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View Full Version : Who Knows Batman is Bruce? (Very rough draft of a master list)



Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Just now, I was over on the Batman board at DC's own forums, and I ran across a thread on this topic. Several people had posted lots of different names, but nobody had tried to "organize" them. I decided it wouldn't take long for me to put them in alphabetical order and throw in a few additions of my own, as a community service. So I did. I'm sure I'm missing some people, and I may have made mistakes in the people included on this draft of the list. I welcome any constructive criticism! I only wrote this on the spur of the moment, mainly drawing upon other people's comments on the subject! Could be plenty of room for error! :)

I sorted the names alphabetically, either by a person's costumed alias or else by the first letter of the first name.

Alfred Pennyworth
Aquaman I (Orin)
Azrael (Jean Paul Valley, AKA Batman II, now dead)
Bane
Batgirl III (Cassandra Cain)
Bird
Black Lightning (Jefferson Pierce)
Booster Gold (Michael Carter)
Cain (David Cain, the assassin)
Catwoman I (Selina Kyle)
The Crime Doctor (Bradford Thorne. Learned in his first appearance in 1980. I don't know if he still knows in modern continuity)
Damian (Batman's newly discovered long-lost son)
Deacon Blackfire (knew in "The Cult" but that story was later, allegedly, erased from continuity)
Deadman (Boston Brand)
Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade Wilson)
Flash III (Wally West)
Geo-Force (Brion Markov)
Green Lantern #whatever (Hal Jordan)
Halo (Violet Harper)
Harold Allnut (dead)
Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders)
Henri Ducard (knew during "Blind Justice," but that story was allegedly erased from continuity)
Hugo Strange (kinda-sorta-sometimes thinks he knows, but -- as far as I can tell in the modern continuity -- has never actually proven it for sure. For instance, he's never captured Batman and then ripped off his cowl to reveal the face of Bruce Wayne underneath)
Hush (Tommy Elliot)
Ion (Kyle Rayner, formerly Green Lantern #whatever)
Jack Drake (dead)
Jason Todd (AKA Robin II, Nightwing, and the Red Hood)
Jeannie Bowen (in "Blind Justice," which was allegedly erased from continuity later)
Katana (Tatsu Yamashiro)
Lady Shiva (Sandra Woosan)
Leslie Thompkins
Lois Lane
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onnz)
Metamorpho (Rex Mason)
Nyssa Raatko (AKA Ra's al Ghul II. Dead)
Oracle (Barbara Gordon)
Owlman (Thomas Wayne of the Earth of the Antimatter Universe)
Plastic Man (Eel O'Brian)
The Question (Vic Sage)
Ra's al Ghul (dead)
Riddler (Edward Nigma, although those memories may be blocked at the moment, or else he's implicitly pretending they are, in Dini's current run on Detective Comics)
Robin III (Tim Drake)
Roy Kane (In "Blind Justice," but that story was allegedly erased from continuity. Anyway, he died at the end of it)
Sasha Bordeaux
Silver St. Cloud
The Spectre #whatever (Crispus Allen)
Spoiler (Stephanie Brown, AKA Robin IV, now dead)
Superboy-Prime (the Clark Kent of Earth-Prime)
Supergirl #whatever (Kara Zor-El, the Rebooted Version)
Superman (Clark Kent, Kal-El)
Talia
Trogg
Wonder Woman I (Diana)
Zombie


A few notes:

In the early 1980s, when I was reading the first Marv Wolfman/George Perez run on "The New Teen Titans," it was clear that everybody in the group knew that Robin (later Nightwing) was Dick Grayson, and that Bruce Wayne was Batman. I have heard that later, maybe around the time of Zero Hour, Denny O'Neil tried to retcon that to say that NONE of the other Titans had ever known who Batman was. Period! So I'm not clear on how many current or former Titans are supposed to know who Batman is, right now, in modern continuity. Likewise, when Tim Drake was with Young Justice, he was under strict orders not to reveal any of Batman's secrets to his new teammates.

It has never been firmly established that Jim Gordon knows. It's been hinted at a few dozen times, but he has never said (or even thought to himself), "There goes Batman, otherwise known as Bruce Wayne!"

I didn't bother listing all the people from Pre-COIE Earth-2 who would know (including the Golden Age versions of Lois and Clark, who both died in IC)

I listed Owlman from Grant Morrison's "Earth-2" -- but I don't know how many of his buddies in the Crime Syndicate of America know his secret identity. Any of them who did know could use that to deduce that Bruce Wayne is Batman in the main Earth of the DCU.

I left off Anarky because nobody's told me yet when he is supposed to have found out. If someone can steer me to the right issue, I'll add him to a future version of the list.


Message was edited by: lorendiac

Damo
11-15-2006, 04:20 PM
Notes: Azrael is presumed dead. No body. A few "honchos" might say "He's dead" in interviews, but there's nothing in the books. They were saying Jason was gone for good when they had a lot more evidence.

It's spelled DamiAn with an A.

Where did you get that The Question knows? I don't remember that at all.

Bird is dead. Went overboard in a shipwreck in Azrael, never washed ashore.

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Notes: Azrael is presumed dead. No body. A few "honchos" might say "He's dead" in interviews, but there's nothing in the books. They were saying Jason was gone for good when they had a lot more evidence.

For the purposes of this list, I'm pretty gullible. I list Azrael as dead because Denny O'Neil apparently said he was dead and showed his ghost appearing to Bruce. Likewise, I list Ra's al Ghul as dead even though I take it for granted he'll come back someday. "Dead" is their current situation, as far as we know at this exact moment! If their situations change, I'll change my comments on a future version of this list without batting an eye! :)


It's spelled DamiAn with an A.

Thanks. I've fixed it. Someone on the thread at DC's Batman board spelled it with an E and I parroted him. (I also discovered I had accidentally failed to include Alfred Pennyworth :o and went back and fixed it now.)


Where did you get that The Question knows? I don't remember that at all.

Someone on DC's Batman Board asserted that he saw this happen in Vic Sage's regular title of the late 80s/early 90s. I decided to take that at face value for the time being.


Bird is dead. Went overboard in a shipwreck in Azrael, never washed ashore.

I had a vague idea that at least one of Bane's old crew was dead by now, but I wasn't sure of any details. How certain are we that he's dead? (In Jean Paul's case, we at least had a ghost, and -- I believe -- comments from O'Neil. Those are better than nothing.)

Xanrn
11-15-2006, 04:31 PM
I am pretty sure both Wonder Girls (Donna through Dick, Cassie through Tim).

Bart/Impulse/Kid Flash/Flash through Tim.

Arsenal through Dick.

Come to think about it, alot of ex-Titans/current Titans know through knowing Dick/Tim.

Green Arrow/Oliver Green.

Superboy/Kon-El knows or rather knew.

Supernova seems to know(he was in the Batcave) but he could be on your list already.

Batman has admitted Gordan is too good of a cop not to know.

Damo
11-15-2006, 04:40 PM
Someone on DC's Batman Board asserted that he saw this happen in Vic Sage's regular title of the late 80s/early 90s. I decided to take that at face value for the time being.

Hm.

I'll have to pull out my back issues and check, but I really doubt it. My memory of that series isn't as good as I thought it was a few weeks ago (I forgot a brief bit in the first issue that explained he used to be a smoker. Crap). But from what I remember, I sincerely doubt it. I think the last time they met in that series was in Question Annual 1, and Bruce was in mask. They met in Cry for Blood... Bruce was in mask.

I don't think Vic knows. I might be forgetting something, but that seems like something I'd remember. Batman only appeared maybe 3 times in the book, and wasn't friendly.

But he did know how to contact Batman. Maybe that's what the person was remembering.

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 04:43 PM
I am pretty sure both Wonder Girls (Donna through Dick, Cassie through Tim).

Bart/Impulse/Kid Flash/Flash through Tim.

Arsenal through Dick.

Come to think about it, alot of ex-Titans/current Titans know through knowing Dick/Tim.

Green Arrow/Oliver Green.

Superboy/Kon-El knows or rather knew.

Supernova seems to know(he was in the Batcave) but he could be on your list already.

Batman has admitted Gordan is too good of a cop not to know.

Can you be a bit more specific, so that I can defend myself in the future if I put those names on the list and get challenged? I mean, can you recall a specific story in which we saw Kon-El hanging out at the Batcave, absolutely positively knowing that Bruce was Batman, for instance? (Same applies to the first and second Wonder Girls, etc. As I mentioned in my notes at the bottom of that post, back around the early 1980s all the regular Titans of that era knew perfectly well that Bruce was Batman, but that got retconned by Denny O'Neil later, or so I've heard.)

I remember Bruce in "Hush" reflecting that Perry White ought to be sharp enough to know Clark's secrets by now, and then he draws a comparison in his own mind to Gordon, but that isn't quite the same thing as Bruce thinking, "I'm absolutely certain that Jim Gordon KNOWS I am Batman!" It just strikes me as being another one of those dozens of "hints" that I referred to.

I didn't know about Supernova knowing, because I haven't been reading 52. Thanks for telling me! I'll add him to the next draft of the list. (Not right away, though -- I figure I'd better let this sit overnight before I try to do any more editing.)

Effect
11-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Powergirl should now know (post IC), especially since she has her Earth-2 memories back. She would know through Huntress (Earth-2) most likely since she was her best friend and Huntress was the daughter of Batman(E2) and Catwoman(E2). Also she was good friends with Robin(E2) as well.

Joe Acro
11-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Perhaps this thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=55312) will help.

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Hm.

I'll have to pull out my back issues and check, but I really doubt it. My memory of that series isn't as good as I thought it was a few weeks ago (I forgot a brief bit in the first issue that explained he used to be a smoker. Crap). But from what I remember, I sincerely doubt it. I think the last time they met in that series was in Question Annual 1, and Bruce was in mask. They met in Cry for Blood... Bruce was in mask.

I don't think Vic knows. I might be forgetting something, but that seems like something I'd remember. Batman only appeared maybe 3 times in the book, and wasn't friendly.

But he did know how to contact Batman. Maybe that's what the person was remembering.

I think I've only got the first 8 or 9 issues or so of the old "Question" series. He meets Batman at least once, early on, without knowing who he is, but for all I knew it could have happened a couple of years later, in back issues I don't have. If this info turns out to be wrong, I'll blame it all on the guy who swore he saw it happen, and then I'll delete the name from my list.

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 04:48 PM
Perhaps this thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=55312) will help.

Actually, I already looked at that one tonight. After I saw the list forming over on the DC Batman Board, I ran a search over here too, found that old thread, and went down through it as I added more names to the "master list" before I posted it anywhere :)

Damo
11-15-2006, 04:50 PM
I had a vague idea that at least one of Bane's old crew was dead by now, but I wasn't sure of any details. How certain are we that he's dead? (In Jean Paul's case, we at least had a ghost, and -- I believe -- comments from O'Neil. Those are better than nothing.)


Preeeeeetty dang sure. He was already suffering from Venom withdrawl (Bane forced it on him as part of a plan) and incredibly weak as a result. The ship hit a storm, broke up, and Azrael, Nomoz, and Bane barely made it to shore.

Nomoz (Azrael's Dwarfling sometimes companion) knows. He studied with Alfred for a while in fact, and briefly tried to have a posh accent.

LeHah/Biis the Rogue member of the Order of St. Dumas that killed Jeal-Paul's father... he knows. And he was alive in the final issue of Azrael. Jerk.

Nintendite
11-15-2006, 06:22 PM
Not sure how up-to-date it is, but there's a lit of Secret ID's and those who know them over at "Cosmic Team's: JLA page under the FAQ.

Link is here: http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/jla/index.html

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 06:33 PM
Not sure how up-to-date it is, but there's a lit of Secret ID's and those who know them over at "Cosmic Team's: JLA page under the FAQ.

Link is here: http://www.mykey3000.com/cosmicteams/jla/index.html

Very useful! I was planning to edit this tomorrow; with all the material included over there, it may take me an extra day or two! :)

Kaos
11-15-2006, 06:48 PM
Can you be a bit more specific, so that I can defend myself in the future if I put those names on the list and get challenged? I mean, can you recall a specific story in which we saw Kon-El hanging out at the Batcave, absolutely positively knowing that Bruce was Batman, for instance?

Kon was like Superman's Robin, Superman told him all dem tings. Plus when Raven showed Superman and Batman talking about him, to him...I think Clark called Batman Bruce.

malephoenix
11-15-2006, 07:11 PM
Well, I've known since I was about nine, I think.

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Kon was like Superman's Robin, Superman told him all dem tings. Plus when Raven showed Superman and Batman talking about him, to him...I think Clark called Batman Bruce.

I have Superman stories from around 2000 or thereabouts in which Superman still hadn't even admitted to Kon that he was Clark Kent. But Kon had a pretty good idea, apparently because he had learned (in a story I haven't read) that an alternate-timeline-Superman was, in fact, Clark Kent, which was what you might call a big clue. :) It was creating friction between them. At that point, Kon had been around for about seven years (our time -- since 1993), so I didn't get the feeling that Superman was sharing every secret he knew with the kid, such as Batman's identity.

When was this thing with Raven showing Superboy what Superman and Batman were saying about him behind his back?

Lorendiac
11-15-2006, 07:35 PM
Well, I've known since I was about nine, I think.

A likely story. How could a nine-year-old kid possibly uncover such a deep, dark secret as Batman's identity? I bet you're just making that up to impress us. :rolleyes:

(Besides, I've known since I was a lot younger than nine. Not that I'm childishly trying to impress people, or anything, of course . . . I'm far too mature for that! :p )

Rylon
11-15-2006, 11:50 PM
Check Batman #476, I'm pretty sure that Batman told Viki Vale, of all people, his secret ID.

kidpernicious
11-16-2006, 12:57 AM
Notes: Azrael is presumed dead. No body. A few "honchos" might say "He's dead" in interviews, but there's nothing in the books. They were saying Jason was gone for good when they had a lot more evidence.

It's spelled DamiAn with an A.

Where did you get that The Question knows? I don't remember that at all.

Bird is dead. Went overboard in a shipwreck in Azrael, never washed ashore.
I like how you insist on Azrael only being presumed dead, mentioning the lack of a body, but within a few lines completely ignore that rationale in declaring Bird dead. Lapses in logic are fun. Not that Bird is near and dear to anybody's heart I'm sure, just thought it was funny.

Damo
11-16-2006, 01:26 AM
I like how you insist on Azrael only being presumed dead, mentioning the lack of a body, but within a few lines completely ignore that rationale in declaring Bird dead. Lapses in logic are fun. Not that Bird is near and dear to anybody's heart I'm sure, just thought it was funny.

Well, no, I disagree. Azrael got shot several times and then fell off a tall building... and then all people could find where there should have been a body was his costume.

Bird was lost at sea in no state to swim.

In Bird's case the lack of a body is kinda to be expected.

In Azrael's case it's kinda a "WTF? His costume was down on the street where you'd expect a body, but not him? What, did he go off to die from his wounds naked? Did the rapture happen, and he was the only one invited? Did Skeets disintigrate him in midair?"

In Bird's case it seems really unlikely he could have survived if he didn't show up on the shore with the others. In Azrael's case... uh... yeah, that's just weird.

Gaspard
11-16-2006, 01:40 AM
Wow. That's a whole lot of names.

kidpernicious
11-16-2006, 01:45 AM
Well, no, I disagree. Azrael got shot several times and then fell off a tall building... and then all people could find where there should have been a body was his costume.

Bird was lost at sea in no state to swim.

In Bird's case the lack of a body is kinda to be expected.

In Azrael's case it's kinda a "WTF? His costume was down on the street where you'd expect a body, but not him? What, did he go off to die from his wounds naked? Did the rapture happen, and he was the only one invited? Did Skeets disintigrate him in midair?"

In Bird's case it seems really unlikely he could have survived if he didn't show up on the shore with the others. In Azrael's case... uh... yeah, that's just weird.
That's fine. It's still pretty apparent you're not bothering to keep the same window open for one character that you're demanding be kept open for another. Sure there's all the strangeness with Azrael, but look at it this way. Two different cases where someone potentially died, no bodies. One was in a poor physical state and was lost at sea, one was shot several times and then fell off a tall building. Regardless of the suit thing (and also, more importantly, regardless of comic book death retcons and all that), anyone favoring the guy who got shot and dropped off a building surviving over the guy that was lost at sea is kinda gonna come off a little odd.

Bottomline it was really just funny to see. No offense meant, don't really have much more to say about it.

boolean
11-16-2006, 01:56 AM
I noticed two significant omissions from your list:

1. Nightwing. As you point out in your first note, Dick Grayson knows Bruce's secret.

2. Bruce Wayne. Sure, it's redundant to point out that Batman knows his own secret identity, but he should be included for the sake of completeness. :P

Kara Zor El
11-16-2006, 02:35 AM
Vicky Vale definitely knows. She finished with Bruce as a result. He took off his mask in front of her while she lkay in a hospital bed. I don't think she has been in continuity since, and that was early 90's I think. Probably 90 or 91.

elias_A
11-16-2006, 04:51 AM
Spoiler did NOT know, and never learned Bruce is Batman.

elias_A
11-16-2006, 05:03 AM
I am pretty sure both Wonder Girls (Donna through Dick, Cassie through Tim).

Bart/Impulse/Kid Flash/Flash through Tim.

Arsenal through Dick.

Come to think about it, alot of ex-Titans/current Titans know through knowing Dick/Tim.

Green Arrow/Oliver Green.

Superboy/Kon-El knows or rather knew.

Supernova seems to know(he was in the Batcave) but he could be on your list already.

Batman has admitted Gordan is too good of a cop not to know.


In Teen Titans it was shown Superboy had to find out himself Robin's secret ID, so I doubt Tim then told him Bruce's. Unless you imply "everyone who nows Robin=Tim can figure out Batman=Bruce"; I think Devin Grayson had Nightwing say something like this in GK, even before Tim was adopted (or was it the other way around, if Bruce admitted he was Batman, everyone could guess Robin's and Nightwing's ID? I don't remember).

Kid Kyoto
11-16-2006, 05:35 AM
Good thread. And yeah, I think we can add the population of Earth Prime to this list. :)

I think Flash II should also be on the list. Does that cover all of the JLA founders?

Did Hawkman ever know?

What about the JSA?

Most of the 80s New Teen Titians should know, there was a whole plot point that they could not tell Terra their IDs since they would be giving away the JLAs as well.

aukevin
11-16-2006, 06:16 AM
Wow. That's a whole lot of names.
That's what I was thinking.

malephoenix
11-16-2006, 07:46 AM
A likely story. How could a nine-year-old kid possibly uncover such a deep, dark secret as Batman's identity? I bet you're just making that up to impress us. :rolleyes:

(Besides, I've known since I was a lot younger than nine. Not that I'm childishly trying to impress people, or anything, of course . . . I'm far too mature for that! :p )

Well, my overprotective mom thought that Batman was scary. (She didn't want me to watch Ninja Turtles b/c of how "gross" some of the characters were and the emphasis on fighting.) I had to get superhero hook-ups from the kids at school, and that started around nine or so. *sigh*

Kaos
11-16-2006, 07:53 AM
When was this thing with Raven showing Superboy what Superman and Batman were saying about him behind his back?

Teen Titans, it's after he went all crazy an shaved his head, then confined himself to the Kent farm.

Fenix
11-16-2006, 09:07 AM
Who doesn´t ? :p

Lorendiac
11-16-2006, 03:04 PM
Good thread. And yeah, I think we can add the population of Earth Prime to this list. :)

I think Flash II should also be on the list. Does that cover all of the JLA founders?

Back in the old JLA comics, around the 70s and early 80s, pretty much everybody in the JLA knew everybody else's real names. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow, Zatanna, Hawkman, etc.

But then there were later retcons that tore a bunch of that old JLA continuity to shreds, Post-Crisis and again Post-Zero Hour. Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman had not been founding members of the Silver Age JLA, for instance. Post-Zero Hour, Denny O'Neil tried to insist on a retcon that Batman had never, ever been a regular member of any version of the Justice League, no matter what. He didn't quite get away with that one. But he did get away with other stuff -- such as that Batman was an "urban legend" who had never been captured on videotape or in a TV broadcast to "prove" he really existed.

So I'm not absolutely sure if, in the Post-Zero Hour DCU, Barry Allen and Batman were ever on the same team for long enough to become really buddy-buddy and start sharing secret identities. If someone can show me a Post-Zero Hour story that clearly states that Barry knew Batman's real name was Bruce, I'll add Barry to the list. There may very well be such a story! But I want to make sure before I commit myself! :)


Did Hawkman ever know?

After I wrote this rough draft in a hurry last night, initially just as a spur-of-the-moment response to an existing thread on DC's own boards, I went home and reread my "JLA: Crisis of Conscience" TPB. In it, various people either a) call Batman "Bruce," or B) are standing right next to someone else who does, and don't seem surprised to hear him called by that name. By the end of the story, there's a fight raging through the Batcave and Wayne Manor above. Hawkman was right in the thick of things (along with several other characters, good and bad, whom I'm adding to the Second Draft of my list).

I plan to post the 2nd Draft later tonight, in this same thread! Dozens of new names on it! And some extra details about how we know that so-and-so found out, once upon a time! : )


What about the JSA?

I don't know. Toward the end of IC, I remember that some of the heroes "orignally" from Earth-2 were remembering some things about what Earth-2 continuity was like in the old Multiverse days. Thinking they recognized the Golden Age Superman, for instance. Did any of them suddenly also remember knowing the Golden Age Batman way back around the 1940s and 1950s, and even knowing his secret ID was Bruce Wayne? Beats me!


Most of the 80s New Teen Titians should know, there was a whole plot point that they could not tell Terra their IDs since they would be giving away the JLAs as well.

Oh, I agree with you 100 percent that in the Titans comics of the 1980s, if you go back and read the dialogue between Dick and his buddies, then it's obvious that in those days his fellow Titans (Kori, Gar, Donna, etc.) knew perfectly well that whenever he mentioned "Bruce" or "Batman" he was talking about the same guy; his mentor. But that was in the 1980s. That was one of the things that -- as I've heard it -- Denny O'Neil managed to successfully retcon away in the Post-Zero Hour DCU, because he hated the idea that so many people outside of the Batman books (which he ruled over in the 1990s) knew Batman's secret ID, so all of a sudden they magically didn't know after all!

The story I've heard is that O'Neil insisted that the New and Improved Version, from the mid-90s forward, was that back when Dick and the others were Teen Titans, Dick was under strict orders from Bruce to tell them that Bruce Wayne was just his legal guardian, who allowed him to be Batman's sidekick and probably financed their operations . . . but Batman was a totally different guy than Bruce!

Lorendiac
11-16-2006, 03:09 PM
Check Batman #476, I'm pretty sure that Batman told Viki Vale, of all people, his secret ID.

You made me curious, so I ran a quick Google search for "Batman #476" and "Vicki Vale" and here's one of the first things I came up with:

The summary at http://dcuguide.com/Bm/Bm_476.php says he seriously considered telling her, but then lost his nerve and decided it would be too dangerous for her.

Lorendiac
11-16-2006, 03:14 PM
Powergirl should now know (post IC), especially since she has her Earth-2 memories back. She would know through Huntress (Earth-2) most likely since she was her best friend and Huntress was the daughter of Batman(E2) and Catwoman(E2). Also she was good friends with Robin(E2) as well.

You raise an excellent point about Power Girl! Logically, if she now has back all her Earth-2, Pre-COIE memories, then she ought to know all about Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson and so forth. But DC does so much retconning that I'm not comfortable with putting her on the list until I see a modern story that makes it absolutely clear that she does, in fact, know now that "Batman = Bruce Wayne."

Kid Kyoto
11-16-2006, 03:16 PM
Since there will be discrepencies in any shared universe you probably need levels of knowing.

Definite People who have been shown as knowing recently and will probably continue to know come what may: Superman, Alfred, Dick etc
Once Knew and may still People who knew in past continuities and until they say on camera otherwise still know: Starfire, Zatana
Once knew and no longer do People where it has been said unquivicably they no longer know: Riddler?
Hinted at knowing people who 'should know' but have never said so publically: Commissioner Gordon, Amanda Waller? Lex Luthor?

Lorendiac
11-16-2006, 03:30 PM
Spoiler did NOT know, and never learned Bruce is Batman.

I had the impression that she was hanging out in the Batcave all the time after she became Robin IV, and I even thought she was acquainted with Alfred Pennyworth. (But I admit I've only read the "War Drums" TPB once, and my memory for something I read just once, months ago, is definitely not perfect on every detail.)

Anyone else remember if Stephanie, in her days as Robin, knew how to get in and out of the Batcave under Wayne Manor, knew Alfred face-to-face as Batman's/Bruce's butler, etc.?

Lorendiac
11-16-2006, 04:09 PM
Okay, folks! The new-and-improved Second Draft is not as rough as the first one was, but it's already gotten too long to be inserted at the top of this thread as new text to replace the old text in the Editing Mode. So I'm posting it here, as a pair of replies.

By the way, thanks to everyone who's helped me improve it, and please keep telling me where you think I've missed something! :)

Aaron Langstrom (Son of Man-Bat. His knowledge of the secret was established in “Gotham Knights #45”)
Alexander Luthor (Dead. Apparently learned during the long period when he had nothing better to do in the “paradise dimension” than play peeping tom, watching events in the Post-Crisis DCU)
Alfred Pennyworth (Different versions have been told of how he learned, but either he was already working for Bruce when the Batman identity was created, or else he was hired later and quickly found out)
The Appelaxians (Were able to find and invade the Batcave and capture Batman in “JLA: Year One” based on information gleaned from the Martian Manhunter’s secret files. Of course, I don’t know if the general plot of “JLA: Year One” is still in continuity in the Post-IC DCU. The roster of founding members of the JLA has retroactively been changed again, after all)
The Atom II (Ray Palmer. His ex-wife Jean Loring definitely knew in “Identity Crisis #7” that Bruce is Batman; presumably she heard it from him – I’ll go back and reread IC later to double-check on how much Ray appeared to know)
Azrael (Jean Paul Valley. Learned during the “Sword of Azrael” miniseries)
Bane (Figured it out very quickly in “Knightfall” after looking at Bruce Wayne’s body language)
Batgirl III (Cassandra Cain. Learned when, for the first time, she saw Batman in his role as Bruce Wayne during the “Bruce Wayne: Murderer?” event. She recognized his body language instantly)
Benedict Asp (Learned in “Legends of the Dark Knight #61.” Then he died)
Bird (Now believed dead. Bane told him in “Knightfall”)
Black Canary II (Dinah Lance. Her current knowledge was recently confirmed in the “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” story arc, although a few years earlier, in “Bruce Wayne: Murderer?” she clearly didn’t know Bruce was Batman)
Black Lightning (Jefferson Pierce. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13.” Still knew in a comic published in 1996, so I’m figuring that the other Outsiders from #13 still know as well, despite the other retcons of COIE and Zero Hour and so forth)
Blue Beetle II (Ted Kord. Dead. I think he learned in “Countdown to Infinite Crisis” and then promptly got himself killed)
Booster Gold I (Michael Carter. Dead)
Cain (David Cain. Not sure just when he realized)
Carleton LeHah (Learned during the “Sword of Azrael” miniseries)
Catwoman I (Selina Kyle. Bruce voluntarily told her during “Hush” – we don’t know for sure if she already knew or suspected; we can fill in the blanks any way we please!)
Chronos I (David Clinton. Found out the secret IDs of Batman and several other JLAers a long time ago, according to an “Identity Crisis” retcon. Then got mindwiped by Zatanna. Then Despero recently helped him rediscover those memories in “JLA: Crisis of Conscience.” Then they got wiped out (or suppressed, or whatever) by Zatanna all over again . . . until further notice?)
The Crime Doctor (Bradford Thorne. Dead. Learned in his first appearance, in “Detective Comics #494.” One issue later, he went into a coma from mercury poisoning. Years later, he recovered. Since that time, I gather that no Post-Crisis story has ever clearly told us that he did – or didn’t – remember Batman’s identity after he awoke.)
Damian (Batman’s newly-introduced long-lost son. Presumably he has known all his life, thanks to his mommy, Talia.)
Deacon Blackfire (Dead. Learned during the miniseries “The Cult.” That mini has reportedly been erased from continuity, however.)
Deadman (Boston Brand. Since he is normally an invisible and intangible ghost who can go anywhere and spy on anyone, it would be very easy for him to learn any secret identity if he got interested enough to bother, and he demonstrated his knowledge of where to find the Batcave (right under Wayne Manor, natch!) in “Batman #530”)
Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade Wilson. Probably learned from Terra I around the time of “The Judas Contract.” Or, even if Terra only knew Dick Grayson’s real name after she became a trusted member of the Titans, which is the interpretation that Denny O’Neil later preferred from the mid-90s onward regarding how much Dick ever shared with his fellow Titans about the Batman Family’s secrets, that would be still enough of a lead for a smart guy like Slade to figure out the rest of it himself, later)
Deathwing (Comes from an alternate future timeline, now defunct, in which he had been brainwashed by the Time Trapper so he could pass himself off as Dick Grayson, the Nightwing of “ten years from now.” Evidently he was well-briefed on all Titans lore and Dick Grayson’s biography in particular, including the role of Bruce Wayne/Batman in his life, in order to carry the role with conviction)
Despero (Restored various suppressed memories to the Secret Society of Super-Villains in the “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” story arc . . . and as it turned out, those memories included the knowledge that Batman is Bruce Wayne (not to mention several other JLA secret IDs). In the process, Despero apparently learned this secret himself (if he didn’t already know? He is a telepath, after all). At the end of the arc, he was subdued by Zatanna’s magic and allegedly was going to be taken off to Oa for containment, but – as far as I can tell – he still had all that knowledge of secret IDs inside his head. The other villains whom he had helped to regain these memories included: Chronos, Felix Faust, Floronic Man, Matter Master, Star Sapphire, The Wizard)
Doc Creasey (Dead. Bought the secret of Batman’s identity from “The Nobody” in “Shadow of the Bat #13.” One of Joker’s henchmen killed Creasey before he could make any use of his new knowledge)
The Elongated Man (Ralph Dibny. His knowledge was recently confirmed in the “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” arc)
Faith (According to recent issues of “JLA Classified”)
Felix Faust (Found out the secret IDs of Batman and several other JLAers a long time ago, according to an “Identity Crisis” retcon. Then got mindwiped by Zatanna. Then Despero recently helped him rediscover those memories in “JLA: Crisis of Conscience.” Then they got wiped out (or suppressed, or whatever) by Zatanna all over again . . . until further notice?)
Flash III (Wally West)
The Floronic Man (Jason Woodrue. Found out the secret IDs of Batman and several other JLAers a long time ago, according to an “Identity Crisis” retcon. Then got mindwiped by Zatanna. Then Despero recently helped him rediscover those memories in “JLA: Crisis of Conscience.” Then they got wiped out (or suppressed, or whatever) by Zatanna all over again . . . until further notice?)
Fritz (A thug who worked for Benedict Asp. Learned in “Legends of the Dark Knight #61.” Then he died)
Geo-Force (Brion Markov. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)
Green Arrow I (Oliver Queen. Already knew by the time of a conversation with Batman in “Green Arrow #5” (the third series of that name). I’m told that it is far from clear just when and how he found out in the modern continuity, however)
Green Lantern #whatever (Hal Jordan, formerly known as Parallax, and later as The Spectre II. His knowledge was confirmed during the recent “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” story arc)
Halo (Violet Hunter. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)
Harbinger (Lyla, the former assistant to the Monitor. Had access to information about everyone interesting)
Harold Allnut (Dead. Presumably found out shortly after Batman met him and took him home to the Batcave in “Batman #458.”)
Hawkman (Carter Hall. His knowledge was recently confirmed in the “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” arc)
Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders)
Henri Ducard (One of Bruce’s old teachers; he deduced the secret in the “Blind Justice” story arc, which has allegedly been erased from continuity, which would certainly explain why I don’t remember ever seeing Ducard make any use of this knowledge in any subsequent appearances in other comics)
Hourman III, from the 853rd Century (Tyler. Dead. The secret was also known to a bunch of his friends from the Justice Legion who appeared in the “DC One Million” event, because the identities of modern-era heroes are all available in public records in the 853rd century)
Hugo Strange (kinda-sorta-sometimes thinks he knows, but -- as far as I can tell in the modern continuity -- has never actually proven it for sure. For instance, he's never captured Batman and then ripped off his cowl to reveal the face of Bruce Wayne underneath)
Hush (Thomas “Tommy” Elliot. We learned at the end of “Hush” that he had learned it from Riddler in a conversation we never saw, before that story arc even started)
Ion (Kyle Rayner, formerly Green Lantern #whatever. Learned in “JLA #50.”)
Jack Drake (Dead)
Jason Todd (Formerly Robin II, later The Red Hood II. More recently Nightwing #whatever -- I’m not sure if he still uses that name today, and I’ve lost track of what the numbering would be, given that Power Girl and Cheyenne Freemont have also been using that name in OYL stories)
Jean Loring (Refers to Batman as “Bruce” in “Identity Crisis #7”)
Jeannie Bowen (In the “Blind Justice” story arc, which has allegedly been erased from continuity)

Lorendiac
11-16-2006, 04:10 PM
Katana (Tatsu Yamashiro. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)
Kathy Sutton (Wife of Red Tornado II. Demonstrates her knowledge in “Justice League of America #1” (the newest series; the one that just started a couple of months ago)
Lady Shiva (Nightwing commented that she was on the list of enemies who definitely knew, in a conversation he had with Robin III (Tim) in “Gotham Knights #8.” I don’t think we know just when or how she found out)
Leslie Thompkins (In the current continuity, an old friend of the family who found out soon after Bruce invented his new identity.)
Lois Lane (Probably learned from her husband Clark, but I’m not sure just when)
Man-Bat (Kirk Langstrom. His knowledge was established in “Gotham Knights #45”)
Martian Manhunter (J’onn J’onnz. May have learned by telepathic prying in “JLA: Year One” if that is still in continuity)
Matches Malone (Dead. But he had somehow figured it out before he died, according to a letter column in “Detective Comics #765”)
Maxwell Lord (Dead. Apparently learned the secret from Brother Eye, or perhaps by telepathic prying?)
Metamorpho (Rex Mason. Learned in “Batman and the Outsiders #13”)
Neron (Can see anywhere. Visited the Batcave in “Underworld Unleashed #2”)
Nightwing I (Dick Grayson, formerly Robin I and Batman III)
"The Nobody" (Dead. A convenient label for a homeless man, real name unknown, who learned Batman’s identity and then was killed by the man he sold it to (Doc Creasey), in “Shadow of the Bat #13”)
Nomoz (Learned during the “Sword of Azrael” miniseries)
Nyssa Raatko (AKA Ra’s al Ghul II. Dead. Demonstrated her knowledge of Bruce’s secret in the “Death and the Maidens” miniseries. I don’t recall that we ever learned how she knew)
Oracle (Barbara Gordon, the former Batgirl I. She’s known for a long, long time, but I’m not certain exactly when and how she found out. I don’t know if there’s ever been a Post-Crisis flashback story that gave us the current “official details.” In Pre-Crisis Earth-1 continuity, Bruce told her voluntarily in the 70s, then her knowledge later got mindwiped in an incredibly bad story, then in “Detective Comics #526” Gerry Conway delicately retconned that by simply having Babs Gordon (still Batgirl I at the time) casually tell Dick that she had deduced their secret identities months earlier – but, when she realized how uptight they were about their privacy, she tactfully permitted them to think they had managed to throw her off the scent. As far as I know, Conway’s version can still be considered valid in the Post-Crisis DCU, unless a newer story has explicitly rewritten the details of how Babs found out? If you know of such a story, tell me!)
Owlman (Thomas Wayne, member of the Crime Syndicate of America, on the Earth in the Antimatter Universe. Introduced in Grant Morrison’s “JLA: Earth-2.” Once he visited the regular DCU Earth, it was a foregone conclusion that he’d figure it out. Since he is effectively Batman’s “evil twin” from a parallel universe, as soon as he became aware of Batman’s existence he couldn’t help knowing that Batman must be a member of the filthy rich Wayne family of Gotham City, which would narrow the field down to one possible suspect, right?)
The Phantom Stranger (He seems virtually omniscient. In “Batman/Phantom Stranger” he dropped in on Bruce Wayne and his conversation made it clear he knew)
Plastic Man (Eel O’Brian. Learned in “JLA #50”)
Ra's al Ghul (Dead. Already knew the secret, from behind-the-scenes detective work, when he made his debut way back when in “Batman #232.” At least some of his Ubus and other hirelings have also known, when it suited his purpose to let them know)
Red Tornado II (Not sure when he learned in modern continuity, but probably before “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” when Batman is working to repair him in the Batcave)
Riddler (Edward Nigma. At the very end of “Hush,” revealed that he had already figured it all out, behind the scenes, before “Hush” ever started. Now, however, he appears to have totally forgotten – or else is pretending he forgot – in Dini’s current run on “Detective Comics.”)
Robin III (Tim Drake. Revealed that he had already known for several years before he ever got around to mentioning his knowledge to Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne during the story arc “A Lonely Place of Dying” in 1989)
Roy Kane (Dead. Learned and died in the “Blind Justice” story arc, which has allegedly been erased from continuity)
Ruby (Apparently her real first name. Dead. A female criminal who broke into the Batcave in “Batman #577” and learned Batman’s secret identity and then conveniently died by the end of the issue, as did her accomplices, “Ruby’s Brother” and “Sneaky Pete.”)
Ruby's Brother (Dead. We never knew his real name. See entry for “Ruby”)
Sasha Bordeaux (Learned in “Detective Comics #756” when she found one of Bruce’s costumes)
Sentinel (Alan Scott, formerly the Golden Age Green Lantern. Showed that he knew in “Detective Comics #784”)
Sherlock Holmes (Showed that he had deduced it independently in “Detective Comics #572.” As far as I know, there’s no reason to think that’s been retconned)
Shondra Kinsolving (Learned in “Legends of the Dark Knight #61.” Then she regressed to early childhood, mentally, and was placed in a sanitarium. In “Hush” there was a brief reference to the vague idea that eventually “she got better.” She may or may not remember anything about Batman’s secrets now; who knows?)
Silver St. Cloud (Learned during the Steve Englehart/Marshall Rogers run on “Detective Comics” that is reprinted in the TPB “Batman: Strange Apparitions”)
Sneaky Pete (Dead. See entry for “Ruby”)
The Spectre I (Jim Corrigan. Dead and gone, now. Visited the Batcave in “Batman #541.”)
The Spectre III (Crispus Allen. Apparently learned in #1 of his own series)
Spoiler (Stephanie Brown, AKA Robin IV just before she died. I think she would have learned Batman’s identity when she became the new Robin, or possibly sooner?)
Star Sapphire IV (Deborah Camille Darnell. Dead. Found out the secret IDs of Batman and several other JLAers a long time ago, according to an “Identity Crisis” retcon. Then got mindwiped by Zatanna. Then Despero recently helped her rediscover those memories in “JLA: Crisis of Conscience.” Then they got wiped out (or suppressed, or whatever) by Zatanna all over again . . . until further notice?)
Superboy-Prime (Clark Kent of Earth-Prime, which is supposed to be “our Earth.” Presumably he knew from a very early age, thanks to comic books, TV shows, etc.)
Supergirl #whatever (Kara Zor-El, the Rebooted Version)
Superman (Clark Kent, Kal-El)
The Synaptic Kid (Only appeared in “Detective Comics #633.” Learned Batman’s identity telepathically, then – after a very confusing story – apparently ended up in a comatose condition with a mental breakdown, as a result of the shocking experience of messing around inside the complexities of Batman’s head without an invitation to be there. Let this be a lesson to us all . . .)
Talia
Trogg (Bane told him in “Knightfall”)
Tsunetomo (Dead. One of Bruce Wayne’s martial arts teachers. Recognized Batman’s fighting style in “Detective Comics Annual #3”)
Waverider (Learned all sorts of secrets, including Batman’s identity, when he was examining the possible futures of different heroes during the “Armageddon 2001” event in 1991)
White Martians (According to a statement made in the “JLA: New World Order” story arc, there are 78 of them. In the “JLA: Terror Incognita” story arc, it became clear that with their telepathy and all that, they definitely knew Batman’s secret identity, among others)
The Wizard (William I. Zard. Found out the secret IDs of Batman and several other JLAers a long time ago, according to an “Identity Crisis” retcon. Then got mindwiped by Zatanna. Then Despero recently helped him rediscover those memories in “JLA: Crisis of Conscience.” Then they got wiped out (or suppressed, or whatever) by Zatanna all over again . . . until further notice?)
Wonder Woman I (Diana. Apparently it is not crystal-clear just when she learned)
Zatanna (Zatanna Zatara. Her knowledge of his identity was recently confirmed during the “JLA: Crisis of Conscience” story arc when she visited the Batcave and called him “Bruce” while trying to apologize for mindwiping him many years ago (as previously revealed in a retcon flashback in “Identity Crisis”). She offered to do anything she possibly could to make it up to him, and Batman listened to her speech and then simply told her to leave. (Considering that he didn’t hit her, file criminal charges or a civil lawsuit against her, scream obscenities at her, or suggest she go mindwipe herself and her former co-conspirators to balance the scales by removing their memories of his secrets this time around, I thought he handled it rather well.))
Zombie (Bane told him in “Knightfall”)

Kid Kyoto
11-16-2006, 06:49 PM
Great job, I would still include the Wolfman Teen Titans though, especially if you're including Deathstroke and Terra in there. Until we hear one or more of them say 'I have no idea who Batman is' I think it's ambiguous at the very least.

Damo
11-16-2006, 07:50 PM
As for Spoiler, Batman told her Tim's Secret I.D.. Now, she's no Ralph Dibney, but give the girl some credit.

elias_A
11-17-2006, 01:45 AM
As for Spoiler, Batman told her Tim's Secret I.D.. Now, she's no Ralph Dibney, but give the girl some credit.

It was a point in Fugitive that Stephanie was locked out of the cave (at the entrance for the Batmobile) and did not know another way in (for example, Wayne manor),
and she wondered "why is everyone (that means, the Bat-family) so concerned about this Bruce Wayne case?" - and that was AFTER Batman told her Tim's ID, so she definitly did not know then.

Yes, she met Alfred in the Cave, and as Tim's servant I think when he had temporarily left Bruce (I have not read this Robin issues), but I think she did not know Alfred was also Bruce Wayne's servant (why should she? Alfred is no VIP in Gotham).

In Gotham Knights, when she was pleading to be trained by Batman again (and he refused coldly), she had to track him down as Batman to speak to him, obviously not knowing where to find him at daytime.

During her time as Robin, she was never shown inside the manor.
Also, Batman told her she was only on probation and would not be told the BIG secrets - I assumed he was talking about his ID then.

During war games we learned she did not know Batman is also Matches Malone - true, this has nothing to do with his true ID, but shows he did not trust her very much and told her few secrets.

To summarise - first it was definitly stated she did not know, so you would expect the reveal to be shown "on-screen", which never happened.
Your argument that she should have figured it out herself - well, I am a Spoiler fan, but I have to admit she was never portrayed as very bright - for example, in Robin she was pretty sure to have figured out Robin's ID, but suspected the wrong guy.

Also, figuring out secret identities can be hard or easy in the DCU, depending on the writer's whim- Ras and Tim deduced Bruce's ID easily, other's did not suceed, so we should only accept a definite confirmation, what we did not get for Spoiler.

elias_A
11-17-2006, 02:20 AM
Oracle (Barbara Gordon, the former Batgirl I. She’s known for a long, long time, but I’m not certain exactly when and how she found out. I don’t know if there’s ever been a Post-Crisis flashback story that gave us the current “official details.” In Pre-Crisis Earth-1 continuity, Bruce told her voluntarily in the 70s, then her knowledge later got mindwiped in an incredibly bad story, then in “Detective Comics #526” Gerry Conway delicately retconned that by simply having Babs Gordon (still Batgirl I at the time) casually tell Dick that she had deduced their secret identities months earlier – but, when she realized how uptight they were about their privacy, she tactfully permitted them to think they had managed to throw her off the scent. As far as I know, Conway’s version can still be considered valid in the Post-Crisis DCU, unless a newer story has explicitly rewritten the details of how Babs found out? If you know of such a story, tell me!)

In "Batgirl:Year one", by Dixon and Beatty, it was shown Batman told her after he decided she was "worthy" - he let her swear an oath at his parents grave;
and she is thinking something that proves she did not know before, if I remember correctly.

OverMaster
11-17-2006, 04:26 AM
The Joker, IIRC, knew it during the Emperor Joker storyline, along with Superman's secret identity. It's unclear if he has forgotten that since then or not.

OverMaster
11-17-2006, 04:38 AM
Also, there was this woman, a doctor, in the 'Going Sane' Legends of the Dark Knight arc, who took a wounded Bruce under her care and eventually figured his secret out. As most of LotDK stories, this one has doubtful canonicity, but I still thought it deserved a mention.

Damo
11-17-2006, 10:04 AM
To summarise - first it was definitly stated she did not know, so you would expect the reveal to be shown "on-screen", which never happened.

Well... from a good enough writer and editor I would expect that, yes. It could very well be that nobody writing her as Robin realized she hadn't already been told.

The question, I suppose, is just how much of a dick do you thin Batman was. Did he really have a Robin that didn't even know he was Bruce Wayne? I find that a little hard to swallow, even from Batdick.

Nintendite
11-17-2006, 12:37 PM
The Joker, IIRC, knew it during the Emperor Joker storyline, along with Superman's secret identity. It's unclear if he has forgotten that since then or not.

I think it's safe to say that the Joker, if he still knew it, would be either:

A) Killing everyone remotely connected to Bruce Wayne, allowing us to get a "Death of Alfred" storyline or something gratuitous like that.
B) Not believe it.

or

C) Not give a damn.

It'd all depend on who was writing.

Lorendiac
11-17-2006, 06:03 PM
Here are two entries that I honestly thought I had included in the Second Draft. If you had strapped me up to a polygraph and asked me if they were in that draft, I would have said “yes” and the polygraph would have indicated that I was telling the simple truth. Except that somehow they didn’t make it in. I distinctly remember looking up Matter Master’s real name so I could include it in his entry; I don’t know what happened.

Aquaman I (Orin. He was present when the JLAers were sharing identities in “JLA #50” but I think he already knew Bruce’s secret.)

Matter Master (Mark Mandrill. Found out the secret IDs of Batman and several other JLAers a long time ago, according to an “Identity Crisis” retcon. Then got mindwiped by Zatanna. Then Despero recently helped him rediscover those memories in “JLA: Crisis of Conscience.” Then they got wiped out (or suppressed, or whatever) by Zatanna all over again . . . until further notice?)

Amethyst Rose
11-18-2006, 02:54 AM
I think it's safe to say that the Joker, if he still knew it, would be either:

A) Killing everyone remotely connected to Bruce Wayne, allowing us to get a "Death of Alfred" storyline or something gratuitous like that.
B) Not believe it.

or

C) Not give a damn.

It'd all depend on who was writing.

Joker, if he does know (and I don't think it's been shown he DOES know, at least currently), probably wouldn't do anything with the knowledge. He LIVES for his battles with Bats, so he wouldn't do anything that would possibly bring those to an end. In his mind, outing him as Bruce Wayne would end all the fun. And he'd likely kill anyone else who tried.

elias_A
11-18-2006, 04:11 AM
Well... from a good enough writer and editor I would expect that, yes. It could very well be that nobody writing her as Robin realized she hadn't already been told.

The question, I suppose, is just how much of a dick do you thin Batman was. Did he really have a Robin that didn't even know he was Bruce Wayne? I find that a little hard to swallow, even from Batdick.

Remember, he had also a Batgirl that did not know this for years (Cass found out when she saw him as Bruce on TV during murderer...

I admit I was expecting at that time the fact that Spoiler did not know during fugitive to lead into a major story for her later (maybe the editors really intended this, since I think Idelson said they planned Steph's death for years, probably since Batman told her Tim's ID and started his "hire and fire" cycle with Steph...),
but then, all that happened was this awfull war games...

But I repeat, one of my main reasons is that, in the issue where she became Robin, Batman said something like "you don't get to learn the BIG secrets yet", if I remember correctly...
What else than his ID should he have meant?

cyclops2500
11-18-2006, 06:22 AM
I would almost add Arsenal to the list. On one hand, he didn't know Bats well enough to see that he was dealing with Slade dressed in cowl and cape. On the the other hand, when the new Outsiders found out that their primary benefactor was another arm of Wayne Enterprises, the only person who seemed to get why Nightwing was upset was Roy.

Sandy Hausler
11-22-2006, 05:50 AM
Just now, I was over on the Batman board at DC's own forums, and I ran across a thread on this topic. Several people had posted lots of different names, but nobody had tried to "organize" them. I decided it wouldn't take long for me to put them in alphabetical order and throw in a few additions of my own, as a community service. So I did. I'm sure I'm missing some people, and I may have made mistakes in the people included on this draft of the list. I welcome any constructive criticism! I only wrote this on the spur of the moment, mainly drawing upon other people's comments on the subject! Could be plenty of room for error! :)

I sorted the names alphabetically, either by a person's costumed alias or else by the first letter of the first name.

Alfred Pennyworth
Aquaman I (Orin)
Azrael (Jean Paul Valley, AKA Batman II, now dead)
Bane
Batgirl III (Cassandra Cain)
Bird
Black Lightning (Jefferson Pierce)
Booster Gold (Michael Carter)
Cain (David Cain, the assassin)
Catwoman I (Selina Kyle)
The Crime Doctor (Bradford Thorne. Learned in his first appearance in 1980. I don't know if he still knows in modern continuity)
Damian (Batman's newly discovered long-lost son)
Deacon Blackfire (knew in "The Cult" but that story was later, allegedly, erased from continuity)
Deadman (Boston Brand)
Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade Wilson)
Flash III (Wally West)
Geo-Force (Brion Markov)
Green Lantern #whatever (Hal Jordan)
Halo (Violet Harper)
Harold Allnut (dead)
Hawkgirl (Kendra Saunders)
Henri Ducard (knew during "Blind Justice," but that story was allegedly erased from continuity)
Hugo Strange (kinda-sorta-sometimes thinks he knows, but -- as far as I can tell in the modern continuity -- has never actually proven it for sure. For instance, he's never captured Batman and then ripped off his cowl to reveal the face of Bruce Wayne underneath)
Hush (Tommy Elliot)
Ion (Kyle Rayner, formerly Green Lantern #whatever)
Jack Drake (dead)
Jason Todd (AKA Robin II, Nightwing, and the Red Hood)
Jeannie Bowen (in "Blind Justice," which was allegedly erased from continuity later)
Katana (Tatsu Yamashiro)
Lady Shiva (Sandra Woosan)
Leslie Thompkins
Lois Lane
Martian Manhunter (J'onn J'onnz)
Metamorpho (Rex Mason)
Nyssa Raatko (AKA Ra's al Ghul II. Dead)
Oracle (Barbara Gordon)
Owlman (Thomas Wayne of the Earth of the Antimatter Universe)
Plastic Man (Eel O'Brian)
The Question (Vic Sage)
Ra's al Ghul (dead)
Riddler (Edward Nigma, although those memories may be blocked at the moment, or else he's implicitly pretending they are, in Dini's current run on Detective Comics)
Robin III (Tim Drake)
Roy Kane (In "Blind Justice," but that story was allegedly erased from continuity. Anyway, he died at the end of it)
Sasha Bordeaux
Silver St. Cloud
The Spectre #whatever (Crispus Allen)
Spoiler (Stephanie Brown, AKA Robin IV, now dead)
Superboy-Prime (the Clark Kent of Earth-Prime)
Supergirl #whatever (Kara Zor-El, the Rebooted Version)
Superman (Clark Kent, Kal-El)
Talia
Trogg
Wonder Woman I (Diana)
Zombie


A few notes:

In the early 1980s, when I was reading the first Marv Wolfman/George Perez run on "The New Teen Titans," it was clear that everybody in the group knew that Robin (later Nightwing) was Dick Grayson, and that Bruce Wayne was Batman. I have heard that later, maybe around the time of Zero Hour, Denny O'Neil tried to retcon that to say that NONE of the other Titans had ever known who Batman was. Period! So I'm not clear on how many current or former Titans are supposed to know who Batman is, right now, in modern continuity. Likewise, when Tim Drake was with Young Justice, he was under strict orders not to reveal any of Batman's secrets to his new teammates.

It has never been firmly established that Jim Gordon knows. It's been hinted at a few dozen times, but he has never said (or even thought to himself), "There goes Batman, otherwise known as Bruce Wayne!"

I didn't bother listing all the people from Pre-COIE Earth-2 who would know (including the Golden Age versions of Lois and Clark, who both died in IC)

I listed Owlman from Grant Morrison's "Earth-2" -- but I don't know how many of his buddies in the Crime Syndicate of America know his secret identity. Any of them who did know could use that to deduce that Bruce Wayne is Batman in the main Earth of the DCU.

I left off Anarky because nobody's told me yet when he is supposed to have found out. If someone can steer me to the right issue, I'll add him to a future version of the list.


Message was edited by: lorendiac


Maybe I'm just missing it, but I don't see Dick Grayson on the list, not under his name or Nightwing or Robin I. And what about Barbara Gordon? She's not listed under her name or under Oracle or Batgirl II.

Sandy Hausler

EDIT: I see they both turned up on the amended list.

Kara Zor El
11-22-2006, 06:45 AM
Sorry about mentioning Vicky Vale, I hadn't read that issue since the day it acme out. But I remeber the cover and he is unmasking himself to her on that. But you are right, he didn't go through with it in the actual sory.

Another character is the man who captures Batman in the LOTDK story Mask. He uncovers Bruce's secret and then tries to convince him he is a homeless drunk, who thinks he's Batman and a millionaire. I can't remember his name and he was killed at the end of the story. The nurse also new.