Spawn's decline? What happen???

[Effect]

I remember int he 90s Spawn was huge and I have to admit I even enjoyed the film and HBO series. However since I wasn't really a comic book reader and it's only been recently I've gotten into checking out some comics since I've mainly been a manga reader I've been wondering what happen.

What happen to Spawn's popularity?

Was there a huge decline in writing and art?

Did Marvel and DC comics all of a sudden at once get significantly better and all attention went to those comics?

What exactly happen to the series and character and is there any way it can get back to the level it was at?

Thanks.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Spawn is a comic book series about a mean zombie superhero from hell who fights big monsters. That's not enough material to last for decades.

[surfDUI]

It was the flagship for the 90's comic book hype machine, It never had the legs to stand, just like most of Image's lineup of superhero's. The artwork was the star.

Plus it was a very dark superhero story, I mean it wasn't good dark like Sandman, or Swamp Thing more like Savage Dragon w/ Satan.

I mean McFarlane's going to live high on the hog for the 5 or so years when he was crankin that series out anyway.

[Schmakt]

personally, I lost interest (and stopped buying it) when Todd stopped drawing it.

The character was kind of cool and all, but (not to knock Greg's art) I was reading it for Todd's art first. (as someone else already mentioned) I didn't want someone who could look like McFarlane. I wanted McFarlane. I also became jaded b/c, if the character's creator couldn't stick with the character, then why should I?

Had Todd continued drawing it, I would have continued reading it... at least past #25 up until I pretty much completely got out of comics.

[the film freak]

I kind of thought the art was a lot better when Capullo took over. He was a stronger storyteller then McFarlane and knew anatomy and perspective much better. And he still incorporated some of McFarlanes interesting traits. I don't know. I thought it looked good.

I think you could do some interesting stuff with Spawn. I don't think the book has gone out of it's way to put Spawn outside his urban/metaphysical environment. The character tends to be one note which is a disadvantage not say you couldn't create a new Spawn (he's one of many Spawn) with a more engaging backstory.

[the film freak]

[FONT="Georgia"]Plus it was a very dark superhero story, I mean it wasn't good dark like Sandman, or Swamp Thing more like Savage Dragon w/ Satan.

Other then them both being urban superheros and a lot of violece and action in their books (though Dragon stories movie at a faster pace then Spawns) I don't see that much similarity with Savage Dragon.

Savage Dragon has it's dark moments but it has a lot of light hearted moments as well. Dragon didn't brood as much as Spawn did. Dragon is pretty well adjusted compared to the other early Image characters.

[Alan2099]

Spawn stars a character that's really not very sympathetic most of the time and was featured in plots that moved extremely slow and mostly didn't take adavntage of their potnetial.

[bird]

i think it was all about marketing. when image comics started up it needed big star characters to match batman, superman, spiderman, hulk ect...

since dark characters was the flavor of the day spawn made it into the mainstream a bit. they also tried it with maxx, with the mtv cartoon series.

fortunatly maxx and pitt new when to stop. it's suprising to see spawn still being published. i haven't read it since after the 20 something issue so i don't know where the story went.

it was nice to have the hbo series because i was always the guy with the comic book fixation and after that series came out my friends thought that maybe comic books could be "cool". i remember a friend stopping by and looking at my spawn comics and he folded the front cover over to the back and i went into a mint condition rant.

afterwards we had a smoke and listen to chaos a.d. by sepultura and all was forgotten (literally). ahh the 90's :D

[Johnny_H]

Its still not doing too bad? its not doing Marvel or DC numbers but its still doing decent. The current Armageddon series is great, totally awesome I recommend it to anyone who has left the series and wanting to come back. I hadn't read a single issue of spawn since issue 17 ? and I picked up 150 and I was hooked! its awesome!

I love spawn I think the story is great, there is far more too it then just monsters and hell, but to each of his or her own. My local comic shops are always sold out of spawn issues lol.

[Punisher]

I also urge anyone who's interested to pick up the current storyline. It's great!!

[Erisu Kimu]

I always loved the early Spawn. Those were the classics. Even the animated movies kept my interest in the Spawn series. However, I haven't followed this title in a long time and kind of forgot all about it. The last time I heard people talk about Spawn, they said something about how Al Simmons was no longer Spawn? I might have heard wrong or something. Oh yeah, I also picked up the Spawn Manga, which is a story focusing on a Japanese guy turning into a Hellspawn. It's okay I guess. Clown's in it at least.

[brahmabull]

I think what hurt spawn was Todd not drawing it or writting it after around issue 100 or so. Also he got into his legal battle with gaimen where alot of people supported gaimen and he had big plans for miricleman in his series which put back his image 10th aniversary issue about 4 yrs. You add marvels ultimate line and then DC comes out with idenity crisis and now marvel has civil war it has just put those two over the top.

[Agent Helix]

The first issue came out.

[DoctorDoom]

The first issue came out.
ah Agent Helix...your wit never ceases to make me chuckle...

Anyhoo anyone picking up new Spawn/Batman?

[Michael P]

People realized the comic sucked on toast.

[Agent Helix]

And off toast.

In fact, they realized that the toast was pretty much irrelevant.

[Sam T.]

After about issue 50, the series was just going on cruise control. Todd McFarlane should have been the artist on the book for the first 100 issues...but he got too busy!

[brundlefly]

The first issue came out.

Heh, nice one. :D

I dug the HBO series and tried to get into the comic every so often, but the storylines just never seemed to go anywhere and when McFarlane didn't appear to care much about the series himself (beyond making money off of it), I stopped even peripherally following it and haven't checked it out in a long time. Some of the Sam and Twitch spinoff stuff was pretty good, but McFarlane has even less to do with that and Spawn was not a regular in the series, so that's not really relevant. I gave the Spawn comics a try since I liked the animated series, but they never did much for me and their failure to tell a coherent story turned me off.

[lonewolf23k]

You hit it on the money, Brundlefly. The stories never went anywhere. It just kept building up and up and up, and when it finally did something to resolve... well, anything, it just felt weak.

I doubt Todd McFarlane had anything planned, and was making everything up as he went along.

...Oh, and losing the rights to characters like Cogliostro and Angela was just frickin' stupid, since they had to retcon everything to overwrite them..

[Kid Kyoto]

You hit it on the money, Brundlefly. The stories never went anywhere. It just kept building up and up and up, and when it finally did something to resolve... well, anything, it just felt weak.

I doubt Todd McFarlane had anything planned, and was making everything up as he went along.

...Oh, and losing the rights to characters like Cogliostro and Angela was just frickin' stupid, since they had to retcon everything to overwrite them..

I dropped it realatively early, issue 20 or so. 2 reasons, Todd left which to me was a betrayal of a lot of the things he said when he founded Image. Now Spawn was just another work for hire book, the fact he owned it didn't matter, the real creators, the people writing and drawing it weren't the owners.

Also they dropped the Spawn-o-meter which showed his power dropping. Todd said it was too limited which again, meant there was no plan, no direction, no ultimate goal. And no reason to keep reading.

[DoctorDoom]

You hit it on the money, Brundlefly. The stories never went anywhere. It just kept building up and up and up, and when it finally did something to resolve... well, anything, it just felt weak.

I doubt Todd McFarlane had anything planned, and was making everything up as he went along.

...Oh, and losing the rights to characters like Cogliostro and Angela was just frickin' stupid, since they had to retcon everything to overwrite them..
What do you mean he lost the rights?

[brahmabull]

I belive he lost those rights when he and Neil Gaimen were in legal battle for the rights to Mircleman. Losing those 3 characters really hurt the book because they were so important to the continuity of the series.

[DoctorDoom]

I belive he lost those rights when he and Neil Gaimen were in legal battle for the rights to Mircleman. Losing those 3 characters really hurt the book because they were so important to the continuity of the series.
Hrm...thanks. And now I know....

....And knowing is half the battle!

[Poe Ghostal]

Spawn is a comic book series about a mean zombie superhero from hell who fights big monsters. That's not enough material to last for decades.Hellboy is a comic book series about a demon superhero from hell who fights big monsters. And it won an Eisner.

Granted, Hellboy has become a lot more than monster-fighting--which is why I think your second statement is a tad glib. Spawn could have become more than monster-fighting. The premise was fine, the flaw was in the execution.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Hellboy is a comic book series about a demon superhero from hell who fights big monsters. And it won an Eisner.

Granted, Hellboy has become a lot more than monster-fighting--which is why I think your second statement is a tad glib. Spawn could have become more than monster-fighting. The premise was fine, the flaw was in the execution.
The operating word in my statement was "zombie".

[the film freak]

The operating word in my statement was "zombie".

I always thought Spawn was more of a ghoul then a zombie.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I always thought Spawn was more of a ghoul then a zombie.
I wouldn't know, I don't have my Monster Manual with me.

[Johnny_H]

What kills me is people are so easily to complain about Spawn of 10 years ago, when the new art team Philip Tan and writer David Hine are making Spawn my favorite series, it is the only series I refuse to check spoilers or previews, I don't even want to see covers before they hit shelves.

I am a spawn fan through and through, I haven't been reading the comic at all since issue 17 when I was a little kid so I don't have any bitter memories or stigma attached to the title.

Spawn is awesome now though with Armageddon kicking off and the world in tatters, literally demons are tearing earth to pieces the whole series has been gearing up for Armageddon and its finally kicking off and happening.

So that is hardly nothing happening.

[tkitna]

I collected the first 25 issues and finally woke up to realize that I never liked it. I just collected it. It was pretty terrible actually and I doubt i'll ever read those comics again.

[Superboy Prime]

With Todd Mcfarlane's Spawn, I always felt it's decline in sales was not that of the title's slow paced, almost always drawn out storylines that never reached their potential, but a case of the comic industry doing very badly in of itself during the late 90's. Because basically, the Spawn Hype machine was in full effect for much of the early to mid 90's to about the time the live action film version made it's debut which I believe was in the summer of 1997 (The much more superior HBO animated series made it's debut shortly before the film as well if I am not mistaken). Upon that film's debut, the hype surrounding Spawn up to that point arguably had reached it's peak (comic sales were still in the top 10 if I remember correctly), and from there on, slowly but steadily, Todd Mcfarlane's Spawn began it's steady decline downhill.

But during the time of Spawn's downslide, the comic industry in itself was experiencing the same dilemma. Which didnt really turn around until the early 2000's. So ultimately, I don't think it was the actual stories (which I admit were often lackluster) that resulted in Mcfarlane's Spawn to experience it's decline, but rather the status of the industry itself which was taking place roughly at the same time of Spawn's decline. Unfortunately, the title failed in taking advantage of the comic book industry's resurgence, but I do hear the stories now are much better than they were during Spawn's "heyday".

So here's to hoping the new writers can actually do something with the title and character that Mcfarlane unfortunately proved incapable of doing.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Hellboy is a comic book series about a demon superhero from hell who fights big monsters. And it won an Eisner.


Yes, but has Hellboy been coming out monthly for over a decade? Remember, that was one of the original conditions (I love Hellboy- I just wanted to play devil's advocate here).


I always thought Spawn was more of a ghoul then a zombie.

I think he meant a figurative zombie, not literally. Although both uses of the word work to me. A zombie is just a reanimated corps, is it not?

And since the people who actually read the book seem to like it a lot, I think its pretty safe to say that the book is a good read these days.

[diablo7]

anytime you have an artist/writer that just sits down and draws 24 pages that ahve nothign to do with anything, just because they look cool, then he arranges them in an order , the book has no direction...i've always thought of spawn as a character with limited potential...

[Kid Kamikaze10]

What almost killed it for me was the fact that two out of five favorite Spawn characters were taken out of the series' continuity.

My top five characters in the Spawn Universe were (not in this order):

1) Cog
2) Angela
3) Sam
4) Twitch
5) Medieval Spawn

Guess who isn't on that list? That's right, Al Simmons (Spawn). He might not even be on my top 10.

Issue 150 and beyond brought me back to the series, but even then, I still miss Cog and Angela.

[the film freak]

What almost killed it for me was the fact that two out of five favorite Spawn characters were taken out of the series' continuity.

My top five characters in the Spawn Universe were (not in this order):

1) Cog
2) Angela
3) Sam
4) Twitch
5) Medieval Spawn

Guess who isn't on that list? That's right, Al Simmons (Spawn). He might not even be on my top 10.

Issue 150 and beyond brought me back to the series, but even then, I still miss Cog and Angela.

Actually three out of five. Medieval Spawn is off limits now too.

[Agentum]

The main character is to whiny really, in the long run.

And McFarlane probably just as some noted made up the story as i comes.
He did that with Spider-man, just drawed a lot of cool drawings, puzzled them together and then made up a story about them.

So i would think losing him on the book would have made it better.

I recently read issue 1-31 and really i think the HBO show was better than the this book is.

The movie sucked badly.

[diablo7]

there was an interview with him in wizard, when spawn came out and he described his writing style as just drawing what looks cool the putting it together...that's why the clock jumps time in the series

[The Shadow]

Medieval Spawn is off limits now too.

Why is that?

[3970010]

I recently bought a used piece of furniture that had three "Image" comic books in it. One was the May 1992 spawn. These comic books are in a piece of plastic with what looks like a little piece of cardboard behind it. They appear unread to me. Any interest in the Spawn one?

[Rob on the Job]

I always perceived "Spawn" as being a vehicle to sell toys and other licensing.

[The Shadow]

I recently bought a used piece of furniture that had three "Image" comic books in it. One was the May 1992 spawn. These comic books are in a piece of plastic with what looks like a little piece of cardboard behind it. They appear unread to me. Any interest in the Spawn one?

No... the Spawn comics are quite common.

Go to eBay and enter Spawn and the issue number and you'll get an idea of value.

[the film freak]

Why is that?

Neil Gaiman owns half of the rights.

[Norrin Radd]

One of the problems is that Spawn has always lacked a strong, cohesive supporting universe, unlike the popular characters from Marvel and DC. So when the writing or art on Spawn fails, there's not really any other titles to anchor the readers to the comic.

[Agentum]

Neil Gaiman owns half of the rights.

And i wish he could have the rest too, it's a lot more intresting what he and Moore could do with Miracleman than what McFarlane would do.

[Xero Kaiser]

Spawn is awesome now though with Armageddon kicking off and the world in tatters, literally demons are tearing earth to pieces the whole series has been gearing up for Armageddon and its finally kicking off and happening.

That needed to happen a long time ago. For the longest time, it seemed like Spawn was all setup and no payoff.

Better late than never I guess. It's more than what most superhero books give you. I'll check it out if I can find any issues around here

[Crash-Man]

With Spawn, it's not only what happened to the comic...it's also what happened to the readers.

They grew up.

[K.O.V.G]

Spawn is still a good comic to me I love the series and it's still going and getting better too.

[Kelly Tindall]

It got to the point where I realized that nothing was happening. Nothing had happened, nothing was going to happen.

Stasis.

Involving a grumpy, friendless monster in an alley.

See ya, Toddy.

-K.

[G. Wayne]

I had most of Spawn from about #1 to #55. The main reason I stopped getting the series at the time was financial. But thinking about it, I agree with what most have said already, the storyline didn't go anywhere. The movie bombing didn't help the property in the public's eye either.

There were way too many "Let's put Spawn in Situation X for an issue or 2, that oughtta be fun!" stories. The main story to the book for that matter was more of a situation at the time anyway. Spawn was in the alley, wanted to stay in the alley, and occassionally a Villain-of-the-Month would stop by or Cogliostro would argue with him. The biggest bloody development when I was reading the book was the grim n' gritty costume change.

Didn't know McFarlane lost the rights to Angela, Medieval Spawn AND Cogliostro. Ouch. (IIRC, Gaiman was contacted to come up with some stuff for Spawn, and he created those characters.) Cog was the cliche cryptic mentor type in the book for like ever.

Having read about what's happened since though...eh. Not my thing. You like it, more power to you.

[HauntedHal]

The whole idea of Spawn was great, but blown by bad writing and McFarlane himself. What I originally loved about the comic was the art and the CLOCK. Spawn's powers were limited, forcing him to come up with traditional ways of combat.

But the clock counting down just vanished from the comic. No explanation. McFarlane just "changed his mind."

Aside from the guest writers, the usual authors seldom have a clear vision of where they're going when they're writing the story. So many times a plot point is forgotten or changed, as if the writer decided, "No, wait a minute... maybe I should make THIS happen instead."

Then again, the target audience is kids, so we shouldn't expect Hemingway. But a nice high school level would be a welcome change.

[superhornet34]

first 2 trades of Spawn which is issues 1-33. From all the complaints about it being not well written it it actually a good read. Todd McFarlane is not a bad writer at all. McFarlans art makes you see why he was a superstar. I will end my Spawn reading with Vol. 2 as Todd is no longer the artist as of midway through that trade.

Overall, the only complaints I have are the use of Hell and creatures from Hell. Kind of makes you feel guilty reading about it like whats this guys fascination with hell? Its gets kind of annoying.

[DoctorDoom]

I had most of Spawn from about #1 to #55. The main reason I stopped getting the series at the time was financial. But thinking about it, I agree with what most have said already, the storyline didn't go anywhere. The movie bombing didn't help the property in the public's eye either.

There were way too many "Let's put Spawn in Situation X for an issue or 2, that oughtta be fun!" stories. The main story to the book for that matter was more of a situation at the time anyway. Spawn was in the alley, wanted to stay in the alley, and occassionally a Villain-of-the-Month would stop by or Cogliostro would argue with him. The biggest bloody development when I was reading the book was the grim n' gritty costume change.

Didn't know McFarlane lost the rights to Angela, Medieval Spawn AND Cogliostro. Ouch. (IIRC, Gaiman was contacted to come up with some stuff for Spawn, and he created those characters.) Cog was the cliche cryptic mentor type in the book for like ever.

Having read about what's happened since though...eh. Not my thing. You like it, more power to you.
What happened at the end? Didn't old man Cogliostro betray Spawn as soon as Al became ruler of hell?

[Killer Bee]

From what people have been telling me and from what I've read in Wikipedia, it seems like he's overpowered to the point that any plot is immediately irrelevent because of his omnipotent powers.

[Johnny_H]

From what people have been telling me and from what I've read in Wikipedia, it seems like he's overpowered to the point that any plot is immediately irrelevent because of his omnipotent powers.


Not really, he has been getting his arse kicked rather regularly in the last 10 issues or so. However you are correct he no longer has "Limited Powers" as it was when the book started.

[brahmabull]

I think people should give it a chance again the new team is sending the book in a whole new direction, just read 150-163.

[Johnny_H]

I think people should give it a chance again the new team is sending the book in a whole new direction, just read 150-163.
There is two fundimental flaws in this argument though.

1. People still see it as "Todd's book" doesnt matter how awesome Greg Capullo's work was or how good Phil Tan and David Hine are making the book now is, people still see it as "Todds comic book from the 90's"

which leads me to #2

2. Todd Mcfarlane is a HATED personality in the comic book fan circle, I personally like the dude, I think hes a eyes forward business man which I respect.

Comic book fans largely are a non forgiving bunch, so if you piss them off enough ( say spend more time on making toys for another audience, sinkin money into a bad movie ) and they will just carry a grudge.

I would think that this Armageddon run is the perfect spot to pick the book back up, and furthermore to the people who say they stopped when Mcfarlane stopped penciling, I couldn't disagree more ( to each his/her own of course ) but I really enjoy Greg Capullo's artwork its really good even in some issues better than Mcfarlanes.


issue 150 Onwards is awesome and the new one 163 is insanely cool!

[Mia]

With Spawn, it's not only what happened to the comic...it's also what happened to the readers.

They grew up.

I always thought the appeal of Spawn was due to the violence and the grossness. I used to buy it, but when the comic book shop I bought from closed in the 90's (they sold US cover and no tax) I didn't think it worth the time or money to continue buying. But I liked Todd, I thought he was a nice guy.

[Agentum]

one thing about the art i have a hard time with is the exegarated peoples, those with hands bigger than a normal person etc., they look silly to me.

And those idiotic storylines with rivaling gangs etc. useless writing.

Still the basic concept for Spawn with Al comming back as a monster unable to ever again get back what he had when he was alive is good, but not for all those years.

[Trevor Frick]

I think part of the problem with Spawn now is there is no longer a hype engine behind it. I have heard several times in this thread that the new team of Tan and Hine are great. This kind of gets my attention and makes me think I should look at the series once again ( I stopped reading the series just after #50 and collecting it around #84 or something). But back to my point, there is no one advertising for Spawn anymore other then in Previews (which most comic readers dont buy , I think) or on the Image/Todd MacFarlane websites (even then I think its more or less " that Spawn book by that popular guy from the 90's that doesn't draw or write it anymore"). No reviews of the book, NO ads in popular comic mags or websites trying to increase its readership. It's like( and again this has been said already) Todd could care less about the book and is more into his Toy line and whatever else he is working on.

Just a thought.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

New question, for those who've read this issue:

Should Spawn end on issue 163? That issue was a very good ending issue (then again, so was the Cog betrayal issue).

[Johnny_H]

Phillip Tan was saying on the Spawn forums that there is a HUGE Catch 22 to spawn 163's ending.

[BloodRedSandman]

Spawn is one of those comic that should of just wrapted every thing up at about issue 90 something. However due to the power of $$$, they continued to still pump out more and more issues.