such as referring to every white character pursuing another character of color as something "disgusting" or to use the term "Sniffing around" at every opportunity, makes it seem an awful lot like you think of white males as something foul, or less than human.

[Beast]

Poor Cecelia. It's easy for someone to say such a relationship isn't a "sick" one if that "someone" isn't involved in such a relationship. At least Tigra has a human face and a human mouth. Hank McCoy has an animals face, nose and mouth included. I love animals. I wouldn't want to marry one and have sexual relations with one. Why subject Cecelia to such a cruel fate? The way McCoy was drawn in the story featured in these scans was bad enough. Now, with his continued mutations, he has become more animal than man. Cecelia deserved better. Sunspot - Roberto D'Costa - would be my immediate choice.
Ummm, Hank has a human face and human mouth other than in his feline form. And anyone who thinks the feline form is going to last forever is fooling themselves. And you'll notice in those panels that he's in his apeman form again, not the feline one. How is love a cruel fate? Just because you can't seem to get past skin color, doesn't mean everyone is so closed-minded and racist. And wait.... you'd rather have her with someone half her age just because they're the same color as her? Dude, the KKK must just love you.

[twilight]

I certainly hope you're kidding around Sinjection.

Some of the stuff you're saying is unbelievably stupid.

[sinjection]

I dunno, this is going to be my last post on the matter, as I dont want to feed the subject further. It seems you have a closed mind on the subject and I feel bad for you for having it. I just want to quote you twice here real quick:




That kind of doesnt fit with what I quoted you saying in my last post:



You said above, that an A-list character from Marvel has NEVER dated outside his/her race. So, if its never happened...how can it be FACT that they would be killed off?

I hope this topic hasnt gone too far off as to be edited by moderators. I think its important that people should be able to respond to post like those from Sinjection. Things that are stated in the posts come off as very anti-white male, and they are border offensive. Things such as referring to every white character pursuing another character of color as something "disgusting" or to use the term "Sniffing around" at every opportunity, makes it seem an awful lot like you think of white males as something foul, or less than human.

Posts such as yours attempt to portray my very important observations and the relating of actual facts as some sort of insidious "attack". This is often the tact taken by those who have no strong counter-argument and want to extinguish the topic. Mischaracterize me as you will. It doesn't matter to me because what you've attempted to suggest about me isn't true. I know that. I'm comfortable with that. This is one reason I am able to post my observations with a clear conscience.

By the way, you need to re-read the post you are responding to. I said the black male who was dating Wonder Woman was promptly killed off. Check it out for yourself if you don't believe me. Brotha's dead.

[Expletive Deleted]

How predictable.