New Avengers #27 cover plagarized?

[Veritas]

After looking through the artbook of a manga I recently purchased (it's from Crazy Dog Show), I saw an image that I thought looked very familiar. And then I realized where I has seen it previously. The upcoming cover to New Avengers #27 is almost *identical* to it. Judge for yourself here:

Original: http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/8388/dogshow011ne6.png
Leinil Yu's version: http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/33/normalnewavengers271024jf1.jpg

Okay, so he added more ninjas and such. Wasn't there a memo at Marvel regarding stuff like this? Granted it isn't as bad as some of the Greg Land stuff out there.. but still.

[Will.S]

Hmm, that does look pretty darn close but maybe it's intentional.

This isn't the same as the Greg Land stuff though which sometimes looks traced, Leinil's cover looks like it could be a homage.

[Cayman]

No, it's not all that similar.

Ninjas leaping isn't particularly novel.

[Young Avenger]

What's with someone's obsession with finding swipes?

To me, the cover looks like a homeage.

[Jadeskies]

The marvel version is better, the marble paper in the background is bad. Anyways its not plagarism. Plagarism is taking someones words (or art) and trying to pass it off as your own. If they took the same anime art and put NEW AVENGERS at the top then its plagarism. Otherwise its homage or influence.

I mean theres lots of covers where the male hero is holding a dead female draped over his arms and shouting to the sky but they are not plagarism. Theres tons of pages where the FF cover of the FF fighting a Moleman creature is replicated but that doesnt make it plagarism.

[RichStanz]

I mean theres lots of covers where the male hero is holding a dead female draped over his arms and shouting to the sky but they are not plagarism. Theres tons of pages where the FF cover of the FF fighting a Moleman creature is replicated but that doesnt make it plagarism.

The thing about the FF cover homage though, is that the original FF cover is pretty famous.

While I'm not sure what the real deal behind the Yu cover, it is (at least in the U.S.) more popular than its source material. More people know the NA cover than the manga art collection from Crazy Dog Show.

That's where it always gets hazy if its homage or swipe - when the thing that's doing the tribute garners more fame and attention than the original work.

[Jolly Mon]

That's where it always gets hazy if its homage or swipe - when the thing that's doing the tribute garners more fame and attention than the original work.

I disagree. I don't think whether or not a piece is more or less famous than the piece swiping/homaging makes a difference. If you swipe from something famous you're just as lazy as if you swipe from something obscure. In any case, this isn't even close to a swipe, much less plagarisim. The New Avengers cover may have been influenced by it, or both influenced by another piece, but the NA cover is in no way similar enough to be a swipe. None of the characters are in the same positions. The only similarity is one person having a bunch of ninjas flying diagonally across the page at him.

[Karthak]

In the new avengers cover I find the way all those ninjas are packed together rather amusing. I can already imagining them all tangling into a big ball when they land and falling on each others swords(which is exactly what would happen if someone tried a stunt like that in real life......poor elektra, crushed beneath her own men:p )

[rick]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but I am pretty certain that both pictures are a homage to a splash page Frank Miller drew during his initial run in Daredevil.

[Jeff-E]

It's kind of a generic cover, is it possible that it's just an accident that the two are similar? Not everything has to be an homage, or a swipe.

[StoneGold]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but I am pretty certain that both pictures are a homage to a splash page Frank Miller drew during his initial run in Daredevil.

That's what I'm thinking. In any case, it's not a direct swipe, because all the ninjas are posed differently. Other than being in the same kind of central mass, they're all holding different weapons, and holding them differently. Which would kind of defeat the purpose of lightboxing.

[venuscameback]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but I am pretty certain that both pictures are a homage to a splash page Frank Miller drew during his initial run in Daredevil.

That was my first thought on seeing the NA cover, 'ooh, reminds of Frank Miller on Daredevil'

[NickThompson]

I don't have the issue in front of me, but I am pretty certain that both pictures are a homage to a splash page Frank Miller drew during his initial run in Daredevil.

I'm vaguely remembering a Chris Bachalo cover that was similar too.

[Kirk G]

I think the fact that Marvel may be printing the same image over and over (like the Mole Man cover or the X-men 138 cover) may not be considered plagerism because THEY OWN THE IMAGE and you can't plagerize from yourself, eh?

[StoneGold]

I think the fact that Marvel may be printing the same image over and over (like the Mole Man cover or the X-men 138 cover) may not be considered plagerism because THEY OWN THE IMAGE and you can't plagerize from yourself, eh?

Well, you can. But considering the image, and what's going on in it, this is more of an homage.

[Mikl C]

The original is beautiful.

[NickThompson]

I'm vaguely remembering a Chris Bachalo cover that was similar too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/ReaperFett/NEWAVN027_col.jpghttp://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/95548039980.3.VARIANT.GIF

[Will.S]

Good catch Nick, seems like an ongoing homage of sorts which I love seeing. I'm curious as to what image the homage was specifically based on.

BTW I made a "favorite homages" thread not too long ago which was fun sharing images with GLA Avengers the poster (I think) and a few others. It was very interesting since some covers were homages I didn't even know about. It should hopefully be archived in the MU discussion board if you guys want to dig it up.

[leinilyu]

I would swear on a stack of bibles that I wasn't copying Chris Bachalo's cover for my NA 27 cover... or else I would've written "after Bachalo" on my sig:)

I knew it was an homage of sorts but to which cover exactly, I didn't know. But damn, Na 27 does look like a direct homage to Chris'. Sorry bout that...

The conception of my NA cover is just a face-off between Ronin and Elektra....then a funny idea is to have a bunch of ninjas falling with her in a ball.... an homage to Frank Miller and to movies like Kill bill and Hong kong flicks. ).... then the rest is...... a cover that looks like Chris'. hehe.

Oh well.

[gorthon616]

The marvel version is better, the marble paper in the background is bad. Anyways its not plagarism. Plagarism is taking someones words (or art) and trying to pass it off as your own. If they took the same anime art and put NEW AVENGERS at the top then its plagarism. Otherwise its homage or influence.

I mean theres lots of covers where the male hero is holding a dead female draped over his arms and shouting to the sky but they are not plagarism. Theres tons of pages where the FF cover of the FF fighting a Moleman creature is replicated but that doesnt make it plagarism.

The original is a hell-of-a-lot better than the Marvel one. The ninjas in the Marvel one look like they are wearing puffy winter jackets, Electra looks nice, but is positioned awkwardly, and (not liking him withstanding) Ronin looks stumpy. The color tones on the first are beautiful and the shading effects work better that in the Marvel one. The girls body does look a bit contorted and her eyes look a little odd but that it.

Reprinting or (depicting something like the FF fighting Moleman) could be a trademark violation though, but that just depends on whether or nor the person was trying to imply that there was an associated with the trademark. So it'd doubtful that this would be the case.

[leinilyu]

The original is a hell-of-a-lot better than the Marvel one. The ninjas in the Marvel one look like they are wearing puffy winter jackets, Electra looks nice, but is positioned awkwardly, and (not liking him withstanding) Ronin looks stumpy. The color tones on the first are beautiful and the shading effects work better that in the Marvel one. The girls body does look a bit contorted and her eyes look a little odd but that it.

Reprinting or (depicting something like the FF fighting Moleman) could be a trademark violation though, but that just depends on whether or nor the person was trying to imply that there was an associated with the trademark. So it'd doubtful that this would be the case.

You are entitled to your opinion, sir but you have NO business declaring which one is the original or not. I drew the Marvel version a good 4-5 months ago. My preliminary sketches were dated 7/12 and I finished it on July 19. That was when It was still supposed to be New Avengers 26 and got pushed back.

Leinil Yu

[gorthon616]

You are entitled to your opinion, sir but you have NO business declaring which one is the original or not. I drew the Marvel version a good 4-5 months ago. My preliminary sketches were dated 7/12 and I finished it on July 19. That was when It was still supposed to be New Avengers 26 and got pushed back.

Leinil Yu

Miscommunication here. I was never claiming that yours was a swipe or a steal (or not the original... not exactly sure what you thought I was trying to say). I honestly don't see how anyone would think that your cover is anything more than just the natural way of showing that particular scene.

On an aside, I have to say that (criticism on the cover not withstanding) I'm generally a fan of your work (Ultimate Hulk vs. Wolverine looks awesome!), and while I'm not too big on the New Avengers I'm considering picking it up on your art.

Again, hope you don't take the criticism/miscommunication too harshly. :)

[leinilyu]

No problems sir! I'm quite numb now with critiques on my art:) yours is pretty mild compared to others who totally are disgusted with my work.

I am (as I just found out) quite sensitive to being possibly labeled as a swiper so I felt I have to make things clear.

Thanks for understanding:)

[rwsmith]

Lenil, the cover looks fantastic. My only hope is that you actually get to draw Wolverine in this arc because...well...fighting ninjas is what he does best and you draw one of the best Wolverines in the business.

[MaxofSteel]

Yay Leinil Yu posts here!:D

Awesome cover man. Big fan of your work. Looking foreward to more of your shtuff in this run.

[gorthon616]

Glad that has been sorted out. :)

[mattbib]

I am (as I just found out) quite sensitive to being possibly labeled as a swiper so I felt I have to make things clear.
While we all know there are swipers out there, I think it's equally fair to say that multiple people can have the same good "original" idea. I think conceptually the Miller inspiration is a given (especially since that's what the majority of us thought you were going for), but style-wise it reminds me a bit of old-school Mignola as well, albeit a little more detailed.

[leinilyu]

Don't worry guys, there is plenty of Wolverine and New Avengers in this arc:)

the reason you don't see them in the previews is because they still don't want to reveal the line-up. I'm wondering how they will solicit issue 28 when it has the whole cast on it on the cover. This arc is filled with the complete cast.

BTW, I'm working on a sick variant cover that will span both New Avengers and Mighty Avengers. Now I know some you guys are not into it but it looks pretty nifty so you might wanna check it out:) It's a puzzle variant that you can piece together. I suggest buying all covers... then buy 2 more variants and stick em onto your walls. lol. seriously, I hope you guys enjoy it.

The other good news is that I have a healthy lead time so you won't see a fill-in artist anytime soon. Thanks and check out leinilyu.com for some other stuff I'm doing.

[Will.S]

I would swear on a stack of bibles that I wasn't copying Chris Bachalo's cover for my NA 27 cover... or else I would've written "after Bachalo" on my sig:)

I knew it was an homage of sorts but to which cover exactly, I didn't know. But damn, Na 27 does look like a direct homage to Chris'. Sorry bout that...

The conception of my NA cover is just a face-off between Ronin and Elektra....then a funny idea is to have a bunch of ninjas falling with her in a ball.... an homage to Frank Miller and to movies like Kill bill and Hong kong flicks. ).... then the rest is...... a cover that looks like Chris'. hehe.

Oh well.
That's pretty interesting how coincidental it all really is but I dig your cover more than the other versions since well....it's Elektra vs Ronin in some badass poses.

I like the way you depict the hand ninjas in particular with the gauntlets and actual footwear. I've never liked the whole strappy and barefoot depictions so I like that they look at least more dangerous and modern.

[leinilyu]

thanks, will! If I could modernize them some more like adding night vision goggles, I would... but that would break the dogma:)

[NickThompson]

I would swear on a stack of bibles that I wasn't copying Chris Bachalo's cover for my NA 27 cover... or else I would've written "after Bachalo" on my sig:)

I knew it was an homage of sorts but to which cover exactly, I didn't know. But damn, Na 27 does look like a direct homage to Chris'. Sorry bout that...

The conception of my NA cover is just a face-off between Ronin and Elektra....then a funny idea is to have a bunch of ninjas falling with her in a ball.... an homage to Frank Miller and to movies like Kill bill and Hong kong flicks. ).... then the rest is...... a cover that looks like Chris'. hehe.

Oh well.

Ha, fair enough :)



Can't wait to see your work in NA :)

[rwsmith]

Don't worry guys, there is plenty of Wolverine and New Avengers in this arc:)

the reason you don't see them in the previews is because they still don't want to reveal the line-up. I'm wondering how they will solicit issue 28 when it has the whole cast on it on the cover. This arc is filled with the complete cast.

BTW, I'm working on a sick variant cover that will span both New Avengers and Mighty Avengers. Now I know some you guys are not into it but it looks pretty nifty so you might wanna check it out:) It's a puzzle variant that you can piece together. I suggest buying all covers... then buy 2 more variants and stick em onto your walls. lol. seriously, I hope you guys enjoy it.

The other good news is that I have a healthy lead time so you won't see a fill-in artist anytime soon. Thanks and check out leinilyu.com for some other stuff I'm doing.

Sounds awesome. Glad to hear that Wolverine will still be on the team and that you will be drawing him ('Not Dead Yet' might be one of my favorite Wolverine stories of all times, and I loved how you drew Logan in Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk #1).

I'm also very interested in these variant covers. Will this be a crossover with the Mighty Avengers or are you just drawing variants for both that will link up?

Thanks for taking the time to talk to the fans, Lenil.

[The Tyrant Virus]

No problems sir! I'm quite numb now with critiques on my art:) yours is pretty mild compared to others who totally are disgusted with my work.

IMO, your work is some of the absolute best there is right now. Your style is very unique and distinct. You are one of the select few artists that I would buy a book just for thier art, and I'm really looking forward to your New Avengers work.

[Ullar]

oh gwad pleae no more puzzle covers! i am still resiting the urge 2 get the first NA puzzle covers u will break me man ur art is 2 good 2 resit!

[streator]

I would swear on a stack of bibles that I wasn't copying Chris Bachalo's cover for my NA 27 cover... or else I would've written "after Bachalo" on my sig:)

I knew it was an homage of sorts but to which cover exactly, I didn't know. But damn, Na 27 does look like a direct homage to Chris'. Sorry bout that...

The conception of my NA cover is just a face-off between Ronin and Elektra....then a funny idea is to have a bunch of ninjas falling with her in a ball.... an homage to Frank Miller and to movies like Kill bill and Hong kong flicks. ).... then the rest is...... a cover that looks like Chris'. hehe.

Oh well.

i think it's a cool cover regardless.

[leinilyu]

oh gwad pleae no more puzzle covers! i am still resiting the urge 2 get the first NA puzzle covers u will break me man ur art is 2 good 2 resit!

hehe,thanks man...

but I just finished the variants and I sincerely think it's one hell of a cover... possibly my best cover yet:) (shameless plug). I'm just so excited about this
cause it reminds me of the days when I was a heavy comics collector (Image comics boom=not really reader cause, c'mon, what's there to read in Image comics back in the day, you look at
Image comics not read them:) hehe... I hunted down that awesome Prophet #4 Stephen Platt cover mainly because I really love his stuff (ridiculous amount of veins and muscles, count me in). I also got multiple copies of the Whilce Portacio 8 piece puzzle variant for Wildstorm... I loved those things immensly.

Thanks, guys! back to work, I hope all this hardwork will pay off and make you guys happy.


Leinil

[leinilyu]

IMO, your work is some of the absolute best there is right now. Your style is very unique and distinct. You are one of the select few artists that I would buy a book just for thier art, and I'm really looking forward to your New Avengers work.

Thank you! I'm glad to know you like my work that much:)