another hip-hop civil war?

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Hip Hop's Civil War — Fri, 22/09/2006 - 17:26

Long read, found it on some other boards, but anyway...

Mommy, What’s A Backpacker? AKA What The Hell Is A Cannibal Ox?

If you’ve ever been on a music related messageboard before or on in a hip hop thread you’ve seen the word, if you’ve ever heard the word/term used as a description or a derogatory term (i.e. “Fuck you fake ass bitch Lupe Fiasco lovin’ niggas! Y’all need to take that backpack bullshit back to the surburbs and listen to some real shit like Young Jeezy!”) and wondered what the hell it meant or even where it came from, I’ll explain it to you in the following blog. This blog is about not just where th e term came from but it’s also about the grand “Kansas City Shuffle” executed by the government approving the Telecommunications Act and Viacom, Emmis Commuinications and Clearchannel in the roles of The Boss, The Rabbi, Mr. Goodkat and Slevin Kelevra (If you haven’t yet seen “Lucky Number Slevin” do so...it will all make perfect sense then).

Let us begin....at the beginning. There was a time when if you didn’t at least make a effort to speak about issues or put a conscious cut on your album you were clowned incessantly (Ask LL Cool J or any kid that rocked in African medallion back in the day for the same reason). At one point being afrocentric or conscious was mainstream.The Native Tounges crew RAN the hip hop world...groups had dancers and DJ's. That all changed over time as we entered the 90’s. 1990 was a transition year and hip hop was searching for a new direction. 1991 brought that direction, style and a bunch of new talent to the forefront (along with mad classic albums). Everything fell into place the following year, though.

It’s 1992 now. After 1991 brought the hip hop world a new influx of hip hop groups, style changes and classic albums, 1992 turned into what was called “The Year Of The Underground”by most hip hop publications (especially The Source). That year Das Efx, Redman, EPMD, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth, Black Sheep, The UMC’s, Fu-Schnickens, Cypress Hill, House Of Pain, Del The Funkee Homosapien, Mobb Deep, UGK, Common, 2Pac, Diamond, The Pharcyde, etc. all came out and either did big numbers, made a classic LP/single and/or dominated the charts...they all were different. Some were super lyrical, some just spit part rhymes. They were diverse in their styles and influences, some wore crazy ass clothes, others rocked work gear, hoodies, BDU’s and Timberlands most of the time...some rhymed about space age shit and others came up with straight up street tales, others spit battle rhymes. It didn’t matter what approach they took to the music or where they were from....they were all regarded as hip hoppers/rappers....oh yeah, a lot of them often rocked backpacks.
Whether it was Leaders Of The New School, Das Efx, Black Sheep, Redman, Black Moon, Ruff House Survivers (who had a single called “Check Da Backpack”), Mobb Deep or Onyx , heads used to rock backpacks. You could keep all your shit in ‘em! Your rhyme book, your black book (for graf), your contact information, your weed, guns, knives, pens, money, whatever! Rockin’ a backpack wasn’t an issue...Hip Hop also began invading the mainstream, moving units and becoming more and more popular with the youth across the board (Mostly industry fallout due to the crossover appeal of Dr. Dre’s dominant release “The Chronic Album”). It began seeping into MTV’s regular video rotation and taking spins away from rock videos, eventually MTV began to mix urban music videos in with their regular rotation of mostly rock music due to the surging popularity of Yo! MTV Raps. Hip Hop was on the rise creatively, musically and influence wise. 1992 also kicked off what would be later regarded as the Second Golden Age Of Hip Hop....it would last until 1996...What does tall of this shit have to do with backpackers now? I’m getting there!

In 1993, Wu Tang Clan (RZA, GZA, Ol’ Dirty Bastard, Raekwon The Chef, Ghostface Killah, U God, Masta Killa, Inspectah Deck, & Method Man), Boot Camp Click (Black Moon, Smif N Wessun, Heltah Skeltah & O.G.C.), Tha Alkaholiks and the Likwit Crew (King Tee, Lootpack (Madlib, Wildchild & DJ Romes) and Defari), Hieroglyphics Crew (Del The Funkee Homosapien, Souls Of Mischief, Extra Prolific, and Casual), The Beatnuts, Onyx, E-40, Snoop Dogg and The Roots all hit the hip hop scene hard. These names are legendary in the hip hop industry now and are extremely influential even to this day. A long ass list of seminal hip hop albums and classic releases was to come over the next 4 or 5 years so will will skip around liberally. In 1994 Notorious B.I.G.’s “Ready To Die”, Nas’” Illmatic”, Jeru Tha Damaja’s “The Sun Rises In The East”, OutKast’s “Southernplayalisticadillacmusik”, and Bone Thugs N’ Harmony’s “Creepin’ On A Come Up” EP were all released. In 1995, Mobb Deep released “The Infamous”, The Dogg Pounds “Dog Food” dropped, Raekwon released “Only Built 4 Cuban Linx” and GZA released “Liquid Swords”. In 1996 Jay-Z released “Reasonable Doubt”, Ghostface Killah’s “Ironman”, Busta Rhymes “The Coming”, Lil’ Kim “Hard Core” and The Fugees dropped...

The radio was playing all of these artists material and their videos were getting burn on MTV and BET. The South wasn’t represented very well in the mainstream and on the radio...weirder still, Southern artists were moving more units INDEPENDENTLY and properly using their channels of distribution and marketing QUIETLY FOR YEARS! A Southern rapper/group could sell 100,000-300,000 by word of mouth, shows and creating a buzz so large that it locked down whole regions of the country....no videos, little or no radio airplay. The thing was that while Hip Hop was extremely inventive, ground breaking and influential to pop culture...IT WASN’T SELLING VERY WELL!!!! If you think I’m joking go find a list of classic hip hop albums from 1986-1996 and look up how many units they sold! I was shocked to find out that albums like K-Solo’s classic LP “Tell The World My Name” from 1990 only sold 81,000+ units! This album had 2 major hits and 3 singles, “Spellbound”, “Your Mom’s Is In My Business” and “Fugitive”...If you continue to check on the sales figures of some of the most lauded and universally loved rap/hip hop albums you be shocked to find out that between 90-95% of them caught a brick! Right around the end of 1996, the industry had to go into a different direction or there would be trouble for the music industry....or so they say.
In 1996, the Telecommunications Act was passed. This allowed larger companies to go and buy independent radio stations and put them under their umbrella. The companies that benefited the most from this were Emmis Communications and Clearchannel. Soon there were “chain radio stations” in effect across the country. Next, record labels began to trim the fat and whole labels folded and several acts that were prominent before 1996 either became dropped from their labels or they experienced diminished roles of importance in the industry. Artists such as Large Professor, who was signed by Geffen years before and was seen as a landmark signing at the time...until they realized that he wasn’t ever going to move a lot of units...they shelved his album and released him from his deal immeadiately. Right around this time a division in the industry began to happen...by 1997 it would be complete.

The division was mainly between the normally “underground/gutter/grimy” and “conscious” hip hop heads and the artists that rhymed about material wealth and the like. A rift had already formed between artist such as Notorious B.I.G. and members of the Bad Boy camp or associates of B.I.G. and Jeru Tha Damaja, O.G.C. and even Ghostface Killah, Raekwon and Nas. Jay-Z dropped Reasonable Doubt and made rhyming about wealth, extravagance and hustling seem so fly that between B.I.G. and Jay Z, they spawned a LEGION OF BITERS!!! None of them took into account that Jay-Z and B.I.G. were two of the greatest lyricists of all times and that attributed to the music being so appealing...they figured “If I name drop Gucci, Versace, Donna Karan, DKNY, etc. and rhyme about selling crack, I’ll BLOW UP!”

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

continued....


On the other side of things, 2Pac, who first burst on the scene with Digital Underground and dropped his first album “2Pacalypse Now” back in 1992 (check the sales numbers!) had become a veritable superstar in his own right. He dropped “Strictly For My N.I.G.G.A.Z” in 1993 before being incarcerated and was released to drop the double album ”Me Against The World” to huge sales and much fanfare. The same went for his next album “All Eyez On Me”. 2Pac had a SERIOUS beef with B.I.G. (that involved factors other than just music...even though he admitted to using it to move more units to some journalists such as Danyel Smith and dream hampton (she uses lowercases in her name!)). 2Pac was a giant in the industry as was B.I.G...his sophomore album was set to come out as well as Bad Boy’s “Hell Up In Harlem” starring Puff Daddy & The Family..a crew of young upstart emcees that Puffy signed strictly off of the strength that they got to be on the same label as B.I.G.
The mainstream and hip hop media wrote story after story, feature after feature about the “East Coast/West Coast Beef”. Sales shot up, media coverage increased...very few noticed the Willie Lynch theory being put into action and played into it entirely. 2Pac had readied a few projects as well, looking to get out of his 7 album deal with Death Row early...he recorded non stop. Ultimately, one fateful night 10 years ago....2Pac was gunned down before he got to put the finishing touch on his 3 part Makaveli series and his One Nation LP that would have fufilled his Death Row deal and made him a free agent again. Tensions increased and much animosity was sent towards the Bad Boy camp and especially Puff Daddy and Notorious B.I.G....2Pac’s first Makaveli project dropped posthumously and did HUGE numbers...it still sells to this day.

The radio has changed completely by 1997, as did MTV and BET...MTV switched their former format of mixing independent music, college radio favorites and hip hop/urban videos along with rock ones...They introduced a new flagship show called “Total Request Live” AKA TRL. The era of Grunge/Alternative Rock had also come to an end just as the Second Golden Age Of Hiip Hop had...Record labels instead looked to sign the “next big thing”. Pop music made a HUGE comeback. Boy bands, girl groups and teen acts were tested with the public and MTV’’s TRL became a testing market/showcase to the teenybopper consumers that it was attracting...Ratings went through the roof for MTV after they introduced a new countdown show that launched the careers of N’Sync, The BackStreet Boys, 98º, The Spice Girls, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Jessica Simpson, Mandy Moore and a host of other pop acts...Sales were up and the industry was back!

Hip hop labels and execs knew what direction they had to take to get sales up..Notorious B.I.G. was about to drop his sophomore album “Life After Death” and that would set the stage for everything...until tragedy struck ONCE AGAIN. The Notorious B.I.G. was gunned down in California before his album was released. This sent a ripple effect throughout the industry. Notorious B.I.G.’s sophomore album dropped and did HUGE NUMBERS...sense a pattern here, people? After B.I.G.’s passing, a hurt Puff Daddy threw himself into his work and rerecreated his “Hell Up In Harlem” project into “No Way Out”. The album was released after some largely succesful singles and did HUGE NUMBERS. Jay-Z released “In My Lifetime Vol.1” as was seen as the next to become “King Of New York”. They even crossed over into mainstream radio. Record labels also discovered that if they signed southern artists that they could make noise in the industry as well. Think for a moment...if you sell 100,000-300,000 units WITHOUT A VIDEO, RADIO AIRPLAY OR NATIONWIDE DISTRIBUTION, how many units would you move WITH THEM? No Limit Records, Suave House Records and later Cash Money Records would change the face of the music industry forever continuing the legacy that Houston’s Rap A Lot Records had laid down.

With the shift in the hip hop industry that happened in 1996/7, the underground became it’s own separate entity as opposed to just being a part of the larger hip hop diaspora. These emcees and groups refused to emulate the jiggy/shiny suit/cash flow/thug/mafioso/hustler image that was blowing up all over the radio at the time. Groups that were once juggernauts, such as Wu Tang Clan, Boot Camp Clik, and even Bone Thugs N’ Harmony began to experience a decrease in popularity, and in airplay, video play after releasing their 1997 albums. The industry has shifted...Two thrones were now vacant, and EVERYONE was rushing to fill them.

There were Biggie and ‘Pac imitators everywhere. Independent distributors like Fat Beats Records, Sanbox Automatic, and many others began to specialize in putting out independent vinyl releases made by groups that were played on college radio and circulated on underground mixtapes. Indie labels like Solesides, Stones Throw, Rawkus, Fondle ‘Em, Raw Shack, Bomb Hiip Hop, Hydra and Brick began to release singles that attracted many fans that were turned off by the rap now getting spins on the radio. They began to utilize the internet to sell this underground music and make it possible to listen to it all over the world. Heads would log on to 88HipHop.com, Duckdown.com, Rawkus.com, HipHopSite.com, UndergroundHipHop.com and SandboxAutomatic.com to hear the latest J Live, Company Flow, Hieroglyphics, Sir Menelik, Mos Def and Latryx joints that they couldn’t hear on the radio where they lived or purchase the music that they heard on college radio but didn’t have a place to buy it. Long story short, THE BACKPACKER WAS BORN!!!

By 1998, Def Jam had found the formula to make hits again and released DMX, Ja Rule, Method Man, Redman, and Jay-Z albums that made serious noise. Along with the Cash Money Records roster, No Limit Records roster, Roc A Fella Records and Lauryn Hill’s “The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill”. Rap music had made HUGE inroads into pop culture and once Def Jam sent the Survival Of The Illest Tour and Hard Knock Life Tour out and they were highly successful and without any incidents of violence in small and large venues. This occurence opened the floodgates for major hip hop tours to play to huge arenas again. This also put the nail in the coffin for the Underground to ever join the Mainstream rap scene again. A hip hop Civil War has been going on ever since. If you were born in the late 70’s or the early 80’s you are aware of everything that I broke down above, if you were born afterwards, you might possibly consider Lupe Fiasco to be a “backpacker”. This term can be used as an adjective or a derogatory term given the context. It makes me laugh, really. None of the people that use this term realize that it’s all basically the product of a perfectly executed plan to remove the creativity, lyricism, fun and conciousness from mainstream rap. The Willie Lynch theory was once again put into effect. Conscious vs. Material. Hustlers vs. Emcees. Underground vs. Mainstream. Crunk vs. Hyphy. Reggaeton vs. Grime. Old vs. Young....Yes, indeed.

So think about the next time you see or hear someone use the term “backpacker” and think about the events that happened in the past that started 10 years that brought this term into creation and common usage. Keep in mind that mainstream rap is ONCE AGAIN at a crossroads and experiencing a drought as far as appeal, influence and sales numbers are concerned. MTV doesn’t even CARE about Rap or Hip Hop right now and they seem to be distancing themselves from it. What chain of events will happen next that will cause someone else to be writing another blog 10 years from now recounting how the Hip Hop industry got to be the was it is in 2016 going into 2017?

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

so what do you guys think?

[Comic_Mobsta]

Very very nice post...it all makes sense..

That one part made it seem like everything was Jay-Z and B.I.G.'s fault for the "wealth, extravagance and hustling" era though...it wasnt their fault that people clung onto it...i think labels just capitalized on everyone who stupidly bit Big and Jay..

[blackdragon6]

i finnaly got around to reading this over the weekend.and i knew what it was about soon as i came to the phrase "telecommunications act".having said that the blogger should have summed it up a little.

[Shellhead]

i finnaly got around to reading this over the weekend.and i knew what it was about soon as i came to the phrase "telecommunications act".having said that the blogger should have summed it up a little.

I think you're nailed the point. The same thing that happened to hip-hop happened to rock, at roughly the same time. The creative and alternative types got squeezed out by the unimaginative mainstream players as the broadcasters consolidated. It's not about discrimination, it's just about the money.

[blackdragon6]

I think you're nailed the point. The same thing that happened to hip-hop happened to rock, at roughly the same time. The creative and alternative types got squeezed out by the unimaginative mainstream players as the broadcasters consolidated. It's not about discrimination, it's just about the money.
yeah they started buying up the small independent radio stations.i think music as a whole would be better if that bill didn't get passed.

[Van Custo]

Either extreme is annoying. he super fake amazingly played out gangstas and the nerds talking about alien dna growing from pretzels.

Just like on the skit at the end of Reef's Crown Of Thorns track.


"My artist Corleone Capone! BIG DAWGS!!! ARF! i rock the rock, block the cop, cop the rock, the block is hot, cop the glock!!!! ITS HOT!!! did i mention i got crack nigga! Bricks out my ass nigga!"

And then the opposite ...

"my rhyme style you cant even nmeasure!
I flow like helium at 300 atmospheric pressure!
purple donkey skins flying with dreams
not everthing is what it seems!
I balance atoms over adams head like beams
supreme, im white like light, icarus complex
hydra greek mythology anal sex!!"

[RickDangerous]

This was a decent read, but I feel that it merely propogates an aspect that doesn't get a lot of credit (of course, the argument can be made that there simply wasn't commercial appeal for it) is that the original pioneers are simply overlooked when it comes to hip hop, and it all starts with The Sugar Hill Gang juxin' Grandmaster Caz's rhymes for their radio hit. Afrika Bambataa, Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Grandwizard Theodore, the pioneers were all collectively left in the dust. To this day they don't get the respect they deserve.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Either extreme is annoying. he super fake amazingly played out gangstas and the nerds talking about alien dna growing from pretzels.

Just like on the skit at the end of Reef's Crown Of Thorns track.


"My artist Corleone Capone! BIG DAWGS!!! ARF! i rock the rock, block the cop, cop the rock, the block is hot, cop the glock!!!! ITS HOT!!! did i mention i got crack nigga! Bricks out my ass nigga!"

And then the opposite ...

"my rhyme style you cant even nmeasure!
I flow like helium at 300 atmospheric pressure!
purple donkey skins flying with dreams
not everthing is what it seems!
I balance atoms over adams head like beams
supreme, im white like light, icarus complex
hydra greek mythology anal sex!!"the-greatest-post-EVER!!!


This was a decent read, but I feel that it merely propogates an aspect that doesn't get a lot of credit (of course, the argument can be made that there simply wasn't commercial appeal for it) is that the original pioneers are simply overlooked when it comes to hip hop, and it all starts with The Sugar Hill Gang juxin' Grandmaster Caz's rhymes for their radio hit. Afrika Bambataa, Kool Herc, Grandmaster Flash, Grandwizard Theodore, the pioneers were all collectively left in the dust. To this day they don't get the respect they deserve.
well he sort of touched on this

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

I think its the elitism of the "backpackers" thats the problem.At one point in time all hiphop was imbraced regardless of the subgenre (well not really but you get the idea).Now that the hip-hop "eco system" is so narrow its only natural that hip-hop fans would turn into crabs in a barel and start attacking each other,Fighting over what little space is left.Theres no room for everyone anymore now that Cox and Clear channel own most of the radio stations.

[bfrank]

Very very nice post...it all makes sense..

That one part made it seem like everything was Jay-Z and B.I.G.'s fault for the "wealth, extravagance and hustling" era though...it wasnt their fault that people clung onto it...i think labels just capitalized on everyone who stupidly bit Big and Jay..
No blame for the people who keep eating it up....I'm sayin', I'm all for knocking the label, but one can not blame them for wanting to make money, but are the people that bit Jay and biggie stupid, or the people that bought their stuf.....

I'm gonna go with the people that bought their stuff....

[bfrank]

I think its the elitism of the "backpackers" thats the problem.At one point in time all hiphop was imbraced regardless of the subgenre (well not really but you get the idea).Now that the hip-hop "eco system" is so narrow its only natural that hip-hop fans would turn into crabs in a barel and start attacking each other,Fighting over what little space is left.Theres no room for everyone anymore now that Cox and Clear channel own most of the radio stations.
that's just not true....the said thing is we've pretty much attacked each other from jump (ie Brooklyn vs the bronx vs queens....east vs west.....east vs south etc...)

again, blaming radio is the easy answer......

[blackdragon6]

No blame for the people who keep eating it up....I'm sayin', I'm all for knocking the label, but one can not blame them for wanting to make money, but are the people that bit Jay and biggie stupid, or the people that bought their stuf.....

I'm gonna go with the people that bought their stuff....thats true...

[blackdragon6]

that's just not true....the said thing is we've pretty much attacked each other from jump (ie Brooklyn vs the bronx vs queens....east vs west.....east vs south etc...)

again, blaming radio is the easy answer......Its not completly untrue either..

[CHEYENNE-BLACKBIRD]

that's just not true....the said thing is we've pretty much attacked each other from jump (ie Brooklyn vs the bronx vs queens....east vs west.....east vs south etc...)To be blunt that was primarily the east that was snubbing people.Eitherway my point was that the situations with the radio ADDED to the problem that already existed.Before hand there was room to breath now its like animals in one cage.

[Royal]

I think its the elitism of the "backpackers" thats the problem.At one point in time all hiphop was imbraced regardless of the subgenre (well not really but you get the idea).Now that the hip-hop "eco system" is so narrow its only natural that hip-hop fans would turn into crabs in a barel and start attacking each other,Fighting over what little space is left.Theres no room for everyone anymore now that Cox and Clear channel own most of the radio stations.

Well...if you and others will stop moaning about how there "is little left" and y'know actually rose up and fought Cox and Clear, you wouldn't have reason to make that comment.

But you know that all the wealth of music comes from the radio, now don't you?

[blackdragon6]

Well...if you and others will stop moaning about how there "is little left" and y'know actually rose up and fought Cox and Clear, you wouldn't have reason to make that comment.


there was suppose to be sometype of political mumbo jumbo that was SUPPOSE to stop corperations from eating up everything in the raddio industry but it stalled,or either didn't get pass at all.

[Royal]

Then keep fighting until it DOES get past.

Unless it's a KO blow, I ain't gonna fall back just because I got hit in the face.

And if that don't work, make your own damn channel. Sell stuff out your trunk. Be a pusher, push your product and get everyone high on the music!

[bfrank]

And if that don't work, make your own damn channel. Sell stuff out your trunk. Be a pusher, push your product and get everyone high on the music!
Right. In this day in age, artist aren't making money from record sales any way, and radio play is beginning to become a moot point with the internet, and things like you tube, itunes and myspace....Seriously, who hasn't heard of little brother by now, I doubt that they are getting to much air play out side of North Carolina, if at all....blaming radio for the sad state of hip hop is a bit short sighted.....

[Cozmicdawg]

Great Article. As a head in the first golden era I have lamented the loss of variety in hip-hop and even quit listening for awhile. I have to agree that the Clear Channel consolidation has alot to do with this. BTW did you see their concert venue arm (LiveNation) just bought House of Blues last month? They were the last major Ampitheatre competitor left. While the internet has started to even the playing field, it can't compare to the power of TV 7 radio. It's easy for us to talk about the power of the internet as we are on a message board, and a forum devoted to music as well. We are not the average music consumer and the average music conusmer, unfortunately, has not heard Little Brother's The Minstrel Show.

[Shellhead]

there was suppose to be sometype of political mumbo jumbo that was SUPPOSE to stop corperations from eating up everything in the raddio industry but it stalled,or either didn't get pass at all.

Michael Powell, son of Colin Powell, used his authority at the FCC to make it easier for a few corporations to get control of a lot of the airwaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Powell_%28politician%29

[blackdragon6]

While the internet has started to even the playing field, it can't compare to the power of TV 7 radio. It's easy for us to talk about the power of the internet as we are on a message board, and a forum devoted to music as well. We are not the average music consumer and the average music conusmer, unfortunately, has not heard Little Brother's The Minstrel Show.not to mention the digital divide while shortening is still keeping people off the net.

[blackdragon6]

Michael Powell, son of Colin Powell, used his authority at the FCC to make it easier for a few corporations to get control of a lot of the airwaves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Powell_%28politician%29yeah i couldn't think of his name at the time but i knew he was the son of colin.

[bfrank]

Great Article. As a head in the first golden era I have lamented the loss of variety in hip-hop and even quit listening for awhile. I have to agree that the Clear Channel consolidation has alot to do with this. BTW did you see their concert venue arm (LiveNation) just bought House of Blues last month? They were the last major Ampitheatre competitor left. While the internet has started to even the playing field, it can't compare to the power of TV 7 radio. It's easy for us to talk about the power of the internet as we are on a message board, and a forum devoted to music as well. We are not the average music consumer and the average music conusmer, unfortunately, has not heard Little Brother's The Minstrel Show.
the average music consumer, perhaps not, the average hip hop consumer has.....

[Van Custo]

Elitism is a problem on both sides like I already said. All the little college hippie nerds with their Lexicon cd's hate on anything real and anything that their lives obviosly can't relate to and then the super studio thugs act like it's corny to be intelligent, like it's normal to get shot every week over bricks.

Rap as any genre should be diverse, and have all kinds of aspects, but they should all be quality. But that goes for any genre. It's not a civil war between artists, it's just the dumbass fans. Aesop Rock is a nerd rapper but he isn't dissing Ice Cube, and Cube ain't dissing him.

As for pioneers getting credit, they do. Sugar Hill doesn't deserve anything more then what they got. They had one of the first hit songs, which they didn't even write and they weren't very good. They were the hip-hop equivilent of a boy band being manufactured today, only Hill didn't have hit songs, but just A song. Kool Herc gets credit. Bambaata gets credit. They get credit for starting hip-hop. What else should they get? Lets be real they didn't make countless classic albums and etc, and they're not some amazing MC's. The poeple who really shaped Afrika's and Herc's creation are guys like Rakim, Kool G Rap, Ice-T, KRS-One, LL Cool J, Big Daddy Kane and a few others. And They deserve more credit. I know kids who think Kool G Rap is a new rapper. Not realizing pretty much 90% of MC's in the East is just following the blueprint he made with the thug shit.

And the media does make everything 10 times worse, and should take the major part of the blame in he East vs. West garbage. The other portion should go to the absolute idiots and morons who think like animals and gangbangers and obsess with territory and coasts. Like if you're from the East you gotta only be able to like and create a certain tyoe of music. What kind of dumbass shit is that? Suge Knight's dumbass made a few comments and from that it exploded.


The REAL problem with rap today is all of us. The greedy business side of it with all the labels naturaly wanting max money in minimum time. A song becomes a hit, and every other artist is expected to copy that and capitalize on the success of the trend. The labels are a huge problem. That's why Rawkus was so good, it let artists do what they wanted. Then there's the MC's who say fuck hip-hop and decide money is more important and basicly just give in, and start copying and pumping out mediocre music as fast as they can, and it all ends up sounding the same. And the ones who are dope, sometimes get sick of not getting any shine, money, and everything else for their music. They eventualy give in. Thanks to us, the ans cuz we blab about great music, but then we don't support the great artists. We burn their shit off the net. But all the little 14 year old kids will run and cop the new 50 and G-Unit cd. Also the general public has just become so dumb and simple these days it's pathetic. Years of bullshit has turned most of us into drooling ass drones.


If anything was gonna change, you'd need all the true hip-hop fans who been here from the start to begin supporting the quality music and not buy the bullshit. The artists all refuse to do whatever the're told and get their self-respect back and be ill. To want to be the sickest MC again. Like back in the day when what you said was what got you respect and play. Back then the sickest records got the play. Now you get respect off sales no matter how shitty your song is. Once everyone refuses to support that shit the labels would have to make what the crowd wants and is willing to pay for.

Then we can have equal shine for both dance music, and serious music. Nobody is a dancing hippie 24-7 or a crying emo lol. We can have a damn balance. And it could all be quality.

[Cozmicdawg]

the average music consumer, perhaps not, the average hip hop consumer has.....


I would argue that with hip-hop dominating the pop charts the way it has the last few years, the average hip-hop consumer is a 14-16 year old suburban kid. Very few of which have been turned on to Little Brother.

[Van Custo]

I would argue that with hip-hop dominating the pop charts the way it has the last few years, the average hip-hop consumer is a 14-16 year old suburban kid. Very few of which have been turned on to Little Brother.

Yes, that's true.

But Hip-Hop has recently been falling off the charts. It's not dominating aywhere near how it used to. Soon all the little "weekend hip-hopers" and the ones who just liked it for the trend will go away and that's for the best.

[KenK]

I would argue that with hip-hop dominating the pop charts the way it has the last few years, the average hip-hop consumer is a 14-16 year old suburban kid. Very few of which have been turned on to Little Brother.

I like Little Brother, but I'm frankly tired of people (not, you personally, Cozmicdawg) putting them out there as the "only" conscious/intelligent/etc. MCs out there. They're great and all, and even I jumped on the bandwagon when The Minstrel Show came out, but damn! There are plenty of other acts out there (if you haven't heard Kidz In The Hall - "School Was My Hustle", cop dat shit!).

My thing has always been that there needs to be balance and diversity, as Camron Amaya is saying. I can't hate on Jay-Z 'cause, goddamit, the man's made himself Scrooge McDuck Paper!! He's acquired that wealth for himself, and if that's what he's gonna rap about, I can't fault him. But dammit if I wouldn't like to see more artists that weren't on that tip.

I also like the Clipse, even though all they do is rap about cocaine! But dammit if they don't do it well. They're VERY good MCs.

It's these dumbasses rollin' in tricked out Caddys with rims that cost more than the actual car, and can't pay mortgage on a house, that get on my last nerve! I'll forgive a few dudes here and there if they have any real lyrical skills, but some of these jackasses just ride a beat. No one cares if the rhyming's good so long as the beat's hot. The market is FLOODED with acts like these, going all the way back to the early rise of Cash Money in the mainstream.

Then you've got Game. I'd have more respect for Game if he didn't spend most of his new album, dubiously titled "Doctor's Advocate", talking about Dr. Dre, who didn't return to do beats on the new album, how Dre took him under his wing, how he can rock a party even if Dre ain't on the beats, etc. True definition of dick-ridin'.

[Royal]

God, I fucking hated Cash Money.

And I double fucking hated their fans.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

Yes, that's true.

But Hip-Hop has recently been falling off the charts. It's not dominating aywhere near how it used to. Soon all the little "weekend hip-hopers" and the ones who just liked it for the trend will go away and that's for the best.
thats for damn sure...i dream of this day.