The Legend of Zelda - Twilight Princess [Archive]

Novaya Havoc

11-15-2006, 06:44 PM

It's Zelda. It will always get good ratings so as not to piss off the legion of nostalgiacs who would fire-bomb the headquarters of any publication who says otherwise.

Zelda hasn't been good for me outside of a handheld for a looooong time. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask were both horrendous. Wind Waker was much better.

I'm off the Zelda train. Not until they, you know, have actual character development in a title. Just seeing the Master Sword and Triforce isn't enough to make me cream myself like most fanboys.

Mike Pothier

11-15-2006, 06:58 PM

Right. Because all the gaming publications and journalists care so much about pissing off a few fanboys and getting some hatemail.

Whether or not you like Zelda is your prerogative, but to imply that it only gets high scores just to stave off some group of fanboys is a pretty stupid comment.

Novaya Havoc

11-15-2006, 07:13 PM

Right. Because all the gaming publications and journalists care so much about pissing off a few fanboys and getting some hatemail.

Uh, pretty much. Unless a game is totally nuclear (or a shoddy spin-off title), a big-name franchise is NOT going to get a moderate-to-low score. Journalism is a fickle thing. 9.8? And Ocarina of Time is supposedly "the best game of all time." Bullocks. All big franchises get very positive scores unless they go totally down the crapper.

It's not the fanboys, but also the companies and their size. Do you really think that a game mag is going to give Nintendo's flagship title a moderate score? Bet your eyes they won't. They also will be kind to Konami and Square-Enix. It's that simple.

Mike Pothier

11-15-2006, 08:00 PM

Look up Supermario Sunshine or Mario Kart: Double Dash on gamespot.

Big games have recieved lower than average scores when they deserved it. Like I said, if you don't like Ocarina of Time, thats your business. I'm not gonna fault you on personal taste. But it recieved high scores for good reason. It was a very, very well made game.

blackdragon6

11-15-2006, 08:29 PM

Uh, pretty much. Unless a game is totally nuclear (or a shoddy spin-off title), a big-name franchise is NOT going to get a moderate-to-low score. Journalism is a fickle thing. 9.8? And Ocarina of Time is supposedly "the best game of all time." Bullocks. All big franchises get very positive scores unless they go totally down the crapper.

It's not the fanboys, but also the companies and their size. Do you really think that a game mag is going to give Nintendo's flagship title a moderate score? Bet your eyes they won't. They also will be kind to Konami and Square-Enix. It's that simple.if only i was a moderator....

Atom_basher

11-15-2006, 10:27 PM

if only i was a moderator....

couldn't agree more.

anyone who thinks any Zelda game is bad is disillusion, I'm not saying everyone HAS to like the games, but to think they are bad is silly.

But it recieved high scores for good reason. It was a very, very well made game.

Id (personally) go as far as to say OOT is probably the best game ever made

Mike Pothier

11-15-2006, 10:51 PM

Well, best game ever is getting into the realm of personal opinion, which I was trying to avoid. Whether or not one likes a game, they can recognize at least how well its made.

Example: I hate the Gran Turismo, but I realize its a very good racing sim.

Atom_basher

11-15-2006, 11:03 PM

Well, best game ever is getting into the realm of personal opinion,

hence me using "(personally)"

Mike Pothier

11-15-2006, 11:04 PM

Ahhh... I gotta stop speed reading.

Black Atom

11-15-2006, 11:26 PM

Well, if Novaya's looking for more character-oriented stuff, then Zelda doesn't really deliver a whole lot, that's a valid argument. And frankly, the older Zelda games are waaaay too hyped-up--OOT and LTTP do NOT live up to their crazy hype (Alundra for the PS1, despite being a rip-off blows LTTP out of the water). But it has been a uniquely consistent series for the most part, so it's not quite fair to say that's all name recognition.

If I remember though, Majora's Mask wasn't universally praised. It's the "one-per-gen" rule.

Nyssane

11-15-2006, 11:38 PM

It is true -- a game is going to get a good score if it's a major named title like Zelda or Mario simply because it is a part of a franchise. I personally didn't like Ocarina of Time that much, and can't honestly find what is so appealing about it. But, fanboys crap their pants every time a new game is released that features their favorite mascot.

Atom_basher

11-16-2006, 12:08 AM

thats NOT true, i seem to remember mario kart double dash and Metroid prime echoes getting lower scores

Fish Sauce

11-16-2006, 01:28 AM

What was wrong with Ocarina of Time? That game was fantastic.

I was no Zelda "fanboy" - that game freaking made me one.

Alex

11-16-2006, 02:42 AM

ready for a "I;m pissed at Gamespot" Post?
My girlfriend hinted, not to subtely, that she preordered me a Wii, and was getting it for my birthday.
She assumed, im not sure how, that it came with Zelda. I informed her it didn't, so we went to gamestop to reserve it.
"We're out of preorders....for wii and gamecube, we're actually out of orders for wii consoles too"
Ok, thats cool, theres 27 other game stores in town. But, the three in between gamestop and the next gamestop is a store owned by a dick, a toys r us, and a bestbuy.
So i went to next gamestop, same thing. How do you run out of preorders on a system that is shipping 4 million units? And the most popular game at it's launch. Finaly, the third gamestop, told me i could come in sunday and be pretty much guarentted a copy, because theres no way everyone who preordered it would pick it up.
....
I swear to god if there are shortages, im killing nintendo.

blackdragon6

11-16-2006, 07:03 AM

i'll probably get a wii & zelda after thanksgiving.

Lester C.

11-16-2006, 08:04 AM

Wasn't this suppose to be on Gamecube?

Fish Sauce

11-16-2006, 08:12 AM

Wasn't this suppose to be on Gamecube?

It's coming out on both systems.

Novaya Havoc

11-16-2006, 08:26 AM

What was wrong with Ocarina of Time? That game was fantastic.

It layed the foundation of making the hybrid that is Legend of Zelda + Tomb Raider. It became more puzzle-focused and platformy rather than about adventure and exploration.

The game was one giant empty field serving as the nexus points between the varied "worlds" (areas of Hyrule): Desert World, Water World, Mountain World, Imperial World, Rural Village World, Forest World. And ne'er shall the two mix.

Z-Targeting and the fairy were very hit-n-miss.

3D graphics, I felt, did not complement gameplay. It would have been better if it were 3D character renders on 2D backgrounds.

Still no character development, and lots of annoying plot holes in the paper thin story (e.g.: "Why does beating Ganon in the future somehow save the past?" Time travel was done much better in Final Fantasy VIII, for example.)

----

IMO, it made the jump to 3D way too fast and the results were pretty weak. It wasn't as clean as Mario 64 and wasn't really perfected until Wind Waker, which had a giant area to truly explore, targeting was simple and clean, and the graphics complemented gameplay.

Ocarina of Time had a lot of problems, and sucked a lot of fun out of the franchise. I honestly think Twilight Princess will be a good game (my b/f won't shut up about it), but Zelda has lacked true innovation for some time.

thehod

11-16-2006, 08:40 AM

Personally i prefered Wind Waker to OOT, but that's probably down to me playing Wind Waker first. (I got OOT as a bonus disc)

I can see that OOT is a good game and worthy of the scores it got, but personally there are other Zeldas I prefer.

However I think Novaya does have a point with some of the big titles. Pro Evolution Soccer has done basically nothing in the last four years and has had gameplay glitches that lesser titles would've been chewed out for, but because its Pro Evo, the magazines love it and 90%+ scores ensue.

Fish Sauce

11-16-2006, 08:42 AM

Fair enough, at least you have reasons. For me, the N64 was my first console and before that I had played Mario, Diddy Kong Racing and a couple of other games. Zelda was the most awesome thing I had ever seen, and nothing can change that for me, I guess.

Black Atom

11-16-2006, 09:55 AM

Mike Pothier

11-16-2006, 10:20 AM

It layed the foundation of making the hybrid that is Legend of Zelda + Tomb Raider. It became more puzzle-focused and platformy rather than about adventure and exploration.

The game was one giant empty field serving as the nexus points between the varied "worlds" (areas of Hyrule): Desert World, Water World, Mountain World, Imperial World, Rural Village World, Forest World. And ne'er shall the two mix.

Z-Targeting and the fairy were very hit-n-miss.

3D graphics, I felt, did not complement gameplay. It would have been better if it were 3D character renders on 2D backgrounds.

Still no character development, and lots of annoying plot holes in the paper thin story (e.g.: "Why does beating Ganon in the future somehow save the past?" Time travel was done much better in Final Fantasy VIII, for example.)

----

IMO, it made the jump to 3D way too fast and the results were pretty weak. It wasn't as clean as Mario 64 and wasn't really perfected until Wind Waker, which had a giant area to truly explore, targeting was simple and clean, and the graphics complemented gameplay.

Ocarina of Time had a lot of problems, and sucked a lot of fun out of the franchise. I honestly think Twilight Princess will be a good game (my b/f won't shut up about it), but Zelda has lacked true innovation for some time.

See, you are giving personal reasons, which is a valid thing to do. I could take issue with a few of them, but I wouldn't be changing your mind, so there is no point.

Now all you have to do is prove that all the reviewers give Zelda a high score because they are afraid of a negative reaction from a couple hundred fanboys.

Mike Pothier

11-16-2006, 10:27 AM

I will say one thing about Zelda and its story: Why does it have to have some epic, Final Fantasy-esque plot? Its a fairy tale. Its there to get us from one dungeon to the next.

Personally, I think plot and storylines are the most overrated parts of gaming today. Its like every game needs some epic story behind it. Sometimes, I just want to play a really well made game. I've gotten tired of long-long games with twists every five minutes. I've practically given up on Final Fantasy, and sometimes I just outright skip some scenes in Metal Gear Solid because I want to play the game, not watch it.

And the story in Zelda isn't that bad. Just because tends to have the same basic outline (Link appears, goes to several dungeons, kills Ganon, saves Zelda) doesn't mean every Zelda is the same plot.

Magneto Rocks

11-16-2006, 10:57 AM

I'm gonna go with the legion of "I wasn't a Zelda fanboy then I played OoT" group.

As in, I wasn't a zelda fanboy and having played OoT, which I also consider the best game ever to date, I am now a full-on Nintendo freak ;)

The Drunkard Kid

11-16-2006, 11:06 AM

Honestly, I liked Majora's Mask the best out of all the Zelda games, despite the plot holes. The gameplay and graphics of OoT (though WW had better combat and graphics, there just weren't enough battles, IMO), actually difficult dungeons, the mask system, and tons of fun extras and sidequests. Saving cows from the aliens owns your souls, though the final fight in Wind Waker is the best thing ever.

But when people say that OoT is the best game ever, just roll my eyes; of course, I do the same thing when people say that about almost any game, especially FFVII, but that's a different story...

Novaya Havoc

11-16-2006, 12:03 PM

I will say one thing about Zelda and its story: Why does it have to have some epic, Final Fantasy-esque plot? Its a fairy tale. Its there to get us from one dungeon to the next.

Fine and fair. The problem is when Zelda fanboys constantly compare it to story-driven games as being the definitive action/adventure/RPG, much less "best game of all time."

For me, Zelda ranks little higher (or less) than Tomb Raider in several ways: platforming, puzzle-based dungeons, character development. It's a fine fantasy/adventure game, and doesn't need an epic plot. But that makes the game decidedly less epic. It's no more epic than, say, Tomb Raider II with Lara traipsing from China, to Venice, to the depths of the sea, to the Himalayas -- all in one adventure. But I won't say these stories have much of a plot, and I wouldn't call Tomb Raider an epic adventure that is one of the best games ever.

Same for Zelda. It's a weak franchise, held up by nostalgiacs who will buy it over and over, despite little growth to the overall series. That's fine. But don't call it innovative.

Agent Helix

11-16-2006, 12:05 PM

You could say the same about Final Fantasy.

Novaya Havoc

11-16-2006, 12:12 PM

You could say the same about Final Fantasy.

No, you can't. Final Fantasy has always been story-driven and Square has been on the cutting edge for character-driven RPGs.

Characters are different, stories are different, gameplay is different, locations are different from installment to installment. Yes, it keeps consistent character archetypes and similar story elements (usually rebellion against empire), but they always transform and change shape as the plot progresses.

These same archetypes are found in several other RPGs as well, like Skies of Arcadia on the Dreamcast.

There is never any change in Link from beginning of story to end. Never any change in Zelda. Never any change for Ganon. There are changes between installments, but not in-game.

Agent Helix

11-16-2006, 12:15 PM

How have there been significant changes to Final Fantasy since VII? And how was VII a significant change beyond just going with 3D graphics instead of 2D? The changes to the combat system are all superficial, it's still the same basic attack/heal/summon snorefest it's been for years. Except now in 12, you apparently don't even need the controller anymore, since the PS2 does all the hard work of pushing buttons for you.

Crying about lack of innovation in one franchise and then blatantly ignoring it in another because of bias is a poor way to formulate an argument.

Most games have formulas, and keep those formulas because they work. It's what keeps fans of the franchises happy, and keeps them buying new games.

Mike Pothier

11-16-2006, 01:12 PM

Same for Zelda. It's a weak franchise, held up by nostalgiacs who will buy it over and over, despite little growth to the overall series. That's fine. But don't call it innovative.

Little growth? There has been massive growth. OoT was the game that introduced lock on targeting, and the 3D environments were a huge step forward in action/adventure gaming.

Since then, the growth has been mostly in refinement. The controls have gotten more responsive and tight. The levels have shown increasing ingenuity. And each new Zelda game has gotten more character growth. Now, I know its not as much as you want, certainly not Final Fantasy level, but Wind Waker was by far the most story driven Zelda in the franchise, and easily the darkest, despite the so-called "kiddy" graphics.

Honestly, I think you are just blinded if you can't see the massive growth Zelda has taken since Zelda 1.

Xero Kaiser

11-16-2006, 02:51 PM

It layed the foundation of making the hybrid that is Legend of Zelda + Tomb Raider. It became more puzzle-focused and platformy rather than about adventure and exploration.

When were Zelda games ever not puzzle-focused? How was it "platformy" when you almost never had to jump or deal with platforms? Even when you did, the game took care of it automatically

Z-Targeting and the fairy were very hit-n-miss.

How? Z-targeting worked perfectly

3D graphics, I felt, did not complement gameplay. It would have been better if it were 3D character renders on 2D backgrounds.

I can't even wrap my head around that logic. How would that make the game better?

BlairH

11-16-2006, 03:42 PM

so far...got a 98% total at gamerankings.com.this game isn't out yet and its already getting a massive blow job.
Does this mean there are review copies floating around?

Or is it just a bunch of over-zealous fanatics "reviewing" the game before they even have a chance to play it?

Mike Pothier

11-16-2006, 03:54 PM

Does this mean there are review copies floating around?

Or is it just a bunch of over-zealous fanatics "reviewing" the game before they even have a chance to play it?

Most major gaming journalist (IGN, EGM, Gamespot, etc.) have received a Wii and review copies of its launch games. Gamespot already has 2 or 3 Wii games reviewed. I think they are just taking time with Zelda, since its a big game.

Sheldon

11-16-2006, 03:55 PM

Metacritic only has two reviews - Gamespy 100% and Gamebrink 99%. The gambrink review has videos of them playing it...

Sanagi

11-16-2006, 08:58 PM

1up.com has a big feature on Zelda here: http://www.1up.com/do/minisite?cId=3155193

As for the discussion, I hate to join a dogpile, but there is no franchise more universally loved and lauded than Zelda, and it's a series that has balanced its massive popularity with a willingness to experiment wildly, often upsetting diehard fans by straying drastically from routine. Arguing otherwise is ignoring the facts.

The Drunkard Kid

11-16-2006, 11:13 PM

When were Zelda games ever not puzzle-focused? How was it "platformy" when you almost never had to jump or deal with platforms? Even when you did, the game took care of it automatically
To be fair, Zelda II: The Adventures of Link was pretty much a side-scrolling platform, with the most stereotypically RPGish elements of all the various Zeldas. Yeah, there were some puzzles involved, but mostly it was all about making accurate jumps and blasting things with the right spells.

And, honestly, despite all the flack it got from the diehard fans of Zelda I and the various sequels after AoL, Zelda 2 was actually, IMO pretty darn fun. Leveling up, gaining spells, finding artifacts and fighting through dungeons was a neat change of pace, and a fully platform version of the game (or maybe, of Four Swords Adventure) would be extremely awesome.

Tish-the-Scorpion

11-17-2006, 06:59 AM

why are you all arguing???,its just a game you either like it or you don't.it makes no sense for every damn nintendo related thread to turn into some heated argument.if you hate it then move on and leave the rest of us to our own devices already.

Novaya Havoc

11-17-2006, 08:04 AM

Little growth? There has been massive growth. OoT was the game that introduced lock on targeting, and the 3D environments were a huge step forward in action/adventure gaming.

For The Legend of Zelda. Lock-on-Targeting was not a new development, and neither were 3D environments. Both had been on the PC for years prior. And if you want to split hairs regarding consoles: Tomb Raider?

My boyfriend goes into the same cycle with me over, and over, and over (he got Twilight Princess yesterday, as well). But he, nor anyone, can ever argue that Zelda has been innovative for the whole of gaming like many fanboys will posit.

Lock-on targeting was a necessity for 3D environments, and 3D environments were the natural progression of these games in a larger market that was doing the same thing. I hardly think it's a benchmark of "growth" for the series.

Nomad

11-17-2006, 08:26 AM

Character development in Zelda? LoZ sticks to it's NES roots, which is one reason why the nostalgia runs so strong. OoT lacked exploration? It's just like every Zelda game. There are always places to go, but until you solve a puzzle/find an item, there is a wall between you and the uncharted frontier. I remember the first time I lit a deku stick and cleared cobwebs in OoT. OoT was one of the first games, along with Mario 64, where the decision to go 3D had a huge impact on gameplay. Catching ghosts, (poes) riding Epona, day/night dynamic, Biggoron's sword- these were the things that kept me playing OoT after I finished it. Although I never finished Majora's Mask, (I'm not a fan of time limits) Wind Waker was also an excellent game. I'm really going to miss sailing around a flooded Hyrule. Wind Waker, LttP and OoT had simple, but timeless plots. The Legend of the Princess Zelda, and the green-clad hero of time who saved the age! Hoorah!

Mike Pothier

11-17-2006, 09:44 AM

For The Legend of Zelda. Lock-on-Targeting was not a new development, and neither were 3D environments. Both had been on the PC for years prior. And if you want to split hairs regarding consoles: Tomb Raider?

My boyfriend goes into the same cycle with me over, and over, and over (he got Twilight Princess yesterday, as well). But he, nor anyone, can ever argue that Zelda has been innovative for the whole of gaming like many fanboys will posit.

Lock-on targeting was a necessity for 3D environments, and 3D environments were the natural progression of these games in a larger market that was doing the same thing. I hardly think it's a benchmark of "growth" for the series.

What game had lock on targeting before Zelda? That was the first game I've seen it in.

And I never said it invented 3D environments. I said it was a huge step forward. And it was. The level design was incredibly fluid, and for the first time it felt like I was in a living, breathing world.

Black Atom

11-17-2006, 09:58 AM

For The Legend of Zelda. Lock-on-Targeting was not a new development, and neither were 3D environments. Both had been on the PC for years prior. And if you want to split hairs regarding consoles: Tomb Raider?

My boyfriend goes into the same cycle with me over, and over, and over (he got Twilight Princess yesterday, as well). But he, nor anyone, can ever argue that Zelda has been innovative for the whole of gaming like many fanboys will posit.

Lock-on targeting was a necessity for 3D environments, and 3D environments were the natural progression of these games in a larger market that was doing the same thing. I hardly think it's a benchmark of "growth" for the series.

So, you're honestly saying that the only reason OOT was popular was because of 'nostalgia'? It came out, what, 6 years after the previous Zelda game. For a lot of folks, OOT was their first Zelda game and it superior to its predecessors. It's like saying Metal Gear Solid was only succesful because of NES Metal Gear nostalgia.

Sefina

11-17-2006, 10:12 AM

Okay, I thought I would chime in being a former review writer. Let me just say that I reviewed a game in a series that was widely disliked by fanboys. Did I do this because I was afraid of the KH fan community? No...I did this because I personally enjoyed the game and I figured out the tricks to the system.

To say that these companies do this just because they're afraid of nostagia gamers is stupid. Those who are hardcore will buy the game regardless. I know I have done this before. Reviews need to be taken with a grain of salt and read into to see how the person justifies their opinion. Then, you form your own opinion on whether this will be worth your money or not.

The Drunkard Kid

11-17-2006, 02:17 PM

What game had lock on targeting before Zelda? That was the first game I've seen it in.

And I never said it invented 3D environments. I said it was a huge step forward. And it was. The level design was incredibly fluid, and for the first time it felt like I was in a living, breathing world.
Like someone mentioned, Tomb Raider, though not as blatant (or, IMO, as effective) as OoT's.

And Majora's Mask's timelimit didn't really become a factor outside of some specific puzzles once you learned the song of Half Time and the Song of Double Time so that you could slow the passage of time by half and double your own movement speed.

Nomad

11-17-2006, 04:12 PM

And Majora's Mask's timelimit didn't really become a factor outside of some specific puzzles once you learned the song of Half Time and the Song of Double Time so that you could slow the passage of time by half and double your own movement speed.

Ok, good. I was always planning on finishing Majora's when I finally dusted off my N64

DrewTheXenocide

11-17-2006, 07:05 PM

DOUBLE-U TEE EFF!

http://www.gamespot.com/events/wiilaunch/story.html?sid=6161993&pid=928519&tag=topslot;action;1&om_act=convert&click=topslot

SOOOO much lower than what I expected. For some reason, I'm getting the urge to call "shenanigans", but I know it would be unreasonable to do so.

Tch.

Edit: Nevermind. According to

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/928519.asp

it is just as awesome as I had hoped. Just the GS reveiwer happened to not like it. Ohs wells. You can't please everyone.

Mike Pothier

11-17-2006, 07:23 PM

Eh, it got a perfect 10 just to keep the fanboys from complaining-*looks at review* Wha-wha-WHAT?

Seriously though, I'm still getting the game and I know I'm gonna have a blast with it. Heck, If I don't have a Wii by the time the GC version comes out, I'll just pick up that version and pick up the Wii version when I get a Wii.

Atom_basher

11-17-2006, 09:44 PM

now, im not one of *those* people, but that gamespot review seems super suspect, every website and respected publication gives the game stellar reviews, then that site gives it an 8.8 that seems off

metr0man

11-17-2006, 10:35 PM

seems low, but at least he seemed to you know, play it, and consider the good and the bad instead of just stamping a perfect score on it before it came out like it appears some are doing. I'm sure the game will be great. I really didn't sense any sort of prediliction (sp?) to negativity in the review.

interestingly, the aspect that has the lowest score is "Sound". not sure what to make of that.

the only thing that would concern me from a gameplay perspective is this:
"But normally you can just keep on shaking the Wii Remote like a maniac and come out on top against most enemies."

Fish Sauce

11-17-2006, 11:10 PM

If the lowest is an 8.8, it can't seriously be too bad.

Robotech Master

11-17-2006, 11:14 PM

Matt from IGN put 50+ hours of play time into his review and gave the game a 9.5

Taltos

11-17-2006, 11:22 PM

IGN.com 9.5 /10
GameSpot 8.8 /10
Game Informer 10 /10
Game Informer 10 /10
Wizard Universe A+ /A+
1UP.com 10 /10
GameDaily 4.5 /5
Gamerz Edge 10 /10
Lawrence.com 99 /100
GameBrink.com 99 /100
GameSpy.com 5 /5
UnderGroundOnline (UGO) A /A+
The Hylia 9.6 /10

An IGN adjusted press average of 9.7

Fish Sauce

11-17-2006, 11:25 PM

Novaya Havoc

11-18-2006, 07:05 AM

See? Like I said. Fanboys freaking out, comparing notes, etc. etc. if the game gets anything under a near perfect.

My boyfriend called me last night to diss the reviewer and say how he was too lazy to even stand up for Wii sports and is obviously a "Wii hater," and so on, and so forth.

Thanks for proving my point about fans freaking out when a Zelda title even gets a GOOD score -- just not perfect.

Mike Pothier

11-18-2006, 12:33 PM

Who freaked out?

metr0man

11-18-2006, 01:09 PM

^ he's referring to Nintendo fans on other boards. Check out Gamespot's boards for instance.

Anyways, I noticed that even in the IGN review, if you go down to the very end where the category scores are, they actually complain about some of the same things:

8.0 Presentation
A truly epic new Zelda complete with a compelling, darker storyline, enhanced controls, and brand new gameplay mechanics. Lack of voice acting and orchestrated music are unfortunate.
8.5 Graphics
An absolutely gorgeous GameCube game. An enormous, detailed world brought to life via beautiful art. But Wii is still capable of much more, as the adventure's sometimes-blurry textures prove.
8.0 Sound
Again, where's the orchestrated music? Come on, Nintendo. Everything else is great, from the moody sound effects to the atmospheric MIDI compositions.

However they clearly didn't have any issues with the controls as gameplay

Gameplay
Superb. The tried-and-true Zelda gameplay mechanics are taken to new heights with the Wii remote and nunchuk. Overworld and temple designs are stellar. Classic Zelda reborn for a new generation.
9.5 Lasting Appeal
It'll keep you busy for at least 50 hours and you could spend double that in Nintendo's new Hyrule. So much to do and see that you'll be busy for weeks, if not months.

Look, not everybody thought Majora's Mask or Wind Waker were perfect either. There are certainly people who think both games are good but not perfect, so its not like its unprecedented.

TransformersFan

11-18-2006, 01:17 PM

anyone getting this for the gamecube?

Xero Kaiser

11-18-2006, 03:02 PM

Yeah, same damn thing. Saves me the trouble of buying a Wii

Mike Pothier

11-18-2006, 03:11 PM

^ he's referring to Nintendo fans on other boards. Check out Gamespot's boards for instance.

Well, duh. Thats what fanboys do. That still didn't stop Gamespot from posting their score.

Sanagi

11-18-2006, 04:35 PM

Yeah, same damn thing. Saves me the trouble of buying a Wii
I was thinking I'd do that too, but most reviewers are saying that it's better on the Wii, which has changed my plans.

Oddly, it seems that the entire Wii version is reversed left to right in order to match Link's sword hand to the player's right hand.

Sanagi

11-18-2006, 04:39 PM

What game had lock on targeting before Zelda? That was the first game I've seen it in.
Mega Man Legends.

blackdragon6

11-18-2006, 07:36 PM

Well, duh. Thats what fanboys do. That still didn't stop Gamespot from posting their score.exactly...

Sanagi

11-19-2006, 03:45 AM

There were a lot more people buying Wiii tonight than I expected... They nicely informed me that I was too late to bother standing in line at both the stores I went to. Oh well. I guess I'll get some sleep tonight after all. Wait, what time is it? Oops.

Nomad

11-19-2006, 03:34 PM

Wow, I just wrestled a goat to the ground by grabbing his horns. Link is one mean ranch hand.

Nomad

11-19-2006, 09:23 PM

I love this game, and I'm having a blast playing it. But-

What is nintendo's fascination with shadow worlds? Four Swords, Metroid Prime 2... They've been using dual realities for some time now, but what is with the light vs. shadow concept? I'm not a fan of fighting in the darkness all the time, that's what shadow temples are for. It's like how in Elder Scrolls: oblivion they market the oblivion realms as being some sort of improvement to the game world, when in fact it's more fun to fight in cities and dungeons because of the diversity of scenery. A new setting would be nice. I'm curious to see how the new Mario turns out...

Black Atom

11-19-2006, 09:28 PM

Say it ain't so, man. I'm really coming to hate games with "shadow worlds".

Nomad

11-19-2006, 09:38 PM

Say it ain't so, man. I'm really coming to hate games with "shadow worlds".
Of course in this case, it's a 'twilight realm'

Sanagi

11-19-2006, 10:24 PM

The shadow world concept has been a big part of the Zelda series. The original game had the second quest, which had no storyline explanation but fit the idea of a twisted, more dangerous version of the normal world. Zelda 3 incorporated it into the plot, along with the terms "dark world" and "light world," and introduced the idea of moving back and forth between the two. And Ocarina of Time had a bleak future world ruled by Ganondorf.

I agree, though, that coming on the heels of Metroid Prime 2 it's in danger of becoming too much of a cliche.

Astonishing X-Fan

11-19-2006, 11:02 PM

I'm just glad that this time, Link doesn't look like a rejected character design from Dora the Explorer.

Nomad

11-20-2006, 12:40 AM

Nomad

11-20-2006, 12:44 AM

I'm just glad that this time, Link doesn't look like a rejected character design from Dora the Explorer.
You mean like wind waker? I still don't understand what all the hooplah is about. "Adult" Link has never been that adult, and I don't understand the reaction coming from fans about how the cartoony link ruins the game. Great game, great concept, great visuals, imho.

Sanagi

11-20-2006, 02:56 AM

See? Now you make it sound fun again. But you're right about it becoming dangerously close to cliche.

Btw, how is Fairbanks treating you?
Not bad, not bad. A bit cold. You?

Hmm, so far I've met three people from Alaska on CBR but none of them live in Fairbanks.

Novaya Havoc

11-20-2006, 08:25 AM

Say it ain't so, man. I'm really coming to hate games with "shadow worlds".

All Zeldas have shadow worlds since A Link to the Past.

This one looks like Silent Hill: The Movie, though. Minus all the blood and mutilated bodies, but my b/f and I both agree it's pretty Silent Hill.

My impression? Twilight Princess is basically Ocarina of Time done WELL. It has a lot of similar elements so far.

Astonishing X-Fan

11-20-2006, 08:56 AM

"You mean like wind waker? I still don't understand what all the hooplah is about. "Adult" Link has never been that adult, and I don't understand the reaction coming from fans about how the cartoony link ruins the game. Great game, great concept, great visuals, imho."

I don't mind when things look cartoony. I do mind when things look flat-out stupid. And I do mind when things look like they're for four-year-olds.

And it wasn't just the visuals. The whole game felt like it was pandering to pre-schoolers. It was so easy an infant could probably beat it.

Xero Kaiser

11-20-2006, 11:17 AM

I was thinking I'd do that too, but most reviewers are saying that it's better on the Wii, which has changed my plans.

Well, most reviewers are stupid. Unless something drastic has changed and they've added more than just 480p and the Wii controller

Mike Pothier

11-20-2006, 11:26 AM

I am insanely jealous. Grrrr.:mad:

Taltos

11-20-2006, 02:23 PM

Wow, I just wrestled a goat to the ground by grabbing his horns. Link is one mean ranch hand.
Honestly, I was in shock, that single feat of home grown toughness made me believe he could save the world.

The Drunkard Kid

11-21-2006, 02:55 PM

Ok, good. I was always planning on finishing Majora's when I finally dusted off my N64Whoops, slight correction: One of those songs slows down time, the other skips ahead six hours (very useful, especially if you don't feel like undoing the time-slow). To double movement speed, all you need is the bunny-hood.

blackdragon6

11-21-2006, 04:19 PM

so what do you guys think of the game so far??

Sanagi

11-21-2006, 04:21 PM

Huh. The two different versions of Zelda got the same overall score from Famitsu - 38/40 - but one reviewer scored the Wii version higher, and one scored the Gamecube version higher. But so far I don't see an explanation anywhere as to why those reviewers made those choices. I'd like to know the rationale...

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7258

Jared H.

11-21-2006, 06:07 PM

so what do you guys think of the game so far??

I've just been through the Twilight World for the first time, and dear lord that was awesome.

Most certainly better than Ocarina thus far(and trounces Windwaker). Jury's still out on whether it beats LttP though...

Xero Kaiser

11-22-2006, 04:44 AM

Novaya Havoc

11-22-2006, 07:16 AM

Taltos

11-22-2006, 07:23 AM

I've just been through the Twilight World for the first time, and dear lord that was awesome.

Most certainly better than Ocarina thus far(and trounces Windwaker). Jury's still out on whether it beats LttP though...
Im very meh about it right now.

So far i liked windwaker better. It was all blue skies and happy fun time, with all the dark, it is already feeling kinda depressing. Also I don't like all the parallels between this and Metroid Prime Echoes. For example there is the light and dark worlds, the need to change form in the dark world, and the scanning. Also, the use of the Wiimote in sword attacks is pretty weak. I was expecting certain movements to do different attacks, instead its uses the same movement with different buttons combinations, and your best attacks dont even use the motion control.

Though im only a few hours in, I'm not getting the wow this game is AMAZING! feel that i got with such titles as RE4, Metroid Prime, and even windwaker.

Xero Kaiser

11-22-2006, 07:34 AM

It's by far the best looking of the Zelda games. I didn't get to play it, but blahblahblah

Fun game, but in the end, little is new.

Uh.....what?

And I don't think anyone ever said that this was going to be a FF12/RE4 style overhaul

Novaya Havoc

11-22-2006, 08:10 AM

Uh.....what?

And I don't think anyone ever said that this was going to be a FF12/RE4 style overhaul

Everyone did say this would be the best game of all time. But it's not.

Minor spoilers:
Zelda has little to do with anything. Of course, Ganon pops up in the end. Midna has one of the lamest "developments" ever.

It's pretty, and the dialogue is better for sure. But the story just isn't there. Why-oh-why can't the Zelda get a storyline that is, well, good? The whole thing is a cross between A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time. Except in THIS "Dark World" there's no Moon Pearl to make you human, unlike a Link to the Past. So you stay in animal form.

As I was watching, I expected it to pick up steam, have some plot twists, do something interesting with Zelda -- anything -- but it never did. It didn't even have an interesting myth lore to go with it like some of the other installments.

*sigh*

Agent Helix

11-22-2006, 08:16 AM

We get it already.

Xero Kaiser

11-22-2006, 08:18 AM

Everyone did say this would be the best game of all time. But it's not.

Who's "everyone"? That kind of thing gets said about a lot of games. If you actually believe it everytime somebody says that about every game...well...I don't know what to say.

And Zelda always gets pushed to the side. We all know that this is actually Link's show

Mike Pothier

11-22-2006, 12:08 PM

Again, if you are looking for a Final Fantasy story, GO PLAY FINAL FANTASY.

Sanagi

11-22-2006, 04:21 PM

Everyone did say this would be the best game of all time. But it's not.

Oh no. My faith in Nintendo is shattered. I see now that my life has been a lie.

Nomad

11-22-2006, 05:49 PM

I watched my boyfriend beat it, and all I can say is -- regarding the story element -- underwhelming.

It's by far the best looking of the Zelda games. I didn't get to play it, but the story still isn't there. It's even worse when gamers try to place the games in some sort of chronological order.

Fun game, but in the end, little is new.
The story is irrelevant. The game is about the Legend of Link, Princess Zelda, and maybe the triforce. The games don't really need an order. Is he the same Link? Is he a little kid? He fills the role of Link, so it doesn't matter. It's all about the iconic roles of the characters and their relations to each other, like Joeseph Campbell'd say. If there was a plot, and they tried too hard, (like final fantasy does) it wouldn't be Legend of Zelda. It HAS to be more or less the same thing with the story. Link saves Hyrule, that's just what he does.

Black Atom

11-22-2006, 05:55 PM

I watched my boyfriend beat it...

Please, let's try to stick to talking about video games, hm?

But to follow what others are saying, Zelda games typically don't have a lot of storyline/character development. It's primarily and action/adventure, in which you become the hero. Link's supposed to be YOU, which is why he doesn't speak or develop much as a character.