Elton John wants to ban religion!

[BlairH]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-12T142628Z_01_L12883297_RTRUKOC_0_US-BRITAIN-ELTON.xml

Yes Elton John! We'll ban religion. Not only that, but we'll set up a special police force to tackle these renegade religious heretics. We'll call it the Inquisition. After all, what is law if we can't enforce it eh?

This just goes to show that most celebrities would be best served keeping their mouths firmly closed. Untill now, I had massive respect for Elton John and his work (if not his dress sense).

[warspite1805]

I have never understood why people pay so much attention to what celebrities say out side what they are famous for.

[shades of eternity]

and your expecting credible thought for a man who once dressed up as donald duck on stage?

[Merey]

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

[BlairH]

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Banning something isn't the same as wishing something away.

[Phrozen]

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Very very naive song. Lennon had no idea what he was talking about.

[Grazzt]

Banning something isn't the same as wishing something away.

Actually, I think wishing it away is worse. If it's banned, you can still practise it, but it's illegal. If it's been wished away, really wished away, then it's gone completely and you can't practise it at all.

[BlairH]

Very very naive song. Lennon had no idea what he was talking about.
He was probably high at the time.

[Kid Omega]

Very very naive song. Lennon had no idea what he was talking about.

College kids are awesome.

[Merey]

Very very naive song. Lennon had no idea what he was talking about.


Ha!

Naive? Wishing the best of humanity? Yes, as a Humanist he absolutely had no idea what he was talking about. You're right.

[StoneGold]

Oh noes, now you'll have to throw out your comprehensive Elton John collection in protest! What will you do without all your special editions of Candle in the Wind?

[Drew Van T.]

Very very naive song. Lennon had no idea what he was talking about.

He was verbally condensing his own socialist ideals into a rather simplistic and therefore cutesy and naive form...that did, however, make for a very good song, because lots of people sang along with that song without realizing what Lennon was really talking about.

[Joe Acro]

This statement by Elton John makes me lose a little respect for him. It's a little sad that a man can turn his back to a concept due to fanaticism and ignorance.

And I don't like Imagine.

[Merey]

Oh noes, now you'll have to throw out your comprehensive Elton John collection in protest! What will you do without all your special editions of Candle in the Wind?

Too bad Guy Fawkes Day has already passed. You guys could have added an effigy of Sir Elton and thrown those comprehensive compilations into the bonfire.

[StoneGold]

Seriously though, what do you expect from a man who calls himself The Bitch?

[rick]

Naw, I'm just going to edit this one out and keep everyone from having a riot over what I actually posted about the God myth.

Sorry to have interupted.

[Paradox]

Reggie, Reggie, Reggie...religion doesn't turn people into hateful lemmings. People ARE hateful lemmings. Religions just take advantage of that.

[Expletive Deleted]

He has a new album out, then?

[Spike-X]

When Elton John actually has the power to do such a thing, I might be able to find the effort to have an opinion about this.

[JeffreyWKramer]

When Elton John actually has the power to do such a thing, I might be able to find the effort to have an opinion about this.

Elton doesn't even have the power to sell records any more.

Silly Elton. His goal is only going to be achieved by education and logic, not by banning anything.

Given the man's fashion sense, though, I suppose it's no surprise that he's rather addled about other matters.

[BlairH]

Ha!

Naive? Wishing the best of humanity? Yes, as a Humanist he absolutely had no idea what he was talking about. You're right.

I wasn't aware that humanists had abolition of religion at the top of their agenda.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I wasn't aware that humanists had abolition of religion at the top of their agenda.

Some humanists don't have a problem with religion, they just regard it as irrelevant and perhaps silly. Others do have problems with religion.

[StoneGold]

I wasn't aware that humanists had abolition of religion at the top of their agenda.
And I wasn't aware that all religious people had sticks up their asses when it came to comments by over-the-hill pop stars, but I guess we have to take everyone by their stereotypes, and when a certain example doesn't live up to it, point at it like it's going out of style so you can use it as an example of why all of a certain group you don't like are evil.

[Merey]

I wasn't aware that humanists had abolition of religion at the top of their agenda.

Nor was I. Although, if you asked my fundamentalist (and frankly, unstable) Grandfather , he'd say that the [dirty word]secular humanists[/dirty word] have conspiring to take down religion since the 20s. I was responding to Phrozen's accusation that Lennon was naive - nothing more, nothing less.

[Adam Crocker]

It's a little sad that a man can turn his back to a concept due to fanaticism and ignorance.

I find it sadder (okay funnier) that he rejected toleration wholesale because of the intolerance fostered by religious authoritarianism.

[BlairH]

use it as an example of why all of a certain group you don't like are fucking evil.
What group? Celebrities? Gay people? Old people? Musicians?

[rick]

Some humanists don't have a problem with religion, they just regard it as irrelevant and perhaps silly. Others do have problems with religion.


I am part of the first, but understand the frustration of the second.

I really don't care if people wish to believe in mythical beings, but I do have a serious problem with how often that belief interferes with how people get by in the real world.

Still, banning a thought is never a good idea, even if the thought is silly.

But at the same time since the myth of God causes so much death, destruction, mutilation and hatred, it really is not something that any sane person should support or encourage.

So, Reg does have a good point. But really, other then to outrage the believers in myth, his statement doesn’t actually accomplish anything .

[StoneGold]

What group? Celebrities? Gay people? Old people? Musicians?
Read what I quoted in the post.




I swear, they need to teach more reading comprehension in the schools these days.

[Tom]

Like all of you, I too find most of what celebrities say not worth discussing and like all of you, I too am posting this thought in a thread so we can all talk about how celebrities aren't worth talking about.

[rick]

Like all of you, I too find most of what celebrities say not worth discussing and like all of you, I too am posting this thought in a thread so we can all talk about how celebrities aren't worth talking about.


Would it be considered too cliche if I posted a LOL followed by a big shit eating smily face?

Oh what the hell, decorum be dammed.


"lol" :D

[Spike-X]

"lol" :D

You've changed, man.

[Charles RB]

What will you do without all your special editions of Candle in the Wind?

Live a happy and joyous life.

[rick]

You've changed, man.


What can I tell you, I'm just like Papillon after his second 5 years in solitare.

[Solaris]

Well, while he's apparently entered the cranky stage of his life, I can't disagree with him 100%. Oh, I certainly wouldn't BAN organized religions (and I don't think he would really, either)... but I have to agree that the "lemming phenomenon" he mentions is quite legitimate for a portion of those who belong to organized religions (and I'm including Pagan ones in that, so don't say I'm being anti-Christian or whatever).

I get the feeling that Elton has had moments where he's just aggravated enough to say "Screw being politically correct! They're gonna misquote me or misinterpret me anyway, so I might as well just make a sweeping statement of my annoyance and be done with it." People do it all the time, not just celebs or pop stars.

He's right that for a fair number of people, belonging to an organized religion means you turn off your brain and blindly accept whatever is spoonfed to you, while you get in return feedback of "belonging to the special group" and "chock-full righteousness." I think it was this type of person he was addressing. We all know folks of that type.

I daresay (and would hope) that Elton also knows some folks who try to live by the spirit of their religion's basis, and doubt and question and work at their faith, rather than seeing it as the "universal pablum and get out of jail free card," the way some see it. But he put his finger on a very big sore, in that there are *some* out there who are blind to the contradictions their ministers, congregations, and/or dogma of their "mother" churches give them, and who are stupidly willing to swallow that "expressing hate" is not contradictory to compassion, and is not a righteous prideful thing. (For an extreme example, see Rev. Phelps's church.)

[Slade.]

Communism > Religion

Elton John = Irrelevant pansy

[Solaris]

Communism > Religion

Elton John = Irrelevant pansy


Pansy? Why?

[StoneGold]

Pansy? Why?
He wrote Candle in the Wind?

[That JonoGuy]

While his comments ARE a bit silly, he does have a point. Can you blame him? It's hard enough living without religion trying to make your life shit.

[Solaris]

He wrote Candle in the Wind?

ER... and toughguy Patrick Swayze starred in the chick flick "Ghost," a dance movie, and took ballet... is that what it takes to make a "pansy"?

[StoneGold]

ER... and toughguy Patrick Swayze starred in the chick flick "Ghost," a dance movie, and took ballet... is that what it takes to make a "pansy"?
Wait, your best example of a tough guy is Patrick Swayze? Has anyone ever counted Swayze as a tough guy?

[Drew Van T.]

Too bad Guy Fawkes Day has already passed. You guys could have added an effigy of Sir Elton and thrown those comprehensive compilations into the bonfire.

What would Borat say? Oh yes, he would say something like:

In my country Kazakhstan - very similar to US and A! Is nice! - homosexuals today no longer have to wear blue hats. Also, no more throwing of life-size dolls of bitchy singer Eltone Jones and transsexual prostitute George Michaels on bonfire at christmas times. Not anymore.

But we still do running of the Jews, yes? Is nice!

[Valmore]

He wrote Candle in the Wind?

Keith Richards was wrong when he said Elton John only writes songs for dead blondes. He only wrote one song for dead blondes - he just changes the lyrics a little to fit the blonde.

When Paris Hilton bites it, I fully expect to hear this version:

"Goodbye Hilton Head, though I never boned you at all I think I might, if I could figure out if I was gay or heterosexual."

He might even use it for her dad's passing, too.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

On Elton. In my opinion, his last great album was Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy.

On Religion. I know a lot of people that believe a lot of obtuse things. There are people on this board, for example, that believe that Rob Liefeld is a great artist and Geoff Johns is a great writer.

The religion thing is the same. If you want to believe that a Essenen carpenter who preached being halfway decent to each other and was killed by the Pharasees in complicity with the Romans because of complaints about the tax on Micvah baths at Passover, that's fine too.

[Spike-X]

...a Essenen carpenter...

I read that as "Essendon carpenter". And thought to myself, "Jesus was a Bombers fan?"

Non-Australians feel free to disregard this post.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

I read that as "Essendon carpenter". And thought to myself, "Jesus was a Bombers fan?"

Non-Australians feel free to disregard this post.

Bredan Fevola is a political prisoner.

[Merey]

What would Borat say? Oh yes, he would say something like:

In my country Kazakhstan - very similar to US and A! Is nice! - homosexuals today no longer have to wear blue hats. Also, no more throwing of life-size dolls of bitchy singer Eltone Jones and transsexual prostitute George Michaels on bonfire at christmas times. Not anymore.

But we still do running of the Jews, yes? Is nice!

Bwah! I've got to go see that movie.

[howyadoin]

Wait, your best example of a tough guy is Patrick Swayze? Has anyone ever counted Swayze as a tough guy?Not I. Because, y'know, he starred in the chick flick "Ghost," a dance movie, and took ballet.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Not I. Because, y'know, he starred in the chick flick "Ghost," a dance movie, and took ballet.

And sang "She's like the wind"

Of course, any chickflickery is negated by Roadhouse. The toughest film in history.

[StoneGold]

And sang "She's like the wind"

Of course, any chickflickery is negated by Roadhouse. The toughest film in history.
Can't be. Chuck Bronson wasn't in it.

[Jeff Brady]

Bwah! I've got to go see that movie.

Absolutely. I'll go see it during my vacation next week.

[StoneGold]

Just wanted to add this bit about Roadhouse. From Ruthlessreviews.com:

Well, let me start by quoting from the movie, "I used to fuck guys like you in prison." So, obviously, this film is gay. In fact, that same character, just minutes earlier, mutters, "Your ass is mine, boy." However, Road House may be the only bisexual 80s Action movie out there. Normally we call leading ladies in these movies beards because the heroes regard their women with almost as much disdain as they do the bad guys, but there is just no way to justify how much time Swayze spends naked and banging Kelly Lynch. Don't get me wrong, Swayze absolutely oils up his chest before Tai Chi, especially when he knows Ben Gazzara and his hillbilly landlord are watching. Hence, the bi-sexuality. Though it should be pointed out that both Swayze and Lynch looked confused and almost lost during the big love scene. Could be that the writer/dircetor of Road House simply had no experience to go on, so the all the man-on-woman sex was improvised. Most likely it was Swayze's first time with a woman.

http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/reviews.cfm/id/952/back/80/page/roadhouse.html

[Michael P]

Absolutely. I'll go see it during my vacation next week.
Call me when you do; I wanna see it too, and it's not like I don't have free time.

[howyadoin]

Roadhouse. The toughest film in history.This clarifies a lot of things about you.

[Michael P]

This clarifies a lot of things about you.
Yeah, it all pretty much makes sense:

http://www.mst3kinfo.com/saywhat/crowtxt.jpg

[Jeff Brady]

Call me when you do; I wanna see it too, and it's not like I don't have free time.

Will do. Did you get my PM about Thanksgiving?

[Michael P]

Will do. Did you get my PM about Thanksgiving?
Yep; gimme a couple days.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

This clarifies a lot of things about you.

You live in British Columbia. That clarifies a lot of things about you.

[Pinball]

Eh, people say silly things all the time. And celebrities is people.

In my opinion, his last great album was Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy.
Did you check out his new one? It's the sequel, basically.

[Iangould]

Very very naive song. Lennon had no idea what he was talking about.

"All we are saying, is just give war a chance..."

[Nikita]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-12T142628Z_01_L12883297_RTRUKOC_0_US-BRITAIN-ELTON.xml

Yes Elton John! We'll ban religion. Not only that, but we'll set up a special police force to tackle these renegade religious heretics. We'll call it the Inquisition. After all, what is law if we can't enforce it eh?

This just goes to show that most celebrities would be best served keeping their mouths firmly closed. Untill now, I had massive respect for Elton John and his work (if not his dress sense).



Sounds like a good idea to me. :D

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Did you check out his new one? It's the sequel, basically.

I haven't yet. But I will when the chance arises.

[king mob]

Elton's comments were the subject of a phone-in on the BBC's Five Live last night. They had Matthew Parris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Parris), a Church of England vicar and one of Fred Phelps lot. To say that this was a 'heated debate' is something of an understatement.

The views of the likes of Phelps are rarely, if ever, broadcast here so hearing such extreme homophobia (justified by religion) was somewhat shocking. It sounded like something from a time long gone and of course it is. However Parris made the valid point that although Phelps was clearly an insane bigot, those views are more honest that the "love the sinner, hate the sin" views being aired by many callers. The reasoning being that Parris (rightly) doesn't consider homosexuality a sin, so why do people still hide behind their religion to insult and abuse homosexuals and lesbians?

After this point the debate got out of control and messy, however it did show in a very small way that Elton John does raise a valid point. He should however be calling to have religion reform and actually deal with 21st century society rather than asking for it to be banned though.It somewhat detracts from his argument.

[Ontir]

Banning religion would have the opposite, of the desired affect. I think England is a pretty good example of what happens when you make religion part of the government. Many people have little use for it, or give it only their most cursory participation - the Easter and Christmas-ers.

[Drew Van T.]

After this point the debate got out of control and messy, however it did show in a very small way that Elton John does raise a valid point. He should however be calling to have religion reform and actually deal with 21st century society rather than asking for it to be banned though.It somewhat detracts from his argument.

Right. The only real problem is here is his aim was far too broad and extreme. Only two minor adjustments would have had to be made for a much better statement: if he had said "homophobic organized religions" instead of just "organized religion" in general, and "restrictions imposed by the law" instead of "banned", then it would have sounded so much more sensible (to the majority of the British, anyway).

[king mob]

I think England is a pretty good example of what happens when you make religion part of the government.

<niggle>You mean the UK, not England.</niggle>


To clarify, the Church or religion is not part of the government. The Church does sit in the House of Lords in the form of bishops and they can block or vote to change bills as they pass through. The Lords is dues a half-arsed reform but the Church should be totally removed from British politics. However thats a reform too far for those clinging on to their cushy number sitting in the Lords.

Britain is a vastly more secular country than the US, any politician trying to use religion to win votes here more often than not sees it blow back in their face. John Major's 'back to basics' being a prime example of this. The Church, and other religions, have their part to play in British society, it should have little to do with our politics.

[BlairH]

"restrictions imposed by the law"
I'm very wary of legislative restrictions on religion. As a general rule, the legislature should stay out of the church, and the church should stay out of the legislature.

[BlairH]

Britain is a vastly more secular country than the US
I disagree.

Our head of state is the leader of the Protestant Church of England. The US (in theory anyway) has a tradition of keeping the church and the state at arm's length.

[king mob]

I disagree.

Our head of state is the leader of the Protestant Church of England. The US (in theory anyway) has a tradition of keeping the church and the state at arm's length.


You don't see our politicians, pop stars, footballers, etc constantly thanking god at the drop of a hat. Ok, the Queen is still head of state but religion and politics don't mix well here.

[Ontir]

OK, I tend to get mixed up with England, Britain, and the UK. If someone could explain the designations, I'd be grateful.

As to secular nations, and governments, in theory, the US is a secular government of a religions nation. Recently that line has been... I was going to say "blurred," but "Jackhammered" is more accurate. While the Monarch is the head of the official church of the UK, the people, in my experience, viewing, and reading, are largely post-Christian, and the religions that thrive aren't endorsed by the government.

[king mob]

OK, I tend to get mixed up with England, Britain, and the UK. If someone could explain the designations, I'd be grateful.

The UK is made up of Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland. Calling the UK or Britain (which is made up of the above minus NI) 'England' is a really, really, really common mistake people do and it tends to annoy us Scots loads. So UK or Britain will do when referring to our country as a whole.

While the Monarch is the head of the official church of the UK, the people, in my experience, viewing, and reading, are largely post-Christian, and the religions that thrive aren't endorsed by the government.

Prince Charles wants to be a more inclusive monarch if/when he succeeds Lizzie. He wants to become 'Defender of the Faiths'. However he'd still remain head of state which is a bit bollocks really.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I disagree.

Our head of state is the leader of the Protestant Church of England. The US (in theory anyway) has a tradition of keeping the church and the state at arm's length.

I don't think the point is even arguable. Without looking at any hard data, I'd still have to imagine that the percentage of churchgoers, believers in God, etc. are much higher in the U.S. than in England.

The "separation" of Church and State is a hotly-contested issue and has been for some time in the U.S. Those of us on the secular side think it's been eroded far too much, while those who believe religion should have a greater influence in daily life in the U.S. believe the opposite.

[warspite1805]

One thing i thin should be reformed ASAP is tyhat the Prime Minister of the UK gets to select the Church of England's Bishops, a sinod approach would be a lot better.

[BlairH]

I don't think the point is even arguable. Without looking at any hard data, I'd still have to imagine that the percentage of churchgoers, believers in God, etc. are much higher in the U.S. than in England.


If we're talking demographics, I'm not going to disagree with you: I too, imagine that the US has a higher percentage of churchgoers. However, the fact remains that our system of Government is -in theory- much less secular than your system of government. (Tony B'liar appointing Bishops being one example, the crime of blasphemy applying only to assaults on Christianity being another, and the "ban" on Catholics being the monarch/head of state being the most obvious)

[Iangould]

OK, I tend to get mixed up with England, Britain, and the UK. If someone could explain the designations, I'd be grateful.

As to secular nations, and governments, in theory, the US is a secular government of a religions nation. Recently that line has been... I was going to say "blurred," but "Jackhammered" is more accurate. While the Monarch is the head of the official church of the UK, the people, in my experience, viewing, and reading, are largely post-Christian, and the religions that thrive aren't endorsed by the government.

"Britain" is the island.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the political entity and is commonly referred to as either "Great Britain" or the UK.

England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are the principal divisions within the United Kingdom.

England was founded by German invaders of Roman Britain who pushed otu the original celtic inhabitants.

The English eventually conquered the Welsh principalities and Ireland (but they eventually gave most of it back). Scotland was an independent Kingdom up until the 17th century when Elizabeth the first, queen of England, died without an heir and was succeeded by her nephew James the First who was also king of Scotland.

Several wars and about 100 years later British Parliament passed the Act of Union which formally abolished the separate Scottish monarchy creatign the "United Kingdom".

Despite this, the Scots retained their own legal system and sense of identity. Referring to them as English is rather like referring to Canadians as Americans or New Zealanders as Australians.

Since Labour has been in power in Britain, some legislative power has been handed back to Scottish and Welsh assemblies.

It's becoming common parlance now to refer to Scotland, England, Wales and Ulster as separate countries despite the fact that they all remain part of the United Kingdom.

In the context of this discussion, all this is relevant because the monarch of the United Kingdom is simultaneously head of the Church of England and Head of the Church of Scotland - and the two Churches actually differ on matters of doctrine.

[Slam_Bradley]

Like all of you, I too find most of what celebrities say not worth discussing and like all of you, I too am posting this thought in a thread so we can all talk about how celebrities aren't worth talking about.


My name is Slam Bradley. And I approve of this message.



Not that Tom needs my approval.


But, really. Who gives a hairy rats ass what Elton John has to say about anything. Or any other "celebrity" for that matter.

[Mia]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-12T142628Z_01_L12883297_RTRUKOC_0_US-BRITAIN-ELTON.xml

Yes Elton John! We'll ban religion. Not only that, but we'll set up a special police force to tackle these renegade religious heretics. We'll call it the Inquisition. After all, what is law if we can't enforce it eh?

This just goes to show that most celebrities would be best served keeping their mouths firmly closed. Untill now, I had massive respect for Elton John and his work (if not his dress sense).


When I read this on the Globe and Mail online, I had to read it twice to make sure I was reading it correctly. You know for some reason I've had respect for John. There was something about him, and his various struggles in his life I could identify with. But that's all changed after what he said about religion.

Any respect I had for Elton John, has completely dissapated. Thank God I never invested any of my money in his records.

[Rabid Trekkie]

The "separation" of Church and State is a hotly-contested issue and has been for some time in the U.S. Those of us on the secular side think it's been eroded far too much, while those who believe religion should have a greater influence in daily life in the U.S. believe the opposite.

I actually wonder about if that's true or if it's just made to look like it. I mean how many other people besides Phelps and Kennedy (think that's the name, the Coral Ridge guy with the "documentaries") actually spend a lot of time harping on the issue?

It seems like the news just jumps on it to sell its papers and time slots on tv.

And while it would make my life a lot easier if the entire U.S. stopped every thing on Friday at sundown and didn't pick it back up till sundown on Saturday, I don't really feel the need to force that on any body.

[Jiminez Criqueta]

Elton John is a moron. Always has been. His music has always sucked to me, been super corny and well, "gay". I don't mean that as an insult against homosexuals, I just mean his whole attitude and musical persona is not for me.

And now I hear he's trying to do a rap album. Yay kids, see when your music stops being relevant and starts sucking even worse, just switch to whatever the most popular genre and gimmick is dominating at the time! Sweet lord, somebody stop him. He's gonna take one big steaming dump on a culture and music he don't know shit about, and I bet half the people who are groupies will act like it's good just cuz he's supposed to be some sort of "legend".

[Rachel Grey]

I read that as "Essendon carpenter". And thought to myself, "Jesus was a Bombers fan?"

Non-Australians feel free to disregard this post.


... Is that why they get crucified every year?

[king mob]

Elton John is a moron. Always has been. His music has always sucked to me, been super corny and well, "gay". I don't mean that as an insult against homosexuals, I just mean his whole attitude and musical persona is not for me.



Don't you think using the term 'gay' as even a passing derogatory term is somewhat making Elton John's point for him?

[BlairH]

Don't you think using the term 'gay' as even a passing derogatory term is somewhat making Elton John's point for him?

You'd have to prove that the poster was influenced by religion first. If he wasn't influenced by religion, then that turns Elton's argument on it's head, as it shows that people will be "lemmings" with or without religion.

I know plenty of non-religious people, and many of them use the word "gay" as a derogatory term.

[Mike Smith]

I could really care less about Elton's thoughts, especially considering how hypocritical they may be, but since he's a knight and all perhaps his dictates will be forced on us peasants

[kidpernicious]

Our head of state is the leader of the Protestant Church of England. The US (in theory anyway) has a tradition of keeping the church and the state at arm's length.
Big difference being that your head of state at this point acts much more as a figurehead than anything else, whereas our head of state is frighteningly powerful, and has until now been leading our government by the nose, for the most part legislating and dictating policies that may very well be heavily influenced by his religious views (or just as bad, by the potential benefit of playing to the religious views of his voter base).

Though feel free to blame my crappy American education if I'm wrong about British royalty's involvement in legislation. Point being, I've got worlds' more anxiety about a Bible-thumping President than I do over your Queen being head of the Church. Tony Blair's actions seem more relevant. Or would that be incorrect to state, that your prime minister holds more true power than royalty in the UK?

As for religion, I'd love for it all to disappear, after a point. I think a great number of atheist types tend to ignore the likelihood that if religion were just magically snuffed out, right off, more harm would come of it than good. Religion uses people and people use religion, and that can go very badly, but it can also motivate and mobilize large numbers of people into actually doing good in the world. So much work is done in Africa and around the world to fight starvation, raise literacy and AIDS awareness, support orphanages and encourage adoption, improve sanitation, etc, all simply because people were convinced God was telling them to do those things.

Obviously people can commit good acts without God, and I sincerely hate when people suggest that morality comes only from belief in God. But I do think it's fair to assume at least some significant portion of the religious populace that does charitable work simply wouldn't be, if not for their stubborn belief in silly backwards-assed primitive mythologies.

[LtMarvel]

**Checks the power of Elton John.

**Checks the difficulty level of banning religion

**Moves on to something of importance...

[TheTen-EyedMan]

I could really care less about Elton's thoughts, especially considering how hypocritical they may be, but since he's a knight and all perhaps his dictates will be forced on us peasants

Queen to Knight's pawns.

[The Mirrorball Man]

I could really care less about Elton's thoughts
Really? What could make you care less?

[Paradox]

Hey, no fair making fun of American misuse of English, ya damned furriner!!!


Mostly 'cause it's WAAAAY too easy. :p

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Hey, no fair making fun of American misuse of English, ya damned furriner!!!


Mostly 'cause it's WAAAAY too easy. :p

A lot of people think we're just English speaking foreigners Para.

[king mob]

You'd have to prove that the poster was influenced by religion first. If he wasn't influenced by religion, then that turns Elton's argument on it's head, as it shows that people will be "lemmings" with or without religion.

I know plenty of non-religious people, and many of them use the word "gay" as a derogatory term.

True. The great pity with Elton is that if he hadn't called for religion to be banned he'd have people talking about homophobia and the part religion plays in that.

The actual interview with Jake Shears of Scissor Sisters containing Elton's comments was printed in last week's Observer. I don't think this has been posted yet.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,,1942193,00.html

[king mob]

Though feel free to blame my crappy American education if I'm wrong about British royalty's involvement in legislation. Point being, I've got worlds' more anxiety about a Bible-thumping President than I do over your Queen being head of the Church. Tony Blair's actions seem more relevant. Or would that be incorrect to state, that your prime minister holds more true power than royalty in the UK?




The Queen holds no real power beyond a few ceremonial roles. There are powers she can use but it's highly unlikely she would. However the fact she even plays a role is utterly ridiculous.

[Spackling Compound]

http://www.wvip.co.uk/images/dvd/LionKing/LionKing_1.jpg
Damn religious ceremonies...next thing they'll do is sing some song about circles of life or some crap....

[Kid Omega]

When I read this on the Globe and Mail online, I had to read it twice to make sure I was reading it correctly. You know for some reason I've had respect for John. There was something about him, and his various struggles in his life I could identify with. But that's all changed after what he said about religion.

Any respect I had for Elton John, has completely dissapated. Thank God I never invested any of my money in his records.


I love your work on SPIDER-MAN, Mr. Ditko!

[Spike-X]

I think a great number of atheist types tend to ignore the likelihood that if religion were just magically snuffed out, right off, more harm would come of it than good.

"A great number of atheist types" don't want religion abolished, they just want it to leave them and others alone.

[Drew Van T.]

http://www.wvip.co.uk/images/dvd/LionKing/LionKing_1.jpg
Damn religious ceremonies...next thing they'll do is sing some song about circles of life or some crap....

But that was such a neutral song (probably carefully crafted as such by Disney), the lyrics of which are so vague and generalistic that they could just as easily be interpreted as referring to the biological circle of conception, growth and decay, rather than to anything explicitly religious.

At most, the song can be said to have undertones of animism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism), which is such a primitive and undeveloped belief that it is more a pre-religion than a religion.

[Spackling Compound]

But that was such a neutral song (probably carefully crafted as such by Disney) which could just as easily be interpreted as referring to the biological circle of conception, growth and decay, rather than to anything explicitly religious.

At most, the song can be said to have undertones of animism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism), which is such a primitive and undeveloped belief that it is more a pre-religion than a religion.

The....life...it....has.....been.....sucked....out .........

[Drew Van T.]

The....life...it....has.....been.....sucked....out .........

But it's fun to deflate the religious. Nice, clean, secular fun.

[Kid Omega]

But it's fun to deflate the religious. Nice, clean, secular fun.

It's not religion you've deflated... it's the funny.

[kidpernicious]

"A great number of atheist types" don't want religion abolished, they just want it to leave them and others alone.
My personally being a great atheist type, and having known and had innumerable conversations with a great number of great to not-so-great atheist types, I'm referring to personal experience. A vast number of atheists I've talked with, online, offline, friends and non-friends, share this oddly familiar knee-jerk reaction to the suggestion that religion isn't entirely bad, and do in fact have this notion stuck in their head that religion ought to be completely done away with, ASAP. Obviously that doesn't work as a sweeping generalization of ALL atheists. Which is why I only stated "A great number"...

Apparently you didn't quite catch the meaning of the phrase.

[Tadhg Adams]

My personally being a great atheist type, and having known and had innumerable conversations with a great number of great to not-so-great atheist types, I'm referring to personal experience.

Mmm. Anecdotes.

Obviously that doesn't work as a sweeping generalization of ALL atheists. Which is why I only stated "A great number"...

It's still a sweeping generalization.

Apparently you didn't quite catch the meaning of the phrase.

Condescending too. Delicious.

[Spackling Compound]

It's not religion you've deflated... it's the funny.

Deflated and burned with the Anthropology and Religion 101 lesson.

God, what was that thing you said about the balloon? He did that.

[Mike Smith]

Really? What could make you care less?

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1159/twain2au7.jpg Haha, good catch. All I have in my defense is being prone to use local color every so often.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

All this has me convinced of one thing.

http://galleries.lycos.co.uk/d/2480-3/cel4.jpg

http://static.tv4.se/imagesdb/editor/kandis/4BAB1025-396E-4ECB-9E36-630E1F760D90.jpg


"Sharon" and Liza Minelli married brothers from the same family.

[kidpernicious]

Mmm. Anecdotes.



It's still a sweeping generalization.



Condescending too. Delicious.
You're cute. You win. Thanks to all involved for putting me in my place.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

You're cute. You win. Thanks to all involved for putting me in my place.

Curefreak? Is that you?

[The Mirrorball Man]

Hey, no fair making fun of American misuse of English, ya damned furriner!!!


Mostly 'cause it's WAAAAY too easy. :p
Being a big fan of your language, some grammar errors make me cringe.

... welcome to Dangling Modifier Wood, by the way.

[Rabid Trekkie]

But that was such a neutral song (probably carefully crafted as such by Disney), the lyrics of which are so vague and generalistic that they could just as easily be interpreted as referring to the biological circle of conception, growth and decay, rather than to anything explicitly religious.

So Disney avoided religion to teach kids about sex!

[Paradox]

Kid Omega points out:

It's not religion you've deflated... it's the funny.

Yeah! TheTen-EyedMan doesn't need you sucking the funny out of his posts!


He's perfectly capable of doing that on his own. :)

[Paradox]

The Mirrorball Man thinks we fail English? Unpossible!:

Being a big fan of your language, some grammar errors make me cringe.

... welcome to Dangling Modifier Wood, by the way.

I was going to make it much worse, but I didn't want to take the time to beat into submission the English teacher that lives in my head.

It's only one...there's a full staff in there haranguing me all the time...

[The Mirrorball Man]

I was going to make it much worse, but I didn't want to take the time to beat into submission the English teacher that lives in my head.

It's only one...there's a full staff in there haranguing me all the time...
If you ever feel the need to correct my typos or my grammar, please do it. I'm basically clueless and I appreciate all the help I can get.

[Paradox]

You learned English as a second language. It's likely you speak more properly than 99% of the natives. :)

[TheTen-EyedMan]

Yeah! TheTen-EyedMan doesn't need you sucking the funny out of his posts!


He's perfectly capable of doing that on his own. :)

Para...I'll go you with a monkey if you're not careful.

http://www.usarchy.com/wp-content/photos/usarchy_angry_monkey_fullpic.jpg

[Paradox]

God no! Don't go me!!! :eek:

Waitaminute...what???