Birds of Prey #100 - Of course there's spoilers

[MrSuslov]

Well, since it's better to do it here than anywhere else.

OK, so I liked the 'this message will self-destruct in three minutes' bit. "Good morning, Babs..." On the other hand, I don't pretend to recognize every superheroine on the pages. Power Girl has never looked more like a man. Someone should tell Guy Gardner.

A Mexican womens' prison? I'm not entirely sure what to say, other than "look out for a cheap porno film crew." Who's the individual in the red? Looks vaguely like an Imperial Japanese rising sun on the torso, but that don't help me a bit. I liked the panel where Barda's looking at the thing that Miss Spencer handed her; I could basically hear a feminized version of Tim Allen's old sound effect for confusion or interest. (No, I haven't the foggiest as to how I'd spell it.)

Can't say that I'm instantly fond of the new girl at DOD. Although I purchase Manhunter willingly, I can't say that I'm enthusiastic about Kate Spencer being signed to the Birds, and I'm wholly unenthusiastic about the possibility of Barda being added to the team. I don't care for the other DCU giant, Knockout, and so I'm not caring here either. Perhaps this will change, but it seems a bit forlorn.

As for the next part, well, er...

KILL THE KID. Ahem.

The art's not bad, coming as it does from one of the artists whose work was more favorable in my eyes for a while, and it's interesting to see some more of the Lance family dynamic. The biggest problem in this section is that it's Miss Lance and that little foreign brat, of whom I know too much and care not at all. After all, she's the purported reason that Miss Lance is no longer on the Birds. How about Annoying Plot Device Children in Refrigerators and/or Garbage Disposals? I can't say that I enjoyed the panel of Miss Lance hanging up, partially covered, like a piece of meat. Of course, we're not supposed to enjoy that, but it provoked an 'ew' response. I wonder if that was the intent of the writer and/or artist.

The last little bit regarding Zinda was amusing. Aping the feel of the old Times Square 1945 victory photograph was an interesting thing; I'd be interested in hearing more about that. As currently written, she's capable of stealing whatever scene she's in, and that will be appreciated in the issues ahead.

I saved this book for last out of the thirty-dollar haul today, and I'm glad I did; it was too depressing to have read anywhere other than last. Outside, it's been pouring rain for hours, and I suppose that's an appropriate metaphor for the events in Comic-land.

Haawwwkaaaaa, indeed. We now switch our "favorite Bird" allegiances to Miss Zinda Blake.

[Michael P]

The bit with Zinda kissing the dude was pricesless. Gail, tell me that was your idea.

As for the main story, well, it's certainly interesting, the new direction the book's taking. I'm most interested in seeing who accepts, and who doesn't. (What's Power Girl's problem with Oracle, though?) The Hallway is a good visual device, although I hope we won't get the off-panel selection gimmick every time Babs selects a mission crew.

The plot was whipcrack fast, and that's a good thing. The squib thing was the first time a writer's outwitted me like that in a while; I was impressed.

I also have to give some kudos to Nicola Scott, for being the first Birds artist to make these ladies look strong and sexy without resorting to cheesecake shots on every page. Not that I don't like cheesecake, but there's a time and place. I see a bit of Perez influence in her style, but also a clear distinctness that makes it her own. I look forward to seeing her development on this book, especially as she moves through such a diverse cast of characters as the DCU has to offer.

The Birds of Prey are no more. Long live the Birds of Prey.

[ChthonicSpirit]

(What's Power Girl's problem with Oracle, though?)

Old mission disagreement. There was this sinking ship and this politician in danger at the same time. Hundreds of people died on the ship, including women and children, because Oracle ordered PG to go save the politician instead, using the logic that she might prevent a war or something, eventually saving more lives.

[Josh S]

Old mission disagreement. There was this sinking ship and this politician in danger at the same time. Hundreds of people died on the ship, including women and children, because Oracle ordered PG to go save the politician instead, using the logic that he might prevent a war or something, eventually saving more lives.

If that's true, Oracle is a moron.

[Lester C.]

I hope for Gail's sake that the response the BOP new direction is one of the many instances where the response from the internet is a direct response from the marketplace. It's disturbing the number of Yabsters that will be leaving this book after this issue.

[blackcanary_416]

First I loved how Oracle said it kinda felt empty, it did but then seeing her take charge like that was great and the new line up looks fun and I'm glad the book is taking that direction.

I have said it over and over again how grateful I am of the evolution from 56-99.

The backup story with Dinah and Sin was great, I loved her looking back to see Dinah Sr. and Larry. I like that she is finally a solo act and should be :)

This spy smasher lady is going to cause trouble. I have this feeling that this is going to give Oracle a tough time.

Great issue Gail and thanks for providing me with such a great big storyline of Canary and all "the little side bits" ;)

[titanfan]

If that's true, Oracle is a moron.

Well, it wasn't a normal politician. If I remember right, it was some dude who was negotiating a peace treaty or something and if he didn't get saved, there was going to be this war. It was a tougher decision than it seemed. (At least when I remember reading it)

[Gail Simone]

Ah, Lester, no one likes to lose a reader. We'll see what happens.

But those who stick are gonna have a lot of fun.

Gail

[Cam63]

Just promise a guest shot by that Highlander wanker in the next issue.

[Starba]

The Good:

A nice self-contained story, bringing the Birds firmly back into non-meta crime territory, where they shine the best, I think. I knew Barda was going to be in this issue, and I was still surprised by her reveal! That was cool! Huntress shooting the poor girl was definitely the most WTF suspenseful part of the issue. Nice twist. Babs' tactical skills really got to shine this time, too, and it was pretty fun to see a Birds mission completed without a single hitch.

An extended summary of Canary's backstory written by the writer who made her a star again! All right! I still don't see how this meshes at all with what's going on in Justice League of America, but I'll be the first to say Brad Meltzer's not the golden boy of following established plot and characterization...

Dr. Light! I was wondering where she went! A lot of nice cameos here. Hoping to see more of everyone in the future!

Nicola Scott! Woo! Huntress in particular looks miles better under Scott's pen than she did last arc. The clashing purples, Rogue-esque ski suit, and warty elbow/knee pads I'm still not a fan of, but she certainly is a lot prettier now.

Really looking forward to the Manhunter focus next month!

...Did you name Mr. Mochizuki, Gail? ;)


The Not-So-Good:

I was kinda disappointed by the weight of exposition over real-time characterization, but what are you going to do? It's early in the new run yet, and that's to be expected.

In a way we were spoiled by Benes' attention to detail before, but I think I prefer my females looking unique and without the silicone pout, anyway, so no love lost at all. Colors seem a little bright and cartoony this time around, though...

If there will be more story told from individual characters' POV in the future, like in Dinah's diary from before, I'm golden. Seeing the world even briefly from Sin's point of view would make her a lot more interesting, I think, and a lot less obvious of a storytelling device. This issue's strict 3rd person perspective really took me out of it, anyway...I didn't really "feel" any of the characters this time, even the established ones...

I don't like the Judomaster costume. I know there's a big silver age push lately and I know it's a nod to Katana's look, but I'm a fan of the more grounded costumes. That, and I think it's disingenuous and old-fashioned to have foreign-y characters running around in their national flag. How many anime superheroes, Japanese heroes written by and for a Japanese population, fly the hinomaru so prominently? ESPECIALLY the WWII version? Excepting the most right wing individuals (shady characters in general who care more about national strength than justice), Japan is a lot more hesitant to display national pride than other nations, especially when it is associated with the use of actual force, considering the bitter feelings associated with the former Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. Flying the American flag is one thing, since even if you don't agree with the current administration it can still stand for freedom and individual rights. Not so much the same for the Japanese flag, invented during the late 1800s as a symbol of the nation as Japan's uncertain, feverish, and generally ugly nation/empire-building campaign began. It's also a sign of the national religion, which is seriously followed by hardly anyone and also arouses bitter feelings in other Asian countries. I don't know much about Judomaster as a character now (heck, she might even be a right wing wacko), but this at least feels unrealistic. I would be a lot more at ease if any of these sorts of issues were addressed in the future...

[Zel]

What happened to Gypsy? Why doesn't she have full security access like Huntress and Zinda? I mean, she's already seen Oracle and all. Did you just forget about her? Or is it like in Buffy where her invisibility is a side effect of people forgetting all about her? Poor forgettable ... Uh, who was I just talking about?

[Michael P]

I must admit I'm not a fan of Judomaster's costume either, although not for political reasons; I just think it doesn't look good.

Also, wikipedia for anyone who, like me and Starba, don't know who Judomaster is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judomaster

Edit: Wow, that's not helpful at all, is it?

[Starba]

I'd actually read that before making my post. The new costume is still almost identical to Katana's recent one, if that's what you're referring to. It's possible that Judomaster was only reintroduced to follow the general trend of putting strictly DC identities in the Charlston costumes, but still, ick.

[shaxper]

GREAT issue!


I'll readily confess that I've been reading BOP with some hesitation since the start of OYL. While I loved the writing, I felt like I'd come in right at the end of something. I didn't know much about Dinah beyond her Green Lantern / Green Arrow days, so her mid-life crisis of sorts wasn't doing much for me. Zinda and Huntress were quite interesting as characters, but were rarely in the dramatic foreground of the story.

Anyway, I think I REALLY like this new lineup. I can't believe you've made me love Kate Spencer. I hate the Manhunter title, yet I love Kate after only one issue (particularly the "bang my brains out with this briefcase" moment). I'm getting very positive vibes from Barda as well (no read on Judomaster yet), and I'm glad that Huntress and Zinda will spend more time in the foreground.

And yes, the backup story was fantastic. I really like how you're writing the duo, and I can't help but swell with anticipation over what kind of teen Sin will grow to be. Incidentally, are we to presume that Dinah will be visiting Ollie in the near future? Will she surface in the Green Arrow title?


This issue has left me with one nagging question though: Why is membership only extended to women?

Now, before anyone slaps their heads and exclaims "duh!" allow me to explain. I understand why the comic book title is all female. It works well for interpersonal dynamics and makes the title unique, and I do believe that Gail writes women best. But why does Oracle keep it all female? What's her reasoning for extending invitations to virtually any women with a mask but not a single male, regardless of their experience or usefulness? I was surprised this didn't come up at some point in the issue.

Edit: I forgot to mention my fond appreciation for the highly enjoyable Captain Carrot cameos (if you can call them that). Man, I want those Burger King glasses!

[ChthonicSpirit]

This issue has left me with one nagging question though: Why is membership only extended to women?

This question was actually addressed a while ago. All we can determine is that Oracle has some vague hang-up about men. She'll work with them at a distance, but doesn't want them as her personal agents.

Even Gail says she's not clear on why, though.

[Gail Simone]

This question was actually addressed a while ago. All we can determine is that Oracle has some vague hang-up about men. She'll work with them at a distance, but doesn't want them as her personal agents.

Even Gail says she's not clear on why, though.

She most certainly does NOT have a 'hang-up about men."

For right now, she prefers female agents, but we'll be facing that question head on, and right soon.

Gail

[Night Swordsman]

I am still in Gail. Went thru two hours of total hell,during what i normally call SLEEP time,and managed to get the last BoP 100. And i am not dropping it,but it was EXTREMELY disorientating. Was very hard to tell what was going on,but Spy Smasher at the end made me smile. Thank you.

[ChthonicSpirit]

She most certainly does NOT have a 'hang-up about men."

Okay, so she had avoided letting male agents into her team, for no identifiable reason, which you yourself said wasn't logical. But no hang-ups. Gotcha.

I guess she just prefers women . . . Oh dear me, I've just gone and made an innuendo, haven't I? :)

[berk]

This question was actually addressed a while ago. All we can determine is that Oracle has some vague hang-up about men. She'll work with them at a distance, but doesn't want them as her personal agents.

Even Gail says she's not clear on why, though.Batman's probably a good enough reason to turn a woman off men; not to mention bats - they should write that in!

[Starba]

Cthonic Spirit, how many small private organizations do you know of that go at their membership with an affirmative action attitude? How do you know Oracle wasn't thinking "hey, it'd be cool if we had a theme. y'know, like just being an all-female crime-fighting group?" It doesn't have to be because she hates men. Don't want to hurt your ego, but have you considered that maybe she's not thinking about men at all? ;)

[David Atkins]

Yay, Barda! Nice to see one of my favorite female characters in use by a writer I'm coming to trust. Yay, Manhunter, too! I've been intrigued by that character since I first read about her, but have never actually gone and picked up any issues from her series. Maybe this will work as an 'in' for me there. :)

[ChthonicSpirit]

Cthonic Spirit, how many small private organizations do you know of that go at their membership with an affirmative action attitude? How do you know Oracle wasn't thinking "hey, it'd be cool if we had a theme. y'know, like just being an all-female crime-fighting group?" It doesn't have to be because she hates men.

Lets say someone thought it would be cool to have an all-male crime fighting group. They wouldn't necessarily be doing it because they hated women, would they? But if asked to justify their membership, I doubt they could produce any reason that wasn't false, sexist, or just plain silly. Same goes for Oracle.

Don't want to hurt your ego, but have you considered that maybe she's not thinking about men at all?

See above. Frankly, my ego is more hurt by the fact that no one seems to be able to spell my screenname properly.;)

[Corrina]

CS, given your posts about WW, I don't trust your insight in any character's motivations, male or female.

If you read Batgirl:Year One, you'll see that Babs was kept out of many organized crimefighting professions because she was a woman. It makes perfect sense to me that when Oracle needs new agents that she'd reach out to other women whose skills may be underutilized.

[Starba]

Lets say someone thought it would be cool to have an all-male crime fighting group. They wouldn't necessarily be doing it because they hated women, would they? But if asked to justify their membership, I doubt they could produce any reason that wasn't false, sexist, or just plain silly. Same goes for Oracle.

Is there something wrong with "just plain silly?"


See above. Frankly, my ego is more hurt by the fact that no one seems to be able to spell my screenname properly.;)

Sorry. :p

[Michael P]

Is there something wrong with "just plain silly?"
Haven't you heard? Superheroes is serious business.

[Starba]

Haven't you heard? Superheroes is serious business.

ESPECIALLY ones in fishnet stockings and miniskirts!

[ChthonicSpirit]

CS, given your posts about WW, I don't trust your insight in any character's motivations, male or female.

So, the fact that I voiced an unpopular theory removes, in your mind, my capacity for rational thought? That doesn't make much sense, but thanks for mentioning it.

If you read Batgirl:Year One, you'll see that Babs was kept out of many organized crimefighting professions because she was a woman. It makes perfect sense to me that when Oracle needs new agents that she'd reach out to other women whose skills may be underutilized.

Well, I have no problem with that. I will say though, that it doesn't seem to have been her motivation for recruiting agents in the past. She thought Dinah needed lifting up, she recruited Huntress in the spur of the moment and then decided to reform her, she thought Zinda needed a place in the modern world, Shiva was forced upon her by the deal she and Dinah made, etc.

[ChthonicSpirit]

Is there something wrong with "just plain silly?"

Not at all, if it brings us fishnets. :evilsmile

[Starba]

Unlike a lot of people (women or otherwise), I've never had a problem with what women wear in comics. Ludicrously accentuated body parts, yes, because that reflects more on the intent than the character, but clothes, no. Any symbol can be reappropriated, deconstructed, and used to subvert the ideology lurking behind its original form. Or not.

Is Canary wearing the fishnets because editors demand it or because she wants to look sexy for men or because she wants to take bad guys off guard or because she wants to look sexy for herself? I'm not bothered. As long as she wears them with pride, she looks great.

[ChthonicSpirit]

Is Canary wearing the fishnets because editors demand it or because she wants to look sexy for men or because she wants to take bad guys off guard or because she wants to look sexy for herself? I'm not bothered. As long as she wears them with pride, she looks great.

I think she wears them in her mother's memory, meaning yes, she wears them with pride.

And I completely agree with you about the comicbook costumes. They don't bother me, either, no matter how seemingly ludicrous they are from a practical perspective. In fact, I've tried to convince Gail of the value of Huntress's Hush-era costume, but I don't know if we'll actually see it again.

[Starba]

I think she wears them in her mother's memory, meaning yes, she wears them with pride.

And I completely agree with you about the female costumes. They don't bother me, either. In fact, I just tried to ask Gail for Huntress's Hush-era costume back, but I don't know if that will ever happen.

Actually, solicits show Huntress wearing it in on Oracle's computer screen in the next issue or so...

[ChthonicSpirit]

Actually, solicits show Huntress wearing it in on Oracle's computer screen in the next issue or so...

Hrrm. Interesting.

Gee, I hope no one minds how we've completely hijacked this thread . . . :D

[Starba]

I have a bad habit of derailing threads.

Um...yeah, Birds of Prey 100: Better than the lead-up but still could be better. A little heavy on the explanations, but that's what first issues are for. Plenty of room to work up to a climax, and looking forward to it!

[shrike]

I cannot believe that this is even coming out of my mouth, but I far preferred and understood Canary's characterization this month by CHUCK DIXON (wtf?) and BRAD MELTZER (end of the world??) over her in BoP by Gail.

I hated the flashback to where Green Arrow saved Canary. Yes, we've never seen that situation before, EVER. I still don't understand why she is now leaving the city (err she owns a shop still??) and is getting out of the hero business yet is in the JLA as a member.

I cannot believe her end in BoP is wondering in the back of her head if her and Ollie may one day get back together, after ALL the time spent working on not making her an appendage to him. Seriously, this all just feels like the past 50 issues were for naught. I feel cheated. I really felt like Gail just 'got it' regarding the character, and now... whether it be the writing or an editorial madate... it feels very hollow and fake. Totally unlike anything I've seen her write before.

Color me baffled in every single way possible. Sorry Gail, the BC story misfired on every cylinder for me save the Zoo Crew reference.

The first part of the book was servicable... good story overall but not enough to change my mind about knocking it off my pull list.

[Starba]

JUDD WINICK: Make it work. They belong together.

The going back to Ollie thing's probably not Gail's fault.

[MrSuslov]

The going back to Ollie thing's probably not Gail's fault.
JUDD WINICK: Make it work. They belong together.
Arrgh. I hadn't thought of that, but it's absolutely unacceptable to link those two up. Who needs that watermelon Arrow anyways?

[ChthonicSpirit]

Arrgh. I hadn't thought of that, but it's absolutely unacceptable to link those two up. Who needs that watermelon Arrow anyways?

Well, I suppose Mia Dearden needs him. Other than that, I have no idea. Speaking for myself, I hate him most vigorously.

So, I finally got to a comic shop.

Birds of Prey 100, then:

I liked the invitation scene. The flammable cards were a nice touch. Classic spy stuff.

Oracle asks Wonder Woman to join? She's reaching. Weren't the birds supposed to be a 'detail' crew rather than 'big picture'? That was what Dinah said, at any rate.

When did Dr. Light get her powers back? At the time of her last appearance, she was de-powered and in a coma. I certainly agree that she should recover, but I would like to be told how. I would be really disappointed if we were being asked to accept another instance of OYL as deus ex machina.

Glad to see Power Girl doesn't need time to think about it. You rock, Karen.

The story with the kid in the mexican jail was okay. Very basic, very much in keeping with the books history as human-scale espionage. I'm not sure that all of that was really necessary - five agents for this kid, knowing what has been accomplished by one or two agents in the past - but it still worked. Judomaster, though, needs a new costume. She looks like a patriotic condom.

Kate Spencer: I am curious why Oracle even asked her. Has Oracle abandoned her strict policy on killing? Has Kate reformed? Because Kate kills. She sets out to kill, because she believes it just. The same objection goes for Thorne, and probably Barda as well. Or are New Genesis warriors known for their pacifism?

I am not thrilled with Manhunter's strategy for maintaining her cover. For her alibi she wants to be knocked out? Oh, that's right, concussion doesn't mean brain damage in the DCU.

The spy-catcher lady fails to impress. People who can rant at their underlings are a dime a dozen, even with a wallet full of fake ID's. On the other hand, I'm glad someone notices when Oracle gratuitously breaks the law. Not that I wouldn't also probably break the law in that situation, but still, it would be silly if it always, completely slipped under the radar.

The backstory for Canary was sweet, but the old objections still apply to her and Sin: how is it spending more time with her daughter if she simply goes and joins the JLA?

The old objections also apply to Sin's Mad Skillz, which I see were brought up AGAIN. She was taught to kill multiple opponents with her bare hands? Oh, that's right, the kid has secret Shiva training, because she went to Shiva-school. Raaaaaage.

Ollie: Thumbs down. I have no really profound objection to him being featured in this issue, it's just that the guy makes me sick. I HOPE Canary isn't going to do anything stupid regarding him.

Some of the flashback's disappointed me. Huntress became a vigilante because she wanted to kill the mobsters who killed her parents? Err, no. That really wasn't the case. I would've thought Canary understood Helena better than that.

So, some good, some bad. This issue didn't resolve anything. Canary still may return to the team - she's certainly still in the book - and there are new members, who may stay or go. This book is kind of teetering on the brink, for me. I might drop it, or I might stay on board for the next few issues . . . then again, the next few issues involve misfit, so maybe not.

[Sharpandpointies]

If that's true, Oracle is a moron.

Seconded. O_O I had no idea that was the case.

[NickThompson]

Actually, solicits show Huntress wearing it in on Oracle's computer screen in the next issue or so...
Noooooooooooo! I like the current costume :(

[ChthonicSpirit]

Seconded. O_O I had no idea that was the case.

I gather Oracle had some specific reason for thinking that this one guy could stop a war, but it's still a case of weighing the possibility of loss of life against the reality of loss of life.

[Sharpandpointies]

I gather Oracle had some specific reason for thinking that this one guy could stop a war, but it's still a case of weighing the possibility of loss of life against the reality of loss of life.

And I don't believe that's right.

The people were THERE, they were DYING. There might have been some other way to prevent the war. The future is not absolute - the present is.

[Sharpandpointies]

Kate Spencer: I am curious why Oracle even asked her. Has Oracle abandoned her strict policy on killing? Has Kate reformed? Because Kate kills. She sets out to kill, because she believes it just. The same objection goes for Thorne....

This part rather boggles me. I don't know anything about Barda. But I wouldn't want a psychotic, blade-armed vigilante on my team (not Thorne, not Wolverine) if I had an objection to killing. Neither would I want Manhunter.

Then again, there are Huntress and Zinda - crossbow bolts and bullets.

I am not thrilled with Manhunter's strategy for maintaining her cover. For her alibi she wants to be knocked out? Oh, that's right, concussion doesn't mean brain damage in the DCU.


Actually, to quote Sensei and Student:

You ever been knocked cold, Morgan?....It's not as benign as it looks. You jerk at the last second, and we're talking concussion, or brain damage.

Such things are alive and well in BoP.

[ChthonicSpirit]

The people were THERE, they were DYING. There might have been some other way to prevent the war. The future is not absolute - the present is.

Oh, I agree. And I generally think that a nation ought to be able to find peace if it really desired it. On the other hand, if the nations involved desired war, well, they'd find a way to have that instead.

Actually, to quote Sensei and Student:


You ever been knocked cold, Morgan?....It's not as benign as it looks. You jerk at the last second, and we're talking concussion, or brain damage.

Such things are alive and well in BoP.

Right. Yeah, I remember that. But technically, any blow to the head that produces unconsciousness has caused a concussion. Although I suppose Kate could have just wanted a cut or bruise to show off while feigning poor coordination.

[Sharpandpointies]

Right. Yeah, I remember that. But technically, any blow to the head that produces unconsciousness has in fact caused a concussion.

I'm just saying that such things do exist in the DCU. :)

Strictly speaking, I don't think smacking someone on the occipetal bun causes concussion, in that it doesn't bounce the brain off the skull.

.....

Personally, I think I'd prefer a concussion.

[Gail Simone]

Lets say someone thought it would be cool to have an all-male crime fighting group. They wouldn't necessarily be doing it because they hated women, would they? But if asked to justify their membership, I doubt they could produce any reason that wasn't false, sexist, or just plain silly. Same goes for Oracle.



See above. Frankly, my ego is more hurt by the fact that no one seems to be able to spell my screenname properly.;)


I said we're handling it.

So it's kind of a dumb complaint.

Gail

[siuntres]

I represent PETA, and demand more animals on the team.

Beepo should BOP, dammit!

[The Beast Of Yucca Flats]

This was definitely the best issue of BOP since the whole OYL thing started, and maybe the best anniversary issue I've seen DC do in about several years. And Nicola Scott is very much welcome aboard here! Her fluid art recalls some of the great BOP artists like Matt Haley or (old school) Greg Land. Here's to the new era! :D

[Gail Simone]

(Punches Beast of Yucca Flats for no reason)

Thanks! :)

Gail, full of beans today

[Lester C.]

Ah, Lester, no one likes to lose a reader. We'll see what happens.

But those who stick are gonna have a lot of fun.

Gail
My theory is that you are going to lose some people but gain a lot more. This reminds me of Villains United. After the first issue people were complaining that the first cover was deceptive, the protagonists were third stringer nobodies, the book should have stared Luther's team etc. They were saying how they were not going to buy the rest of the issues and engaged in all other manner of bitching. Well when the smoke all cleared Villains United was seen by all as the best mini in years and sold a gillion copies. I think the same thing that happened with Villains is going to happen with Birds of Prey after it takes it new exciting direction and the smoke clears.

[hellokittykat]

I liked the main story.

I was only slightly disappointed at first because it was number 100! and I was expecting...I don't know...something splashy? When I stopped thinking about it as a 100! issue and just as the beginning of the coming arc, then I thought it was pretty cool. Though, I majorly miss Dinah, the change up is actually kind of cool. It's interesting to see Helena change from the 'outsider' to the 'vet'. It also seems like she will be the referee of the group which is a cool flip.

I wasn't that crazy about the Dinah backup story which is surprising because I love everything with BC the First. Especially if there is interaction with Dinah the Younger. I'll tell you why as soon as I can organize my thoughts. I started writing them here and it ended up being a mess. With post again soon.

[Dedagda]

My theory is that you are going to lose some people but gain a lot more.

Nail - Head.

I could have a conversation about it where I could bend my words based on the response of the listener. Typing it out it I'll need to be pretty specific.

BoP = Oracle, Black Canary and/or Simone fans. Its true. Story or art be damned, If I polled my audience that's what they'd say.

Villains United and Secret Six was the first time, I saw folks picking up a book without regard to Gail Simone's name being on the cover. It certainly wasn't Catman. Gail Simone has made Catman.

Secret Six outsells BoP in my store. I have customers picking up an issue then returning to scour my back issue bins for the previous issues. It easy to compare writers to themselves. We can see their strengths. We can see what works by the difference in the audiences.

Secret Six works because the dynamic changes. I don't know which side anyone is on. I don't who is going to die. I'm not even sure there are six of them.

For BoP a rotating cast will provide the constant relationship shake-ups to keep us guessing. In the latest issue we had Kate Spencer, justice bringer and reluctant killer. She's done it in the past, but its never her first choice. Panel for panel, I don't know what she's going to do. Its exciting.

Let me go back a litte. Birds of Prey #21 was the first meeting of "Oracle" and Black Canary. I had waited a couple of years, 20 issues and a few one-shots and minis for this. When they met I almost cried, I was so emotional.

Breaking up the stability of the team is going to bring the unknown. Otherwise BoP would become villain of the month.

It was tough to read this thread. It wasn't fun picking out the honest criticism from folks just being particular. I loved the new issue. Is #101 out yet?

Nicola Scott = awesome. I'm gald she's around for a few more issues. Is she the new series regular artist?

[siuntres]

Does Judomaster get self made undie wedgies, from all of her spin kicks?

[Merey]

Was the Dinah back-up story a Black Canary departure homage? If it was, I really thought it was sweet and fitting, but if we're going to continue to get the adventures of Dinah and little Sin, then...ugh! I enjoyed This Is Your Life, Dinah because I really think Dinah has one of the more interesting and down-to-earth back stories, but Sin as the prompter and representative audience seemed a bit too gimmicky. To be fair, I also don't really like the idea of any sort of Cousin Oliver character, so no amazing feats of brilliant dialogue, plotting...etc.. are going crack my bias.

The main story was fine. I was much more interested in the recruitment than that somewhat forgettable Mexican jail mission, but if it was all designed as an excuse to pull Kate (using her awesome legal mojo) into this book, then hey, it works for me.

[titanfan]

Does Judo even have all of those spin kicks?

Kate Spencer: I am curious why Oracle even asked her. Has Oracle abandoned her strict policy on killing? Has Kate reformed? Because Kate kills. She sets out to kill, because she believes it just. The same objection goes for Thorne, and probably Barda as well. Or are New Genesis warriors known for their pacifism?

Huntress killed as well. Barda definitely kills--although it's more like WW in the sense that she's a warrior and not a Vigilante.

Anyway BOP #100 wasn't nearly as bad as what some of the people I've been reading on the boards have been saying. But, I understand why they're dissappointed. Normally #100 issues are the end of giant cliff hangers, with explosions, deaths, betrayals, etc. This was more like an issue #1 instead of a #100. I still enjoyed it and am glad the storyline is continuing. Not a lot of character development with this team yet. Spy Smasher seems a bit over the top as a villain (reminds me of that we would have seen in the 80's), but I'm sure I'll love to hate her over time. My gay gene is telling me to relay to the powers that be that her costume is hideous.

The Black Canary was a good, quiet story for me. Again, I don't see how the Black Canary we see here (and in #99) gets to the place where we see Black Canary go in JLA #1.

Did something happen to Gypsy somewhere that I just missed? One issue she's there and all of a sudden Babs is treating her like she never existed. She doesn't even get a higher security clearance? She knows who Barbara is. (No invisibility jokes please :P)

[Gail Simone]

(Punches John Siuntres)

Okay, here's the truth of it...I don't mind honest criticism, AND I don't much mind people who are just being particular, as Richard astutely puts it (I like Richard, but I'd still punch him just to keep him in line).

But I do have a slight advantage, in that I know where we're going. I have confidence in it. Do I miss Canary? Of course I do. She's probably my favorite of all characters, and in a way, she's been the book's Fonzie.

But I also love Babs and Helena and Zinda, and I think the character appearing on the last couple pages (I don't know if she's been mentioned already) is killer interesting, at least to me.

Eventually, I hope Dinah comes back. But in the meantime, I think what we're doing is making for some really fun stories, that are a bit more superhero-y than the book has been in the past, but are STILL very different from any other hero team out there. That's my gut feeling. And I think it's gonna be just fine, saleswise, even though that's never my first concern.

Sometimes, if a book goes out and it didn't turn out exactly how I wanted, then I worry how it will be perceived a bit. That's not really the case here. I knew that this approach would make some people sad, and we might even lose readers who have been incredibly loyal. I'll be frank--that sucks. Not because of loss of sales, but because I don't like the idea that someone who has supported the book would feel, I guess abandoned is the best word.

But lack of change is death. I don't think this book was ever meant to hold the same status quo exactly for years at a time, and we've done lots of things that the loyal readers objected to at first and in many cases, they came around, knowing that the twists were done with care and respect. People howled about Shiva being in the Birds and I don't have a week go by where a bunch of people don't ask for her to come back.

I felt the same way about Gen13. When the first issue came out, a lot of my favorite reviewers not only disliked it, they ripped it to shreds and questioned my sanity. But I strongly felt it was some of my best work, and strongly felt also that as each new issue came in, that visceral reaction might be realized for what it was: a planned event. Now issue two comes out and it's Savage Critic's Best of the Week and Wizard calls it Ballsy and Daring and almost every review is a rave. Again, critics aren't the important thing (though it's always nice when someone you respect says good things), but I had faith, and I wouldn't change anything even if given the chance.

Not that any book is perfect or that I'm such a genius, just that I have a gut feeling when a book is good vs. when it could be a lot better, and I have to trust my instincts or I end up as one of those writers who only does fanservice comics.

Bop, I don't know what to say...certainly DC could and would put me on higher selling projects, although they've been endlessly supportive of the book. I would make more money, it would sell more copies, etc. etc. But Bop is really special to me for a million reasons. It's the book that really put my name on the map, for one. It's unique and has a different appeal (and for some in the audience, it's the only superhero book they read). And, with Legion, has one of the most loyal readerships in the business. But above all, I just flipping love the characters and the set-up, that a smart woman with a computer and some friends could change the world. I find that endlessly hopeful.

So, a couple times, I've had to make the best of an editorial situation I might not have chosen, and...what can I say? After banging my head on the monitor a couple times, I kind of enjoy that challenge. We lost the clock tower, but we gained the Aerie one and some fun international stories, you know? And we got Zinda out of it, who is just a blast AND a Blackhawk. We lose the Fieri Brothers restaurant, but we gain Black Alice.

To me, this feels like that...sad to lose Dinah, at least for a while, HAPPY to have all these other great new characters parading through. Writing Manhunter and Barda, and some of the upcoming characters, while refocusing on Oracle and Huntress...that all feels fun, but it also feels right, like an important chapter in a long story. I was given the option to let BOP go (not as a bad thing, DC has offered a ton of great projects), and I thought about it, but it just didn't seem like the time to stop. There's still a lot of fun stories to tell. And I don't want anyone coming in and telling them better than me, dammit. ;)

Anyway, there are some rambling thoughts. I get the people who miss Dinah already, I do. But if you stay, we're gonna have a blast. The next arc in particular is just plain insane, the BOP vs. The Secret Six, with Oracle in the worst situation of the entire run.

That's good times. ;)

I AM NOT OFFENDED OR HURT by the honest criticism, hopefully most of you know that by now. I have faith in what's coming up and I'm sad if some of you choose to leave the party, but I totally understand. If you stick around, it's going to be one of the craziest bop years yet.

And I love that stuff. ;)

Gail

[MrSuslov]

Various goodness.
As Fox Mulder once said, "I want to believe."

[MatthewC]

Well, I went and took BoP off my pull list yesterday. Actually, it was easy. My shop has me fill out an updated list every six months, so I just quietly didn't check the box for Birds of Prey.

Not saying I'm never going to buy another issue or anything dramatic like that. It's still going to be on the shelf every month, and I might yield to tempation. But I just don't feel as much attachment to the book without Black Canary.

Issue #100 was pretty good. Even though Spy Smasher is obviously going to be an antagonist, I like the fact that Oracle may finally be called to account on her contempt for the law. I know all superheroes go outside the law to some extent, but most of them at least use imminent danger as a justification. Barbara is perfectly willing to break the law to punish crimes as well as stopping crimes, answerable only to her own conscience. And when you think about it, that's a pretty funny attitude for the daughter of a cop to have. I think even Batman has more respect for legalities.

I read somewhere that Manhunter's deliberately hunting down and murdering supervillains has been retcon punched out of existance post-IC. Is that true?

Barda was fun, but I have to call BS (if just a little) on the whole, "Oh, this prison has a metahuman!" just to give her someone to fight. It used to be that superpowers were a big deal in the DC Universe. When someone had them, it was highly unusual and frightening. Now it seems like they're common enough that some Mexican prison can randomly have someone with enough superhuman strength to fight Barda. A throw-away character not significant enough to have a costume or name, no less. It kind of crushes the whole 'sense of wonder' thing.

And, hmmm. The back-up story with Dinah made sense, but I question the wisdom of doing an origin story for a character who's departing the book. If you want to do a farewell back-up for a character leaving the book after a hundred issues, that's fair enough. If you want to do an origin story on one of the new characters being introduced, that's fine too. But why do a talking heads story to fill readers in on the backstory of a character who won't be in the book any longer?

All in all, though, I liked the issue. I'm going to miss this book.

[NickThompson]

I enjoyed the book a lot.



However, can I make a semi complaint semi suggestion? I'd love it if Judomaster actually..........did some Judo. Why is it that whenever someone says they know Judo, they then start chopping, punching and kicking? Judoamaetur more like! ;)

[DarkCrisis]

I liked the back up story more then the main tale. I think this book will really lack due to no Dinah.

And I really want to know why Dinah goes from "I can't be a BoP for Sin... but the JLA! Oh yea!"

As for Ollie and Dinah hooking up again: Hell yea! I thin Ollie has changed and needs another chance! Of course I think Babs and Dick need to get together.

BTW did we EVER find out why they didn't get married?

[Michael P]

Okay, here's the truth of it...I don't mind honest criticism, AND I don't much mind people who are just being particular, as Richard astutely puts it (I like Richard, but I'd still punch him just to keep him in line).

But I do have a slight advantage, in that I know where we're going. I have confidence in it. Do I miss Canary? Of course I do. She's probably my favorite of all characters, and in a way, she's been the book's Fonzie.

But I also love Babs and Helena and Zinda, and I think the character appearing on the last couple pages (I don't know if she's been mentioned already) is killer interesting, at least to me.

Eventually, I hope Dinah comes back. But in the meantime, I think what we're doing is making for some really fun stories, that are a bit more superhero-y than the book has been in the past, but are STILL very different from any other hero team out there. That's my gut feeling. And I think it's gonna be just fine, saleswise, even though that's never my first concern.

Sometimes, if a book goes out and it didn't turn out exactly how I wanted, then I worry how it will be perceived a bit. That's not really the case here. I knew that this approach would make some people sad, and we might even lose readers who have been incredibly loyal. I'll be frank--that sucks. Not because of loss of sales, but because I don't like the idea that someone who has supported the book would feel, I guess abandoned is the best word.

But lack of change is death. I don't think this book was ever meant to hold the same status quo exactly for years at a time, and we've done lots of things that the loyal readers objected to at first and in many cases, they came around, knowing that the twists were done with care and respect. People howled about Shiva being in the Birds and I don't have a week go by where a bunch of people don't ask for her to come back.

I felt the same way about Gen13. When the first issue came out, a lot of my favorite reviewers not only disliked it, they ripped it to shreds and questioned my sanity. But I strongly felt it was some of my best work, and strongly felt also that as each new issue came in, that visceral reaction might be realized for what it was: a planned event. Now issue two comes out and it's Savage Critic's Best of the Week and Wizard calls it Ballsy and Daring and almost every review is a rave. Again, critics aren't the important thing (though it's always nice when someone you respect says good things), but I had faith, and I wouldn't change anything even if given the chance.

Not that any book is perfect or that I'm such a genius, just that I have a gut feeling when a book is good vs. when it could be a lot better, and I have to trust my instincts or I end up as one of those writers who only does fanservice comics.

Bop, I don't know what to say...certainly DC could and would put me on higher selling projects, although they've been endlessly supportive of the book. I would make more money, it would sell more copies, etc. etc. But Bop is really special to me for a million reasons. It's the book that really put my name on the map, for one. It's unique and has a different appeal (and for some in the audience, it's the only superhero book they read). And, with Legion, has one of the most loyal readerships in the business. But above all, I just flipping love the characters and the set-up, that a smart woman with a computer and some friends could change the world. I find that endlessly hopeful.

So, a couple times, I've had to make the best of an editorial situation I might not have chosen, and...what can I say? After banging my head on the monitor a couple times, I kind of enjoy that challenge. We lost the clock tower, but we gained the Aerie one and some fun international stories, you know? And we got Zinda out of it, who is just a blast AND a Blackhawk. We lose the Fieri Brothers restaurant, but we gain Black Alice.

To me, this feels like that...sad to lose Dinah, at least for a while, HAPPY to have all these other great new characters parading through. Writing Manhunter and Barda, and some of the upcoming characters, while refocusing on Oracle and Huntress...that all feels fun, but it also feels right, like an important chapter in a long story. I was given the option to let BOP go (not as a bad thing, DC has offered a ton of great projects), and I thought about it, but it just didn't seem like the time to stop. There's still a lot of fun stories to tell. And I don't want anyone coming in and telling them better than me, dammit. ;)

Anyway, there are some rambling thoughts. I get the people who miss Dinah already, I do. But if you stay, we're gonna have a blast. The next arc in particular is just plain insane, the BOP vs. The Secret Six, with Oracle in the worst situation of the entire run.

That's good times. ;)

I AM NOT OFFENDED OR HURT by the honest criticism, hopefully most of you know that by now. I have faith in what's coming up and I'm sad if some of you choose to leave the party, but I totally understand. If you stick around, it's going to be one of the craziest bop years yet.

And I love that stuff. ;)

Gail
Well said, Gail.

BUT... you still haven't addressed the most important question of all:

Who came up with the "Zinda re-enacting famous WWII kissing photo" bit?

Inquiring (and kooky) minds wanna know!

[Corrina]

So, the fact that I voiced an unpopular theory removes, in your mind, my capacity for rational thought? That doesn't make much sense, but thanks for mentioning it.




I didn't say rational thought. I said I think you have a lousy grasp of characterization.

[Lester C.]

I liked the back up story more then the main tale. I think this book will really lack due to no Dinah.

And I really want to know why Dinah goes from "I can't be a BoP for Sin... but the JLA! Oh yea!"

As for Ollie and Dinah hooking up again: Hell yea! I thin Ollie has changed and needs another chance! Of course I think Babs and Dick need to get together.

BTW did we EVER find out why they didn't get married?
Due to a heroes and villains being in a shared universe combined with shared comic book creators dispersed throughout the world chronicling their adventures there are always have been and always will be inconsistencies. Nature of the beast my friend.

If you think we have it bad imagine how comic creators feel. Let just assume that Gail had this long character arc planned for Black Canary and years into her penned epic, at the last minute, she's told she can't have the character anymore and has a couple issues to remove the character and have the book take a whole new direction. Worse she may not have read Brad's script and has no idea how to remove the character and make it consistent with JLA. Now that's stress.

[Matt Algren]

I said we're handling it.

So it's kind of a dumb complaint.

Gail
That's a weird response to honest criticism from a person who even acknowledged that we don't have all the pieces of this puzzle yet. Seemed to me like he was giving you a lot of leeway on this.

I mean, it's an honest question. Babs only works with women, and that's a curious situation.

Like I said, weird. Did I miss something?

[Starba]

Did I miss something?

The "Women Shouldn't Write Wonder Woman" thread, apparently...

[Matt Algren]

The "Women Shouldn't Write Wonder Woman" thread, apparently... Ah. So it's an old grudge. Gotcha.





still seems weird to me...

[Gail Simone]

That's a weird response to honest criticism from a person who even acknowledged that we don't have all the pieces of this puzzle yet. Seemed to me like he was giving you a lot of leeway on this.

I mean, it's an honest question. Babs only works with women, and that's a curious situation.

Like I said, weird. Did I miss something?


Cth's been striking me as passive aggressive for some time, is all. I'd already responded to that point, so it seems silly to try to make hay over the exact same point a few posts later.

I have a high criticism tolerance, but a low condescension tolerance.

If that makes sense.

;)

Gail

[Gail Simone]

Ah. So it's an old grudge. Gotcha.





still seems weird to me...

It's not much of a grudge. I just disagree.

Gail

[hellokittykat]

<snipped>I have a high criticism tolerance, but a low condescension tolerance.

If that makes sense.

;)

Gail

So that's why you're always covered in a dewy mist!

[Gail Simone]

So that's why you're always covered in a dewy mist!


QUIET, YOU! :)

Gail

[Cam63]

So that's why you're always covered in a dewy mist!

*Applauds damn good punning*

*Ignites cigarette lighter*

*Sips beer and ponders*

[Cam63]

I represent PETA, and demand more animals on the team.

Beepo should BOP, dammit!

I'm voting for the red belly beer swiller.

[Cam63]

(Punches Beast of Yucca Flats for no reason)

Thanks! :)

Gail, full of beans today

I hope it was on the shoulder.

...'Gibbs slap at worst.

[thespianphryne]

...

Gail, full of beans today

There's a flatulence joke just waiting to be made. I mean there's a condensation pun but...How come no one's going for the low humour today?

[hellokittykat]

There's a flatulence joke just waiting to be made. I mean there's a condensation pun but...How come no one's going for the low humour today?

We're using up our immaturity in the Civil War thread.
Annnnnd I think the sitcome thread too.

[Cam63]

It's not much of a grudge. I just disagree.

Gail

The Liverpool kiss was a worry.

[Cam63]

There's a flatulence joke just waiting to be made. I mean there's a condensation pun but...How come no one's going for the low humour today?

Flatulence is no joke, my friend.

...Many lives were lost in the Fart Wars of '83.

I WAS THERE, MAN ! I WAS FUCKIN' THERE !

[Sharpandpointies]

Does Judo even have all of those spin kicks?

However, can I make a semi complaint semi suggestion? I'd love it if Judomaster actually..........did some Judo. Why is it that whenever someone says they know Judo, they then start chopping, punching and kicking? Judoamaetur more like! ;)

I fully agree with the above.

Frankly, I haven't seen the book yet - I expect I'll get a good look when I go to the comic shop. But it doesn't sound a lot like Judo.

[Cam63]

Don't be ashamed to whack your opponent in the head with a brick.

...Just sayin'.

[Sharpandpointies]

Don't be ashamed to whack your opponent in the head with a brick.

...Just sayin'.

Well, there is that. :)

Though I would expect someone who did THAT would be called 'Brickmaster'. Not, say, 'Karatemaster' (though Karate does the brick breaking thing, I suppose).

...though they could also just be called 'Cam'....

[blackcanary_416]

(Punches John Siuntres)

Okay, here's the truth of it...I don't mind honest criticism, AND I don't much mind people who are just being particular, as Richard astutely puts it (I like Richard, but I'd still punch him just to keep him in line).

But I do have a slight advantage, in that I know where we're going. I have confidence in it. Do I miss Canary? Of course I do. She's probably my favorite of all characters, and in a way, she's been the book's Fonzie.

But I also love Babs and Helena and Zinda, and I think the character appearing on the last couple pages (I don't know if she's been mentioned already) is killer interesting, at least to me.

Eventually, I hope Dinah comes back. But in the meantime, I think what we're doing is making for some really fun stories, that are a bit more superhero-y than the book has been in the past, but are STILL very different from any other hero team out there. That's my gut feeling. And I think it's gonna be just fine, saleswise, even though that's never my first concern.

Sometimes, if a book goes out and it didn't turn out exactly how I wanted, then I worry how it will be perceived a bit. That's not really the case here. I knew that this approach would make some people sad, and we might even lose readers who have been incredibly loyal. I'll be frank--that sucks. Not because of loss of sales, but because I don't like the idea that someone who has supported the book would feel, I guess abandoned is the best word.

But lack of change is death. I don't think this book was ever meant to hold the same status quo exactly for years at a time, and we've done lots of things that the loyal readers objected to at first and in many cases, they came around, knowing that the twists were done with care and respect. People howled about Shiva being in the Birds and I don't have a week go by where a bunch of people don't ask for her to come back.

I felt the same way about Gen13. When the first issue came out, a lot of my favorite reviewers not only disliked it, they ripped it to shreds and questioned my sanity. But I strongly felt it was some of my best work, and strongly felt also that as each new issue came in, that visceral reaction might be realized for what it was: a planned event. Now issue two comes out and it's Savage Critic's Best of the Week and Wizard calls it Ballsy and Daring and almost every review is a rave. Again, critics aren't the important thing (though it's always nice when someone you respect says good things), but I had faith, and I wouldn't change anything even if given the chance.

Not that any book is perfect or that I'm such a genius, just that I have a gut feeling when a book is good vs. when it could be a lot better, and I have to trust my instincts or I end up as one of those writers who only does fanservice comics.

Bop, I don't know what to say...certainly DC could and would put me on higher selling projects, although they've been endlessly supportive of the book. I would make more money, it would sell more copies, etc. etc. But Bop is really special to me for a million reasons. It's the book that really put my name on the map, for one. It's unique and has a different appeal (and for some in the audience, it's the only superhero book they read). And, with Legion, has one of the most loyal readerships in the business. But above all, I just flipping love the characters and the set-up, that a smart woman with a computer and some friends could change the world. I find that endlessly hopeful.

So, a couple times, I've had to make the best of an editorial situation I might not have chosen, and...what can I say? After banging my head on the monitor a couple times, I kind of enjoy that challenge. We lost the clock tower, but we gained the Aerie one and some fun international stories, you know? And we got Zinda out of it, who is just a blast AND a Blackhawk. We lose the Fieri Brothers restaurant, but we gain Black Alice.

To me, this feels like that...sad to lose Dinah, at least for a while, HAPPY to have all these other great new characters parading through. Writing Manhunter and Barda, and some of the upcoming characters, while refocusing on Oracle and Huntress...that all feels fun, but it also feels right, like an important chapter in a long story. I was given the option to let BOP go (not as a bad thing, DC has offered a ton of great projects), and I thought about it, but it just didn't seem like the time to stop. There's still a lot of fun stories to tell. And I don't want anyone coming in and telling them better than me, dammit. ;)

Anyway, there are some rambling thoughts. I get the people who miss Dinah already, I do. But if you stay, we're gonna have a blast. The next arc in particular is just plain insane, the BOP vs. The Secret Six, with Oracle in the worst situation of the entire run.

That's good times. ;)

I AM NOT OFFENDED OR HURT by the honest criticism, hopefully most of you know that by now. I have faith in what's coming up and I'm sad if some of you choose to leave the party, but I totally understand. If you stick around, it's going to be one of the craziest bop years yet.

And I love that stuff. ;)

Gail

I'm glad that you are taking that direction and I don't think it would have been good at all if Canary would have stayed around and it was the same old thing every month. I'll be picking up BOP again when the Six guest star. Any way...I'll talk to you more on the chat tonight :)

[saintsaucey]

Gail...

I loved it evrything really. It's no secret i'm a new comer so getting the back ground info on dinah was pretty handy. I'm sticking around i can garentee you that. I like the idea of a rotating member ship. specific memebers choesen for specific missions with Huntress being the team leader.

im staying on this for a while gail keep up the good work

[ChthonicSpirit]

I'd already responded to that point, so it seems silly to try to make hay over the exact same point a few posts later.

Well, at the time I wasn't actually replying to you, I was replying to Starba . . .

Still, no harm done.

[Sharpandpointies]

Eventually, I hope Dinah comes back.

Okay, so maybe I missed an explanation somewhere. But I'm taking this as confirmation that:

1. You didn't want Dinah to leave, and the decision came from up top.
2. Dinah isn't coming back for the foreseeable future.

Forgive me if this was explained already. I don't read all the threads..

[Crowley]

I thoroughly enjoyed the book.

Nicola's art gets better and better. The addition of Barda excites me. She's one of the best DCU heroines and Nicola nailed her. It was also a thrill to see Nicola's first official DCU Wonder Woman (which I know she'd be dying to draw.)

Love the banter between Babs and Zinda... also liked the way Canary, Judomaster and Barda exchanged quips. And the Spy Lady seems pretty damn cool.

the back-up was nice... but I'm now hoping that this book will become Canary less... Don't get me wrong... I love BC, but her continued appearance will feel a bit like salt in the wound.

Bizzare Question:
Does Power Girl have new costume, was she mid changing... or was that just a colorist oops?

[Lester C.]

Okay, so maybe I missed an explanation somewhere. But I'm taking this as confirmation that:

1. You didn't want Dinah to leave, and the decision came from up top.
2. Dinah isn't coming back for the foreseeable future.

Forgive me if this was explained already. I don't read all the threads..
There is an unsubstantiated rumor that Meltzer wanted Dinah for the JLA and the character was forcibly removed form Birds of Prey. Key word here is unsubstantiated as the rumor has arisen out of bits and pieces of various interviews that Gail has given.

[bert]

hurm. . .

I wanted to like it more than I did, but all in all, not too shabby for a 100 issue.

My biggest complaint is that I HATED that cover. Is that Ordway?

I'm glad he's still getting work, if it is him, but goodness, that is a stiff and masculine looking Babs (yeah, you'd think I wouldn't mind a masculine looking woman) :)

anyways, I was very pleased by how much I LOVED the interior art, yep, N.Scott is *damn* good (barring that one panel w/ PeeG. . what was up w/ that angle?).

I really like the personalities of the new gals -- although I know almost nothing about Judomaster, I liked Zinda/Huntress/Manhunter(YES!), and Big Barda (YES YES!!) on the team. I'll join the chorus of "where's Gypsy?". . but overall, I didn't miss Dinah too much from the core book.

I did think it was waaaaay too much firepower for a prison rescue (did Barda really need to be undercover for that?).

the lead story? *** 1/2 out of *****. (but, nice job).

as for the back up tho?. . .bleh.

I dunno if it's because "Sin" is there (as others are saying, despite how much you want me to care about this character, I just really don't. I'd rather have seen Dinah take in Creote as an adopted son), or if the story just didn't "sound" like the BC I've come to know and love.

if I'm being honest -- and I am -- I didn't finish the back up story.

I tried. . .I really did. but I was bored with it, and quit after 3 pages of story.

that's REALLY rare for me -- heck, I usually even finish the stories I'm not interested in DC's "Solo" book.

so I dunno what was up w/ that. .but the lead story was worth it, and I can't wait to see where the Birds go next.

(hopefully w/ Gypsy in tow :) )

[thespianphryne]

Flatulence is no joke, my friend.

...Many lives were lost in the Fart Wars of '83.

I WAS THERE, MAN ! I WAS FUCKIN' THERE !

I don't mean to be out of line since I'm new and all...but are you saying you went without your gas mask, then?

[matterconsumer]

Congrads on reaching #100!

Yeah, Dinah's departure takes the sheen off the team. I'd like to give someone an earful that made that decision...and a thong upside the face!

Adding new BoPpers is fine with me and BC going over to JLA is fine as well. It's just yanking her out of BoP...bad choice!

#100 is a solid issue. The art is good and the colors are still nice and bright.

It's fun to see Big Barda. And finally more Zinda. I was beginning to wonder if she was going to ever get more than a panel.

The backup story hit quite a few emotional notes. I'm a big fan of momma bird. Good to see them together. I like Sin too. Is that irony?

[Gail Simone]

There is an unsubstantiated rumor that Meltzer wanted Dinah for the JLA and the character was forcibly removed form Birds of Prey. Key word here is unsubstantiated as the rumor has arisen out of bits and pieces of various interviews that Gail has given.


Honest to god, if that IS true, I am not aware of it.

Gail

[matterconsumer]

Honest to god, if that IS true, I am not aware of it.

Gail

Do you or who would know how BC came to leave BoP?

[matterconsumer]

and I have to say when I saw Huntress shoot the poor girl in the head that there was a moment of disbelief. Oh no she didn't! Oh yes she did!

Fortunately we were able to breathe that sigh of relief later.

[Cam63]

It was a pretty good shot too.

[Sharpandpointies]

Honest to god, if that IS true, I am not aware of it.


So do we have an answer? Or is this a company decision that shall remain unexplained? :(

[Starba]

Well, the membership of the JLA was definitely well-thought-out by SOMEBODY outside of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman...

[Lester C.]

Do you or who would know how BC came to leave BoP?


So do we have an answer? Or is this a company decision that shall remain unexplained? :(

Gail generally doesn't get into the behind the scene stuff that goes on in her books and that's a good thing. If more comic book writers and artists did the same we wouldn't have all of the very public bickering and feuds among various comic book pros that have sadly become common place and legendary in its intensity of animosity between various professionals.

[Sharpandpointies]

True.

Barring information to the contrary, someone certainly made that decision, and I doubt it was Gail.

Well, I hope they keep her new increase in skill-level as canon, and don't dump her down to 'second-fiddle who needs to be saved'. :(

[Lester C.]

True.

Barring information to the contrary, someone certainly made that decision, and I doubt it was Gail.

Well, I hope they keep her new increase in skill-level as canon, and don't dump her down to 'second-fiddle who needs to be saved'. :(
That depends on whether or not Brad is aware of that fact. Brad does prides himself on the research he does for any project so it would not surprise me if aware of all the character growth that has occurred to Dinah over the past four years or so of Gail's Bird of Prey run.

[Lester C.]

Honest to god, if that IS true, I am not aware of it.

Gail
Thank you Gail for this post. Brad Melzer is one of my favorite novelists working today and I'm so relived that he not engaging in any power plays regarding certain characters he wants for his book.

[shrike]

That depends on whether or not Brad is aware of that fact. Brad does prides himself on the research he does for any project so it would not surprise me if aware of all the character growth that has occurred to Dinah over the past four years or so of Gail's Bird of Prey run.

.. you DID read Identity Crisis, correct? :o

[shrike]

Do you or who would know how BC came to leave BoP?


I don't think we will know REALLY, ever... obviously Mike Carlin is editor of Birds of Prey now, though...

But many of us would like to know who to thank... or at the very least kick in the balls... for this dumbass decision.

[Sharpandpointies]

But many of us would like to know who to thank... or at the very least kick in the balls... for this dumbass decision.

There is that, of course. :)

[Metronome35]

I did think it was waaaaay too much firepower for a prison rescue (did Barda really need to be undercover for that?).

It might've been done for the sake of the girl's safety. If they just had Barda hammer her way through the front door and plough her way through the prison's security there's a chance the people in charge of the prison might've just offed Tabby Brennan before the Birds of Prey had the chance to save her. Tabby wasn't there truly legitimately, after all.

I don't care for the other DCU giant, Knockout, and so I'm not caring here either.
What's wrong with gigantic women then?

[Lester C.]

.. you DID read Identity Crisis, correct? :o
I was referring to his novels, and yes I did read Identity Crisis. I HATED what he did with the characters but it was well researched and thought out as he was obviously well versed in silver age lore.

[Lester C.]

I don't think we will know REALLY, ever... obviously Mike Carlin is editor of Birds of Prey now, though...

But many of us would like to know who to thank... or at the very least kick in the balls... for this dumbass decision.
I'm making a mental note never to cross Shirke.:eek:

[Metronome35]

As for the new Judomaster, I'd assume that she's probably a master of martial arts in general, and not just judo which'd explain all the kicking and smacking people in the face with rifles. Wasn't there a character in the Legion of Superheroes called "Karate Kid" who was a master of all martial arts and not just karate?

[titanfan]

It was a pretty good shot too.

Considering she had to hit some blood packet she couldn't quite see on a moving target--I'd say hell yeah! Talk about no margin for error.

[Sharpandpointies]

As for the new Judomaster, I'd assume that she's probably a master of martial arts in general, and not just judo which'd explain all the kicking and smacking people in the face with rifles. Wasn't there a character in the Legion of Superheroes called "Karate Kid" who was a master of all martial arts and not just karate?

It's just that with a name like 'Judo' master, it would be nice to see some grappling. Throws, locks, chokes, that sort of thing.

[Lester C.]

It's just that with a name like 'Judo' master, it would be nice to see some grappling. Throws, locks, chokes, that sort of thing.
Then shouldn't she be Jujitsu master rather than Judo.

[Gail Simone]

Considering she had to hit some blood packet she couldn't quite see on a moving target--I'd say hell yeah! Talk about no margin for error.

Or she could have just shot at the air NEAR Tabby's head and the squib was detonated via remote.

;)

Gail

[Dedagda]

Or she could have just shot at the air NEAR Tabby's head and the squib was detonated via remote.

Gail


I had Squib once. It was kind of saucy.

[thespianphryne]

Considering she had to hit some blood packet she couldn't quite see on a moving target--I'd say hell yeah! Talk about no margin for error.

Well, high budget bullet-hit squibs are generally electronically detonated.

The thing I wondered about, was exactly how distracted the young woman in question was that she didn't notice a squib being placed on the back of the head. For a noticeable efffect like that it ought to have been the size of pierogi.

[MrSuslov]

What's wrong with gigantic women then?
Just not fond of 'em, for whatever reason. Heck, I didn't even like Giganta back in the SuperFriends days, although that's probably a separate issue. It may be something to do with "Suslov doesn't care for giant alien warrior women", which would tend to explain both of them, if I'm not mistaken. Lump in there Bela and Gnea from the old Eternity Robotech II: The Sentinels, too. That may have been the start of it.

My lack of interest in the character of Big Barda is contributing heavily to my distinct sense of unease and forboding for the next several issues of the Birds, although this can be offset with More Zinda.

[MrSuslov]

Or she could have just shot at the air NEAR Tabby's head and the squib was detonated via remote.
That was a clever little thing you pulled. I was surprised by it.

[Sharpandpointies]

Then shouldn't she be Jujitsu master rather than Judo.

Actually, there's more grappling in standard Judo than in Japanese Jujitsu. JJJ incorporates strikes. Quite a bit, in fact.

Judo is nothing BUT grappling. Including throws, sweeps, holds, locks, and chokes.

Brazillian Jujitsu, on the other hand....

[titanfan]

Or she could have just shot at the air NEAR Tabby's head and the squib was detonated via remote.

Aha! Not that I minded Huntress making the unbelievable shot, but that makes much more sense! :)

[Paploo the Ewok]

Just got mine today, and yay, Dr.Light :) I also really liked Barda, and the involvement of a member of Checkmate in it all. The 2nd story, with Dinah and Sin was great too. A fun anniversary issue, and a good start to a new storyline.

[Lex]

I loved this issue. Ever since back in the Dixon era, I've felt that this book should be a showcase of DC's great underused female characters. So I believe this is a great new direction for the title. I loved seeing Manhunter and Barda join the team and I'm excited at the possibilities of who we'll see next. I loved the cameos of Skyrocket and Janissary and I hope we'll see them on a mission or two.

The story was good, with several twists and turns that I didn't see coming. The use of Kate was great and Gail handles her well (and it got me really excited for her book's return next month). And Barda, like all of her appearances, was fun. I didn't get much of a feel for this new Judomaster, but she seems cool.

And I liked the back-up story. I like Sin and she plays well off of Dinah.

So, all in all, this was a great issue and a great new direction for the book. I'm looking forward to future issues.

[LtMarvel]

A fun story. But what made my day was...Spy Smasher!!!!

Thankyouthankyouthankyou!

[Crowley]

Just not fond of 'em, for whatever reason. Heck, I didn't even like Giganta back in the SuperFriends days, although that's probably a separate issue. It may be something to do with "Suslov doesn't care for giant alien warrior women", which would tend to explain both of them, if I'm not mistaken. Lump in there Bela and Gnea from the old Eternity Robotech II: The Sentinels, too. That may have been the start of it.

My lack of interest in the character of Big Barda is contributing heavily to my distinct sense of unease and forboding for the next several issues of the Birds, although this can be offset with More Zinda.
hmmm... interesting. You also noted in your first post that Power Girl looked too masculine. I would disagree on all counts, but of course I think this just reflects your personal preference.

So I have to ask... can you describe exactly what bugs you about them?
are they threatening in a manner to you?

[milly3cat]

Dr Light seemed a bit rude to her workmates, is she not friendly ???? :confused:
I have never seen her in a comic before. The only Dr Light I know is the rapest male one.... :confused:

[Gail Simone]

I had Squib once. It was kind of saucy.


That's just how I describe you to friends!

Gail

[Cam63]

I had squib once. It was kind of saucy.

That's just how I describe you to friends!

Gail

" Squib " or " saucy ? "

[DungeonmasterJim]

I just got my copy of #100 and I liked it. It was worth the money I paid for it.

I was happy with Nicola Scoot's art. I had first seen her on an Image comic that I can't recall the name of right now and I thought her art was decent. I don't know if she had more time, or zeal, or a better inker or what but I enjoyed her art much more this time around as opposed to the Image comic.

I pretty much buy only Marvel comics unless I go where certain creators go so most of these characters now in the book are completely blank slates for me. Makes it kind of neat for me as in new and fresh. Although I do like continuity in comics, when there's 30 to 50 years worth involved it tends to get me bogged down.

DM Jim - ignorance is bliss!

[Cam63]

I haven't recieved my copy of #100 yet, but what I've seen of Nicola's art has impressed me.

I hope she sticks around.

[Michael P]

So, I guess I'll never know who came up with the Zinda kiss bit. :(

[Cam63]

Zinda ?
-----

[Michael P]

Zinda ?
-----
Y'know, Lady Blackhawk? The panel that looked like this:

http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/images/nykiss.jpg

[Cam63]

Y'know, Lady Blackhawk? The panel that looked like this:

http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/images/nykiss.jpg

I meant it was Zinda's idea.

Oy !

[areacode212]

Great issue, and I hope that we eventually get to see some of Manhunter's rich supporting cast interact with her BoP teammates.

I'm also hoping that Bulleteer joins the team...I'd rather see her in BoP than Big Barda, actually (nothing against Barda, but I find her a little out of place in BoP). Also, I was just reading the Seven Soldiers wrap-up (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/7Soldiers/7Soldierswrap_Morrison.html) at Newsarama, and I was a little sad when GM says, "She's found her way into the regular DCU as a kind of cipher who crops up when writers need a 'lame' hero to stand around in crowd scenes." Bulleteer for the BoP!

[ChthonicSpirit]

I have never seen her in a comic before. The only Dr Light I know is the rapest male one.... :confused:

This one is Kimiyo Hoshi, physicist. Granted 'starlight' powers by the Monitor during the original Crisis on Infinite Earths. Good, though underused character.

The only problem is, in her last appearance the original Dr. Light has sucked all the power out of her and left her in a coma. Here she is fine, and since Oracle is trying to recruit her, I assume she has her powers back. No mention of how or when this happened. OYL as deus ex machina. Bleah.

[Lester C.]

This one is Kimiyo Hoshi, physicist. Granted 'starlight' powers by the Monitor during the original Crisis on Infinite Earths. Good, though underused character.

The only problem is, in her last appearance the original Dr. Light has sucked all the power out of her and left her in a coma. Here she is fine, and since Oracle is trying to recruit her, I assume she has her powers back. No mention of how or when this happened. OYL as deus ex machina. Bleah.
It's possible that Gail missed that issue of Green Arrow. I don't think DC or Marvel has a cheat sheet for their writers.

[Super Sonic]

This one is Kimiyo Hoshi, physicist. Granted 'starlight' powers by the Monitor during the original Crisis on Infinite Earths. Good, though underused character.

The only problem is, in her last appearance the original Dr. Light has sucked all the power out of her and left her in a coma. Here she is fine, and since Oracle is trying to recruit her, I assume she has her powers back. No mention of how or when this happened. OYL as deus ex machina. Bleah.

Actually, it was in Infinite Crisis she first just appeared with powers, while she was supposed to be in a coma.

It seems that issue of Green Arrow was ret-conned, and fast.

[Cam63]

Nice to hear from you, Irish.

We thought you were dead or living in Adelaide.

[ChthonicSpirit]

Actually, it was in Infinite Crisis she first just appeared with powers, while she was supposed to be in a coma.

It seems that issue of Green Arrow was ret-conned, and fast.
Nope. At the time, Winick confirmed that her appearance in GA happened after her appearance in IC.

[Metronome35]

Dr Light seemed a bit rude to her workmates, is she not friendly ???? :confused:
I have never seen her in a comic before. The only Dr Light I know is the rapest male one.... :confused:
Just about the only comic where I've actually seen the female Doctor Light was Crisis on Infinite Earths the story that she debuted in. In that, she was indeed abrasive towards her co-workers, even her own father but by the end of the story it seemed like she was starting to soften. I don't know much about how her personality developed since then, maybe I should get off my lazy arse and check wikipedia.

There's something I forgot to ask about earlier, who is that wee red-haired masked girl that you see smiling behind Oracle on the page where Barda first reaches into the cell? Anyone know who it is, or what she's doing hanging around the Birds' headquarters?

[PatrickG]

Nope. At the time, Winick confirmed that her appearance in GA happened after her appearance in IC.

Yeah. But I honestly think DC got confused when she appeared with her powers in the OYL SUPERMAN and Winnick's story became difficult to place post-IC given the events of 52.

Winnick may maintain it happened but it doesn't have a reasonable place to fit now that other writers on four separate books have apparently fenced in or contradicted his story into a place that's VERY hard to reconcile.

She had powers before the echo effect, during IC, after IC, before Ollie was mayor and after 52.

So whether or not the story happened, the consequences seem pretty moot.

[Cam63]

Yeah. But I honestly think DC got confused when she appeared with her powers in the OYL SUPERMAN and Winnick's story became difficult to place post-IC given the events of 52.

Winnick may maintain it happened but it doesn't have a reasonable place to fit now that other writers on four separate books have apparently fenced in or contradicted his story into a place that's VERY hard to reconcile.

She had powers before the echo effect, during IC, after IC, before Ollie was mayor and after 52.

So whether or not the story happened, the consequences seem pretty moot.

How can you tell ?

You most certainly weren't there. :D

[Michael P]

I, for one, have no problem with DC ignoring the whole depowering on Dr. Hoshi's part. The universe could use a lot more Dr. Light and a lot less Dr. Rape.

[ChthonicSpirit]

I, for one, have no problem with DC ignoring the whole depowering on Dr. Hoshi's part. The universe could use a lot more Dr. Light and a lot less Dr. Rape.

I know. I wasn't objecting to her getting her powers back, but it seems . . insulting. Insult added to the original injury.

After DC tells us we have to deal with some dumb-shit story, after we've swallowed all the resultant bile, for them to turn around and say "no, that just didn't happen" feels like another slap in the face. Why write it in the first place, if they retcon it so easily? IC was supposed to have been their great, climactic reboot, but they are already backpedalling.

[Dedagda]

That's just how I describe you to friends!

Gail

Aw see...now you're just being sassy

Sassy and Saucy the Squib Sisters!

+++
Alit a little alliteration

[Brian Cronin]

Dr. Light has been mentioned OYL before.

The impression I got from that other appearance combined with this one is that some time during the missing year, she got her powers back and came back quite angry - and got her revenge on the evil Dr. Light - and that is why she is back to her original mean personality, because the effect of Dr. Light stealing her powers totally affected her, personality-wise. She had softened, and, in her mind, softening resulted in being violated - so she is soft no more.

Where this will be explained, though, is the question - as 52 is running down pretty quickly without her appearing yet.

-Brian

[shrike]

Dr. Light has been mentioned OYL before.

The impression I got from that other appearance combined with this one is that some time during the missing year, she got her powers back and came back quite angry - and got her revenge on the evil Dr. Light - and that is why she is back to her original mean personality, because the effect of Dr. Light stealing her powers totally affected her, personality-wise. She had softened, and, in her mind, softening resulted in being violated - so she is soft no more.

Where this will be explained, though, is the question - as 52 is running down pretty quickly without her appearing yet.

-Brian

Actually I thought this too... and the small comment in JLA #1... I think it was #1... was interesting.

[Tobey Cook]

Ah, Lester, no one likes to lose a reader. We'll see what happens.

But those who stick are gonna have a lot of fun.

Gail

Hey, you're not losing me, at least. While I'm not sure about the lineup (new Judomaster, Barda, Manhunter?), you've always shown you can make the most unlikely of teams work together and find a common ground.

I'll give it a few more issues. If I know your writing, there's definitely something more to this grouping than meets the eye and they all are on the team for a reason.

[Brian Cronin]

Actually I thought this too... and the small comment in JLA #1... I think it was #1... was interesting.

THAT's the other mention I was thinking about.

Thanks.

-Brian

[Michael P]

Dr. Light has been mentioned OYL before.

The impression I got from that other appearance combined with this one is that some time during the missing year, she got her powers back and came back quite angry - and got her revenge on the evil Dr. Light - and that is why she is back to her original mean personality, because the effect of Dr. Light stealing her powers totally affected her, personality-wise. She had softened, and, in her mind, softening resulted in being violated - so she is soft no more.

Where this will be explained, though, is the question - as 52 is running down pretty quickly without her appearing yet.

-Brian
Far as I'm concerned, they don't need to explain it. The original bit was a prime target for ret-Vaughaning.

(There. I made up a new Internet word.)

[Night Swordsman]

(Punches John Siuntres)

Okay, here's the truth of it...I don't mind honest criticism, AND I don't much mind people who are just being particular, as Richard astutely puts it (I like Richard, but I'd still punch him just to keep him in line).

But I do have a slight advantage, in that I know where we're going. I have confidence in it. Do I miss Canary? Of course I do. She's probably my favorite of all characters, and in a way, she's been the book's Fonzie.

But I also love Babs and Helena and Zinda, and I think the character appearing on the last couple pages (I don't know if she's been mentioned already) is killer interesting, at least to me.

Eventually, I hope Dinah comes back. But in the meantime, I think what we're doing is making for some really fun stories, that are a bit more superhero-y than the book has been in the past, but are STILL very different from any other hero team out there. That's my gut feeling. And I think it's gonna be just fine, saleswise, even though that's never my first concern.

Sometimes, if a book goes out and it didn't turn out exactly how I wanted, then I worry how it will be perceived a bit. That's not really the case here. I knew that this approach would make some people sad, and we might even lose readers who have been incredibly loyal. I'll be frank--that sucks. Not because of loss of sales, but because I don't like the idea that someone who has supported the book would feel, I guess abandoned is the best word.

But lack of change is death. I don't think this book was ever meant to hold the same status quo exactly for years at a time, and we've done lots of things that the loyal readers objected to at first and in many cases, they came around, knowing that the twists were done with care and respect. People howled about Shiva being in the Birds and I don't have a week go by where a bunch of people don't ask for her to come back.

I felt the same way about Gen13. When the first issue came out, a lot of my favorite reviewers not only disliked it, they ripped it to shreds and questioned my sanity. But I strongly felt it was some of my best work, and strongly felt also that as each new issue came in, that visceral reaction might be realized for what it was: a planned event. Now issue two comes out and it's Savage Critic's Best of the Week and Wizard calls it Ballsy and Daring and almost every review is a rave. Again, critics aren't the important thing (though it's always nice when someone you respect says good things), but I had faith, and I wouldn't change anything even if given the chance.

Not that any book is perfect or that I'm such a genius, just that I have a gut feeling when a book is good vs. when it could be a lot better, and I have to trust my instincts or I end up as one of those writers who only does fanservice comics.

Bop, I don't know what to say...certainly DC could and would put me on higher selling projects, although they've been endlessly supportive of the book. I would make more money, it would sell more copies, etc. etc. But Bop is really special to me for a million reasons. It's the book that really put my name on the map, for one. It's unique and has a different appeal (and for some in the audience, it's the only superhero book they read). And, with Legion, has one of the most loyal readerships in the business. But above all, I just flipping love the characters and the set-up, that a smart woman with a computer and some friends could change the world. I find that endlessly hopeful.

So, a couple times, I've had to make the best of an editorial situation I might not have chosen, and...what can I say? After banging my head on the monitor a couple times, I kind of enjoy that challenge. We lost the clock tower, but we gained the Aerie one and some fun international stories, you know? And we got Zinda out of it, who is just a blast AND a Blackhawk. We lose the Fieri Brothers restaurant, but we gain Black Alice.

To me, this feels like that...sad to lose Dinah, at least for a while, HAPPY to have all these other great new characters parading through. Writing Manhunter and Barda, and some of the upcoming characters, while refocusing on Oracle and Huntress...that all feels fun, but it also feels right, like an important chapter in a long story. I was given the option to let BOP go (not as a bad thing, DC has offered a ton of great projects), and I thought about it, but it just didn't seem like the time to stop. There's still a lot of fun stories to tell. And I don't want anyone coming in and telling them better than me, dammit. ;)

Anyway, there are some rambling thoughts. I get the people who miss Dinah already, I do. But if you stay, we're gonna have a blast. The next arc in particular is just plain insane, the BOP vs. The Secret Six, with Oracle in the worst situation of the entire run.

That's good times. ;)

I AM NOT OFFENDED OR HURT by the honest criticism, hopefully most of you know that by now. I have faith in what's coming up and I'm sad if some of you choose to leave the party, but I totally understand. If you stick around, it's going to be one of the craziest bop years yet.

And I love that stuff. ;)

Gail

And this is why i TRUST Gail,and will ALWAYS give her the benefit of the doubt and try her books. Just read Killer Princesses and was ALOT of fun.
And i am REALLY psyched about Tranquility(loved the set-up piece in WorldStorm),but i am wondering if anyone has of yet compared that to Sci-Fi's tv show Eureka,as both have the same set-up(even in the same general area too)? I really have come to love that show,so i am hopeful i will have the same feelings for the book to,and what i read of it so far has exceeded my expectations.
Gen13? Issue 2 was better than Issue 1. This is good. If this is a trend,by Issue 12 the Book will easily be in top ten,and i buy ALOT of books.

[sk716]

Finally got my grubby little hands on a copy of #100.

The main story was good. A nice set up, lot's of cameos and a great little double take moment when Huntress detonates the squib. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. The art is nice, but for some reason, I think Babs should always be drawn by Benes.

I hated the back up story. And it's not Gail's fault. I hate the editorially mandated reconciliation of Ollie and Dinah. I hate the editorially mandated removal of Dinah from the writer who turned her into a hero in her own right. And most of all, I hate that the guy who retroactively raped Sue Dibney, turned Jean Loring into a psycho, and wrote most of the JLA completely out of character, is now going to be writing Dinah.

[Lester C.]

Finally got my grubby little hands on a copy of #100.

The main story was good. A nice set up, lot's of cameos and a great little double take moment when Huntress detonates the squib. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. The art is nice, but for some reason, I think Babs should always be drawn by Benes.

I hated the back up story. And it's not Gail's fault. I hate the editorially mandated reconciliation of Ollie and Dinah. I hate the editorially mandated removal of Dinah from the writer who turned her into a hero in her own right. And most of all, I hate that the guy who retroactively raped Sue Dibney, turned Jean Loring into a psycho, and wrote most of the JLA completely out of character, is now going to be writing Dinah.
For a comic book writer he's one hell of a novelist. I just finished his latest The Book of Fate and I want to be just like Nico when I grow up.

[Night Swordsman]

Finally got my grubby little hands on a copy of #100.

The main story was good. A nice set up, lot's of cameos and a great little double take moment when Huntress detonates the squib. I'm looking forward to seeing where it goes. The art is nice, but for some reason, I think Babs should always be drawn by Benes.

I hated the back up story. And it's not Gail's fault. I hate the editorially mandated reconciliation of Ollie and Dinah. I hate the editorially mandated removal of Dinah from the writer who turned her into a hero in her own right. And most of all, I hate that the guy who retroactively raped Sue Dibney, turned Jean Loring into a psycho, and wrote most of the JLA completely out of character, is now going to be writing Dinah.

I am not thrilled with this version either,as frankly i would just LIKE to see another Big Guns JLA again(which i DO believe Dinah deserves a spot),but i am worried about the book so far.

Weird...I expected to like this story alot more and Action comic with Johns and Donner to be less,and it turned out the reverse.

[Lester C.]

I'm sorry Dinah going back to Green Arrow puts her emotionally back at the point when Savant and Creote and crippled her and held her hostage. I love Ollie but c'mon just how bad is your self-esteem when you go back to the bastards that cheated on you with every permeation species of female that exists in the DCU. This basically wipes out the past four or five years of her character development.

[ChthonicSpirit]

This basically wipes out the past four or five years of her character development.

Agreed. Plus, without the need for any real profound reasoning, I just hate the guy. :(

[Damo]

Much to love, few quick things, more later...

Much prefered Judomaster II's garb. It worked in some of Judomaster I's design but actually looked...um... Judoish. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/Judomaster2.jpg

As for those curious about Peegee's hangup with Oracle, here's some abridged info: http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q87/64oz_soda/oraclepg/BOP_42_pg12.jpg

Then some stuff with Power Girl noting that if politician woman dies, the whole region goes to war. Then...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q87/64oz_soda/oraclepg/BOP_42_pg15.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q87/64oz_soda/oraclepg/BOP_42_pg16.jpg

Oh shi...

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q87/64oz_soda/oraclepg/BOP_42_pg17.jpg

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q87/64oz_soda/oraclepg/BOP_42_pg18.jpg

Lose-lose situation. I don't blame either of them, there was no right call to be made.

[d newton]

I hated the back up story. I hate the editorially mandated reconciliation of Ollie and Dinah. I hate the editorially mandated removal of Dinah from the writer who turned her into a hero in her own right. And most of all, I hate that the guy who retroactively raped Sue Dibney, turned Jean Loring into a psycho, and wrote most of the JLA completely out of character, is now going to be writing Dinah.

But c'mon just how bad is your self-esteem when you go back to the idiots that cheated on you with every permeation species of female that exists in the DCU. This basically wipes out the past four or five years of her character development.
I dislike posts like this! :(

[ChthonicSpirit]

I dislike posts which bash writers for no appearent reason! :(

I dunno about Lester or sk716, but I was bashing a character. That count?

[Lester C.]

I dislike posts like this! :(
I need more information as to why you disliked my post If I am to properly address your comments. If it makes you feel better I was taking exception with her characterization and was no way engaging in a personal attack on the writers, artists, etc.

[Cam63]

I'm still waiting for Yogo to get shot again and for " Scream Girl/Gurl " to be used in dialogue.

[ChthonicSpirit]

I'm still waiting for Yogo to get shot again and for " Scream Girl/Gurl " to be used in dialogue.

If Yogo needs to be shot again, can I do it?

[Cam63]

That would take one sizable bribe.

[Corrina]

Begin Winick rant:

Oliver Queen never cheated on Dinah Lance until Winick wrote him.

Ollie and Dinah had long-standing problems caused by a number of factors, one of which was her infertility, one of which was his general self-centeredness, and another which was caused by her worry she had no life of her own. Now, at the time, Ollie did kiss another