MI Governor Race: Granholm or Devos?

[o1pickleboy]

With the election weeks away. I have begun to worry about who is going to be Governor next term. With the State economic as bad as it is. Any wrong move could kill the state. So this race is very tight and important to Michigan Residents.

So I have to ask CBR. Who would you vote for Dick Devos or Jennifer Granholm.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_DeVos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Granholm

http://www.devosforgovernor.com/

http://www.granholmforgov.com/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage2

[Paradox]

Granholm's weak and ineffective, if well-intentioned.

I wouldn't trust De Vos to baby sit my dog, if for no other reason than his involvement in his father's ponzi scheme.

Back to the indys for me

[o1pickleboy]

I have to ask Doxy, where is she been weak and inefffiective. I just wonder how the auto industries problems link to her.

[Paradox]

I'm not BLAMING her for the problems. As I said, she's well-intentioned (and I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here, because I've always considered here a Hillary style "whatever makes me look good and gets me votes" politician).

But what HAS she done? She made some MINOR trims in spending, raised the cigarette tax, and made a trip to Japan. The State congress blocks her all the time because it's Republican, but that shows me she doesn't know how to get support from the other side (whose fault is that? Well, hard to tell, but it ain't working).

[o1pickleboy]

I'm not BLAMING her for the problems. As I said, she's well-intentioned (and I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt here, because I've always considered here a Hillary style "whatever makes me look good and gets me votes" politician).

But what HAS she done? She made some MINOR trims in spending, raised the cigarette tax, and made a trip to Japan. The State congress blocks her all the time because it's Republican, but that shows me she doesn't know how to get support from the other side (whose fault is that? Well, hard to tell, but it ain't working).

I understand where you are coming for now. I just never got the economic is all her fault agruemet I hear from, like everyone I meet. I assume you where going for the same arguement. I am sorry if I came off harsh.

As for what she has done. She got Toyoda and Google to invest. When Mexico and China are so much cheaper. I don't think Devos or anyone else could have achieved that. Plus she did elimate the 4 billion in debt that Engler left.

[Paradox]

Taken to an extreme with candidates, I usually consider Democrats to be ineffectual folks with a nanny mentality, and Republicans to be self-serving uncaring greed monsters.

I rarely have anyone to vote FOR, so I always try to make my little "statement" that we need more choices by voting independent. Last Gubernatorial candidate I actually voted FOR was Howard Wolpe, because he was an honest, straight forward guy interested only in helping out his constituency, regardless of party. You see where he got...gerrymandered out of even his congressional seat.

[o1pickleboy]

Well at least you are going to vote. I have been talking to my co worker's about voting. When they talk about not liking either candiate. I explain about the ballot proposals and how they should at least come out to vote for them. Then I lead in to if you out there you should at least make it worth while and vote in every column. I even tell them to vote independant and explain each fo the party stances(as best I can) and give them party names to look up online. I have been alot stronger with this since I learn about matching funds at 5%. I may not be voting independant in this election, but I feel we need more options and their voices to fix things.

[Paradox]

I ALWAYS vote. It's tied to my bitching rights. :)

Only thing I don't vote for is all that Board of U of M and MSU stuff. I haven't got a CLUE there and am equally likely to make a bad choice as a good one. I don't know anything about judges, either, but at least I have two lawyers in the house to advise me there.

[Royal]

I'd vote Campbell.

People 'round here don't have the guts to do it, but oh well.

[TheTen-EyedMan]

If I lived there...Jennifer Granholm. Cause she's hot.

[metr0man]

hell i'd vote for granholm for President if it was possible (she was born in Canada though i think)

[TheTen-EyedMan]

hell i'd vote for granholm for President if it was possible (she was born in Canada though i think)

Vancouver...I think.


*EDIT*

Granholm was born in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, in 1959,

Praise be to Wiki!!!!

I RULE!!!!

[Novaya Havoc]

Dick DeVos is horrible. Jenny G is fabulous. Therefore, Granholm wins.

EDIT: Already proudly voted for her, by the way.

[Zero Hunter]

Both pretty much suck. The only thing I really can base it on is she has had 4 years and the state is in the toilet. I know she probably had to spend the first 2 years cleaning up the garbage Engler left but still. Devos doesn't have much better standing in my eyes with his ultra christain views on some things, but he might have a better bussiness sence on how to turn things around maybe.

The bottom line is Michigan has to become more bussiness freindly to get new stuff going and keep old stuff here. I don't think Granholm really gets that part. All the other stuff is great and all, but if bussiness can't afford to run here then jobs are going to continue to flow out. It is all going to be about jobs, and who the people think can create more.

I hate to vote for either really.

[Frodo-X]

Not a real fan of either, but I despise Granholm.

[Novaya Havoc]

Both pretty much suck. The only thing I really can base it on is she has had 4 years and the state is in the toilet. I know she probably had to spend the first 2 years cleaning up the garbage Engler left but still. Devos doesn't have much better standing in my eyes with his ultra christain views on some things, but he might have a better bussiness sence on how to turn things around maybe.

The bottom line is Michigan has to become more bussiness freindly to get new stuff going and keep old stuff here. I don't think Granholm really gets that part. All the other stuff is great and all, but if bussiness can't afford to run here then jobs are going to continue to flow out. It is all going to be about jobs, and who the people think can create more.

I hate to vote for either really.

Granholm gets it. Everyone screaming "BUT SHE HAD FOUR YEARS!" are quick to deny the realities of the policy process and politics 101.

Politics 101 is that the Republican legislature has never taken a step forward to work with Granholm on her initiatives. Granholm is a fiscal hawk and a left-leaning centrist, and when she got into office, she did her best to try and bring the state together on bi-partisanship and good faith, trying to quell the partisan rancor that had emerged in the Engler years.

It didn't work. While the legislature fiddles around with abortion laws and the Attorney General and the legislature were working in tandem to revoke partnership benefits for municipalities like Kalamazoo after the gay marriage amendment, they have never come together on a solid economic plan.

Then what do they do? "It's Granholm. She isn't working with us." They're our legislature -- they pass the bills, and she signs them. Granholm cannot executive order her initiatives in, and the good ol' Repubs in Lansing are obsessed with the smoke-cloud "nanny state" accusation ("welfare, social workers, medi-care/caid/anything are taking your tax dollars and draaaaaining the state!!") to drum up votes and think that if they tax-break the State into Nicaragua levels that we'll build from ground zero.

It won't work to turn the state around, and they've been nerfing the Gov since day one until they can have a good ol' boy like DeVos in to give corporate tax breaks (like the property tax, which will plunge us deeper into the red) and go back to fiddling with those pet social issues like welfare and abortion rights.

Where Granholm failed was to push the legislature and stick it to them for there incompetence and partisan stalling tactics. She thought she could play nice, and the legislators would turn around. Didn't happen.

DeVos' "business-world experience" of tax cuts and free trade will not assist the state. Businesses that leave for cheaper markets abroad will leave. The Electrolux plant taught us that with their offer of 0% municipal and state tax rate and concessions from the local workforce. All the tax breaks in the world are not more palatable than an inexpensive labor market devoid of any additional costs like healthcare and benefits.

Worse, DeVos still runs on repealing the single business-tax, which has already been repealed! That's like running a national platform on a "Defense of Marriage Act" bill. It's already happened, bucko. Find a new plank in the platform.

Granholm is committed to making tough budget decisions -- she's balanced it every year, after all -- and also to investing what we have in the proper areas: urban centers for tourism dollars (which DeVos would slash), high-tech manufacturing and life sciences in the 21st century job fund, and K-12 education to bring up the educational level of the workforce.

All of this takes time. It takes well over a year to draft and propose a large proposal on healthcare -- for example -- and takes even longer to pass, fund, and implement.

You can't go from being the "Automobile State" to a diverse and robust economy in four years. Granholm is on the right track. She just needs more friends in Lansing and more time to see the effects of what she's implemented in the first term.

[o1pickleboy]

To add, Granholm has tied state spending to the state economy. By executive order 85% of the state of Michigan spending is spend with Michigan Bussinesses.

Plus she has club Keno which funds the state education. She was very creative in thinking of new ways to get revenue. Instead of boring taxes we got the entertaining Keno.

[Frodo-X]

To add, Granholm has tied state spending to the state economy. By executive order 85% of the state of Michigan spending is spend with Michigan Bussinesses.

Plus she has club Keno which funds the state education. She was very creative in thinking of new ways to get revenue. Instead of boring taxes we got the entertaining Keno.

I find further taxing of the smoking community rather boring. And irritating. I'm not even a smoker and I can tell that it's unfair and stupid to keep nailing one group of people over and over.

Why don't they increase taxes on alcohol for a change? It's far more dangerous yet somehow isn't as hated.

Odd.

[o1pickleboy]

I find further taxing of the smoking community rather boring. And irritating. I'm not even a smoker and I can tell that it's unfair and stupid to keep nailing one group of people over and over.

Why don't they increase taxes on alcohol for a change? It's far more dangerous yet somehow isn't as hated.

Odd.


I agree with your statement in intent. The problem is poliitcs right now smokers are a easy target and alochol is not. Add in the fact that taxes on alochol has never ended up on a positive note. It is those factors that make the way it is. Both for Granholm and the state Leg which decide these things. I have to wonder those of you against Granholm for the failing economy are you voting against your state rep who is equally to blame.

On the cigarette tax. Would you rather everyone get taxed for doing bussiness as normal or A faction of the people for doing something wrong?

[Frodo-X]

My dislike of Granholm isn't solely based on the economy. I don't like that she wants to tax movie tickets, she spent money to figure out why deer cross the road, and other stuff like that.

As for the cigarette tax, I don't think throwing money at our problems fixes anything. It seems like the more money the State gets, the more they blow it.

But if they must have more money, it's fine for them to tax individual groups. I just don't like that they keep hitting the same group over and over.

[o1pickleboy]

My dislike of Granholm isn't solely based on the economy. I don't like that she wants to tax movie tickets, she spent money to figure out why deer cross the road, and other stuff like that.

As for the cigarette tax, I don't think throwing money at our problems fixes anything. It seems like the more money the State gets, the more they blow it.

But if they must have more money, it's fine for them to tax individual groups. I just don't like that they keep hitting the same group over and over.


I can get your dislike for her for actions. I just hear from everyone up here that the economy is all her fault. I don't see it. The american auto industry was doomed the minute NAFTA was signed. Nealy a decade before Jenn took office.

[Frodo-X]

Oh, there's no doubt Michigan was (and is) waaaay to reliant on the auto industry.

It's like the way Pennsylvania was with coal. If we aren't careful we'll run into the same problems they had.

[o1pickleboy]

Oh, there's no doubt Michigan was (and is) waaaay to reliant on the auto industry.

It's like the way Pennsylvania was with coal. If we aren't careful we'll run into the same problems they had.


The worst thing about it was we have been down this road before in the 80's. and the state just reinvested in Auto instead of other industries.

[(A)//(E)]

still need more research on indies, no more Granholm and NO DeVoss EVER.
I might not even vote if nothing I find is to my liking.

[Royal]

we can possibly be the leading provider of alternative fuels. The next Saudi Arabia.

Nah. heh. We're not that smart.

[Novaya Havoc]

I find further taxing of the smoking community rather boring. And irritating. I'm not even a smoker and I can tell that it's unfair and stupid to keep nailing one group of people over and over.

Why don't they increase taxes on alcohol for a change? It's far more dangerous yet somehow isn't as hated.

Odd.

It's all relative bucko. I pay 7.50 - 8 bucks a pack here in Chicago, and I have dreams of the days when I can go to Michigan and get their cheap cigarettes.

The cigarette tax in Michigan should be the least of your concerns.

[Novaya Havoc]

we can possibly be the leading provider of alternative fuels. The next Saudi Arabia.

Nah. heh. We're not that smart.

Jen's trying with the 21st century Jobs Fund.

[Paradox]

Novaya Havoc seems a bit misdirected:

It's all relative bucko. I pay 7.50 - 8 bucks a pack here in Chicago, and I have dreams of the days when I can go to Michigan and get their cheap cigarettes.

The cigarette tax in Michigan should be the least of your concerns.

I get your point, but it seems a bit odd, as to even get to Michigan you have to go through a state that has far cheaper cigarettes than we do.

[Novaya Havoc]

I get your point, but it seems a bit odd, as to even get to Michigan you have to go through a state that has far cheaper cigarettes than we do.

When you take Amtrak, you can't just stop in Indiana to buy cigarettes. ;P

[Paradox]

Ah, and a fun cheap ride it is, as I recall. :)

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em!

[o1pickleboy]

I am really starting to fear for Jennifer. I was at my monthly union meeting and politcs came up.(in a reminder to vote statement) and cheer for Devos came up. (DEVOS, DEVOS, DEVOS.)

When union people are divided on who to vote for it isn't a good sign for the labor friendly candiate.

[Royal]

Jen's trying with the 21st century Jobs Fund.

That's nice and all, but do you really think that matters now.

Around here, it's all about whose got theirs. screw the rest.

[Pól Rua]

So disappointed.
I thought it said Devo.

http://www.punknews.org/images/bands/devo.jpg

I would totally vote for Devo.
They comprehend MY Potato.

*nods firmly*

[Royal]

Right area, wrong state.

Metropolis is south m'man.