The Stylistic Genealogy Game

[Aaron Kashtan]

I believe that all comic artists are connected, at some level, in a common web of stylistic influence and evolution. It should be possible to trace any two cartoonists back to a common stylistic ancestor, though it might be rather difficult. This thread is to test that theory.

Let's start out with an easy one: How is Bill Watterson related to Jeff Smith?

[scratchie]

This is a great idea, although as a relative novice, I'd be more interested in seeing just the basic stylistic "family tree", e.g. the "Neal Adams/Mike Grell" group, etc. I recognize different styles of cartooning but I don't generally know who originated certain styles or what would be considered the specific "stylistic trademarks" of particular trailblazers.

[MDG]

Let's start out with an easy one: How is Bill Watterson related to Jeff Smith?

Walt Kelly? (Do I understand the question?)

[telerites]

I was thinking of Carl Barks?

[Cei-U!]

Of the super-hero/adventure artists of the Golden and Silver Ages, pretty much all of them can be traced back to one of five major influences: Foster, Raymond, Canniff, Crane and Gould. Those who weren't directly influenced by those giants of American newspaper strips were influenced by *their* influences: the great illustrators of the first half of the 20th Century (Pyle, Wyeth, Gibson, Dorne, et al) and the Renaissance masters (John Buscema cited Michelangelo as his #1 influence).

Cei-U!
I summon the stylistic roots!

[dan bailey]

This has something to do with Kevin Bacon, doesn't it?

[Aaron Kashtan]

This has something to do with Kevin Bacon, doesn't it?

This is a bit like the Six Degrees of Archie Goodwin game, but with connections based on common stylistic influence, not on having worked on the same series, if that makes sense.

Walt Kelly was the common connection that I was thinking of, but Carl Barks works too. To make it a bit more difficult, how about Neal Adams and Kim Deitch?

[Scott Shaw!]

Kim Deitch is influenced by his father, Gene Deitch, who was (among other things) an animation director for Terrytoons.

Neal Adams has admitted a great fondness for Charlton's Atomic Mouse, a character that's a blatant rip-off of Terrytoons' Mighty Mouse.

Therefore, the answer is "Terrytoons cartoons".

Aloha,

Scott!

[benday-dot]

Of the super-hero/adventure artists of the Golden and Silver Ages, pretty much all of them can be traced back to one of five major influences: Foster, Raymond, Canniff, Crane and Gould. Those who weren't directly influenced by those giants of American newspaper strips were influenced by *their* influences: the great illustrators of the first half of the 20th Century (Pyle, Wyeth, Gibson, Dorne, et al) and the Renaissance masters (John Buscema cited Michelangelo as his #1 influence).

Cei-U!
I summon the stylistic roots!

Cool topic Sir Tim.

This is easy... Barry Windsor Smith from Dante Gabriel Rosetti. But then sometimes I look at Winsor Mckay, and his art nouveau style, also aesthetically linked to Rosetti's pre-raphaelites, and I think...

maybe Little Nemo leads to Conan the Barbarian. Yikes!!

[Aaron Kashtan]

Cool topic Sir Tim.

This is easy... Barry Windsor Smith from Dante Gabriel Rosetti. But then sometimes I look at Winsor Mckay, and his art nouveau style, also aesthetically linked to Rosetti's pre-raphaelites, and I think...

maybe Little Nemo leads to Conan the Barbarian. Yikes!!

Now that is a surprising and unexpected result.

Does anyone else want to suggest any more stylistic genealogy challenges? I should point out that there is no single "correct" solution to these tasks; there could be any number of ways of connecting one artist to another.

[Hintermann]

I was thinking of Carl Barks?

Barks was an 'original' artist but a lot of contemporary Disney artists tend to emulate his style (or at least try to) consciously or otherwise. Pat Block & 'Vicar' are examples but others do it too to lesser extents. Although Don Rosa considers himself as a successor to Barks, there are subtle differences in Rosa's style that set him apart from everyone else.

[Aaron Kashtan]

Barks was an 'original' artist but a lot of contemporary Disney artists tend to emulate his style (or at least try to) consciously or otherwise. Pat Block & 'Vicar' are examples but others do it too to lesser extents. Although Don Rosa considers himself as a successor to Barks, there are subtle differences in Rosa's style that set him apart from everyone else.

I wonder if those differences are the result of some other influences besides Barks?

[Scott Shaw!]

Carl Barks often cited Hal Foster's PRINCE VALIANT as a major influence on his cartooning.

So what about that Deitch/Adams question, folks?

Aloha,

Scott!

[benday-dot]

I'll hold off on unravelling the Deitch/Adams thread, because I am frankly clueless. However, I have thought about the Kevin Bacon, Six Degrees of Separation theory... that is, every person can be connected within six degrees of another. I was just putting it to the test. I've posted below images of two comic characters that not only have happened to cross my path the last few days, but I rank among my favs for as long as I've been into comic books. They are very different, but thinking (perhaps a bit much on it!) it seems there is at least one thread than binds them. This is pretty tough. I really just randomly took two characters on my mind and tried to link them... huge kudos to anyone who can unravel it...

The thread I've woven isn't exactly stylistic, as far as I can tell, but more character based, so Sir Tim if this wasn't at all what you've had in mind feel free to move my little mind-bender.

http://www.samcci.comics.org/atlas/sub-mariner/gasubm32.jpg

http://www.lancele.com/MadMag/MadAdventuresCaptainKlutz.jpg

[benday-dot]

I'll hold off on unravelling the Deitch/Adams thread, because I am frankly clueless. However, I have thought about the Kevin Bacon, Six Degrees of Separation theory... that is, every person can be connected within six degrees of another. I was just putting it to the test. I've posted below images of two comic characters that not only have happened to cross my path the last few days, but I rank among my favs for as long as I've been into comic books. They are very different, but thinking (perhaps a bit much on it!) it seems there is at least one thread than binds them. This is pretty tough. I really just randomly took two characters on my mind and tried to link them... huge kudos to anyone who can unravel it...

The thread I've woven isn't exactly stylistic, as far as I can tell, but more character based, so Sir Tim if this wasn't at all what you've had in mind feel free to move my little mind-bender.

http://www.samcci.comics.org/atlas/sub-mariner/gasubm32.jpg

http://www.lancele.com/MadMag/MadAdventuresCaptainKlutz.jpg

I suspect you'd have to be Reed Richards to connect the dots between between the two images. Or have a lot of time and/or Google at your disposal. I experimented with the notion that everyone is said to be separated within six degrees of everyone else. I selected at random 2 seemingly disparate comic books and tried to see if I could join them by one seamless thread. It took some time, but here is now I joined these two comic books together.

1. The Sub-Mariner was a creation of Bill Everett
2. Bill Everett was also a principal contributor to the Marvel character Venus
3. Venus was, in her return to the Marvel Universe, made a member of first the 1950's Avengers from the What If one-shot of the 70's and more recently of the Agents of Atlas.
4. One of her partners in these books is Jimmy Woo
5. Jimmy Woo was introduced by Al Feldstein in his Yellowclaw series for 1950's Atlas Comics.
6. Al Feldstein after he moved to Mad magazine, hired Don Martin, who created...

the great Captain Klutz.

So there you have it Subby and Captain Klutz separated by six degrees.

[Scott Shaw!]

To make it a bit more difficult, how about Neal Adams and Kim Deitch?

C'mon, Aaron, what's the stylistic connection between Adams and Deitch? Or did I already nail it?

Aloha,

Scott!

[Aaron Kashtan]

C'mon, Aaron, what's the stylistic connection between Adams and Deitch? Or did I already nail it?

Aloha,

Scott!

I didn't actually have a single answer in mind. The one you came up with is fine by me.

[Cei-U!]

One influence on the Golden/Silver Age artists that generally goes undercredited is the faculty of New York's High School of Art and Design (do I have that name right?) where so many of them seem to have attended classes.

Cei-U!
I summon the learnin'!