What comics *shouldn't* be collected as Showcases or Essentials?

[Loren]

In a Showcase Presents thread (either on this board or the DC one), it was suggested that a Metal Men Showcase might not be very effective, due to the lack of color. When so many Metal Men stories involve the characters stretching into disparate shapes, the inability to recognize which shapes on the page are actually the characters could impair the story.

Do you agree? Are there other series that were sufficiently dependent on color that a B&W reprinting wouldn't be worthwhile?

Are there any other reasons why DC or Marvel should avoid reprinting a particular series as Showcases or Essentials? Perhaps because the stories would be too repetitive in a 500-page format? Maybe because they were simply bad, or possibly offensive?

Just curious.

[benday-dot]

I'm reworking my way right now through the Swamp Thing stories. If ever these were considered for any format of B&W I would have to pass. The greenery, the flora and fauna of the swamp have colour too intrinsically invested in them to merit consideration on any sort of greyscale or monochrome reproduction. I am half way through the Bissette/Tottleben era of Swamp Thing... and Tatjana Woods rich verdant and immensely alive colours are as essential to the story as anything else. Afterall, Swamp Thing is vegetation incarnate.

[Mr. Palmer]

That's a good call on Swampy... but what about Man-Thing? He's appeared in B&W stories and came off looking pretty good. It'll be interesting to see how Manny looks in his upcoming Essential.

[Aaron Kashtan]

I'm reworking my way right now through the Swamp Thing stories. If ever these were considered for any format of B&W I would have to pass. The greenery, the flora and fauna of the swamp have colour too intrinsically invested in them to merit consideration on any sort of greyscale or monochrome reproduction. I am half way through the Bissette/Tottleben era of Swamp Thing... and Tatjana Woods rich verdant and immensely alive colours are as essential to the story as anything else. Afterall, Swamp Thing is vegetation incarnate.

There was a comic book series called Essential Vertigo: Swamp Thing that reprinted the early Moore/Bissette stories in black and white. They did it either to cut costs, or because the coloring supposedly wouldn't reproduce well. And you're right, the reprints don't look very nice. I have two issues of this reprint series and I really ought to replace them with original issues.

[Captain Jim]

I'm going to disagree on Metal Men. I think the difficulty involved is overstated and personally, I would pick it up in a heartbeat.

[Jukka Laine of Finland]

They did a Green Lantern Showcase in b&w. I haven't read it, but I've got all the Archives. The green and yellow color is quite essential there, IMHO.

But then, I've read the Moore/Tetleben Swampy issues only in b&w (British TPBs). I've always thought it works well.

A Swedish site tells that Swedish translation of b&w Green Arrow was called Red Arrow in the 70s, so he wouldn't be confused with Green Lantern.

[benday-dot]

A Swedish site tells that Swedish translation of b&w Green Arrow was called Red Arrow in the 70s, so he wouldn't be confused with Green Lantern.

Hilarious. Swedes are pretty smart people. Why would they be any more confused than say Canadians, Americans or Brits over the distinction between Green Arrow and Green Lantern. I'm pretty sure they could have got to the bottom of it.

[Agentum]

Yes i think it was because some smartass thought Green Lantern and Green Arrow was to similar in name (i dont see the problem).

It was changed later to Green Arrow, but it was still confused to Red Arrow now and then in the comic.
It looked pretty stupid too when you clearly could see that GA had a green costume and arrows.

Funny thing is that they managed to mix upp GA (called Red Arrow) and GL sometimes anyway in the translated text, peabrains:D

Today the heroes has their original english names and that is for the best, the translation of the names always was a problem.


And about the GL Showcase, in those days the hero is telling the reader everything he do and sees, so the colorproblem is not that bad as e tells you about it.

[glue]

They did a Green Lantern Showcase in b&w. I haven't read it, but I've got all the Archives. The green and yellow color is quite essential there, IMHO.


I've read about 1/4 of the SHOWCASE and the format doesn't hurt it at all. I'm pretty sure they say when something is yellow, although I may just be filling in the blanks since I was aware of the weakness.

[jonahhex]

In my opinion, the black and white reprints of Kirby's fouth world series did not work. I wish they would put those in archive editions. Also the Superman volumes need color. Curt Swan, like Kirby, needs color. --- I own all the Green lantern archives and still bought the GL showcase presents just to see how Gil Kane looks in B & W. I mostly liked it, but a Gil Kane series called Outlaw was reprinted in Jonah Hex 1 really needed the color. Although the majority of the book by Tony Dezuniga did not need color. --- Sometimes it depends on the artist, like in the showcase volume of phantom stranger. Jim Aparo leaves alot of spaces for color, while dezuniga does not. --- I haved loved the war titles DC has done!!!! Joe Kubert, Doug Wildey, Gerry Talaoc, do not need color their stuff is so good. --- The House of Mystery volume is fairly uneven with so many different artists, some using spaces for color fills and other artists using more heavy blacks that looks better in black and white.

I am open minded about Metal Men, because I was surprised how much I enjoyed Metamorpho, which I would also needed color.

I also am really in favor of a Showcase Presents of Swamp Thing. Sure, I have the Berni Wrightson TPB rerinting #1-10. But I really want a book that would put all of volume #1 (#1-24) in a single collection. I think Nestor Redondo is a great artist who had the problem of filling Wrightson's shoes. I also think both Wrightson and Redondo would look great in b & w, if you don't believe me just find some early 1970s Warren magazines with both their stuff in 'em.

[Ryan K]

There's going to be an Essential Dazzler now, so with that as a standard, most anything's game.

[scratchie]

In my opinion, the black and white reprints of Kirby's fouth world series did not work.It wasn't the black & white; it was the grey. I'm sure that a black & white Showcase of these series would look awesome.

The problem with the greyscale reprints is that they used two different shades of grey, and the darker shade tended to obscure the details of the artwork beneath it.

[Aaron King]

I'm with Scratchie. I was just reading Jack Kirby's New Gods, the greyscale trade, this morning. I also just finished up Essential Thor volume 2. The winner, in my eyes, is Thor. Now, in my eyes, Kirby was constantly improving as an artist. I found the visuals in Captain Victory amazing (call me crazy) and I think the New Gods work is better than Thor. However, that poorly done greyscale just muddies things up. Kirby's lines look great in black and white.

[MWGallaher]

Besides the Metal Men (I raised the potential objection to that one in the other thread), I think the Marvel black & white magazines of the 70's shouldn't (ideally) be printed in the Essential format. The size and proportions of the pages were different than standard comics, so the artwork is shrunken considerably, and the painted covers usually look awful in black and white, and the grey wash tones don't always translate well to the scaled-down version. And it goes without saying that painted-color comics, like, say, Weird World, shouldn't be put onto newsprint in black ink.
The Marvel b&w's (Like Dracula and Zombie and Frankenstein and Moon Knight) are still readable (as would be a Metal Men Showcase), but they suffer more--as would Metal Men--from the format than most other candidates.

[Jukka Laine of Finland]

Yes i think it was because some smartass thought Green Lantern and Green Arrow was to similar in name (i dont see the problem).



Yeah, that's what I thought. I've got a late sixties hardcover Superman album, since when I was a kid, which has a textpage about "Red Arrow and Speedy", in Finnish. It took me ten years to understand they were not the same characters as in "Green Arrow".

Är det någon svensk här som har den samma Stålmannensalbum på svenska?
(Are there any Swedish person here who's got the same HC in Swedish?) I think they were published simultaneously in the Nordic countries, if in all of Europe, if anybody really knows about it?

[jonahhex]

I'm with Scratchie. I was just reading Jack Kirby's New Gods, the greyscale trade, this morning. I also just finished up Essential Thor volume 2. The winner, in my eyes, is Thor. Now, in my eyes, Kirby was constantly improving as an artist. I found the visuals in Captain Victory amazing (call me crazy) and I think the New Gods work is better than Thor. However, that poorly done greyscale just muddies things up. Kirby's lines look great in black and white.

I stand corrected. The greyscales are the problem. By the way, I love Kirby, and curt swan. But i still want the color for these guys.

[Agentum]

And those books will soon be released in HC collections i heard, i have New Gods book with the greyscales and it's awful that way.

[swinebread]

And those books will soon be released in HC collections i heard, i have New Gods book with the greyscales and it's awful that way.

I have to agree. I bought all the New Gods books so I could read the stories, but I have since sold them.

[glue]

I'd like it if ESSENTIALS and SHOWCASE focused more on the "fringe" characters and not so much on the Spider-Mans and Batmans or even Green Lanterns of the comic world. I find myself enjoying things like MAN-THING and HOWARD THE DUCK more than FANTASTIC FOUR or AVENGERS (blasphemy to most, I'm sure).

[scratchie]

I'd like it if ESSENTIALS and SHOWCASE focused more on the "fringe" characters and not so much on the Spider-Mans and Batmans or even Green Lanterns of the comic world. I find myself enjoying things like MAN-THING and HOWARD THE DUCK more than FANTASTIC FOUR or AVENGERS (blasphemy to most, I'm sure).Not blasphemy at all, but I think both companies have done a pretty good job of releasing second (or third) tier characters, e.g.

Man-Thing
Howard the Duck
Nova
Killraven
Werewolf by Night
Elongated Man
Metamorpho
Jonah Hex
etc.

[glue]

I agree they've done a good job of giving the second and third tier guys books. I was just saying that's what I look for when they announce new books. I'm not against them releasing anything, but if I had to eliminate something it'd be "the franchise guys", if only so that I could get more of the lesser-known titles.

[Pól Rua]

Growing up in Australia, 99% of my early comics reading was with B&W reprints of DC Titles. As a kid, I had no troubles with them, so no. I can't see any of that being a problem.

[shjonescrk]

Growing up in Australia, 99% of my early comics reading was with B&W reprints of DC Titles. As a kid, I had no troubles with them, so no. I can't see any of that being a problem.


It was the same for me in the UK. Reading the Essentials reminds me an awful lot of when I was a kid. Unfortunately I have found a lot of the stories don't stand up well. I read the first Dr Strange Essential and Lee & Ditko are fantastic but the quality drops substantially once Ditko left.

Steve

[gentlesatirist]

...but the only Showcase collections I've considered buying are Jonah Hex and House of Mystery, since I don't think the western or horror fields suffer much from lack of color.

Superhero stuff I need in full color. I still can't believe they did the non-color New Gods reprint a while back. It loses so much! Maybe I'm just not mature to handle b&w superhero comics, even at age 35.


- FE
Wickliffe OH