What Should Be Done With Ultimate X-Men?

[Mister Mets]

When Ultimate X-Men premiered, it was the best-selling title of the year.
Now it's getting topped by the Ultimates, Ultimate Spider-Man, and the other Wolverine/ X-men titles. It also seems to me that it has lost much of its critical buzz, and reason for existing (a book with a streamlined version of the X-universe.)

Marvel's been quietly promoting an upcoming storyline by Bryan Synger & his X-men films/ Superman Returns screenwriters/ Steve McNiven for years, and I think that's been limiting what the other writers are able to do (as they have no idea how long their arcs are, and they know that there are some things they won't be able to do.)

With all these problems with the book, what should Marvel do with a book that still has more than solid sales?
I'll post my ideas soon.

[Mister Mets]

My suggestions for Marvel

1. Be willing to cancel the book. If they're unable to come up with creators/ storylines that give the book the buzz it should have, they should be willing to drop it rather than let it drag down the reputation of the X-titles/ Ultimate books. With Ultimate Wolverine, and Ultimate Wolverine VS Hulk, there's going to be no shortage of X-men related projects in the Ultimate Universe, and Ultimates X-Men can get a high profile relaunch with its A-list creative team, somewhere down the line.

2. The future storylines should be movie-length (ie- six issues or more.) That was one of the cool things with the Ultimate X-Men stories, when each storyline was like an X-Men film. In contrast, the later 3-4 part Ultimate stories (by BKV and Kirkman) have felt more like episodes of an hourly TV show. The scale has been smaller, and there's been more storyline to storyline continuity, which limits the interest and buzz in the individual storylines.

3. Surprise readers. Just because Marvel can't change the status quo of Singer & co's first script doesn't mean that they can't have heroes acting badly (as long as it's in character) or maim characters Singer won't touch. Nightcrawler's warped abduction of Dazzler was one example of this.

[malephoenix]

_______________


(by BKV and Vaughan)

:confused:

[Omega Alpha]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

[Hippy-san]

well, i think the book is doing well right now and does surprise readers, not all the time due to Kirkman's need to have the X-men pair up, but there are a few big changes-Cable, for instance...didn't see that one coming, didja?
i guess the main reason for it's drop in popularity was because the X movies just stopped happening and casual fans have no idea who the hell Cable is or even care, this one can go off and be semi-obscure with characters the public doesn't know about and i'd be fine
but, if you really wanted the book to sell better you'd attach a top-notch creative team and kill off one of the characters...that'd get people to at least buy the book, not that i condone it, of course

[ThePhenom]

I don't think the titles a lost cause and I think cancelling and restarting at a later date would be a terrible idea, the Ultimate series is so established with their 4 ongoings and lots of mini's, it would just seem so strange to remove the whole X-Men ongoing in favour of mini's.

I DEFINATELY think Kirkman should be off the title (not fired, just removed from the Ultimate universe forever) and I think going backwards in terms of UXM writers would seem the opposite of progressive (unless Bendis, I mean he was by no means my fav writer on UXM but he would get sales up yet keep the series somewhat entertaining).

I'm not too fond of Oliver or Raney on UXM but I think Paquette is going to make it look worse, a lot cruder, but I don't see any real alternatives so I have no suggestions there (Peterson again, Ferry perhaps).

But I think changing the creative team up would be ideal, Kirkman's run will end and hopefully Singer will go on and bring the comic back up to scratch.

[MaxofSteel]

I think the current Cable arc is doing pretty well for sales. It got me to pick up an UXM issue for the first time.

[Sparda]

Get rid of kirkman and let Chris Claremount try his hand at the title.

[Frodo-X]

So, Omega Alpha, you were a little vague earlier?

Do you like Kirkman?

:D

[kel25]

So, Omega Alpha, you were a little vague earlier?

Do you like Kirkman?

:D
LOL I love this reply.

Yeah I agree that Kirkman should be removed from the book and maybe a better artist to attract other readers.

I really don’t see a need to shrink the team but I wouldn’t add more characters to it for a while either.

I love that characters like Deadpool, Reavers, Omega Red, and soon Venom are showing up in titles that we normally don’t expect them to be in. Since the majority of heroes and villains operate in New York it would make no sense that there isn’t crossover.

At the same time introducing characters and using them as throw away (Example: Omega Red) really should be stopped. They could easily create a nobody villain for that. Although with the Ultimate universe I think we would have the problem of people trying to figure out who was just Ultimatized.

[Grunty]

Well first remove Kirkman!
So far to the things most of us are sure about.

Second:
Personaly i think they should stop the black parade cameo apearances.
That means stop letting character resembling 616 X-men characters apear just to get killed.
Like Blink, Synch, Maggot etc.
I mean what the hell do they want to acomplish with that? If they don't want to use these characters then they simply shouldn't intruce them to that universe.

But what is it good for to use known faces as random fictims? To see the sad faces of theire fans?

Third: Stop making each and everything in the X-men a Dick! I know the whole reason of the Ultimate universe is that everything there is screwed up with that there are no good people just lesser evils and everything is dark and hopeless. But does that really mean each male character has to be a dick and each female a slut?
I can be wrong but for me the Ult. X-men book let me feel this way.

Fourth: NO LAME ORIGINAL CHARACTERS!
Magican was the worse that they ever came up with. I mean a strange reality warper that is somewhat crazed up?
Where did i saw that before? Hmm... Scarlet... Scarlet... something with Witch?
First rule to a create a good character is to NOT make him/her uberpowerfull without a weak spot as big as theire powers. Since if they are too powerfull it will be the only thing theire characters are about. And thats totaly lame. So either build in a weakness compareable strong to theire powers or it becomes a lamefest.
Magican clearly didn't showed any weakness as even his death was planned by himself.
So i think Magican can get the prize for the lamest original ultimate character.

Maybe intruce someone who could take the job as Housedoctor for the X-men... D'oh there are already enough 616 characters who could take that place.

[1WEBHEAD]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

Might I suggest firing Kirkman?:evilsmile

[carabas]

I think the fix is fairly simple: Stop trying to be 616 X-Men. Do Big Stories with a minor soap element, not teenage soap operas with mutants.

Have Ultimate Xavier return to form, he used to be a bastard who didn't think twice about using his powers to their full extent. Reading people without permission, erasing memories, changing minds, even with his X-Men.
And he wasn't guilty about it in the slightest, unlike his rather spineles 616 counterpart who has been going in that direction.
The real Ultimate Xavier has been gone since Millar left (with a short comeback in the issue Steve Dillon drew.

also, and this can't be stressed enough, tell Bryan Singer exactly where he can stuff his arc and stop killing time.

Also, take anyone who even slightly suggests doing an actual story about alternate time lines and ancient genocidal purple lipped mutants out the back and shoot them.
Ultimate Apocalypse was perfect the way Vaughn did him.

[rwsmith]

Mark Millar and Steve McNiven (with Mike McKone providing fill-ins to ensure that it ships monthly).

[The Foreigner]

Mark Millar and Steve McNiven (with Mike McKone providing fill-ins to ensure that it ships monthly).

Mark Millar doesn't re-visit titles he's previously written.

And I prefer lateness if it means more McNiven art.

[Enigmanaut]

The problem I have with UXM is that it really isn't much fun. I mean, sure the X-Men are supposed to be in a high turmoil life, but the X-Men of old still had fun occasionally. They related to each other, and built a family. These X-Men never seem to have any levity, and seem to barely be able to stand each other. It's just no fun.

[Enigmanaut]

Bugger. Double Post.

[Weapon Ick]

I'd like to see more original characters and less ultimate versions of 616 characters. There's nothing wrong with Ultimate counterparts and I still want to see new ones but I can't even bring to mind any original ultimate charaters off the top of my head right now.

[Cayman]

When Ultimate X-Men premiered, it was the best-selling title of the year.
Now it's getting topped by the Ultimates, Ultimate Spider-Man, and the other Wolverine/ X-men titles. It also seems to me that it has lost much of its critical buzz, and reason for existing (a book with a streamlined version of the X-universe.)

Marvel's been quietly promoting an upcoming storyline by Bryan Synger & his X-men films/ Superman Returns screenwriters/ Steve McNiven for years, and I think that's been limiting what the other writers are able to do (as they have no idea how long their arcs are, and they know that there are some things they won't be able to do.)

With all these problems with the book, what should Marvel do with a book that still has more than solid sales?
I'll post my ideas soon.

It just needs a good new creative team immediately.

[Sgt. Preston]

This X-book is my least favourite of them all now. I agree with other posters, the current creative team is not cutting it. Ultimate X has lost it's edge. Oh...and fix Nightcrawler for crying out loud!

[Mister Mets]

Thanks for the responses, guys. Keep em coming. Even if it's "What the hell are you talking about? The X-Men have never been this good."


1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

I gotta agree with firing Kirkman. He's a good writer (see Invincible/ The Walking Dead), but he's had nine issues to knock our socks off, and has failed. Compare that to Millar, Bendis, and BKV's first nine issues. All had their flaws, but all had some great highs (the finale of the Tomorrow People, the Wolverine solo story in New Mutants, and first chapter of BKV"s Gambit arc.)

I don't see the problem with using X-men concepts in other books, especially if no Ultimate X-men writer was planning on using them. The X-men writer could use other marvel concepts the Ultimates writers/ Bendis don't plan on using, or bring back these guys as X-men villains.

I also don't think the Ultimate characters should be different from the 616 ones. The Ultimate Universe was from what I understand- getting to the core of a character (ie- Wolverine as enigmatic loose cannon.)

A smaller Ultimate X-Men would probably be a good idea.


Get rid of kirkman and let Chris Claremount try his hand at the title.
I think this would be a bad move, as Claremont's writing is notoriously inaccessible, and Ultimate writers have generally been young or "hot" (in the case of Jeph Loeb, who is not young but is certainly popular) guys who haven't worked on the liscence before.

[RichStanz]

I'd like to see more original characters and less ultimate versions of 616 characters. There's nothing wrong with Ultimate counterparts and I still want to see new ones but I can't even bring to mind any original ultimate charaters off the top of my head right now.

That's actually my suggestion.

Since Morrison's ideas for mutants were not received permanently and comfortably, maybe try adapting some of those ideas for the ultimate universe.

I'm less interested in seeing the "Ultimate Morlocks" than am in the idea of disaffected young mutant culture.

Since the ultimate universe is so streamlined, the ideas of mutant population boom or reduction, mutants around the world, mutants with powers that don't translate to superheroics work much better. The only contonuity they would be stepping on is Spider-Man, the F4 and the Ultimates.

[creaky]

The problem I have with UXM is that it really isn't much fun. I mean, sure the X-Men are supposed to be in a high turmoil life, but the X-Men of old still had fun occasionally. They related to each other, and built a family. These X-Men never seem to have any levity, and seem to barely be able to stand each other. It's just no fun.

I agree. It's kind of hard to care about characters that rarely seem to care about anyone else.

[Omega Alpha]

So, Omega Alpha, you were a little vague earlier?

Do you like Kirkman?

:D

Well... not really, was it easy to get?:D

[jam37wcc]

I think they need to forget about Bryan Singer doing a run, because ever since they announced him the book hasn't really been able to do anything. It's like it is just fill-ins until he comes onboard. We've gotten some good stories but I think it is holding the series back.

[Romus]

What Should Be Done With Ultimate X-Men?

Cancel it...

I really don't care for any of these characters. And this is from the start, not just because of the current writer.

Millar just gave us little thrills to go on in the beginning, and the neatness of seeing things in a new light, but overall the whole series has had no meat to it. It's just fluff.

[kel25]

What Should Be Done With Ultimate X-Men?

Cancel it...

I really don't care for any of these characters. And this is from the start, not just because of the current writer.

Millar just gave us little thrills to go on in the beginning, and the neatness of seeing things in a new light, but overall the whole series has had no meat to it. It's just fluff.
You could pretty much say the same thing with Wolverine's solo. Should we cancel that too? :rolleyes: Just because you don't like the series doesn't mean everyone hates the title.

[Canemacar]

1: Change creative teams and forget about Singer. Kirkman has been, at best, lackluster, and just plain awful at worst. For whatever the reason, he just doesn't work here and has already wasted a lot of good storypotiential and completely ruined at least two characters. Singer doesn't seem like he's ever going to get around to doing it and he needs to stop holding everyone up.

2: Make the characters more likeable. Out of all the Ultimate X-men, I only even kinda like one of them. The rest are just assholes with superpowers. They don't have to have Superman level morality, but I would like to see them being less despicable.

3: Give the mutant concept more depth like Morrison was doing with his "mutant subculture" idea. This would be the best place to impliment it and it would really strike a chord with younger readers if done well.

4: Cut down on the cast. Some writers can easliy juggle a large cast and still tell a great story and give characters depth, but they're few and far between. Get rid of Wolverine(since he's apparently gettingan Ultimate solo too), let a few others drift into other Ultimate titles(like Kitty into Spider-man), and stop introducing so many new mutants.

5: Bring back Beast and Gambit.

[creaky]

5: Bring back Beast and Gambit.

Noooo. Let the Ultimate Dead stay Ultimate Dead!

[Canemacar]

Too late for that.

[creaky]

Too late for that.

Bah. I don't care what happened in other titles. Let Ultimate Dead X-men stay Ultimate Dead. We have enough of people coming back to life in 616. Death should be death, it should have an impact, or there's never any edge to anything.

[Omega Alpha]

Too late for that.

Bendis, of course...

[kel25]

Bendis, of course...
It's unfair to place all the blame on him when other writers have also killed characters.

[creaky]

Bendis, of course...

Curious...who did Bendis kill and revive?

[Canemacar]

I know he did Hammerhead. Gwen Stacy probably counts too.

[curefreak]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.My name is curefreak and i heartily endorse this message..
thank you

[Faded]

I'd honestly like to see them reboot.

Most notably, without Kirkman, the Magician, or Singer.

I'd prefer to see more visionaries on the title.

Make the X-Men different, but also keep it tied to its primary theme.

Take more chances, play on dynamics that would be ironic based on the 616.

Ka-boom, that is all. :)

[curefreak]

I'm not read to count Singer out yet especially if any problems he has coming on board may not be his fault,
and he certainly cant be blamed for Kirkmans lousy work.

[Clairaudient Freedom Soldier]

Let Adam Warren & Frazer Irving revamp the Ultimate X-Men from scratch and produce the first 24 issues of the series, then pass the title to J. M. Straczynski & Leinil Yu for the next 24 issues, and then Marvel can release Ultimate X-Men: It Ends Again by Joss Whedon & J. H. Williams III, the 5-issue arc that, well, brings the title to an end.

And the core cast of X-Men should be as follows:
1. The Mimic >> a version of the character that is somewhat similar to the one seen in the Exiles but with an "ultimate" twist :cool:
2. Beast
3. Marvel Girl (Jean)
4. Cyclops >> he is romantically involved with Polaris
5. Bishop >> he is a scientist-prophet from an alternate past in this incarnation
6. Polaris
And over the 53 issues of the series, only 3 additional X-Men are introduced; namely, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Kid Vulcan :p . Do you like these ideas?

[alextron]

Ultimate X-men seems to outlasted it's concept. I've only read one issue in the last four years, however it seems too complicated but not good like the original books. Apparently, Nightcrawler is crazy or mad or something. Whatever. Colossus gay? High concept there:confused: .

How could new readers even figure out what is what?

[alextron]

Ultimate X-men seems to outlasted it's concept. I've only read one issue in the last four years, however it seems too complicated but not good like the original books. Apparently, Nightcrawler is crazy or mad or something. Whatever. Colossus gay? High concept there:confused: .

How could new readers even figure out what is what?

[curefreak]

Ultimate X-men seems to outlasted it's concept. I've only read one issue in the last four years, however it seems too complicated but not good like the original books. Apparently, Nightcrawler is crazy or mad or something. Whatever. Colossus gay? High concept there:confused: .

How could new readers even figure out what is what?well if you read it every month you wouldn't have any problems figuring out whats going on...

[Tobias March]

Let Adam Warren & Frazer Irving revamp the Ultimate X-Men from scratch and produce the first 24 issues of the series

:D Nice


5. Bishop >> he is a scientist-prophet from an alternate past in this

Bendis already introduced him during the New Mutants arc. He's an ex-con in the Ultimate verse.

[Radical_dreamer]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

Quoted for truth. Especially 8. God PLEASE. This isn't a race to ultimatize every mutant. It's fun for one issue and then....meh. I'm sorry but introducing Bishop and Cable in two consecutive issues (and giving them the same backstory basically) borders on the retarded.
Also, if not a cutting of the cast. Maybe have a rotating one. focus on teams of 4-5 per storyline.

and most importantly...stop beeing so damn safe! Vaughan gave us the power rangers on crack and except for Nightcrawler (which I LOVE) Kirkman is doing the same thing.

Also...get a good artist. It's half the damn medium. Oliver Coipel would be perfection. Wasted on Thor really.

Another thing....Synger. it's been 2 years. LET IT GO! He had his chance he didn't take it stop relying on it so much. "oh it's gonna get good one day, just you wait! wait for it, it's gonna be awesome!"

[creaky]

and most importantly...stop beeing so damn safe!

Well, Kirkman has said he intends to do exactly that.

[Clairaudient Freedom Soldier]

Bendis already introduced him during the New Mutants arc. He's an ex-con in the Ultimate verse.

And that is 1 of the many reasons why Ultimate X-Men needs to be revamped from scratch :) .

[Alan2099]

well if you read it every month you wouldn't have any problems figuring out whats going on...
Kinda makes it hard to attract nw readers with that attitude.

[Jeff-E]

Quit waiting of B.Singer. That's it, that's the change. Apparently since he has a paticular story he wants to tell it's limiting the stories of the current writers. It's been long enough if he was going to get around to writing the definitive UltXmen story he would have done it already. Kirkman just needs to be left alone to tell whatever he wants to tell. I know people hated it but I liked his twist on Nightcrawler, it made sense to me. He looks like a classic interpretation of a demon, and he's been tortured by Weapon X... I can see where that might make him a little nuts and not the nice well balanced character we see in 616.

[Orbis De Ignis]

Bah. I don't care what happened in other titles. Let Ultimate Dead X-men stay Ultimate Dead. We have enough of people coming back to life in 616. Death should be death, it should have an impact, or there's never any edge to anything.

The problem is Bendis's deaths never have any impact. I don't know who wrote Gambit's death but that was done "Bendis Style" too.

The only impact their deaths have had(aside from some cool Rogue stuff) were to make the book feel more empty.

It sounds like you just copy those arguments off other posters using them at times when they actually apply.

I don't think there should be any golden rule to storytelling apart from to tell a good story and not piss off the fans too much. Leaving Beast and Gwen Stacy dead was not making for good stories.

The reason some characters like 616 Gwen stayed dead was because their deaths DID have an impact. People cared about them and cared about them dying, but at the same time could "get over them" and learn to empathise and adapt as the character did.

Bendis learned his lesson with Gwen pretty soon afterwards(I think he made plans to revive her about 5 months later). I hope someone brings back Beast. I think we all felt sorry for him.

Didn't Fury have Beast earmarked for joining the Ultimates? It would have been cool if that's why his death was faked - he was to be given a new costumed identity as an Ultimate after laying low for a few months(otherwise it would be a bit too suspicious).

[Omega Alpha]

Ultimate X-men seems to outlasted it's concept. I've only read one issue in the last four years, however it seems too complicated but not good like the original books. Apparently, Nightcrawler is crazy or mad or something. Whatever. Colossus gay? High concept there:confused: .

How could new readers even figure out what is what?

Simple: stop basing your views of the characters on the 616 ones. They are different characters or different versions of this characters and you will not see them doing the exact same things (if they are written well). Although none of the changes to me was so big as Cyclops as a villain, Sabretooth as a hero and Magneto leading the X-men in AoA.



Quit waiting of B.Singer. That's it, that's the change. Apparently since he has a paticular story he wants to tell it's limiting the stories of the current writers. It's been long enough if he was going to get around to writing the definitive UltXmen story he would have done it already.

Amen.

[Enigmanaut]

Colossus gay? High concept there:confused: .



And before this, I always thought "Gay Colossus" referred to Mr. Sinister. ;)

[Alan2099]

And before this, I always thought "Gay Colossus" referred to Mr. Sinister. ;)
That's "Goth Colossus." It's an easy mistake to make. Don't worry about it. :p

[Mister Mets]

Well, Kirkman has said he intends to do exactly that.
He had nine issues.


Let Adam Warren & Frazer Irving revamp the Ultimate X-Men from scratch and produce the first 24 issues of the series, then pass the title to J. M. Straczynski & Leinil Yu for the next 24 issues, and then Marvel can release Ultimate X-Men: It Ends Again by Joss Whedon & J. H. Williams III, the 5-issue arc that, well, brings the title to an end.

And the core cast of X-Men should be as follows:
1. The Mimic >> a version of the character that is somewhat similar to the one seen in the Exiles but with an "ultimate" twist :cool:
2. Beast
3. Marvel Girl (Jean)
4. Cyclops >> he is romantically involved with Polaris
5. Bishop >> he is a scientist-prophet from an alternate past in this incarnation
6. Polaris
And over the 53 issues of the series, only 3 additional X-Men are introduced; namely, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Kid Vulcan :p . Do you like these ideas?
Nope.
I think starting the book over again is confusing to anyone who dropped it recently, and un-necessary.
However, you do name some good creative teams.


well if you read it every month you wouldn't have any problems figuring out whats going on...
One point of the Ultimate run was that a new reader can pick up any issue, and figure out what's going on.

Although it does seem like alextron was able to figure out what was going on. He just didn't understand how the stuff happened (which is un-necessary to understanding what happened.)

[sgt pepper]

Of course this was on top when it was new. It was a new X book.

All it needs is to start telling good stories again and it's going to be fine. I like Kirkman, but he's terrible on this book.

[curefreak]

He had nine issues.


Nope.
I think starting the book over again is confusing to anyone who dropped it recently, and un-necessary.
However, you do name some good creative teams.


One point of the Ultimate run was that a new reader can pick up any issue, and figure out what's going on.

Although it does seem like alextron was able to figure out what was going on. He just didn't understand how the stuff happened (which is un-necessary to understanding what happened.)Well i'm not sure how easy it is to pick up any book nowadays and know whats going on, but i did read ultimate fantastic four recently and it seemed to explain what was going on fairly well even tho it was in the middle of a storyline.
but on the other hand nothing ever changes much with the fantastic four wich is why i dont have much interest in them
be that as it may if this guy is that confused about whats going on then he should get some back issues.

[mrcassandranova]

The problem is Bendis's deaths never have any impact. I don't know who wrote Gambit's death but that was done "Bendis Style" too.

The only impact their deaths have had(aside from some cool Rogue stuff) were to make the book feel more empty.



What!?!? Did you completely forget about goth Storm ;)

[creaky]

He had nine issues.


True. But at first he was only supposed to be there short-term, so he didn't dare do anything that could have long-term effects. As soon as it was established that he WOULD be on for the long run, shaking things up is exactly what he set about to do. Hence why we now have crazy Nightcrawler, Cable with claws and a big death waiting to happen.

I'm not necessarily saying this is a good thing, but he is clearly intent on stirring things up.

[Mister Mets]

Well i'm not sure how easy it is to pick up any book nowadays and know whats going on, but i did read ultimate fantastic four recently and it seemed to explain what was going on fairly well even tho it was in the middle of a storyline.
but on the other hand nothing ever changes much with the fantastic four wich is why i dont have much interest in them
be that as it may if this guy is that confused about whats going on then he should get some back issues.
1. You shouldn;t have an obligation to pick up back issues to understand any issue of the Ultimate comics. There may be some subtle references that new readers won't get, but this won't hinder their understanding of the story.
2. I'm not sure if alextron had a hard time understanding what was going on in this issue, as he undertand that Nightcrawler was crazy, and Collosus was gay. He didn't like those decisions, or understand why the writers made them, but that has nothing to do with how comprehensible the story was.

[Enigmanaut]

That's "Goth Colossus." It's an easy mistake to make. Don't worry about it. :p

You're kidding... with that feather collar? Liberace wasn't that gay.

[curefreak]

1. You shouldn;t have an obligation to pick up back issues to understand any issue of the Ultimate comics. There may be some subtle references that new readers won't get, but this won't hinder their understanding of the story.
2. I'm not sure if alextron had a hard time understanding what was going on in this issue, as he undertand that Nightcrawler was crazy, and Collosus was gay. He didn't like those decisions, or understand why the writers made them, but that has nothing to do with how comprehensible the story was.

Well some people are still debating the "nightcrawler is loco" storyline, but how else is he going to figure out how nightcrawler and colossus changed so much unless he picks up some back issues?
this does reminds me of when i was reading about Bastion and not knowing who exactly he was i had to go back (and i mean all the way back)to figure it all out, for some reason because he was an android and he wore a lot of purple so i thought he might be Machine Man for some reason, even tho they dont look or act anything alike i wish i would have known about these forums or wikipedia back then it would have saved me a lot of headaches.
sorry for that random rant:o

[rwsmith]

Didn't Fury have Beast earmarked for joining the Ultimates? It would have been cool if that's why his death was faked - he was to be given a new costumed identity as an Ultimate after laying low for a few months(otherwise it would be a bit too suspicious).

Now see, that's a resurrection I could get behind actually. And it pays homage to the 616 too, in that Beast originally left the X-men for the Avengers. It could also pay homage by having the Ultimate version of the Changeling be the mutant who posed as Beast on the New Mutants team and was killed, much like he originally posed as Xavier in the 616 and was killed. To me those have been the best Ultimate X-men stories, the ones that pay homage to the past but are updated and different somehow.

I can definitely picture it being an emotional scene, where Storm freaks out upon finding out that Hank is alive and that he faked his own death because he wanted out of the X-men and he was afraid that Xavier would mentally coerce him into staying or something. And obviously Fury replaced him with the Changeling because his brilliant mind made him too valuable to be put at risk like that. Makes sense to me, and I normally don't like resurrections. But in this case I think it could be pulled off.

[Mister Mets]

Well some people are still debating the "nightcrawler is loco" storyline, but how else is he going to figure out how nightcrawler and colossus changed so much unless he picks up some back issues?
this does reminds me of when i was reading about Bastion and not knowing who exactly he was i had to go back (and i mean all the way back)to figure it all out, for some reason because he was an android and he wore a lot of purple so i thought he might be Machine Man for some reason, even tho they dont look or act anything alike i wish i would have known about these forums or wikipedia back then it would have saved me a lot of headaches.
sorry for that random rant:o
Never read the Basiton story, so I can't judge it.

My point is that it's un-necessary to inform a reader how characters have changed in order for them to understand the events of later issues. The big problem is when a reader has no idea what's going on after picking up an issue.

For example: Let's say there's a four page interlude with a shady character making a deal with another shady character, and there's nothing in the dialogue, or page long recap to suggest to someone who hasn't bought the previous issue just who these guys are. Retired X-Men? Allies of the X-men? Former villains? Current villains? Or intentionally shady antiheroes who straddle the hero/ villain line?
That type of scene would be fine if the dialogue/narration/recap reveals that a disguised Wolverine is meeting with Ultimate Sunfire, or that Mastermind (X-Men villain) is meeting with Toad (another X-men villain). The new reader would undertand what is going on, and that's all that's necessary.

Incidentally, if readers buy back issues/trades to figure out how some things happened, that's probably a good thing for Marvel, though. But they shouldn't have to buy previous trades to understand what's going on, especially with the Ultimate comics.

[justanotherfan89]

don't know if this had been said yet, but in wizard (newest issue) kirkman said marvel made him the official ultimate x-men writer for the "forseeable future", he said he has ideas planned out till issue 120 something, but i don't think he will last that long

[curefreak]

don't know if this had been said yet, but in wizard (newest issue) kirkman said marvel made him the official ultimate x-men writer for the "forseeable future", he said he has ideas planned out till issue 120 something, but i don't think he will last that long
Jeez those people aren't very bright, or maybe they couldn't find anyone else?

[wingsofdamnation]

mark millar should return to uxm as well as uff. i dont know what im going to do when he leaves the ultimates :(

[kel25]

don't know if this had been said yet, but in wizard (newest issue) kirkman said marvel made him the official ultimate x-men writer for the "forseeable future", he said he has ideas planned out till issue 120 something, but i don't think he will last that longUgh, I've been unhappy with Kirkman so far but at least he is getting better with the current arc. Maybe we'll get lucky and he will continue to improve.

[Hypestyle]

.. the #1 character i want to see brought into the team:

FIRESTAR!
Yes, I want to see Angelica Jones in all her microwave-radiation blasting glory!

..........
on a side note-- is Bryan Singer ever going to do his supposed year-long arc on the series, especially now that he's officially committed to doing Superman Returns 2?

[Omega Alpha]

on a side note-- is Bryan Singer ever going to do his supposed year-long arc on the series, especially now that he's officially committed to doing Superman Returns 2?

Probably not, and that's what i hope. I just don't care anymore, i just want Kirkman off the book.

[dreyga2000]

Personally I feel they should go back to whole futhering the mutnant agneada as peace keepers while dealing with a world that hates them... or showing emphasizing how the professor's school made a differnce in their lives...

Now it justs seems like a dysfuntional family with super powers

Ealier in the series they constantly they would refence about how they would go all across the planet doing whatever they could to help mutants... Scott and Strom did an Undercover case searching for mising mutants in Cali... Wolverine and Peter were hitting the hardboiled streets using their brand of justice to help people...



At some point this seemed to have dissapeared... I personally would like to see it back

P.S. Also adding Firestar wouldn't hurt either ;)

[Kage Kisaragi]

they should get a new artist someone who makes the characters look like able... i dont mean they have to be bubbly cute but currently they are all fugly and very unwelcoming, its almost like im just reading the words not really paying any attention to the art.

[Ruthless_Pryde]

My ideas to fix it would the UX< would be simple:

1.Quit writing for TPB's. most of the stuff that takes 6 issues really only needs three.

2. If you are going to write for the TPB,( I know they will) do what they do in the Ultimates, have a 12-14 issue story scripted and ploted from the begining and have it go from there.

3. Stop introducing characters to kill them, create a Yeoman Johnson for that.
( Yeoman Johnson is a joke from the old star Trek series. When they would go off ship, it would be 3 main characters and somebody that wasn't going to make it back from the mission, Yeoman Johnson.)

[Effect]

I think it's time for a road trip for the X-men (leave Kitty out so she can appear in USM). Maybe even add some of Emma's students but road trip all the same.

Weren't some of the best stories for the X-men told when they were away from the mansion in the 616?

[Canemacar]

3. Stop introducing characters to kill them, create a Yeoman Johnson for that.
( Yeoman Johnson is a joke from the old star Trek series. When they would go off ship, it would be 3 main characters and somebody that wasn't going to make it back from the mission, Yeoman Johnson.)

Also known as "Red Shirts" due to the the color of their uniform.

[geordiesteve]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

It's like we're sharing the same brain. Have you been reading my journal? :)

Too many characters, not enough consistency, cross pollination is getting out of hand. I like the feeling that they're in the same universe, but I'm not going to buy Ultimate X-men just to read about Kitty, I'll stick to Ultimate Spiderman for that.

Focus on a core group of people, dig into the ultimate versions of the characters and what makes them tick, and what makes them different/ identical to the original universe version.

[sephirothskiller]

1) I'm sick of "Ultimate Style" art. Bring a regular color pallete to the UXM!
2) Guess what Kirkman!? There's more to life than really stupid twists with little character development and a few characters going through drama so big a Soap couldn't handle it. God... X-Men: Evolution had more depth to it...
3) No more: First we introduce him, then him, off him, introduce another character, then two more characters in the next issue!!
4) Kitty is right, she doesn't belong on the team, make her go full bore in USM, its better over there anyways. (Bendis does a better teenager.)
5) As others have said, stop letting Bendis introduce all of your cool villains. Stop killing Rogue's character while raping Nightcrawler's.

6) Alot of people will disagree with me on this, but I think Xavier is just a retard in the series. Xavier and Storm and Wolverine should all leave and form the coalition of non-teenage mutants.

7) Speaking of Teenage Mutants, I would love to see some turtle in UXM... 8O

[rwsmith]

6) Xavier and Storm and Wolverine should all leave and form the coalition of non-teenage mutants.


Sounds great, actually. I would drop Ultimate X-men and buy that book instead. ;)

[the orikyx]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

SO WHATS YOUR PROBLEM WITH THE PHOENIX JERK:evilsmile

[Alan2099]

"The Phoenix Jerk" realy needs to be the name of some new character.

[Kid Kyoto]

Let Adam Warren & Frazer Irving revamp the Ultimate X-Men

Adam Warren should write and draw EVERY comic book.

But I think his strong showing with Gen13 shows how good he is with teen characters.

[Lanowar]

What I love about threads like these is it's not more

"What Should Be Done With Ultimate X-Men?"

But more

"I don't like Ultimate X-Men, I want to make it better for me."

It's alright, people need to realize the Ultimate Universe is not the Marvel Universe it's a place where Colossus can be gay where Nightcrawler has been mentalled scarred from Weapon X and acts the way he does, Dazzler is not a disco star but rock.

[Nick MB]

What I love about threads like these is it's not more

"What Should Be Done With Ultimate X-Men?"

But more

"I don't like Ultimate X-Men, I want to make it better for me."

It's alright, people need to realize the Ultimate Universe is not the Marvel Universe it's a place where Colossus can be gay where Nightcrawler has been mentalled scarred from Weapon X and acts the way he does, Dazzler is not a disco star but rock.

I don't think everyone here's saying "Turn the Ultimate X-Men into the usual X-Men", they're just saying "This comic isn't doing great, how can we make it better?" You have to admit, the Ultimate X-Men isn't a widely discussed comic anymore. It's kinda just become part of the landscape, a comic that comes out every month, the normal people buy it and not many people talk about it. I think the longest thread about UXM in months have been ones like these discussing its problems. Whereas USM and Ultimates still command lengthy discussions.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't think everyone here's saying "Turn the Ultimate X-Men into the usual X-Men", they're just saying "This comic isn't doing great, how can we make it better?" You have to admit, the Ultimate X-Men isn't a widely discussed comic anymore. It's kinda just become part of the landscape, a comic that comes out every month, the normal people buy it and not many people talk about it. I think the longest thread about UXM in months have been ones like these discussing its problems. Whereas USM and Ultimates still command lengthy discussions.

Yep. No one is complaining that the Ultimate X-men should be exactly like the 616 version, but saying that currently, this title is lacking quality. Since Kirkman became the writer (some would say even before that), the book went nothing but downhill.

[Broken Tusk]

1) Fire Kirkman

2) Fire Kirkman

3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue.

4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?

5) Fire Kirkman

6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too.

7) Fire Kirkman

8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!

9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones.

10) Fire Kirkman.

Co-signed! You beat me to it.

FIRE KIRKMAN!

[rwsmith]

Well, with Kirkman taking this book in a "bold, new direction" after the Cable arc, I'd love to see the X-men sporting some new costumes. The ones Alex Ross designed for Morrison's run (but which were never used) would be perfect IMO, and I've always wanted to see the X-men wearing them somewhere. They would especially fit if the X-men leave the mansion (which it appears they might be doing), and go more underground.

You can check them out here: X-men Millenial Visions (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/xmenxmillvisions.htm)

The only things I would change are Nightcrawler's priest collar (get rid of it, as he's not a priest) and Wolverine's long sleeves (they should be short so that his hairy arms show). The rest are perfection IMO. Naturally they'd have to design ones for Storm, Colossus and Rogue (and Kitty if she doesn't end up leaving this book) too.

[Nstar83]

I just started picking up this book an I enjoy it alot.I like the idea that these guys aren't the X-men of the 616, there more slefish more human an more realistic.There really more anti heros with alot of personal drama they have to over come to do anything heroic.Things i would want to see thou is a cut down on ultimaized characters poping up an introduced every issue, ultimate x-men doesn't need to repeat the 616 past mistake an bring in to many characters to its X-verse corner.

[Evil-Spidey]

1) Fire Kirkman.
yes


2) Fire Kirkman.
yes


3) Stop introducing 300 new characters or concepts every issue..
yes


4) Don't let Bendis introduce X-men characters in Ultimate Spider-Man; WTF Omega Red, Deadpool and the Reavers were doing there?.
no let him still do it


5) Fire Kirkman.
yes


6) Reduce the roster; let Kitty appear in Ult. Spidey only and drop Wolverine, whom should not be on a teenagers team. I could live without Storm too..
yes


7) Fire Kirkman.
yes


8) Get rid of the Phoenix, NOW!.
YES


9) Try to give the existing characters more depth and to make them more different from the 616 ones..
yes


10) Fire Kirkman.
yes

[Omega Alpha]

Well, with Kirkman taking this book in a "bold, new direction" after the Cable arc, I'd love to see the X-men sporting some new costumes. The ones Alex Ross designed for Morrison's run (but which were never used) would be perfect IMO, and I've always wanted to see the X-men wearing them somewhere. They would especially fit if the X-men leave the mansion (which it appears they might be doing), and go more underground.

You can check them out here: X-men Millenial Visions (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/xmenxmillvisions.htm)

The only things I would change are Nightcrawler's priest collar (get rid of it, as he's not a priest) and Wolverine's long sleeves (they should be short so that his hairy arms show). The rest are perfection IMO. Naturally they'd have to design ones for Storm, Colossus and Rogue (and Kitty if she doesn't end up leaving this book) too.

Wow, this is good stuff!:)

[Mister Mets]

I don't think everyone here's saying "Turn the Ultimate X-Men into the usual X-Men", they're just saying "This comic isn't doing great, how can we make it better?" You have to admit, the Ultimate X-Men isn't a widely discussed comic anymore. It's kinda just become part of the landscape, a comic that comes out every month, the normal people buy it and not many people talk about it. I think the longest thread about UXM in months have been ones like these discussing its problems. Whereas USM and Ultimates still command lengthy discussions.
The problem's worse than the Ultimate X-Men not just be discussed. Currently it's selling worse than the other three X-men books, which is a damn shame for a book which should be more accessible to new readers, and should sell AT LEAST as well as the other X-books (when Ultimate X-Men #1 debuted, it was the best-selling book that year.)

Marvel's losing a lot of money by basically ignoring the book, and waiting for Singer/ McNiven.

[rwsmith]

Wow, this is good stuff!:)

Glad you like it. I've always thought those costumes were kick-@$$. Marvel ought to use them somewhere at least. Why not Ultimate X-men?

And the masks/hoods on Cyclops and Wolverine could symbolize their moving to a more underground status IMO. Or, if Marvel wants them to remain maskless in the Ultimate Universe, just use the costume but ditch the mask. It really works either way.

Regardless, I love those uniforms.

[Zentarien]

What should be done..

1) Get over with the Dark Pheonix story, and either strip Jean of her Pheonix powers or kill her off completly.

2) Introduce an Apocalypse story Arc

3) Add one or two Original mutant to the team and removes some old ones

4) More of Emma Frost :P

5) Longer story Arcs ( At least 5-6 Books per Arc, with max 7-8 Books )

[kel25]

1) No more Phoenix!!! This only damaged 616 Jean in the long run. No need to repeat that colossal mistake in UXM. Killing her off would be bad because it would only be a matter of time before a writer decides to use the Phoenix Force to resurrect her. Instead I would have a story where it is said that the Phoenix Force is nothing more than a split personality and how she handles her powers that she is afraid of. She would come to terms with her abilities and that would be the end of the Phoenix Force.

2) Spoilers: Wolverine would revert to the more savage personality he had in earlier issues. After the death of Professor X we would learn that he was using Psychic suggestions to help keep Wolverine in line and convert him to the team. With his death Wolverine is revert to his more savage self but still remains with the X-Men because of the kinship he has made with them. End of Spoilers

3) Have Rogue leave the team for now. Have her come back later on with a lot more control over her powers. In other words, allow her to actually touch people without draining their powers. Make her more confident and drop a lot of the emo.

4) Bring back Angel into the fold. A lot of people complain about him being useless in a fight but I always felt that him having nondestructive powers really made him far more interesting than many other characters. Sadly he tends to get poorly used. He would now be bankrolling the team.

5) Have Kitty Pryde join the cast of USM for a while. I’m hoping Bendis doesn’t break off that relationship and I think she would be great in the supporting cast. Of course I would bring her back into UXM if they break up.

6) Ultimate Apocalypse would be a major story arc that would get nearly all of the Ultimate characters involved at one point or another. Although the majority of this story would be with the UXM. I would also use this as a chance to bring back a few X characters as horsemen of Apocalypse. Example: Dark Beast

7) A story arc with Magneto’s new brotherhood. Longshot would be a major player on this new team. I would also use Multiple Man, Pyro, and Dark Beast.

8) I’d also do a few story arcs that only delt with Emma’s group of mutants.

9) Team line up would be.
- Cyclops
- Jean Grey
- Angel
- Iceman
- Colossus
- Wolverine
- Rouge (Will rejoin up later.)
- Kitty Pryde (Will rejoin later.)

10) Almost forgot. No more cosmics, magic, and time travel.

[Zentarien]

Kel25, Timetravel at a minimum scale would be alright right?

I mean i agree if there is too much time travel , everything will get so confusing, but a touch of it could make the story interesting.


Apocalypse Arc can be told in UXM but make it like USM's Clone Saga ( In Clone saga we saw X-men, FF and Ultimates ). They can do it like this.

[Evil-Spidey]

1) Get over with the Dark Pheonix story, and either strip Jean of her Pheonix powers or kill her off completly.)
yes



2) Introduce an Apocalypse story Arc)
yes


3) Add one or two Original mutant to the team and removes some old ones)
yes


4) More of Emma Frost :P)
yes


5) Longer story Arcs ( At least 5-6 Books per Arc, with max 7-8 Books )
yes

[kel25]

Kel25, Timetravel at a minimum scale would be alright right?

I mean i agree if there is too much time travel , everything will get so confusing, but a touch of it could make the story interesting.

The problem is all of the simple time travel stories seem to be the same. Example: Characters go to the future and realize they all turn into dicks. Hence they end up fighting themselves, escape, and make a pact to be better.

When the stories tend to be more original they tend to get complex and add a lot of WTF to the continuity of title. In the end these types of stories tend to tick off the fans.

[Binks Drake]

The biggest problem in the ultimate universe is too many characters. And while I don’t approve of the way it’s coming about I do approve of the fact that he clearly recognizes this and is trying to narrow down at least our core group of X-men. (Even though he’s introducing side characters like crazy).

My second qualm with Kirkman is this…Magnetic North was absolutely my favorite arc I’ve ever read. Now I’m not the kind of person who is deeply embedded in 50 years of comic canon. I know bits of what’s happened in 616, but I’ve been deeply engrossed in the ultimate universe since day one. Essentially I’m Marvel’s target audience. A Younger person who is just getting into comics. And so let me say…The last seven pages of the entire magnetic north arc were some of the best stuff I’ve read ever!’

And then I started reading Kirkman’s “Date Night” arc and was angry because he practically disregarded all of it! Collossus is out, Rogue is back with her dead boyfriend’s powers, Magneto’s out of jail and working with longshot, Mystique is in jail, and emma clearly isn’t the most stable character in the universe! Then suddenly Prof. X still has the cat who I always assumed was actually mystique, Rogue seems completely unphased by her shiny new powers, as does everyone else, and no one except night crawler has reacted at all to colossus. WTF!!!!!

And so kirkman’s answer to the best finale of a run in the ultimate U was the completely screw it up with a disjointed confusing and overall badly written arc about a “night on the town.” Which I agree they need. It’s commented by scott at the end of BKV’s “The Most Dangerous Game” arc “First fenris now this, we could really use a win in our column” or something to that effect. The X-Men have sucked recently. Not just as a title as people. They’ve forgotton how to be the awesome people that Mark Miller introduced them to be. And that’s fine from a character development standpoint if you intend to remind them…but they’ve yet to do that. The series started off with a huge book tour, the X-men on news shows, jean with short hair etc…And now it’s just fallen to crap.

Okay when I started writing this I honestly didn’t mean for it to turn into a rant. The point of this post was that I saw this new ideas post and wanted to post my own. So after I read the Date Night, and Phoenix? Arcs I decided to screw kirkman and start outlining my own ideas for the series. And here’s the first few. Tell me what you think.

[Binks Drake]

66-69: Casino Royale
X-Team: Xavier, Scott, Jean, Bobby, Rogue, Kitty, Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Dazzler
Rogue is confused about her powers, and Gambit’s powers. Rogue isn’t quite sure how to deal. Confused she and Bobby make love and then She convices him to skip off to atlantic city for the weekend. Bobby is impressed by her skills, but everything in the casinos seem to remind her of gambit. So when their casino is held up by a man called Black Tom, Rogue breaks down instead of fighting alongside Bobby. Meanwhile back at the ranch A Similar plot as Date night Ensues when Xavier has a business meeting with Lilandra who wants to invest a great deal of money into the institute in exchange for testing out a comprehensive security system not yet on the market. Specifically designed to prevent any Super-Human Attacks in the present Time. Also Sabertooth attacks Wolvie and Storm just like in Kirkman’s stuff but at the end Wolverine goes to follow Sabertooth, needing answers from all the weapon X Crap he’s been through. He however won’t allow Storm to Follow him.

70-75: Enigma
X-Team: Xavier, Scott, Jean, Bobby, Rogue, Kitty, Storm, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Dazzler, Enigma
Colossus heads out to The Academy of Tomorrow for Homecoming, where colossus and angel meet a new shape shifting mutant named Enigma. Who’s a big fan of Xavier’s. He even got his book signed while they where on their world tour. Enigma unwisely spikes the punch but is caught by Emma, who essentially goes completely nuclear on him. She threatens to expel him from the institute and at one point actually slaps him. Afterwords it seems she doesn’t even remember doing it. But a mutant named Exodus Crashes the party claiming to be looking for Angel. They manage to fight him off but just in time. Emma looses it again but manages to regain herself. And Enigma Follows Collossus back to the institute. Meanwhile back home Dazzler wakes from her coma with Crawler by her side. The very first thing she does is get drunk and sing lots of bad karaoke. But Crawler and Dazzler’s “Romantic” evening is interrupted by Black Tom, known only to them as the guy who held up Bobby and Rogue’s hotel in Atlantic City. Black Tom announces to the crowd he’s “Looking for the one who calls himself a demon” (Obviously Nightcrawler). Dazzler and Crawler take on Black Tom and Ali breaks her arm. Pissed off that first she was in a coma and now she has a broken arm Dazzler Quit’s the institute and Kurt goes a’runnin’ after her.

76-81: Blood Brothers
X-Team: Xavier, Scott, Jean, Bobby, Rogue, Kitty, Storm, Colossus, Enigma
Moira MacTaggart makes he smash return to the series, showing up on the Charles’ Doorstep with her newlywed husband Shawn Cassidy by her side. Moira immediately sits Charles down and tells him that David is alive. Not quite sure how, the body of a teenage boy was dropped into her lab one day, barely recognizing him they ran tests and it was discovered he was David (Proteus). He woke up a few days later, now able to stay in at least his own body without burning it up completely. He’s on loads of medication and has even been able to walk around the lab without being confined, although he is confined on their trip over here. But this is not the reason they came. Shawn has heard many-a-news-report that his brother has been causing some mayhem, and that his brother’s name is Tom. Recognizing this immediately Xavier tries to contact Dazzler and Nightcrawler, but it seems they don’t want to be found. Bobby and Rogue tell them all about what happened in Atlantic City, and Banshee heads over there to find him. But while he’s gone Black Tom makes an attempt at Moira’s Life. Shawn returns to the mansion for a battle royale with his brother that ends with his escape! Meanwhile at the Academy of Tomorrow Havok, Sunspot, Cannonball, and Northstar have been spending a lot of Time on “Community Service Missions” and Emma is upset about it. Emma pays a visit to Magneto/Mystique in prison to help her get inside Charles’ head. Realizing that There needs to be a happy medium between training her students as warriors and training them without anyway to cope with a world full of superheroes. The arc ends on a Double cliffhanger. First when Emma gets inside “Erik’s” head and realizes it’s not who she thinks, Mystique Knocks her unconscious before she has time to tell anyone, and Emma is taken to a hospital. Then a girl with a healing factor similar to wolverine comes to the mansion with what’s left of Wolverine’s Body.

82-87: Dusk and Dawn
X-Team: Xavier, Scott, Jean, Bobby, Rogue, Kitty, Storm, Colossus, Enigma
First: The Story begins with the story of Ultimate X23. Wolverine was practically cut into tiny pieces when he was very drunk and attacked saber tooth. He’ll heal but it will take quite a while, he told her to get him here. The Girl herself calls herself X23 and explains that Sabertooth took a chunk of wolverine and her DNA was fused with his when they discovered she already had a healing factor as powerful as wolverine’s. She also has incredible Super-Strength. Meanwhile Emma wakes up and returns to the school. But her tantrums are getting worse and worse. She threatens to pluck angel’s wings. And the students are noticing. So when a student called Brian tries to get her some help she goes balistic and kills him. She flees to the Mansion and blurts out everything she knows to a room full of X-men. At the finale of this scene, it will also be a break between comics, Charles and Emma look at Enigma at the same time and say “Mystique?” Enigma transforms back into Mystique and is neutralized immediately. Emma goes into her head and discovers that it’s actually Mastermind in prison. Emma is going too far into Mystiques mind and nearly kills her from the stress but Northstar arrives in time, and manages to pull her away. Emma escapes… But of course Magneto knows by now that his story is about to be public…and he’ll do anything to keep it from reaching Nick Fury’s Ears. The Rest of the academy of tomorrow is boarded up in the mansion for the time being. But it becomes quite unsafe when all at once Magneto, Black Tom, Exodus, Emma, the Brotherhood, and Sabertooth attack all at once! Black Tom and Shawn must have one final brother brawl. I’m curious to see if anyone is still reading this so if you’ve actually gotton this far put an asterix in your next post. Exodus has yet to abandon his search for Angel. Emma has it in her head that she must kill every one of the students of the Academy of Tomorrow. The brotherhood creates general Chaos on the orders of Magneto ordered to silence anyone who may know he is not in prison. (Longshot is noticeably absent) And finally Sabertooth and Wolverine fight again. It’s the biggest fight in Ultimate History all of the grounds of the Xavier Institute! Magneto is torturing colossus but distracted his helmit is knocked off and he is taken down by Charles but in the confusion Magneto Murders Colossus. Emma finally falls to Alex’s blast, and is taken to prison in the Triskelion. Exodus and Black Tom, who seem to be working together both decide to take off, but not before breaking both of Banshee’s legs to get away. The brotherhood runs when magneto is taken down, and Sabertooth and Wolverine can’t ever really kill each other, Sabertooth essentially wins another battle and takes off.

Epilogue: The Mansion is in ruin. Students are dead. Everyone is injured in some way. Jean is still having phoenix visions and Lilandra reveals a bit of what she clearly knows about the phoenix myth indicating that it has it’s roots in ancient Egypt and Jean decides that she and scott are going to Egypt to find out as much as they possibly can. Wolverine and X23 take off again, this time headed off for the upcoming “Ultimate Wolverine” title. Moira And Banshee make the decision to stay in the states and return to Chicago with Emma’s Old students to reform the academy of tomorrow under new management. But at the very end of the arc…something you’d never expect after so much action. Longshot shows up at the door and says only one thing before he passes out… “It’s the apocalypse.”


So? What do you think? Still quite rough at times, but it happens. I know this is quite long. But I have so many ideas. If you guys like it I’ll continue.

Thanks…Thoughts?

Oh yeah and...FIRE KIRKMAN!

[Mister Mets]

*

Welcome to the board Binks Drake, and I hope you enjoy your stay.

I think you're a bit too harsh on Kirkman for not following up on events in Magnetic North. I wouldn't be surprised if Singer & co have claimed the next Magneto story for their own, although I really like the idea that the X-Men learn Magneto is active in the world, and he tries to have them killed.
I think BKV's run pretty much proved that Mystique was not Charles's cat (the "Come Mystique" cliffhanger I believe was simply meant to create a sense of unease during Millar's last issue. There were earlier references to Mystique (the cat) being named after a woman Charles dated.

The Ultimate comics are still meant to be more accessible to new readers, and aren't geared only to the people who have been reading since Issue 1.

There's a simple solution for Ultimate X-Men when the book has too many characters: Others leave for whatever reason, and for whatever period of time. You don't even have to reference them later (this isn't aimed at you, but your criticism that Kirkman's run had too many X-Men.)

As for your plots....
I like your use of Black Tom as a recurring villain, the idea of Wolverine following Sabertooth, and your introduction to Ultimate Banshee. Not sure if Dazzler's the type to sing bad kareokee, if Exodus is worth six issues, if there's a need for Proteus to return, and you may focus a bit too much on Emma. If I was going to create Ultimate X-23, I'd tie it into the Clone Saga going on in the Ultimate Spider-Man books right now. Your big "Dusk and Dawn" plot ends with Magneto in prison, and kind of undoes the brilliant escape BKV had for the character. A better solution might be Magneto escaping at the end of that story, so he's a recurring enemy for the X-Men (and potential ally for the upcoming Apocalypse epic especially since Apocalypse just attacked one of his allies.)

[Binks Drake]

Thanks, Black Tom, Exodus, and a villain who I intend to introduce soon, sort of become my terrible trio working for several other large villains, partly becasue i like these three villains, and partly to decrease the introductions of more characters in the future. Something the Ultimate U hasn't figured out how to do yet. The point of Dazzler singing bad kareokee was that she misses her band, she misses music in general, so she got really drunk and went for it. And the arc with Exodus really didn't focus on him, it was introducing Enigma, Spending some time at the Academy of Tomorrow, showing that emma isn't the most stable of people, and also the Dazzler/Crawler Story. And don't worry i've got some big plans for the inevitable apocalypse...

As far as my being too harsh on kirkman, it's not the magneto story, the way that final scene was set up "It's time for something new" it SHOULD be a long time before we see magneto again at least in a full-on villain capacity. But when we do he needs to get big ol' book all about his current evil plot whatever it may be. Actually i think it would be a really great idea if the next mags story was singer's arc. He handled magneto well in the movies i thought.

As far as the cat thing I just assumed he was lying to them. He's not the most credible of characters at the moment. He's quite shady in Ultimate U. "I'm beginning to think there's a lot of things he doesn't tell us" -Jean...Can't remember when she said it but i know she did. Plus i think we can safely assume that if that story is indeed true that the women he dated is the mystique we all know and love. "We all bought into Xaviers dreams until we got a look at the sick mind behind them"-Mystique sometime in Magnetic North arc.

And proteus originally had a role in "Dusk and Dawn" but was cut. So he'll just have to show up later... ;-) Also it was supposed to be the "excuse" for moira and banshee coming to the states, as the audiance doesn't learn that shawn is looking for his brother until later in the arc.

[Binks Drake]

I would have put this in the above post but it didn't all fit....

80-85: Dusk and Dawn- Slightly Retooled to Cut Magneto as it just didn't make sense with the next arc.
X-Team: Xavier, Scott, Jean, Bobby, Rogue, Kitty, Storm, Colossus, Enigma
First: The Story begins with the story of Ultimate X23. Wolverine was practically cut into tiny pieces when he was very drunk and attacked saber tooth. He’ll heal but it will take quite a while, he told her to get him here. The Girl calls herself X23 and explains that Sabertooth took a chunk of wolverine and her DNA was fused with his when the good folks at hydra discovered she already had a healing factor as powerful as wolverine’s. She also has incredible Super-Strength. Meanwhile Emma wakes up and returns to the school. But her tantrums are getting worse and worse. She threatens to pluck angel’s wings. And the students are noticing. Up to an including her killing a random student. She flees to the first place she can think of…the mansion and blurts out everything she knows about Magneto not being in prison to a room full of X-men. At the finale of this scene, it will also be a break between comics, Charles and Emma look at Enigma at the same time and say “Mystique?” Enigma transforms back into Mystique Mayhem ensues but Mystique Escapes. But during the battle Emma goes into her head and discovers that it’s actually Mastermind in prison. Emma is going too far into Mystiques mind and nearly kills her from the stress but Northstar arrives in time, and manages to pull her away. Emma escapes… But of course Magneto knows by now that his story is about to be public…and he’ll do anything to keep it from reaching Nick Fury’s Ears. The Rest of the academy of tomorrow is boarded up in the mansion for the time being. But it becomes quite unsafe when all at once Black Tom, Exodus, Emma, the Brotherhood, and Sabertooth attack the mansion! Black Tom and Shawn must have one final brother brawl. I’m curious to see if anyone is still reading this so if you’ve actually gotton this far put an asterix in your next post. Exodus has yet to abandon his search for Angel. Emma has it in her head that she must kill every one of the students of the Academy of Tomorrow because she’s just gone nuts. The brotherhood creates general Chaos on the orders of Magneto ordered to silence anyone who may know he is not in prison. (Longshot is noticeably absent) And finally Sabertooth and Wolverine fight again. It’s the biggest fight in Ultimate History all of the grounds of the Xavier Institute! Emma finally falls at the hands of Havok, and is taken to prison in the Triskelion. Exodus and Black Tom, who seem to be working together both decide to take off, but not before breaking both of Banshee’s legs to get away. The brotherhood’s minds are taken over by “Phoenix” and are all ordered to return to their HQ at once. and Sabertooth and Wolverine can’t ever really kill each other cause that’s just how it works. Sabertooth essentially wins another battle and takes off.

Epilogue: The Mansion is in ruin. Students are dead. Everyone is injured in some way. Jean is still having phoenix visions and Lilandra reveals a bit of what she clearly knows about the phoenix myth indicating that it has it’s roots in ancient Egypt and Jean decides that she and scott are going to Egypt to find out as much as they possibly can. Wolverine and X23 take off again in search of sabertooth, this time headed off for the upcoming “Ultimate Wolverine” title. Moira And Banshee make the decision to stay in the states and return to Chicago with Emma’s Old students to reform the academy of tomorrow under new management. But at the very end of the arc, Longshot shows up at the door and says only one thing before he passes out… “It’s the apocalypse.”

86-92: Endless Night
X-Team: Xavier, Storm, Colossus, Bobby, Rogue, Kitty
Professor X is shaken up. The Mansion has been destroyed and the grounds uprooted. The Team has dwindled, and this Longshot fellow hasn’t yet woken up. The X-men relocate the same underground facility seen in “Ultimate War,” after the public blames them for the death of several students of the academy of tomorrow during the big fight at the end of “Dusk and Dawn.” And normalcy resumes over at the Academy of Tomorrow, now run by Moira and Banshee. The Professor Gets word that Scott and Jean are returning and tells them where to go, but he is interrupted by a sudden summons for Magneto’s Court Date. Finally After Several Years the public trial of Erik Lensherr is to take place. But Charles knows that Magneto isn’t in Jail Anymore, it’s Jason. But he can’t really tell anyone on account of the fact that everyone thinks their murderous lunatics…again… Charles Delves into Longshot’s head and discovers that Erik is basing out of Egypt for the time being. Xavier and Storm take the jet to Egypt to pay a visit to Magneto. Several familiar faces are present. Blob, Toad, Hard-Drive, Vanisher, Juggernaut, Mystique and others. As well as some folks that look suspiciously like Wolfsbane and Bishop. Coughity Cough Cough. Magneto, who has completely distanced himself from his in-jail friend Mastermind had no clue the trial was so close. Xavier and Storm return to their underground. The Rest of the arc follows Magneto doing day to day things at his base. Featuring several flashbacks providing the story of Magneto’s Past. Revealing he was in-fact in the holocaust, as well as several situations with Xavier. Particular time is reflected on what he remembers from when he was living in queens with no memory. At the end of the arc we catch up with the trial. Bolivar trask testifys against him, and announces that as the newly elected speaker of the house he plans to introduce a new Mutant Registraion Act. The arc finales when Magneto himself shows up at his own trial and confesses to everything on record in front of a jury, and is sentenced to death.

93-100: Civil War
The Announcement of the Mutant Registration act at Magneto’s trial is causing quite a hullabaloo in the Ultimate Universe. But the flame is lit when Rogue, Havoc, and Polaris announce that they are pro-registration at a press conference. Cyclops and Jean return to find the mutant community ripped in half. And many other superheroes are getting into the mix. And some old friends won’t exactly be nonvocal in their opinions regarding The MRA.
Pro-Registration
Rogue, Havoc, Polaris- These three are essentially the forerunners of pro-registration. They announce during a press conference that they believe that registration will be the first step to reducing violence in the mutant community. That people fear mutants because they don’t understand them, and if they are registered with the government people will hopefully start to ease up on mutants.
Nightcrawler, Dazzler- They return together, still very much in love, on the pro-side. Kurt has been persecuted all his life for the way he looks and believes that if the world knew who he was that it would stop. Dazzler really just wants the publicity for her newly reformed band and decides to side with kurt.
Blob, Wolfsbane- Joining together on the pro-side from the brotherhood of mutants, they speak up, again for being persecuted.
Johnny and Sue- UFF- Johnny is an arrogant kid, who just thinks the mutants need to be kept in line. Sue believes that the gov. needs to start policing superheroes.
Iron-Man, Black Widow- Really just here based on their positions in the huge marvel 616 verse Civil war event.
Cannonball- Not a very active character in this title but it is known he is pro.
Anti-Registration
Storm, Bobby, Scott, Jean, Angel, Northstar, Sunspot, Xavier- The X-Men mostly choose this side. As they feel their freedom is being stripped away.
Kitty, Spider-Man- The public doesn’t know if peter is a mutant or not. And so this issue effects him also. Kitty and Spidey share a side together in order to protect friends and family of mutants.
Reed and Ben- UFF- Ben obviously has to take a lot of grief for the way he looks and sympathizes with Mutants. Reed sides with his good friend.
Captain America, Wasp- Put here for the same reason as tony above, based on positions in Marvels current CIVIL WAR event. Also to throw in more characters from the Ultimates.

But while the sides feud…what’s the brotherhood doing? The eight-issue arc ends with a bang when the rest of the brotherhood bombs the white-house and the triskelion in protest of the act. A battle naturally ensues for several comics worth of fighting, ultimately the X-Men have to learn to band together again, dispite differing opinions and get the brotherhood away from the White House and the Triskelion. The Arc ends nicely when Scott and Rogue are asked to come onto Larry King to talk about it. The X-Men are clear of the murder charges after Magneto confessed at the trial. But there’s still a cliffhanger. Several important People were killed during the attacks on the White House and Triskelion, including speaker of the house Bolivar trask, The President, and many others. causing the death of trask’s Mutant Registration Act. And the arc winds down when Secretary of State Irene Adler is sworn in as new president of the United States of America….

Regular X-men after "Civil War"- Prof, Scott, Jean, Storm, Colossus, Bobby, Rogue.

This is all i have for the moment. My goal essentially was to get rid of some characters, to give some a last reprise in Civil war. Tell Magneto's Background story which has never really been addressed in UXM, especially when he was living without powers, If you recall he bought tickets to charle's lecture during that time, my favorite panel in Mark Miller's UXM run was charles hugging erik saying "Thank you"

[carabas]

Doing the whole Mutant Registration Act barely months after civil War finally winds down sounds like a surefire way to get people to drop the book in my opinion.

Also, you are apparently completely unfamiliar with the Ultimate Sue and Johnny Storm.