Frank Langford & Batman - early 1970s?

[Shaqui]

Hi

I am helping the niece of the late artist and illustrator Frank Langford, to piece together his career and work - she having inherited his collection of artwork and material upon the death of his wife.

Among some original artwork pages for the DC Comics girls romance titles Young Love, Young Romance and Heart Throbs in the collection, is a cutting - possibly from the same early 1970s period - that says '46 year old strip artist Frank Langford has won the acclaim of his opposite numbers in the United States.*He has been nominated for one of the awards of the Academy of Comic Book Arts of New York.

There are 11 categories in the awards and Mr. Langford is one of four artists nominated for the best foreign comic aware for strip cartoons.*The others are a Spaniard and two French artists.

Mr. Langford has drawn for the American Batman comics for four years, portraying a variety of characters.'

- Searching the internet, I can find no mention of Langford's contribution to the Batman titles, and wonder if these were largely uncredited. However, he did often sign his work, and wonder if any experts here know of his work on the titles, and can point me to issues he worked on, to help piece together his career for a retrospective feature.

Many thanks in advance,

Shaqui

The Gerry Anderson Complete Comic History
http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Home.htm
.

[Shaqui]

Here is Frank Langford's signature from one of the romance artworks:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/MandyUK/LondonTown01.jpg

:cool:

[Greg Hatcher]

No knowledge but two guesses:

If Mr. Langford was working for Bob Kane on Batman at any point, Kane would have signed his own name to it, he never let his assistants have any credit and in fact had it in his contract that everything had to be credited to "Bob Kane." This would have been earlier than the 1970's, though.

Alternatively, if the clipping is dated a little earlier than the 70's it might be the writer was conflating DC Comics, the company, with Batman comics, the DC publication. That happened a lot in newspapers at the time, it was still all about Adam West for them.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shazam_Award) is a listing of the Shazam awards, the ones the Academy gave out. I don't see Mr. Langford's name anywhere but it's an incomplete list. Finding out what he was nominated for would probably go a long way towards answering the question.

[Aaron Kashtan]

This site (http://users.rcn.com/aardy/comics/awards/index.html) is the best resource for information about comics awards, although it's far from complete.

Langford has an entry in the late Dr. Jerry Bails's Who's Who of American Comic Books (http://www.bailsprojects.com/(S(bto22rnl4wjrjbq1w4pwzo24))/bio.aspx?Name=LANGFORD%2c+FRANK). This entry doesn't mention anything about Batman.

Overall, Greg's hypothesis sounds reasonable to me-- perhaps the writer thought that all DC comics were Batman comics. Sloppy mistakes like this are, unfortunately, rather common in journalism about comics.

If you need more information, you might try contacting Randy Scott (http://www.lib.msu.edu/scottr/) at the Michigan State University Library, which has the nation's best collection of comics materials. He might be able to direct your search further.

[Shaqui]

Thanks Greg and Tim (and to Moderator Jaye, who added my posting to this section! :) ) - this helps shed some light on the issue.

Looking at the Wikipedia entry, I see they have Frank Bellamy as Best Foreign Artist for 'Star Trek', only he never drew the strip! I recall the confusion over this, as someone saw his promotional artwork for the start of the second run of the series in the UK, in the TV listings magazine 'Radio Times':

http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Artists/BellamyTrekC.jpg

- and assumed he was a regular strip artist for it!

Like Bellamy, Frank Langford was a British artist working freelance, doing his own pencils and inks (and in the UK, colours) so would never have worked under, say, Bob Kane. The romance material he pencilled and inked, but some of the originals I have seen, including two pages which may never have been published called 'London Town', have his notes in the margin for (presumably) the American colourist.

The confusion with Bellamy gives some clues. Having returned from Langord's niece's place, I have found some Batman orientated adverts - he seemingly chosen to emulate the superhero genre in a number of drawn and storyboarded animation TV adverts. These are undated but its possible these are what he was nominated for...

:cool:

[MichikoS]

Shaqui, some cursory research revealed that Langford worked on several issues of COUNTDOWN aka TV ACTION in the early '70s. Could he have drawn some house ads for American comics that may have led to the confusion of his being identified as a Batman artist? Does seem a bit of a stretch, but misattributions and misstatements made in print are incredibly difficult to correct.

Michi

[Cei-U!]

What is the source of the quote in the first post? It sounds to me like "the American Batman comics" is a foreign journalist's misidentification of DC, not a literal credit

Cei-U!
I summon the fresh POV!

[T GUy]

I summon Cei-U!

It sounds to me like "the American Batman comics" is a foreign journalist's misidentification of DC, not a literal credit

Yes, this theory was one I came up with (as did Greg H. above, I note). I am more inclined to believe inaccurate journalism than a lack of knowledge on the part of the posters on this forum.

I summon a journalist!

Mr. Langford has drawn for the American Batman comics for four years, portraying a variety of characters.

Well, I've seen precisely one story drawn by Langford in a U. S. publication - an early '70s DC romance book. It may be relevent to note here that I've got all but about a dozen issues of the three main Batcomics from that entire decade.

[Cei-U!]

Yes, this theory was one I came up with (as did Greg H. above, I note).

Don't ask me how I managed to gloss over that part of Greg's post. And here I thought I was so clever!

Cei-U!
I summon the deflated hubris!

[jam]

Thanks Greg and Tim (and to Moderator Jaye, who added my posting to this section! :) ) - this helps shed some light on the issue.

Like Bellamy, Frank Langford was a British artist working freelance, doing his own pencils and inks (and in the UK, colours) so would never have worked under, say, Bob Kane. The romance material he pencilled and inked, but some of the originals I have seen, including two pages which may never have been published called 'London Town', have his notes in the margin for (presumably) the American colourist.


As a fan of British comics back in the day, I was wondering if Shaqui could indicate what strips he worked on, to see if I can remember his work.

Speaking of Britain, does anyone remember a strange UK Batman annual which was really a story book with illustrations. I can't remember much about it myself except it was a distinctly different interpretation of the character. I can't even remember in what way it differed ...

[Shaqui]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Frank Langford was his professional pseudonym, and unlikely - given how popular his name was in the UK and possibly Europe - to have changed it again.

It seems increasingly likely Langford was drawing something in the UK, possibly adverts. The quote was from a local newspaper reporting on one of its star residents, and having worked on local newspapers myself (as artist) I'm aware of how sub-editing and lack of expert knowledge can - even with the best of intentions - slightly muddle reporting!

Even fans can make the same slips, and a copy of a page from a 1970 US comic fanzine states Frank Langford studied at Willesdam (which doesn't appear to exist, so is probably Willesden), and under sculptor Georges Re't(?)! This same fan article states he drew Thunderbirds, which he didn't - he drew Lady Penelope in the comic of the same name. Thunderbirds was actually drawn by Frank Bellamy - mentioned above in relation to confusion over Star Trek!

But at least you guys seem to confirm he probably didn't draw Batman for the US.

You can see examples of some of his outstanding colour work for Lady Penelope at the website I edit with fellow fan Kim Stevens:

Lady Penelope: 1966 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload03/LadyPenelope02.htm)

Lady Penelope: 1967 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload04/LadyPenelope03.htm)

Lady Penelope As A Young Girl: 1968 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload04/PenelopeAsAGirl01.htm)

- he also drew two complete b/w strips of The Protectors:

The Protectors: 1973 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload01/Protectors.htm)

- Hope that might ring some bells with you all!

:cool:

[jam]

Thanks again for the input guys.

You can see examples of some of his outstanding colour work for Lady Penelope at the website I edit with fellow fan Kim Stevens:

Lady Penelope: 1966 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload03/LadyPenelope02.htm)

Lady Penelope: 1967 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload04/LadyPenelope03.htm)

Lady Penelope As A Young Girl: 1968 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload04/PenelopeAsAGirl01.htm)

- he also drew two complete b/w strips of The Protectors:

The Protectors: 1973 (http://www.technodelic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Upload01/Protectors.htm)

- Hope that might ring some bells with you all!

:cool:

OK I was a reader of TV21 but I never bought the Lady Penelope comic as that was for girls. (I wouldn't let that stop me these days). Some lovely work on the links you provided but, if he didn't work for TV21, then I guess my youth was that much dimmer for not seeing his art.

p.s. by the way, great website! I'm sure I've visited it before now ...

[Shaqui]

I visited at the weekend, and there are several printed items showing 'Batman' and various other superheroes. I gather these are probably advertisement related, and took a picture of one:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/MandyUK/LangfordBatman.jpg

:cool:

[jam]

I visited at the weekend, and there are several printed items showing 'Batman' and various other superheroes. I gather these are probably advertisement related, and took a picture of one

What the heck has the last "naughty" panel got to do with anything?

[Shaqui]

What the heck has the last "naughty" panel got to do with anything?

Not knowing what the original source of this is, I have absolutely no idea...

:rolleyes:

[Greg Hatcher]

What the heck has the last "naughty" panel got to do with anything?

I couldn't tell you either but it instantly rules out any publication anywhere in the U.S.

There are some interesting anomalies about it though. The Batman figure looks like it was referenced from early 70's Novick-Giordano, but Green Arrow's look dates back considerably earlier. If it's an ad I certainly couldn't tell what it was for.

It reminds me of the Sunday funnies more than anything. It almost looks like some kind of British knockoff of the Superman/JLA newspaper strip that Martin Pasko and George Tuska worked on.

[Rob Imes]

The use of the word "whilst" in the caption suggests a British writer, perhaps for a British audience not American. The rich colors shown reminds me of the coloring that I've seen in some hardcover British annuals, which were mostly B&W but sometimes contained color sections. Did DC characters have any British Annuals? Since many TV series had their own Annuals, it seems plausible to think that Batman did, too.

Also I know that DC did have some comics that were produced exclusively for the foreign market. One such story was published in an early 1980s issue of Superman.

[MartinPasko]

Shaqui, as BATMAN editor Julie Schwartz's editorial assistant in 1973, during which period Julie shared with me virtually all of the "behind the scenes" stories re. the BATMAN books from 1964 on (and I worked with the man until he gave up those titles circa 1978), I can state without fear of contradiction that no one named Frank Langford was ever a "direct contributor" to Batman art. As for the possibility that he might have been a subcontractor to Bob Kane, which arrangement ended in 1968 when Irv Novick and Bob Brown took over pencilling chores, with credit, on the BATMAN titles, the other posters to this thread seem to have addressed that correctly.

As for verifying Mr. Langford's contribution to the DC romance books, I believe there is only one surviving person still in the comic book business who might be able and willing to help you, and that is Allan Asherman. Allan was the DC librarian as of the end of 2005 and may still be employed in that capacity -- though I don't know for certain -- and he might be able to assist not only in his official capacity but also because he had to pinch-hit in Editorial on the romance titles of this period, and the name Frank Langford may be familiar to him in that context. He can be reached at DC if he still works there.

Two other people still surviving who might know about the romance books, though I can't attest to their interest level, are Ethan Mordden, the writer of entertainment nonfiction books who, early in his career, was the assistant to the late Dorothy Woolfolk, last editor of the ongoing romance titles; Bob Rozakis, who was a "story editor" on DC's last attempt to revive the romance titles in the very early '70s; and Jeff Rovin, a writer who was a contemporary of Ethan Mordden's at DC at the time (c. 1970) and who, like Allan Asherman, might be able to point you in the right direction. Unfortunately, I don't feel it appropriate to give you direct contact information in either a private or public forum, as I have no way of securing the parties' permission, but I offer you the names to pursue with whatever success your "detective" skills and the information-gathering power of the internet will afford you. I hope this is helpful.

[Shaqui]

Hello Martin

Many thanks for your contribution to all this. I was, from previous posts, beginning to suspect a journalistic 'cross-wire', and you seem to confirm that. By this time, circa 1970, he was a big name in the UK, and was apparently making his name in the USA with the DC romance titles.

I am in touch with Marv Wolfman, who apparently worked with Langford on these DC titles, but nothing about 'Batman' has been forthcoming. I suspect, as you've been able to almost confirm, Langford was probably drawing 'Batman' related material in the UK. There were British annuals, purely generated in the UK, sometimes with an abridged US comic strip reprinted inside. As someone not familiar with these, I'll make enquiries and see what I turn up. However Langford was a top artist, highly in demand, and rates for annual artwork were pretty meagre! But stranger things have happened, and I'll keep an open mind in my research.

I'm familiar, even being in the UK, with the name Allan Asherman, and I'll chase up these names you've provided to see if I can find contact addresses.

Thanks again for all your help.

:)

[T GUy]

I second Shaqui's thanks, Martin. However:


As for verifying Mr. Langford's contribution to the DC romance books...

the late Dorothy Woolfolk, last editor of the ongoing romance titles

Frank Langford's contribution is verified by his signature on at least one story in an issue in my collection, edited by, IIRR, Robert Kanigher, from after the Dorothy Woolfolk era.

To go back to the original question: I suspect that the Batman sample in question is U. K. advertising art from somewhere. The possibility of a bare breast in a U. K. annual is so remote as to be almost completely discountable.

[MartinPasko]

Frank Langford's contribution is verified by his signature on at least one story in an issue in my collection, edited by, IIRR, Robert Kanigher, from after the Dorothy Woolfolk era.

If Mr. Langford was indeed engaged by the late Bob Kanigher, then Allan Asherman is definitely someone Shaqui should try to contact, because Allan was Kanigher's assistant around this time. I didn't mention this earlier because I wasn't sure whether Kanigher was assigned romance books when he returned to DC as an editor in 1971 after a three-year absence; when I first got to know Allan, he was only assisting Bob on LOIS LANE and WONDER WOMAN -- the romance books were winding down, and were all-reprint by that point.

[Shaqui]

To go back to the original question: I suspect that the Batman sample in question is U. K. advertising art from somewhere. The possibility of a bare breast in a U. K. annual is so remote as to be almost completely discountable.

Absolutely - I took the photo as an example of the fact Langford was drawing Batman, but that definitely isn't a UK annual or comic piece either. It was a standalone printed item with no identification or date, possibly a sample or self-promotion piece.

:rolleyes:

[Shaqui]

Frank Langford's contribution is verified by his signature on at least one story in an issue in my collection, edited by, IIRR, Robert Kanigher, from after the Dorothy Woolfolk era.

Original artwork pages from several different romance issues are held in the collection:

Young Love #90 & #99
Falling In Love #139
Heart Throbs #143
Young Romance #174 & #190

plus

opening two pages of a strip called 'London Town' which are marked 'Omit this page' and which might not have been published.

:o

[Shaqui]

Here is a photo I took of the first page of the mysterious 'London Town' strip:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v464/MandyUK/LondonTown01-1.jpg

Can anyone verify if it was published or not? It's dated '4/8/70' at the top but also has a stamp on it which is 'N.P.P. (i.e. National Periodical Publications) INVT'Y 9/30/71'?

:rolleyes:

[Shaqui]

I can now confirm the two omitted pages from 'London Town' appear to be the original opener to the strip 'Love Came In London', which appeared in issue 190 of 'Young Romance', dated January 1973. 'Denisse' appears in the top frame of page 2, wearing the same tunic dress and carrying the same shoulder bag, as the 'new' opening frame of the first page of the coloured and printed strip.

Now, interesting question: why would a strip be commissioned and drawn, only to have two pages omitted? I'm assuming also, as the script of the omitted pages doesn't quite tie up to the printied strip, that the 'new' intro script was written for what was effectively the original third page.

Also, does anyone know what the policy was for artists having their artwork returned during this period?

:)

[Red Oak Kid]

.

Also, does anyone know what the policy was for artists having their artwork returned during this period?



I don't think the policy of returning artwork was in place at this time. I think it was sometime after 75 when it became the norm. And even then, the artist did not get all of it. A certain percentage of pages were given to the writer.

[Shaqui]

Thanks for that.

Would you know if an artist got the artwork if requested, especially if they were in another country? (Langford was in the UK)

I noticed on later Langford illustrations a label saying 'return to artist' but assumed this was something he was able to do by that time, owing to his being quite a big name in advertising.

:o

[Red Oak Kid]

Thanks for that.

Would you know if an artist got the artwork if requested, especially if they were in another country? (Langford was in the UK)

I noticed on later Langford illustrations a label saying 'return to artist' but assumed this was something he was able to do by that time, owing to his being quite a big name in advertising.

:o

I would have no way of knowing for sure. But I can speculate. :)

In a published interview, Neal Adams, who had come from the advertising world to the comic book world, said he was shocked when he saw how artwork was handled by DC in the mid 60s. He said in the world of advertising, the art was treated with respect by all who handled it and anytime he wanted his originals back, he knew exactly where they were kept and could retrieve them whenever he wanted. At DC there was a long standing tradition of cutting up the art on a chopping board.

The Romance comics were pretty low on the totem pole and I would suspect those pages would be treated with even less respect than the superhero stuff that was being destroyed on a regular basis.

It would depend on what sort of relationship Langford had with the DC editor. Also, it might depend on the time lag between the time he submitted the art and the time it was actually printed. Most of DC's horror and romance comics had a pretty big backlog of stories. So a lot of time could pass between when it was bought and when it was used. The fact that they cut out two pages indicates the story was thought of as a way to fill out an issue rather than being the work of an artist they had any close ties to.

So unless Langford had some sort of solid relationship with the editor I would guess that the art was not returned.

But this is all pure speculation on my part.

[T GUy]

Shaqui,
I noticed on later Langford illustrations a label saying 'return to artist'

I now recall a mention in Nick Landau's Comic Media News (or possibly a different U. K. fanzine) that some (U. K. ) organisation had produced sticky labels stating 'Property of the artist. To be returned' to be fixed to originals. This would be mid- or late- 'seventies.

I doubt that Langford would have any contact with Neal Adams or any organisation he was involved in. I could be proved wrong on that one.

[Shaqui]

Most of DC's horror and romance comics had a pretty big backlog of stories. So a lot of time could pass between when it was bought and when it was used. The fact that they cut out two pages indicates the story was thought of as a way to fill out an issue rather than being the work of an artist they had any close ties to..

Yes - as noted the omitted pages have 70 and 71 as years when (presumably) drawn, and then received/catalogued by DC, and then not printed until the end of 1972.

:rolleyes:

[Shaqui]

Frank Langford's contribution is verified by his signature on at least one story in an issue in my collection, edited by, IIRR, Robert Kanigher, from after the Dorothy Woolfolk era.

I forgot to ask, T. Guy, is the issue one of those I listed?:

Young Love #90 & #99
Falling In Love #139
Heart Throbs #143
Young Romance #174 & #190

- if not, can I have details please? Thanks.

:)

[Bill Angus]

I would have no way of knowing for sure. But I can speculate. :)

In a published interview, Neal Adams, who had come from the advertising world to the comic book world, said he was shocked when he saw how artwork was handled by DC in the mid 60s. He said in the world of advertising, the art was treated with respect by all who handled it and anytime he wanted his originals back, he knew exactly where they were kept and could retrieve them whenever he wanted. At DC there was a long standing tradition of cutting up the art on a chopping board.

The Romance comics were pretty low on the totem pole and I would suspect those pages would be treated with even less respect than the superhero stuff that was being destroyed on a regular basis.

It would depend on what sort of relationship Langford had with the DC editor. Also, it might depend on the time lag between the time he submitted the art and the time it was actually printed. Most of DC's horror and romance comics had a pretty big backlog of stories. So a lot of time could pass between when it was bought and when it was used. The fact that they cut out two pages indicates the story was thought of as a way to fill out an issue rather than being the work of an artist they had any close ties to.

So unless Langford had some sort of solid relationship with the editor I would guess that the art was not returned.

But this is all pure speculation on my part.

Another possibility is that if Langford was accustomed to working in advertising (as Adams was), he may have stamped 'return to artist' on all of his work as a matter of course.

And, of course, the practices in the UK may have been completely different, and he was simply following the pattern he was used to there.

That's not saying the (U.S.) work in question was returned, of course...

[Red Oak Kid]

Another possibility is that if Langford was accustomed to working in advertising (as Adams was), he may have stamped 'return to artist' on all of his work as a matter of course.

And, of course, the practices in the UK may have been completely different, and he was simply following the pattern he was used to there.

That's not saying the (U.S.) work in question was returned, of course...

That is a great point. I'll bet that is what he did.

He should have stamped his work for American comics; "Do not chop up".:eek: