Where exactly is Riverdale?

[Hintermann]

For those familar with Archie Series comics, the town of Riverdale, home to almost all the characters in Archie comics, will be a household name. But the authors have never specified the part of the US in which Riverdale is actually located. Over the years, there have been conjectures that Riverdale is in New England, upstate New York (there is a town called 'Riverdale' in NY), the Midwest and (according to some TV programmes) in California. But I believe that there are enough clues in classic Archie comics over the decades to hint strongly about the location of Riverdale.

I think it would be nice to guess this depending on the usual scenarios in Archie stories. We could narrow down the margin enough to pick a real US town that most fits the image of Riverdale as we know it. I request Archie fans to have a go.

[Scott Shaw!]

Riverdale is much like Carl Barks' Duckburg (which he located in the state of "Calisota"); the town is close enough to the beach for Archie and his pals 'n' gals to go surfing -- yet it gets plenty of snowfall every Christmas! (THE SIMPSONS' Riverdale is very similar.) In other words, it's located where the widest variety of stories can take place.

Therefore, I'd say Riverdale is located squarely in the center of Bob Montana's imagination.

Aloha,

Scott!

[Gordon Smith]

After reading Archie comics for forty years, I have narrowed Riverdale's location down to the Northwestern United States or the Northeastern United States, being somewhat near, but not necessarily on the Atlantic or Pacific seaboards. I hope that was helpful. :)

[Hintermann]

I based my own guess on several 'clues' over the years.


The gang head off to the beach in summer, often starting out in beach gear. So Riverdale must be a coastal town.

There is usually heavy snowfall in winter in Riverdale; the gang often go skiing, but this is usaully a slightly longer trip than to the beach and seems to involve a few hours drive. This could mean that mountains are within driving distance.

There area around Riverdale is a bit countrified.

Even though Riverdale is a 'small town', it has its own High School and some public buildings. This suggests a population of around 50,000.

In older comics, the gang often went to a drive-in movie. This might mean that there is a large city not far away. Also, Mr Lodge is shown driving to the airport on occasion.

The Lodge residence and some other buildings have a touch of colonial style. This suggest a location in New England or thereabouts.

Based on all this my favourite US town that could be closest to Riverdale is Barnstable in Massachusetts. It is on the Cape Cod coast (surfing etc), within drivable distance south of Boston, Vermont's Green Mountains are not far, can get heavy snow in winter and has some colonial architecture like its County Courthouse

[MDG]

Riverdale, New York, is a section of the northern Bronx that doesn't look at all like Riverdale. Mammaroneck, NY, the home of Archie Comics, doesn't either.

According to Wikipedia, Bob Montana was born in Stockton, California, but his family spent summers in New Hampshire. He went to HS in Haverhill, MA, and Haverhill High was the inspiration for Archie.

MDG

[Gordon Smith]

More seriously, I think that Riverdale was based upon (although never officially identified with) the New England city of Haverhill ([http://www.ci.haverhill.ma.us/), Massachusetts. Archie creator Bob Montana lived there for a time, if I'm not mistaken and drew upon his experiences as partial inspiration for Archie.

Edit-see that MDG beat me to it. :)

[Hintermann]

Haverhill is a similar town to Barstable but north of Boston. But the one thing that goes slightly against it being archtypical of Riverdale is that it is not on the sea, though admittedly not far from the coast. There have been several situations suggesting that Riverdale is right on the edge of the sea unless I am mistaken, surfing is more common in the Cape Cod region? Also, in some 'Betty & Veronica Summer Fun' stories, the girls are shown walking to the beach from their houses - a bit difficult from Haverhill.

[Roquefort Raider]

I remember a story about Archie and Jughead falling asleep on the beach and waking up as the sun was going down. I don't recall whether they could see the setting sun over the ocean, though, but that would tell us whether Riverdale is on the East or West coast.

[T GUy]

Hintermann -
Also, Mr Lodge is shown driving to the airport on occasion. Call me a pedant, but I think this should read 'Also, Mr Lodge is shown being driven to the airport on occasion.'

T Guy

'I think you mean being driven to distraction by that lout Andrews.'

Mr Lodge.

[scratchie]

I remember a story about Archie and Jughead falling asleep on the beach and waking up as the sun was going down. I don't recall whether they could see the setting sun over the ocean, though, but that would tell us whether Riverdale is on the East or West coast.If the sun was setting over the ocean, it could still be on Cape Cod (e.g. Wellfleet).

FYI there is a Riverdale neighborhood in Gloucester, MA, which is near the ocean.

Interesting to hear that Riverdale was based on Haverhill. I read somewhere that Al Capp's Dogpatch was inspired by Seabrook, NH. I had no idea I grew up near such important historical sites!

[Hintermann]

I remember a story about Archie and Jughead falling asleep on the beach and waking up as the sun was going down.

That definitely cannot happen near Haverhill or Gloucester, where the sun rises across the sea.

But Barnstable is in the southern 'curve' of Cape Cod and from the nearby beach there can be vantage points for either sunrise or sunset across the water.

[prince hal]

As a resident of Barnstable, I am amazed by how much our friend from across the pond knows about us. Ah, co-inky-dinkies!

There are surfers on the Cape, though you have to go out to the National Seashore (the forearm) in order to do it. Still, that's only an hour ride at the most from Barnstable.

As for snow, it can be hit or miss,. Last winter we had virtually no snow, and the temperatures never went too low for very long. Don't know thw actual sats, but I didn't burn the three cords of wood I go through in an average winter. In 2004, however, we got whacked by a blizzard that pounded us with 3-plus feet of snow and knocked out power for days. As with all real estate, it's all about location, location, location. We jut out into the Atlantic, which sometimes saves us, but sometimes saves us.

Our county courthouse still is guarded by the cannon that were first set there to protect the harbor it overlooks from British ships in the War of 1812, by the way. It is one of many examples of that style that predominates along the road known now as Route 6A, but was for centuries called the Old King's Highway.

Another similarity is the disparity between rich and poor here. Don't read Archie enough to know if Riverdale has a poorer section where gangs fight over drug sales, or if there are any non-whites. (Somehow, I doubt it's much of an issue.) We have multi-millionaires like Mr. Lodge who command small fleets of sailboats, sports cars and seaplanes, etc, etc (Bill Koch, various DuPonts, the Kennedys) whose waterfront estates are less than five minutes from crackhouses. Sad but true.

BTW, our sister city in England is Barnstaple. I thought maybe you might live there or thereabouts and that was why you know so much about us.

[Jesse Hamm]

According to Wikipedia, Bob Montana was born in Stockton, California,

Stockton never gets snow, but it is about 2 hours from skiing or surfing, depending on which direction you go.

Coincidentally, it's also where the Fantastic 4 crashed their spacecraft and became the FF.

[Hintermann]

=prince hal As a resident of Barnstable, I am amazed by how much our friend from across the pond knows about us. Ah, co-inky-dinkies!
I passed through Barnstable and rest of Cape Cod in the Autumn of 1995. I confess I did not stay long enough to get to know the place; most of my current 'knowledge' of Barnstable is based on web research after I decided that it was the town most suited to be Riverdale.


There are surfers on the Cape, though you have to go out to the National Seashore (the forearm) in order to do it. Still, that's only an hour ride at the most from Barnstable.
That would still be a lot closer than Haverhill, which is nearly 20 miles inland from any beach. In Archie comics, the beach is shown to be very near the town (as it is in Barnstable), but the gang usually pack their surfboards to drive across to the surfing beach. That would explain your 'an hour at most' drive.:)


As for snow, it can be hit or miss,. Last winter we had virtually no snow, and the temperatures never went too low for very long. Don't know thw actual sats, but I didn't burn the three cords of wood I go through in an average winter. In 2004, however, we got whacked by a blizzard that pounded us with 3-plus feet of snow and knocked out power for days.
Fair enough. That can happen anywhere. Actually, there is a story where Riverdale gets pounded by a blizzard, power & telephone lines get knocked out (this was in those pre-mobile days; remember them?) and there are some injuries. Archie & Jughead are comissioned by the townsfolk to go out and get help, which they successfully do.


Our county courthouse still is guarded by the cannon that were first set there to protect the harbor it overlooks from British ships in the War of 1812, by the way. It is one of many examples of that style that predominates along the road known now as Route 6A, but was for centuries called the Old King's Highway.
Riverdale has such colonial buildings too. One of them is the town Library....I understand that Barnstable has a nice library as well? Is it an older building?


Another similarity is the disparity between rich and poor here. Don't read Archie enough to know if Riverdale has a poorer section where gangs fight over drug sales, or if there are any non-whites. (Somehow, I doubt it's much of an issue.) We have multi-millionaires like Mr. Lodge who command small fleets of sailboats, sports cars and seaplanes, etc, etc (Bill Koch, various DuPonts, the Kennedys) whose waterfront estates are less than five minutes from crackhouses. Sad but true.
Ah, this is a moot point. In the Archie comics prior to the 60s, the stories were kept 'squeaky clean' and only white faces were shown, as was the case with most comics those days. Starting in the mid-60s, some black people made their way into Archie series - Coach Clayton, his son Chuck, Chuck's girfriend Nancy (?), Josie's friend Valerie and so on. But they were depicted as happy and part of the 'gang'; understandably, the unsavoury part of the town was not shown, irrespective of whether it was a 'black' or 'white' area. Having said that, some of the later stories have featured troubled spots in Riverdale. Archie & the gang constantly sent out "no drugs!" messages in the 70s & 80s and in one story Betty & Veronica volunteer to help a rookie cop shot by a drug crazed gang (blacks & whites) while Archie, Reggie & Jug find the culprits.


BTW, our sister city in England is Barnstaple. I thought maybe you might live there or thereabouts and that was why you know so much about us.
I live in Wootton Bassett, Wiltshire, about 2-hours drive from Barnstaple, Devon. Never been there actually!

[Olive Seeker]

picking up this thread years later... there is a hint in Archie Comics that Riverdale is in New England: in a story, there was a TV weather report that showed New England, centering on Massachusetts. Given that the school arranged a field trip (overnight) to Wash DC, it is clear it is reasonably driving distance from DC. I know Riverdale is supposed to be imaginary, but at least we "know" that the high school was inspired by the old HS, now City Hall of Haverhill, Ma.

[dupont2005]

Riverdale is much like Carl Barks' Duckburg (which he located in the state of "Calisota"); the town is close enough to the beach for Archie and his pals 'n' gals to go surfing -- yet it gets plenty of snowfall every Christmas! (THE SIMPSONS' Riverdale is very similar.) In other words, it's located where the widest variety of stories can take place.

Therefore, I'd say Riverdale is located squarely in the center of Bob Montana's imagination.

Aloha,

Scott!
I live in Palm Springs. I could be snowboarding in 30 minutes and surfing in 90 minutes.


But I choose to do neither:biggrin:

[foxley]

Early stories had it explicitly located in Massachusetts. In fact, Mr Lodge was originally a Massachusetts senator.

[CromagnonMan]

wherever you want it to be, i suppose.

i think its intended to be an "everyplace" that everyone can identify with. I may be wrong.

[Crawford Crow]

It's about 5 miles from Anytown, U.S.A., which happens to be the home of John Doe and John Q. Public. And yes, the zip code is 12345, and all the telephone numbers start with 555.

[Alan2099]

It's within driving distance of Gotham City. I'm not arguing with the Punisher on that one.

[Scott Harris]

Early stories had it explicitly located in Massachusetts. In fact, Mr Lodge was originally a Massachusetts senator.

That's interesting, as there was a Massachusetts senator named Lodge at the time Archie first appeared, namely Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cabot_Lodge,_Jr.

He was from Nahant, which is in the same county as Haverhill, only on the ocean. In 1944 he resigned his seat in Congress in order to return to active duty in World War II, where he earned several decorations including the French Legion d'honneur.

According to wiki, Bob Montana knew the Lodge family and named Mr. Lodge as an homage to them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Lodge

[Angilas-Man]

Riverdale is much like Carl Barks' Duckburg (which he located in the state of "Calisota")

I think both Barks and Don Rosa placed Calisota on the West Coast - so it's not completely locationless.

:smile:

[Grapeweasel]

I believe it's smack dab in the middle of Springfield and Shelbyville.....

[tolworthy]

I live in Palm Springs. I could be snowboarding in 30 minutes and surfing in 90 minutes.

I live in northern Scotland. It snowed one hour ago, and we are 12 miles from a beach that hosts annual surf competitions. I notice that Archie is a redhead. Andrews is a Scottish name (see the home of golf with its famous university), as is Archibald: the two most famous Archibalds were both Scottish (check out Wikipedia).

"Dale" is a Norse word meaning valley, hence Helmsdale (which looks surprisingly like Helms Deep of LOTR fame) or Clydesdale (hence the Scottish bank and the famous horses). it is common here for towns to be named after rivers - our local own, famous for its surfing is Thurso, named after the river Thurso (Thor's river: You will notice that Thor is another comic character.)

More clues are in the other names:
* Betty and Veronica are European royal names: Veronica is best known for its Ptolemaic queens of that name and Elizabeth is best known for notable British monarchs. Since when did America have a monarchy? Cooper is a clan based on Coupar, Fife. Lodge shouts Scottish Freemason rites (it is obvious from the OP that the Archie comics hide layers of secrets).

*Jones is the most popular Welsh name (the comic stereotype Welshman is Jones the X where X is his occupation), which makes him the outsider. Note his paper crown: the royal element again. Jughead is neutral, as jugs are the most basic form of pottery since ancient time, but his real name is Forsythe, a solid Scots name (hence Forsythe of Forsythe in Stirling).

Clearly the stories are given a thin American veneer for sales purposes, but you guys are looking on the wrong continent. ;)