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View Full Version : Is DC making a mistake by reverting back to the Silver Age?



Hush Little Batman
10-28-2006, 04:45 PM
For a few years now it seems that DC wants to go back to the SA concepts and powers that many of its characters had. Is this a mistake?

Jack Zodiac
10-28-2006, 04:54 PM
Not if it's done well. Another thing that should be taken into consideration by editors and writers kicking it back to the Silver Age is to think about the storytelling of that time, which was some of the greatest stuff ever.

Buried Alien
10-28-2006, 08:28 PM
From the perspective of someone who enjoys DC's Silver Age comics, this so-called "return" to the Silver Age isn't much of a return at all. The DCU of today still has much more in common with the DCU of four years ago than the DCU of forty years ago.

What DC has done is reincorporate many Silver Age ideas and conventions that were discarded during the 1980s and 1990s for no other reason than they were too "Silver Age."

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Hellstormer
10-28-2006, 08:41 PM
I don't think they're really reverting to the Silver age, just taking the concepts that worked then and trying to reuse them for better storytelling.

Guts/Batman
10-28-2006, 10:08 PM
What exactly have they reverted back to the Silver Age? I can't see one thing that DC puts out now that even begins to fit into that category.

MaxofSteel
10-28-2006, 10:30 PM
What exactly have they reverted back to the Silver Age? I can't see one thing that DC puts out now that even begins to fit into that category.

I think Little B means like stuff with Superman for example where they've brought back Krypto and Kara-Zor-El.

Guts/Batman
10-28-2006, 10:34 PM
I don't see the problem with this. Kara Zor-El, if written right, could be a nice addition to "DCU".

Outside of the name, there is little resemblence between the two characters.

Raker616
10-29-2006, 12:33 AM
No, but I think they should go all out bring back Barry and really take it back to when comics were great.

TheTen-EyedMan
10-29-2006, 06:32 AM
No, but I think they should go all out bring back Barry and really take it back to when comics were great.

He is com....*crash!!!!*

WE APOLOGISE FOR THE BREAK IN TRANSMISSION. REMEMBER DC IS YOUR FRIEND.

Powerboy
10-29-2006, 07:24 AM
For a few years now it seems that DC wants to go back to the SA concepts and powers that many of its characters had. Is this a mistake?

Personally, I don't see anything DC is doing now that reminds me of the Silver Age. Now maybe the Golden Age. Maybe there are some Silver Age characters being brought back but the way they are presented is completely different than how they were presented in the SA.

Killer Frost
10-29-2006, 08:33 AM
Ah, there are numerous recent alterations to Superman which reintroduce pre-Crisis elements and mix them up with movie and TV elements. This list is probably not complete.

* Came to earth as "a young boy" vs. Byrne's birthing matrix.
* A more colorful Birthright/cinematic Krypton vs. Bryrne's cold, sterile and heartless Krypton.
* A Clark Kent who accepts his alien origins vs. Bryne's humanized, Krypton-scorning Clark.
* New arctic fortress (crystal fortress like in the movies, including an interactive, holographic Jor-El head).
* Urban-myth super-boy (whether or not young Clark ever donned a costume remains to be seen).
* Super-intellect (super-fast brain).
* Lex reverting to mad scientist type.
* More than one piece of Kryptonite on Earth (Lex accumulated a room full of it recently).
* Multi-colored Kryponite.
* Kandor populated by Kryptonians (see Supergirl and this month's Supergirl/LSH)
* The Phantom Zone is back.
* Three Kryptonian criminals (Action Annual #1, and I'm presuming they are not Pocket Universe).
* Mon-El, Clark Kent's "big brother" (Supergirl/LSH and Action Annual #1).
* Supergirl is cousin Kara Zor-El of Argo City. Uncle Zor-El (evil now).
* Krypto (not the original sentient animal but, y'know, he's a pup with a cape.)

"New Earth" versions of General Zod, Brainiac and Bizarro are supposedly on the way, who I'm guessing will be more Silver Agey than not.

To answer the original question, I don't think it's a mistake. It's long overdue, and kudos to Johns, Donner, Busiek, Waid and others responsible for restoring the juicy parts of the SvA/pre-Crisis mythos.

DonC
10-29-2006, 09:14 AM
Yes. Instead of rehashing the past, DC should move forward. The changes to Superman, especially, are a mess. They're taking the "Let's throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" approach and it is annoying as hell to me. Back in the early 90s Superman comics were among the best on the stands and they didn't need the movie fortress, Silver Age Supergirl and Golden Age powers. Good writers don't need to change everything so they can do good stories.

XPac
10-29-2006, 09:31 AM
This is just DC being DC... they're retconning their past retcons. 10 years from now this will be retconned to.

And yes, I have always thought that their philosophy of retconing their entire history was a mistake. Crisis because it was done very poorly was a mistake, but their constant efforts at retconing to try to fix it just compounds the problem and makes it worse.

They should just leave it alone, and move foreward. But DC never understands that... they're constantly trying to fix the past instead and that in the long term just makes it necessary to fix it even more in the future.

I'd be lying if I didn't say there are some elements that I like coming out of it. So I'll least give it that... some interesting things have occured and I'm sure sales will show that it's overall a huge sucess.

Bored at 3:00AM
10-29-2006, 10:20 AM
DC is just realising that a lot of the silly stuff they were in such a hurry to distance themselves from in the eighties was actually kinda cool and fun.

Detective Chimp, for example.

Krypto, another.

Time Travel is another big one. DC actually tried to ban time travel in their stories because they thought it wasn't "realistic" enough.

If an idea is good, bring it back, polish it up for modern audiences and throw it back out there. If there's an audience for it, it'll stick around--like Hal Jordan and the Silver Age version of Green Lantern as space cops.

DonC
10-29-2006, 12:55 PM
DC is just realising that a lot of the silly stuff they were in such a hurry to distance themselves from in the eighties was actually kinda cool and fun.

Detective Chimp, for example.

Krypto, another.


And Giffen's and DeMatties' Justice League.


Whoops, wait. We're supposed to hate that now. My bad.

Agentum
10-29-2006, 02:14 PM
I don't understand why some think the storytelling (in DC books) of the 60s was the best of all time, i'm sure there is good DC books, but a lot of them have not much good storytelling at all just a bunch of ideas thrown in.
The books was written for small kids, we don't want that today (well not only that kind of books anyway).

I don't think a comic wth a DC 60s style would sell at all today, they can bring back conceps from the 60s but they have to keep modern storytelling.

Buried Alien
10-29-2006, 02:15 PM
I don't understand why some think the storytelling (in DC books) of the 60s was the best of all time, i'm sure there is good DC books, but a lot of them have not much good storytelling at all just a bunch of ideas thrown in.
The books was written for small kids, we don't want that today (well not only that kind of books anyway).

I don't think a comic wth a DC 60s style would sell at all today, they can bring back conceps from the 60s but they have to keep modern storytelling.

The best compromise was the Bronze Age of the 1970s and the first half of the 1980s. The Silver Age conventions still applied, but the storytelling was modern. The current DCU has more in common with the Bronze Age than the Silver Age, frankly.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Super Buddies Forever
10-29-2006, 02:22 PM
Some of the things being brought back from the Silver Age are, I feel, completely unneccesary. Mostly this stems from Jeph Loeb's run on the Superman comics (a superdog, the "laugh riot" that is Bizarro #1, Kara, etc.) While I never have a problem with elements being brought back and retooled for modern audiences (as the Superman writers of the early '90s attempted to do), I do think it can verge on being a bit self-indulgent when you focus on that instead of coming up with exciting new ideas.

Basically though, it all depends on how it's handled. I am one of Kyle Rayner's biggest fans, but even I'll admit that Johns made Hal Jordan's return work by not negating any of those stories from the '90s. No, he actually took them and built upon them. They still mean a great deal in the continuity, and that means a great deal as a fan of those stories. Had Infinite Crisis just erased Emerald Twilight and Kyle Rayner from history... well, that wouldn't be nearly as acceptable.

I feel that those working on Superman in the past few years took that latter approach. Birthright overwrote Man of Steel, never minding the crucial fact that, for more than 15 years, everything from the Superman comics stemmed from Byrne's mini-series. Now we've even got more quiet retcons to Superman's past in an attempt to plug back into to the Silver Age, but all it does is leave Superman's current history a vague mish-mash of conflicting ideas. Had they really wanted to retcon Man of Steel, they needed to take the Rebirth approach: Figure out a way that it could have still happened, but not in the way that it was originally presented to us.

Buried Alien
10-29-2006, 02:27 PM
Now we've even got more quiet retcons to Superman's past in an attempt to plug back into to the Silver Age, but all it does is leave Superman's current history a vague mish-mash of conflicting ideas.

With the SUPERMAN franchise, I feel that the Post-INFINITE CRISIS retcons to his history are not so much in line with the Silver Age comic book version of the character as they are with the iconography of the Christopher Reeve/Brandon Routh SUPERMAN movies. The Superman of the comics is looking more like his movie counterpart than ever.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Reptisaurus!
10-29-2006, 02:42 PM
For a few years now it seems that DC wants to go back to the SA concepts and powers that many of its characters had. Is this a mistake?

Really? If you mean: Was it a good idea to stop pooping out interchangable superhero book after interchangable superhero book and inject their line with more variety, including kid's books like Scooby Doo and graphic novels from Gilbert! Maw-Freaking! Hernandez!!!

Then, yes. Absolutely.

If you're worried about the superheroes, than I don't care even remotely either way. I can't see how replacing the Silver Age Green Lantern (from 1958) with a very close Spider-man analouge (created:196....2?) is a tremendous step forward. I guess Batgirl's better. The character's old,
but they DID make her a ninja. And ninjas weren't really popular 'till Frank Miller's Daredevil in the early eighties, so THERE DC is re-re-re-re-cycling ideas that are only twenty-five years old.

(Alright, I kind of like Kyle and the new Batgirl. But I'd like to see some forward progress from corporate comics more.)

Jason von Evil
10-29-2006, 03:42 PM
Wait, its possible to revert back to a previous age? Why not slip back to golden age?

Guts/Batman
10-29-2006, 04:56 PM
Wait, its possible to revert back to a previous age?

Sure it is. Just retcon both DCU and Crisis on Infinite Earths.

dupersuper
10-29-2006, 04:56 PM
* Came to earth as "a young boy" vs. Byrne's birthing matrix.
* A more colorful Birthright/cinematic Krypton vs. Bryrne's cold, sterile and heartless Krypton.
* A Clark Kent who accepts his alien origins vs. Bryne's humanized, Krypton-scorning Clark.

I'm not a fan of these 3 changes. I know Waid and others like it this way, and I certainly love Waids' comics, but I started reading Superman regularly in the Man of Steel era, and that approach always appealed to me.

* New arctic fortress (crystal fortress like in the movies, including an interactive, holographic Jor-El head).
* Urban-myth super-boy (whether or not young Clark ever donned a costume remains to be seen).
* Super-intellect (super-fast brain).
* Lex reverting to mad scientist type.
* More than one piece of Kryptonite on Earth (Lex accumulated a room full of it recently).
* Multi-colored Kryponite.
* Kandor populated by Kryptonians (see Supergirl and this month's Supergirl/LSH)
* The Phantom Zone is back.
* Three Kryptonian criminals (Action Annual #1, and I'm presuming they are not Pocket Universe).
* Mon-El, Clark Kent's "big brother" (Supergirl/LSH and Action Annual #1).
* Supergirl is cousin Kara Zor-El of Argo City. Uncle Zor-El (evil now).
* Krypto (not the original sentient animal but, y'know, he's a pup with a cape.)

All these, however, I'm perfectly fine with, because they didn't mess with current continuity, they were just introduced in the story. For example, Luthor still WAS an evil businessman, he just became more of a mad scientist type as the storys went on (proving you CAN get the situations you want for charactors by developing them, rather than just lazily starting them over your way). I'm in full agreement with what an earlier poster was saying about how retcons have hurt Superman recently.

Reptisaurus!
10-29-2006, 05:47 PM
Wait, its possible to revert back to a previous age? Why not slip back to golden age?

Superman-wise, that'd be way cool. The S & S Supes is still my favorite take on the character.

Agentum
10-29-2006, 11:44 PM
The best compromise was the Bronze Age of the 1970s and the first half of the 1980s. The Silver Age conventions still applied, but the storytelling was modern. The current DCU has more in common with the Bronze Age than the Silver Age, frankly.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think i agree with you about that, it still had characterbuilding and the storys was not too drawn out.
I read a lot of those books even today.

brundlefly
10-30-2006, 03:30 PM
Yes. Instead of rehashing the past, DC should move forward. The changes to Superman, especially, are a mess. They're taking the "Let's throw everything against the wall and see what sticks" approach and it is annoying as hell to me. Back in the early 90s Superman comics were among the best on the stands and they didn't need the movie fortress, Silver Age Supergirl and Golden Age powers. Good writers don't need to change everything so they can do good stories.

I agree with DonC, as I think a lot of this "back to the Silver Age" fad is nostalgia on the part of the writers. Kevin Smith loved Ollie Queen as Green Arrow, so he brings him back from the dead when he gets put on the title. Johns does the same with Hal Jordan, Winnick with Jason Todd, etc., then throw in Loeb, Johns and Donner injecting tons of Silver Age-ness into Superman and Metzler creating a more Silver Age-themed JLA. I think it's just that though: a fad. And has been posted previously in the thread, it'll blow over eventually. I just think it's a little heavy-handed instead of natural progression and that great characters (Connor Hawke as Green Arrow, for exampe) got pushed offstage in the mad dash to restore all the Silver Age characters instead of letting new ones develop.

And Lex is my favorite DC baddie, so I'm annoyed to see them toss out years of character development as the masterful LexCorp CEO/US President in favor of bringing back the one-dimensional, Superman-stalking jailbird. But I'm trying to stay positive and remember that "this, too, shall pass..." :evilsmile

Frankie Dennis
10-30-2006, 04:14 PM
No, but I think they should go all out bring back Barry and really take it back to when comics were great.

I agree. I would really like to see Barry come back.

Buried Alien
10-30-2006, 07:36 PM
I agree with DonC, as I think a lot of this "back to the Silver Age" fad is nostalgia on the part of the writers. Kevin Smith loved Ollie Queen as Green Arrow, so he brings him back from the dead when he gets put on the title. Johns does the same with Hal Jordan, Winnick with Jason Todd, etc., then throw in Loeb, Johns and Donner injecting tons of Silver Age-ness into Superman and Metzler creating a more Silver Age-themed JLA. I think it's just that though: a fad. And has been posted previously in the thread, it'll blow over eventually. I just think it's a little heavy-handed instead of natural progression and that great characters (Connor Hawke as Green Arrow, for exampe) got pushed offstage in the mad dash to restore all the Silver Age characters instead of letting new ones develop.

Ironically, what you see as a passing fad is seen by others as the restoration of a classic status quo that was forcibly pushed aside for a "fad" called late 1980s and 1990s DC Comics. Who's the fad? We might never know.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

RichStanz
10-30-2006, 07:55 PM
Ironically, what you see as a passing fad is seen by others as the restoration of a classic status quo that was forcibly pushed aside for a "fad" called late 1980s and 1990s DC Comics. Who's the fad? We might never know.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Granted a lot of the things that were being pushed aside did come from a big sweeping change to get rid of classic status quo, but some of those characters and ideas (like Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke) were able to withstand the test of time. Mainly through the hard work of a lot of writers and artists who sturggled to make these new, blank canvas characters something the fans could get behind.

I would just hate to see one generation of readers have to get burned because a previous generation of readers got burned. I would see editors and writers try to restore the classic elements and make them gel with the modernized approaches.

brundlefly
10-30-2006, 09:23 PM
Ironically, what you see as a passing fad is seen by others as the restoration of a classic status quo that was forcibly pushed aside for a "fad" called late 1980s and 1990s DC Comics. Who's the fad? We might never know.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I didn't mean to come off as a Silver Age hater, Buried Alien. I really dug Johns' melding of Silver Age characters and stories with the modern day in his JSA and am enjoying Metzler's Silver Age-style JLA (and I love the Silver Age stories and era themselves that they are emulating). It's more the heavy-handed jarring changes as opposed to natural story progression, the hokey hard-to-swallow resurrections (Smith's of Ollie Queen is the big offender) just to get certain characters "alive" again, and character regression instead of progression in order to "reboot" people back to their Silver Age incarnations. I'm quite fond of the storytelling style and the characters of the Silver Age, but like RichStanz, I'd just like to see more of an attempt to naturally weave them into modern DCU and combine them with existing characters & stories instead of more reboots, retcons, regressions, and other such dreaded "r" words.

Babylon23
10-30-2006, 09:44 PM
Personally, I think DC is doing a good job of finding a balance between the different ages. They're returning to some of the more high concept ideas of the Silver Age, which is refreshing given the decade worth of grim 'n gritty we've had to endure. At the same time, they're retaining modern storytelling sensibilities, and doing their best to keep characters 3 dimensional and interesting.

Also, I don't understand the "replacing Kyle and Connor" argument. Unlike what happened in the 90's to Ollie and Hal, Kyle and Connor are still alive and fully active. Kyle is currently appearing in a miniseries, and Connor has one on the way. I'm sure that these books will get ongoing series if enough fans buy them. Personally, I think this is great for all fans; Hal fans get GL, Kyle fans get Ion (as written by the character's creator).

Gozwald73
10-30-2006, 10:22 PM
I didn't mean to come off as a Silver Age hater, Buried Alien. I really dug Johns' melding of Silver Age characters and stories with the modern day in his JSA and am enjoying Metzler's Silver Age-style JLA (and I love the Silver Age stories and era themselves that they are emulating). It's more the heavy-handed jarring changes as opposed to natural story progression, the hokey hard-to-swallow resurrections (Smith's of Ollie Queen is the big offender) just to get certain characters "alive" again, and character regression instead of progression in order to "reboot" people back to their Silver Age incarnations. I'm quite fond of the storytelling style and the characters of the Silver Age, but like RichStanz, I'd just like to see more of an attempt to naturally weave them into modern DCU and combine them with existing characters & stories instead of more reboots, retcons, regressions, and other such dreaded "r" words.

Bravo!! Post of the month!!!

Bored at 3:00AM
10-30-2006, 11:18 PM
I would just hate to see one generation of readers have to get burned because a previous generation of readers got burned. I would see editors and writers try to restore the classic elements and make them gel with the modernized approaches.

I don't see how anybody is getting burned here. Unlike with the introductions of Kyle & Conner, the return of Hal & Ollie hasn't led to Kyle & Conner being killed off, warped into mass murderers or being given completely different personalities. Instead, both these characters continue to appear regularly--written in-character--and both have comics starring them coming out every month.

The moment Kyle Rayner starts hacking his friends' hands off in a poorly concieved and written event designed to push him aside so a Silver Age character can replace him, I could start to understand all this complaining, but it seems a little premature right now.

Agentum
10-30-2006, 11:27 PM
, but some of those characters and ideas (like Kyle Rayner, Connor Hawke) were able to withstand the test of time. Mainly through the hard work of a lot of writers and artists who sturggled to make these new, blank canvas characters something the fans could get behind.

.
But these was almost failures i think, they was to be the new GA and GL but the old ones came back again.
Conner Hawke killed the GA books pretty soon.

They may stil be in DCU but they did not succeed to be what DC wanted them to be(young versions of old heroes).
And that is because they just invented Conner out of nothing and a year later or something he was to be GA, well nobody knew the character at all, a big misstake.

Bored at 3:00AM
10-30-2006, 11:37 PM
But these was almost failures i think, they was to be the new GA and GL but the old ones came back again.
Conner Hawke killed the GA books pretty soon.

They may stil be in DCU but they did not succeed to be what DC wanted them to be(young versions of old heroes).
And that is because they just invented Conner out of nothing and a year later or something he was to be GA, well nobody knew the character at all, a big misstake.

I don't know about that. Conner's Green Arrow may not have been lighting up the sales charts, but he was pretty well liked by most fans thanks to his appearances in Morrison's JLA. Same with Kyle, who got a huge boost thanks to his inclusion in the Big 7 JLA.

And while Kyle's Green Lantern rapidly started losing sales near the end, that had more to do with the fact that his comic was given a place-holder creative team to keep the comic chugging along until Geoff Johns & Ethan Van Scriver were ready to roll out Rebirth.

Neither or these characters were failures, aside from the manner in which they replaced their predecessors.

RichStanz
10-30-2006, 11:37 PM
I don't see how anybody is getting burned here. Unlike with the introductions of Kyle & Conner, the return of Hal & Ollie hasn't led to Kyle & Conner being killed off, warped into mass murderers or being given completely different personalities. Instead, both these characters continue to appear regularly--written in-character--and both have comics starring them coming out every month.

The moment Kyle Rayner starts hacking his friends' hands off in a poorly concieved and written event designed to push him aside so a Silver Age character can replace him, I could start to understand all this complaining, but it seems a little premature right now.

Good point. Its not so much fear of the characters being killed or going crazy like that. More just fear of being placed into comic book limbo because they came from a bad period, so they have negative stigma around them. But you're right it hasn't happened yet.

Bored at 3:00AM
10-30-2006, 11:42 PM
Good point. Its not so much fear of the characters being killed or going crazy like that. More just fear of being placed into comic book limbo because they came from a bad period, so they have negative stigma around them. But you're right it hasn't happened yet.

I don't think there's much chance of either of them disappearing into comic limbo anytime soon. Their time as top dog of their respective franchises, however, is definitely over. Kyle Rayner & Conner Hawke will never again be THE Green Lantern and THE Green Arrow again. DC has since realised that pinning down their iconic heroes to one specific character doesn't work unless their names are Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne.

Gozwald73
10-30-2006, 11:47 PM
... Kyle Rayner & Conner Hawke will never again be THE Green Lantern and THE Green Arrow again. DC has since realised that pinning down their iconic heroes to one specific character doesn't work unless their names are Clark Kent or Bruce Wayne.

Huh? Aren't you contradicting yourself here?

Agentum
10-30-2006, 11:54 PM
I wonder if they have realised that.
I could imagine that DC in the future with new people in the top would try to push their characters instead and kill off some of the current second raters just for chock.
And they still play around with a new Flash and some new brave world characters, so don't feel to safe:D

Bored at 3:00AM
10-31-2006, 12:01 AM
Huh? Aren't you contradicting yourself here?

Nope.

I don't think Hal & Ollie are THE Green Lantern & THE Green Arrow anymore than Kyle & Conner are. Same with The Flash.

They're legacies now. You can't pin them down to a single character any longer.

Buried Alien
10-31-2006, 12:17 AM
Nope.

I don't think Hal & Ollie are THE Green Lantern & THE Green Arrow anymore than Kyle & Conner are. Same with The Flash.

They're legacies now. You can't pin them down to a single character any longer.

That said, the Silver Age versions generally have a certain hold over the public consciousness that other versions don't quite have.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Bored at 3:00AM
10-31-2006, 02:59 AM
That said, the Silver Age versions generally have a certain hold over the public consciousness that other versions don't quite have.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

That's changing.

It's only a matter of time before the kids who grew up watching Challenge of the Super-Friends start to be out-numbered by the kids who grew up watching the Justice League cartoons.

Agentum
10-31-2006, 03:22 AM
Yes things can change fast.

There has not been any DC comics in my country for more than 10 years (only some with JLA that failed), and now the kids don't know shit about DC, Superman and Batman thats it the rest is forgotten as they just read Marvel books that has been published all the time.

So there is us older readers that was reading DC books in the 70-80, and a big part with Marvel only readers.

Well that can't happen in US, but it shows how fast things can be forgotten that isn't around.

666MasterOfPuppets
10-31-2006, 03:51 AM
For a few years now it seems that DC wants to go back to the SA concepts and powers that many of its characters had. Is this a mistake?

Well, there was some cool stuff back in the good ol' days. Sometimes the stories were kinda goofy. But for example, Grant Morrison is doing wonders with Superman. So if it's done the way Morrison has, I'd like very much the idea.

brundlefly
10-31-2006, 07:25 AM
I don't think Hal & Ollie are THE Green Lantern & THE Green Arrow anymore than Kyle & Conner are. Same with The Flash.

They're legacies now. You can't pin them down to a single character any longer.



That said, the Silver Age versions generally have a certain hold over the public consciousness that other versions don't quite have.

True, GL, GA and the Flash are all "legacy"-type characters whose mantle can be passed down from generation to generation and audiences will accept more than one person using the name (unlike with Batman and Superman). I think Buried is right about who is still seen as THE GA and GL nowadays, but frankly Wally West only got the chance to develop and become arguably THE Flash for modern audiences because Barry didn't get hauled out of the grave and back into the costume the way Ollie and Hal did.

Agentum
10-31-2006, 07:38 AM
But GA never really has been changed, ok he got a beard and an attitude in the 60s but really nobody else was GA before they tried Hawke out.

And i think it's a bit to far to base GL as a legacy type because they reinvented GL when the second superhero wave came, they had a chance because the audience was mostly a new one by then.

Ok, the older GL refused to die totally but today Hal is THE GL for most people think?

I can agree with Flash but how long did they have Wally as his sidekick before he became Flash, and Barry died a heroes dead after having bad sales for a time.
The older Flash from golden age had been in limbo for 5 years at least and not being so popular the last years at all.

I think people push this legacy thing to far looking at how many succesful legacys there has been, very few really.

Done well i think it can be a good thing, but not invent new young version week 1 and week 2 kill the old character in a stupid way and give the title to the younger one.

Bored at 3:00AM
10-31-2006, 11:10 AM
And i think it's a bit to far to base GL as a legacy type because they reinvented GL when the second superhero wave came, they had a chance because the audience was mostly a new one by then.

Ok, the older GL refused to die totally but today Hal is THE GL for most people think?


There are currently five different Green Lanterns from Earth running around the DCU, not to mention the thousands of other alien GLs out in space, I'd call that a legacy. Hal is THE GL for a lot of people, yes, but, to a growing number, that would be John thanks to the Justice League cartoon. Ask others, it would be Kyle or Guy.

Evan Lanctot
10-31-2006, 11:32 AM
I don't think they aren't so much reverting to the silver age, as much as just bringing it back to DCU continuity. The opening segment with Superman and Batman("Clark, I was almost turned into a diamond")from Justice League of America #0 is a good example of this.

Choppa
10-31-2006, 11:44 AM
Reverting back to the SA is more than just bringing back characters or concepts, it's also about the mentality. I highly doubt that we are going to see any more big crossovers or major changes done to the big heroes like Superman or Green Lanter. IC gave us DC's viewpoint of these stories by saying that all of the "changes" that Earth-I was going through were a result of the "darkness" that was plaguing it. Instead of stories that push the boundaries of normal comic book conventions, we're going to get simpler stories with clear heroes and villians.

phantom1592
10-31-2006, 02:49 PM
I love the current way of doing things. Except Aquaman. We still need the Real "classic" Aquaman back. The Silver age "characters" have always been my favorites. The only problem is the the old Silverage stories.... Well Kind of sucked.

That's what bugs me when people say, "if you want to read Barry Allen or Hal Jordan pick up Showcase/masterwork/reprint books." I don't want to reread those stories. I want NEW modern, deep, character driven Stories, only with "MY" Heroes.

Pól Rua
10-31-2006, 06:39 PM
No.
They ARE however, making a mistake by assuming that if you re-hash a quality idea it will result in quality storytelling.
Regurgitating old ideas will not make stories good.
Producing good stories will.

The map is not the territory.

Buried Alien
10-31-2006, 06:41 PM
Alex Ross' JUSTICE is a pretty good guide on how to do new stories with the old Silver Age characters and conventions. THE NAIL and of course THE NEW FRONTIER also provide cues.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

David O Burcham
10-31-2006, 10:52 PM
I think of The Nail as being a "Bronze Age"/late70's-early80's story as opposed to Silver Age.

Buried Alien
10-31-2006, 11:02 PM
I think of The Nail as being a "Bronze Age"/late70's-early80's story as opposed to Silver Age.

Yeah. When we say "Silver Age" here, we really mean Bronze Age more. During the Bronze Age, you still had the classic Silver Age conventions (i.e. Multiverse, Dick Grayson as Robin, Barry Allen as Flash, Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, Oliver Queen as Green Arrow, Wally West as Kid Flash, Donna Troy as Wonder Girl, JLA with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman as founding and permanent members, etc.), but with storytelling style closer to today's than that of the *true* Silver Age of 1956-1969.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Gozwald73
10-31-2006, 11:17 PM
Yeah. When we say "Silver Age," here, we really mean Bronze Age more. During the Bronze Age, you still had the classic Silver Age conventions (i.e. Multiverse, Dick Grayson as Robin, Barry Allen as Flash, Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, Oliver Queen as Green Arrow, Wally West as Kid Flash, Donna Troy as Wonder Girl, JLA with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman as founding and permanent members, etc.), but with storytelling style closer to today's than that of the *true* Silver Age of 1956-1969.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Hmm kinda like how people always rag on early 90s music by referring to it as 80s music

Buried Alien
10-31-2006, 11:37 PM
Hmm kinda like how people always rag on early 90s music by referring to it as 80s music

Pretty much. At the risk of going off-topic (although you may start a thread at the Music Forum if you like), 1980s pop music generally went on until 1991 until Nirvana's NEVERMIND made grunge all the vogue. Until that point, the Top 40 pop charts in the U.S. and Britain from 1990 and the first half of 1991 didn't really look all that much different from the charts in 1988 and 1989. It was still dominated by Hair Metal, Milli Vanilli, New Kids on the Block, Paula Abdul, etc.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Paragon
10-31-2006, 11:49 PM
Yeah. When we say "Silver Age," here, we really mean Bronze Age more. During the Bronze Age, you still had the classic Silver Age conventions (i.e. Multiverse, Dick Grayson as Robin, Barry Allen as Flash, Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, Oliver Queen as Green Arrow, Wally West as Kid Flash, Donna Troy as Wonder Girl, JLA with Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman as founding and permanent members, etc.), but with storytelling style closer to today's than that of the *true* Silver Age of 1956-1969.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I can’t agree with you more.
I find that the books I target for my collection more than any other’s tend to be ones from between ’75 and 85. (Later bronze age).

The earlier stories tend to be too simplistic, and the later ones too gory.

The art was generally nice and clean, there was good diverse material, and the universe was conceptually rich. The storytelling tone was right. The villains were at their most interesting.

And that is really what I would love to have. The bronze age setting, with modern storytelling sophistication.