View Full Version : Someone Please Explain The Attraction to Dr. Who
malephoenix
12-01-2006, 10:52 PM
I've seen a couple episodes, and I just don't get the following. Usually I can understand the following, even if I don't dig the show. But I'm at a loss here.
Is it one of those things that you have to see from the beginning to really appreciate, like Lost or Alias?
ragnarok_2012
12-01-2006, 11:00 PM
There's a little bit of nostalgia involved.
I think it's good, silly fun. Interesting characters combined with decent acting, fun Whedonesque dialogue and heart. The episodes don't hold up under analysis, I'm afraid. You could fly the Millenium Falcon through the plotholes.
Which episodes have you watched, and what specifically did you think of them?
Nope.
We actually like it because we think its good.
Chris N
12-01-2006, 11:01 PM
Depends on the doctor, but the current one and at least 3 others are just that damn hot.
Sean Whitmore
12-01-2006, 11:02 PM
Is it one of those things that you have to see from the beginning to really appreciate, like Lost or Alias?
Quite the opposite. It's a 40-some year old show, and I got hooked on it just watching the new season last year.
I just find the character of the Doctor (all of them) utterly enjoyable. Sarcastic and arrogant, lives for adventure and exploration, completely just...always outnumbered and outgunned, and has to beat his enemies with his wits...it's like they mixed Superman, Captain Kirk, and John Constantine into one.
Plus, it's a concept with limitless possibilities. An explorer in a machine that travels through time and space...you can play with any and every genre.
SEAN
ragnarok_2012
12-01-2006, 11:04 PM
He's intelligent but flawed. He can be dark without also being violent.
He's a snappy dresser.
He has a cute assistant. :)
On a bit of a tangent: can anyone else see James Callis as the Doctor?
malephoenix
12-01-2006, 11:10 PM
Which episodes have you watched, and what specifically did you think of them?
I saw most of the episode with Anthony Stewart Head and a bunch of monsters in a high school and this entire episode tonight about...the devil and a black hole??? I watched a good deal of the first episode of this two-parter, but I was dealing with some frustrating stuff at the time, so I didn't really take it in very much.
He has a cute assistant.
This is one of my problems, I think. I not only find this Rose to be a bad actress, but I also can't make myself find her attractive. And before someone says something, it's not just b/c she's white; I just...don't see why she's on the show.
ragnarok_2012
12-01-2006, 11:19 PM
I saw most of the episode with Anthony Stewart Head and a bunch of monsters in a high school and this entire episode tonight about...the devil and a black hole??? I watched a good deal of the first episode of this two-parter, but I was dealing with some frustrating stuff at the time, so I didn't really take it in very much.
This is one of my problems, I think. I not only find this Rose to be a bad actress, but I also can't make myself find her attractive. And before someone says something, it's not just b/c she's white; I just...don't see why she's on the show.
I really liked those episodes (though I think ASH could have been better used). Honestly, if you don't like those two episodes then Doctor Who probably isn't for you.
Otherwise, I'd try to entice you with the next companion....
http://cuppacafe.com/images/blogimages/drwho3.jpg
Sanagi
12-01-2006, 11:25 PM
The new series is pretty much just damn good. There have been weak episodes, but generally it surpassed any expectations I had. That said, if the David Tennant version of the character isn't to your liking you might want to give season one, with Christopher Eccleston, a try.
The old series, though it definitely had its high points over the years, is the kind of classic scifi that you have to accept as a creation of its time and that hasn't aged well. The pacing tended to be very slow and it had a shoestring budget. And there are big dry spells where the show went a bit off the rails. I say all this as someone who really likes the series, BTW...
A lot of the show's lasting appeal comes from the flexibility of the premise. The main character can go anywhere he wants in time and space, so the series can explore just about any kind of setting and plot it wants to.
malephoenix
12-01-2006, 11:37 PM
I really liked those episodes (though I think ASH could have been better used). Honestly, if you don't like those two episodes then Doctor Who probably isn't for you.
Otherwise, I'd try to entice you with the next companion....
http://cuppacafe.com/images/blogimages/drwho3.jpg
...who's she?:o :o :o
ragnarok_2012
12-01-2006, 11:46 PM
...who's she?:o :o :o
Season 3.
Coming soon.
Paul McEnery
12-02-2006, 01:09 AM
Start from ep1 series 1.
Which is to say, the episode Eccleston picks up Rose.
The entire season is, without a doubt, the best SF anyone's ever done on TV.
And quite possibly ever.
Mind, I say that as a bigarse fan.
Still, anyone who says otherwise is a giant dork.
Wesley Dodds
12-02-2006, 01:32 AM
Personally, I wasn't crazy about Christopher Eccleston but I've been really impressed with David Tennant's "hyper" Doctor. He's Colin Baker without the evil!
Sean Whitmore
12-02-2006, 01:41 AM
Personally, I wasn't crazy about Christopher Eccleston but I've been really impressed with David Tennant's "hyper" Doctor. He's Colin Baker without the evil!
Colin Baker wasn't evil. Looking at his costume just drove him insane.
SEAN
Colin Baker's run was probably the worst time for Doctor Who, though it wasn't Colin's fault. BBC Higherups were doing their best to covertly scuttle the show simply because the BBC #1 didn't like it.
Start from ep1 series 1.
Which is to say, the episode Eccleston picks up Rose.
Episode one would actually be the one aired in 1963 called An Unearthly Child starring William Hartnell as the Doctor ... :D
In short, I like Doctor Who because the hero doesn't rely on violence ... instead he uses his intelligence and wit to overcome his foes. The highlight of the show for me was the second half of Sylvestor McCoy's run when the show seemed to grow up a lot and stories stopped being as nearly as simple as they were (and are now, really).
Wesley Dodds
12-02-2006, 02:11 AM
Basically, it's that the Doctor uses his intelligence and humanism to fight evil. He's not gung ho. If he's captured (note: this happens a lot), he's not going to tackle one of the guards; he'll just buy for time and find some clever way of winning.
Different Doctors have different appeals. McCoy was a cross between a clown and a chess grandmaster. The quintessential McCoy moment is at the end of The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. He spends the episode performing simple magic tricks for the Gods of Ragnarok but still manages to destroy them (McCoy, like the current Doctor, played for keeps).
There's Tom Baker: funny, relaxed, humane and charismatic. Jon Pertwee: foremost a scientist. Peter Davison: kind and gentle. Etc.
Wesley Dodds
12-02-2006, 02:12 AM
And for the record, my favourite story is Tomb of the Cybermen.
Although, I haven't seen Genesis of the Daleks yet, so who knows?
Iangould
12-02-2006, 02:30 AM
I saw most of the episode with Anthony Stewart Head and a bunch of monsters in a high school and this entire episode tonight about...the devil and a black hole??? I watched a good deal of the first episode of this two-parter, but I was dealing with some frustrating stuff at the time, so I didn't really take it in very much.
The black hole story is the weakest of the new series.
If I'm remembering correctly, the high school episode is the one in which k-9 and Sarah Jane come back.
That one does rely quite a lot on knowing the backstory of those characters.
Iangould
12-02-2006, 02:32 AM
In short, I like Doctor Who because the hero doesn't rely on violence ... instead he uses his intelligence and wit to overcome his foes.
Just so long as he doesn't use Venusian-bloody-karate.
Janus thorns are cool though.
Sean Whitmore
12-02-2006, 02:34 AM
To be fair, although the Doctor eschews violence, many, MANY times the day is saved because someone else (a companion, the guest star of the week) employs it.
SEAN
Iangould
12-02-2006, 02:36 AM
To be fair, although the Doctor eschews violence, many, MANY times the day is saved because someone else (a companion, the guest star of the week) employs it.
SEAN
And the current doctor wielded a sword in the Christmas Special.
The black hole story is the weakest of the new series.
What? It was one of the better ones! The weakest ones were Love & Monsters, Fear Her and that one with The Wire.
Spike-X
12-02-2006, 02:42 AM
And the current doctor wielded a sword in the Christmas Special.
That's because he had a fightin' hand!
Spike-X
12-02-2006, 02:43 AM
What? It was one of the better ones! The weakest ones were Love & Monsters, Fear Her and that one with The Wire.
I agree with every word of this.
I don't hate Love & Monsters the way some fans do. It was an interesting experiment.
Ontir
12-02-2006, 02:44 AM
I've seen a couple episodes, and I just don't get the following. Usually I can understand the following, even if I don't dig the show. But I'm at a loss here.
Is it one of those things that you have to see from the beginning to really appreciate, like Lost or Alias?
Not at all. I came aboard with Jon Pertwee, the 3rd "Doctor." He was something of a swashbuckler, and worked for U.N.I.T. (United Nations Intelligence Taskforce) on Earth, and wandered the stars getting into all sorts of trouble. When he left, the Doctor regenerated into Tom Baker.
Baker's Doctor, was somewhat innocent. He always looked at things with wonderment, and where Pertwee's Dr. would act swiftly and decisively, rarely second-guessing, Baker's Dr. would be troubled by the moral implications of his actions.
Those are the 2 I know the best, aside from the Eccleston and Tennant incarnations. Each actor gets to bring new and specific qualities to their version of the character. That's what makes the show forever new. It changes radically with each new actor in the lead, and every companion to enter the TARDIS.
The Doctor also has some unique gadgetry: The TARDIS, or Time and Relative Dimensions in Space machine, which is a self-propelled tessaract (which my father always compared favourably to Snoopy's doghouse), and the ever ready Sonic Screwdriver. An all-purpose device, capable of aiding in escape from almost any sticky wicket. Then, of course, there are the builders of the TARDIS, the Time Lords of Gallifrey. Each one capable of not only extremely long life-spans; but extension of those spans, via complete molecular regeneration. A handy trick, when there are creatures like the Daleks on the loose! They may look like giant salt-shakers; but inside the rather formidable personal tanks, is an xenophobic, megalomaniacal killer, eager to slay everything that isn't Dalek. They firmly believe that the universe will be perfect, when only they live in it. Their uncomplicated genocidal nature sets them apart from most sci-fi, in which we find often horrific alien races, who can, in time, be reasoned with. This will never be the case for the Daleks, because that's the way Davros programmed their instincts.
If all that doesn't make you want to watch, well, I guess it's just not your show!
Spike-X
12-02-2006, 02:47 AM
The Doctor also has some unique gadgetry: ...the ever ready Sonic Screwdriver. An all-purpose device, capable of aiding in escape from almost any sticky wicket.
Am I the only one who thinks the Screwdriver was way overused this year? The Doctor used it for everything from lighting candles (never heard of matches?), to remotely detonating explosives (a legitimate use, IMO).
That's because he had a fightin' hand!
Various Doctors have displayed various fighting skills in the past. The 2nd and 3rd knew and demonstrated Venusian Karate. The 4th had great sword skills as did the 7th, for example.
The 7th also demonstrated the ability to drop a man to the floor by touching him gently on the forehead.
Jeff Brady
12-02-2006, 02:54 AM
Start from ep1 series 1.
Which is to say, the episode Eccleston picks up Rose.
The entire season is, without a doubt, the best SF anyone's ever done on TV.
And quite possibly ever.
Mind, I say that as a bigarse fan.
Still, anyone who says otherwise is a giant dork.
The Eccleston season is my first experience of the Doctor. I watched it all in a weekend and fell in love. I haven't caught up since then, I'm afraid.
The Mirrorball Man
12-02-2006, 03:22 AM
The concept of a character who dies and comes back not only with a new face, but also with a completely new personality and set of skills - and is still the same character is what I love about Doctor Who.
I also like the fact that it can occasionally be silly, and even be playful about its own silliness, yet is able to completely discard it when it gets in the way. I can't think of any other series that can not only jump from grim horror to broad comedy in the same episode, but also go from deep, involving drama to "nudge-nudge ain't we silly" self-awareness. It is, I think, a quintessentially British trait, and may not appeal to everybody.
Cam63
12-02-2006, 03:31 AM
I love the humour of the series.
The universe could be coming to an end, but let's not take things too seriously, eh ?
TheTen-EyedMan
12-02-2006, 03:51 AM
I grew up with the show, getting the tail end of Jon Pertwee's run when I was old enough to appreciate it. Tom Baker kept that show going in the 70s when the BBC wanted to downsize. He, quite rightly, feels a sort of quasi-ownership of the role.
I have to say that the new series suffers from what the latter part of the original series did, over-reliance on special effects. Back when the BBC SFX budget was nearly non-existent, when any of the first four Doctors wanted you to believe that a large foam rubber clam was the deadliest thing in the universe, you believed it due to their acting chops.
I feel the one doctor who was badly done by was Peter Davison. He brought a sort of innocence to the role that no other Doctor did. He was morally outraged by the injustices of friend and foe alike. The best example of this was the 1984 story Warriors of the Deep, which had humans, Sea Devils and Silurians going at it. The Doctor was unable to stop the Sea Devils from continuing their plans to destroy the earth, so the Earth contingent killed them, the Silurians and themselves and the Doctor said "There should have been another way".
That was when the stories started getting dark.
Ontir
12-02-2006, 04:41 AM
I liked when the sonic screwdriver was used to re-trigger the alien's teleporter, knocking her into a repeating cycle!
king mob
12-02-2006, 05:31 AM
I started watching as a kid during Jon Pertwee's second season and still consider Pertwee to be 'my Doctor'. Since then i've fell in and out of love with the series-at time it's been sublime, at times it's been utter rubbish. Part of the joy of the show is that it can cater to different tastes and (on the whole) remain a massive mainstream audience show.
I've just finished watching series 2 of the new series on DVD and it's some of the best Doctor Who you'll see.
venuscameback
12-02-2006, 05:43 AM
I saw most of the episode with Anthony Stewart Head and a bunch of monsters in a high school and this entire episode tonight about...the devil and a black hole??? I watched a good deal of the first episode of this two-parter, but I was dealing with some frustrating stuff at the time, so I didn't really take it in very much.
I thought the one with the devil and the black hole was weak, but the one with Anthony Stewart Head was great for long-time fans - the plot itself was ordinary but the appearance of Sarah Jane Smith & K9 was brilliantly written. Really looking forward to her spin-off show.
In general you don't need any knowledge of what's gone before, the Anthony Stewart Head episode is an exception.
This is one of my problems, I think. I not only find this Rose to be a bad actress, but I also can't make myself find her attractive. And before someone says something, it's not just b/c she's white; I just...don't see why she's on the show.
Personal taste - I think Billie Piper as Rose Tyler has been a revelation, both as an actress and as very pleasing eye candy. I never thought I'd be complimenting Billie.
I personally prefer Ecclestone over Tennant - Ecclestone has that touch of madness in his performance, a hint that this hero might actually be a lunatic; and in a way, he is - the Doctor loves the adrenaline-fuelled, seemingly suicidal rides in a way that's not entirely sane & Ecclestone drew this aspect out of the character.
What? It was one of the better ones! The weakest ones were Love & Monsters, Fear Her and that one with The Wire.
Matt, sorry to turn this into a debate, but you have that one very, very wrong indeed.
Fear Her was alright, but Love & Monsters and The Idiots Lantern were two of the best episodes of the entire new run.
The Wire was a superior villain, the episode had a great plot and story harkening back to classic who stories of the past, and a completely satisfying ending. It was just fantastic.
As for Love & Monsters, they managed to have a Doctor Who episode where the main characters barely appear, but that at the same time shows just how odd and just how horrible it can be to come close to the Doctors world.
I know it’s all a matter of personal taste, but those were some great episodes.
lonewolf23k
12-02-2006, 07:40 AM
A handy trick, when there are creatures like the Daleks on the loose! They may look like giant salt-shakers; but inside the rather formidable personal tanks, is an xenophobic, megalomaniacal killer, eager to slay everything that isn't Dalek. They firmly believe that the universe will be perfect, when only they live in it. Their uncomplicated genocidal nature sets them apart from most sci-fi, in which we find often horrific alien races, who can, in time, be reasoned with. This will never be the case for the Daleks, because that's the way Davros programmed their instincts.
The Daleks are were it's at for me.. Best Sci-Fi Villain Race EVER.
ragnarok_2012
12-02-2006, 08:04 AM
I think "Fear Her" is the weakest episode of the season, personally.
Corrina
12-02-2006, 08:35 AM
Personally, I wasn't crazy about Christopher Eccleston but I've been really impressed with David Tennant's "hyper" Doctor. He's Colin Baker without the evil!
Love Eccleston. Rose is 'meh' for me and so is Tennant, so I've missed some of the episodes this year. I did like the alternate universe one, though. (Hope that's vague enough not to be a spoiler.)
Charles RB
12-02-2006, 08:37 AM
the devil and a black hole??? I watched a good deal of the first episode of this two-parter, but I was dealing with some frustrating stuff at the time, so I didn't really take it in very much.
That's probably why you didn't get it - The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit 2-parter is a tricky one that you need to pay attention to or you'll get lost. The School Reunion ep w/ ASH, that's a good ep but it'd be a really bad one to see as your first as it assumes you know something about the cast.
The episode before School Reunion, Tooth And Claw, is a much easier one to jump in on - no knowledge beyond "Doctor travels through time in Tardis" and "Britain had a Queen called Victoria" needed for that one, and there's a big werewolf in it.
I just...don't see why she's on the show.
I found myself wondering that through large parts of Season 2...
"Gerroff Rose, you're taking up valuable Mickey screentime!"
The new series is pretty much just damn good. There have been weak episodes
Or "most of Season 2", as I call it. ;)
Charles RB
12-02-2006, 08:40 AM
The weakest ones were... that one with The Wire.
Rose: "He's yer dad."
Kid: "He's an abusive bastard who betrayed his own family and everyone in the street by having their relatives taken away in the middle of the night."
Rose: "But he's yer dad!"
Me: "Oh piss off!"
I did not like that scene, no. What a huge steaming load of rubbish. Luckily the week after had Satan and a race of Cthulhu's who work in canteens!
warspite1805
12-02-2006, 09:58 AM
I watched a couple of episodes from the recent series and it just seemed like a children's TV show, I just find it mediocre, especially when compared to American shows like Enterprise, Andromeda and Battlestar Gallatica. The recent Doctor Who just left me underwhelmed yet I quite enjoyed Sylvester Mcoy series.
king mob
12-02-2006, 11:28 AM
I watched a couple of episodes from the recent series and it just seemed like a children's TV show, I just find it mediocre, especially when compared to American shows like Enterprise, Andromeda and Battlestar Gallatica. The recent Doctor Who just left me underwhelmed yet I quite enjoyed Sylvester Mcoy series.
It's a family show made for a mass audience, it is not as some outside the UK think just for adults and fans. The series during the Mcoy era were an example of mainly decent enough stories but by now the show had lost it's mass audience appeal and it died a death. Of course there were other reasons but put simply the show was being made just for the fans which is never healthy, see Enterprise for a similiar example.
Who is now back to it's former glories, it still throws in enough to keep fanboys happy but it's wearing it's populist agenda with pride.
It's also disengenuous to compare British telefantasy to American sci-fi. American sci-fi has always been (til fairly recently) mainly science fiction or space opera, British telefantasy covers everything from Quatermass to Who to Ultraviolet and yes, even crap like Torchwood. Doctor Who is just part of a British tradition of sf and fantasy that stretches back to the likes of HG Wells.
Charles RB
12-02-2006, 11:43 AM
I watched a couple of episodes from the recent series and it just seemed like a children's TV show
There's an extremely good reason for that, you know...
Someone prefers ENTERPRISE to Doctor Who?! And I ask that as a Trekkie :)
Meh, to each his own. I will admit, though, that Season 4 of Enterprise ws great.
Anyway, back on topic, I like Tennant's Doctor simply because of his outlook on life. Always going for the creative and intelligent way, but at the same time always trying to get people around him to experience new things. He's a very vibrant character. I admit, Eccleston's series is better written overall, but Tennant brings an enthusiasm to the character that only a fanboy could deliver, and I strongly appreciate that.
As for the series itself, I love the mix of humor and concepts. As someone else pointed out earlier, School Reunion had a pretty basic plot, but the dialogue and the skill with which it was written made it an instant classic in my book. While the overall series works on a somewhat more indepth and deeper level than much of the old series (it's simply an evolution of television writing), it doesn't ignore the old series' legacy and history, either.
And, hell, the show has the coolest theme song ever.
Spike-X
12-02-2006, 02:04 PM
Rose: "He's yer dad."
Kid: "He's an abusive bastard who betrayed his own family and everyone in the street by having their relatives taken away in the middle of the night."
Rose: "But he's yer dad!"
Me: "Oh piss off!"
I did not like that scene, no. What a huge steaming load of rubbish.
Yeah, that bit really didn't sit right with me at all. The kid probably would have been better off becoming another companion than trying to forge a relationship with the steaming pile of shite who happened to provide the sperm for his conception.
Paul McEnery
12-02-2006, 02:54 PM
Yeah, that bit really didn't sit right with me at all. The kid probably would have been better off becoming another companion than trying to forge a relationship with the steaming pile of shite who happened to provide the sperm for his conception.
Yeah yeah.
But Rose would say and do that, wouldn't she? And the way the Doctor beams approvingly tells us everything we need to know about where their relationship has gone.
All the way through the two seasons, that's in many ways the core issue, Rose and the Doctor. The quiet changes in their relationship that happen between episodes. And in the first season, the Doctor wavering between the need for attachment and the difficulty in overcoming grief; in the second, having formed that attachment, the fear of losing it. Hence Rose being captured in The Wire, and the Doctor getting captured in Fear Her; not to mention what goes on on the devil planet.
The series during the Mcoy era were an example of mainly decent enough stories but by now the show had lost it's mass audience appeal and it died a death.
By that point, it was widely accepted that due to an unofficial mandate from the BBC boss that the show was doomed no matter what they did or the audience figures received.
The later McCoy stories, however, did have some of the greatest Dr Who tales in the history of the show - The Curse of Fenric, Ghost Light, Remembrance of the Daleks, Battlefield ... all were outstanding.
Gilda Dent
12-02-2006, 04:16 PM
I've seen maybe a couple of episodes, and that was some time ago. I don't really remember much about them. I've considered getting some from Netflix, but all they have are a few scattered individual episode discs, and it doesn't seem worth the cost for something I'd have difficulty picking up due to not knowing the history and characters and so forth. If they ever get around to season sets, I may reconsider.
By that point, it was widely accepted that due to an unofficial mandate from the BBC boss that the show was doomed no matter what they did or the audience figures received.
The later McCoy stories, however, did have some of the greatest Dr Who tales in the history of the show - The Curse of Fenric, Ghost Light, Remembrance of the Daleks, Battlefield ... all were outstanding.
I’m glad to see with the passage of time that McCoy has really finally received recognition for just how good his run turned out to be.
Remembrance of the Daleks is probably my all time favorite Dalek storyline plus it was such a wonderful full circle back to where it all began.
Sean Whitmore
12-02-2006, 04:25 PM
I've seen maybe a couple of episodes, and that was some time ago. I don't really remember much about them. I've considered getting some from Netflix, but all they have are a few scattered individual episode discs, and it doesn't seem worth the cost for something I'd have difficulty picking up due to not knowing the history and characters and so forth. If they ever get aroung to season sets, I may reconsider.
There is one season set out, that of the Eccelston episodes. A second season, featuring Tennant, should hit Netflix come January.
SEAN
warspite1805
12-02-2006, 04:46 PM
Someone prefers ENTERPRISE to Doctor Who?! And I ask that as a Trekkie :)
Meh, to each his own. I will admit, though, that Season 4 of Enterprise ws great.
Anyway, back on topic, I like Tennant's Doctor simply because of his outlook on life. Always going for the creative and intelligent way, but at the same time always trying to get people around him to experience new things. He's a very vibrant character. I admit, Eccleston's series is better written overall, but Tennant brings an enthusiasm to the character that only a fanboy could deliver, and I strongly appreciate that.
As for the series itself, I love the mix of humor and concepts. As someone else pointed out earlier, School Reunion had a pretty basic plot, but the dialogue and the skill with which it was written made it an instant classic in my book. While the overall series works on a somewhat more indepth and deeper level than much of the old series (it's simply an evolution of television writing), it doesn't ignore the old series' legacy and history, either.
And, hell, the show has the coolest theme song ever.
I did not like Enterprise at first but half way through series two it really started to improve.
I’m glad to see with the passage of time that McCoy has really finally received recognition for just how good his run turned out to be.
That being said, of course, the first season of McCoy's run was pretty horrible. Stories such as Time and the Rani, Dragonfire and Paradise Towers were pretty horrible, though things did improve dramatically when Bonnie Langford was shown the door.
That being said, of course, the first season of McCoy's run was pretty horrible. Stories such as Time and the Rani, Dragonfire and Paradise Towers were pretty horrible, though things did improve dramatically when Bonnie Langford was shown the door.
Well at least Time and the Rani gets credit for killing the Sixth Doctor off.
And not a moment too soon I might add.
Charles RB
12-02-2006, 05:24 PM
Yeah, that bit really didn't sit right with me at all. The kid probably would have been better off becoming another companion than trying to forge a relationship with the steaming pile of shite who happened to provide the sperm for his conception.
I know a guy who has said that he found this to be the only realistic, more-than-one-dimensional part of the episode. Which is fair enough, it's probably wrong to cast the older generations aside because their attitudes to things don't match our enlightened ones...
...except that made it unrealistic, because for the rest of the episode we hadn't been taing outdated attitudes, we'd been talking one-dimensional bastardhood with a massive dolping of betraying the family & neighbours (which I don't remember being a traditional 1950s attitude). You can't do that for forty minutes, then act like you'd been balanced and made a three-dimensional in the last five! That's just taking the piss.
Charles RB
12-02-2006, 05:28 PM
though things did improve dramatically when Bonnie Langford was shown the door.
Part of the reason for her being shown the door was because she was angling to leave anyway, IIRC - Mel wasn't exactly a dream part. That said, I keep hearing really good things about Bonnie and Mel in the Big Finish audio dramas, so either her acting's improved or the scripts she was in just sucked.
Magneto_X
12-02-2006, 05:48 PM
1) It's a fantastic concept where anything and everything can and will happen! 2) great stories, 3) excellent characters (heroes and villians), 4) talented actors and more.
Like Stargate: SG-1 it's a comic book come to life!
Cyke:
The *only* Trek I'd consider in Who's league would be the original series. The rest are just bland & always fail to exploit the concept's true potential.
Paul McEnery
12-02-2006, 06:01 PM
1) It's a fantastic concept where anything and everything can and will happen! 2) great stories, 3) excellent characters (heroes and villians), 4) talented actors and more.
Like Stargate: SG-1 it's a comic book come to life!
Of course, the Stargate movie is an episode of Doctor Who.
redlantern2051
12-02-2006, 09:34 PM
For me, "Doctor Who" is the finest sci-fi TV show of all time. I love it! I love David Tennant is excellent, and he is probably my fave Doctor after Tom Baker. I think its such an intriuging show, the Doctor hates using violence, he out-thinks his opponents, and its such an amazing concept! I love it! :-)
I’m glad to see with the passage of time that McCoy has really finally received recognition for just how good his run turned out to be.
I'd also like to add to this that having had the honour of meeting Sylvestor McCoy and Colin Baker and seeing them perform on stage ... they are both extremely talented actors. Colin does the shakespearean very well indeed, while McCoy is able to switch from being a hilarious prankster to a serious actor in the blink of an eye.
They are both also two very friendly people to talk to.
king mob
12-03-2006, 05:16 AM
And, hell, the show has the coolest theme song ever.
The original Delia Derbyshire version is the greatest theme tune of any tv or film ever, and that even includes stuff like Monty Norman's Bond theme.
Wesley Dodds
12-03-2006, 05:22 AM
not to mention what goes on on the devil planet.
The grief of losing the fear of attachment?
king mob
12-03-2006, 05:31 AM
By that point, it was widely accepted that due to an unofficial mandate from the BBC boss that the show was doomed no matter what they did or the audience figures received.
Michael Grade hated the show and considered it past it's sell by date. In some ways Grade was right, the show had been in decline but that was down to a mix of poor scripts, poor casting and acting and being mucked about with in the schedules.
The later McCoy stories, however, did have some of the greatest Dr Who tales in the history of the show - The Curse of Fenric, Ghost Light, Remembrance of the Daleks, Battlefield ... all were outstanding.
They were good and it was a sign the show had rediscovered something that it had lost. It was too late though.
king mob
12-03-2006, 05:37 AM
The *only* Trek I'd consider in Who's league would be the original series. The rest are just bland & always fail to exploit the concept's true potential.
Next Gen does a good job, as does DS9 but it's still ultimately space opera and that does mean it's harder to be as varied as Who is.
Shellhead
12-03-2006, 08:22 AM
Friends tried to get me into Dr. Who back when I was in college. The episode that I watched had some killer robots in it. I thought it was really, really bad, a completely amateurish effort on the same level with an Ed Wood movie. Awkward pacing, wooden acting, and special effects that look like they were made by small children. These same friends also loved really bad horror movies (think Sleepaway Camp or Driller Killer), White Castle sliders, and fart jokes, so I assumed that Dr. Who was more of the same.
Ravenheart
12-03-2006, 08:44 AM
I remember when I was younger watching a few episodes of the Tom Baker series but not really getting into it.I never watched another episode until the Eccleston series started up.I wasn't planning on watching it but I saw a preview and saw Billie Piper for the first time.I thought she was hot and decided to watch it just because of that.After the end of the first episode,Rose,I saw how good of a show it really was and have been watching it ever since.I even went back and checked out some of the earlier episodes again.
Magneto_X
12-03-2006, 11:25 AM
Next Gen does a good job, as does DS9 but it's still ultimately space opera and that does mean it's harder to be as varied as Who is.
TNG and DS9 are still stale compared to Who. Neither hold up very well storywise or looks wise unlike Doctor Who's earlier seasons---despite the lesser budget and made decades earlier.
The original Delia Derbyshire version is the greatest theme tune of any tv or film ever, and that even includes stuff like Monty Norman's Bond theme.
I'm not a fan of techno/dance/electro/assorted other worthless music genre music by any means - but a while back a group called Orbital did a techno/dance version of the Dr Who theme and it's actually really, really good. If you own a Dr Who DVD with the 40th anniversary video on it, it's the music on that.
I also like the theme from the 1996 movie, which was otherwise pretty worthless.
... And thanks to YouTube, here's the 40th Anniversary video with the Orbital theme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAdDZ1mufn4
Rob Imes
12-03-2006, 04:09 PM
I think the appeal of some American fans in the beginning, when Tom Baker's Dr Who first started getting played here in the early 1980s, was that here finally was a good science-fiction show that wasn't like either Star Trek or Star Wars. Instead of having the "space military" backdrop of those two phenoms (which also included even earlier TV sci-fi like Space Patrol and Tom Corbett, Space Cadet), here was a science-fiction hero who seemed more distrustful of a "Federation of Planets" type of thing -- an outsider, even an outlaw.
One of the great things about Dr Who is its Britishness. Although some may find the acting melodramatic, I find (hope I don't sound like Gwenyth Paltrow here) that the British actors and their accents sound more impressive than their American counterparts.
The fact that indoor scenes were on videotape was something as an American I found strange at first (since U.S. shows were not shot that way, except for daytime soaps), but once I got used to the differences, I found I liked it, and I liked that they did things differently than we did. The serial format also made the program seem more exciting and perhaps "comic-booky." But the British accents made it seem more Shakespearean. So, that made it seem like a mix of BBC high-mindedness and crazy comicbooky fun. I remember watching one of the meandering William Hartnell serials from the 1960s -- where it just went on and on, getting captured and imprisoned by one side or the other -- and it reminded me of an old dramatic continuing comic strip from like the 1930s that also tended to have such long meandering storylines. A TV version of an old-fashioned adventure story.
Tom Baker is my favorite doctor, although I like them all. He looked like Bob Dylan (on the cover of Blonde On Blonde), although his nose and his slouching hat reminded me of The Shadow. And his accent, intelligence and wit reminded me of John Lennon. What's not to like?
Charles RB
12-03-2006, 04:37 PM
here was a science-fiction hero who seemed more distrustful of a "Federation of Planets" type of thing
And then years later along comes Blake's 7, where the science-fiction heroes are actively trying to blow up a Federation.
Perry Holley
12-03-2006, 04:47 PM
And then years later along comes Blake's 7, where the science-fiction heroes are actively trying to blow up a Federation.Now there's a show that could really use a remake/revival.
Grazzt
12-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Now there's a show that could really use a remake/revival.
Didn't they kill off all of the characters in the last episode so that it wouldn't be brought back? Or was that a different sci-fi show I was thinking of?
Perry Holley
12-03-2006, 05:02 PM
Didn't they kill off all of the characters in the last episode so that it wouldn't be brought back? Or was that a different sci-fi show I was thinking of?No, that's the one. Supposedly the series creator did have some idea of how to do another season, with a few of the characters still alive (most of the deaths weren't directly shown, IIRC).
Mind you, I've always been amused that the series finale was originally aired on Christmas Eve in Britain. Merry Christmas, fans.
Cyke:
The *only* Trek I'd consider in Who's league would be the original series. The rest are just bland & always fail to exploit the concept's true potential.
I like DS9 better, but it's a different show altogether that probably isn't even in the same genre as Who (despite both being science fantasy). The original Trek was made with the same kind of psychedelic 60s sensibility that the original Who started off with (Doctor Who probably a pioneer in that kind of storytelling as well), so I appreciate your connection . Some elements of both shows age pretty badly, but other, aesthetic elements live on and I love that.
The original Delia Derbyshire version is the greatest theme tune of any tv or film ever, and that even includes stuff like Monty Norman's Bond theme.
I recall stories of how the original version would scare viewers, as it was something new and dark. But it's oh-so-British as well.
What I love about the current theme is that it gives the original Derbyshire version a newer sense of urgency and importance, while giving the feeling that these new adventures are still grand and exuberant.
Hell, it's essentially a remix that I actually like.
Edit: I suppose I should post up the preview clip for this year's Christmas Special again. There'll be some minor spoilers for what they're showing on the Sci-Fi channel, but the clip is just so charming and whimsical that, I feel, captures a bit of the feel of Doctor Who, if only for 3 minutes. And without a lot of special effects, either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS6wirBwRxs
Sanagi
12-03-2006, 11:07 PM
I also like the theme from the 1996 movie, which was otherwise pretty worthless.
I watched it again recently on a whim and I liked it better than I used to. Turning a blind eye to its cheesier moments, I found a lot that was good about it.
Tadhg
12-03-2006, 11:09 PM
Really the only problem I have with the movie is the script, Yeah. It's totally shit but then again, so were a bunch of the episodes. McGann is fucking ace and so is Dr. Grace. If it actually had a plot that made sense, it'd have been awesome.
ragnarok_2012
12-03-2006, 11:13 PM
Yeah, I think the Doctor Who movie had some good qualities.
I'd love to have seen McGann in a (good) regular series.
And that's far and away my favorite TARDIS control room.
McGann went on to play The Doctor in quite a few audio adventures - which for the most part were pretty good.
And, I have to admit, I did like that movie control room.
Sanagi
12-03-2006, 11:25 PM
It occurred to me while watching it that, as something that was meant to introduce people to Dr.Who, it made the critical mistake of trying to explain the Doctor up front and show off all the stuff that's cool about him. It was done better in the new series - letting the character just be his enigmatic self and win the audience over without giving any continuity lessons.
ragnarok_2012
12-03-2006, 11:44 PM
It occurred to me while watching it that, as something that was meant to introduce people to Dr.Who, it made the critical mistake of trying to explain the Doctor up front and show off all the stuff that's cool about him. It was done better in the new series - letting the character just be his enigmatic self and win the audience over without giving any continuity lessons.
That's just textbook enigmatic. :D
Sanagi
12-03-2006, 11:55 PM
That's just textbook enigmatic. :D
Heh. Exactly.
It's the lesson of George Lucas, things are often cooler when they aren't explained.
Nikita
12-04-2006, 12:00 AM
I've seen a couple episodes, and I just don't get the following. Usually I can understand the following, even if I don't dig the show. But I'm at a loss here.
Is it one of those things that you have to see from the beginning to really appreciate, like Lost or Alias?
I could never get into that show. Never cared for it. I did however, watch Red Dwarf and The Young Ones. I don't know why because they were just down right strange sometimes. And yet I'd laugh my ass off at them. Ah, irony.
It's the Harry Potter scarf that old dude that looks like Roger Daltrey wears.
king mob
12-04-2006, 01:22 AM
I'm not a fan of techno/dance/electro/assorted other worthless music genre music by any means - but a while back a group called Orbital did a techno/dance version of the Dr Who theme and it's actually really, really good. If you own a Dr Who DVD with the 40th anniversary video on it, it's the music on that.
I also like the theme from the 1996 movie, which was otherwise pretty worthless.
Orbital used to do it as their encore when they started out, it was so popular it became a part of their regular set. It was quite odd to see loads of hardcore ravers dancing up and down to it.
king mob
12-04-2006, 01:25 AM
And then years later along comes Blake's 7, where the science-fiction heroes are actively trying to blow up a Federation.
Blakes 7 was mainly crap though. It was fun & camp but still crap.
king mob
12-04-2006, 01:28 AM
It occurred to me while watching it that, as something that was meant to introduce people to Dr.Who, it made the critical mistake of trying to explain the Doctor up front and show off all the stuff that's cool about him. It was done better in the new series - letting the character just be his enigmatic self and win the audience over without giving any continuity lessons.
Sylvester Mcoy has said it was a huge mistake for the film to have him in it, he does have a point.
The Mirrorball Man
12-04-2006, 01:53 AM
Sylvester Mcoy has said it was a huge mistake for the film to have him in it, he does have a point.
In my opinion, the main problem with the movie is that it started IN the TARDIS, introducing the Doctor immediately. "An Unearthly Child" and "Rose" started OUTSIDE the TARDIS, and introduced the Doctor later, and that seems to be a much better approach.
Alan Lynch
12-04-2006, 06:14 AM
Sylvester Mcoy has said it was a huge mistake for the film to have him in it, he does have a point.
I can see where he's coming from, but I thought it made sense. While the whole idea of regenration is a pretty tough sell to a fresh audience, it allowed McGann's Doctor to start from scratch with them. Plot and a crap Master let down a good setup IMO.
Cosmic Average
12-04-2006, 11:18 AM
This is one of my problems, I think. I not only find this Rose to be a bad actress, but I also can't make myself find her attractive. And before someone says something, it's not just b/c she's white; I just...don't see why she's on the show.
I agree with this part. Billie Piper kinda looks like the Joker to me, when she smiles.
king mob
12-04-2006, 12:05 PM
I can see where he's coming from, but I thought it made sense. While the whole idea of regenration is a pretty tough sell to a fresh audience, it allowed McGann's Doctor to start from scratch with them. Plot and a crap Master let down a good setup IMO.
Eric bloody Roberts tries to suck the life out of every bloody scene he's in. It's a testimony to McGann that he doesn't quite manage it.
WoodenDummy
12-04-2006, 01:58 PM
As a Robotics student I find the Daleks interesting (I know they are not robots, fans ;) ). We get very very hung up on humanoid shape robots when it's rare that you'd really want a robot shaped like a human for most tasks.
Also the theme tune is the best ever heard on TV.
Sylvester Mcoy has said it was a huge mistake for the film to have him in it, he does have a point.
IIRC, McCoy argued to have the regeneration scene in the middle of the movie. The audience would see McGann first, get accustomed to him and go through an adventure with him, and then midway through, there'd be a flashback showing McCoy and how the Doctor generates, just to add backstory without confusing the audience.
Which, in my opinion, would've satisfied both sides of the coin, while improving an otherwise mediocre movie.
Charles RB
12-04-2006, 11:56 PM
I did however, watch Red Dwarf and The Young Ones.
That's because you're an intelligent person.
Nikita
12-05-2006, 12:19 AM
That's because you're an intelligent person.
LOL. Not really. I just have a weakness for corny British comedies. Fawlty Towers is still an old favorite.
Charles RB
12-05-2006, 01:30 AM
I just have a weakness for corny British comedies.
You should see Spitting Image and their take on Thatcher being ousted... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrAfEqSMTDE)
Sanagi
12-05-2006, 02:45 AM
LOL. Not really. I just have a weakness for corny British comedies. Fawlty Towers is still an old favorite.
Are you saying that liking Fawlty Towers isn't an indication of good taste? 'Cuz the British Film Institute would disagree. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_British_Television_Programmes)
(Woo, it's not even thread drift if you read down the list a couple of entries!)
warspite1805
12-05-2006, 10:43 AM
You should see Spitting Image and their take on Thatcher being ousted... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrAfEqSMTDE)
Blair got off very lightly when spitting Image was cancelled, it was a great show shame it got cancelled when it did. I really liked their version of Major.
king mob
12-05-2006, 11:39 AM
You should see Spitting Image and their take on Thatcher being ousted... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrAfEqSMTDE)
If you can find it, watch the uncut Spitting Image election special from 1987. It is one of the finest bits of television ever made.
There was a synopsis here (http://observationdome.ofla.info/archives/2005/april/23-2258.html) of the final scene but the site is dead now. Thankfully i still have a copy of the relevant bit, aint i cool!?
"The Spitting Image Election Special 87 (shown only after the polls closed to avoid it swaying opinion) is sadly incomplete for legal reasons. The last sketch, which portrays the Tory party as Nazis and a member of the Hitler Youth (a real boy, not a puppet) with pinstripes, an umbrella, and Union Jack singing the song Tomorrow Belongs To Me from the musical Cabaret has been removed. The reason for this is that the song had only been cleared for transmission in Britain and in breach of contract it was apparently transmitted in error on Superchannel - a satellite station broadcasting to much of Europe. The matter was settled out of court but part of the agreement was that the offending sketch shouldn't be reshown. This is a shame as it had the credits running through it and was probably one of the best and most chilling pieces of Spitting Image ever, particularly the final moment in which the wild eyed Thatcher puppet fills the screen to tell the audience tomorrow is hers. Ian Hislop, editor of Private Eye states that he stopped writing for the series after this programme feeling it couldn't be bettered."
Nikita
12-05-2006, 05:28 PM
Are you saying that liking Fawlty Towers isn't an indication of good taste? 'Cuz the British Film Institute would disagree. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_British_Television_Programmes)
(Woo, it's not even thread drift if you read down the list a couple of entries!)
Heh. Fawlty Towers was pretty awesome. I still watch re-runs of it today on PBS whenever I catch it on. John Cleese is the bombdiggity.
Charles RB
12-05-2006, 07:20 PM
If you can find it, watch the uncut Spitting Image election special from 1987. It is one of the finest bits of television ever made.
With luck, there's part of it on the Net somewhere. Haven't found it, but did dig up their take on the Thatcher government's policy towards apartheid South Africa. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=EjwGdKvM-CU)
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