X-factor 14,15,16,17-Preview/spoilers

[Pro]

Not sure these were posted elsewhere but just in case:

4 covers plus a couple of pages from number 14

http://www.marvel.com/blogs/agent_m

[HarrisonJohn]

x-factor 17 cover reminds me of the fall of the mutants promo poster

[Faded]

X-Factor's cover looks beautifuls. :)

[Pro]

x-factor 17 cover reminds me of the fall of the mutants promo poster

Indeed.

I'm really looking forward to the issue(s) where Madrox literally pulls himself back together again. Seeing Samson in the preview art makes me think he'll advice madrox to do so.

[Affinity]

Really nice covers! Raimondi is a little off sometimes but these covers are fun.

[Callie]

Those covers look fantastic. I can't decide what to do with X-Factor myself. It gets interesting, it gets dull...maybe I'll wait for the arc to finish and consider picking up the TPB instead.

[Alex A Sanchez]

The best part about this article is the revelation that X-Factor will be more closely interacting with the X-universe! PAD told some great tales using X-related characters. Hopefully other books will start using X-Factor characters more often so that their exposure goes up. I think its awesome that Jamie and Rhane are going to be in New X-men- I'm grabbing those issues for sure.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

X-Factor kind of blows hot and cold for me. I've considered stopping picking it up pretty much every three isuues since the book began.

I guess my major complaint is that a book set in Mutant Town post-House of M will only have a very short term appeal and purpose. There is no Mutant Town, now. It's kind of a moot point.

So I'm glad these covers suggest that they are expanding beyond the original setting - but recent story concepts ("Killcrops"? What a terrible over-egged idea) have left me a little cold on the title.

I'd rather see Rhane back on an Excalibur title, and Siryn coming with her.

[tunasammiches]

I like having Rahne and Syren in X-Factor because Peter David's writing them. In almost every other book they started just being charicatures of bein gtheir own archtypes. At least in the duration of their time in this book they'll be given SOME personality cause Peter David can't help BUT add those little flaws to characters.

[Faded]

I think the Killcrops are the only thing I haven't really liked about X-Factor. Well...Tryp got some getting used to but it came together quite well at the end.

BTW I'm just so glad Raimondi is on the title. I was starting to think I'd prefer Renato Arlem or even Dennis Callero to remain, but his clearer images really make the book much more vivid in my mind--during and after I read the issue.

But I will never forget Callero's funny ass facial expressions. He was great at telling PAD's jokes.

[Pro]

I think the Killcrops are the only thing I haven't really liked about X-Factor.

I like the idea. I have a concept for a Killcrop spin off. The idea that mutation cropped up in various ways before settling into mutation the way we know it today makes sense. It also eliminates the incongruety of mutants who have powers from birth rather than developing them in their teen years.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I like the idea. I have a concept for a Killcrop spin off. The idea that mutation cropped up in various ways before settling into mutation the way we know it today makes sense. It also eliminates the incongruety of mutants who have powers from birth rather than developing them in their teen years.

It just makes things needlessly complicated, if you ask me. And you can virtually guatrentee that outside of this book the concept will be completely ignored.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Wait- are you actually reading the issues, or just the synopsises that we post here? Because if you are judging the book by what people write in the summaries here you are making a huge mistake. The killcrop thing lasted all of a page- we just liked to talk about its implications here on the board. It wasn't a story point.

The same can be said for the setting of Mutant Town. If you read the book, you would see that it is very much not a moot point, and that the book is much more than just a House of M tie-in. If you had read PAD's original X-Factor run, you would know that this series has stronger legs and is much better than House of M to begin with. It can take place in Mutant Town New York, Washington D.C., or wherever, and things will pretty much be the same.

In other words, the worries you had don't really apply, so welcome aboard :)

And you can virtually guatrentee that outside of this book the concept will be completely ignored.

Now that X-Factor is being edited by the same people who edit the rest of the X-books, we might be hearing about killcrops elsewhere.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Wait- are you actually reading the issues, or just the synopsises that we post here? Because if you are judging the book by what people write in the summaries here you are making a huge mistake. The killcrop thing lasted all of a page- we just liked to talk about its implications here on the board. It wasn't a story point.

Yes I am. I have every issue so far, and a variant cover acquired by mistake, thinking that I'd missed an issue. I really liked the pulpy style of the first issue. It gripped me. I liked the tone, and the art style was interesting.

But as a long time X-Factor fan, as the issues have progressed the series really didn't deliver what I wanted. Even the introduction of Pietro didn't do it for me. All I could see was this facsimile of Angel Investigations and Wolfram and Hart - resprayed as X-Factor Investigations and Singularity. And I found it very hard to read beyond that.

And the Killcrop thing is a big issue. Significant flashback material, and it changes the entire origin of a character, in what I feel to be a needless and complicated way. I would be amazed if it were not retconned away at some point for being just to damned obscure and wierd. I worry that more mutants in the future will be pigeon holed as 'Killcrops' as well. Concepts which start in satelite titles almost never continue well into the main titles.

The same can be said for the setting of Mutant Town. If you read the book, you would see that it is very much not a moot point, and that the book is much more than just a House of M tie-in. If you had read PAD's original X-Factor run, you would know that this series has stronger legs and is much better than House of M to begin with. It can take place in Mutant Town New York, Washington D.C., or wherever, and things will pretty much be the same.

I have read about 75% of PAD's original X-Factor, and I loved it. This is not it. Sure mutant town was immediately relevent after M-Day, but a year from now nobody will even give a wet slap about it. Mutant Town is the series' whole backdrop. But increasingly it's becoming a ghost town. I never liked District X, or it's House of counter-part. It didn't really interest me. And it remains a distraction to my enjoyment of this book also. I just don't see it as very relevent anymore.

I like my X-Factor to hold it's original purpose - a government owned mutant team. Heck Bishop's little band of turncots deserves the title more than this book, right now. It should have retained the Madrox title.

Now that X-Factor is being edited by the same people who edit the rest of the X-books, we might be hearing about killcrops elsewhere.

God I really hope not.

[Faded]

And the Killcrop thing is a big issue. Significant flashback material, and it changes the entire origin of a character, in what I feel to be a needless and complicated way. I would be amazed if it were not retconned away at some point for being just to damned obscure and wierd. I worry that more mutants in the future will be pigeon holed as 'Killcrops' as well. Concepts which start in satelite titles almost never continue well into the main titles.

I feel similarly. I really don't like the constant new breeds of mutants--and now this one is going back and affecting a character's origins. Of all things, I wish the basic mutant concept remained simple.

I think X-Factor's ideas will/should be important as they are the main link that is still (in sub-plot form at least) in search for House of M's answers. I hope that satellite titles' ideas do get recognition, but I hope it doesn't start with the Killcrops. ;)

X-Factor rulz!1

[Matthew K.]

that was fun to see all the little covers & sneak peeks (also suprised to see Bachelo's character sketch in there...i wondered what they looked like when i was browsing an X-Men comic the other day)


edit: what little of read of the interview was interesting too

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I feel similarly. I really don't like the constant new breeds of mutants--and now this one is going back and affecting a character's origins. Of all things, I wish the basic mutant concept remained simple.

I think X-Factor's ideas will/should be important as they are the main link that is still (in sub-plot form at least) in search for House of M's answers. I hope that satellite titles' ideas do get recognition, but I hope it doesn't start with the Killcrops. ;)

X-Factor rulz!1

Although to be fair New Excalibur was intended to be a much bigger link also. If Claremont had not had to go on leave it would have been. After all they've kind of got the Scarlet Witch's other dimension kid on the team, and they're also a lot closer to where she appeared to be hiding out after House of M - be that Wundagore, or just a random central European hamlet somewhere.

[Wagner Time]

Although to be fair New Excalibur was intended to be a much bigger link also. If Claremont had not had to go on leave it would have been. After all they've kind of got the Scarlet Witch's other dimension kid on the team, and they're also a lot closer to where she appeared to be hiding out after House of M - be that Wundagore, or just a random central European hamlet somewhere.

It always made far more sense for New Excalibur to play that role, rather than X-Factor. Such a shame :(

[Alex A Sanchez]

Of all things, I wish the basic mutant concept remained simple.

Evolution is a simple concept that so many people (most, in my experience) get wrong. I don't think there is anything confusing about killcrops at all. They are akin to the platypus: an earlier step in evolution that really doesn't fit its taxanomic classification, yet we call it a mammal non-the-less. If you can understand why a platypus is not a true mammal yet we label it as such, the you can understand how a killcrop is not a true mutant yet has always been considered a mutant.

Nothing earth-shattering or origin changing is going on here, it is simply a philosophical revelation. Nightcrawler's origin was not retconned.

Now the whole tornado thing, on the other hand, that's a different story...

[Pro]

Now the whole tornado thing, on the other hand, that's a different story...

now that's confusing yes .. lots of unanswered questions that provokes ..

[Matthew K.]

Evolution is a simple concept that so many people (most, in my experience) get wrong. I don't think there is anything confusing about killcrops at all. They are akin to the platypus: an earlier step in evolution that really doesn't fit its taxanomic classification, yet we call it a mammal non-the-less. If you can understand why a platypus is not a true mammal yet we label it as such, the you can understand how a killcrop is not a true mutant yet has always been considered a mutant.

Nothing earth-shattering or origin changing is going on here, it is simply a philosophical revelation. Nightcrawler's origin was not retconned.

Now the whole tornado thing, on the other hand, that's a different story...

don't be silly...er'body knows platypussies aren't real :p

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

Evolution is a simple concept that so many people (most, in my experience) get wrong. I don't think there is anything confusing about killcrops at all. They are akin to the platypus: an earlier step in evolution that really doesn't fit its taxanomic classification, yet we call it a mammal non-the-less. If you can understand why a platypus is not a true mammal yet we label it as such, the you can understand how a killcrop is not a true mutant yet has always been considered a mutant.

Nothing earth-shattering or origin changing is going on here, it is simply a philosophical revelation. Nightcrawler's origin was not retconned.

Now the whole tornado thing, on the other hand, that's a different story...

Kurt's hasn't been retconned, no. Yet. But the tornado thing is all tied in with the Killcrop thing, isn't it?

I dunno. I'm kind of bored with X-Factor now. It's been a little diappointing and not what I hoped. I can't really afford the number of books I'm currently buying, so I think this one is going....

I think this

[Pro]

But the tornado thing is all tied in with the Killcrop thing, isn't it?

I don't see how. It's tied to Tryp's power which could just as well have been a mutant power.

The killcrop concept merely explains how some mutants like Tryp, Madrox and possibly Apocalypse are born mutated rather than develop mutations during puberty and makes the evolutionary transition from humanity to mutancy less abrupt. Species develop various mutations constantly before the most usefull mutation becomes the norm. Killcrops didn't make it as a species because humanity killed most of them off out of superstitious fear. Mutancy as we know it today had a better chance, primarily because teenage mutants stand a better chance at survival than baby mutants.

[Alex A Sanchez]

But the tornado thing is all tied in with the Killcrop thing, isn't it?

They are not even remotely related. Me thinks you didn't understand any of it. :cool:

[The Sword Is Drawn]

They are not even remotely related. Me thinks you didn't understand any of it. :cool:

They kind of are. Tryp wanted Jamie, as another Killcrop, as an ally. So he did away with his parents, hoping that he would remove them as an obstacle.

At least that's how I read it.

[Zombienorthstar]

They are not even remotely related. Me thinks you didn't understand any of it. :cool:

Evidence: Tryp has wind powers.

Evidence: Tryp is there just as the tornado hits.

Dont be so patronisning.

[Pro]

They kind of are.

If you compare apples and oranges sure they're both fruit.
But you are talking on the one hand about an expanded explanation on how genetics work in the marvel universe and on the other hand about a storyelement that has only the minutest connection with the concept of killcrops. Kinda like saying space is related to the fantastic four after which you explain how this got Doctor Doom defeated with a stungun made by reed.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

If you compare apples and oranges sure they're both fruit.
But you are talking on the one hand about an expanded explanation on how genetics work in the marvel universe and on the other hand about a storyelement that has only the minutest connection with the concept of killcrops. Kinda like saying space is related to the fantastic four after which you explain how this got Doctor Doom defeated with a stungun made by reed.

I think you've taken that out of context.

I'm saying that Tryp was responsible for the death of Jamie's parents.

I couldn't give a wet slap about evolution, in this case. I'm purely talking about changing a characters origin, to retcon in Tryp and the Killcrop concept.

And I still don't believe the rest of the X-Men line will ever run with the idea.

[Alex A Sanchez]

I think you've taken that out of context.

I'm saying that Tryp was responsible for the death of Jamie's parents.

I couldn't give a wet slap about evolution, in this case. I'm purely talking about changing a characters origin, to retcon in Tryp and the Killcrop concept.

And I still don't believe the rest of the X-Men line will ever run with the idea.

Tryp/tornado is a retcon. Killcrops are not. The events are related, but the concepts are not.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Tryp/tornado is a retcon. Killcrops are not. The events are related, but the concepts are not.

That's not what the complaint is though.

Jamies parents were killed by a tornado. That's fine.

Retconning in that it was caused by Tryp, who wanted to ally himself with young Jamie as he too was a 'Killcrop' - that's the complaint. Changing a characters origins to fit a new plot, which will more than likely only ever be used by PAD.

Other writers in the future will have to try and gloss over this new origin or get it retconned over again. That is why people are complaining.

[Pro]

I don't see that much of a problem with the killcrop concept being solely used by PAd since it is unlikely there are many Killcrops in excistence these days. How many people still feature dodo's in their stories? But if you have a good use for dodo's then why not? For most people Killcrops are merely mutants whose powers developed early (although Tryp made a good point when he mentioned Xavier the much vaunted genetic specialist not making a distincition when there clearly is: True mutants gain their powers during puberty/Latent mutants can manifest under special circumstances/Killcrops are born with mutant powers. It is a simple scientific categorisation: True mutants gain their powers during puberty, anyone who does not develop them at puberty is not a true mutant, they don't fit the parameters, they are something else.

The killcrop bit isn't what bugs me about the tornado thing, but rather the element of excisting in different point in time and in how far tryp has control over it and what the consequences are for manipulating events in the past.

Because after killing his parents why didn't tryp make his move on Madrox? Was that whole event set up so he could piss off madrox at a certain time? Because it seemed his intention was not to outright murder Jamie's parents for that particular purpose but to take charge of raising Jamie.

So why didn't he?

[Alex A Sanchez]

Jamies parents were killed by a tornado. That's fine.


This was established in Jamie's first appearance. I own it. Its more than fine. :D

Retconning in that it was caused by Tryp, who wanted to ally himself with young Jamie as he too was a 'Killcrop' - that's the complaint.

I can see how people are grouping the concept of Killcrops with Jamie's origin, but Tryp is the actual retcon. There could be many reasons Tryp wanted to recruit Jamie; said reason is irrelevant. People are upset because Tryp is there in Jamie's past, to begin with. The implications of the Killcrops are much bigger than Jamie, and concept could exist even if Tryp didn't.

[Alex A Sanchez]

deleted by poster. i was in a cranky mood last night. i don't feel like being an ass anymore.
and so says the Internet Hothead. (I'm allowed to foot-in-mouth, since I've raised it to an art form)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

You did a great job trying trying to spell the word "patronizing"! I'm sure that next time you will remember to use a "Z" instead of an "S", and that there are only two "N"s.

Actually, you're kinda the guy in the wrong here. Zombienorthstar is British. It is only American English which uses a 'Z'. We use an 'S'.

[Crimson]

Where are the covers? All I see is a post about the Marvel Editorial Summit

Thanks

[Pro]

Its okay that you didn't know that in order to patronize someone, you must act kindly towards someone as well as condescending.

Kinda like:"Well, isn't that a nice thing to do, explaining how to properly use the word patronising. Too bad you didn't know about the spelling differences between british and american english but nice try"? :p

Something like that? Well learn something new every day ..

[Zombienorthstar]

I wasn't patronizing anyone. I honestly believed there was a misunderstanding. I did not intend to be rude and I apologize if it did seem that way.

Now, for the sake of example, I will patronize you in the following:

You did a great job trying trying to spell the word "patronizing"! I'm sure that next time you will remember to use a "Z" instead of an "S", and that there are only two "N"s.

It was also very clever of you to try to use the word "patronize". Its okay that you didn't know that in order to patronize someone, you must act kindly towards someone as well as condescending.

I love the irony of this. Patronise is the correct spelling. We're not all American here. Colour, Mum etc...please do get over yourself.

And just because it was kindly and well intentioned...doesn't make it any less annoying.

[Cybak]

Where are the covers? All I see is a post about the Marvel Editorial Summit

Thanks

Go to this link: http://www.marvel.com/blogs//entry/580