OK - so what classic Marvel series should never get an Essential book?

[Simon Garth]

I just read, with utter amazement, that there's an Essential Godzilla book - the mind truly boggles.

What series (if any), from the 60s/70s do you think was so misconceived / badly executed / downright lame that it should never get an Essentials?

[scratchie]

I just read, with utter amazement, that there's an Essential Godzilla book - the mind truly boggles.

What series (if any), from the 60s/70s do you think was so misconceived / badly executed / downright lame that it should never get an Essentials?Spider-Woman
Super-Villain Team-Up

Oh, whoops.

[Slam_Bradley]

Spider-Woman
Super-Villain Team-Up

Oh, whoops.

I'm pretty fond of Super-Villain Team-Up. Weird and inconsistent, but fun book.

Moving forward from the 60s-70s...Team America and NFL Super-pro.

[Mark Wallace]

I just read, with utter amazement, that there's an Essential Godzilla book - the mind truly boggles.

What series (if any), from the 60s/70s do you think was so misconceived / badly executed / downright lame that it should never get an Essentials?
I think the Essentials should stop as soon as they hit non-essential points, and should not be completely sequential -- ie. that they should skip the crap comics, and move from high-point to high-point.

Essential early Inhumans? sure. Essential Micronauts? sure. Essential Jungle Action? You bet! Essential mindless Avengers stories? Ferget it.

Maybe they're using a different definition of "essential" to the rest of us:

Essential (adj,): necessary to fleece money out of comic readers, so that useless idiots can afford big houses and expensive holidays.

[scratchie]

Maybe they're using a different definition of "essential" to the rest of usDidn't you know? Everything Marvel ever published is "Essential". Unless it's a "Masterwork". :D

[benday-dot]

Is there anything Essential about the original Dazzler run, other than as a curio period piece?

[Roquefort Raider]

Essential Obnoxio is something I never want to see.

[MWGallaher]

I think you're being way too harsh, Mark. I can't think of any pre-1980 Marvel series that ran long enough to fit an Essential volume that wouldn't merit availability in the ultra-cheap b&w newsprint phonebook collections. I'm not especially interested, in, say, Nova or Ms. Marvel or She-Hulk, but I think a reader would get his or her $16 worth out of a massive compilation, even if they were, to my eyes, sub-par comics.
In fact, I think Godzilla was one of the more delightful of the collections, and I really wish they'd saved the Ant-Man volume 'til now, when the extended page count would have accomodated the 70's revival with great work from Herb Trimpe.
Is it really "Essential"? No, of course not, but that's just a tag they borrowed from the companies compiling greatest hits CDs from musicians that have gone out of favor with the majority of the listening audience. Thanks for Godzilla, and Human Torch, and Ant-Man, and Zombie, and Man-Thing, and Werewolf by Night, and Frankenstein--those are some of my favorites! Bring on Morbius, Ka-Zar, Captain Savage!

[shaxper]

Essential Devil Dinosaur

[Hombre]

I think you're being way too harsh, Mark.

You think so? I think he his more than entitled to his opinion.

I'm fairly sure, at any rate, that the "Essential Mindless Avengers" stories he speaks of include just about everything published before Kurt Busiek and George Perez relaunched the series.

Of course, there's many that would agree with him that that's all they were.

Who knows? Perhaps it's best the readers of today never have a chance to read them.

[Reptisaurus!]

I just read, with utter amazement, that there's an Essential Godzilla book - the mind truly boggles.

What series (if any), from the 60s/70s do you think was so misconceived / badly executed / downright lame that it should never get an Essentials?

I thought Champions was downright horrible for the first 8-9 issues. But it got reprinted.

I can't think of any book that was worse from Marvel pre-1980.

[dan bailey]

I thought Champions was downright horrible for the first 8-9 issues. But it got reprinted.



Ah, but not as an Essential, y'know. ;)

Actually, as I've noted elsewhere, I liked those first few ishes; not sure when I stopped reading it (or if I stopped reading it ... looking back, I probably stuck around to the end of the run). To each his own, of course.

[MWGallaher]

I think you're being way too harsh, Mark.
Oops...I misread the thread and thought Mark Wallace was the initiator rather than Simon Garth. I didn't mean to sound like I was trashing Mark's preference for skipping the low points, although I personally prefer getting the full package in these collections.

And I trust that Simon didn't take any offense at my accusation of "harshness", either. I bet he's not too surprised to find that some of us love ESSENTIAL GODZILLA, nor would he be surprised to find that some of us (although not me!) would scoff at ESSENTIAL TALES OF THE ZOMBIE (of which I'm presuming he approves!).

[Graham Vingoe]

theres not a lot to add to this debate- Different people want different titles to be colleceted irrespective of format. I'll never see the attraction of the Essential She-Hulk for example, but there are 100's of people who, I presume would. I don't think any title can be deemed unworthy of collection as an essential.

Unless its written by Chuck Austen, of course;)

[MichikoS]

"Essentials" is just a marketing rubric and a way to provide some consistency to back-catalog reprinting. Since all of this inventory is bought and paid for, and any sales are basically pure profit, there is no reason whatever that ALL the dreck (Human Fly, Obnoxio, NFL Superpro, Champions, Best of Chuck Austen) published in the past won't eventually show up.

For every title I personally never want to see again in this lifetime, there's somebody who has a soft spot for it and would even spend money to buy it in an Essentials format. Go figure. I'm sure Marvel has noticed that, too.

And how about this 1980's-1990's "nostalgia" wave peaking at Marvel now, with New Universe, Onslaught and other very bad ideas being brought back for a second airing?

I summon the profit motive! (Sorry, Cei-U)

Michi

[Simon Garth]

Oops...I misread the thread and thought Mark Wallace was the initiator rather than Simon Garth. I didn't mean to sound like I was trashing Mark's preference for skipping the low points, although I personally prefer getting the full package in these collections.

And I trust that Simon didn't take any offense at my accusation of "harshness", either. I bet he's not too surprised to find that some of us love ESSENTIAL GODZILLA, nor would he be surprised to find that some of us (although not me!) would scoff at ESSENTIAL TALES OF THE ZOMBIE (of which I'm presuming he approves!).##

No I don't take offence - if this forum has proved nothing else, it's that no matter how much one might dislike a creator or book, there's always someone that loves them (Godzille + Trimpe being a case in point. To my mind, it would have been improved by having Godzilla draw it and Trimpe on the rampage, but each to their own). For example, I fondly remember the Claremont / Leiloioloaia (I have no idea how to spell his name!) SpiderWoman, which scratchie nominated for the dustbin of history (I'll readily admit that the early issues of that title were truly awful)

My nominations would cover most of the toy tie-ins: eg Rom (occasionally bearable, mostly awful) and particularly Shogun Warriors, which I had the misfortune to purchase mail order, thinking it was some kind of Samurai book :rolleyes:. That might have been Trimpe as well, to compound the misery ;)

PS (Funnily enough, I've got no great attraction to Tales of the Zombie - the user id started as a pun on a thread title rather an an homage).

[MDG]

"Essentials" is just a marketing rubric and a way to provide some consistency to back-catalog reprinting. Since all of this inventory is bought and paid for, and any sales are basically pure profit, there is no reason whatever that ALL the dreck (Human Fly, Obnoxio, NFL Superpro, Champions, Best of Chuck Austen) published in the past won't eventually show up....

And how about this 1980's-1990's "nostalgia" wave peaking at Marvel now, with New Universe, Onslaught and other very bad ideas being brought back for a second airing?

Except that there's not enough of many of these titles to fill an Essentials volume. Unless it's titled:

"The Essential Worst Marvel Comics Ever"

MDG

[david r]

Essential Spider-Clone Saga
Essential Night Nurse

[Tobias March]

Except that there's not enough of many of these titles to fill an Essentials volume. Unless it's titled:

"The Essential Worst Marvel Comics Ever"

MDG

Y'know that might not be a bad idea for the sadists out there. Commission Matt Groening to draw a cover with Comic Book Guy and you got yourself a collector's item :D

[Hombre]

And I trust that Simon didn't take any offense at my accusation of "harshness", either.

My dear friend, you're way too nice a fellow for that. You may have missed, perhaps, a slight subtext of sadness in my observation.

Incidentally, I personally am of the persuasion that the next Essential Avengers - containing the bulk of Steve Englehart's run - will contain some of the very finest and most important comics in the history of Marvel.

[Red Oak Kid]

I thought I'd just throw these out there:

Thongor

Living Mummy

Man-Wolf

Brother Voodoo

[dan bailey]

... the first 3 of which I'd definitely go for, & the 4th of which I'd probably pick up someday, too. (Except that you might have to combine all 4 to fill up one Essential, & even that might not do it.)

"One man's meat ..."

[Red Oak Kid]

... the first 3 of which I'd definitely go for, & the 4th of which I'd probably pick up someday, too. (Except that you might have to combine all 4 to fill up one Essential, & even that might not do it.)
"

OK, throw in It, The Living Colossus to fill it up.

[Roquefort Raider]

I thought I'd just throw these out there:

Thongor

Living Mummy

Man-Wolf

Brother Voodoo


Hey! I would be interested in an essential Thongor, too! (I would if I didn't have all his appearances already, that is). I doubt it would happen even if there was an interest for this minor Conan rip-off, though, because like Fu Manchu he was a licensed character.

Just proving that there are very few comics bad enough for everyone to dislike them! ;)

[benday-dot]

I remember back in the 70's seeing ads for Arrgh! within my favourite titles. I was pretty young back then, and wasn't much interested in either horror or humour, being a straight up superhero fan.

I never have gazed on any of the pages of the 5 issues of Arrgh that saw print. So I don't know if they had much going for them, but where, oh where, do you suppose Marvel would throw in this little run if they are to carry on the Essential franchise to its outer limits?

Maybe within an Essential Brand Ech fronted humour compilation... that would be kinda cool.

[MWGallaher]

My memory's a bit fuzzy on this, but I believe Arrgh! was in fact copyright Ross Andru and Mike Esposito (if it wasn't this, it was one of the other Mad-like humor comics Marvel published in the 70's, like Spoof or Crazy, the color comic book version). Whichever book it was included some reprints of Ross & Mike's 50's Mad imitation, Get Lost.

[Aaron Kashtan]

Hey! I would be interested in an essential Thongor, too! (I would if I didn't have all his appearances already, that is). I doubt it would happen even if there was an interest for this minor Conan rip-off, though, because like Fu Manchu he was a licensed character.

Just proving that there are very few comics bad enough for everyone to dislike them! ;)

Wouldn't it be funny if someone started a series called Universally Disliked Comics, and then it went on to win multiple Eisner awards?

[scratchie]

My memory's a bit fuzzy on this, but I believe Arrgh! was in fact copyright Ross Andru and Mike Esposito (if it wasn't this, it was one of the other Mad-like humor comics Marvel published in the 70's, like Spoof or Crazy, the color comic book version). Whichever book it was included some reprints of Ross & Mike's 50's Mad imitation, Get Lost.I've recently picked up a few of these. It looks like Arrgh #5 is reprints of the 50s Andru/Esposito stuff (and copyright by them as well), but I think the earlier issues were current; e.g., Issue 1 has a Tom Sutton-penciled story.

[JKCarrier]

How about THE ESSENTIAL STAR COMICS: Royal Roy, Planet Terry, The Get-Along Gang, et. al.? I think that one would qualify as child abuse. :D

[Allan Harvey]

How about THE ESSENTIAL STAR COMICS: Royal Roy, Planet Terry, The Get-Along Gang, et. al.? I think that one would qualify as child abuse. :D

Be careful what you wish for: Peter Porker, the Amazing Spider-Ham is coming back to comics courtesy of JM Straczynski....

[glue]

Essential Devil Dinosaur


If there are enough comics to fill one I'd buy that in a second.

[benday-dot]

MW Gallaher and Scratchie... thanks for the insight into Arrgh!. I had no idea what this all but forgotten series had to offer.

[Indigo Al]

"Essentials" is just a marketing rubric and a way to provide some consistency to back-catalog reprinting. Since all of this inventory is bought and paid for, and any sales are basically pure profit, there is no reason whatever that ALL the dreck (Human Fly, Obnoxio, NFL Superpro, Champions, Best of Chuck Austen) published in the past won't eventually show up.

For every title I personally never want to see again in this lifetime, there's somebody who has a soft spot for it and would even spend money to buy it in an Essentials format. Go figure. I'm sure Marvel has noticed that, too.

And how about this 1980's-1990's "nostalgia" wave peaking at Marvel now, with New Universe, Onslaught and other very bad ideas being brought back for a second airing?

I summon the profit motive! (Sorry, Cei-U)

Michi

Exactly. It's not really a question of what "should" or "should not" get the Essentials treatment. If there's a market for it, then yeah, Marvel should Essentialize it.

In the case of Godzilla, I heard a lot of speculators bought it since it was a one-time permission granted to Marvel to print this. (If you look at what Essential Conan is going for on Amazon, I think people thought Essential Godzilla would come to this as well). http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Conan-Barbarian-1-25/dp/0785107517

[T GUy]

shaxper,
Essential Devil Dinosaur

Quite right - it should be available in a colour hardback.

[Mark Wallace]

I think you're being way too harsh, Mark. I can't think of any pre-1980 Marvel series that ran long enough to fit an Essential volume that wouldn't merit availability in the ultra-cheap b&w newsprint phonebook collections. I'm not especially interested, in, say, Nova or Ms. Marvel or She-Hulk, but I think a reader would get his or her $16 worth out of a massive compilation, even if they were, to my eyes, sub-par comics.

Hmm. Yeah, well, maybe.

But you'd probably find that you could buy the originals of such titles for less than the cost of a B&W Essentials.

I remember, though, back in the 70s, DC released huge Batman & Superman anthologies ("from the Thirties to the Seventies", as I recall it).

I absolutely adored those books! Sure, the stories were all typical DC stories from that (those?) era(s), but the way the stories had been selected and put together, showing the sequence of changes the charactes had been through was wonderful!

THAT was an "Essential".

Reprinting every dire story in sequence, so that you get one, maybe two stories worth reading per "Essential" is not the way to go.



In fact, I think Godzilla was one of the more delightful of the collections, and I really wish they'd saved the Ant-Man volume 'til now, when the extended page count would have accomodated the 70's revival with great work from Herb Trimpe.
Is it really "Essential"? No, of course not, but that's just a tag they borrowed from the companies compiling greatest hits CDs from musicians that have gone out of favor with the majority of the listening audience. Thanks for Godzilla, and Human Torch, and Ant-Man, and Zombie, and Man-Thing, and Werewolf by Night, and Frankenstein--those are some of my favorites! Bring on Morbius, Ka-Zar, Captain Savage!
If Lee were still running things, he'd release such albums as "MARVEL NON-ESSENTIALS! A Cheap and Cheerful History of Marvel!"

People would probably buy them in larger numbers, and not be disappointed when they got home and (tried to) read them.

An ounce of creativity! An ounce of creativity! My kingdom for an ounce of creativity!


(But I ain't got a kingdom, and too many "creators" and marketers ain't got an ounce of creativity.)

[Mark Wallace]

Didn't you know? Everything Marvel ever published is "Essential". Unless it's a "Masterwork". :D
Lemme just check...

Damnit, you're right! I've been using the wrong style manual!

[Allan Harvey]

I remember, though, back in the 70s, DC released huge Batman & Superman anthologies ("from the Thirties to the Seventies", as I recall it).



They were wonderful books. There was a Shazam! volume too. I remember finding a copy of Batman: From the 30s to the 70s on my 14th birthday and I didn't come up for air for a week.