Pipeline Bookclub 9th November - Promethea Book 1

[dancj]

I seem to be the first one here, so I'll start the thread.....

(For anyone who's late, this is the Pipeline Bookclub which for the next ten(ish) weeks will discuss a volume of Promethea every two weeks)

This week it's Promethea book 1. I'll start with some very basic thoughts rather than any in depth analysis.

Personally I enjoyed the book. I like the ongoing story of the Mayor and the Weeping Gorilla bits are great! The story began to bore me a touch around issue 5 where it got very expository, but for the most part this volume keeps all of that magic nonsense reasonably under control.

I was a little annoyed to find a couple of double page spreads where I only realised they were double page spreads after having read the left hand page. I hate that - It throws me out of the story.

Dan

[pmpknface]

Dan, you're too quick! It's only 9am and you're already here! ;)

I've been looking forward to talking about this book for some time. I feel like I've got a lot to say but I'm not totally sure where to begin. What is also going to make these posts difficult for me is that I've read through the whole series and I don't want to spoil anything for anyone. That said... let's go!

I loved the introduction to this collection. At first you don't know why your reading about this stuff, and then you feel like you are being told too much. But, my dear readers, TRUST IN ALAN! :p As soon as you start getting into the story , you realize that it was all just one giant recap page to give you proper background to the reading journey you're about to begin.

As this is my 2nd time reading this story from start to finish (and I've read this vol at least 4 times now) I can see so much of what is being forshadowed. Not only that, but I now get a much better understanding of what Moore was tried to do with this series.

In issue 5, page 13 we get a line from the Margret Promethea:
Promethea makes people aware of the vast immaterial realm. Maybe tempts them to explore it.
In a nutshell, there it is. Towards the end of this volume, Moore starts getting into explaining the Immateria and Hy Brazil and all the other magical placees and how they interact and why it matters. This is just the beginning of that, and it's something that I just get lost in and love every second of it. But in all this explination, Moore is doing a bunch of different things.

One of which is explaining his view of how the world of magic works. I find this facinating. The other is telling a story (the comic) about "a story" (Promethea, the character) and in doing so makes people aware of the vast immaterial realm and igintes our own imaginations. How far will he go to bring the character to life and us into the story? Just keep reading...

All this and I haven't mentioned the unreal art of JH Wiliams III, whom without this comic would not have been the same. Sure, a fill in by Charles Vess and the occasional cover by Alex Ross didn't hurt either, but I have never before or since seen any artist stretch themselves and create so many new storytelling techinques.

Just a few examples:

The panels within panels from the end of issue 2
the constant use of double page spreads, no 2 of which are exactly alike
the varying spreads, that occasionally have borders, but again sometimes uses them IN the storytelling (#1, pgs. 7-8).

And while I'm at it, Mick Gray and Todd Kelin also kocked this one out of the park. Without the colors or lettering this book also would NOT have been the same. I think Gray is relpaced later, but he set the tone (HA!) and did a hell of a job.

All this, and I'm not even getting into how cool most of the characters are. We barely know anything about the Five Swell Guys, the Painted Doll, or the Mayor. But we've totally bought into this version of 1999 (which was when this series started) with the help of TEXTure, the Weeping Gorilla, and other various character flaws / traits.

My advise to you, read this slowly. Digest as much as you can. Go back and look at what you just read after you read it. These pages are dripping with story goodness that just begs to be read.

I hope to hear from more of you on this soon!

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Here's my original review of PROMETHEA #1 from Pipeline #105, one of the first I wrote for CBR, 08 June 1999:

PROMETHEA is another terrific Alan Moore comic from America's Best Comics. (It's getting harder and harder to argue with that name, don'tcha think?) Moore touches on ground here that others have considered -- the idea of a spirit inhabiting different hosts through the years. Heck, it's even something he touched upon for THE NEW SHADOWHAWK a few years ago. But this one is pulled off really well, with some nice art from J.H. Williams III and Mick Gray. The lead character seems to be the sane and curious one in a world full of weirdos. Her language is pretty well worked out.

Two storytelling choices stood out at me: The first is the use of the "widescreen" or "cinemascope" panels. I've liked this idea for awhile now, and it seems to be coming more and more into its own. More creators are using it, it seems. Alan Moore does so here to great affect, using it only in the flashback sequences, which feel like something out of a movie anyway.

The second is the annoying thing. What's with the patterns and designs around the border? It distracted me when Chris Bachalo used them in the DEATH mini-series. It still bugs me here. I suppose it's very artistic and fills up some negative space, but it just annoys me. This is, however, a very minor bone of contention when it comes to this comic.

Clearly, the book was so new that I didn't know quite what to make of it.

The "Bachaloesque" designs in the borders made more graphic sense as the series went on, and become decorative and fitting to the theme. It didn't bug me after the second or third issue, basically.

And, of course, the exploration of magic wasn't firmly established just yet. That would come later, particularly in the Scrabble issue or the sex issue. But with the first issue, it was a solid comic, but one I didn't fully grasp yet.

Wow, it's painful to go back and read your writings from seven years ago. You sound so -- cliche, fanboyish, choppy. . .

-Augie

[pmpknface]

The only time the borders bothered me was in 2-pg spreads where I wasn't sure to read all the way across or 1 page at a time (we'll talk about this more when we get to the Mobius strip). But that only happened once here, issue 4 pgs. 6-7, when the Prometheas were looking into the scrying pool and spying on Sophie in the city. And that didn't confuse me at all, really.

In the same issue, pages 18-19, we get the 2 pager with Sophie holding hands with Jack the Faust. Here we have borders on the left and right of Promethea / Sophie & Jack / his "glamour" with 8 panels inbetween, and somehow it works!!! The dialogue doesnt' get mixed up or isn't harder to read or understand, instead it's just flows naturally.

We know that Moore constructs very detailed scripts, but I'd love to know how much of this was his doing and how much was Williams'.

Plus, with pages like this cropping up it's easy to see how Klein's work was so valuable. He's got SO MUCH dialogue to add to a page, yet covering anything must have been painful! It all looks so good on the page!

[goman]

I had some time to kill last week, so I went to Borders and read the first trade, figured I may as well join in the conversation. I have to say, it was pretty much what I expected. Beautiful to look at, very innovative. I haven't read that much of Williams work, but from the little I have read, I can tell he's a gifted story-teller. I know there was one page where I wasn't sure the order of the dialogue, but I caught up pretty easily. I never know if it's my own fault when I can't follow dialogue, or if it's the creators fault. I liked all the backgorund details in the city spreads, all the different billboards and store names. It was cool how they set out all the little differences between the comic world and our world. Character designs are also great, particularly the different versions of Promethia, and how they tied into each versions personality.

I liked the "story" part of the book, but was less thrilled with the philosophical wanderings of Moore. It was what I was worried would turn me off, and it pretty much did. I have no problem with creators exploring their own thoughts and ideas in the pages of thier works, in fact they definetly should, it's just that his world view and mine do not match, and there's some fundamental differences that can't or won't be changed. Moore has his beliefs, and I have mine, I just don't feel like reading about his that much. That said, he expresses those beliefs very well, it's easy for me to follow along and understand what he is trying to get across. It doesn't bog down the story, and there's usually something exciting about to happen on the next page. It's just a personal thing that is going to stop me from enjoying the series as much as others might.

I can apprecieate the craft that went into the book. If you're reading Moore, you know you're going to get an exciting and well done comic. I just didn't love the it. There's enough interesting stuff in the first trade that I would read the second trade if I had time to kill and I didn't have to pay for it, but I don't knwo if I would buy it.

[De Carabas]

Leaving early for a long weekend away, so I can only post quick impressions.

This was my second read thorugh for this voulme (volume four will be new territory for me), and I loved it so much more the second time. Like Augie's review and Jamie's comments, this volume only barely begins to hint at where the series is going to go.

I spent considerably more time looking at the art this read through. WOW. Don't ge tme wrong. I absolutely loved it before, but the first time I read anything, I always get caught up in the story and tend to skip from one word balloon to the next. That is a crime and I need to stop doing it. From panle borders to double page spreads, this book could be seen as a challenge to other artists to step up their game. A challenge that (sadly) not many took up.

RE: double page dialogue confusions==>
Powers I often get lost on double page spreads. Here, I never once was in doubt. Maybe because I stopped to look at each page first (remember, having already read it once before I was going slow and studying the art, allowing myself to catch up to the story when ready), and saw the pattern.

OK, this was longer than I intended. I'll have other thoughts later if this thread is still hot on Monday.

EM

[dancj]

I liked the "story" part of the book, but was less thrilled with the philosophical wanderings of Moore. It was what I was worried would turn me off, and it pretty much did.
[snip]
It doesn't bog down the story, and there's usually something exciting about to happen on the next page.
It gets worse in later volumes. Some issues - such as the Tarot one - Go on like that for a whole issue and if you don't believe in and have no interest in magic they're a hell of a slog.

[dancj]

RE: double page dialogue confusions==>
Powers I often get lost on double page spreads.
Bendis books are the worst offenders by far - and what makes them worse is that you often can't work out the order of the panels even after reading them. His dialogue is so disjointed that it reads just as well in the wrong order

[pmpknface]

Bendis books are the worst offenders by far - and what makes them worse is that you often can't work out the order of the panels even after reading them. His dialogue is so disjointed that it reads just as well in the wrong order
This happens not only in Powers but in Ult Spidey all the time. What I "try" to look for, is if the top row of panels crosses over into the next page, then I know to read it all the way across. But you're right Dan, Bendis does call for these pages a lot.

Oh - I've been lending books to a friend of mine for a year or so now, and Since I already posted about this vol. I gave it to him to read. I can't wait to see what he thinks, as this'll be his 1st Alan Moore book. Spread the love! :D

[pmpknface]

Just saw this on newsarama...

ALAN MOORE TO APPEAR IN THE SIMPSONS (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=90598)

It’s only natural really, though it may sound odd-ish. Alan Moore is going to guest star on an episode of The Simpsons.

According to Nothants News.com, the ball began rolling last summer when Melinda Gebbie, Moore’s collaborator on Lost Girls and fiancée was in the US for Comic-Con and to promote Lost Girls. As the paper reports, Moore is a long-time fan of The Simpsons, and was thrilled with the idea when it was pitched to him after a producer from the series approached Gebbie.

"I was happy to do it. I'm a big fan of The Simpsons." Moore told the paper. And – for those keeping track of Moore’s affection for US-produced animation, the writer has revealed to Newsarama and other outlets that he’s also a huge fan of South Park.

As for Moore’s storyline, he will voice a character in a subplot which sees a new “cool” comic shop opening in Springfield, in competition with Android’s Dungeon (operated by wince-inducing Comic Book Guy). No air date for the episode, entitled "Husbands and Knives" has been announced.

[pmpknface]

Just a quick observation (and a reason to bump the thread a bit)...

The next Promethea book "due date" if we stick to our schedule will be Thanksgiving day, 11/23. Should we keep it or move it? For reference, in the past we've pushed it off by 1 week.

[De Carabas]

I vote to bump it back. I don't think we need the time to read, but there will be little to no posting that week, I suspect.

His dialogue is so disjointed that it reads just as well in the wrong order
I'm a big Bendis fan. I really really am. But I confess to not noticing the missing page in that infamous issue of Powers a couple years ago.

EM

[dancj]

Thanksgiving day? What's that then?

[pmpknface]

Thanksgiving day? What's that then?
We in the US gather togather to stuff our faces stupid on food and whatever beverages we can get our hands on. Oh, and we say thanks for all the good comics we're read in the past year. :D

Dan - If you wanna post on 11/23 you go right ahead! We'll get there eventually...

[dancj]

Nah - I don't mind waiting an extra week

[goman]

I saw that Alan Moore is also going to be on Fanboy Radio today. Should make for interesting listening, although the conversation will probably swing more towards Lost Girls than it will Promethea, but it might come up.

[pmpknface]

Alan is also facinating to listen to, and he doesn't sound much like I'd expect him to. I have the "Alan Moore Spells it Out" book and I hunted down Eddie Campbell's EGOMANIA #3 with the extenisve Moore interview and they are both excellent reads.

I'll bring up the EGOMANIA ish again when we get to the Moebius strip. ;)

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Alan Moore "Sub or Flub" might wind up being the most genius bit of podcasting ever produced, if Scott goes for it. =)

-Augie

[goman]

Alan Moore "Sub or Flub" might wind up being the most genius bit of podcasting ever produced, if Scott goes for it. =)

-Augie

"So Alan, film versions of your books? Sub or Flub?"

**Klick**

"Alan? Alan? Mr. Moore? I think we lost him."

Question: As an interviewer, would you call him Alan, Mr. Moore, or other?

[pmpknface]

I'd call him whatever the hell he wants. I'd be afraid of waking up as a frog one morning or something...

[De Carabas]

I'd call him whatever the hell he wants. I'd be afraid of waking up as a frog one morning or something...
ROTFLMAO!!!

EM

[pmpknface]

OK all... just a reminder to take your Promethea vol 2 with you on your travels this holiday weekend and be ready to post here on 11/30!

:D

[torippu]

"So Alan, film versions of your books? Sub or Flub?"

**Klick**

"Alan? Alan? Mr. Moore? I think we lost him."

Question: As an interviewer, would you call him Alan, Mr. Moore, or other?
I just listened to the Alan Moore episode of FanBoy Radio and will have to admit that that is probably the best hour from Scott and the FBR gang yet.

[Augie De Blieck Jr.]

Yeah, as much fun as we had with the idea of Alan Moore Sub Or Flub, I have to agree with you. It was Scott and Oliver's finest hour.

The comics podcasting bar has been raised once more.

-Augie

[dancj]

Only 3 days to go!

Time to get reading....

[pmpknface]

Finished it yesterday! ;)

[dancj]

I'm just over halfway through with the Tarot issue looming ahead of me. I really hated that issue the first time round - I'm preparing myself for a slog

[pmpknface]

I left that one to read on it's own day, because it's a LOT to digest. I ended up reading it and then going over it a few times.

You know that that whole story is 1 big consecutive image? Like the old Marvel Handbook covers? ;)

[dancj]

You know that that whole story is 1 big consecutive image? Like the old Marvel Handbook covers? ;)

Oh yeah - I guess that makes it like the final issue only done right. Anyway I'll shut up for now. We should be having this conversation in tomorrow's thread...