Batman: Face the Face :blech:

[cactusmaac]

I bought this expecting it to be great. James Robinson had done Starman, the Golden Age and Blades, three of my favourite comics of all time.

But this just sucked.

He turned Batman from being one of the more interesting characters around into a pussified graduate of Dr Phil University. He's shakes hands with rookie police officers and compliments them! He makes sure to tell Robin, he's doing really, really well! He leaves Gotham in the hands of supposedly-reformed nutjob Harvey Dent! That's not Batman.

That last point was completely effing ridiculous given what happened in Knightfall.

I thought Batman bordered somewhat on jerkiness in the last couple of years but decent writers like Grant, Brubaker and Dixon too care to emphasise his compassionate, human side while depicting him as a driven, hard-edged warrior who put the FEAR in criminals. After the Poison Ivy scheme, I half-expected him to spray a Save The Whales logo over his Batsuit.

This was just too Adam West for me. The maximum Batman should be doing when it comes to praising other superheroes and Robin is an appreciative grunt. Rookie cops are simply not worthy of his notice.

Finally the main story itself was dull and generic and the reveal of the real villain was so badly done, I couldn't believe it was written by a professional scriptwriter.

[phantom1592]

I disagree on a lot of that.

I LIKE that he's no longer trying to terrify allies and partners. Batman should LOVE rookie cops. They aren't cops for the money. They haven't had time to be on the take.

These are the people who want to make a difference in Gotham. Just like Batman.

After a few years they'll be corrupt or bitter, but now... now they're full of fire and hope. Best time to get them on his side.


I whole heartedly agree about the big "reveal" though. That was crap.

[ouiyahtsiouiyah]

Yea I didn't like the rookie cop bit. Waste of time. At the end when Batman was explaining everything I thought the shark was gonna be like dumbfounded and not knowing what Bats was talking about.

Batman could have said that speach to just about anybody. And that Robin shit was annoying

[Paul Dee]

Has anything about the cop being the Guardian's grand-daughter been done yet?

[shyguy]

Oh. I'm not that into Face the Face, either, but the things you disliked about the book are the only things I actually liked about it, since it kind of got us away from Might-As-Well-Be-A-Supervillain Batman of the past ten years.

I was turned off by the gratuitous whacking of villains, the anti-climax, and the fact that it didn't at all need to be 8 issues long.

[Alan2099]

I actually liked seeing the nicer Batman. I find it much more enjoyabl to read about him. It takes me back to a simplier time when he was more recognized as a hero.

[carabas]

It takes me back to a simpler time when he was more recognised as a laughing stock.

[the film freak]

I'm just pissed they killed KGBeast. KGBeast gets no love.

[Chad]

I bought this expecting it to be great. James Robinson had done Starman, the Golden Age and Blades, three of my favourite comics of all time.

But this just sucked.

He turned Batman from being one of the more interesting characters around into a pussified graduate of Dr Phil University. He's shakes hands with rookie police officers and compliments them! He makes sure to tell Robin, he's doing really, really well! He leaves Gotham in the hands of supposedly-reformed nutjob Harvey Dent! That's not Batman.

That last point was completely effing ridiculous given what happened in Knightfall.

I thought Batman bordered somewhat on jerkiness in the last couple of years but decent writers like Grant, Brubaker and Dixon too care to emphasise his compassionate, human side while depicting him as a driven, hard-edged warrior who put the FEAR in criminals. After the Poison Ivy scheme, I half-expected him to spray a Save The Whales logo over his Batsuit.

This was just too Adam West for me. The maximum Batman should be doing when it comes to praising other superheroes and Robin is an appreciative grunt. Rookie cops are simply not worthy of his notice.

Finally the main story itself was dull and generic and the reveal of the real villain was so badly done, I couldn't believe it was written by a professional scriptwriter.


The fact that Batman had degenerated into a character so simplistic that he communicates via a series of grunts made this story essential. At some point, this attitude that if Batman ever acts realisitically human or has a thought in his head that doesn't pertain to the death of his parents, he's practically putting on a rainbow Batman costume and dancing the Batusi took over.

Having Harvey Dent act his replacement seemed to be Batman's attempt to get out of this deadlock with one of his greatest enemies. He can't kill Dent, and he can only imprison him for as long as Two-Face feels like being held up in Arkham; really rehabilitation is the only way Batman will ever deal with Two-Face successfully. It should be recognized that Batman's plan to keep Two-Face off the streets worked for a year, rather than the customary few weeks it usually takes for him to return from his last defeat.

I didn't think the story was perfect either though. The ending came out of nowhere and the deaths weren't so well done that they justify preventing any future writers from using the characters.

[Damo]

I agree and disagree with a lot of this.

In the end I thought it was a horrible story, and a rare letdown from a truly gifted writer. Um... with some great art.

(and I thought the Poison Ivy bit made for good action, although I thought Ivy wasn't writen as nearly the strong character she is.)

The interactions with the police and Robin felt a little forced... but acceptable.

The "mystery", the "surprise villain", the senseless waste of villains and the way Two Face came back... all of these fell so flat I couldn't enjoy this. It's a shame.

I'd like to see Robinson come back, with the promise to just try something simple and character driven, without "shaking up the Gotham underworld" or anything.

[rwe1138]

Although I don't like that the ending came out of nowhere, I did enjoy the story. Plus, anything that includes stuff from Dan Slott's awsome Arkham Asylum mini almost automatically gets a thumbs-up from me.

[stealthwise]

The reveal sucked, but other than that, I loved this arc. Bats as a human being again, Robin kicking ass alongside him, a return to the good old days, with Gordon and Bullock returning, setting the stage for some stories in the future, which Dini has capitalized on. A far cry from the Batdick days that prevented me from ever picking up a Battitle for nearly a decade.

[brundlefly]

FTF had its flaws, but it was such a breath of fresh air after the rampage of the two-headed monster of bad writing and mediocrity that was Winnick/Lieberman that I can easily overlook those flaws. Kicking out Black Mask, Hush, and Jason Todd and bringing back Bullock, Gordon, and Harvey Dent? That cast upgrade alone made my day. A great post-IC restart for the Bat titles and a very welcome change in direction and writing quality. The "reveal" may have come out of left-field, but that aspect of the story (who's behind the killings?) was peripheral to me compared to seeing the classic characters again and having a more accessible yet still formidable Batman. I really enjoyed the Two-Face one-shot issue and liked that his training and time as 'Gotham's protector' make him now a more physical match for Bats than he was before, so I look forward to seeing him resurface.

[jadrax]

It reset Batman to what it should be, and about time too.

[Andy S.]

I guess i liked how Robinson wrote Batman and the Bats/Robin dynamic- but most of the rest of the story bored me what with Two-Face becoming "bad" again and all. Saw that coming early on.

[carabas]

It had the same problems as the Dini run on Detective: nice characterisation for the most part, but rather inept storytelling.

[GarfieldFanatic]

It takes me back to a simpler time when he was more recognised as a laughing stock.

Beats the Might-As-Well-Be-A-Supervillain Batman. :wink:

[jgiannantoni05]

Face to Face is a lesser Batman story.

Some very significant flaws, despite its good intentions.

Made good changes (Batman being nice, bringing Gordon and Bullock back especially), but just otherwise is poorly executed.

Harvey being Gotham's guardian and Harvey's rushed weak transformation really dragged this story down.

And just boring a bit.


(Killed Wesker, which I knock it a little for)




Face to Face is very weak compared to Robinson's LOTDK Blades, which is a must read.

[Scud]

Hello late 2006 thread.

I've only read it once and can only recall certain things but I did like it.

[club33az]

I enjoyed it very much. I kind of got tired of the Batman only tolerating allies.

[phantom1592]

:eek:Face to Face is a lesser Batman story.

Some significant flaws, despite its good intentions.

Made good changes (Batman being nice, bringing Gordon and Bullock back especially), but just otherwise is poorly executed.

Harvey being Gotham's guardian and Harvey's rushed weak transformation really dragged this story down.

And just boring a bit.


(Killed Wesker, which I knock it a little for)




Face to Face is very weak compared to Robinson's LOTDK Blades, which is a must read.


I remember rushing out ot get the trade and was VERY disappointed in it... HATED Robin's One year later costume.. LOVED batman's more 'heroic' and 'good' attitude....

but the story itself was lame...

Great big mystery about wheter harvey went bad..... Drag it with the Is he/isn't he for too long...

Pull the REAL killer out of absolutely nowhere, and have the super secret surpise villain be someone I'd NEVER HEARD OF...

oh... and um..

what the heck.. Make Harvey Evil anyway...

:eek:

[EMeadow]

Still wish someone would tell the story how Gordon and Bullock got back on the force.

[carabas]

Still wish someone would tell the story how Gordon and Bullock got back on the force.I wish they'd go away again. Their replacements were far more interesting people.

[definegravity]

I disagree on a lot of that.

I LIKE that he's no longer trying to terrify allies and partners. Batman should LOVE rookie cops. They aren't cops for the money. They haven't had time to be on the take.

These are the people who want to make a difference in Gotham. Just like Batman.

After a few years they'll be corrupt or bitter, but now... now they're full of fire and hope. Best time to get them on his side.


I whole heartedly agree about the big "reveal" though. That was crap.

^ what he said

[RubberLotus]

This review (http://about-faces.livejournal.com/43785.html) sums up my feelings pretty well.

Really, for all the talk of Batman being "nicer", there's the very real possibility that he did things worse than all the previous Bat-Dicks combined.

[jgiannantoni05]

This review sums up my feelings pretty well.
Yea, it's a good review. Even though I think about_faces is too rigid sometimes in his views about Harvey.

Best part in the review:

"But what really gets me now is how Bruce has totally absolved himself of his involvement in Harvey's return to madness. Bear in mind, this wasn't even the FIRST time that Bruce left Gotham City in the hands of an inexperienced guy with serious mental health issues who actually did commit acts that led to the death of a criminal"

[Ebon]

He's shakes hands with rookie police officers and compliments them! He makes sure to tell Robin, he's doing really, really well! He leaves Gotham in the hands of supposedly-reformed nutjob Harvey Dent! That's not Batman.

Certainly it is. It might not be the version of Batman where he's the all-vengeful psychotic bat-god that made the round in the nineties, but that's all to the good. Being complimentary or acknowledging someone else's accomplishments isn't a character defect: the opposite of that is one.

[RubberLotus]

Certainly it is. It might not be the version of Batman where he's the all-vengeful psychotic bat-god that made the round in the early 2000s, but that's all to the good. Being complimentary or acknowledging someone else's accomplishments isn't a character defect: the opposite of that is one.

Fixed for accuracy.

NML aside, 90s Batman, IMO, was actually pretty tame (Bruce, I mean. Not Jean-Paul). Once NML rolled around, though...

Pre-NML, Batman's main writers were Moench, Grant, and Dixon, and none of them really favored the Bat-Dick portrayal back then.

[GarfieldFanatic]

Certainly it is. It might not be the version of Batman where he's the all-vengeful psychotic bat-god that made the round in the nineties, but that's all to the good. Being complimentary or acknowledging someone else's accomplishments isn't a character defect: the opposite of that is one.


Agreed. Batman doesn't need to be portrayed as a Bat-Dick to be Batman. I prefer a non-Bat-Dick portrayal of Batman.

[philioteria21]

Has anything about the cop being the Guardian's grand-daughter been done yet?

She moved over to the Superman books and was featured in the New Krypton storyline.

[Mat001]

Billie Harper had a relationship with Mon-El for a while and even slept with him, getting pregnant as a result. She left Metropolis with Jim Harper and returned to the southwest where he's been living.

Anyway, I did enjoy this story.