Female Illuminati

[jackolover]

Okay, let's say Sue Storm wants to put together an female group, because the men have a macho approach to everything, even saving the world behind the scenes. It has to have the same objectives as the men, only they don't go for the CW option.


Here is a suggested group

Sue Storm
Black Widow
Madusa
Storm
Namora (Just back from the dead in AOA)

My opinion, is that the women go the pro-registration road, but they don't go to congress and explain any grand scheme. They agree Stamford makes unregistered combatants too much of a problem, but they have a better idea than the men. They plan a phase transition. No confrontation. No rounding up.

The reason I suggest the female alternative to the Illuminati, is that what if Sue heard about Reeds group, and instead of doing what she did in the book, she got angry that a Patriarcal secret society was pulling the strings behind the scenes. I wonder if women want to be part of any decision making when it comes to what's good for society. Maybe an all man group doesn't have a complete perspective, like a Male /Female mixture.

[Frostbite883]

My version of a female Illuminati would be these awesome, spectacular babes.

;) :p

Susan Richards aka Invisible Woman(wife of Reed Richards, member of the Fantastic Four)
Namora(cousin of Namor the Sub-Mariner)
Medusa(wife and cousin of Black Bolt)
Clea(wife of Sorcerer Supreme, Doctor Strange)
Emma Frost(headmistress of the Xavier Institute)
Jocasta(former wife of the Ultron, reserved member of the Avengers)

reserved member
Storm(wife of the Black Panther and queen of Wakanda)

Well, that's that.

Late'.

[a-spidey]

maybe she-hulk would be an option too.:)

[Nevets F]

Invisible Woman (FF)
Storm (Mutants)
Wasp (Avengers)
Medusa (Inhumans)
Thena (Eternals)
Namora (Atlantians)
Talisman (Magic)

And added to the male version, should be Ikaris of the Eternals.

[Cayman]

Invisible Woman - Leader and organizer
Amanda Sefton - Ruler of Limbo and a powerful mystic
Thena - Eternal
Sage - Information
Moondragon - Grand manipulator and would be pissed if not invited

[old_schoola]

storm would definitely be in the group!!:evilsmile

[rogerio]

Sue Storm
Ororo Munroe
Emma Frost
Moondragon

[Atom_basher]

female illuminati

Invisible Woman (Leader and powerhouse)
Emma Frost (Mutants)
Storm (Queen of Wakanda)
Medusa (queen of inhumans, all around badass)
Talisman (wielder of the Talisman badass magic user)
Namora (atlatean royalty)
Sersi (Eternal)

[Blackcat]

It seems to me these has to be high functionbased and a bit distrustful too. So my guess would be:

Moondragon
Black Widow
Emma Frost
Tarantula
Scarlet Witch
Snowbird

[Deus ex Chris]

Marvel's Movers and Shakers:

Storm
Invisible Woman
Ms. Marvel
Emma Frost
Namora
Black Widow
Medusa
Thena

[Atom_basher]

wouldn't ms marvel be out of her league with those other females Chris?

[Deus ex Chris]

wouldn't ms marvel be out of her league with those other females Chris?
Why would you say that? She's had extensive military training. She had an administrative job with the Department of Homeland Security, overseeing super-human affairs. She has an extensive background dealing with extraterrestrials and give her a few zaps from Storm or some other external source, and she could handily take out just about everyone else in the group.

[Arrjay]

Squirrel Girl. (Wherever the hell she's from.)

Spider Woman. (New Avengers.)

The Wasp. (Mighty Avengers.)

Crystal. (Inhumans.)

Angel (The 198.)

[Atom_basher]

Why would you say that? She's had extensive military training. She had an administrative job with the Department of Homeland Security, overseeing super-human affairs. She has an extensive background dealing with extraterrestrials and give her a few zaps from Storm or some other external source, and she could handily take out just about everyone else in the group.

well im not debating her ass kickery, i love ms marvel, but her influence isnt as powerful as the others.

[Deus ex Chris]

well im not debating her ass kickery, i love ms marvel, but her influence isnt as powerful as the others.
I'd say her influence has increased significantly in the last year, and with Mighty Avengers on the horizon and with her seemingly calling the shots in the preview, I can only assume that her influence is only going to continue to increase.

[Haunt]

Medusa
Storm
Invisible Woman
Namora
Moondragon

[JoshBot]

Hmm, female Illuminati? That could work. I seem to remember a story about ancient Rome where a group of women were disgusted with their men constantly going off to war. They decided to band together and withhold sex from their husbands until the fighting stopped. It apparently worked, too, though the more I think about it the more I think this was just an episode of Red Shoe Diaries or something. Still, seems like a solid game plan to me.

[Atom_basher]

Hmm, female Illuminati? That could work. I seem to remember a story about ancient Rome where a group of women were disgusted with their men constantly going off to war. They decided to band together and withhold sex from their husbands until the fighting stopped. It apparently worked, too, though the more I think about it the more I think this was just an episode of Red Shoe Diaries or something. Still, seems like a solid game plan to me.

that sounds good in theory, but you know what happens when powerful men's wives withhold sex? they get it from the dozens of other chicks who will have sex with them

[MrHooligan13]

Hmm, female Illuminati? That could work. I seem to remember a story about ancient Rome where a group of women were disgusted with their men constantly going off to war. They decided to band together and withhold sex from their husbands until the fighting stopped. It apparently worked, too, though the more I think about it the more I think this was just an episode of Red Shoe Diaries or something. Still, seems like a solid game plan to me.


Yeah that was a Roman play titled Lysistrata... I just took a comedy/satire class...:D

[jackolover]

It seems to me these has to be high functionbased and a bit distrustful too. So my guess would be:

Moondragon
Black Widow
Emma Frost
Tarantula
Scarlet Witch
Snowbird

I do like Tarantula and the Scarlet Witch, although they both may be contraversial, in theat we don't know near enough about Taratula, and everybody hates the Witch right now.

I'm intrigued why so many picked Moondragon. Is she all that powerful, and does she have a connection with Earth at all?

[kal_el21]

This is a very interesting idea. I would have to go with:

Sue Richards
Storm
Moondragon
Medusa
She-Hulk
Elektra

I chose Elektra since she commands the most powerful underwold orginization in the MU. I think She-Hulk is smart enough to be in it on her own but I think it would be relly interesting if she reported back to her cousin and they acted in the orginization together without anybody knowing. He would influence her but not completely

[jackolover]

This is a very interesting idea. I would have to go with:

Sue Richards
Storm
Moondragon
Medusa
She-Hulk
Elektra

I chose Elektra since she commands the most powerful underwold orginization in the MU. I think She-Hulk is smart enough to be in it on her own but I think it would be relly interesting if she reported back to her cousin and they acted in the orginization together without anybody knowing. He would influence her but not completely

This list of members becomes freakier by the minute. I don't know about Sue now. She seems a little soft for this kind of thing. Who is the most badass female in the USA at this very moment? That is who should head up this list.

I am looking now at -

(Badass USA)
Black Widow
Tarantula
Scarlet Witch
Electra
She-Hulk (and her coniving cousin Bruce Green)

Nobody seems to dispute Medusa. Is she such a given, just because she has Black Bolts ear? What credentials does she bring to the table?

[Atom_basher]

This is a very interesting idea. I would have to go with:

Sue Richards
Storm
Moondragon
Medusa
She-Hulk
Elektra

I chose Elektra since she commands the most powerful underwold orginization in the MU. I think She-Hulk is smart enough to be in it on her own but I think it would be relly interesting if she reported back to her cousin and they acted in the orginization together without anybody knowing. He would influence her but not completely


AH i like that i take out sersi of my list and add elektra

[TotalWorldDomination]

hmmm... In the vein of the original Illuminati, it would have to be a group that would be willing to work covertly and subversivly, while influencing the largest group possible...

Emma Frost (Mutants)
Electra (Underworld)
Lilandra (the Shi'ar)
Thena (the Eternals)
The Invisble Woman ("Traditional" superheros)
Jennifer Kale (Magic)

[Atom_basher]

I would say Lilandra would be a good choice if it weren't for the fact that i don't think she could be realistically added to the story

[jackolover]

hmmm... In the vein of the original Illuminati, it would have to be a group that would be willing to work covertly and subversivly, while influencing the largest group possible...

The leader. I'll make it easy for you. Who is the most hated woman in comics right now. I know I hate her for what she did to Spiderman in NA17.

[shanejayell]

*is amused*

The question I ask is, why would the ladies form a Illuminati in the first place? It seems a very "guy" thing to do.

[jackolover]

*is amused*

The question I ask is, why would the ladies form a Illuminati in the first place? It seems a very "guy" thing to do.

The guy thing (CW) is very brutal and it can be done differently. Maybe the ladies want something less harsh on the people they respect, not the Stark solution - 'hunt 'em down, if they don't cooperate'. Not the Thor cyberfreak. Not the TBolts. I think a Female Illuminati would mount a real challenge to the Stark Initiative, and would make the guys think about what they are doing. Right now, they're are thinking with their male sex organs. You saw Sues reaction. She could have done this better.

[Deus ex Chris]

*is amused*

The question I ask is, why would the ladies form a Illuminati in the first place? It seems a very "guy" thing to do.

To counter the male Illuminati?

[Atom_basher]

*is amused*

The question I ask is, why would the ladies form a Illuminati in the first place? It seems a very "guy" thing to do.

guys have frats chicks have sororities

[Baltho08]

My version of a female Illuminati would be these awesome, spectacular babes.

;) :p

Susan Richards aka Invisible Woman(wife of Reed Richards, member of the Fantastic Four)
Namora(cousin of Namor the Sub-Mariner)
Medusa(wife and cousin of Black Bolt)
Clea(wife of Sorcerer Supreme, Doctor Strange)
Emma Frost(headmistress of the Xavier Institute)
Jocasta(former wife of the Ultron, reserved member of the Avengers)

reserved member
Storm(wife of the Black Panther and queen of Wakanda)

Well, that's that.

Late'.

Good list. Add She-hulk, and it's about right.
Peace.

[Phoenix]

I think the women of the Illuminati would have to be fiery. I think the best people for it... not neccesarily only these... but these for sure:

Sue Storm
Jean Grey (If alive) but Emma Frost in her place.
I could see Felecia Hardy there too!
Natasha Romanov
Maybe Roma
Sharon Carter
Sage would be awesome, but no need really for 2 x-peeps. Eh, well maybe!!!!

So yeah, I think these lovelies would be great!

[kal_el21]

I could see Felecia Hardy there too

Why? Not that I disagree, I'm just curious as to why.

[Frostbite883]

Good list. Add She-hulk, and it's about right.
Peace.

I don't think She-Hulk wouldn't constitute much for my female Illuminati IMO.

[Flâneur]

Emma Frost (Xavier Institute, Frost Enterprises)
Maria Hill (SHIELD)
Thena (Eternals)
Saturnyne (Otherworld, along with access to all the money in Ross' bank accounts and depending on how certain stories play out - Hellfire Club)
Talisman (Magic)

I found it hard to write this kind of list because so many of the female powers in the marvel universe are significant because of who they're married to, rather than what they bring to the table themselves.

[kirkindenver]

well I'd go with some of the more "Power Players" in the Marvel Universe...



Sue Richards- Second in command of the Fantastic Four and the voice of reason behind the team

Medusa- Queen of the inhumans and has the ear of Black Bolt, so she often becomes the voice of her king

Clea- Socceress Supreme of the Dark Dimension, former love of Doctor Strange, she has access and contacts that may very well dwarf Doc Strange's

Storm- Currently the most visible member of the X-men, and wife of the Black Panther and Queen of Wakanda. She has the potental to be the most politiclly influential woman in the Marvel Universe

Sage- The X-men's resident super genius, with her network of contacts alone she is a treasure trove of information

Vindicator- Co-leader of Canada's super team Alpha Flight, Heather Hudson is an untapped sourse of leadership and power

[element13]

heh...i love this idea...mine would be....

storm: queen of Wakanda, Powerhouse, and has untapped resources

Sue Storm: powerhouse, and represents the F4

Namorita: Royal Atlantean...nuff said

Moondragon: badass, and literally can know everything that's going on

Elektra: Leader of Marvels biggest underground Orginization

Medusa: represents the inhumans, plus a total badass

She-hulk: represents the Law, and can get a lot of outside information

Pulsar: WORKED FOR H.A.T.E, and is a powerhouse

[Camron Amaya]

No offense to the ladies but a female Illuminati wouldn't be nearly ass effective or important as the male. Really nobody would care.

[Morw]

Best would be a illuminati with booth sexes.

[Kirk G]

heh...i love this idea...mine would be....

storm: queen of Wakanda, Powerhouse, and has untapped resources

Sue Storm: powerhouse, and represents the F4

Namorita: Royal Atlantean...nuff said

Moondragon: badass, and literally can know everything that's going on

Elektra: Leader of Marvels biggest underground Orginization

Medusa: represents the inhumans, plus a total badass

She-hulk: represents the Law, and can get a lot of outside information

Pulsar: WORKED FOR H.A.T.E, and is a powerhouse


Hey, guys,
This was done once before....
It was approximately Avengers #82, volume one... and they were called "The Lady Liberators", IIRC.... (PS: Not only was it the first appearance of the halloween costume parade in the pages of Avengers....a long ongoing tradition... but it might ALSO have been the documentation of the first meeting of Avengers scribe Roger Stern with his future wife Carmilia!!!!!):cool:

[jackolover]

Emma Frost (Xavier Institute, Frost Enterprises)
Maria Hill (SHIELD)
Thena (Eternals)
Saturnyne (Otherworld, along with access to all the money in Ross' bank accounts and depending on how certain stories play out - Hellfire Club)
Talisman (Magic)

I found it hard to write this kind of list because so many of the female powers in the marvel universe are significant because of who they're married to, rather than what they bring to the table themselves.


First Maria Hill! I like her.

As to your concern about what female brings what to the table, and not who she's married too, I agree with another poster that these females have to have some clandestine dimension. That makes Hill and Widow first choices. Maybe puts Agent 13 in that mix, but these are all unpowered. You have to have the powered population in this. I still go back to when Sue Storm reached for that disc with '42' on it, and Reed grabs her wrist saying thats classified. From who? Why isn't his wife trusted enough? That's what I think the females of this group should be like Women who should have been consulted. Women who would take the SHRA as serios as the men. What are the men afraid of, not consulting the woman half of the powers?

I think Hill has done enough to make her serious for the fight.
Sue was the first one slapped aside by her man, and is the most affronted
Who else has an investment in super powers? I think Storm has shown she has a stand on SHRA.

Using this criterian, who else falls in to this world-wide alliance?

Is there a Captain Britain Queen these day?

[jackolover]

No offense to the ladies but a female Illuminati wouldn't be nearly ass effective or important as the male. Really nobody would care.

I don't think we are assembling a female Illuminat as such. This group is to counter the mens group, and I think if you put womens activists into an arena with the current Illuminati, there would be some fur to fly. Just look at Reeds trouble with Sue in CW4. Don't get on the wrong side of the bitches, man. They can make hell, if you don't get them on side.

[jackolover]

(PS: Not only was it the first appearance of the halloween costume parade in the pages of Avengers....a long ongoing tradition... but it might ALSO have been the documentation of the first meeting of Avengers scribe Roger Stern with his future wife Carmilia!!!!!):cool:

Halloween parade? I just read FL 2, and a reporter refered to Starfire as parading around in a Halloween costume. Was this a reference to the Avengers tradition?

[notintheface]

Two things you're all forgetting:

1. That the biggest "register or else" advocate has been SHIELD director Maria Hill, a woman.

2. All these suggestions for female Illuminati members on this thread and no one mentions Carol Danvers/Ms Marvel? She'd be one of my first picks.

[Deus ex Chris]

2. All these suggestions for female Illuminati members on this thread and no one mentions Carol Danvers/Ms Marvel? She'd be one of my first picks.
I guess you didn't read the whole thread. ;)

[jackolover]

Two things you're all forgetting:

1. That the biggest "register or else" advocate has been SHIELD director Maria Hill, a woman.

2. All these suggestions for female Illuminati members on this thread and no one mentions Carol Danvers/Ms Marvel? She'd be one of my first picks.

Danvers has been mentioned.

As for Maria, she is a suggestion because she has the moxy. Whether she makes an appearance on this hypothetical group is beside the point. She does kick arse.

[Homosensual]

Invisble Woman
Storm
Elektra
Crystal
Magik
Black Widow
Moondragon

[Grazzt]

I'd add Heather Hudson. But I'm biased.

[Homosensual]

Heather's cool, but for a group like this Snowbird or Talisman would make more sense

[Siddon]

All Mutants all the time, rep's from each team (minus Bru's space team) also no Rogue I would prefer to have Mystique working with the Illuminati under Emma's request and against Rogue. Also I would like three schools old (Jean, Storm) new school (Emma, Layla) and the spy spectrum (Sage: Good, Mystique: Bad, Val: Starkian).

Jean Grey - Chairwoman - covert and alive
Storm - International Affairs
Sage - Logistics
Val Cooper - Human/Shield op
Mystique - Covert Op's
Layla Miller - Knows stuff
Emma Frost - Headmistress

[Trolt]

thats a lot of mutants...

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Interesting concept - rather than the traditional combat-oriented team-up, a group based more on leadership and ingenuity than powers. A think tank, more or less - a group that would have the brains to come up with solutions, and the moral authority to get other heroes to listen to what they say.

So, after careful consideration:

Sue Storm: Founding FF member, often touted as potentially most-powerful-on-Earth, wife, mother - she's got a lot of bases covered. Putting aside her powers (which are substantial, but not really relevant to the Illuminati in any direct way), Sue is a versatile thinker with a lot of experience at being the glue holding together a group of people with wildly different perspectives. Her public profile as a respected, experienced hero carries a lot of weight too.

She-Hulk: Former FF member, former Avenger, top-flight lawyer. Arguably if someone like Jennifer Walters had had a hand in designing the SHRA, rather than the politicians who ended up doing it, things would be in a better state than they are. Besides her profile as a respected hero, Jen's legal skills, particularly in regard to superhumans, are second to none. In addition she's a member of the Magistrati, and therefore an informal representative of the highest court in the universe.

Emma Frost: Headmistress, de facto leader of America's lawful mutants. I'm not especially familiar with her beyond her appearances in Civil War and its tie-ins, but she seems a natural choice, as a voice for the mutant sub-community of superhumans, and as an experienced leader and administrator.

Medusa: Former FF member, wife of Black Bolt - and as I read what I've read of her, not inconsequentially involved in her husband's rule. The Inhumans represent a powerful and distinct group of superhumans, and for many reasons it makes sense to have a voice from them present. (And unlike the men's version, at least she'll actually have a voice. You'd think Tony could've sprung for an etch-a-sketch for Black Bolt at their meetings, or something.) Additionally her association with the Four demonstrates a non-isolationist perspective that could be exceedingly valuable in keeping the Inhumans on side.

Maria Hill: SHIELD commander, independent thinker, and demonstrably willing to be devil's advocate. (Admittedly I'm taking the best view of her varied appearances, but if you wanted to you could probably dredge up some storyline that'd rule anyone out of membership, so might as well be optimistic.) Any group like this needs someone who has no reservations in voicing unpalatable thoughts and ideas - Hill's shown that when she thinks she's got a point, she has no qualms about saying so, and damn anyone in her way. At the same time, in some of her more flattering appearances of late, she's demonstrated a very level-headed willingness to critically appraise her own position, and acknowledge her own shortcomings. Also, she's not a superhero, and can thus serve as a voice for ordinary people, helping to legitimise the group in their eyes somewhat.

Those five would be my 'security council', in essence, and a lot of what they'd do would be making and keeping contacts to each bring a multiplicity of voices and perspectives to the table. I think it'd be more valuable, though, to keep the group itself about this size, no larger - except possibly with the addition of one more, from Atlantis, about which I know far too little to even speculate (despite Namor's obvious superhero status, I'm not even sure Atlantis as a whole needs a representative).

[jackolover]

Sue Storm: Founding FF member, often touted as potentially most-powerful-on-Earth, wife, mother - she's got a lot of bases covered. Putting aside her powers (which are substantial, but not really relevant to the Illuminati in any direct way), Sue is a versatile thinker with a lot of experience at being the glue holding together a group of people with wildly different perspectives. Her public profile as a respected, experienced hero carries a lot of weight too.

You make a good point about Sue being a glue to hold the group together. As yet there does not appear to be a leader or Chairwoman.

She-Hulk: Former FF member, former Avenger, top-flight lawyer. Arguably if someone like Jennifer Walters had had a hand in designing the SHRA, rather than the politicians who ended up doing it, things would be in a better state than they are. Besides her profile as a respected hero, Jen's legal skills, particularly in regard to superhumans, are second to none. In addition she's a member of the Magistrati, and therefore an informal representative of the highest court in the universe.

She-Hulk as a legal mind is less obvious to me. I don't know how she would have framed an SHRA or an alternative. It appears to me there needs to be a representative of the Super-Hero Co-ordination Division, like the woman in CW X-men 1-4, Dr Cooper, or, that woman, Dallas Riordon from TBolts, in the wheel chair, who is teamed with Gyrich. These two women would have the background to formulate a long term plan.

Emma Frost: Headmistress, de facto leader of America's lawful mutants. I'm not especially familiar with her beyond her appearances in Civil War and its tie-ins, but she seems a natural choice, as a voice for the mutant sub-community of superhumans, and as an experienced leader and administrator.

I'm not very trusting of her. Though she is currently a representative of mutants, I'm not sure she is independant of the Hellfire Club. I would definately go for Jean Grey if she reappears, although I would have to bow to more knowledgable among you on mutants. I can't pick the best representative.

Medusa: Former FF member, wife of Black Bolt - and as I read what I've read of her, not inconsequentially involved in her husband's rule. The Inhumans represent a powerful and distinct group of superhumans, and for many reasons it makes sense to have a voice from them present. (And unlike the men's version, at least she'll actually have a voice. You'd think Tony could've sprung for an etch-a-sketch for Black Bolt at their meetings, or something.) Additionally her association with the Four demonstrates a non-isolationist perspective that could be exceedingly valuable in keeping the Inhumans on side.

Medusa seems to have come into money rather than worked her way up in the game. That's the way I see it. She is the Royal Family, so maybe she has credentials.

Maria Hill: SHIELD commander, independent thinker, and demonstrably willing to be devil's advocate. (Admittedly I'm taking the best view of her varied appearances, but if you wanted to you could probably dredge up some storyline that'd rule anyone out of membership, so might as well be optimistic.) Any group like this needs someone who has no reservations in voicing unpalatable thoughts and ideas - Hill's shown that when she thinks she's got a point, she has no qualms about saying so, and damn anyone in her way. At the same time, in some of her more flattering appearances of late, she's demonstrated a very level-headed willingness to critically appraise her own position, and acknowledge her own shortcomings. Also, she's not a superhero, and can thus serve as a voice for ordinary people, helping to legitimise the group in their eyes somewhat

Hill is the logical choice even though she's human. I see her clashing with all these women, merely on personalities alone, but she can think on her feet, like Black Widow.

I wouldn't put Sharon Carter into the mix because she is so anti- supers. I think she needs her own comic so we can see how she handles the big picture. So far, she has been a grunt on the ground, so who knows.

You bring a nice refreshing approach to the debate, Miss F.

We've now found out that Tony's plan (SHRA) was instituted because of Project Wide awake, and look what happened when he didn't consult with anyone, and just set his plan in motion regardless.

I assume the ladies would also know about this Project wide awake, so what would they do differently, that Tony didn't do? I'm not sure the Female Illuminati would have had much time, once Stamford occurred, so would they have had a plan on the books as a contingency, and when the congressional hearings started, they could have paraded out their plan? Or would the ladies have started early, before a Stamford occurred, and sounded out everyone of importance, about registering all the capes? I imagine all the boys would have felt their machoism a bit hurt, having their female counterparts taking the initiative. How would this have panned out?

[bulbasteve]

We've now found out that Tony's plan (SHRA) was instituted because of Project Wide awake, and look what happened when he didn't consult with anyone, and just set his plan in motion regardless.

I assume the ladies would also know about this Project wide awake, so what would they do differently, that Tony didn't do? I'm not sure the Female Illuminati would have had much time, once Stamford occurred, so would they have had a plan on the books as a contingency, and when the congressional hearings started, they could have paraded out their plan? Or would the ladies have started early, before a Stamford occurred, and sounded out everyone of importance, about registering all the capes? I imagine all the boys would have felt their machoism a bit hurt, having their female counterparts taking the initiative. How would this have panned out?

Well Hill being director of SHIELD I would imagine would be privy to all the same stuff Stark got back when he was Sec Def. So we kinda know where Hill went already, and she was one of the major ones taking an initiative (ok maybe too much initiative with Cap). Although I don't know when we last got a checkup of where her loyalties lie, back when she was introduced she was pretty much a lacky of the President, but then she disobeyed him in terms of nuking the avengers and has been drafting people left and right for god knows what. (but she's my girl anyway...rock on Hill)

As for the list, I gotta agree with Kitty on most of them. But I would add Ms. Marvel in there. She seems to be from interviews co-leading the Avengers along with Tony, and in general is being groomed to be a major player. So I think she deserves a spot.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

She-Hulk as a legal mind is less obvious to me. I don't know how she would have framed an SHRA or an alternative. It appears to me there needs to be a representative of the Super-Hero Co-ordination Division, like the woman in CW X-men 1-4, Dr Cooper, or, that woman, Dallas Riordon from TBolts, in the wheel chair, who is teamed with Gyrich.
I considered Dallas and her ilk, but in the end I don't think they'd work. My view is that the Illuminati's purpose is to be a voice of calm authority for and to superhumans - to address concerns that superhumans have, and concerns that other people have about superhumans, and to offer solutions that'll be listened to at the highest levels of both superhuman and 'civilian' authority.

So while there may be others more fully versed in law (more regarding the politics of law; She-Hulk's pretty accomplished in case law, given her history at and prior to GLK&H I don't think there's many as familiar with superhuman legal issues as she is), the thing She-Hulk has than people like Dallas don't is moral authority. If she says a policy is legally sound, people (especially heroes) will listen, because she has the history as a hero to be trusted and respected. That's a microcosm of what the Illuminati's real purpose is - yes, they should be formulating solutions to problems, but their most important function is to legitimise those solutions: so that to the superhuman community in general the proposal isn't just "Here's what we should do," but "Here's what this very respected and trusted group says we should do."

I'm not very trusting of her. Though she is currently a representative of mutants, I'm not sure she is independant of the Hellfire Club.
I'm not especially familiar with her - as I said, more of less just her passing cameos in Civil War titles. Obviously one of the first priorities the Illuminati would have is full disclosure of their own affiliations, to ensure there's no skeletons in their personal closets that could come out to bite them, or each other.

Medusa seems to have come into money rather than worked her way up in the game.
Perhaps, but what sets her apart from Storm (who I also considered) is that she's been doing it longer. So far Storm's contribution to 'ruling' Wakanda has just been tagging along with her husband and offering a word here and there - that'll no doubt change with time, but at present I don't think she has the experience as a political leader to offer anything especially valuable. Medusa has been co-ruler of the Inhumans for long enough to have thoroughly understood the complexities involved in the position. Even though she didn't rise to the position under her own political power, she's been there for a long time, and has the experience.

I assume the ladies would also know about this Project wide awake, so what would they do differently, that Tony didn't do?
I think the key difference - at least if I were writing it - would be that they wouldn't be a secret group. That killed the whole concept of the Illuminati (thanks a bunch Namor, you jerk) - without public exposure the Illuminati can't wield any kind of moral authority. If the Illuminati had been public all along, using their combined intelligence to mediate and resolve disputes, and offer solutions to problems both strategic and social, by the time Stamford rolled around - assuming no-one had undertaken some kind of hero training procedure by then - the Illuminati would effectively be the go-to group for anything to do with superhumans. Washington would recognise that anything they did without Illuminati approval would meet strong resistance from superheroes in general, so they'd bend over backwards to get the Illuminati to approve - which puts the Illuminati in a position not just to get on side with the SHRA, but to define the SHRA. Given the options of the 'full draft' SHRA we have, without Illuminati support, or a 'full registration, voluntary draft' SHRA with the Illuminati stamp of approval, Washington may well have opted for the latter.

That's assuming that everything up to that point unfolded as it did in the real MU - a public Illuminati probably could have avoided this kind of situation from arising, if not by preventing disasters themselves (because no-one can cover all the possible mistakes that can be made), at least by being a visible leadership for the superhero community. Half the problem with Stamford was that the public perceived a lack of leadership among superheroes - when they asked themselves who would take action to stop another disaster like this from happening, there was no answer, so the government had to create an answer, in the form of the SHRA.

I would add Ms. Marvel in there. She seems to be from interviews co-leading the Avengers along with Tony, and in general is being groomed to be a major player.
The thing with her - and I say this as a big fan of her - is that I don't see any real leadership potential in her. She's a good front-page hero - powerful, courageous, well-meaning (if occasionally scatterbrained, but like the rest of us she's only 'human') - but the Illuminati are, or should be, a think tank, an advisory council, not a strike force. Carol is a kick-ass commando, more or less - until and unless she gets more experience of leadership, both practical and political, her place is carrying out policy, not formulating it.

[jackolover]

I considered Dallas and her ilk, but in the end I don't think they'd work. My view is that the Illuminati's purpose is to be a voice of calm authority for and to superhumans - to address concerns that superhumans have, and concerns that other people have about superhumans, and to offer solutions that'll be listened to at the highest levels of both superhuman and 'civilian' authority.

So while there may be others more fully versed in law (more regarding the politics of law; She-Hulk's pretty accomplished in case law, given her history at and prior to GLK&H I don't think there's many as familiar with superhuman legal issues as she is), the thing She-Hulk has than people like Dallas don't is moral authority. If she says a policy is legally sound, people (especially heroes) will listen, because she has the history as a hero to be trusted and respected. That's a microcosm of what the Illuminati's real purpose is - yes, they should be formulating solutions to problems, but their most important function is to legitimise those solutions: so that to the superhuman community in general the proposal isn't just "Here's what we should do," but "Here's what this very respected and trusted group says we should do."


I'm not especially familiar with her - as I said, more of less just her passing cameos in Civil War titles. Obviously one of the first priorities the Illuminati would have is full disclosure of their own affiliations, to ensure there's no skeletons in their personal closets that could come out to bite them, or each other.


Perhaps, but what sets her apart from Storm (who I also considered) is that she's been doing it longer. So far Storm's contribution to 'ruling' Wakanda has just been tagging along with her husband and offering a word here and there - that'll no doubt change with time, but at present I don't think she has the experience as a political leader to offer anything especially valuable. Medusa has been co-ruler of the Inhumans for long enough to have thoroughly understood the complexities involved in the position. Even though she didn't rise to the position under her own political power, she's been there for a long time, and has the experience.


I think the key difference - at least if I were writing it - would be that they wouldn't be a secret group. That killed the whole concept of the Illuminati (thanks a bunch Namor, you jerk) - without public exposure the Illuminati can't wield any kind of moral authority. If the Illuminati had been public all along, using their combined intelligence to mediate and resolve disputes, and offer solutions to problems both strategic and social, by the time Stamford rolled around - assuming no-one had undertaken some kind of hero training procedure by then - the Illuminati would effectively be the go-to group for anything to do with superhumans. Washington would recognise that anything they did without Illuminati approval would meet strong resistance from superheroes in general, so they'd bend over backwards to get the Illuminati to approve - which puts the Illuminati in a position not just to get on side with the SHRA, but to define the SHRA. Given the options of the 'full draft' SHRA we have, without Illuminati support, or a 'full registration, voluntary draft' SHRA with the Illuminati stamp of approval, Washington may well have opted for the latter.

That's assuming that everything up to that point unfolded as it did in the real MU - a public Illuminati probably could have avoided this kind of situation from arising, if not by preventing disasters themselves (because no-one can cover all the possible mistakes that can be made), at least by being a visible leadership for the superhero community. Half the problem with Stamford was that the public perceived a lack of leadership among superheroes - when they asked themselves who would take action to stop another disaster like this from happening, there was no answer, so the government had to create an answer, in the form of the SHRA.


The thing with her - and I say this as a big fan of her - is that I don't see any real leadership potential in her. She's a good front-page hero - powerful, courageous, well-meaning (if occasionally scatterbrained, but like the rest of us she's only 'human') - but the Illuminati are, or should be, a think tank, an advisory council, not a strike force. Carol is a kick-ass commando, more or less - until and unless she gets more experience of leadership, both practical and political, her place is carrying out policy, not formulating it.

Thanks for the in-depth overview you gave us of the role and perception of the Female Illuminati. Much appreciated.

I considered the FI to be similar to the guys, but of cause, I'm coming from a guys perspective. Women do things a bit different to the Tony Stark method. A fully publicised Female Illuminati would present it's problems to the guys, but putting that all aside, having a go-between for superhero issues does make sense, as long as the government does not become suspicious of a conspiracy by the superhumans. Putting that also aside, a display of the effectiveness of a Female Illuminati in an example case would certainly strenghthen their cause. And, as you say, Miss Kitty, SHRA might have been implimented sooner and with less conflict, if handled with less haste, than from a catalyst event.

I hadn't considered all the permutations of what you considered to be the Modus Operendi of this group, which would be a softer, open function. I still considered the FI to operate in secret, and to impliment behind the scenes through leaders and functionaries. I had visions of Sue and company preparing plans for a forthcoming Project wide awake, but really, if it came from some secret source, the government was always going to be suspicious of the plan.

In the Tony Stark option we have today, the government was complicit in the plan and in control of the implimentation, not Tony Stark, so the government would not be suspicious of the plan. It makes more sense, your option for the Female Illuminati, that the government would be more likely to agree.

[bulbasteve]

The thing with her - and I say this as a big fan of her - is that I don't see any real leadership potential in her. She's a good front-page hero - powerful, courageous, well-meaning (if occasionally scatterbrained, but like the rest of us she's only 'human') - but the Illuminati are, or should be, a think tank, an advisory council, not a strike force. Carol is a kick-ass commando, more or less - until and unless she gets more experience of leadership, both practical and political, her place is carrying out policy, not formulating it.

Well I think its more a problem of the leadership part being on the back burner for so long, but look at her resume. U.S. Air Force Colonel, CIA Agent, NASA Security Chief, Novelist, Magazine Editor, Chief of Tactical Operations and Superhuman Liaison for the Department of Homeland Security, Future Co-leader of the Avengers and Superhuman trainer. This compared to Sue who's non-FF activities boils down to once being a substitute teacher.

[Kirk G]

My version of a female Illuminati would be these awesome, spectacular babes.

;) :p

Susan Richards aka Invisible Woman(wife of Reed Richards, member of the Fantastic Four)
Namora(cousin of Namor the Sub-Mariner)
Medusa(wife and cousin of Black Bolt)
Clea(wife of Sorcerer Supreme, Doctor Strange)
Emma Frost(headmistress of the Xavier Institute)
Jocasta(former wife of the Ultron, reserved member of the Avengers)

reserved member
Storm(wife of the Black Panther and queen of Wakanda)

Later.

Has anyone ever seen Lisitratta, the greek play? This is beginning to sound a lot like the plot of the women to withhold sex from their men to keep them from warring...:D

[Mark Thorson]

maybe she-hulk would be an option too.:)

Nah...they'd just shoot her into space. :p

[Tequilamokinbrd]

Emma Frost
Invisible Woman
Storm
She-Hulk
Black Widow
Silver Sable
Medusa
Spider Woman


Yeah, now THAT's a group. Brains, brawn, beauty, and can certainly give their male counterparts a run for their money.

[corinthian_noire]

Callisto a mutant leader and has underworld contacts. forgive the pun

Vallerie copper.. not perhaps a superhero but has military contacts

Phylocke.. has connections to the overworld and was captain britain for a time

susan storm and storm of the xmen would also be a good choice

[Blackcat]

Ms. Marvel (for Avengers as Ironman is)
Sue Richards (for the FF as Reed is)
Storm (for Africa as BP is)
Valerie Cooper (for humans)
Magik II aka Daytripper (for magicals)
Emma Frost (for the X-Men as Xavier is)
Sage (for Europe)

[stingerman]

The male Illuminati wouldnt let there be a female illuminati, else they (males) wouldnt be Illuminati. Get it? Like the masons not letting females into their lodge!

[jackolover]

The male Illuminati wouldnt let there be a female illuminati, else they (males) wouldnt be Illuminati. Get it? Like the masons not letting females into their lodge!

What I'm saying is the Female Illuminati aren't the respective Female balance to the Males. What if the FI are the only Illuminati? No male countergroup. So Tony, Reed, etc, never got together, the girls did.

[stingerman]

What I'm saying is the Female Illuminati aren't the respective Female balance to the Males. What if the FI are the only Illuminati? No male countergroup. So Tony, Reed, etc, never got together, the girls did.

The girls arent smart enough to do that. hahahah!

[jackolover]

The girls arent smart enough to do that. hahahah!

Ooooo, that'll get back

[jackolover]

Looking at the Illuminati, again, you could make a case for this renewed lineup

Black Bolt and Medusa
Reed and Sue
Panther and Storm
Namor and Dorma (deceased)
Hulk and Ceira (deceased)

These look like they can represent the Planet earth in any encounter involving Invasion.

With Dorma now deceased, Namora could fill in
There doesn't seem to be an obvious replacement for Ceira.

[Clea]

The girls arent smart enough to do that. hahahah!

????

:eek:

[schmevil]

The male Illuminati wouldnt let there be a female illuminati, else they (males) wouldnt be Illuminati. Get it? Like the masons not letting females into their lodge!

I think you're projecting your own desire to have a fandom free from threatening girl cooties. Other than that, your comment is kind of astonishingly sexist, even for a comics message board. The male Illuminati would no longer be Illuminati if they shared their power with females? Um, right.

The girls arent smart enough to do that. hahahah!

I second Clea's :eek:

[DaeJi]

A female Illuminati would fail as badly as the male one did; just because women do things differently doesn't mean that they do them better. It just means they screw up in different ways. I think a secret society trying to pull the strings behind events is just a bad idea, whether they be men, women, or both.

[Sanctus]

1. Sue Storms
2. Ms. Marvel
3. Ororo Munroe (she is more of a team player than her husband)
4. Medusa
5. Sersi
6. Hawkeyes

[mattbib]

I think a female Illuminati wouldn't presume to make many of the bad decisions the male version did. Like the male originals it would include wide representation if influential women, but they wouldn't exclude more idealistic heroes like the males did Captain America, even if it meant opposition to extreme decisions.


Invisible Woman
Wasp
Emma Frost
Namora
Storm
Medusa
Thena
Amanda Sefton
Maria Hill (SHIELD liason)

[jackolover]

I think a female Illuminati wouldn't presume to make many of the bad decisions the male version did. Like the male originals it would include wide representation if influential women, but they wouldn't exclude more idealistic heroes like the males did Captain America, even if it meant opposition to extreme decisions.


Invisible Woman
Wasp
Emma Frost
Namora
Storm
Medusa
Thena
Amanda Sefton
Maria Hill (SHIELD liason)


I think a female Illuminati wouldn't go off planet, for starters. Would the likes of Sue Storm agree to send Bruce Banner off Planet, for example. I agree, the females would handle things more in line with negotiated settlement, rather than termination.

Maria Hill is another thing altogether. She is SHIELD career woman, and takes orders. I think Hill would see Terminations as a favorable option, in her mind. Maria would push any decision by the group, to include force, but females tend to talk rather than to punch.