Does Spider Girl and Avengers Next out Ultimate the Ultimate books?

[BadAssMofo]

I just finished reading some of these and isn't this the Ultimate stories we wanted? You have a female Spider Man. You have different versions of Juggernaut, Ant Man, Iron Man. This universe is all screwed up. Shouldn't this have been the 'Ultimate' universe?

[Alan2099]

I find the MC2 books much better written and easier to get into.

[TassleTREX]

Meh. I've given Spider-Girl 5 or 6 chances over the past few years and it's never really done anything for me. It's not terrible but it always feels like fluff to me. It's feels less like "The Marvel Universe 15 Years From Now" and more like "The Marvel Universe If Nothing Was Ever Serious". The Ultimate Universe truly feels like an updated, kind of cooler Marvel universe and it's got a ton more depth than the MC2 universe even though it started a few years later.

[Magneto Rocks]

I'm of the opinion the Ultimate books are superior in pretty much every way.

[Effect]

It all depends on what you are looking for I guess. I still don't get why the MC2 univese really didn't hit it off while the Ultimate universe did?

I guess it could be a situation where readers don't want to read about anything other then the same old thing. So rehashes of the same characters over and over again are accepted but decendents of said characters aren't given the same chance. Even if it's made clear this is a possible future. A shame really.

[gorthon616]

It all depends on what you are looking for I guess. I still don't get why the MC2 univese really didn't hit it off while the Ultimate universe did?

I think it has alot to do with the art. It's just a little too old-school to hit off with the masses. That would definitely boost the sales imo. I think it would hit off as much as the Ultimates (or has the potential too) otherwise. And it's not like every Ultimate title is golden anymore (or necessarily every was).

[TassleTREX]

You toss Mike Turner onto Spider-Girl, I doubt the longtime fans would be happy but I guarantee you get a successful book. He'd make Mayday into a sex symbol.

[Mister Mets]

double-post

sorry

[Mister Mets]

I think the Ultimate Universe is meant to have core versions of characters, rather than radically different versions.

And Ultimate stories are probably better on average than MC2 stories.
The best MC2 stories are weaker than the best (Ultimates, Ultimates 2, Ultimate X-Men #1-4, Ultimate Spider-Man #1-13/ 29-32) Ultimate Stories.

The Ultimate books also outsell the MC2 books.

[Effect]

You toss Mike Turner onto Spider-Girl, I doubt the longtime fans would be happy but I guarantee you get a successful book. He'd make Mayday into a sex symbol.

That most certainly wouldn't be a good thing and a major slap in the face of all of those that enjoy and stuck with the book over the years. Not to mention the fans hat helped save it from being canceled the few times it was on the edge. I like to think that Marvel wouldn't cross that line.

[Sean Whitmore]

We're talking about apples and oranges here. One line features alternate takes on the 616 heroes, and the other line features the descendants (biological and spiritual) of the 616 heroes. It's like comparing Batman the Animated Series and Batman Beyond.


SEAN

[The Foreigner]

I just finished reading some of these and isn't this the Ultimate stories we wanted? You have a female Spider Man. You have different versions of Juggernaut, Ant Man, Iron Man. This universe is all screwed up. Shouldn't this have been the 'Ultimate' universe?

The intent of the Ultimate Universe is the exact opposite of the MC2 universe. I don't understand your point.

[BadAssMofo]

The Ultimate Universe truly feels like an updated, kind of cooler Marvel universe and it's got a ton more depth than the MC2 universe .


This is true.

[BadAssMofo]

The intent of the Ultimate Universe is the exact opposite of the MC2 universe. I don't understand your point.

Read the words slowly. You'll get it eventually. :cool:

[Alan2099]

The Ultimate Universe truly feels like an updated, kind of cooler Marvel universe and it's got a ton more depth than the MC2 universe .
Updated? yeah.
Cooler? Your opinnion, not mine.
More depth? Sorry. I don't se it it.

[The Foreigner]

Read the words slowly. You'll get it eventually. :cool:

Okay, let's take another look.


I just finished reading some of these and isn't this the Ultimate stories we wanted?

The intent of the Ultimate Universe was to start fresh and re-visit the iconic versions of classic Marvel characters in a modern setting. The MC2 universe pushes the characters logically into the future where they have married, had children, died, etc.

The concepts are completely opposite in what they are trying to accomplish, so the answer is no; these aren't the Ultimate stories "we" wanted, because they are nothing like what the Ultimate stories are for.



You have a female Spider Man. You have different versions of Juggernaut, Ant Man, Iron Man. This universe is all screwed up.

Which is why it is not at all similar to the Ultimate Universe, where the characters are taken back to their most iconic forms.


Shouldn't this have been the 'Ultimate' universe?

No.

So, after reading "the words slowly" like you suggested, I realize that you have no idea what you are talking about, and that the point you were trying to make really makes no sense at all. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Black Atom]

As others have said, the intent of the Ultimate Line was to be a postmodern reimagining of the current Marvel Universe (which is quickly becoming obsolete, since Marvel's headed in that direction anyway). MC2 is just stories
about the possible future of the MU, which are told rather traditionally.

[Arilou]

They are different things.

My main reason to like Spider-Girl is that A) The supporting cast shows up more or less continouslu.

B) DeFalco gets more done in a single issue than Bendis does in three. Sorry Bendis, but you're just *slow*

[phantom1592]

It all depends on what you are looking for I guess. I still don't get why the MC2 univese really didn't hit it off while the Ultimate universe did?



These were my reasons.

1) I hate "future" stories. They essentially tell you what happened to the present characters. Anything that happens in the present, either has to have an impact on the future or else negate the idea that it IS the future. For example: you can't kill MJ in the present because shes still alive in the future.

I know they are alternate/possible/maybe futures, but the whole IDEA is to suspend disbelief enough to believe that IS the future Spiderman.

2) They tend to be at least a little Depressing. All the heroes we grew up with are either dead, crippled or retired. I KNOW they have been replaced and the dream lives on... but The thought that Daredevil was shot, and Spiderman lost his leg etc, just bums me out.

3) I didn't really like the characters that much. Thunderstrike II had potential, but I don't remember him ever using the mace. J2?!? What kind of stupid name is that??

on the plus side at least it FELT like a real world. The future wasn't all Cyberpunk with goofy new words and hightech headgear. :rolleyes:

As for old-school stories and art. I LOVE that. It makes me miss the 90's. Some of my favorite books were written then.


:eek:Did I just say that?!? :o

[nosferUATU]

Spider-Girl is in my opinion, the most boring, blandest book Marvel is publising today.

I tried repeatedly to get into it, I did try, but every issue I read left me cold with its sheer dullness.
From the writing to the art, everything was just colorless, bland.

[Mister Mets]

As others have said, the intent of the Ultimate Line was to be a postmodern reimagining of the current Marvel Universe (which is quickly becoming obsolete, since Marvel's headed in that direction anyway). MC2 is just stories
about the possible future of the MU, which are told rather traditionally.
Did anyone else being postmodernism into the debate?

I see the Ultimate Universe as having a different direction from the Postmodern comics such as Watchmen. The heroes are flawed, and mess up, but still perform acts of tremendous courage.


It all depends on what you are looking for I guess. I still don't get why the MC2 univese really didn't hit it off while the Ultimate universe did?

I guess it could be a situation where readers don't want to read about anything other then the same old thing. So rehashes of the same characters over and over again are accepted but decendents of said characters aren't given the same chance. Even if it's made clear this is a possible future. A shame really.

I don't think it's a problem of the Ultimate Universe simply being the same old thing over and over, as MC2 is equally derivative.

It's also the case of more popular creators (Bendis, Millar, The Kubert brothers, Hitch, Bagley, Land, etc....) working on the Ultimate books, and creating one of the most successful franchises in decades.

[Young Avenger]

I find the MC2 universe uninteresting. I just can't get into it. I read Last Planet Standing and I hated it. Also, all the MC2 books are written by the same guy.

[Jeff-E]

MC2 was just a really fun series. Personally I'm a big fan of A next and would love to see the series restarted. The title was very 90's though (even though it came out in early 2000's) it was very lighthearted and very action oriented, the villains had little depth but with the way the book was written it worked. The story of the last days of the Avengers was great and if you havent read it I suggest you do.
Also I do believe that when MC2 came out it was more kid friendly(like Marvel Age books now) so alot of people didn't care for the titles as it was too "childish". But with guys like me, personally I like to read something that doesn't take itself too seriously, I'm something of a big kid and as a big kid the books fit me great.

[becominAfanAgain]

We're talking about apples and oranges here. One line features alternate takes on the 616 heroes, and the other line features the descendants (biological and spiritual) of the 616 heroes. It's like comparing Batman the Animated Series and Batman Beyond.


SEAN

I am 100 percent behind you on that statement. TRUE....

Personally I like the MC2 universe not to knock the Ultimate universe because it’s what keeping comics alive for the younger fan. It’s nice to see what could happen in the future as family men etc.

[Black Atom]

Did anyone else being postmodernism into the debate?

I see the Ultimate Universe as having a different direction from the Postmodern comics such as Watchmen. The heroes are flawed, and mess up, but still perform acts of tremendous courage.


When the Ultimate Line first started up, it didn't strike me that way, but later books like The Ultimates and Hulk, for example, seemed pretty postmodern in inspiration.

[Chris S.]

Alright someone might have said this, but this is a horrible question. The fact of the matter is that the MC2 universes all but burnt out except Spider-girl. The UU, however, has sustained for awhile now. There is a huge difference in not only the stories, but the general idea of the whole thing. MC2 takes place in the future while UU is set in the present time.

You are attempting to compare apples and oranges here, sorry no offense. Yes maybe the MC2 stories are fun and engaging, but the UU has established its own universe that stands on its own. I wouldn't say one is better then the other, just very different.

[Chris S.]

As others have said, the intent of the Ultimate Line was to be a postmodern reimagining of the current Marvel Universe (which is quickly becoming obsolete, since Marvel's headed in that direction anyway). MC2 is just stories
about the possible future of the MU, which are told rather traditionally.
Man I hate to tell you but I think comics have always been postmodern. I mean the idea of Spider-man in its conception was extremily postmodern.

[jmc247]

Spider-Girl is in my opinion, the most boring, blandest book Marvel is publising today.



I totally agree with that.

[BeastieRunner]

Here's my opinion:

MC2 & UU > MU

Yes, I believe that is pretty true. At least to me. :D

[Nick MB]

I agree with The Foreigner, the original post here is awful English and doesn't really make sense.

Anyway, comparing the MC2 Universe and the Ultimate Universe is obviously hard. For starters, the MC2 is an extension of the 616 and is still trying to make things work in continuity up to a point. The Ultimate Universe is a hard revamp of everything and allows the writers a lot more freedom. Also, while I'm reluctant to use words like "cooler", it is true that the Ultimate stories pride themselves on using art and writing styles that reflect modern values, whereas MC2, stylistically, harkens back to 80s Spidey comcs.

I may be biased, I dropped Spider-Girl with the end of the previous series, haven't bothered picking up the Amazing relaunch, whereas Ultimate Spidey is one of my favourite Spider-Man comics ever published. Spider-Girl was never actively awful, but I never looked forward to reading it, I just read it, thought "Hmm, that was fun I suppose," then read something else, and I like to be more interested in my stuff. If Amazing Spider-Girl comes out in digests, I might get them, because I can probably justify spending that little mony on them.