Fat Joe says rap fans aren't loyal.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

an excerpt from his Safe to Say Part 1 Inteview by Allhiphop than can be found here: http://www.allhiphop.com/features/?ID=1583


AllHipHop.com: Who are some of the young MCs that you feel have a potential for a career that’s lasted as long as you?

Fat Joe: It’s just really hard, I don’t think you truly understand that the guy they criticize and the guy that they really don’t think is that dope [has] been here for 13 years. I got multiple Number One hits in the country, I rock with whoever you need to rock with. I’m the only rapper in the world that’s ever got better and better every album and I know what it takes. It’s a very rare and special breed, you gotta have passion for this and love the game. A lot of times in my career I could have just gave up and quit. Some of my best friends tell me “Yo it’s over, it is what it is. You made some money, let’s move on.” I’m looking at them like they smoke crack or something, you crazy I’m here. I’m a do what I gotta do. Mato told me I should retire, this is my right hand man. I wrote “My Lifestyle” that night and it was the craziest song on the planet Earth in the streets. I never listened and I’m still here. It makes me stand up, whenever you count Joe out and put his back to the wall I come out swinging harder than ever.

It would sound real disrespectful [but] I could tell you over a thousand people who came in when I came in and they’re not here. So in order to stick around like Fat Joe, I cant tell you a MC that I heard spit 16 bars that’s gonna be here 13 years later. I hear these n***as they get on a feature of a song, they spit 16 bars and the next thing I know they’re King of New York. Please, where’s the multiple classic albums, hit records or whatever the case may be? You want me to tell you that one of these new n***as is gonna be the next, I can’t tell you - and honestly I don’t see it. They gotta give me classic albums, s**t we never heard before, new vibes and everything in order for me to tell you “Yo, this n***as gonna be here 15 years later.”

It’s too hard, some of the greatest in the game [like] Kool G Rap ain’t relevant today. Pun studied Kool G Rap and Pun is probably one of the nicest lyricists ever. Your Buckshot Shorty’s and them, they’re still doing their grind and they’re on the underground level, but I could tell you about guys who were on fire flame broiling and ain’t here right now. I could tell you about guys who sold 20 million records who’s trying to come back but ain’t as relevant. It’s almost impossible, somebody like LL Cool J is about the only one who got that longevity. Hip-Hop music, our fans if you’re real fans and you love Chamillionaire right now love him 10 and 15 years from now. If you really love Bone Thugs N Harmony, keep supporting them and whoever you really love. The problem we got in Hip-Hop music is everything is new. So when they get the new gimmick, the new guy who got shot up or just came out of jail they run with it. Onyx sold four million records, I remember when Onyx couldn’t perform. It was ram packed, the whole block n***as would start riots. Go help Sticky Fingaz right now, go buy his new record. Hip-Hop is very disloyal to the pioneers that made it happen, so I urge you to keep supporting them.

i have always said this,rap has way too many casual fans now.i mean WTF happened to the core fan base??,i mean where are my fellow generation X'ers?,and my early gen-Y people? sure we're older with other responsibilities but i'm sure we're still capable of buying music.

[Xero Kaiser]

yeah, it seems like music in general is filled with people who just come and go. Considering that it's apparently difficult for a rapper who isn't the usual studio-gangsta to get supported, I guess it's no surprise that rap's filled with similar looking/sounding guys who only last as long as their gimmicks do

[blackdragon6]

i *THINK* rap's core audience doesn't buy mainstream rap music anymore (atleast not in the numbers they use to).wich is evident by the fact that they don't drive the genre anymore.kinda like how black people abandoned rock,i think this is whats happening to mainstream rap music right now.despite the fact its mostly done by blacks.the new fans that replaced the old die hard fans don't seem to be interested in hip-hop to the same degree of the other fans.

[KenK]

i *THINK* rap's core audience doesn't buy mainstream rap music anymore (atleast not in the numbers they use to).wich is evident by the fact that they don't drive the genre anymore.kinda like how black people abandoned rock,i think this is whats happening to mainstream rap music right now.despite the fact its mostly done by blacks.the new fans that replaced the old die hard fans don't seem to be interested in hip-hop to the same degree of the other fans.

I think the difference between blacks abandonning rap now and blacks abandonning rock back in the day is that back then, we didn't really have much of a choice. The flooding of the market with white rock artists or white artists doing bland covers of black rock songs was much more prominent than having one or two white rap artists come along every couple of years captivating people's attention. Furthermore, rock music as a black-dominated music scene never got the chance to dillute the way rap has today. I don't know if it was a thread on this board, but I commented on the difference between rappers today and those from back in the day, just on the level of showmanship. What do you bring to a live performance to get a crowd's attention. The people who grew up on rap in the 80s and early 90s do not want to see a rapper come onto the stage with a posse that does nothing but recite the lyrics the rapper's rapping over a CD playing that in a lot of instances will be playing the vocal track as well as the instrumental. There are just a lot of guys who don't put any real effort. They just think the words have to rhyme and they're master lyricists.

And as for Fat Joe, he REALLY needs to stop acting like he didn't benefit from Big Pun dying, 'cause before then, he was just "that other fat rapper".

[Comic_Mobsta]

rock music as a black-dominated music scene never got the chance to dillute the way rap has today. .This is true actually,Alot of black fans (i mean lets be honest here) turned against mainstrream rap because of how homogenised(sp?) and diluted it became.The days of rappers like NWA,PE,and ATCQ dominating the mainstream are over.

[KenK]

Back to showmanship, you had guys like Heavy D and Big Daddy Kane (his performance at last year's VH1 Hip Hop Honors is becoming the stuff of legend) who didn't just rhyme, they DANCED! None of this "lean back" s**t! For all 50 Cent's workin' out, do you see him doing any of that stuff? No, he just sways a little bit as he leisurely walks back and forth across the stage. Not that I want to bring back the days of dudes in bright colored suits dancing, but just to make a point of how boring it can be to see rappers perform these days. They don't believe in giving you anything to make the expenditure of time and money worth it.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

the new fans that replaced the old die hard fans don't seem to be interested in hip-hop to the same degree of the other fans. our generation (the X/Y cusp) was more in love with hip-hop as a culture and a genre.having said that i belive alot of our generation never properly passed on our love of certain artists to out younger siblings (though i have).there for artists from the golden age don't have a foundation.mostly because we grew up and moved on without training hip-hop aprentices..........awkward analogy but work with me people.like for example my mom,dad,and uncle always played old school soul albums wich is why i apreciated them when i was in my teens.even though my generation had moved on to "new jack swing" i would still listen to curtis mayfeild,etta james,marvin gaye etc etc.nobody really did that for hip hope.so its kinda our fault in addition with the media.

[Xero Kaiser]

And as for Fat Joe, he REALLY needs to stop acting like he didn't benefit from Big Pun dying, 'cause before then, he was just "that other fat rapper".

I LOL'ed
--

[Leslie Lee III]

Go outside. Talk to average kids. You'll notice they listen to popular crap mostly. No, it's not crap because it's popular, but a lot is crap. It's not specific to rap, rock is even worse off.

But it's okay. You have the internet and no excuse to listen to popular crap. Turn off the radio and quit worrying so much about what the other man is doing with their music dollars.

[Slade.]

Or maybe it's just the fact that Fat Joe is WACK AS FUCK, and been wack ever since he lost his ghostwriter when Pun died.

Have you heard his new joint?

Omfg, horrid.

[SoulOnIce]

I'm 31 now and I grew up with hip hop and I loved it to death(my nick is in honour of the Cleaver book and the Ras Kass album). Now I rarely listen to it. Sometime I'll thrown on a classic like Illmatic, Amerikka Most, or Nations but the only new album I have enjoyed in the past few years was The Documentary.

I can almost pinpoint the moment when rap lost me. I was listening to a Nas song and he started to rap about bodies being left in dumpsters. It just hit me how ridiculous it is that these rappers are in their thirties and they are still talking about the same old shit they did when they were 19. Where is the evolution?

Also, as someone else said, back in the day concerts were about performance and showmanship; not 20 guys on stage walking around aimlessly. I saw Ice Cube a couple months ago and as much criticism as he gets from hip hop fans today the man tore up the stage and put on a show.

[Ayo]

Rap fans aren't loyal because eventually most twelve-year-olds realize that they're being silly and they grow up a little bit.


Who do rappers think they're kidding with their terrible raps?



Fans of The Roots, Ghostface Killah, Outkast, Common (Sense), De La Soul and others tend to be much more loyal. Funny enough, these artists tend not to be total idiots.

[Cyke]

Rap fans aren't loyal because eventually most twelve-year-olds realize that they're being silly and they grow up a little bit.


Who do rappers think they're kidding with their terrible raps?



Fans of The Roots, Ghostface Killah, Outkast, Common (Sense), De La Soul and others tend to be much more loyal. Funny enough, these artists tend not to be total idiots.


Beat me to the punch. Sadly, exceptional acts like the Roots or De La Soul get tossed aside for shallow grillz and shiny things.

Mainstream rap music as a whole hasn't really produced anything with real staying power stemming from actual artistic creativity. The reason why people can quote rap songs from 10 years ago or from lesser-known but acclaimed arists is because there's just a tinge that hits the listener as really profound or incredibly witty (or both). Instead, a lot of times, it's just something repeated ad nauseum, or something bragging about the same old things, just tuned into a different beat.

There isn't much genuine emotion or intellect anymore. A huge chunk of rap these days is all about the various forms that guys can have pissing contests, or at least wish they could be in one.

[Erebus]

I love some of the underground, like Immortal Technique or the Kottonmouth Kings, but it seems like 90% of the rap I hear on the radio all sound the same. Everyonce in a while, something fresh and new will come on, but then about a dozen different artists will copy it and claim their's is original.

[Zero Hunter]

I think another problem is that when someone does come along and does something new they always seem to bring along 5 friends or family members that sound just like they do, and in a very short time they ruin what made them different. I know that they like to help out their crews, but they should be looking out for themselves a little more if they want to have a longer run.

[Ayo]

Some rappers don't say or do anything relevant to the black community, so how can they cry about loyalty?

It's all exploitation. First these bastards exploit the crime in their communities and sell crack to the hopeless, then they turn around and exploit the culture that was meant to uplift and use hip hop as a tool to get rich nevermind trying to heal anyone.

Die.



Bring back African medalions.

[Leslie Lee III]

Bring back African medalions.

So people can exploit African heritage to make a buck off of cheaply made crap again? How about we start selling Malcolm X gear to take away whatever meaning there might have been behind it. Yes, why make music without some political purpose when you can use your music to whore out a political purpose for profit therefore rendering the purpose meaningless?

Thank you Public Enemy for all you did to empower blacks. Surely they accomplished as much for the movement as Dr. King. Now let me go watch Flava of Love.

Civil Rights > T-Shirts, Medallions, and Pop Songs. I wish people would stop demanding rap belittle real issues by turning them into hooks. Let music be enjoyable in it's own rights. Direct blacks to open up books and newspapers for knowledge, not the undergorund hip hop section of iTunes.

[KenK]

So people can exploit African heritage to make a buck off of cheaply made crap again? How about we start selling Malcolm X gear to take away whatever meaning there might have been behind it. Yes, why make music without some political purpose when you can use your music to whore out a political purpose for profit therefore rendering the purpose meaningless?

Thank you Public Enemy for all you did to empower blacks. Surely they accomplished as much for the movement as Dr. King. Now let me go watch Flava of Love.

Civil Rights > T-Shirts, Medallions, and Pop Songs. I wish people would stop demanding rap belittle real issues by turning them into hooks. Let music be enjoyable in it's own rights. Direct blacks to open up books and newspapers for knowledge, not the undergorund hip hop section of iTunes.

But it's not like those socially/politically conscious rappers in the early 90s weren't encouraging people to acquire knowledge of the world and society through traditional means. They weren't positioning themselves to be the sole source of information to the black community, but if they could serve as a means to getting a postive message to people, why shouldn't they?

I think fans' desire for hip-hop music to be more driven by positive messages is the fact that what is presented in mainstream rap is often damaging. Themes of crime, misogony, and materialism are far more prevelent in rap music than any other genre. Some rappers include those themes as a form of commentary, but most simply glorify them as part of their lifestyle.

I was watching videos last night, and they played a few old school joints like Leaders of the New School, and I was like, "Now I remember this!" God forbid a young (18 to 21) rapper come out today and simply about being in high school!! Nothin' about shooting or slingin' rock, just going to class and all that it entails. Even that would be better than hearin' about those knuckleheads prattling on about their rims or dubs, or whatever they f*** they waste their money on. Buy a damn house, you morons!!

[Sheldon]

Rap has retreated to the suburbs. It is the suburban white kids who drive the industry now. They are the one buying all the albums that make it huge. And as always said suburban white kids are typically a generation behind anything that is cutting edge, prefering the homogenized junk we see so popular now.

[Leslie Lee III]

But it's not like those socially/politically conscious rappers in the early 90s weren't encouraging people to acquire knowledge of the world and society through traditional means.

And the result was hustlers at the flea market sold a bunch of T-Shirts and crappy "leather" medallions.


They weren't positioning themselves to be the sole source of information to the black community, but if they could serve as a means to getting a postive message to people, why shouldn't they?

If they want to spend their time making music like that, that's fine. I'm saying it's silly to criticize acts for not doing it because Public Enemy had about as much influence on politics as 2 Live Crew did. Probably less, actually. I'm saying if there were some actual evidence that all these "positive" messages meant anything whatsoever then you could fairly criticize rappers for not doing it. As it is, I don't see it. All I've seen are fashion trends and music snobbery.

You want to help black folks? Quit whining about "Laffy Taffy" and mix in some votes for liberals and increased educational spending. If people want to just say they don't like gang bang stuff, fine, but get off this garbage about "positive" rap having some effect other than producing music you are personally comfortable with.

[KenK]

And the result was hustlers at the flea market sold a bunch of T-Shirts and crappy "leather" medallions.



If they want to spend their time making music like that, that's fine. I'm saying it's silly to criticize acts for not doing it because Public Enemy had about as much influence on politics as 2 Live Crew did. Probably less, actually.

They got politicians in Arizona to recognize Martin Luther King, Jr's birthday as a holiday. I know it's not a change in social reform or anything, but it's an example of rallying people towards achieving a goal. I'd rather take one small step than not move at all.


You want to help black folks? Quit whining about "Laffy Taffy" and mix in some votes for liberals and increased educational spending.

Who are you to assume who votes and who doesn't?


If people want to just say they don't like gang bang stuff, fine, but get off this garbage about "positive" rap having some effect other than producing music you are personally comfortable with.

All I know is, I remember when rap music could be many things. Everyone had an equal share once rap became more mainstream and weren't limited in their subject matter. Women could rap about being sexual without having to flash their crotch every five seconds, average dudes could rap about bad relationships and everyday life without having to be a thug if they never were one, you could be the flashy dancin' playa, it didn't matter. Even when gangsta rap blew up, you still had groups like Souls of Mischief, Tribe Called Quest, Arrested Development (not that I ever cared much for them, with the execption of Dionne Farris). Nowadays you can't see airtime on radio or MTV without "Bitches, Blunts, Bling, and Bullets". You'll forgive me for taking issue with what is arguably the dominant image of black america presented to the rest of the world. Worse, we present it back to other blacks. It's bad enough when athletes outta high school want to go pro and you got dudes like Kobe and Lebron becoming successful to a point that you've got others thinking they can do it, too, forgoing higher education. But we've also got a bunch of kids want to become famous rappers, because they think it's better than going to college. And worse, don't even want to study of history of rap and/or hip-hop as a culture, simply emulating what's current, further diluting the music.