Has batman ever taken a human life? [Archive]

Chris Nowlin

11-25-2006, 12:20 PM

Not at that instance. He was just trying to trick Shiva into believing he had to end the tests.

However, if you look to the forties, you can see Batman pretty cavalierly spraying bullets at bad guys.

Sean Whitmore

11-25-2006, 06:55 PM

His favorite was tossing people off roofs, though.

SEAN

DemonJack

11-25-2006, 07:08 PM

Does scaring someone to death count?

yourverysilly

11-26-2006, 12:57 AM

Nah, I don't Think he's done that, but even if he did, Bats knows what the line is, he wouldn't cross it ever.

The Shadow

11-26-2006, 03:23 AM

Bats knows what the line is, he wouldn't cross it ever.
As Sean and coke & comics point out he has.

He killed Dr Death in his first appearance or two.

ouiyahtsiouiyah

11-26-2006, 07:15 AM

in a Detective comic late 80's he accidently kicks 2 thugs into a trash compactor and they get crushed.

He hasn't killed anyone else in continuity that I've seen

Sean Whitmore

11-26-2006, 11:14 AM

My favorite was in Batman...I wanna say #3 or 4...he kicks a guy in the head so hard that his neck snaps.

He used to out-Bauer Jack Bauer. :D

SEAN

Chad

11-26-2006, 11:24 AM

He intentionally killed a handfull of terrorists in Detective 590 (1988) by driving into them with a car going at full speed. One of them was carrying a bomb and when he rammed them, it detonated killing them all. Although he hadn't planned on the bomb going off, he knew what he was doing when he steered the car towards them and hit the accelerator. He killed the mastermind in the same issue albeit accidentally.

In Cosmic Odyssey, he kills one of Darkseid's Parademons in order to save his life and that of a police officer.

Sean Whitmore

11-26-2006, 12:14 PM

In Cosmic Odyssey, he kills one of Darkseid's Parademons in order to save his life and that of a police officer.

With a gun, no less.

Still, I think that's covered under the "monsters don't count" rule. :)

SEAN

The Shadow

11-26-2006, 12:14 PM

He used to out-Bauer Jack Bauer. :D

That makes him the baddest ass around then!

Stranger With Candy

11-26-2006, 12:44 PM

i might have killed Two-Face in Batman Forever.

umbc8

11-26-2006, 07:40 PM

i might have killed Two-Face in Batman Forever.

I don't think the movies count, since they aren't comic continuity (by the way, he also killed Joker, Penguin, Catwoman (she even points out she lost one of her lives), and Ra's Al Ghul in the movies).

BeastieRunner

11-26-2006, 08:12 PM

I don't think the movies count, since they aren't comic continuity (by the way, he also killed Joker, Penguin, Catwoman (she even points out she lost one of her lives), and Ra's Al Ghul in the movies).

He didn't kill Ra's . . . he didn't save him. That's Ra's fault, and we don't even know if he really is dead.

Sean Whitmore

11-26-2006, 08:22 PM

He didn't kill Ra's . . . he didn't save him.

That's an extremely dubious distinction...and one I'm honestly surprised so many people have accepted.

SEAN

IamtheRock3

11-26-2006, 09:30 PM

seem a lot of those can be counted as HIM or me situation. OR self defense

Granted putting on tights and fighting crime, one PUT themself in this situation..but while you fighting on a Statue of Libery, point pretty moot by that point. What dones is done. In this situation a villan may fall cursing the hero's name.

Heroes used this card all the time

I mean, how many people has Clark Kent in smallvill killed by tossing the bad guy into a wall, or the bad guy COVEINTLY slipping to attack him and landing on a lead pipe that pointing up, there by killing let another villans who knows clark secret

Or the old Villans come at hero with a sword, the hero ducks and said villan falls of cliff, keeping said villan hands clean

its a stadard super hero defense.

its in the law books. Just look it up

Chris Nowlin

11-26-2006, 10:26 PM

i might have killed Two-Face in Batman Forever.

I might have too. But then I might have made a costume without nipples, so I'm not sure what's here or there.

Stranger With Candy

11-26-2006, 11:28 PM

I don't think the movies count, since they aren't comic continuity (by the way, he also killed Joker, Penguin, Catwoman (she even points out she lost one of her lives), and Ra's Al Ghul in the movies).
yeah.... its a long time sense i saw the Batman movies.

Stranger With Candy

11-26-2006, 11:29 PM

I might have too. But then I might have made a costume without nipples, so I'm not sure what's here or there.
Huh ?

dancj

11-27-2006, 04:23 AM

That's an extremely dubious distinction...and one I'm honestly surprised so many people have accepted.
Especially seeing as it's exactly the same thing as Azbats great crime when he didn't save the Abattoir

Slortex

11-27-2006, 10:35 AM

Especially seeing as it's exactly the same thing as Azbats great crime when he didn't save the Abattoir

Yeah, that's the one major beef I had with Begins. Either jail Ra's or have him die while Batman attempts to save him (possibly refusing his rescue attempts or something). Having Batman let the man die seems wrong.

Agent Helix

11-27-2006, 10:44 AM

Having him let the man die feels wrong, but what's worse is that he dies in a deathtrap of Batman's own design. There was no way for Ra's to escape, and Batman knew it. Now, I know Batman in the Burton films was pretty cavalier about the expendability of thugs and villains, but it's important to note that neither Batman nor Returns made any point about the "no killing" code.

BEGINS, on the other hand, practically centered the narrative around it. I like the movie, but that majorly sticks in my craw.

Paul Dee

11-27-2006, 11:15 AM

. Now, I know Batman in the Burton films was pretty cavalier about the expendability of thugs and villains, but it's important to note that neither Batman nor Returns made any point about the "no killing" code.

Admittedly Nolan messed up somewhat with the Ra's ending and this does contradict with the 'no killing' code that the movie features heavily, but at least Nolan mentions the whole 'no killing' thing in the first place. In choosing not to even make it a factor Burton shows a real lack of understanding about the character.

Batman also seemed to not think so much about not killing people in the Tumble chase sequence - he might not have killed anyone but he does seem to come close. He's quite gung-ho in that scene and it's a bit jarring.

Slortex

11-27-2006, 11:28 AM

The Tumbler chase scene doesn't bother me as much as Ra's death. He was trying to save Rachel, and needed to act fast to save the city. In Ra's death... all he was gonna do afterwards was take a (well-deserved) nap.

Also troublesome was the scene where he refuses to kill the thief and join the League of Shadows... and proceeds to blow up the entire building, probably killing several ninjas AND the thief he didn't want to behead in the first place.

Choppa

11-27-2006, 11:31 AM

Begins is a realistic take on Batman. Anyone who does what Batman does in real life is going to get people killed, simple as that. You can't have a real batman and a fake world.

Slortex

11-27-2006, 11:43 AM

Begins is a realistic take on Batman. Anyone who does what Batman does in real life is going to get people killed, simple as that. You can't have a real batman and a fake world.

There's a difference between getting people killed and killing people outright. Like I said, the Tumbler scene doesn't bother me that much, because it was for a greater purpose, and he didn't actively kill anyone. Likewise, to a certain degree, with the other scene with the thief. Maybe he could've avoided blowing up the place, but clearly drastic measures needed to be taken. My main issue with that scene is that he loses sight of his immediate goal of sparing the life of the thief.

In any case, those scenes really don't bother me all that much. The scene with Ra's, however, is just out of place. Realism doesn't come into the equation when he simply lets the man die.

Choppa

11-27-2006, 12:12 PM

There's a difference between getting people killed and killing people outright. Like I said, the Tumbler scene doesn't bother me that much, because it was for a greater purpose, and he didn't actively kill anyone. Likewise, to a certain degree, with the other scene with the thief. Maybe he could've avoided blowing up the place, but clearly drastic measures needed to be taken. My main issue with that scene is that he loses sight of his immediate goal of sparing the life of the thief.

In any case, those scenes really don't bother me all that much. The scene with Ra's, however, is just out of place. Realism doesn't come into the equation when he simply lets the man die.

But he didn't outright kill the prisoner, and there's a difference between murdering him and taking the risk that he died in the explosion. If he did, that's too bad. That's what happens with a real life Batman.

Frankie Dennis

11-27-2006, 01:18 PM

My favorite was in Batman...I wanna say #3 or 4...he kicks a guy in the head so hard that his neck snaps.

He used to out-Bauer Jack Bauer. :D

SEAN
It was Detective comics #30.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/Ratso/batman_cossack.jpg

Sean Whitmore

11-27-2006, 01:39 PM

Batman looo-ooooves snappin' necks! (http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/soapbox/100601621162395.htm)

I like to believe that these old stories are all still in continuity, and that Batman spends every waking hour forcing himself not to break people's necks.

SEAN

IamtheRock3

11-27-2006, 02:32 PM

But he didn't outright kill the prisoner, and there's a difference between murdering him and taking the risk that he died in the explosion. If he did, that's too bad. That's what happens with a real life Batman.

Yea but kind of seem he KNEW he was going to die

Wasnt expecitn Ra to get back up..and was rather please with that fact.

Punch

11-27-2006, 02:45 PM

But he didn't outright kill the prisoner, and there's a difference between murdering him and taking the risk that he died in the explosion. If he did, that's too bad. That's what happens with a real life Batman.

So basically Batman just vows not to murder anyone? That's real commitment, Batman!

And stop saying that Batman Begins was realistic. If it was realistic he would have been either dead or arrested within the first month.

Paul Dee

11-27-2006, 03:02 PM

And stop saying that Batman Begins was realistic. If it was realistic he would have been either dead or arrested within the first month.

Oh come on. Surely you know what people mean when they use this word. The movie wasn't realistic for a hundred-and-one reasons, no movie ever is, but that's just used as a shorthand for "the fact that the movie was more grounded in realism than the previous franchise" or whatever which is just a pain to carry on saying.

Punch

11-27-2006, 03:26 PM

But you see that's the problem right there. It's not more grounded in reality at all.

Kid Kyoto

11-27-2006, 04:01 PM

yes every time he returns the Joker to Arkham knowing he'll escape Batman is responsible for everyone the Joker will kill. :)

Paul Dee

11-27-2006, 04:49 PM

But you see that's the problem right there. It's not more grounded in reality at all.]]

How not? You're telling me it's as rooted in fantasy and is as unbelivable as Burton's Batman? How so?

mistervader

11-27-2006, 05:02 PM

I thought you'd be talking about the realism of Schumacher's Batman. :p

In any case, you have to understand, his parents are dead. (http://www.pvponline.com/images/batman/)

Sean Whitmore

11-27-2006, 05:05 PM

you have to understand, his parents are dead. (http://www.pvponline.com/images/batman/)

Fantastic. :D

SEAN

mistervader

11-27-2006, 06:03 PM

Fantastic. :D

SEAN

"I could let him go... but it won't bring back my parents."

Truer words have never been said.

Frankie Dennis

11-27-2006, 06:09 PM

I thought you'd be talking about the realism of Schumacher's Batman. :p

In any case, you have to understand, his parents are dead. (http://www.pvponline.com/images/batman/)

Hilarious.

Chad

11-27-2006, 06:48 PM

it's important to note that neither Batman nor Returns made any point about the "no killing" code.

Actually, what I had a problem with in Batman Returns is that Batman has no problem blowing up or incinerating the Penguin's men at the beginning of the film, but when Catwoman attempts to kill Max Shreck, he gives her the old "killing Shreck would make you no better than him" speech.

Sean Whitmore

11-27-2006, 06:56 PM

Actually, what I had a problem with in Batman Returns is that Batman has no problem blowing up or incinerating the Penguin's men at the beginning of the film, but when Catwoman attempts to kill Max Shreck, he gives her the old "killing Shreck would make you no better than him" speech.

He did the same with Robin in the third, trying to convince him that killing Two Face wouldn't make him feel any better. Maybe Bruce himself was feeling guilt over killing Joker, and didn't want Selina and Dick to go through the same thing?

SEAN

Kid Kyoto

11-27-2006, 07:55 PM

STOP THE PRESSES!

I just found proof of Batman hitting people so hard...

http://the-isb.blogspot.com/2006/11/aparo.html

THEY EXPLODE!

Slortex

11-27-2006, 09:51 PM

But he didn't outright kill the prisoner, and there's a difference between murdering him and taking the risk that he died in the explosion. If he did, that's too bad. That's what happens with a real life Batman.

In any case, those scenes really don't bother me all that much. The scene with Ra's, however, is just out of place. Realism doesn't come into the equation when he simply lets the man die.

Like I said, Ra's was left for dead when Batman could have done something to prevent his death. That doesn't work in light of his development to that point in the movie.

Of course, it could be argued that Ra's would have attacked him if he attempted to save him, or that his cape could not support Ra's weight.

Lester C.

11-27-2006, 10:19 PM

When the character first debuted in the late thirties he was killing people right and left. None of those stories count though.

dancj

11-28-2006, 04:18 AM

Batman also seemed to not think so much about not killing people in the Tumble chase sequence - he might not have killed anyone but he does seem to come close. He's quite gung-ho in that scene and it's a bit jarring.

That scene really annoyed me. If Bats didn't kill any innocent people (which we don't know) it was purely by luck.

Frankie Dennis

11-28-2006, 10:51 AM

He didn't kill anybody. In the next scene Alfred says "It's a miracle nobody was killed"

stealthwise

11-28-2006, 11:21 AM

Sean Whitmore

11-28-2006, 01:12 PM

I'm surprised no one's brought up the scene in Burton's first Batman movie where Bats drives the batmobile through the Joker's factory and blows it smithereens. You can definitely see people in the factory moments before the whole thing explodes. It probably falls under the "if you didn't see it happen, then they didn't die" clause, but it's presented as more than likely that Bats killed them.

Well, Burton Batman definitely kills. Besides the above, he later blew away the Joker's henchmen with a machine gun, and it could be argued that what he did to Joker ensured he would die either way. Then there's the circus folk in Batman Returns...

SEAN

dancj

11-29-2006, 04:21 AM

He didn't kill anybody. In the next scene Alfred says "It's a miracle nobody was killed"
Oops - I forgot that bit. But still... Alfred is right

metalhead_dave743

11-29-2006, 01:25 PM

yes every time he returns the Joker to Arkham knowing he'll escape Batman is responsible for everyone the Joker will kill. :)

Oh Please, it's not Batman's fault that Arkham is a revolving door asylum and that the Gotham Court system thinks that Joker can be rehibilitated.

Batman is doing his job, why can't the court do theirs.

I know you are kidding but I had to say that.

Kid Kyoto

11-29-2006, 03:09 PM

Oh Please, it's not Batman's fault that Arkham is a revolving door asylum and that the Gotham Court system thinks that Joker can be rehibilitated.

Batman is doing his job, why can't the court do theirs.

I know you are kidding but I had to say that.

By that logic Batman should hang up his cape, go to the police academy and fight crime on that side of the line.

Honestly I never found a good reason Batman is willing to take the law into his own hands but not punishment. And it doesn't have to be death either. He could easily install some cells in the cave (ala the 90s Chain Gang comic) or put something together with the JLA.

Y'know that might make for an interesting story.

IamtheRock3

11-29-2006, 03:22 PM

By that logic Batman should hang up his cape, go to the police academy and fight crime on that side of the line.

Honestly I never found a good reason Batman is willing to take the law into his own hands but not punishment. And it doesn't have to be death either. He could easily install some cells in the cave (ala the 90s Chain Gang comic) or put something together with the JLA.

Y'know that might make for an interesting story.

maybe cause taking the punishment in his own hands just kicking things up a notch. not his place to judge. Also commsionor Gordon would come after him hard if he did that, so would other heroes

and really that jail thing didnt work to well for punisher 2099

Security blew up in batman face

Kid Kyoto

11-29-2006, 07:16 PM

maybe cause taking the punishment in his own hands just kicking things up a notch. not his place to judge. Also commsionor Gordon would come after him hard if he did that, so would other heroes

and really that jail thing didnt work to well for punisher 2099

Security blew up in batman face

oh I don't think it should be a permanent change in the status quo but I think it would make for an interesting story arc with all of the problems you mentioned.