The Irredeemable Ant-Man #3 - *SPOILERS*

[Young Avenger]

Wow, Eric is real turd. Trying to take advantage of Veronica emotional state so he can rebound and get her to sleep with him (on Chris's grave no less), and sneaking into Beth's apartment to watch her shower.

I liked that he tried to help the woman from her abuse husband. He'll have to learn to pull his punches so he won't punch a hole into someone and having them die of blood loss.

Ant from the recap page needs a name.

[ultramandingo]

Wow, Eric is real turd.... sneaking into Beth's apartment to watch her shower.



"with great power comes sneaking onto the victoria secrets changing room"

[Haunt]

Wow, Eric is real turd. Trying to take advantage of Veronica emotional state so he can rebound and get her to sleep with him (on Chris's grave no less), and sneaking into Beth's apartment to watch her shower.

i thought the last part was kind of funny if totally inappropriate.

I liked that he tried to help the woman from her abuse husband. He'll have to learn to pull his punches so he won't punch a hole into someone and having them die of blood loss.

that's a dangerous power there.

Ant from the recap page needs a name.

i callz him 'Bitey.'

[Young Avenger]

i thought the last part was kind of funny if totally inappropriate.

Though Eric is a turd for doing it I have to admit, I would have done the same thing if I had an Ant-Man suit.

that's a dangerous power there.

I think the suit gives him advanced strength. A full sized punch making a hole in someone's neck? Why wasn't Eric a security agent? An ability like that could come in handy.

i callz him 'Bitey.'

He'll probably earn that name next issue going by the cover.

[Haunt]

Though Eric is a turd for doing it I have to admit, I would have done the same thing if I had an Ant-Man suit.

i half expected him to only look for a place to sleep. should have known, he'd do something despicable instead. poor Beth. now she'll probably have to go through a grueling SHIELD interrogation.

I think the suit gives him advanced strength. A full sized punch making a hole in someone's neck? Why wasn't Eric a security agent? An ability like that could come in handy.

no enhanced strength. he says it right before punching the guy. the difference is that you have a comparitively large amount force being delivered by a very small object. it's like being shot point blank instead of being punched because of his size. the Scott Lang accidentally knocked someone out just by hitching a ride on their shoulder, in his first outing as Ant-Man. like i've said in other conversations about how lame his powers seem, being that small and having the strength of a full-sized man would feel a lot like having the powers of the Hulk. note that he also talks about being able to super-jump. i about lost it when that blood started geyser-ing from the abuser's neck. ewww.

He'll probably earn that name next issue going by the cover.

lol! that would be great if it were the narrator attacking him. that ant has spunk. i'm more interested in seeing the big fight between he and Mitch. i also wonder what villain name Mitch will use now that he's sporting half a face.

[ultramandingo]

......he still has a long way to go to become as big a jerk-off as pym - wife beating , ultron , giant shoulder pads , ect.

[Young Avenger]

i half expected him to only look for a place to sleep. should have known, he'd do something despicable instead. poor Beth. now she'll probably have to go through a grueling SHIELD interrogation.

What's worse is that she only has a towel on. I don't think SHIELD would be nice enough to let her get dressed.

no enhanced strength. he says it right before punching the guy. the difference is that you have a comparitively large amount force being delivered by a very small object. it's like being shot point blank instead of being punched because of his size. the Scott Lang accidentally knocked someone out just by hitching a ride on their shoulder, in his first outing as Ant-Man. like i've said in other conversations about how lame his powers seem, being that small and having the strength of a full-sized man would feel a lot like having the powers of the Hulk. note that he also talks about being able to super-jump. i about lost it when that blood started geyser-ing from the abuser's neck. ewww.

I didn't know that.

that would be great if it were the narrator attacking him. that ant has spunk. i'm more interested in seeing the big fight between he and Mitch. i also wonder what villain name Mitch will use now that he's sporting half a face.

In the letters column Kirkman said that villains are cliche and want's something different. I think Mitch will be fear by other agents and have a cool nickname.

[Jack]

i half expected him to only look for a place to sleep. should have known, he'd do something despicable instead. poor Beth. now she'll probably have to go through a grueling SHIELD interrogation.I think he was mainly there to sleep, he just decided to take advantage of the situation, too. Perfectly reasonable - if kinda despicable.

And hey, Eric saved Nick Fury's life. The biggest hook in this series, for me, is that Eric does sometimes do the right thing, even if it doesn't work out for him. He's not just a dirtbag, and he's not just an unlucky nice guy, but kinda in the middle. And I like that.

[PastePotPete]

I'd say this was another great issue.

The behavior of the Irredeemable Ant Man gets more and more repugnant and I love it! I guess for me, repugnant = attractive!

He hits on his (dead) best friend's girl TWICE. Once on top of his best friend's grave! I laughed my butt off. Not because it was funny, it was actually pretty dramatic. I was just enjoying the gall of this character, the absolute lack of restraint.

Also, the hole in the neck was a laugh-out-loud moment as well. I think that happened because Eric is applying the same amount of force he would apply were he regular size, but in a much smaller area. But man, what a great gorey "oh sh**!" moment.

I like this character because he's not like Lobo or Guy Gardner or some other 'outrageous' character. It's almost like he honestly doesn't know he's doing bad things. Eric's is a quiet, careless kind of chaos.

Give me more, Mr. Kirkman.

[niall mc cann]

Eric's is a quiet, careless kind of chaos.


:D

i like that line. very good.

[Haunt]

The behavior of the Irredeemable Ant Man gets more and more repugnant and I love it! I guess for me, repugnant = attractive!

i appreciate it simply because he's different than most other marvel characters. i'm tired of the same old thing (the exception being Gravity; he's cool).

He hits on his (dead) best friend's girl TWICE. Once on top of his best friend's grave! I laughed my butt off. Not because it was funny, it was actually pretty dramatic. I was just enjoying the gall of this character, the absolute lack of restraint.

i was hoping for a flashback sequence. so far all i know is that they were childhood friends. but i bet that was an interesting time with Eric being such a bad influence. his mom really went off on him so there's gotta be some history there. i will miss Chris so i hope he's not forgotten about. i liked him better than Veronica, at least.

Also, the hole in the neck was a laugh-out-loud moment as well. I think that happened because Eric is applying the same amount of force he would apply were he regular size, but in a much smaller area. But man, what a great gorey "oh sh**!" moment.

that part actually caught me by surprise. it's definately the first time an Ant-Man pulled that trick. one page he's winding up to punch some clown. next, his he's elbow deep in a hairy neck. :vomit: i still want to know how he scarred Mitch. what kind of weapon makes someone look like a deep dish pizza?

I like this character because he's not like Lobo or Guy Gardner or some other 'outrageous' character. It's almost like he honestly doesn't know he's doing bad things. Eric's is a quiet, careless kind of chaos.


i agree with Niall. great line. i might use it as my new tag. :D



P.S. i didn't notice until now but do you guys realize that the solicit and the cover flat-out lied? the solicit says that Eric goes home and gets involved with a couple of small-time crooks. the crooks are even on the cover. but really all he did was accidentally punch a hole in the neck of an abusive husband. if it were any other book, i'd be mad. but i can accept a deceptive solicit from Ant-Man.

[Haunt]

I think he was mainly there to sleep, he just decided to take advantage of the situation, too. Perfectly reasonable - if kinda despicable.

And hey, Eric saved Nick Fury's life. The biggest hook in this series, for me, is that Eric does sometimes do the right thing, even if it doesn't work out for him. He's not just a dirtbag, and he's not just an unlucky nice guy, but kinda in the middle. And I like that.


i did like that he got to save Nick; especially after not even believing the guy existed. and he even got an attaboy from Wolverine. i hadn't noticed how similar their sideburns were before then. maybe they're related. *snicker*

[Sentinel K]

Yet another brilliant issue. 'Nuff said.

[Evan Waters]

Eric seems like an old-school antihero- the kind of character you'd see in movies from the late Sixties or early-mid Seventies. It's an interesting vibe, and the whole title has it, really. Sort of a retro sardonicism.

I fear this book may not be long for this world, but I hope I'm wrong.

[Haunt]

Eric seems like an old-school antihero- the kind of character you'd see in movies from the late Sixties or early-mid Seventies. It's an interesting vibe, and the whole title has it, really. Sort of a retro sardonicism.

wow. i almost find it hard to believe that there was anyone like O'Grady in the 60s and 70s. i thought the "i'm in it for me" philosophy originated somewhere in the late 90s. :D

I fear this book may not be long for this world, but I hope I'm wrong.

if the series doesn't last, i hope that Kirkman and Hester get to use the character elsewhere. he's a fun read.

[Captain Exaggeration]

That crazy Eric. This **** just gets funnier and funnier. :D

[Haunt]

are there any other superfolk from Vermont? kind of bad luck that they'd be represented by a post-juvenile delinquent hero. :p


weird. i guess Eric's hometown, Lancaster, is made up.

[garin]

i still want to know how he scarred Mitch. what kind of weapon makes someone look like a deep dish pizza?My guess is the jets from the Ant-Man suit. Do you think the other Ant-Man from the next-next issue blurb is Pym or Mitch (in flashback)?

[Haunt]

My guess is the jets from the Ant-Man suit. Do you think the other Ant-Man from the next-next issue blurb is Pym or Mitch (in flashback)?


best bet is that it's Mitch Carson. Pym and Director Hill seem to be making this his responsibility. if Pym were to go after him, it wouldn't be in some prototype Ant-Man suit. he'd probably go all Yellowjacket. anyways, the damage to Mitch's face looks more like acid to me. i guess we'll see.

[TimmyTony]

Very lackluster issue (I read the first one and decided to give it another issue before dropping the title), but in this one the writing was very disjointed and the alleged jokes went nowhere.
(No wonder the book is doing so bad sales-wise.)
This is the worst book I read this week.
(and in a week that saw me reading Onlaught Reborn, that's saying a lot...)

[Jack]

best bet is that it's Mitch Carson. Pym and Director Hill seem to be making this his responsibility. if Pym were to go after him, it wouldn't be in some prototype Ant-Man suit. he'd probably go all Yellowjacket. anyways, the damage to Mitch's face looks more like acid to me. i guess we'll see.
Now that we know he's going to wear some Ant-Man armour, then it becomes possible the damage is from some sort of suit malfunction or destruction.

[Haunt]

Now that we know he's going to wear some Ant-Man armour, then it becomes possible the damage is from some sort of suit malfunction or destruction.

that's possible but i'd think he'd be more mad at Pym, in that case. the suit obviously didn't survive, since we've seen a disfigured Mitch wearing a standard SHIELD uniform afterwards.

[Jack]

that's possible but i'd think he'd be more mad at Pym, in that case. the suit obviously didn't survive, since we've seen a disfigured Mitch wearing a standard SHIELD uniform afterwards.
Well, I meant a malfunction/destruction/whatever caused by Eric.

Maybe ants ate his face? Or Eric broke half the helmet, leading Mitch to be injured by something in the environment that he should have been protected from?

[Kaskratiski]

I figured that Marvel would've already announced this book's cancellation.
Definitely not Robert Kirkman's best.
Far from it.

Characters are ridiculous (but not in a so-ridiculous-it's-great way), and the pacing is off.

And this book is supposed to be funny, right?

[Fatguy]

I dunno, my interest in the book is starting to dip off some, Eric is just TOO much a jerk. Its just so over the top, its like Kirkman is screaming in our face "SEE! HE'S A JERK!". I wish his moral limitations were a little more subtle, though I am sure there are scumbags to the degree of Eric in the real world, I dont know if I want to read their exploits.

I absolutely love the letters page though, always a hearty laugh. And I'm a huge fan of Phil Hester, his art looks fantastic every issue.

[PastePotPete]

Sorry to see that some people don't like the book, but that's inevitable. It's a different kind of book. I'd encourage anyone reading this thread who hasn't picked up the book to disregard these nay-sayers and just give the book a try. Decide for yourself.

Regarding claims that the book isn't funny... I really think it is pretty funny. I also appreciate that the gags come out of the character's behavior instead of the book simply being goofy or filled with jokes. Don't know if this lends any credence to my opinion, but I am a working comedian who makes income off of stand-up and I think the book is hilarious. But sense-of-humor is very specific to the individual, I'll admit that.

I think the Ant Man in the past will be Mitch and I figure that the pizza-face accident is going to have something to do with a shrinking mishap. We've already seen how dangerous the powers can be with that hole-in-the-neck fiasco.

[Haunt]

Sorry to see that some people don't like the book, but that's inevitable. It's a different kind of book. I'd encourage anyone reading this thread who hasn't picked up the book to disregard these nay-sayers and just give the book a try. Decide for yourself.

don't sweat it. i like the book. if you read the first page and a half, there a bunch of people who like the book. the naysayers wait until they think the thread is ended and post all at once (usually people with very small post counts). oh well. it's the sales figures that ultimately count. if Ant-Man doesn't do well, it will be cancelled. won't change my enjoyment of it though. Kirkman's earned my money.


Regarding claims that the book isn't funny... I really think it is pretty funny. I also appreciate that the gags come out of the character's behavior instead of the book simply being goofy or filled with jokes. Don't know if this lends any credence to my opinion, but I am a working comedian who makes income off of stand-up and I think the book is hilarious. But sense-of-humor is very specific to the individual, I'll admit that.

it's dark situational humour. not everyone goes for that; prefering witty one-liners like Spider-man is known for. but i'm glad that Kirkman didn't go that route. the character isn't supposed to be witty or charming. Eric, for the most part, is clueless and a bit of a creep. it would be harder to like him if he were some kind of one-liner spouting wise aleck.


I think the Ant Man in the past will be Mitch and I figure that the pizza-face accident is going to have something to do with a shrinking mishap. We've already seen how dangerous the powers can be with that hole-in-the-neck fiasco.

i like how they are approaching the powers. like when Eric washes the blood off his costume and grows back to normal height, the water doesn't grow with him. it's something i had never even considered. i wonder if that will come into play in the future. and the neck incident was certainly a creative way of showing a fledgling hero's first botched attempt at doing good. it just figures that an individual with few scruples would almost kill someone the first time they try to do good. i'm very curious as to how Mitch ends up the way he does. it doesn't look like any burn i've ever seen. i keep imagining that some kind of poisonous insect (or spider) did that to him; maybe while the two of them were fighting at ant-size. a venom might make his face bubble like that especially if he were smaller. geez, i can't believe that i have to wait an entire month to read the next issue! :(

Well, I meant a malfunction/destruction/whatever caused by Eric.

Maybe ants ate his face? Or Eric broke half the helmet, leading Mitch to be injured by something in the environment that he should have been protected from?

i think you might be right about the ants chewing on his face. it's something that hasn't been shown before, at least. Pym fought some ants in his first appearance but made it out with barely a scratch. we've never actually seen one of Ant-Man's ants attack a human who was their own size. good speculation, Jack.

[TimmyTony]

don't sweat it. i like the book. if you read the first page and a half, there a bunch of people who like the book. the naysayers wait until they think the thread is ended and post all at once (usually people with very small post counts)

I forgot that having less than say, 2000 posts somehow invalidates your opinion.



. oh well. it's the sales figures that ultimately count. if Ant-Man doesn't do well, it will be cancelled.

Then get ready for the axe, because the book is selling quite poorly.



it's dark situational humour. not everyone goes for that; prefering witty one-liners like Spider-man is known for. but i'm glad that Kirkman didn't go that route.

I much preferred dark situational humour when Dan Slott did it in GLA/GLX.
Irreedemable Ant Man reads like a poor man's Dan Slott-in-GLA mode.





BTW...don't get deffensive about the naysayers.
After all, 85 % of your posts are naysaying about books, mostly Bendis' or Millar's.
Every book, no matter how critically acclaimed or commercially successful, will have its detractors. (Well, in this case Ant Man is neither a critical or commercial hit, but you know what I mean)
And you certainly know about being a detractor of certain comics...;)

[Haunt]

BTW...don't get deffensive about the naysayers.
After all, 85 % of your posts are naysaying about books, mostly Bendis' or Millar's.
Every book, no matter how critically acclaimed or commercially successful, will have its detractors. (Well, in this case Ant Man is neither a critical or commercial hit, but you know what I mean)
And you certainly know about being a detractor of certain comics...;)

would i? i'm pretty sure that i haven't posted in that other thread, perhaps out of respect to its readers. but it's good to know that i can bring you down to my level so easily. thanks for the free publicity. and thank you for purchasing Irredeemable Ant-Man #3. Kirkman appreciates your support.

[Jack]

i think you might be right about the ants chewing on his face. it's something that hasn't been shown before, at least. Pym fought some ants in his first appearance but made it out with barely a scratch. we've never actually seen one of Ant-Man's ants attack a human who was their own size. good speculation, Jack.Well, the cover of the next issue has them fighting in a group of ants, which may of course never happen, but if it does..

Maybe Eric's suit has ant-controlling powers but Mitch's version doesn't, since it's an incomplete model. I like the idea that it was insect venom of some sort too, that would be nasty and appropriate.

[TimmyTony]

thanks for the free publicity.

Publicity for you or for your book?

and thank you for purchasing Irredeemable Ant-Man #3. Kirkman appreciates your support.

I bet you do.

[Haunt]

Well, the cover of the next issue has them fighting in a group of ants, which may of course never happen, but if it does..

Maybe Eric's suit has ant-controlling powers but Mitch's version doesn't, since it's an incomplete model. I like the idea that it was insect venom of some sort too, that would be nasty and appropriate.

now i remember what his injury reminds me of; the movie Hannibal. in it the main villain is a pedophile who was drugged and forced to carve his own face off with a piece of glass. Mitch's lower jaw makes him look sort of like him. oh well. he's a really cool-looking hero/villain. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_Verger

[Jack]

Never seen Hannibal, but it occurs to me that they've been making a pretty big deal of the fact that the controls are on the helmets. I think there might be a connection to that somehow, like Mitch trying to shrink and accidentally hurting himself.

Mitch's face is a surprisingly effective hook for me. My anticipation for the reveal keeps growing.

[SalazarSleaze2]

I dunno, my interest in the book is starting to dip off some, Eric is just TOO much a jerk. Its just so over the top, its like Kirkman is screaming in our face "SEE! HE'S A JERK!".

My disinterest in the book after the first issue has to do with the dullness of the proceedings.
It's almost as if Kirkman were going through the motions, his writing here is quite asinine and yes, it seems as if Marvel simply told RK to try to replicate Dan Slott's tone from GLA.

And the main character is a jerk, but in spite of that he is unbelievably bland and indistinct.
Just my opinion.

[sgt pepper]

as if Marvel simply told RK to try to replicate Dan Slott's tone from GLA.

.

It's a completely different kind of humor so I don't see it at all, but what a very admirable goal that would be.

[Haunt]

Never seen Hannibal, but it occurs to me that they've been making a pretty big deal of the fact that the controls are on the helmets. I think there might be a connection to that somehow, like Mitch trying to shrink and accidentally hurting himself.


that sounds really painful; not everything shrinking or growing at the same time. i'd hope that Pym wouldn't give someone a faulty costume (i guess it could be damaged during the fight). i'm sure that he's got enough to feel guilty about; what with Clor. i really wish it was Hank going after Eric because the two haven't even officially met yet. i wonder how much of a role he'll play in later stories, if any. meanwhile, i can definately put up with Mitch being Tommy Lee Jones to O'Grady's Harrison Ford. Mitch is like his Uncle Ben; "With great irresponsibility comes one serious *** whooping!"

It's a completely different kind of humor so I don't see it at all, but what a very admirable goal that would be.

i think what's-his-face is referring to the narrator of the book. me, i'm glad that Kirkman added the talking ant. it really lightens the mood. i'd like to see him and Tippytoes duke it out, actually.

[SalazarSleaze2]

It's a completely different kind of humor so I don't see it at all, but what a very admirable goal that would be.

I agree, it's an admirable goal.
But...if you want to have a Dan Slott book, get Dan Slott to write it, otherwise you are stuck with a mediocre, half-hearted imitation like Irredeemable Ant Man.

[Jack]

i'd like to see him and Tippytoes duke it out, actually.You just know the ant would fight dirty.

[ultramandingo]

now i remember what his injury reminds me of; the movie Hannibal. in it the main villain is a pedophile who was drugged and forced to carve his own face off with a piece of glass. Mitch's lower jaw makes him look sort of like him. oh well. he's a really cool-looking hero/villain. :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason_Verger

oohhhhhh ....."what if " ant man got hold of some of those face eatin ants that i saw on the man eatin ants network ( m.e.a.n.)!!!!

[Haunt]

You just know the ant would fight dirty.

yeah, he'd probably bring his friends. or a bunch of fleas. :eek:

oohhhhhh ....."what if " ant man got hold of some of those face eatin ants that i saw on the man eatin ants network ( m.e.a.n.)!!!!

there's a man-eating ants network? is that seperate from the man-hating ant segment on the Lifetime channel?

[Haunt]

ant-man pics in Kirkman's Buy My Books blog...

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004008_col.jpg

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004007_col.jpg

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004009_col.jpg

i wonder if there's a Peeping Tom's Anonymous for super-folk. Eric might want to sign up.

[Young Avenger]

ant-man pics in Kirkman's Buy My Books blog...

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004008_col.jpg

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004007_col.jpg

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004009_col.jpg

i wonder if there's a Peeping Tom's Anonymous for super-folk. Eric might want to sign up.

Eric is putting that suit to good use. Does his helmet have a camera on it? Seeing how he's going to be homeless he's going to need a source of income.

[Haunt]

Eric is putting that suit to good use. Does his helmet have a camera on it? Seeing how he's going to be homeless he's going to need a source of income.

good thinking Young Avenger. maybe you should run that by Kirkman, if he hasn't already thought of it. Pym was designing the suit for espionage purposes. it would make sense for a spy to have some way to document his/her findings. maybe he should start out boot-legging new releases at the movie theatre. :D

[Young Avenger]

good thinking Young Avenger. maybe you should run that by Kirkman, if he hasn't already thought of it. Pym was designing the suit for espionage purposes. it would make sense for a spy to have some way to document his/her findings. maybe he should start out boot-legging new releases at the movie theatre. :D


Phil Hester posts here. If he sees the post he could suggest it to Kirkman. I need a way to draw him to this thread.

[Haunt]

Phil Hester posts here. If he sees the post he could suggest it to Kirkman. I need a way to draw him to this thread.

you could start talking about Iowa. j/k i do sort of want to ask about Eric and Chris' hometown; Lancaster, Vermont. like why Vermont? i don't think there's even a real Lancaster Vermont. :p

[Jack]

you could start talking about Iowa. j/k i do sort of want to ask about Eric and Chris' hometown; Lancaster, Vermont. like why Vermont? i don't think there's even a real Lancaster Vermont. :p
I only know how to summon Kurt Busiek, but maybe it will work for Phil Hester too.

Hester Hester Hester.

*waits*

[Haunt]

I only know how to summon Kurt Busiek, but maybe it will work for Phil Hester too.

Hester Hester Hester.

*waits*


no, no you're doing it wrong. you have to say it while looking into a mirror. then you turn off the lights and Hester will appear.

[Young Avenger]

*waits*

How long does this usually take?

[Haunt]

*waits*

How long does this usually take?

he's a busy man. you have seen how many panels he has to pack into one page, right? ;)

[John Nowak]

Well, I'm enjoying Irredeemable Ant-Man. The main character's an amusing jerk, and it isn't too often that you see someone in comics who behaves just as badly as I would if I had superpowers.

I'm not fond of the flashback construction, but other than that, it's amusing.

I'm not sure if it his charm would last for an entire series, but a miniseries works.

[Haunt]

Well, I'm enjoying Irredeemable Ant-Man. The main character's an amusing jerk, and it isn't too often that you see someone in comics who behaves just as badly as I would if I had superpowers.

I'm not fond of the flashback construction, but other than that, it's amusing.

I'm not sure if it his charm would last for an entire series, but a miniseries works.


the flashbacks will be done by issue 6, iirc. i dunno; i kinda like the flashbacks. but i'm also a fan of SHIELD and i like to see how stuff goes down on the Helicarrier. anyways, i don't need him to be charming. i do need him to save people; which he's done. so i'm good. :)

[Young Avenger]

I think the flashbacks are used so the book won't be affected by Civil War. I could be wrong.

[Haunt]

I think the flashbacks are used so the book won't be affected by Civil War. I could be wrong.


i think it has more to do with Kirkman wanting to give us more story. plus you get two cliffhangers for the price of one. i say this because Eric is affected by Civil War (in the present). we see that SHIELD is actively hunting him down, even in the Civil War Choosing Sides issue. the reason he hasn't picked a side is because he's 1) very new at being a hero 2) a real jerk who is uninterested in the rights of his fellow costumed hero and 3) only a handful of individuals even know that he exists. i'm sure that SHIELD isn't interested in word getting out that one of their own agents stole a power suit and proceeded to use it irresponsibly. it makes them look bad. :)

[Young Avenger]

i think it has more to do with Kirkman wanting to give us more story. plus you get two cliffhangers for the price of one. i say this because Eric is affected by Civil War (in the present). we see that SHIELD is actively hunting him down, even in the Civil War Choosing Sides issue. the reason he hasn't picked a side is because he's 1) very new at being a hero 2) a real jerk who is uninterested in the rights of his fellow costumed hero and 3) only a handful of individuals even know that he exists. i'm sure that SHIELD isn't interested in word getting out that one of their own agents stole a power suit and proceeded to use it irresponsibly. it makes them look bad. :)

SHIELD is hunting him down for stealing the suit and not for being an unregistered combatant so Civil War doesn't affect him that way. I would think that the pro side would know of the new Ant-Man since Pym told Tony about it. They probably know but are letting SHIELD handle it.

[Haunt]

SHIELD is hunting him down for stealing the suit and not for being an unregistered combatant so Civil War doesn't affect him that way. I would think that the pro side would know of the new Ant-Man since Pym told Tony about it. They probably know but are letting SHIELD handle it.

sounds right but i think we'll have a clearer picture of it by next issue. consider that Eric has been on leave for months because of the Helicarrier crash. by the time he gets back aboard, the act might already be in effect. the act might not have an effect on him as a costumed hero but he's still a SHIELD agent at this point. even the lower-level grunts probably keep up with the news.

[Eric_Carnaby]

lol
Looks like this crappy book is done for:

122 24.58 IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2 $2.99 MAR (November's sales charts)

(That's # 122 from what, sixty something that it debuted at? I guess sometimes we don't give the buying public enoug credit. But in Ant-Man's case, a bad book is deservedly being ignored by buyers )

[Crimson]

lol
Looks like this crappy book is done for:

122 24.58 IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2 $2.99 MAR (November's sales charts)

(That's # 122 from what, sixty something that it debuted at? I guess sometimes we don't give the buying public enoug credit. But in Ant-Man's case, a bad book is deservedly being ignored by buyers )

Ant-man was never going to sell well... it's Ant-man. They'd have trouble selling the book even with someone like Bendis on it.

I love the book though. It's really fun in a dark sort of way. It's a shame that the opening issue was by far the weakest.

[SalazarSleaze2]

Ant-man was never going to sell well... it's Ant-man. They'd have trouble selling the book even with someone like Bendis on it.




I agree with this.
I am sure that even with Bendis writing, the book wouldn't be a top five smash, it's Ant-Man for crying out loud, but I guarantee you that if Bendis had written it, the book's first two issues would be at least top 50 sellers.


The problem with this book,imo, is that it's a lame attempt at a dark humor book (something that Dan Slott or Warren Ellis could've done much better) and it tries too hard to have an unsympathetic protagonist, and that backfired.
Thus the book has flopped.

[ultramandingo]

.....i say its time for zombies ! $!$CA-CHING$!$ top ..uh , 80 seller at least. lil' zombie ant man slooowly eatin brains!

[Haunt]

i love the book. it's a great read with more story than most other titles. the creative team is definately earning its money. sales figures don't accurately reflect the quality of a title; just show you what series the majority are comfortable with buying regularly. me, i'm glad that it's done as well as it has and that there's a small following of people who read it and like it. the converse would be a bunch of half-interested people buying a book because of the big name writer attached to it. and who wants to share reading tastes with those people?

[sgt pepper]

lol
Looks like this crappy book is done for:

122 24.58 IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2 $2.99 MAR (November's sales charts)

(That's # 122 from what, sixty something that it debuted at? I guess sometimes we don't give the buying public enoug credit. But in Ant-Man's case, a bad book is deservedly being ignored by buyers )

You're actually posting and laughing about a book that you don't like doing poorly? Wow, sounds like you're taking this book a little too personally. Did it offend your mother, or something?

[Kaskratiski]

sales figures don't accurately reflect the quality of a title;

I agree, but in this book's case, I think it does.
The book is terrible.

[Sentinel K]

i love the book. it's a great read with more story than most other titles. the creative team is definately earning its money. sales figures don't accurately reflect the quality of a title; just show you what series the majority are comfortable with buying regularly. me, i'm glad that it's done as well as it has and that there's a small following of people who read it and like it. the converse would be a bunch of half-interested people buying a book because of the big name writer attached to it. and who wants to share reading tastes with those people?

Ditto.

I love this book.

[Haunt]

I agree, but in this book's case, I think it does.
The book is terrible.

if it were terrible, it wouldn't still be on my pull-list. i didn't even have a pull-list before the book. it's not terrible. you just don't like it. that's ok. there are books i hate, as well; probably most of the books that you like. that's life. but thanks for making the thread longer and giving me a chance to defend an enjoyable title.

http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20061213/ANTMAN004008_col.jpg

[Kaskratiski]

if it were terrible, it wouldn't still be on my pull-list. i didn't even have a pull-list before the book. it's not terrible. you just don't like it. that's ok.


If it weren't terrible, it would still be on my pull list.

It is terrible.
You just like it.
That's ok.

There are books I love, as well, probably those you love.
That's life.
Thanks for giving me the chance to express my opinions about a terrible book without being snarky or rude.

[PastePotPete]

If it weren't terrible, it would still be on my pull list.

It is terrible.
You just like it.
That's ok.

There are books I love, as well, probably those you love.
That's life.
Thanks for giving me the chance to express my opinions about a terrible book without being snarky or rude.

Ah-ah! You were snarky.

Hey, hate the book if you want. Celebrate its cancellation. I happen to love the book. Okay, you say I have poor taste. Agree to disagree.

BUT

One thing I think we HAVE to agree on is that Robert Kirkman and Marvel are trying to do something different with this book. They are trying something that is a departure from regular Marvel fare. They are trying a very different take on the anti-hero and they're trying it with a different-than-usual storytelling style.

I think that deserves our praise. Anytime someone wants to go a little left-of-center and the company gives them a shot at it, that's a great thing. Even if it weren't a great book.

BUT IT IS! Everyone reading this thread should try it! Go get a copy now! You--mmmmf! mmmmf!

[pastepotpete is tackled and gagged by a brutal band of internet poo-pooers, who lock him in a van and make him listen as they read off- in a dull monotone--entries from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.]

[Violently Apathetic]

I have to say, I'm just not feeling it. It's a shame because I loved the character design and the concept, but after reading the third issue I was like 'and I should care...why?' I really don't want it to be cancelled because I still think it's workable, but I can't say I'll exactly be mourning its passing. It probably should have been released as a short mini first or something...

[Haunt]

I have to say, I'm just not feeling it. It's a shame because I loved the character design and the concept, but after reading the third issue I was like 'and I should care...why?' I really don't want it to be cancelled because I still think it's workable, but I can't say I'll exactly be mourning its passing. It probably should have been released as a short mini first or something...


i'm very glad they didn't go the short mini route. that would have been the worst mistake Marvel could ever make. it should be obvious that Kirkman isn't telling a mini-series size tale. he's created a supporting cast and a very unique character who will require exploration before he seems complex. the people who dislike the book, say it's dull and that the character is too unlikable. how would making it a mini-series change that opinion? what would be the motive for an individual to pick this up as a mini? they could read about a jerk for 4 issues, see his friend get shot, and him spy on some girl in a shower. remember what happened to The Hood? i don't because i knew that the mini wasn't going to have an effect. i just waited around for him to appear as part of a larger cast to learn about him.

the point of it being an ongoing is to allow the character to become more than he is. he just learned how to use his powers last issue. i'm surprised that you can even gauge the tone of this series when it's still in the 'getting-to-know-you' phase. this probably won't be some Spider-man/Gravity/Plug-in-a-young-hero story where you're introduced to a good-natured kid who, through some quirk of fate, gains powers and uses them to make a difference in the world/protect others. there's nothing i can really compare Irredeemable Ant-Man to. we have books about heroes, villains, reformed villains, vigilantes, tragic monsters, genius businessmen, super-families, alien ducks, mutants, etc. but Ant-Man is about the wrong person recieving a gift & how karma seeks to balance the scales. i want the character around just because i can't predict what he'll do in any given situation; unlike a hero who buys into the 'with great power comes great responsibility' mantra.

It should also be noted that the title sprung up in the middle of a huge change for the Marvel Universe. you might hate Eric but he's a milestone. he's one of the first "heroes" to emerge from Civil War.

[Jack Flash]

i am digging this book too.

people who celebrate books getting cancelled are savages.

[SabrinaMorrell]

I am not feeling this book either.
I agree about the general dullness of the proceedings and the feeling of been-there-done that...(Dan Slott comes to mind as someone who's done much better with this kind of darkish humor)
A character being a jerk isn't the same as a character being vivid and memorable.
You can have an allegedly "boring" and typical good guy and write it to be unforgettable and you can have an alleged "anti-hero" or "complex", flawed guy and still have him be utterly forgettable, like this Ant-man is.

This is yet another book that Marvel just throws out there to see if it sticks, and by this time next year it won't even be around and nobody will remember it.

[Violently Apathetic]

I don't know, Haunt, that all kinda sounds like BKV's 'The Hood' in spirit to me and IMHO BKV did it better. Though I suppose Parker came off more 'villainous' than morally ambiguous...yet still managed to be more likable than whatshisface.

[Haunt]

I am not feeling this book either.
I agree about the general dullness of the proceedings and the feeling of been-there-done that...(Dan Slott comes to mind as someone who's done much better with this kind of darkish humor)
A character being a jerk isn't the same as a character being vivid and memorable.
You can have an allegedly "boring" and typical good guy and write it to be unforgettable and you can have an alleged "anti-hero" or "complex", flawed guy and still have him be utterly forgettable, like this Ant-man is.

This is yet another book that Marvel just throws out there to see if it sticks, and by this time next year it won't even be around and nobody will remember it.

i'll remember it.

I don't know, Haunt, that all kinda sounds like BKV's 'The Hood' in spirit to me and IMHO BKV did it better. Though I suppose Parker came off more 'villainous' than morally ambiguous...yet still managed to be more likable than whatshisface.

i'm not seeing the comparison; even surface comparisons. the Hood was about a criminal who got powers after killing a demon and continued being a criminal. Irredeemable Ant-Man is about a SHIELD agent who worshipped superheroes as a little kid putting on a power suit, getting shot in the head, and having the powersuit yanked off his body so that his scummy friend could survive SHIELD's version of 911. said-friend goes on to use power suit to stop spousal abusers and muggers; while taking full advantage of any perks that come with the superhero lifestyle. Parker was a street-smart crook. Eric's a bad liar and about as subtle as a freight train. Parker's got a girlfriend with a baby on the way. Eric's still trying to get in the pants of his dead friend's ex. The Hood was filled with super-villains and an organized crime figure. Ant-Man's book is full of SHIELD agents. i'm lost here. i don't think the two characters have anything in common besides ethnicity.

btw, if you think BKV's Hood was so great, name Parker's cousin and the cop he killed.

[SalazarSleaze2]

One thing I think we HAVE to agree on is that Robert Kirkman and Marvel are trying to do something different with this book. They are trying something that is a departure from regular Marvel fare. They are trying a very different take on the anti-hero and they're trying it with a different-than-usual storytelling style.




How is a "hero" that also happens to be a jerk and morally messed up something original?

[Violently Apathetic]

i'm not seeing the comparison; even surface comparisons. the Hood was about a criminal who got powers after killing a demon and continued being a criminal. Irredeemable Ant-Man is about a SHIELD agent who worshipped superheroes as a little kid putting on a power suit, getting shot in the head, and having the powersuit yanked off his body so that his scummy friend could survive SHIELD's version of 911. said-friend goes on to use power suit to stop spousal abusers and muggers; while taking full advantage of any perks that come with the superhero lifestyle. Parker was a street-smart crook. Eric's a bad liar and about as subtle as a freight train. Parker's got a girlfriend with a baby on the way. Eric's still trying to get in the pants of his dead friend's ex. The Hood was filled with super-villains and an organized crime figure. Ant-Man's book is full of SHIELD agents. i'm lost here. i don't think the two characters have anything in common besides ethnicity..
The way you intially described Eric was 'the wrong person recieving a gift & how karma seeks to balance the scales' and that's exactly what Parker was. He was a pretty petty criminal, he suddenly gained a lot of power and used it for his own gain, karma bit him in the butt and he eventually decided to change (as of the end of the original mini and Beyond). Parker is closer to Eric than he is someone like Superman or Captain America, he's just a more exaggerated version of 'unworthy' person gaining power. *Shrugs* I didn't say they were exactly alike, just similar in spirit.

btw, if you think BKV's Hood was so great, name Parker's cousin and the cop he killed.

Wasn't the cousin named John? I admit, I can't remember the name of the cop, though I was annoyed that since the series ended we won't get to see his wife DO anything as 'White Fang.' I never said 'The Hood' was great, it isn't as polished as most of BKV's works, I just enjoyed it more than Ant-Man.

[Haunt]

How is a "hero" that also happens to be a jerk and morally messed up something original?

well try naming a few other marvel characters like that. then subtract the ones who didn't start out morally messed up or jerkish. then subtract the Punisher-style vigilantes and dark brooding heroes. then take out the mercenaries or reformed villains.

The way you intially described Eric was 'the wrong person recieving a gift & how karma seeks to balance the scales' and that's exactly what Parker was. He was a pretty petty criminal, he suddenly gained a lot of power and used it for his own gain, karma bit him in the butt and he eventually decided to change (as of the end of the original mini and Beyond). Parker is closer to Eric than he is someone like Superman or Captain America, he's just a more exaggerated version of 'unworthy' person gaining power. *Shrugs* I didn't say they were exactly alike, just similar in spirit.

fair enough. you're still talking about two characters who are moving in entirely different directions. Parker shot a demon in cold blood and used his costume for criminal gain. was it the costume that caused him to seek redemption or his 'family?' Eric wasn't a great human being but he had been in the military and SHIELD; non-criminal organizations. for him, finding a superhero costume was the start of a downward spiral. his dark side has been exposed and, from Kirkman's interviews, it doesn't sound like he's going to seek redemption. Hood and Irredeemable Ant-Man are dark humor but don't confuse that with them being similar characters. Eric's not making up for past mistakes. he doesn't even recognize them as mistakes. besides that, i'd say that he's a much more lighthearted individual than the Hood. Parker's guilt-ridden and desperate. Eric is opportunistic and vacuous. it's just something i find amusing to read about. i'm not trying to change your opinion. would just rather not have two drastically different characters described as copies.


here's 2 scenes from The Hood:
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page1&issue=40782470339%201
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page2&issue=40782470339%201

&

here's 2 from Irredeemable Ant-man
http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40433&page=4
http://www.popcultureshock.com/index.php?p=40433&page=8

it's a completely different mood/tone, imo. anyone else have an opinion?

[Young Avenger]

This is yet another book that Marvel just throws out there to see if it sticks, and by this time next year it won't even be around and nobody will remember it.

I'll remember it. Eric is easily my favorite character to don the Ant-Man name.

How is a "hero" that also happens to be a jerk and morally messed up something original?

Which heroes you know use their powers for their own benefit? I don't see guys like jerky heroes like Blade and Wolverine sneak into a women locker room or saving a chick from a mugger just to ask her out.

[SalazarSleaze2]

The way you intially described Eric was 'the wrong person recieving a gift & how karma seeks to balance the scales' and that's exactly what Parker was. He was a pretty petty criminal, he suddenly gained a lot of power and used it for his own gain, karma bit him in the butt and he eventually decided to change (as of the end of the original mini and Beyond). Parker is closer to Eric than he is someone like Superman or Captain America, he's just a more exaggerated version of 'unworthy' person gaining power. *Shrugs* I didn't say they were exactly alike, just similar in spirit.


Which is cool and all, but fans of the book are peddling it as some sort of masterpiece of originality, when it's clearly not, starting with the name of the character.

Making a Ant-Man book was a ridiculous endeavor in the first place, giving that name to someone that nobody cares about is even worse, and thus the book's tepid sales and non-buzz.

[Haunt]

Which is cool and all, but fans of the book are peddling it as some sort of masterpiece of originality, when it's clearly not, starting with the name of the character.

i'd never call it a masterpiece. Phil's just a great draftsman/story-teller. but i can definately get away with calling it original. people don't even know what to make out of it, it's so original. i wouldn't be reading the title if it were same-old same-old. i, personally, don't want to read about a nice guy with nice guy problems having his life change after getting superpowers. i'm a much more cynical individual. i can't relate to Peter Parker. Peter isn't your average person. Peter never wore clothes or talked a certain way to conform. he never tried a cigarette or underage drank. he never hung out with a girl just to get in her pants. Peter was basically Jesus Christ in the body of a dweeby highschooler. and he ended up married to a super-model while everyone who teased him in high school suffered. his reality just has nothing to do w/ my life. in real life, it's bad and aggressive individuals who get ahead. chances are that you maybe have 1 out of 7 friends you can actually depend on. chances are you've teased someone else in your lifetime. Eric is sleazy but he's got more in common with most people i bump into on a regular basis, than most marvel heroes. he's just fun to read about. i don't need to like him or proclaim his book a masterpiece.


Making a Ant-Man book was a ridiculous endeavor in the first place, giving that name to someone that nobody cares about is even worse, and thus the book's tepid sales and non-buzz.

non-buzz? you're still talking about it and you don't like the concept of an ant-man. what does that tell you?

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I loved the art (Phil Hester has always been one of my faves since Green Arrow) but the writing left me cold.

I agree with the all the reasons people have given to say it's crap.
I read the first two issues and that's all I needed to asess what a waste of time the book is.

[Haunt]

I loved the art (Phil Hester has always been one of my faves since Green Arrow) but the writing left me cold.

I agree with the all the reasons people have given to say it's crap.
I read the first two issues and that's all I needed to asess what a waste of time the book is.

so 2 issues is your cut-off? it's amazing that you got through Spider-woman Origin. :D L

[stuccoyoutuBE]

......he still has a long way to go to become as big a jerk-off as pym - wife beating , ultron , giant shoulder pads , ect.


LMAO!!!

That was funnier than anything on the book so far.



Issue 3 is my last.
I only wish I hadn't spent any money on them, but it's not a big deal, I deserve it for buying an Ant-Man book in the first place!! :eek:

Seriously, the book was bad, Liefeld bad, Clone Saga bad, Austen Avengers bad, current Wonder Man book bad imo.

[Haunt]

LMAO!!!

That was funnier than anything on the book so far.
Issue 3 is my last.
I only wish I hadn't spent any money on them, but it's not a big deal, I deserve it for buying an Ant-Man book in the first place!! :eek:

that's amazing. what were you waiting for; your letter to get printed?

Seriously, the book was bad, Liefeld bad, Clone Saga bad, Austen Avengers bad, current Wonder Man book bad imo.

well hopefully people will buy the next issue to see if you're right or just engaging in negative hyperbole because you're bored. you almost had me until you compared it to Liefeld's work. i bet you wouldn't say that to Phil Hester's face.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I dunno, my interest in the book is starting to dip off some, Eric is just TOO much a jerk. Its just so over the top, its like Kirkman is screaming in our face "SEE! HE'S A JERK!". I wish his moral limitations were a little more subtle, though I am sure there are scumbags to the degree of Eric in the real world, I dont know if I want to read their exploits.




I think that's a big part of the reason the book has bombed.

Anti-heroes and morally ambiguous characters are interesting and could become huge properties (Wolverine, Punisher), but they have to be superbly written in their inception and I don't think this book is good enough to overcome the unlikeable character factor; plus the jokes aren't funny.

[Haunt]

I think that's a big part of the reason the book has bombed.

Anti-heroes and morally ambiguous characters are interesting and could become huge properties (Wolverine, Punisher), but they have to be superbly written in their inception and I don't think this book is good enough to overcome the unlikeable character factor; plus the jokes aren't funny.


what jokes? is the Wolverine superbly written? couldn't tell you since i've never been tempted to read about him.

[stuccoyoutuBE]

what jokes?

I know, I know.
I am still trying to figure out why my buddy swore to me that Irredeemable Ant-Man was 'funny as hell'

[Haunt]

I know, I know.
I am still trying to figure out why my buddy swore to me that Irredeemable Ant-Man was 'funny as hell'

situational humour i suppose. only a select few people can pick up on that subtle stuff. i guess it's not as knee-slappingly funny as spiderwoman offering donuts to hardened criminals but it seems to have worked. your buddy sounds like he has good taste.

[SybaritaCybernetico]

I really hate that this book is doing so bad.
At this rate, it will most likely get cancelled before we know it.

I don't think the book is brilliant or anything close to it,(in fact I think it's one of Kirkman's lesser efforts) but it's a book I enjoy very much and a nice lil diversion amongst all the uber-seriousness of CW...

[stuccoyoutuBE]

your buddy sounds like he has good taste.

Taste is something very subjective I guess, but when I let him convince me to buy this Ant-man turd, I should've taken into consideration that he had been anxiously waiting for Onlsaught Reborn and that he considers it an amazing work.
That should've given me pause.

Oh well, it teaches me never to listen to his comic book advice again :)

[Haunt]

I really hate that this book is doing so bad.
At this rate, it will most likely get cancelled before we know it.

I don't think the book is brilliant or anything close to it,(in fact I think it's one of Kirkman's lesser efforts) but it's a book I enjoy very much and a nice lil diversion amongst all the uber-seriousness of CW...

that would be an insult to the rest of the creative team. Kirkman's already stated that it takes him twice as long to write Irredeemable Ant-Man as any of his other books. and Hester is drawing more panels per page than any of the other books. so how could it be a 'lesser' effort? at any rate, i can agree with the last part. the book is a welcome diversion. there's not much else out there that i look forward to reading, right now. it's PAD's X-Factor and Irredeemable Ant-Man, for right now.

Taste is something very subjective I guess, but when I let him convince me to buy this Ant-man turd, I should've taken into consideration that he had been anxiously waiting for Onlsaught Reborn and that he considers it an amazing work.
That should've given me pause.

Oh well, it teaches me never to listen to his comic book advice again :)

by your old posts i see that you're an avid reader of New Avengers. did he talk you into reading that as well or was it Spider-woman like that ChildoftheDarkholde person?

[stuccoyoutuBE]

by your old posts i see that you're an avid reader of New Avengers.


I love that book, one of the best things that Marvel does in my opinion, and I love the team, including but not limited to Spider-Woman (but no, it wasn't my buddy, he likes crap like Ant-Man and Onslaught Reborn and he doesn't care for quality books like NA.
Well, his loss...

Speaking of opinion, why do you get so high strung over negative opinions about the book?
If you enjoy the book, then be happy, buddy..:)

[Haunt]

I love that book, one of the best things that Marvel does in my opinion, and I love the team, including but not limited to Spider-Woman (but no, it wasn't my buddy, he likes crap like Ant-Man and Onslaught Reborn and he doesn't care for quality books like NA.
Well, his loss...

Speaking of opinion, why do you get so high strung over negative opinions about the book?
If you enjoy the book, then be happy, buddy..:)

who is high strung? i'm just playing along because it makes the thread longer and i'm bored. speaking of taking things too seriously, you posted a lot in this thread and you don't like the book. :)

P.S. "I love that book, one of the best things that Marvel does in my opinion," LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL :p

[stuccoyoutuBE]

who is high strung? i'm just playing along because it makes the thread longer and i'm bored. speaking of taking things too seriously, you posted a lot in this thread and you don't like the book. :)


lol!
That is the least convincing backtracking I have ever seen.

"Actually, I am bored and thus angrily replying to every single of the posts that bash my favorite book; That can only help the thread be longer and maybe that will help the book sell better? Right?"
:D


P.S. "I love that book, one of the best things that Marvel does in my opinion," LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9771.html



3-NEW AVENGERS # 25 136,504 orders

122-IRREDEEMABLE ANT-MAN #2 23,191 orders

LOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOLLOL

[Expletive Deleted]

Talk about the comics, not each other.

Thanks.

[drwho]

Judging from the sales on this book I suggest they just call this book Ant Man and have it star Hank Pym. Realistically can't see this book lasting longer unless Marvel is making so much with Civil War that they can have a book this low selling.

[TimmyTony]

Judging from the sales on this book I suggest they just call this book Ant Man and have it star Hank Pym. Realistically can't see this book lasting longer unless Marvel is making so much with Civil War that they can have a book this low selling.

Looking at those sales, I bet a Hank Pym-starring Ant-Man book spinning off CW would sell at least twice what Irredeemable is selling...

[Expletive Deleted]

Put the CIVIL WAR branding on anything and it'll automatically sell double these numbers, Hank Pym or no Hank Pym.

Honestly, I think Ant-Man is just one of those properites that has a great high concept, but can't find a workable hook to save itself.

[Haunt]

lol!
That is the least convincing backtracking I have ever seen.

"Actually, I am bored and thus angrily replying to every single of the posts that bash my favorite book; That can only help the thread be longer and maybe that will help the book sell better? Right?"
:D


i've replied to nearly everyone who posted in this thread; whether they like the book or not. go back to the first page and let the facts speak for themselves. and, yes, this is my favorite book and i haven't given up on it. :)


P.S. i love how people complaining about the character being unlikable suggest replacing the lead with Henry Pym. yeah, Eric took the costume off his dead friend's body to survive a Helicarrier crash. Pym beat his wife, betrayed his teammates, created a mass murdering robot, and helped create the clone that murdered his supposed best friend. yeah, Eric is too unlikable. brilliant.

Put the CIVIL WAR branding on anything and it'll automatically sell double these numbers, Hank Pym or no Hank Pym.

Honestly, I think Ant-Man is just one of those properites that has a great high concept, but can't find a workable hook to save itself.

or maybe people just overlooked it because it's Ant-Man, comics are expensive, and they have other stuff to buy. :)

[TimmyTony]

or maybe people just overlooked it because it's Ant-Man, comics are expensive, and they have other stuff to buy...

...and tons of those who picked up the first issue actually read it and realized it how bad it was.
Maybe.

[Expletive Deleted]

or maybe people just overlooked it because it's Ant-Man, comics are expensive, and they have other stuff to buy. :)Well, yeah. That's where the hook comes in.

I don't have a problem with the "irredeemable" angle, but . . . well, it didn't work. For whatever reason.

[Haunt]

Well, yeah. That's where the hook comes in.

i thought Kirkman (writer of Invincible/Walking Dead/Marvel Zombies) and Phil Hester (Image Comics/Green Arrow Artist Extraordinare) were the hooks?

I don't have a problem with the "irredeemable" angle, but . . . well, it didn't work. For whatever reason.

yeah, if i were to judge it entirely by those sales figures and hadn't actually read the 3 issues, i'd agree with you. but i happen to know that he's building up to something and that the first arc of the story ends at like issue #6. that's when the flashback stuff ends and he continues on with what Ant-Man's doing now. it had to be done this way because of Civil War. like i mentioned, he didn't even officially use the suit until last issue.

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?id=6076

[Expletive Deleted]

...and tons of those who picked up the first issue actually read it and realized it how bad it was.
Maybe.Maybe.

Of course, that would make the retailers psychics. They had to order the second issue before the first even hit stands. A second issue drop is pretty standard. Where ANT-MAN is in trouble is that its first issue sales weren't that great to begin with.

[Young Avenger]

It saddens me that so many people hate this book. I like the book very much and I want to see it succeed. Single issue sales may not be good but I hope that trades sales would be enough to keep it alive much like She-Hulk, Runaways and Spider-Man Loves Mary-Jane.

[Expletive Deleted]

i thought Kirkman (writer of Invincible/Walking Dead/Marvel Zombies) and Phil Hester (Image Comics/Green Arrow Artist Extraordinare) were the hooks?It is, for some of us. Those two being on board certainly got me to give the book a try.

I just think you need a conceptual hook if you want to grab the broader comic book audience. The folks who like Spider-Man and Civil War, but wouldn't know Straczynski or Millar from a hole in the ground. Look at SEVEN SOLDIERS over at DC. The hook was basically Grant Morrison. The books did . . . okay. Not great, but okay. And Morrison is, by most reckonings, a pretty big name. To pull off the creative team hook, you need a Jim Lee or a Neil Gaiman. And even then, it's not guaranteed.

Just my personal theory, of course.

[Haunt]

Maybe.

Of course, that would make the retailers psychics. They had to order the second issue before the first even hit stands. A second issue drop is pretty standard. Where ANT-MAN is in trouble is that its first issue sales weren't that great to begin with.

fair enough. but how many copies did Walking Dead #1 sell? how's it doing now?

[Expletive Deleted]

It's gone from 7k to 21k over the course of its run, thus far.

It's creator owned, though. Different economics.

EDIT: And, I feel compelled to mention, it did have a fairly serious second issue drop. Almost 20%. This type of recovery, as fantastic as it is, is the exception, rather than the rule.

[Mister Mets]

......he still has a long way to go to become as big a jerk-off as pym - wife beating , ultron , giant shoulder pads , ect.
It's been three issues, and an eight-page story in Civil War: Choosing Sides.
Give him time, and he'll top even Ultimate Hank Pym.

Very lackluster issue (I read the first one and decided to give it another issue before dropping the title), but in this one the writing was very disjointed and the alleged jokes went nowhere.
(No wonder the book is doing so bad sales-wise.)
This is the worst book I read this week.
(and in a week that saw me reading Onlaught Reborn, that's saying a lot...)
I disagree on the book being bad, but the low sales have nothing to do with its quality, as the orders for #2 came in before the first issue was published.

I figured that Marvel would've already announced this book's cancellation.
Definitely not Robert Kirkman's best.
Far from it.

Characters are ridiculous (but not in a so-ridiculous-it's-great way), and the pacing is off.

And this book is supposed to be funny, right?
It's been three issues, so it's way too early for them to cancel it yet. The worst Marvel will do is not solicit a second arc.

[Expletive Deleted]

Marvel rarely cancels new books. They let them quietly fade away as retroactively declared mini-series.

[TimmyTony]

Marvel rarely cancels new books. They let them quietly fade away as retroactively declared mini-series.


Have they really done that?
I know I have heard people mention it, but I don't exactly remember any cases myself (though I could swear that Jubilee book was an ongoing that suddenly turned into a mini...)
Any other books that had that happen to them?
Was Thing one of those?

[Young Avenger]

Have they really done that?
I know I have heard people mention it, but I don't exactly remember any cases myself (though I could swear that Jubilee book was an ongoing that suddenly turned into a mini...)
Any other books that had that happen to them?
Was Thing one of those?

The first Mary Jane mini was originally an ongoing. Arana also quietly faded away lasting only 12 issues (I would guess it would be called a maxi-series now).

[TimmyTony]

The first Mary Jane mini was originally an ongoing. Arana also quietly faded away lasting only 12 issues (I would guess it would be called a maxi-series now).


Yeah, I remember all the hype over Arana, only to quietly disappear (even though she is appearing in Ms. Marvel)

[Haunt]

It's gone from 7k to 21k over the course of its run, thus far.

It's creator owned, though. Different economics.

EDIT: And, I feel compelled to mention, it did have a fairly serious second issue drop. Almost 20%. This type of recovery, as fantastic as it is, is the exception, rather than the rule.


well it's significant to people who dropped after issue 2 of Irredeemable Ant-Man. same writer. maybe it takes him longer to get warmed up than most. beats me. i enjoyed issue 3 significantly more than i did issue #1 (which i was worried about). i fully expect to enjoy issue #5 more than i did issue #3. i'm all for the soap opera moments but i also appreciate knock down drag down fights; which i can fully expect when Mitch Carson catchs up to Eric in his own Ant-Man armor.

anyways, there's little point in just butting heads with other posters whose opinion consists of "this is terrible. it will be cancelled soon." that's not much of a review. so i'll just post the most recent review of issue 3.


http://www.comicboards.com/reviews.php?ReviewID=58

"When last we left our hero, in the present, Eric O’Grady was taking a woman whose life he saved out for dinner (even though she paid) and then got invited back to her place. In the past, Eric had lifted the Ant-Man armor off his dead buddy and used it to survive the crash of the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier.

Today, Eric is using the armor to have awkward moments with his date, get kicked out and then come back shrunken down to watch her shower.
Don’t scoff. That’s how Tom Cruise ended up with Katie Holmes.

Anyways, the bulk of the story is yet again, in the flashbacks. We pick up after the events of issue two (in the past) and in the aftermath of the attack on the helicarrier, Eric and Veronica are given some time off in which they go to Chris and Eric’s hometown for Chris’ funeral. After an awkward outing for Eric fighting crime in the Ant-Man armor ending in failure, the look back is capped off by Eric trying to have sex with his dead friend’s girl on his grave after putting the moves on her the whole issue! Never mind the crossing of moral and ethical lines here, that just doesn’t seem sanitary. Frankly, this is such an awful act that I’m wondering less of how to make Eric sympathetic or redeem him and more of what writer Robert Kirkman can do to top this! I mean we’re three issues in and he’s sold out his friend, gotten people killed and tried nailing some grieving individual in a cemetery. Outside of punching old women or violating livestock, it’s tough to sink lower.

But as if things weren’t bad enough for Eric, his old buddy Mitch and S.H.I.E.L.D. are closing in on him. And apparently, we’re given some hint as to what caused Mitch’s scars during a scene in the past where Hank Pym and Director Hill give him his orders: Find the stolen Ant-Man armor. And to do this, he’s going to be given his own less-than-optimal set of shrinking armor. Things don’t seem to bode well for ol’ Mitch. Unfortunately, there’s not much follow-up on Nick Fury, as he disappears after Eric helps him get medical attention. I hope there is, as I’d like there to be some sort of reason for bringing him in at all.

The art is continuing to improve, but I’m starting to wonder if it’s intentional that the individual panels are so small in a series about a character like Ant-Man. Just sayin’.

Next issue: The boom gets lowered (maybe) and it’s Ant-Man versus Ant-Man if the cover is any indicator."

[TimmyTony]

anyways, there's little point in just butting heads with other posters whose opinion consists of "this is terrible. it will be cancelled soon." [/I]

Which is as valid an opinion as "I don't care if it gets cancelled soon, this books is excellent"
And as valid as the opinion/review of Arsenal that you linked to, a fanboy just like all of us here.
As valid as this review from Silver Bullet Comics:

Kirkman’s writing is good in general, but has its flaws. Some of the pacing is confusing and unsettling as scenes break abruptly to the point needless expositional captions become needed, and in turn dumb down the scenes with unexceptional wording. As I mentioned about the previous issue, some of the occurrences are plot driven and feel as so, but it’s an exception not the rule. And finally, some of the dialogue is just clumsy and unnatural, but that could be given to preference.

[Haunt]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=93871

The Irredeemable Ant-Man # 3
Written by Robert Kirkman
Pencils and Cover by Phil Hester
Inks by Ande Parks
Colors by Bill Crabtree
Letters by Rus Wooton of VC

"Another strong issue this month for The Irredeemable Ant-Man; and, while this isn’t exactly a “must read” title, it’s hard to find any reasons why you shouldn’t. I know a lot of people are having a hard time dealing with the main character being such a jerk, but I find that to be part of the charm of the book. I spoke with Phil Hester about the book this summer at Wizard World Chicago, where he informed me that he is having more fun working on this book than he has in a long time. In regards to the character, he told me that Ant-Man isn’t supposed to be unlikable, he just isn’t your typical hero. One of the things he said that really stuck with me is that, given the chance, the new Ant-Man would definitely save your life (provided he wouldn’t have to risk his), but he would probably take your wallet in the process.

This month finds our title “hero” dealing with the death of his best friend, Chris, in the aftermath of the attack on the SHEILD hellicarrier. In the process of grieving, Eric makes a move on Chris’s former girlfriend, Veronica (on Chris’s grave!) and begins to learn a little bit more in terms of controlling the Ant-Man armor. All the while, he is being hunted down by Mitch, who now has a prototype Ant-Man armor that was given to him by Hank Pym. In the present, Eric’s date doesn’t end as well as he would like, but he finds a way to see some boobs anyway.

While I’m not sure how much longer it will work out, Kirkman does a great job of balancing the pre-Civil War and post-Civil War stories, showing a nice dichotomy of Eric dealing with the armor for the first time and being Ant-Man full-time. His characters continue to be strong and relatable, making this a book more about the “everyman” Marvel Universe than the high-profile world of superheroes we are accustomed to. While this isn’t Kirkman’s best work, it is definitely a notch better than his other Marvel book (Ultimate X-Men).

Again, though, the strength of this book is the art by Hester and Parks. The clean lines and superb design looks fantastic, as the team never misses a step while moving from tight grids to splash pages. I’m a huge fan of their work to begin with, but this is definitely the best superhero work I’ve seen from the duo.

The Irredeemable Ant-Man is an easy book to overlook, but is one that I would recommend checking out. It’s not exactly essential to your collection, but its an enjoyable read with some fantastic art by one of the best pencils-and-ink teams in the business.

Story: B Despite being so densely packed (a lot happens in each issue thanks to the very tight panels), the story hasn’t move a whole lot in the first three issues. There has been some great characterization, but I’m still not sure where the book is heading and that is a bit frustrating. This isn’t quite The Walking Dead, but Kirkman is doing some good work here.
Art: A I will give anything that Hester and Parks do a try, but this book really stands out. Green Arrow may have been their breakout superhero book, but this book will stand as their best in the genre.
Cover: B With so much going on in the book, this cover grabs a pretty minimally important scene, but it is executed well. I’d like to see Hester/Parks branch out to some more interesting territory for the covers (like they did for issue #1), but this is still a nice cover."