What's the Deal With Batman's Eyes?

[MaxofSteel]

Not to sound controversial at all, since I do love me some Batman eyes, but I have to ask: Is there still a need for them to be white?

I realize thats how they were drawn since his debut, and that they're meant to conceal his identity and all, but isn't it about time he had 'em changed?

The Flash doesn't need white eyes. Movie Batman doesn't need white eyes (although, given the medium, white eyes in a live action film would'nt really work anyway).

Two things would be accomplished visuallly by removing the white eyes:
1. We'd get to see more facial emotion from the character (rather than just from body language and dialogue) and
2. We'd be able to see his pupils look around the corner of his eyes at someone behind him (I figure this is a tricky manuever with artists in this situation).

Some would argue changing Bat's eyes would be like cutting Superman's iconic spitcurl off, but I myself wouldn't mind seeing wide open slits (a la Captain America) for his eyes, at least as a temporary thing.

Anybody agree? Disagree?

[Joe Acro]

I just want to point out that Alex Ross does draw/paint Batman with actual eyes.

[Kara Zor El]

Not to sound controversial at all, since I do love me some Batman eyes, but I have to ask: Is there still a need for them to be white?

I realize thats how they were drawn since his debut, and that they're meant to conceal his identity and all, but isn't it about time he had 'em changed?

The Flash doesn't need white eyes. Movie Batman doesn't need white eyes (although, given the medium, white eyes in a live action film would'nt really work anyway).

Two things would be accomplished visuallly by removing the white eyes:
1. We'd get to see more facial emotion from the character (rather than just from body language and dialogue) and
2. We'd be able to see his pupils look around the corner of his eyes at someone behind him (I figure this is a tricky manuever with artists in this situation).

Some would argue changing Bat's eyes would be like cutting Superman's iconic spitcurl off, but I myself wouldn't mind seeing wide open slits (a la Captain America) for his eyes, at least as a temporary thing.

Anybody agree? Disagree?

I disagree. I like the white eyes. They are a comic book thing. They can also still show a lot of emotion, if not more. Just think of all the emotion you see in the white eyes of Batman: TAS. That opening sequence when they bulge.

They are meant to be lenses and they protect his eyes from dust, etc.

[stillanerd]

Well, there was a reason why Batman's eyes looked white, according to Batman: The Complete History


[Bill] Finger also objected to the way the eyes behind the mask appeared and urged [Bob] Kane to turn them into simple white spots. "It looked more like a bat at night when the eyes glow," conceded Kane.

And Bill Finger was right, in that Batman, especially in his first year, looked far more sinister with white eyes that looked like slits, along with his cape and cowl:

http://images.*************/G/GhostmanX/1122382232_hv1tpbn001.jpg

Course, the eyes could be yellow or even red, considering how the eye pieces in Batman's cowl are night/thermal vision lenses.

[MaxofSteel]

I disagree. I like the white eyes. They are a comic book thing. They can also still show a lot of emotion, if not more. Just think of all the emotion you see in the white eyes of Batman: TAS. That opening sequence when they bulge.

I see what you mean. The white eyes work in the animated sense, and very much so in comics too.

But if a creative team on Batman were to change them (like, say, the writers for Superman changed Supe's costume to electric blue) do you think there would be widespread opposition to this?

[Kara Zor El]

I see what you mean. The white eyes work in the animated sense, and very much so in comics too.

But if a creative team on Batman were to change them (like, say, the writers for Superman changed Supe's costume to electric blue) do you think there would be widespread opposition to this?

I think there would be opposition, because there are some fans who will always oppose change no matter what.
If DC said "from now on Batman Will always have visible eyes and never again have white slats then I could live with it. If the story telling was good then ultimately that is what matters. But I'd miss them but then I have all the back cataloge to draw on. I think the best thing is to let artists decide what they want to do and let them.
The ones going for ultra realism could then choose the visible eyes.
Alex Ross does visible eyes and it looks good. But I'd like to see him do the slats.

He has to wear black eye make up around his eyes when he has no slats. If you watch Batman Returns. The bit where he rips his mask of to show Selina Kyle he is Bruce, well leading up to that bit he has the make up on his skin around his eyes. But the moment before he rips the mask off he doesn't. That's so when he takes it off he aint got make up on. But in reality he would. He'd be like a panda bear.

[GRANT!]

He has to wear black eye make up around his eyes when he has no slats. If you watch Batman Returns. The bit where he rips his mask of to show Selina Kyle he is Bruce, well leading up to that bit he has the make up on his skin around his eyes. But the moment before he rips the mask off he doesn't. That's so when he takes it off he aint got make up on. But in reality he would. He'd be like a panda bear.

There is a bit in the Batman Begins script where Alfred reminds Bruce to wipe the makeup around his off before he enters the party.

I'm pro white eyes. They look cool and in comic art you can cheat and make them more expressive then they would be in real life. Whenever they give Batman real eyes in comics it looks kind of weird. Even in the Alex Ross books.

It would be difficult to pull off in the live action movies though. It's something the Spider-man movies stuggle with.

[Kaos]

true, but still it'd be a cool look. I prefer the white slits, it adds protection in case someone tries to kick dirt in his face.

[Joker2503]

From a story-telling and realism perspective, the covered eyes make a lot of sense. I like the idea of having night/thermal/whatever-vision in the eye coverings. Also, not being able to see Batman's eyes also works to his advantage in a fight. Plus, he has preotection.

Artistically, I see both sides. Seeing his eyes would certainly make it easier to read his emotions. However, the covered eyes work so much better to add to the fear aspects of Batman.

[Lester C.]

LOL. I always just assumed it was his nightvison lenses that allows him to see in pitch black which is why they are other colors as well.

[kel25]

I always saw the eyes as a tool and there is no point in going into detail since so many already touched upon it. So seeing him with actual eyes wouldn’t bother me but it would seem a little awkward. About the same as seeing him go into action without the belt.

[infoghost]

I am pro white eyes, all the way. One of my biggest beefs with ALL the movies is not having the white eyes. I think Batman is much more intimidating with them.

Also, he can use them as utilities - night vision, infrared, etc. I think I saw one comic where it was almost like a computer, had various readouts he could pull up. Not sure where I saw it.

And, they just look damn cool.

[phantom1592]

Depends on the artist. I've always just assumed they were open, just no details. Batman was the first I ever saw say he had lenses. Then Flash's were commmented on. And they never made any sense. Touching his temple activates heat, night, sonar, etc lenses?!?! on a form fitting mask? I could almost accept ONE kind of lense with an on/off switch, but multiple lense that slide into place (as described) rubbish.

Gets even worse when robin does. He's got a grand total of 1" all around his eyes for those lenses to slide out of :rolleyes:

Alex Ross can make the eyes look right, but when Robin was in Identity crisis... those real eyes just looked Weird. I'm having a hard time remembering right now, but I think they got rid of the White for Green Lantern. Sometimes he has had them in the past and sometimes he didn't.

[herozero]

Well, there was a reason why Batman's eyes looked white, according to Batman: The Complete History


That's cool. I always assumed it was just to save time, like the Simpsons/Mickey Mouse etc. only having 3 fingers. Ya know?

[Hellstormer]

I can see both sides of the arguements I personally like the whit eyes, its a comic book tihng something that hasn't changed for awhile as far as Batman and Wolverine taking away Batman's white eyes would be like taking away Cyclops visor (remembers Astonishing X-Men 17) O wait forget that example the point is they're cool and removing them or changing the character would make him seem like a more caring creature.

[BYC]

I like the blank/white eyes look.

I also believe the live-action Batman movies/series' would be better if Batman's cowl blocked his eyes. The eyes are very important of a person's looks, and there's numerous statements about eyes revealing a person's soul/inner self.

An urban legend/vilgante like Batman would enhance his image if his eyes are obscured.

[Alan2099]

Depends on the artist. I'm personally not picky.

[Hal Jordan Owns Marvel]

It explained somewhere that Batman had lenses on his cowl.

[Devil_LeonX]

[They are meant to be lenses and they protect his eyes from dust, etc.[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%! In fact I think its about time they GIVE Batman those eyes in the next Movie Batman: the dark Knight, If it can work for spidy or Daredevil then theres no reason why they cant do it for Bats. No offense to Alex as great as he is drawing batman without his '"evil white" eyes Bats looks a bit ify.

[OffWork]

I am pro white eyes, all the way. One of my biggest beefs with ALL the movies is not having the white eyes. I think Batman is much more intimidating with them.

Also, he can use them as utilities - night vision, infrared, etc. I think I saw one comic where it was almost like a computer, had various readouts he could pull up. Not sure where I saw it.

And, they just look damn cool.

I think he uses that in the Hush arc when he is trying to rescue the kid from killer croc. It gave him readouts of the mercenarys that were hired.

[jackups]

The white eyes are the best some artists have tried to draw them as like glasses,But they are just like all comic book charatcers and white eyes I think they will always remain.

[phantom1592]

I agree 100%! In fact I think its about time they GIVE Batman those eyes in the next Movie Batman: the dark Knight, If it can work for spidy or Daredevil then theres no reason why they cant do it for Bats. No offense to Alex as great as he is drawing batman without his '"evil white" eyes Bats looks a bit ify.


Don't forget, i'm the only one in the world who seemed to like Daredevil. And Spidey keeps getting smashed up or takeing his mask off to SHOW the eyes.


Something about Actors showing Emotion....

[captain_unimpressive]

If I remember my comic book history correctly, Batman was actually the first character to have the white slits for eyes.
Imagine how odd Spider-Man would have looked without Bob Kane's influence.

[shyguy]

1. We'd get to see more facial emotion from the character (rather than just from body language and dialogue) and


This isn't really the case. Emotion insofar as it concerns the eyes has little or nothing to do with the actual pupil. Expression comes from the eyebrows and the eyelids - both of which Batman's mask shows off fine, since artists draw it as changing as his face changes expresion underneath.

The eyes-looking-to-the-side thing is about the only visual thing you'd gain by adding pupils (and there are ways to fudge that without them as well), and you'd lose a ton of the visual impact that comes from the squinty white eyes.

The white slits aren't that important in someone like The Spirit, but if you want your character to look mysterious and scary, the white eyes are the way to go. It makes him look inhuman.

Plus, as far as I'm concerned, anything that gets us further away from Alex Ross' goofy looking Batman is a bonus.


If I remember my comic book history correctly, Batman was actually the first character to have the white slits for eyes.
The Phantom had white slits for eyes (although they were a bit wider than Batman's).

[Devil_LeonX]

This isn't really the case. Emotion insofar as it concerns the eyes has little or nothing to do with the actual pupil. Expression comes from the eyebrows and the eyelids - both of which Batman's mask shows off fine, since artists draw it as changing as his face changes expresion underneath.

The eyes-looking-to-the-side thing is about the only visual thing you'd gain by adding pupils (and there are ways to fudge that without them as well), and you'd lose a ton of the visual impact that comes from the squinty white eyes.

The white slits aren't that important in someone like The Spirit, but if you want your character to look mysterious and scary, the white eyes are the way to go. It makes him look inhuman.

Plus, as far as I'm concerned, anything that gets us further away from Alex Ross' goofy looking Batman is a bonus.
LOL! I absolutely agree, Alex is a great Artists, but I always felt that the way he drew Batman didnt do Bats Justice and taking away the white eyes didnt help ether.

[Hellstormer]

Don't forget, i'm the only one in the world who seemed to like Daredevil. And Spidey keeps getting smashed up or takeing his mask off to SHOW the eyes.


Something about Actors showing Emotion....
Hey I loved Daredevil and the directors cut was 3 times as good. Personally it's one of my fave marvel movies.

[phantom1592]

Hey I loved Daredevil and the directors cut was 3 times as good. Personally it's one of my fave marvel movies.


HEY! Another one! Good to know. I'm not so lonely now. LOVE the director's cut, It's like a whole different movie!

[karasu]

White eyes are one of the coolest aspects of comics in general, let alone Batman's book. I'm all for them.

Daredevil Directors cut rocks. http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[rZi]

I like the fact that you can't see his eyes...his emmotion is portrayed through his mouth, body language and dialouge. Plus it makes him seem cold and darker...well thats what i think anyways Y_y

[Agentum]

Maybe they can have them as mirrors in the movies, as there is mirror surfaces that you can look thru in one direction.

But white is best of course, but i guess he would be blind then hehe.

The Phantom had those white eyes before Batman.

[MaxofSteel]

K'know guys, I hadn't really considered all these points you're makin'.

It's important that Bat's eyes not be seen, since it gives him a psychological edge over his enemies. Plus they just generally look better (I drew up some pics to compare the two, and to me the white eyes just look more awesome).

That said, I still don't see how the white eyes could work in a live action flick like BBegins. White contacts just look weird IMO. I saw an odd fan trailer for "The World's Finest" one time, and the guy playing Bats was sporting the white 'tacts. They just look alien to me. Plus, they're not practical. I wouldn't fight crime with dry eyes, even if I had some "Bat-Visene" on me!:p

Agentum has an interesting idea though, what with the mirrors and such. But I'd have to see how that looks to be sure.

Anybody have any other ideas for movie eyes?

[The Batman]

What works well in comics doesn't always work on film, and there's not reason it should. Artists can play with the expressions on Batman's mask to hint at his emotional state in a way that actors can't. They're eyes are one of their most important tools a actors and most of the people who have plyed Batman(specifically Keaton and Bale) were cast because of their ability to convey intensity and anguish through there eyes.

[MaxofSteel]

What works well in comics doesn't always work on film, and there's not reason it should.

Exactly. This is my point. The white eyes work on paper, but in practice it's better to be able to see the eyes for what they are.

[Joe Acro]

The Phantom had white slits for eyes (although they were a bit wider than Batman's).
Did The Phantom reach comic books before Batman? I know he was in comic strips, but the original poster didn't mention those.

[Zeb Oswalt]

White eyes are harder to make look emotional for an artist. I never liked em, but ah well. Still in a movie it's impassable for that to work in a movie. Emotion is an actors stock and trade. The Spider Man Movies in the 70s prove that. With the mask it was difficult to figure out what he was feeling. The Whole Chili Palmer than only works so well. And Bats isn't about cold determination well not totally. One of his weapons are fear. Cold fear IS Ok, but seeing rage in an eyes can be useful. Some one as skilled as Bruce as an actor can hid what he's thinking well enough he doesn't need the white eyes. Notable Night Wing doesn't ware them. And he was trained under the very wing of the Bat Man. And he abandoned the white eyes. That and wouldn't white eyes be a waste of a vassal effect?

[Sleeper]

Did The Phantom reach comic books before Batman? I know he was in comic strips, but the original poster didn't mention those.

Are you counting the reprints of the strips in books or the straight up into comic boks versions? I think they started the reprints of strips back in the 40s.

[Joe Acro]

Notable Night Wing doesn't ware them. And he was trained under the very wing of the Bat Man. And he abandoned the white eyes.
But Nightwing does have white (fabric?) over his eyes. He wears something similar to what Robin and Green Lantern and many others wear. When has he ever not had white on his mask?

Are you counting the reprints of the strips in books or the straight up into comic boks versions? I think they started the reprints of strips back in the 40s.If the even the strip reprints were published in book form in the thirties, that would still make The Phantom a comic book character after Batman had already been created.

[Devil_LeonX]

What works well in comics doesn't always work on film, and there's not reason it should. Artists can play with the expressions on Batman's mask to hint at his emotional state in a way that actors can't. They're eyes are one of their most important tools a actors and most of the people who have plyed Batman(specifically Keaton and Bale) were cast because of their ability to convey intensity and anguish through there eyes.
I agree with what soe of you are saying and to be hones it would be difficult to get the white eyes to work but I say again if it can work for spidy, Daredevil or helll even Spawn then it shouldn't be TOO hard to make it look good.

[The Batman]

For most every dramatic scene Spider-Man's mask is taken or torn off, or he's just not wearing it. Daredevil's a funny one in that he's blind and his eyes are supposed to be covered up because he's blind. I'm pretty sure they do that alot, I'm also pretty sure that during some of the really dramatic bits he's got the mask off. I haven't watched my copy of Daredevil, Director's Cut of course because that way it's actually not a bad little film, but I might make a point to do that soon. I know alot of people complained about Affleck's performance, maybe that you couldn't always see his eyes was part of it. As for Spawn, he had the glowing green eyes when his maks was on, but alot of the time he didn't have his mask on and all you saw was his burned up face and the actor's eyes.

There's alot of ways that they could give Christian Bale the white eyes that we're used to from the comics. Some of them wouldn't even require all that much work. That's not the point though. Ultimately it's unnecessary, and worse, it's just going to hurt his performance. His Batman voice is already bad enouch, lets not take away his eyes too.

Comics ain't films, films ain't comics. Let each do what works best for them.

[Zeb Oswalt]

But Nightwing does have white (fabric?) over his eyes. He wears something similar to what Robin and Green Lantern and many others wear. When has he ever not had white on his mask?
If the even the strip reprints were published in book form in the thirties, that would still make The Phantom a comic book character after Batman had already been created.

In the Titans. George Perez never drew the fabric. Nor did Alploh. Well, he did in the early Bat Man issue not in Night Fall. I forget the new artist brought back the fabric, not sure why. Not sure whom started it. Or why. But, for most of his Nightwing time the felt was gone.


http://www.ratcreature.net/fannish_stuff/images/nightwing_jericho_02.jpg

http://www.ratcreature.net/fannish_stuff/images/nightwing_jericho_02.jpg


http://www.bobmcleod.com/newt59p18.jpg

[The Mirrorball Man]

I remember a "Dr. Slump" episode in which the good doctor was freaking out because he found out that the way he was drawn, he didn't actually have nostrils, and he was wondering how he managed to breathe without them.