Gaming Trends:

[Leslie Lee III]

Suggest your own, comment on others'.

We need less:

Games with levels, why has that come back into style?
Games where you spend every other second picking up a coin or breaking a box to pick up a coin, again, why is that coming back?
Ditto Scores and blatantly Linear gameplay.
Non-Tactical, but pretty looking, FPS

We need more:
People ripping of the POP: Warrior Within Fighting System
Action-Oriented RPGs
RPG-Oriented Action Games
Auto-Aim with ability to adjust (see Scarface, From Russia with Love)
Survival Horror
High Quality Licensed Games (we've had a lot more than usual lately, it seems with older movies you can take more time)
Custom Soundtracks
Non-WWE Wrestling Games
Fighting games on PSP (Soul Calibre, please!)

[Urusai Wrangler]

I'm actually thankful for more linear games...I personally think the whole sandbox thing is way overrated. I also like the collecting thing; always have. Fact of the matter is that I like older style video games better than most of the newer ones, so the breaking stuff/collecting stuff appeals a bit more to me.

Trends I'd like to see:

Less "realistic" games
More cartoony/fantasy styled games
Make scores matter again

[Leslie Lee III]

I'm actually thankful for more linear games...I personally think the whole sandbox thing is way overrated.

I'm no talking about GTA type games. I'm talking about a game like Devil May Cry, where's there's really no reason to have "levels" and only seems to marginlize what you do. i want to be engrossed in the game. Artificial things like levels, scores, and magic coins hidden in crates everywhere only hurts that. I don't even really like it when monsters in RPGs drop money.

I also dislike:

Disappearing dead bodies, by that I mean the kind that just fade out of existence for no reason other than to save RAM (Friggin Resident Evil on PS1 got rid of this mates, sort it out). If you're killing Vampires that turn to dust, okay.

Nonsensical items lying around. Again, old Survival Horror games got rid of this for the most part with limited means, no excuse for new games to do it.

[SAMAS]

I'm no talking about GTA type games. I'm talking about a game like Devil May Cry, where's there's really no reason to have "levels" and only seems to marginlize what you do. i want to be engrossed in the game. Artificial things like levels, scores, and magic coins hidden in crates everywhere only hurts that. I don't even really like it when monsters in RPGs drop money.

Well, Devil May Cry is a bit of a Special case, at least in the case of Part 3. Each "level" was more of a set of mission parameters. If you really wanted to, you could go all the way back to the beginning of the game in many cases. The Missions were cool because they allowed you not only to take a break and prepare for the next one, but you could also go back and fight some of your favorite battles if you wanted, with things you didn't have before.

[Xero Kaiser]

Games with levels, why has that come back into style?
Games where you spend every other second picking up a coin or breaking a box to pick up a coin, again, why is that coming back?
Ditto Scores and blatantly Linear gameplay.
Non-Tactical, but pretty looking, FPS

Other than scores, those things never left

Less "realistic" games
More cartoony/fantasy styled games

Considering that there are a hell of a lot more fantasy games than realistic ones, I'm not sure what problem you're having. Make a list of all the "realistic" franchises out there and make a list of all the fantasy ones. I'm seriously puzzled by this statement, because the population of the two is so skewed towards fantasy that I have a hard time believing that it's hard to find.

But hell, I'd like to see more JRPGs with a main character that's more like Guts or Kenshiro and less like Jessica Simpson

[Kid Kamikaze10]

But hell, I'd like to see more JRPGs with a main character that's more like Guts or Kenshiro and less like Jessica Simpson

Amen! That will definitely bring in a bigger audience (besides anime/manga fans) to JRPGs.

That, and more action-oriented gameplay.

[Serik]

Two gaming trends I hate:

1. In-game ads.

Screw 'em. There's only a handful of games where ads could work, namely in the sports and racing genres. The problem is not the ads themselves, but developers not effectively placing them. Marketing would love to have huge billboards plaster the game world. But that would ruin the experience. I don't have a problem with a character subtly drinking a Coke or eating at some fast food place. There are only a few publishers who I trust with maintaining the integrity of their games. EA, for example, has no problem cashing out and giving us the finger.

Example:

*EA had the stones to include ads in Battlefield 2142, a game that takes place during a new ice age over 100 years in the future. Sorry if I care about the storyline, but I highly doubt that giant Coke banners will be on the battlefields of the future. Worst of all, however, is that EA still charges $50 for the shoddy bug-laden game. If I'm forced to see ads, I damn well better pay less money for the game.


2. Microdownloads, "booster packs," episodic content

These are buzzwords for total greed. I read that a new GT racing game will cost an additional $70 just to download the extra content. **** that. I just paid $50 for the game. How about just including the content with the original game instead of nickel and diming us for new tracks?

Again, there's only a few companies who I trust with pulling this off. Valve has done a good job with the Half-Life 2 episodes. But EA (again) had the dumb idea of releasing "booster packs" for Battlefield2. So instead of getting a crucial aircraft like the A-10 Warthog with the original game, we have to pay another $10 for it. Worst of all, few servers even kept booster pack maps in rotation, making it hard to even play with your new content!

You can choose not to download this stuff (I won't be downloading horse armor anytime soon). The real problem is devs actively picking stuff not to include in the original game so they can later sell it. This greed, I think, will corrupt the game design process as devs (probably under direction from marketing) leave out otherwise good ideas and force you to pay for each one later.

I know these guys are out to make a profit, but some of this stuff is shameless. To think that back in the 1990s, Cavedog released free units for Total Annihilation. Today, that kind of stuff would cost you only one east payment of $.50 per unit!

[Stellar]

i didn't get the whole ad thing in Battlefield 2142 either. i was thinking about getting it, then a friend called and said he had it so i went over to play. i was like WTF?? not only do you need a high end pc to run this game properly, but those damn ads were EVERYWHERE. that's $50 that's staying in my pocket.

they were annoying enough in NFS:U2, but at least they fit in there

[Leslie Lee III]

Yeah, playing an RPG with someone who isn't a mansissy femboy would be pretty nice. I'd like to see an MA rated RPG to.

[The Fury]

I agree with the action Orientated RPGS and RPG orientated action games ideas.

Also, online capabilities that aloow you to gain extras but are in no way essential to the game are good. FFXI would have been better like that.

Again like said before, less realistic games, I don't own 1 yet they keep getting made.

And more PSP games that allow online play, there are not enough in my view.

[Urusai Wrangler]

Considering that there are a hell of a lot more fantasy games than realistic ones, I'm not sure what problem you're having. Make a list of all the "realistic" franchises out there and make a list of all the fantasy ones. I'm seriously puzzled by this statement, because the population of the two is so skewed towards fantasy that I have a hard time believing that it's hard to find.

I'm not saying there's not a lot out there, all I'm saying is i want to see more. :D There's near-endless artistic styles out there, and yet so few are explored...the recent PS2 game Okami is a good example of the kind of games I love (though I don't own a PS2).

I kinda disagree with he Guts/Kenshiro/Simpson allegory; honestly I can't get into the archtypical "cool badass" hero types. I prefer heroes like Earthworm Jim, Dr.Muto, Munch, Kameo, and Raz (Psychonauts). RARE games in particular are favorites of mine.

[Donald M.]

Yeah, playing an RPG with someone who isn't a mansissy femboy would be pretty nice. I'd like to see an MA rated RPG to.

Yeah, and while we're at it, why not some RPGs in genres other than Fantasy, Sci-Fi or a mix of the two?

Wild Arms is nice and all, but how about a real Western RPG?

There's absolutely no reason the genre has to be limited to remaking Lord of the Rings and Star Wars a billion times over.

[Donald M.]

I'm no talking about GTA type games. I'm talking about a game like Devil May Cry, where's there's really no reason to have "levels" and only seems to marginlize what you do.

See, I have no problem with the GTA style of game design, I just wish more developers would employ that style in something other than the emerging "crime" genre of gaming that the series inspired.

Other developers need to focus on incorporating the basic design style and gameplay mechanics that make the GTA games fun and fresh and less on copying superficial elements.

The GTA games aren't fun becuase you can go around killing people and causing random destruction, they're because they're fun. Killing people and causing random destruction is just a bonus. :evilsmile

Hell, Rockstar itself has proved this. Bully is amazingly fun with no kiling, no foul language, no guns, no carjacking or even ability to drive cars.

[Black Atom]

There are certain types of games I like more than others, but I wouldn't want to see any go away necessarily. The market's as diverse as it's ever been, and that's a good thing.

There are certain game elements I'd like to see go, though, like game-paralyzing load times, though.

[Leslie Lee III]

I could deal with less cartoony games. GTA is freaking cartoony in a lot of ways. It's rare to see games that can capture a strong sense of realism. Games that really allow you to become engrossed. I think RE4 was the last game that really did that for me. Silent Hill 4 was pretty good at is, as was Fatal Frame III.

It's like a lot of developers think going in, "Okay, we're making a VIDEO GAME," instead of really trying to draw the player into an experience. Then they wonder why people pass them up for GTA and Madden. If you've got such unique gameplay ideas they could work without distorted cartoon characters.

[Urusai Wrangler]

I guess this is where our paths diverge. :p A game can still draw me in without being realistic; World of Warcraft is full of all sorts of little details that make Azeroth seem a lot more 'real' than most games that shoot for heightened realism (like EQ2, for example). Realism doesn't help me get engrossed in a game, but rather a strong visual style that helps you believe you're part of that world. In realistic games I seem to find every graphical glitch, blurred texture, or off-the-mark physics reaction in the game, which totally breaks any semblance of immersion I might've had.

I can see realism as being important for games like Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon, or maybe more sim styled games like Forza or Gran Turismo, but on the same token I don't play any of those, either. I guess I have enough realism in real life; when I play a game I want to go to places and see things I can't see anywhere else.

I guess as an artist myself, I feel unique art direction is more important than photorealism; I would rather play an FPS whith stylized presentation such as Timesplitters, XIII, or Halo rather than something in the vein of Ghost Recon or Battlefield 1942. I had a MAJOR problem with Ghost Recon 2, in fact...I'm ex-military, and when I'm standing right next to you and unloading into you with an M60 you should be cut in half, not have all the bullets magically bounce around you while you have enough time to drop a pistol round into my braincase unharmed. It's these sort of gaffes that really screw up the whole semblance of 'realism' in games today.

[Serik]

^ very well said.

As hardware improves, realistic graphics will become so commonplace that they'll no longer be a selling point. Rather, studios will have to create entirely new art styles to separate themselves from the pack. I prefer WoW's graphics to Oblivion's any day. The former has more depth, character, and personality.

Team Fortress 2 looks amazing - and it's not even remotely realistic. The cartoony, slightly humorous models give the game character and separates it from the all-too-common fatigues&camo FPS’s.

And like you said, many games may look "realistic," but the mechanics will be simplied or changed for gameplay purposes. It's funny how so many FPS's will brag about their realism, yet still give you a crosshair instead of ironsights. If I want realism, I want total realism heheh

[Donald M.]

I'd have to agree. I have no problem accepting "cartoony" and unrealistic games on their own level whereas the more realistic a game tries to be, for me it just emphasizes how realist they aren't.

Of course, we may be discussing two different things entirely when we speak of realism. I loved Resident Evil 4 and wouldn't call it realistic.

[Leslie Lee III]

I'd have to agree. I have no problem accepting "cartoony" and unrealistic games on their own level whereas the more realistic a game tries to be, for me it just emphasizes how realist they aren't.

Of course, we may be discussing two different things entirely when we speak of realism. I loved Resident Evil 4 and wouldn't call it realistic.

Realistic and realism aren't, at all, the same things.

You may not call RE4 realistic, but there's certainly a sense of realism to the proceedings and I think that helps in the overall expierience.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

"See, I have no problem with the GTA style of game design, I just wish more developers would employ that style in something other than the emerging "crime" genre of gaming that the series inspired."

There's another major genre that you find a lot of sandbox games in: superheores.

We've got Spiderman 2, Ultimate Spider-Man, Hulk Ultimate Destruction, and Superman Returns so far.

I think it's the perfect genre for sandbox stuff, too. I'm glad to see so many comic book games go for it.

[Silliw 2]

See, I have no problem with the GTA style of game design, I just wish more developers would employ that style in something other than the emerging "crime" genre of gaming that the series inspired.


Hell yeah, I'm sick of the wangsta "urban" games. That is one reason I won't touch Aaint's Row.

I would like it for games to be less scripted. Not fully sandbox, but with AI characters that have freedom. The Halo games are a perfect example of this, as was Goldeneye.

Speaking of Goldeneye, what happened to that mission based type of FPS gameplay? Games like Black, Prey, and Doom 3 just have you running and gunning. How many run-and-gun games do we need?

[Urusai Wrangler]

Speaking of Goldeneye, what happened to that mission based type of FPS gameplay? Games like Black, Prey, and Doom 3 just have you running and gunning. How many run-and-gun games do we need?

Perfect Dark Zero has some pretty decent (if not basic) mission structure.

I wasn't interested in Team Fortress 2 until they retooled the visual presentation; now I can't wait for it.

[Nightcrawler]

There's another major genre that you find a lot of sandbox games in: superheores.

We've got Spiderman 2, Ultimate Spider-Man, Hulk Ultimate Destruction, and Superman Returns so far.

I think it's the perfect genre for sandbox stuff, too. I'm glad to see so many comic book games go for it.

Very good point.

[Xero Kaiser]

I kinda disagree with he Guts/Kenshiro/Simpson allegory; honestly I can't get into the archtypical "cool badass" hero types. I prefer heroes like Earthworm Jim, Dr.Muto, Munch, Kameo, and Raz (Psychonauts). RARE games in particular are favorites of mine.

I was with you until you mentioned Dr. Muto.

But yeah, comical characters are cool (i.e. Disgaea) but that's rare for that to get pulled off in a RPG. If I have to choose between characters looking like this..
http://gamescreenie.com/images/xbox360/enchanted_arms/art/Youki.jpg
http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/batenkaitos/art-013.jpg

or this...
http://www.absoluteanime.com/berserk/guts.jpg

...gimme the "badass". I know that not all JRPG characters look quite that bad. But these overly-flamboyant characters are infecting more games than they need to.

Hell yeah, I'm sick of the wangsta "urban" games. That is one reason I won't touch Aaint's Row.

Too bad. You're missing a hell of a game

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Seriously, there is only one RPG main character, IMO, that was almost as cool as Gatts, and that's Chrono.

Also, Saint's Row is an awesome game. It may be very similar to GTA, but it has all the good stuff from GTA, and more. It's better than San Andreas, and it's far from realistic (or even gritty for that matter, it's really funny).

[Phrozen]

More tactical RPGs. I want Shining Force and Tactics Ogre to come back.
Less exclusive liscensing for sports games. This will kill quality

[Black Atom]

For me, what makes a game immersive has nothing to do with realism; it's about how engaged I am in the game. A good example is Sonic Adventure 2 for the Dreamcast vs. Sonic Rush for the DS. The former has 3D environments and everything, but many of the levels simply require that you hold up on the D-pad--far less engaging than Sonic Rush, which is a side-scroller, but requires more timing and reaction. Neither game strives for ultra realism, obviously, but if you have super-real settings but the gameplay isn't engaging, who needs it?

But if we're just ragging on games we don't want to see anymore, I could do without just about all of the superhero games. Granted, I haven't played them all, but has a single one been great? I mean, is there a single superhero game that's worth playing aside from the fact that it has your favorite character's running around in it?

And please stop making Mortal Kombat games.

[Urusai Wrangler]

I was with you until you mentioned Dr. Muto.

Dr.Muto was an awesome, awesome game if you're into oldschool play mechanics. Plenty of modern action/platformers could learn a trick or two from its level design.

I know that not all JRPG characters look quite that bad. But these overly-flamboyant characters are infecting more games than they need to.


Now see, I like those first two designs. To me, the bottom guy looks little more than Sword-Swinging Generidude v.626, and in terms of character design, I consider him uninteresting and instantly forgettable. It seems that there's two schools of game design theory, and I'm more interested in the more fantastic, less realistic of the two.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Now see, I like those first two designs. To me, the bottom guy looks little more than Sword-Swinging Generidude v.626, and in terms of character design, I consider him uninteresting and instantly forgettable. It seems that there's two schools of game design theory, and I'm more interested in the more fantastic, less realistic of the two.

He's FAR more interesting than those other two. Just read the Beserk Manga, and you will forget you ever said that. He is by far my favorite manga character ever, and that was not a great Gatts picture, admittingly.

Oh, and Black Atom, here's a list of Superhero games that are great:

Death and Return of Superman
Marvel Superheroes and the MVC games
Spiderman 2, and the Playstation Spiderman game
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
X-Men Legends I and II
City of Heroes
Freedom Force and it's sequel
Comic Zone (if that counts)


Those and more.

[DrewTheXenocide]

But if we're just ragging on games we don't want to see anymore, I could do without just about all of the superhero games. Granted, I haven't played them all, but has a single one been great? I mean, is there a single superhero game that's worth playing aside from the fact that it has your favorite character's running around in it?


The first Spider-Man game on the PSX was pretty damn good.

That is, except for the whole "you can't go on the ground because of gas!" thing.

And I hear the Ultimate Spidey game was pretty good too.

[Leslie Lee III]

But if we're just ragging on games we don't want to see anymore, I could do without just about all of the superhero games. Granted, I haven't played them all, but has a single one been great? I mean, is there a single superhero game that's worth playing aside from the fact that it has your favorite character's running around in it?

People aren't just ragging on games they don't want to see anymore. They're talking about gaming cliche's that they could do without or things they'd like to see more of.

I want more realistic games because that's what I want to play, that doesn't require other games to not exist. I don't want mansissy RPG characters but I still play as plenty of shemen since I like RPGs. I'd just enjoy those games more if the men actually had testicles (or at least just have women in the role). I've tolerated that sort of thing quite a bit, I just want to see something different. It's not like getting rid of pointless coin gathering would require anyone to stop production on a game. That's not "diversity", that's just outdated mechanics used to falsely extend the life of a game.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

People aren't just ragging on games they don't want to see anymore. They're talking about gaming cliche's that they could do without or things they'd like to see more of.

I want more realistic games because that's what I want to play, that doesn't require other games to not exist. I don't want mansissy RPG characters but I still play as plenty of shemen since I like RPGs. I'd just enjoy those games more if the men actually had testicles (or at least just have women in the role). I've tolerated that sort of thing quite a bit, I just want to see something different. It's not like getting rid of pointless coin gathering would require anyone to stop production on a game. That's not "diversity", that's just outdated mechanics used to falsely extend the life of a game.

Quoted for truth.

[Black Atom]

He's FAR more interesting than those other two. Just read the Beserk Manga, and you will forget you ever said that. He is by far my favorite manga character ever, and that was not a great Gatts picture, admittingly.

Oh, and Black Atom, here's a list of Superhero games that are great:

Death and Return of Superman
Marvel Superheroes and the MVC games
Spiderman 2, and the Playstation Spiderman game
Hulk: Ultimate Destruction
X-Men Legends I and II
City of Heroes
Freedom Force and it's sequel
Comic Zone (if that counts)
Those and more.

Well, I was referring to the modern gen, really. While Hulk: UD and the X-Men Legends games are considered the cream of the crop for superhero games, I consider them to be pretty mediocre overall.

[Black Atom]

People aren't just ragging on games they don't want to see anymore. They're talking about gaming cliche's that they could do without or things they'd like to see more of.

I don't see how what you're doing is any different from what I'm doing. We were talking about trends and I voiced my disappointment with the current trend of superhero games. I'd say 1 of every 8 that's put out is worthwhile; kinda the same with Star Wars franchise of games.


I want more realistic games because that's what I want to play, that doesn't require other games to not exist. I don't want mansissy RPG characters but I still play as plenty of shemen since I like RPGs. I'd just enjoy those games more if the men actually had testicles (or at least just have women in the role). I've tolerated that sort of thing quite a bit, I just want to see something different. It's not like getting rid of pointless coin gathering would require anyone to stop production on a game. That's not "diversity", that's just outdated mechanics used to falsely extend the life of a game.

The industry is full of gimmicks that falsely add replay value, my least favorite being the "beat the game 1000 times to get new costumes" or "beat super-ridiculous stupid hard mode for new characters", both of which are fairly new. Do you prefer these gimmicks because they aren't "outdated"? Considering the possibilities of video games and the innovation we're constantly being promised, I think we could do better.

And it does add diversity. As we've learned in this thread, not everyone plays video games because they want the realistic, simulated experience of being a marine, or a stock car driver or a gangster. Some people like to play games where you collect crap.

[Leslie Lee III]

I don't see how what you're doing is any different from what I'm doing.

I don't see whyMaking blankent judgments about games you haven't even played is different than complaining about specific things in games you play constantly.

The industry is full of gimmicks that falsely add replay value, my least favorite being the "beat the game 1000 times to get new costumes" or "beat super-ridiculous stupid hard mode for new characters", both of which are fairly new. Do you prefer these gimmicks because they aren't "outdated"?

I've made no comments on that sort of thing, so I don't know why you're asking me about it as if I did. Regardless, beating a game for an extra costume is up to you. You're not forced to do it in order to progress through the game. You don't have to play super-hard mode.

And it does add diversity.

Are you serious? Yeah, some people may enjoy breaking open a box for a coin every other step, but that has no effect on the diversity of video games as a whole. There's not a "Pointlessly break open boxes for coins" genre. You could get rid of that small mechanic entirely and pretty much every game coming out would still exist. I see no reason why a game, like Okami, which is already long needs you doing something pointless like that every other step.

[Black Atom]

I don't see whyMaking blankent judgments about games you haven't even played is different than complaining about specific things in games you play constantly.

Do you have a reason to think I haven't played the games I was passing judgement on? Or are you just making an assumption?


I've made no comments on that sort of thing, so I don't know why you're asking me about it as if I did.

Are you sure? Didn't you say, in regards to collecting items in games:

It's not like getting rid of pointless coin gathering would require anyone to stop production on a game. That's not "diversity", that's just outdated mechanics used to falsely extend the life of a game.

Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like your problem with "pointless coin gathering" was that it's used to "falsely extend the life of a game." In that case, do you have a problem with all mechanics used to falsely extend the life of games, or just coin gathering specifically?


Regardless, beating a game for an extra costume is up to you. You're not forced to do it in order to progress through the game. You don't have to play super-hard mode.

Generally, you can right right by coin boxes, too. Then again, when you mentioned that, the first thing that popped in my head were the Mario games. Maybe if you had a specific example, your complaints about gathering coins would seem less generic.


Are you serious? Yeah, some people may enjoy breaking open a box for a coin every other step, but that has no effect on the diversity of video games as a whole. There's not a "Pointlessly break open boxes for coins" genre. You could get rid of that small mechanic entirely and pretty much every game coming out would still exist. I see no reason why a game, like Okami, which is already long needs you doing something pointless like that every other step.

Not really. Collecting stuff, whether it be coins, rings, bananas, or music notes, is pretty much a staple of the platformer genre. There are exceptions, but generally you can't really dismiss that element without dismissing the entire genre. The removal of a genre from a market would, by definition, make that market less diverse.

OTOH, maybe you're talking about the appearance of coin boxes, or other collectable items, in other genres, in which case I'd probably agree with you (I can't really see a reason to have coin boxes in GRAW, for example). But you didn't really specify.

[Urusai Wrangler]

That's not "diversity", that's just outdated mechanics used to falsely extend the life of a game.

Outdated mechanics aren't necessarily bad; Monopoly is still America's mostpopular boardgame, and it's well over 50 years old, amd Ms.Pac-Man is one of the world's most played games ever despite being over twenty years old. Frankly, trying to find all 100 elemental fruit in Kameo is some of the most fun I've had with a game in some time, and I've still got two to find yet.

He's FAR more interesting than those other two. Just read the Beserk Manga, and you will forget you ever said that. He is by far my favorite manga character ever, and that was not a great Gatts picture, admittingly.

I'm not interested in discussing the merits of the character's story but rather the merits of visual design, and Gatts' design simply doesn't appeal to me (in fact, I found the import Dreamcast Berserk game to be pretty uninteresting). I can't say whether or not the other two characters would be more interesting than Gatts or not as I haven't played either of the RPGs involved; truth be told, I'm really not much of an RPG fan (and even less of a fan of JRPGs). As for the manga recommendation, I really don't get into manga for most of the main reasons mentioned here; about the only two I could really get into over the last decade are One Piece and FullMetal Alchemist.

[Leslie Lee III]

Do you have a reason to think I haven't played the games I was passing judgement on?

Yeah.

But if we're just ragging on games we don't want to see anymore, I could do without just about all of the superhero games. Granted, I haven't played them all...

Are you sure?

Yes, I'm 100% sure I didn't say anything about extra costumes or difficulty levels AKA things that don't actually effect gameplay whatsoever.

There are exceptions, but generally you can't really dismiss that element without dismissing the entire genre.

You say there are exceptions, then say they are intrinsically linked. Adding the word "generally" doesn't make it make more sense. I named a specific example of it being a bad mechanic, Okami, but that's aside form the fact that getting rid of it entirely wouldn't kill any genre of video game. Makes as much sense as saying getting rid of random battles would kill RPGs. If RPGs exist without random battles then you can't say, "generally you can't really dismiss random battles without dismissing the entire genre."

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Outdated mechanics aren't necessarily bad; Monopoly is still America's mostpopular boardgame, and it's well over 50 years old, amd Ms.Pac-Man is one of the world's most played games ever despite being over twenty years old. Frankly, trying to find all 100 elemental fruit in Kameo is some of the most fun I've had with a game in some time, and I've still got two to find yet.



I'm not interested in discussing the merits of the character's story but rather the merits of visual design, and Gatts' design simply doesn't appeal to me (in fact, I found the import Dreamcast Berserk game to be pretty uninteresting). I can't say whether or not the other two characters would be more interesting than Gatts or not as I haven't played either of the RPGs involved; truth be told, I'm really not much of an RPG fan (and even less of a fan of JRPGs). As for the manga recommendation, I really don't get into manga for most of the main reasons mentioned here; about the only two I could really get into over the last decade are One Piece and FullMetal Alchemist.

Maybe it's just a personal preference thing.

[Black Atom]

Now let's look at what I said in context:

But if we're just ragging on games we don't want to see anymore, I could do without just about all of the superhero games. Granted, I haven't played them all, but has a single one been great?

Hmm. Doesn't look like I was making a blanketed statement about games I've never played.

I haven't played every superhero game, but I've played enough that I've pretty much written off the genre as a whole ("enough" is subjective, but there are more I've played to completion than haven't picked up at all). Of course, that's just my opinion.


Yes, I'm 100% sure I didn't say anything about extra costumes or difficulty levels AKA things that don't actually effect gameplay whatsoever.

I understand what you're saying.

You say there are exceptions, then say they are intrinsically linked. Adding the word "generally" doesn't make it make more sense.."

Of course it does, unless one is purposely being simple. There are always exceptions when talking about genre conventions.

I named a specific example of it being a bad mechanic, Okami, but that's aside form the fact that getting rid of it entirely wouldn't kill any genre of video game. Makes as much sense as saying getting rid of random battles would kill RPGs. If RPGs exist without random battles then you can't say, "generally you can't really dismiss random battles without dismissing the entire genre."

There are some conventions that define the genre, i.e. elements that actually draw people to that specific type of game. Personally, I don't like when games have stuff that is needlessly destructable, mostly for the same reason you seem to dislike collecting stuff. Really, why do I want to stop progressing and bash a fire hydrant or a parking meter? (it's even worse when only select items can be destroyed) Still, some people really get off on that stuff and go for certain games because of that.

[Leslie Lee III]

Of course it does, unless one is purposely being simple. There are always exceptions when talking about genre conventions.

If there are exceptions then they aren't intrisically linked as you attempt to suggest. If you can make a platformer without coin gathering then you can dismiss coin gathering without dismissing all platformers. I don't know how much more "simple" you can get than that concept.

There are some conventions that define the genre

And then there are some that are just common, like coin gathering and random battles. They aren't necessary and you could get rid of them without getting rid of the genre. Again, pretty simple.

[Urusai Wrangler]

Maybe it's just a personal preference thing.

Exactly, which is why I can understand the other side of the coin, too. In retrospect, I guess I really shouldn't have said I'd like to see 'fewer realistic games' and just said that I'd like to see more cartoony/fantasy-styled ones.

[Xero Kaiser]

Now see, I like those first two designs. To me, the bottom guy looks little more than Sword-Swinging Generidude v.626, and in terms of character design, I consider him uninteresting and instantly forgettable. It seems that there's two schools of game design theory, and I'm more interested in the more fantastic, less realistic of the two.

I like the more fantastic characters too. But those two designs (and most of the designs from their respective games) are F'n terrible. Coming up with the craziest design you can think of just for the sake of being crazy hardly counts as good character design to me. That's where a lot of JRPGs go wrong. It's just off-the-wall, random garbage that's embarrassing to look at. Games like Warcraft, Fable, Def Jam:FFNY or Jet Set Radio look stylized without looking retarded. Just being weird isn't enough

I like to draw too, so an interesting looking artstyle is the fastest way to grab my attention. I just don't consider "ridiculous" to be interesting

[Donald M.]

Realistic and realism aren't, at all, the same things.

You may not call RE4 realistic, but there's certainly a sense of realism to the proceedings and I think that helps in the overall expierience.

RE4 had it's share of silliness, but I think I get what you're saying.

Thankfully there's plenty of room for realistic games and cartoony games, because I find a lot to enjoy about both.

[Leslie Lee III]

My problem with Realistic vs Cartoony is when they needlessly mix the two. Example, Onimusha 3.

Everything was going great, I had freaking Jean Reno busting caps in demons...and then the bumbling fairy showed up. Granted, Onimusha "borrows" a lot of ideas from the aforementioned Berserk manga which also includes a pointless fairy floating around. The game really doesn't need comic relief and would have been a better experience without it (or the sidestory about Reno's son, horrid, can't I just save the world?). Capcom seems to have a hard-on for really cheesy stuff in general.

Again with RPGs, it's like a law they have to employ something cutesy and cartoony or silly, even when they're generally about seirous subject matters. The only RPG I can think of that avoided this was Magna Carta. Too bad they didn't get the gameplay right.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, XML, XML2, Spiderman 2, and Ultimate Spiderman are all stellar games. Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and Superman Returns are looking fantastic, too.

[Xero Kaiser]

Granted, Onimusha "borrows" a lot of ideas from the aforementioned Berserk manga which also includes a pointless fairy floating around

"I'm an Elf, an Elf dammit!"

-Puck

[Black Atom]

If there are exceptions then they aren't intrisically linked as you attempt to suggest. If you can make a platformer without coin gathering then you can dismiss coin gathering without dismissing all platformers. I don't know how much more "simple" you can get than that concept.


Your point is too simple to do your argument justice. People have made rock music without guitars. Let's get rid of all guitars.

Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, XML, XML2, Spiderman 2, and Ultimate Spiderman are all stellar games.
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and Superman Returns are looking fantastic, too.

The Spider-Man games have been consistently decent, but I don't think any were as great as the first. Hulk: UD just isn't my thing, admittedly. The Legends games just remind of better top-down hack-n-slash stat-builders
(Hopefully Marvel: UA will improve on that).

Superman Returns is a game I'll most likely NEVER play, to be honest. There've probably been two Superman games worth playing EVER; Taito's old arcade game and Death and Return of Superman for the SNES. Considering that and the fact that I didn't even like the movie, I'll be avoiding it like a nest of cobras unless there's just overwhelming praise.

[Leslie Lee III]

Your point is too simple to do your argument justice. People have made rock music without guitars. Let's get rid of all guitars.

That doesn't resemble my argument at all. You are saying you could not make rock music if we got rid of guitars, I am saying that's nonesense because it is. It's been proven numerous times that one can exist without the other. You're confusing "common" with "necessary."

Remember, you're trying to justify a claim that you're wholesale dismissal of superhero games is the same as complaining about coin gathering. It doesn't work, because even platformers can work without coin gathering (and I didn't suggest that it should never appear again, ever in any game). We certainly can't have superhero games if we did as you suggested.

[Stellar]

i don't like it when games get too realistic. like in splinter cell and Tenshu, when you have to hide the bodies. it's challenging, but i'd rather have fun when playing a video game.

as for superhero video games, well...the only one i enjoyed was Capcom's X-men: Mutant Apocalypse for the SNES. it really is a shame that most superhero games lack so much.

as for the coin gathering argument, well. since the earliest platformers had that gimmick, it's become part of what makes the genre what it is. you could have a platformer without coin gathering, but few would like that idea

[Leslie Lee III]

i don't like it when games get too realistic. like in splinter cell and Tenshu, when you have to hide the bodies. it's challenging, but i'd rather have fun when playing a video game.

Those are stealth games, they really should be challenging in that way (although SC is a cakewalk with hiding bodies compared to Hitman). You have the option of numerous ninja/samurai straight up action games. However, there definitely need to be more espionage action games. Syphon Filter on PS was consistently awesome. I didn't get much into the PS2 one due to the online stuff, but I'll give it another shot sometime.

[Stellar]

agreed, there are enough less challenging nina/samurai games out there. speaking of which, was the Ninja Gaiden for Xbox any good?

[aukevin]

I like the linear type games, but I also like the freedom to roam around. The way the Zelda games and games like Kingdom Hearts II work is my favorite. You know where you need to go next, but you don't have to be in a hurry.

I'm not big on the realistic looking games. For instance, I love Justice League Heroes, but I kinda wish they were a little more cartoony of characters. I think that would look pretty cool, like Batman Rise of Sin Tzu. FFX was a nice medium between the cartoon and ultra-realistic I think. It worked nice.

I also like the games that go a little too extreme like the new Tony Hawk Downhill Jam. You can jump your board off a cliff in that game and keep going, that's a lot of fun to me.

I don't like the gory games, the first person shooters, or the war games that much, but it's nice that there are all types for the different preferences.

[Leslie Lee III]

agreed, there are enough less challenging nina/samurai games out there. speaking of which, was the Ninja Gaiden for Xbox any good?

I heard it was extremely good, but challenging still (not because you have to hide bodies though).

A trend I want to see more of, something from Devil May Cry 3, bosses that take FOREVER to kill. Not necessarily hard but bosses that test your endurance.

I'd like to see less cutscenes and dialouge before you get into a game. I think it should be a law that within 2 minutes I'm actually playing some role in the game. Even if it's just a training or preview section that ends up being followed by more movies, I still want to know what the game is like without sitting through 15 minutes of FMVs.\\

Less pointless dialogue scens like in XENOGEARS. Again, good game, LONG game, that could be a lot more enjoyable if they had a decent editor. You sit through so much unnecessary crap without playing. It has an awesome main story, but there are too many extraneous scenes that really have nothing to do with anything. They'd be fine if Xenogears was a TV show, but as a game they border on inexscusable.

[Serik]

Agreed, I'm not a fan of cutscenes because I'm supposed to be playing a game, not watching a film. The Half-Life series does a fantastic job of introducing you to the story and gameplay mechanics without using FMVs or anything. You walk around, talk to people, and face easy enemies at the game's start to teach you the basics. This approach is so much more immersive than pulling you out the game and showing a FMV.

But a few cutscenes here and there aren't going to ruin a game for me.

[Convoy]

And it's even worse when they make the cutscene unskippable.

[Leslie Lee III]

I actually dislike the "Walk around and talk to people for 10 minutes" as much as 10 minutes of FMV. Not saying Half-Life is like that, but I've played several that are and it's even more frustrating. I just want to kill something, not walk around th ship until get chewed out by my commanding officer for not walking around the ship fast enough.

[Xero Kaiser]

as for the coin gathering argument, well. since the earliest platformers had that gimmick, it's become part of what makes the genre what it is. you could have a platformer without coin gathering, but few would like that idea

You think so? How many platformers these days sell worth a damn? The few that do, like Ratchet and Clank, seem to be doing exactly what you say they can't. Hell, even when they were popular, coin-gathering was never a selling point.

A trend I want to see more of, something from Devil May Cry 3, bosses that take FOREVER to kill. Not necessarily hard but bosses that test your endurance.

Bosses in DMC3 could be dropped in like...1 or 2 minutes, not much of an endurance test. Beyond that, why would you want a boss fight that's just long, and little else? Games like DMC3, God of War and Ninja Gaiden had amazing boss fights because they were intense, not long.

Have you ever played World of Warcraft, Everquest or Legend of Mana on it's hardest difficulty? Do you know what it's like to have a boss fight that's insanely easy but takes, literally, 10 minutes of just standing in front of it and hacking and hacking and hacking and hacking and hacking and hacking and hacking and hacking and hacking
andhackingandhackingandhackingandhackingandhacking andhackingandhackingandhackingandhackingandhacking andhackingandhackingandhackingandhackingandhacking andhackingandhackingandhackingandhackingandhacking andhackingandhackingandhackingandhackingandhacking andhackingandhackingandhackingandhackingandhacking andhackingandhackingandhacking away at it until it falls down? It's not fun, and people are literally finding other things to do during the fight. Just making a boss big and giving it 10 million HPs is the worst, laziest way to do a boss fight...ugh. There are few things in gaming I hate as much as this p(-_-p)

I'd like to see less cutscenes and dialouge before you get into a game. I think it should be a law that within 2 minutes I'm actually playing some role in the game. Even if it's just a training or preview section that ends up being followed by more movies, I still want to know what the game is like without sitting through 15 minutes of FMVs.\\

Now this I can agree with. I skipped the opening scene of MGS3 after I had already spent 20-30 minutes watching it. And Kingdom Hearts 2 dragged on for 3 hours (with only 2 actual fights) before the game actually started. Even now, I swear I'm watching KH2 a lot more than I'm playing it. It's like....30 second fight -> 5 minute cutscene. I hate skipping movies, but I'm starting to lose my patience with a lot of games. Particularly console-RPGs.

[Stellar]

And it's even worse when they make the cutscene unskippable.

i totally hate it when they do that.

as for bosses that take forever to beat, first time i took on Ultimecia from FFVIII, man, i must've thought at least 4 times that i'd FINALLY beaten her, then the bitch transforms. Squall was the only party member i had left by the end of it, she killed everyone else. but it was intense, and i played my ass off. truly memorable

[Leslie Lee III]

Bosses in DMC3 could be dropped in like...1 or 2 minutes,

The Cerebus couldn't, at least not when I was playing. Seemed to take forever even though it wasn't very hard. I don't mind it.

MMORPG's aren't a god example of anything since they are so non-interactive. But something like Shadow of the Colussus is a good example of what I mean, more or less.

And you shouln't just be able to skip cut scenes, you should be able to pause them as well. In EVERY game. I don't thin there is any excuse for not having this as a feature for every FMV and cutscene in every game.

[Stellar]

never thought of a pause option for FMVs before. seems like a reasonable and i don't see why it couldn't work.
it's cool when a boss fight takes long because the boss is challenging, what's annoying is when the boss is uber hard and/or cheap. can i get a shout out to SNK?

[Black Atom]

That doesn't resemble my argument at all. You are saying you could not make rock music if we got rid of guitars, I am saying that's nonesense because it is. It's been proven numerous times that one can exist without the other. You're confusing "common" with "necessary."

Remember, you're trying to justify a claim that you're wholesale dismissal of superhero games is the same as complaining about coin gathering. It doesn't work, because even platformers can work without coin gathering (and I didn't suggest that it should never appear again, ever in any game). We certainly can't have superhero games if we did as you suggested.

I don't remember making any suggestions. I was just stating my opinion. In fact, I prefaced the statement with those words. I'm perfectly fine with the existence of the superhero genre--I just don't need to play them. You seem to want item gathering to go away just because you don't like it.

[Leslie Lee III]

I don't remember making any suggestions. I was just stating my opinion. In fact, I prefaced the statement with those words. I'm perfectly fine with the existence of the superhero genre--I just don't need to play them. You seem to want item gathering to go away just because you don't like it.


But if we're just ragging on games we don't want to see anymore, I could do without just about all of the superhero games....

And please stop making Mortal Kombat games.

I mean, it's right there. From the beginning you've misconstrued what this thread was actually about and, so far, you're the only one who is just "ragging on games we don't want to see anymore." I don't see how you got it so twisted but you did. I don't see how you can begin to claim your statements resemble the ponts others here were making.

[Black Atom]

You think so? How many platformers these days sell worth a damn? The few that do, like Ratchet and Clank, seem to be doing exactly what you say they can't. Hell, even when they were popular, coin-gathering was never a selling point.


The Mario and Sonic games still rather pretty well. The last Crash Bandicoot and Jak and Daxter did as good or better than Ratchet and Clank, and both require item collecting. You've also got Viewtiful Joe, which had item collecting but was pretty innovativein other ways.

[Black Atom]

I mean, it's right there. From the beginning you've misconstrued what this thread was actually about and, so far, you're the only one who is just "ragging on games we don't want to see anymore." I don't see how you got it so twisted but you did. I don't see how you can begin to claim your statements resemble the ponts others here were making.

Then what are the people who are saying "I want to see less cartoony games" or "I don't want to see anymore RPGs with gay-looking dudes" doing? I'm not calling anyone out, but why single out my post?

I want to see less games developed around popular licenses like Star Wars or Harry Potter and most superheroes for the same reason; developers bank on the name to sell copies and flood the market with substandard games. I don't see why you take such issue with my opinion, except that you apparently disagree.

Unless your problem is with what I said about Mortal Kombat, which was meant to be a joke. At least, the inclusion in my post was a joke; I was serious as a heart attack when I said they should stop making them.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I would like to see more bosses as a gigantic puzzle rather than an enemy, much like Soul Reaver for the PSX. I thought the second Prince of Persia had an immense opportunity to do so, to make the bosses gigantic, and you've gotta run around a big obstacle course to beat him, but I was dissapointed. The whole Dahaka thing would've been awesome if the final fight at the end was more like the appearnces he makes throughout the game.

[Leslie Lee III]

I don't see why you take such issue with my opinion, except that you apparently disagree.

I don't really care about your opinion on superhero games, I was just pointing out your statements about this thread were flawed. If you just want to say you don't want to see this or that game, that's fine, but don't say that's what others or doing when they're talking about specific game mechanics and cliches they dislike. I don't want all platform games gone just because I said I wanted less coin gathering. Homey doesn't want all JRPGs gone just because he wants some non-sissy male leads. It's not the same thing as dismissing all Superhero games, regardless of your justifications.

I would like to see more bosses as a gigantic puzzle rather than an enemy, much like Soul Reaver for the PSX. I thought the second Prince of Persia had an immense opportunity to do so, to make the bosses gigantic, and you've gotta run around a big obstacle course to beat him, but I was dissapointed. The whole Dahaka thing would've been awesome if the final fight at the end was more like the appearnces he makes throughout the game.

After running away from him the whole game, it was nice to finally turn around and lay waste.

I really hate how they made the Prince a man-boy girlpants again in the sequel. I can understand RPGs having that, but a sword swinging action game? Sort it out.

[Black Atom]

I don't really care about your opinion on superhero games.I was just pointing out your statements about this thread were flawed.

If you just want to say you don't want to see this or that game, that's fine, but don't say that's what others or doing when they're talking about specific game mechanics and cliches they dislike.

Yet, talking about a specific genre I dislike is arbitrarily "flawed" is what you're saying?


I don't want all platform games gone just because I said I wanted less coin gathering. Homey doesn't want all JRPGs gone just because he wants some non-sissy male leads. It's not the same thing as dismissing all
Superhero games, regardless of your justifications.


I haven't made any justifications. All I see is a simple case of what's good for the goose not being good enough for the gander.

[Leslie Lee III]

Yet, talking about a specific genre I dislike is arbitrarily "flawed" is what you're saying?

No, I'm saying you came in and made blanket statements about the thread which were wrong and you are the only person who has posted anything that actually fits those statements. I said you're welcome to just gripe about games you don't want to see anymore. You are NOT welcome to say that's what other people are doing here when they clearly aren't. That's it. I don't care about your opinion on superhero games, but you can't tell me I want to get rid of all platformers just because I said I wanted to see less pointless coin grabbing.

[Black Atom]

No, I'm saying you came in and made blanket statements about the thread which were wrong and you are the only person who has posted anything that actually fits those statements. I said you're welcome to just gripe about games you don't want to see anymore. You are NOT welcome to say that's what other people are doing here when they clearly aren't. That's it. I don't care about your opinion on superhero games, but you can't tell me I want to get rid of all platformers just because I said I wanted to see less pointless coin grabbing.

That's not what happened at all. You initially took issue with my post, because you'd assumed (incorrectly) that I hadn't played any of the games I was criticizing. Even after your accusation was shot down, you persist either because you simply don't believe me or you like to argue. I haven't made any accusations about other posters or their posts.

[Leslie Lee III]

You initially took issue with my post, because you'd assumed (incorrectly) that I hadn't played any of the games I was criticizing.

Wrong. First of all, you just asked me what my issues with your statements were, I tell you, then you tell me I'm wrong and explain to me what my issue was? On what planet does that make any sense? You haven't even read the thread apparently anyway:

People aren't just ragging on games they don't want to see anymore. They're talking about gaming cliche's that they could do without or things they'd like to see more of.

I want more realistic games because that's what I want to play, that doesn't require other games to not exist. I don't want mansissy RPG characters but I still play as plenty of shemen since I like RPGs. I'd just enjoy those games more if the men actually had testicles (or at least just have women in the role). I've tolerated that sort of thing quite a bit, I just want to see something different. It's not like getting rid of pointless coin gathering would require anyone to stop production on a game. That's not "diversity", that's just outdated mechanics used to falsely extend the life of a game.

That was my first statement to you. So, as I just said, my issue was your claim that people were, "just ragging on games they don't want to see anymore." Also, you said yourself you hadn't played every superhero game, and you certainly haven't played ones that aren't released yet, yet you're dismissing them (as well as the MK franchise). That's different from people complaining about specific examples. Feel free to make those comments, just don't say that's what other people here are doing. You're so busy trying to defend your complaints you probably still don't realize what I'm actually taking issue with. It's not what you said about the games, it's what you said about the posts of others here and I'm not going to explain that to you again.

[The Drunkard Kid]

never thought of a pause option for FMVs before. seems like a reasonable and i don't see why it couldn't work.
it's cool when a boss fight takes long because the boss is challenging, what's annoying is when the boss is uber hard and/or cheap. can i get a shout out to SNK?
I know you can pause in the cutscenes in Summoner II, but I'll have to double-check to see if that was true of the FMVs as well. I think it was (and you get an option to skip them if you want as well; the same occurs for character dialogue, in case you accidentally end up talking to someone longwinded after you've already gotten all you can from them).

[Leslie Lee III]

I've seen the pause and skip mechanic in a few games. Every game should have it, no excuses.

Also, no handheld should ever come out without a sleep mode similar to the PSPs. No matter what you're doing in any game, you can put it to sleep and pick up right where you left off when you want to. I hated how the GBA Micro left this sort of thing up to the game developers, and the battery life in their sleep mode tended to suck.

[The Drunkard Kid]

http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/batenkaitos/art-013.jpg

or this...
http://www.absoluteanime.com/berserk/guts.jpg

...gimme the "badass". I know that not all JRPG characters look quite that bad. But these overly-flamboyant characters are infecting more games than they need to.
Using Geldoblame is a horrible thing to do. Not only was he one of the main villains of the series, but he's from Baten Kaitos, a game that, for all of it's extreme awesomeness, is populated by the worst fashion disasters this side of anywhere.

As for a game about someone that looks like Gatts/Guts... Yeah, I guess a game starring Arngrim of Valkyrie Profile would be kinda awesome.
http://www.cf-network.com/cfan/IMG/jpg/pict_big_arngrim.jpg
He looks more like Gatts/Guts in the actual game, though. Heck, he seems to be based on Arngrim the Berserker of Norse mythology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lSnSzlwIo

[Leslie Lee III]

Yeah, Arngrim is awesome and a total Gats rip off. So is Lenneth actually. Valkyrie Profile 1, at least with some characters, broke the man-sissy mold. VP2? Not so much, still good, but not as fulfilling.

[Black Atom]

That was my first statement to you. So, as I just said, my issue was your claim that people were, "just ragging on games they don't want to see anymore."?

I didn't say that to impune anyone or their opinions. You seem to be the only one taking my verbiage that way. If you say "I don't want to see games with anymore" then what, pray tell, are you doing besides complaining
about games you don't want to see anymore?

Given that, what makes my complaint less legitimate than yours or anyone else's in this thead? No matter how self-important or authoritative you try to sound when you state your opinion, all that anyone here is qualified to do is bitch about the stuff they don't like about video games. If someone is operating under the delusion that they're performing some greater cause or doing the industry a favor by rattling off lists of things they don't like, I'm not going to apologize
for that.

Also, you said yourself you hadn't played every superhero game, and you certainly haven't played ones that aren't
released yet, yet you're dismissing them (as well as the MK franchise).

No one here has played every game that's guilty of the thing they're complaining about, including you. I've played enough to know they are (IMO) inherently crappy or more poorly executed than others games as surely as you've played enough coin gathering games to know it doesn't meet your gameplay standards.

That's different from people complaining about specific examples. Feel free to make those comments, just don't say that's what other people here are doing.

Again, not everyone gave specific examples, including yourself. Some just had general likes and dislikes. Still, I provided examples in follow-up posts.

You're so busy trying to defend your complaints you probably [b]still don't realize what I'm actually taking issue with.

I've made no attempt to defend my original statement because I don't know what's offensive about it.

It's not what you said about the games, it's what you said about the posts of others here and I'm not going to explain that to you again.

Fine by me.

[Leslie Lee III]

I didn't say that to impune anyone or their opinions.

I don't care why you said it. You said it and it was wrong. That was the point, nothing else. I pointed out it was wrong because I made this thread in such a way to deliberately avoid the dead end commentary you decided to make and falsely claim otherws were making. I can't think of any other way to explain the difference between, "All _______ games suck, get rid of them," and, "I'd like to see less __________ in games and more ________," to you, you refuse to acknowledge it.

[Serik]

Don't you hate it when silly arguments over-run a thread...

[Perry Holley]

Don't you hate it when silly arguments over-run a thread...Sadly, I'm kind of used to it at this point.

Mind you, that doesn't prevent me from gaining some amusement over the effort some people will put into their "I like game X, how dare you like game Y" arguements. They'll sometimes dress it up a little to make it seem more like a 'debate', and/or will try to justify it as them having somehow being 'wronged' in the discussion, but in the end, yeah, it is pretty silly, this type of back-and-forth bickering over, of all things, gaming.

[Black Atom]

I made this thread in such a way to deliberately avoid the dead end commentary...

How do you think that worked out?

[Leslie Lee III]

How do you think that worked out?

Great. It's the internet. Having only one person letting the point fly by them is pretty amazing.

[Perry Holley]

Having only one person letting the point fly by them is pretty amazing.All right, tone it down a notch. If you can't make your point without being insulting, then your point probably isn't worth making.

[DrewTheXenocide]

I really hate how they made the Prince a man-boy girlpants again in the sequel. I can understand RPGs having that, but a sword swinging action game? Sort it out.

I think that's what I hated most about PoP 2. The first one was cool in that it had a light tone, and a story book atmosphere, almost Aladin-like. The second laid it on a bit too heavy, what with the Godsmack and the retorts.

Which I guess is another trend that I don't dig. Gritty does not equal good.

[Black Atom]

I think that's what I hated most about PoP 2. The first one was cool in that it had a light tone, and a story book atmosphere, almost Aladin-like. The second laid it on a bit too heavy, what with the Godsmack and the retorts.

Which I guess is another trend that I don't dig. Gritty does not equal good.

I haven't played "The Two Thrones" through yet, but from what I hear the dialed down some of that so the atmosphere is more like the first one (SoT)

[cactusmaac]

I can't really think of a gaming trend I dislike. Publishers releasing beta tests as finished games and then telling everybody to download the patch from the internet might qualify but it doesn't really affect me.

There's something out there for everyone regardless of their tastes. I'd like more 3-D space shooters a la Starfox, but that's about it.

[Xero Kaiser]

The Mario and Sonic games still rather pretty well. The last Crash Bandicoot and Jak and Daxter did as good or better than Ratchet and Clank, and both require item collecting. You've also got Viewtiful Joe, which had item collecting but was pretty innovativein other ways.

Crash Bandicoot doesn't sell that well. Certainly nowhere near R&C's numbers. They even poke fun at that in their own games.

Besides that, damn near every game has item collecting in some form, but that doesn't mean the game revolves around it. There's a difference between picking up an occasional powerup (Viewtiful Joe, Jak and Daxter, Sonic) and an endless stream of fetchquests (Banjo Kazooie, Donkey Kong 64).


MMORPG's aren't a god example of anything since they are so non-interactive. But something like Shadow of the Colussus is a good example of what I mean, more or less.

MMOs are probably the best place to go for long boss fights.....even if they suck.

And dammit, I've been meaning to play SotC. I need to get that when I order my next round of games. Anyway...


Escort Missions: They aren't so bad on paper. The problem is, the person you're escorting is almost always a retard. Not only are they incapable of defending themselves, they're oblivious to the danger around them. If there's a cliff, they'll walk off it. If there's a tank, they'll walk under it. If there's gun turret, they'll walk in front of it. I remember one mission of Final Fantasy Tactics that took me days to pass because the person I was needed to defend mindlessly walked up to the assassins she was supposed to be running away from and just stood there like an idiot while she got killed.

Maybe it's a cheap way of making those missions harder than they really are, but it needs to be fixed. I'm not asking for much, just give my escort a shred of common sense

[Black Atom]

Crash Bandicoot doesn't sell that well. Certainly nowhere near R&C's numbers. They even poke fun at that in their own games.

You sure? Guess I'll take your word at that.


Besides that, damn near every game has item collecting in some form, but that doesn't mean the game revolves around it. There's a difference between picking up an occasional powerup (Viewtiful Joe, Jak and Daxter, Sonic) and an endless stream of fetchquests (Banjo Kazooie, Donkey Kong 64).

Well, in Sonic and Viewtiful Joe, for instance, while the goal of the game is not item collection, its pretty integral to the gameplay. It's possible (albeit difficult) to clear the game without collecting anything.

[Xero Kaiser]

You sure? Guess I'll take your word at that.

Well, they're still making them so they must be doing okay at least. I could check but I just broke one of the glass pans in my parent's house, so I got some evidence to hide

[Leslie Lee III]

Escort Missions: They aren't so bad on paper. The problem is, the person you're escorting is almost always a retard. Not only are they incapable of defending themselves, they're oblivious to the danger around them. If there's a cliff, they'll walk off it. If there's a tank, they'll walk under it. If there's gun turret, they'll walk in front of it. I remember one mission of Final Fantasy Tactics that took me days to pass because the person I was needed to defend mindlessly walked up to the assassins she was supposed to be running away from and just stood there like an idiot while she got killed.

Maybe it's a cheap way of making those missions harder than they really are, but it needs to be fixed. I'm not asking for much, just give my escort a shred of common sense

Killzone for PSP has an awesome feature where you can give commands to your idiot escort in bullet/real time. In general, that's a great feature. The action keeps going at a very slow pace but you can still strategize, choose items, etc by holding a button (the waypoints for your guys are prechosen, but I'm sure on a console or PC game that wouldn't even be necessary).

I could check but I just broke one of the glass pans in my parent's house, so I got some evidence to hide.

Stop talking. You'll give someone an idea for a DS game.

[Xero Kaiser]

Killzone for PSP has an awesome feature where you can give commands to your idiot escort in bullet/real time. In general, that's a great feature. The action keeps going at a very slow pace but you can still strategize, choose items, etc by holding a button (the waypoints for your guys are prechosen, but I'm sure on a console or PC game that wouldn't even be necessary).


yeah, Dead Rising let you give waypoints to the guys you were escorting. Really, simple commands like that are all you need in order to make escort missions tolerable.


Stop talking. You'll give someone an idea for a DS game.

pfft...I refuse to believe that mundane housework hasn't been covered by a DS game already

[Urusai Wrangler]

pfft...I refuse to believe that mundane housework hasn't been covered by a DS game already

Heh, at least there's a portable that's actually getting games these days. :p

[Captain Murphy]

Escort missions? are we forgetting the one game that put escort missions on the map with great control and commands?

Oddworld