Final Fantasy 12

[DF2506]

Well, Final Fantasy 12 is FINALLY coming out this month. Three years ago it was announced and now its finally coming out! I can't wait! I'm very excited about the title. It really does look great.

Its coming out October 31. The Gamestop here is releasing it at Midnight, but I'm definitly going to wait till later in the day to grab my copy. lol.

The new Final Fantasy is set in the world of Ivalice. Thats the same world that was in Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. Although the world does resemble Advance more then the first game, because it'll have Judges, Viera (the rabbit eared race), Bangaa (the lizard race), Moogles, and Chocobos. Though the storyline is going to be very politicaly charged and deal with a massive empire just as the orignal Tactics did. Different empire of course. lol.

The game features a brand-new battle system. Its much more action based this time. While the battle system is more in real time now, there is still a menu. Also, one of my favorite things: NO RANDOM BATTLES. Square has FINALLY got rid of the random battles. This time you see the enemy wandering around the field. :)

I really can't wait for this game. Awesome graphics, an interesting storyline, a cool new battle system, no random battles, and really just the fact that I'll get to play a new Final Fantasy! Its been TOO long.

Looking forward to it. I already have my copy reserved and paid for. So all I have to do is pick it up on the first day.

Also: I just got the regular editon, but for those who are interested, there is a Special Edition. The special edition can only be found at Gamestop and EB and contains an extra disc with behind the scene features. It also comes in a metal case. Pretty cool looking, but it'll cost you $10 more....

Anyway, who else is looking forward to this?

DF2506
" Well, only one more week after this week is over..."

[Xero Kaiser]

The fact that the person behind Vagrant Story and FFT had a hand in FF12 is the only reason I'm even looking in it's direction. I'll grab it eventually, but there are other, more important games I need to get through first

[The Fury]

I have to wait until February. :(

I hate waiting. Hey, at least it means I don't have to buy a PS3 straight away if the main games I want at the moment is out on the PS2.

[Captain Murphy]

Online?

No more randoms sounds good, but just how much detail will be put into the wondering monsters. What console is it for>?

[aukevin]

Online?

No more randoms sounds good, but just how much detail will be put into the wondering monsters. What console is it for>?
yeah I was wondering if this one was online or not? I personally like the offline ones way better.

[Leslie Lee III]

It's for PS2.

It's offline, but plays a lot like a MMORG (right down to the dreaded auto-attack format).

Still great so far though. The graphics are incredible, and the detail of the monsters seems up to par. When you're walking through some parts you'll see HUGE monsters that you have no chance against and have to avoid until you get stronger.

[Joe Zool]

This is the single-player version, not the MMO one, right? I can't keep track, lol.

*edit* and just as I post, the answer appears. :)

[The Fury]

It's for PS2.

It's offline, but plays a lot like a MMORG (right down to the dreaded auto-attack format).

Still great so far though. The graphics are incredible, and the detail of the monsters seems up to par. When you're walking through some parts you'll see HUGE monsters that you have no chance against and have to avoid until you get stronger.
...plays like a MMORG?

What ever happened to the Final Fantasy I used to play (aka all before bloody FF11, online bloody only, ruined my collection)?

[Leslie Lee III]

...plays like a MMORG?

What ever happened to the Final Fantasy I used to play (aka all before bloody FF11, online bloody only, ruined my collection)?

This was made by a different developer than usual.

I feel your pain on that, because I always thought the MMORPG style of gameplay was made to compromise for low bandwidth/bad programming/etc.

However, you'll get over it after the first half hour and find a really solid game in spite of some annoying changes.

[Captain Murphy]

sounds like something im going to have to get, any details on the price range?

[The Fury]

This was made by a different developer than usual.

I feel your pain on that, because I always thought the MMORPG style of gameplay was made to compromise for low bandwidth/bad programming/etc.

However, you'll get over it after the first half hour and find a really solid game in spite of some annoying changes.
There is a reason I don't play online RPGs...prefer to play on my own for one but still there is a difference. Obviously no random battles is actually a loss for me (yes I liked them) finding battles seems pointless to me. Although they work in some titles (Star Ocean 3...kinda).

Oddly enough, it's like the change FFX had, becuase the time thing was goen I felt something was lost, that is why I prefer the battle system on FFX-2 no matter how cheesy the story is.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to get it, I am and most likely I'll love it....I gotta get more RPGs in general. Like playing them, own like FF and a about 2 others only.

[Captain Murphy]

There is a reason I don't play online RPGs...prefer to play on my own for one but still there is a difference. Obviously no random battles is actually a loss for me (yes I liked them) finding battles seems pointless to me. Although they work in some titles (Star Ocean 3...kinda).

Oddly enough, it's like the change FFX had, becuase the time thing was goen I felt something was lost, that is why I prefer the battle system on FFX-2 no matter how cheesy the story is.

That doesn't mean I'm not going to get it, I am and most likely I'll love it....I gotta get more RPGs in general. Like playing them, own like FF and a about 2 others only.

I prefered FFX battle system, it was better, since you could switch in and out of characters when you wanted and you could take your time

[hoffmandu]

You'd think 11 sequels later they'd put this title to rest. Good series, but definitely needs to be buried.

[Leslie Lee III]

Here's how battles work. You have a map with a radar on it and it marks all the enemies with red dots. Enemies wander around doing their own thing for the most part, like animals.

You get close enough to certain enemies and they will attack (weak enemies won't all the time). There are, of course, special circumstances where everyone will be out to kill you.

When you want to attack you hit X to bring up your menu, select attack, select opponent, and THEN your "ready" meter fills up and you'll attack if you're in range of the enemy. You'll continue attacking over and over until you input a different command.

Some enemies you'll find sleeping (usually the big ones that can kill you easily if you are unprepared).

Enemies respawn I believe, but it's rather seemless.

Your health and MP regens automatically slowly, and completely refills when you touch a save crystal.

You only usually directly control your main character and set AI actions for others (these are called Gambits, they're like "If character health <50% cast heal, If character = dead use phoenix down"). However, if you want you can directly control all (although it seems difficult).

Running from battle actually involves running around until the enemy can't get to you. You hold R2 to attempt this (although holding it doesn't make you physically run any faster than normal).

Enemies still drop items (indicated by a 2D item bag that you have to pick up once they're dead). If you kill the same sort of enemy multiple times in a row you have a better chance of getting better items (this is called a combo).

[aukevin]

I prefered FFX battle system, it was better, since you could switch in and out of characters when you wanted and you could take your time
I liked that too. Easier to strategize.

[Ghengis]

You'd think 11 sequels later they'd put this title to rest. Good series, but definitely needs to be buried.

I agree, it should be buried. To me, the Final Fantasy series lost all of its luster after Final Fantasy 7.

[Leslie Lee III]

Yeah, no.

I think they should keep making them as long as people keep enjoying them.

If you wanted different RPGs, Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile, Disgae, Shin Megami Tetwhatever, and Tales of the Abyss all JUST came out.

[Ghengis]

That's my opinion, that's your opinion. Don't tell me otherwise.

[Leslie Lee III]

That's my opinion, that's your opinion. Don't tell me otherwise.

New Rule:

When people are posting opinions under their screen name it is safe to assume (unless explicitly stated otherwise) that they are posting their opinions. There is no need to state or restate this, ever.

[The Fury]

I agree, it should be buried. To me, the Final Fantasy series lost all of its luster after Final Fantasy 7.
Sales means that the series will continue for years yet. It's the most famous and best selling RPG series ever. Nearly everyone knows about it.

What is a factor is that for most the world FF7 was the first, Europe never had the release of FF6.

Of course there are more then enough RPGs and Action/RPGs out there to suit most tastes.

[Leslie Lee III]

And let me say, all those recent RPGs that came out, I have them all. FXII, even with my disagreements with the MMORPG stuff, pushed them all to the bottom of the pile (even Valkyrie Profile which I was dying for). It's an awesome game so far. There's no reason for them to end the series when it's going strong. I thought FFVIII and FFXI were garbage, but those are isolated games. FF, more than almost any other series, is a new game attempt every time out. Final Fantasy is more of a brand name than a continuing series of games, so there's no real reason to end it. They still change and innovate within the brand name.

[Serik]

Here's a Penny Arcade comic about how FFXII isn't a real RPG because the game does everything for you hehe

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060908.jpg

I love the stories, music, and setting of the FF games but honestly, it's like I'm playing some interactive storybook more than a true and true videogame.

[MakeshiftHero]

There's no reason for them to end the series when it's going strong..... FF, more than almost any other series, is a new game attempt every time out. Final Fantasy is more of a brand name than a continuing series of games, so there's no real reason to end it. They still change and innovate within the brand name.
I could not agree more. All the FF is, is a brand name, which is the only reason why the numbering system works because none of them are set one after another cause they all take place in different times and locations with diff chars. Numbering the games 1-12 is just the same as saying that Dr. Pepper has a number of different tastes and kinds of drinks: Dr. Pep w/ cherry, Dr. Pep w/ vanillia, Dr. Pep w/ cherry vanillia, Dr. Pep w/ berries and cream, Dr. Pep w/ real sugar. I can see FF making as many games at least up to the big #20. They have a large number of fans all over the world and the game (to me) have great stories and ASTONISHING cg scenes.

[metr0man]

I'm really psyched about this.

the playstation era final fantasy games are hands down my favorite games (except FF9, which is merely ok, too old-school).
I'm slightly concerned about 12's battle system, FFX was one of the few times I really enjoyed turn based fighting instead of tolerating it, they added some nice strategic elements. now they've changed it completely, but we'll see. I think I'll start out in "wait" mode and manually control all the characters, and only start using gambits and such if it feels natural.

[Xero Kaiser]

I agree, it should be buried. To me, the Final Fantasy series lost all of its luster after Final Fantasy 7.

There's no sane reason to kill a series that , unlike most series, goes through regular overhauls (avoiding repetition) and has a large fanbase.

Not everything needs to die if it doesn't please you specifically

[Titan76]

Here's how battles work. You have a map with a radar on it and it marks all the enemies with red dots. Enemies wander around doing their own thing for the most part, like animals.

You get close enough to certain enemies and they will attack (weak enemies won't all the time). There are, of course, special circumstances where everyone will be out to kill you.

When you want to attack you hit X to bring up your menu, select attack, select opponent, and THEN your "ready" meter fills up and you'll attack if you're in range of the enemy. You'll continue attacking over and over until you input a different command.

Some enemies you'll find sleeping (usually the big ones that can kill you easily if you are unprepared).

Enemies respawn I believe, but it's rather seemless.

Your health and MP regens automatically slowly, and completely refills when you touch a save crystal.

You only usually directly control your main character and set AI actions for others (these are called Gambits, they're like "If character health <50% cast heal, If character = dead use phoenix down"). However, if you want you can directly control all (although it seems difficult).

Running from battle actually involves running around until the enemy can't get to you. You hold R2 to attempt this (although holding it doesn't make you physically run any faster than normal).

Enemies still drop items (indicated by a 2D item bag that you have to pick up once they're dead). If you kill the same sort of enemy multiple times in a row you have a better chance of getting better items (this is called a combo).
I hope this is easier then it sounds. I kinda wish they would have stick to either FFX or FFX-2's battle system. Both were very good and real easy to use.

[Leslie Lee III]

I hope this is easier then it sounds. I kinda wish they would have stick to either FFX or FFX-2's battle system. Both were very good and real easy to use.

It's not difficult at all, just different.

What is a hassle is the license board. You find some new shiny armor or sword, you get ready to equip it, then the game tells you to go toss yourself because you don't have a license for it yet.

Granted, the use of licenses gives you the ability to customize characters with a precise level of detail, but it seems like a decent level of customization could have been accomplished without making the licenses so specific. Instead of "Buy this license to become a ninja and use all light swords and light armor" it's like, "Buy this license in order to use Mithril Sword and the Mythril Sword, buy another to use a Steel Sword, and another to use a Katana." Plus, getting enough points to buy a license really takes a while and once you spend it, it's gone. Further the licenses you buy determine what licenses you can buy next, so you end up almost scared to buy licenses early on because you don't know what items you may end up getting in the near future.

[titanfan]

I hope this is easier then it sounds. I kinda wish they would have stick to either FFX or FFX-2's battle system. Both were very good and real easy to use.

When I first played the demo, I was like "WTF? This is awful!" But within 5-10 minutes, you get used to it.

It's different, but I still thought it was fun. In wait mode, it plays almost like a real RPG.

[Captain Murphy]

It's not difficult at all, just different.

What is a hassle is the license board. You find some new shiny armor or sword, you get ready to equip it, then the game tells you to go toss yourself because you don't have a license for it yet.

Granted, the use of licenses gives you the ability to customize characters with a precise level of detail, but it seems like a decent level of customization could have been accomplished without making the licenses so specific. Instead of "Buy this license to become a ninja and use all light swords and light armor" it's like, "Buy this license in order to use Mithril Sword and the Mythril Sword, buy another to use a Steel Sword, and another to use a Katana." Plus, getting enough points to buy a license really takes a while and once you spend it, it's gone. Further the licenses you buy determine what licenses you can buy next, so you end up almost scared to buy licenses early on because you don't know what items you may end up getting in the near future.

That sounds awful, say you have two licences' are they both active or is only one active at a time?

[Jmacq1]

Sounds a lot like "Weapon Proficiencies" from DnD.

Basically, you have to choose what kinds of weapons that you want your characters to wield.

But I'd imagine once you buy a license, they all remain "active" (allowing you to use any weapon of that type for the rest of the game).

[Leslie Lee III]

Sounds a lot like "Weapon Proficiencies" from DnD.

Basically, you have to choose what kinds of weapons that you want your characters to wield.

But I'd imagine once you buy a license, they all remain "active" (allowing you to use any weapon of that type for the rest of the game).

While the licenses always stay active, it is NOT the case that you are allowed to use "any weapon of that type for the rest of the game." Each license only applies to 2 or 3 specific weapons/armor, not an entire class of. Maybe there just aren't that many weapons and armor in the game (I haven't gotten far enough to see exactly), but buying a license to use 2 specific shields seems way too detailed to me.

[MaxofSteel]

I'm looking foreward to this game for sure, but for some reason I just don't find this new crew of characters all that interesting. That Vaan dude with his overly-femme face really irks me out.

Maybe I should just hold my tongue until I play it.

[Daemon]

Sales means that the series will continue for years yet. It's the most famous and best selling RPG series ever. Nearly everyone knows about it.



I think that actually goes to Dragon Quest/Warrior as ISTR that there is an actual law in japan that they're not allowed to release a DQ game during the week or else most of the work/school force takes off and nothing gets done.

But that said yea games comming out tomarrow, I'm all psyched up....guess im going to be missing a few raids in WoW over the next couple of weeks.

[MakeshiftHero]

If anyone got preordered the game from Gamestop or EB Games it comes out tonight (monday) at midnight. I got a call from their machines saying that its going to be released tonight. I dunno if thats just where I am or if all the stores are doing it.

[metr0man]

Circuit City is selling it for 38 bucks, the cheapest I've seen it.

[Jmacq1]

If anyone got preordered the game from Gamestop or EB Games it comes out tonight (monday) at midnight. I got a call from their machines saying that its going to be released tonight. I dunno if thats just where I am or if all the stores are doing it.

Definitely not being done everywere. My message said "Will be out tomorrow morning".

I'll be leaving work early to pick it up after lunch (oh how I love my flexible work schedule).

[Lester C.]

I have no desire to ban the rules by plugging a particular store to purchase this game so I'm just going to advise you guys to shop around. I've seen wildly differing prices for this game, so make sure you save the most amount of money you can.

[Donald M.]

I picked up my copy at GameStop as I had $40 in store credit burning a hole in my pocket. I was lucky to get a copy. I'm getting more and more frustrated with that particular chain's obsession with preorders and am not likely to buy many games from them in the future.

Not popular ones anyway.

It doesn't make sense to me that they only order a few copies of a popular and sure to sell game like FFXII on top of what they need for preorders when I can walk into any Best Buy or Circuit City and see a couple of dozen copies just sitting on the shelf.

Damn them anyway.

[Donald M.]

As to the game itself, only been playing for a couple of hours but it's incredible.

I love the new combat system.

Love it or hate it, the Final Fantasy franchise truly is the pinnacle of console role-playing.

[yeoman]

Okay, I'm a couple hours in:

Ah Baltheir, you are the only thing that makes the horrible, horrible gameplay worth it.

Seriously. Hate the gameplay. With the intensity of a million suns. Hate even more getting one shotted by random badguys because they happen to be in the area I need to walk through and I had no way of knowing they'd do so.

And, while you can theoretically take control of all the characters in combat, it's time consuming and annoying. So, really, the game does, in fact, just play itself.

But Baltheir.. oh Baltheir, you verge of Auron levels of awsome.

[MakeshiftHero]

Love it or hate it, the Final Fantasy franchise truly is the pinnacle of console role-playing.
AMEN. Now I just have to beat that damn spider robot in the underground and I'll be happy.

[Lester C.]

Okay, I'm a couple hours in:

Ah Baltheir, you are the only thing that makes the horrible, horrible gameplay worth it.

Seriously. Hate the gameplay. With the intensity of a million suns. Hate even more getting one shotted by random badguys because they happen to be in the area I need to walk through and I had no way of knowing they'd do so.

And, while you can theoretically take control of all the characters in combat, it's time consuming and annoying. So, really, the game does, in fact, just play itself.

But Baltheir.. oh Baltheir, you verge of Auron levels of awsome.
If by gameplay you mean battles you can change it to wait mode and the game becames almost like a tradional rpg. As least that was the case with the demo. I bought the game on my way to work so I wont be playing untill tomarrow.

[Leslie Lee III]

I picked up my copy at GameStop as I had $40 in store credit burning a hole in my pocket. I was lucky to get a copy. I'm getting more and more frustrated with that particular chain's obsession with preorders and am not likely to buy many games from them in the future.

Not popular ones anyway.

It doesn't make sense to me that they only order a few copies of a popular and sure to sell game like FFXII on top of what they need for preorders when I can walk into any Best Buy or Circuit City and see a couple of dozen copies just sitting on the shelf.

Damn them anyway.

Best Buy and Circuit City aren't trying to make money off of Video Games last I heard. They're making money off of big purchases, with games and DVDs there to lure you into the store. I mean, it's fairly easy to look at a Best Buy and a Gamestop and see some massive differences. I don't know if it's fair to judge Gamestop on not matching the stock of a store 50 times it's size.

[Lester C.]

Best Buy and Circuit City aren't trying to make money off of Video Games last I heard. They're making money off of big purchases, with games and DVDs there to lure you into the store. I mean, it's fairly easy to look at a Best Buy and a Gamestop and see some massive differences. I don't know if it's fair to judge Gamestop on not matching the stock of a store 50 times it's size.
The flip side is that the game section of Best Buy and Circuit city is small. If you are into mainstream titles then its no problem, but if you are into niche games like rpgs then you have to go to a place like EB games. Also prices come down much more slowly at a Best Buy and they have no used games.

[yeoman]

If by gameplay you mean battles you can change it to wait mode and the game becames almost like a tradional rpg. As least that was the case with the demo. I bought the game on my way to work so I wont be playing untill tomarrow.

Anyone know how to send it to wait mode? The game itself didn't say. Guess I'll check the manual.

[Leslie Lee III]

You can put it in wait mode in options. If I'm correct, it defaults to wait mode anyway.

It does not, at all, make it like a traditional RPG. It just "pauses" when using the menu, like KOTOR.

[Serik]

I picked up my copy at GameStop as I had $40 in store credit burning a hole in my pocket. I was lucky to get a copy. I'm getting more and more frustrated with that particular chain's obsession with preorders and am not likely to buy many games from them in the future.

Not popular ones anyway.

It doesn't make sense to me that they only order a few copies of a popular and sure to sell game like FFXII on top of what they need for preorders when I can walk into any Best Buy or Circuit City and see a couple of dozen copies just sitting on the shelf.

Damn them anyway.

I never pre-order because it gives the company months to invest my money and in effect make more money off of me; they don't need a cash advance. But I ALWAYS find cheaper prices online so I haven't purchased from a brick-and-mortar store in almost 3 years.

[yeoman]

You can put it in wait mode in options. If I'm correct, it defaults to wait mode anyway.

It does not, at all, make it like a traditional RPG. It just "pauses" when using the menu, like KOTOR.


Yeah... that's what it does. I am, most certainly, not "down" with this. At all.

As Penny Arcade put it, I'm sure there are gamers who will like this. But it's not for me. It's not why I bought the other installments of the FF series. Heck, if it wasn't titled Final Fantasy, I might be okay with this. But it is. So I'm not.

Ah, but at least I have you, Belthier. You are like Setzer combined with Jack Sparrow and James Kirk. You are all that is awsome and it is for you I put up with the gameplay.

Did I mention I like Belthier? :D

[metr0man]

Anyone know how to send it to wait mode? The game itself didn't say. Guess I'll check the manual.

Go into the Menu and choose Config. It'll be one of the first few options.

I like active mode for run of the mill wandering baddies, and wait mode for tougher ones that require strategy and thought. I do wish there was a quicker way to switch between the two, but that's here nor there.

[MakeshiftHero]

They really need to put in another battle mode so you can make it turn based like all the other games. I LOVED the battle mode in FFX cause you got to see who was going to be able to make a move for just about the whole battle.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

I'm dissapointed in the new battle system. Not because it's bad, I think it works fine. But it's not what I wanted out of a new FF game. I wanted traditional turn-based. I wanted something that felt like the first ten games in the series, and not a more MMORPG feel. I hate that all you basically have to do is sit there and watch your whole party hack away without having to input any commands at all, and I hate how akward it is to issue commands to an entire party. The game pretty much expects you to just let the computer do all the work, and in a series that was already becoming very non-interactive, it just seems like too much for me.

But I do like the skill/magic/etc system, and the characters/plot are well-done. The voice acting is about a million times better than FFX. It's still a quality game...but I spent five years waiting for a true FF to come back, waiting through spinoffs and sequels and remakes and online-only crap, and I didn't really get it.

I pray that FFXIII gives us what this game didn't, as it's one of the only reasons I'll be getting a PS3.

[yeoman]

I'm dissapointed in the new battle system. Not because it's bad, I think it works fine. But it's not what I wanted out of a new FF game. I wanted traditional turn-based. I wanted something that felt like the first ten games in the series, and not a more MMORPG feel. I hate that all you basically have to do is sit there and watch your whole party hack away without having to input any commands at all, and I hate how akward it is to issue commands to an entire party. The game pretty much expects you to just let the computer do all the work, and in a series that was already becoming very non-interactive, it just seems like too much for me.

But I do like the skill/magic/etc system, and the characters/plot are well-done. The voice acting is about a million times better than FFX. It's still a quality game...but I spent five years waiting for a true FF to come back, waiting through spinoffs and sequels and remakes and online-only crap, and I didn't really get it.

I also notice we're back to the lack of Dedicated Spell Casters. Sigh. And IX and X were making such headway into characters having fairly unique abilities again.

I pray that FFXIII gives us what this game didn't, as it's one of the only reasons I'll be getting a PS3.

I wouldn't bet on it. From what I've seen once Square gets the idea in their head that their plan is brillant, they keep going dispite any and all evidence ot the contrary..

[MakeshiftHero]

But I do like the skill/magic/etc system,

I pray that FFXIII gives us what this game didn't, as it's one of the only reasons I'll be getting a PS3.
I'm not a big fan of the new upgrade system at ALL, I really liked it when they would pretty much tell you who was a caster and who was a fighter, that way you could level them up the way they're supposed to be and add stats that would help their class out. Now I have no idea what to do when to lvl up the characters and it makes it worse when I don't know what way to go cause all the spaces have question marks!

FFX SPHERE GRID I MISS YOU AND AM LOST WITH OUT YOU!!!!:(

as for FFXIII i believe that it has the same kind of fighting sys as FFXII, you can read up on it at IGN.

FF TURN BASED FIGHTING I MISS YOU TOO!!!:(

[Xero Kaiser]

I wanted traditional turn-based. I wanted something that felt like the first ten games in the series,

So what, the series should never evolve? Though, I'm still not sure what to make of the battle system, I sure as hell don't want the same crap I was playing 15 years ago.

[Jmacq1]

Admittedly, I've only played for a couple hours so far, but...I kinda dig it. From all the doom and gloom here I was expecting that the battle system was going to ruin it for me, but thus far I'm finding it interesting. Different certainly, but interesting. Not really the high point of the game, but not a "game killer" either.

The characters (so far) seem excellent. I mean...Vaan doesn't seem like they typical whiny protagonist, which is a plus. Basch actually seems like a "manly man" and I haven't met Balthier yet, but I'm looking forward to it. And of course the art design is spectacular, and so far the music is good (if unobtrusive) despite the lack of Uematsu. And what little I've seen of the storyline thus far looks quite good as well. They certainly start "big", that's for sure.

As for the license board, I'm sure there's already places online where you can download what the "complete" board looks like. I broke down and bought the strategy guide myself, but the good news is that once you do know how the board plays out, it's not hard at all to "customize" or "specialize" your characters to particular roles. It's just as versatile (if not more so) than the sphere grid from FF X.

All in all my first impression stands at about 9/10. We'll see how it holds up as I get further into the game.

[Leslie Lee III]

So what, the series should never evolve? Though, I'm still not sure what to make of the battle system, I sure as hell don't want the same crap I was playing 15 years ago.

I'd rather them stay the same than take a step back. Clearly, the MMORPG system is a step back. It doesn't kill the game at all, but it's going in the wrong direction. RPG's should be trying to be more interactive, not less. Games like Shadow Hearts, Magna Carta, and VP2 have made steps towards this. I'm a bit surprised FFXII got caught up in the MMORPG hype yet again.

[metr0man]

I haven't formed a party, just playing with Vaan but I'm digging the battle system so far. It makes level grinding less tedious. Switch to "wait" mode, it's not different at all than the ATB systems of FF7 and such.

[Leslie Lee III]

I haven't formed a party, just playing with Vaan but I'm digging the battle system so far. It makes level grinding less tedious. Switch to "wait" mode, it's not different at all than the ATB systems of FF7 and such.

When you form a party you'll see why it is completely different from FF7 and such. You can only really manage one character, and if try more the only game it will remind you of is KOTOR.

[Jmacq1]

When you form a party you'll see why it is completely different from FF7 and such. You can only really manage one character, and if try more the only game it will remind you of is KOTOR.

That's not necessarily a bad/negative comparison though, given that a lot of people really enjoyed KOTOR. ;)

[Astonishing X-Fan]

"So what, the series should never evolve? Though, I'm still not sure what to make of the battle system, I sure as hell don't want the same crap I was playing 15 years ago."

Oh please. The series WAS evolving. You can keep the same basics and still innovate. Look at FFX.

For ten games, they kept the same basic battle system, and improved it as time went on. Now all of a sudden they throw it all out the window and make the game a MMORPG without the MMO.

[Leslie Lee III]

Now remember this game was developed by a different team (hence the more mature storyline, themes and designs). The next FF will be more traditional.

[Jmacq1]

Now remember this game was developed by a different team (hence the more mature storyline, themes and designs). The next FF will be more traditional.

Uhm....have you seen the pictures and early press from FF XIII?

I'm thinking "no" because if so, you'd realize that statement is completely incorrect. By all accounts they're making it much more "action-oriented."

I highly doubt it's going to go back to "turn based battle systems" and "automatically specialized characters".

[titanfan]

I wouldn't bet on it. From what I've seen once Square gets the idea in their head that their plan is brillant, they keep going dispite any and all evidence ot the contrary..

To be fair, in order to meet their release dates, they need to be working several games ahead. I think they learned from FFXI's less than stellar success, but it's too late to do anything about it when the next 2-3 games are already being developed.

I think this battle system is a step back--but I'm not having any problems switching back and forth between characters and inputting everyone's actions during a fight. I have all gambits off and stay in active mode, I'm finding that's the most fun for me.

I really hate the FF8-like lack of total customization--almost every character is the same. To me, part of what makes a good RPG character is their unique abilities and stuff that they can do.

[yeoman]

I haven't formed a party, just playing with Vaan but I'm digging the battle system so far. It makes level grinding less tedious. Switch to "wait" mode, it's not different at all than the ATB systems of FF7 and such.

Except, ya know, that the computer still plays the rest of your crew for you. And due to the fact that the battle system was set up for the use of Gambits, controlling your entire party manually is a pain in the ass.

Not ot mention they don't even give you all the gambits to start. You have to frggin' buy or find them.

[yeoman]

So what, the series should never evolve? Though, I'm still not sure what to make of the battle system, I sure as hell don't want the same crap I was playing 15 years ago.


There's a point at which it's not evolution but becomes something entirely different. The game system had changed enourmously since the first game.

[yeoman]

Now remember this game was developed by a different team (hence the more mature storyline, themes and designs).

Yes, because the FF series was known for immaturity. Storylines were never complex at all.


The next FF will be more traditional.

Then why call it Final Fantasy to begin with?

[Jmacq1]

And really, it's not like "characters that aren't inherently specialized" isn't a long-standing FF Tradition. They've had the "job system" as far back as FF III, I believe. And if you wanted to, you could play with it to the point that everyone was capable of everything, if you really wanted to.

Same deal with the "license board" or the "sphere grid". If you put the effort in, you can either customize your characters (like I plan to) or make them all the same. The difference is that the choice is in the hands of the player, not decided by the coders of the game.

[Shades0077]

I haven't picked it up yet, and probably won't until at least Christmas at the earliest.

From what it sounds like though, the battle system is similar to the Star Ocean series of games, which I really enjoyed. For anyone who has played both, does that sound about right?

[titanfan]

Yes, it's similar to Star Ocean. (Which I also loved *other* than the battle system. :) )

[Xero Kaiser]

There's a point at which it's not evolution but becomes something entirely different. The game system had changed enourmously since the first game.

Welcome to FF7. No FF game since then has played like the 8 or 16 bit versions, other than 9. Everything from the basic battle system, to magic, to the class system, to summons, to the settings, to the genre has undergone a dramatic change at some point or another. FF has a reputation for major changes. I find it hard to believe that anyone could only now be realizing that

[Daemon]

yea im liking it, the voices arn't grating like in FF10 was as much but i do hate that unless I rewrite the gambits ever time I enter a new zone or else they act like dumbasses.

but then again I play MMO's so playing with Dumbasses is like the norm.

[Lester C.]

Traditional turn based rpgs are going extinct. I don't like it as I grew up playing the original Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior games but that just the way the medium has evolved over the past years to attract a more mainstream audience.

[yeoman]

Welcome to FF7. No FF game since then has played like the 8 or 16 bit versions, other than 9. Everything from the basic battle system, to magic, to the class system, to summons, to the settings, to the genre has undergone a dramatic change at some point or another. FF has a reputation for major changes. I find it hard to believe that anyone could only now be realizing that


The series has few constants: Magic. Guy named Cid. Chocobo. Turn based combat.

Okay, Chocobo's weren't in *every* game. But have since they showed, so I'll count them. And this isn't really any form of combat. It's just the game playing itself, and you get to occasionally move the characters from fight to fight and watch some pretty movies sometimes.

Really, why not get rid of magic entirely. Just have it be low fantasy. Or, hey, get rid of the Fantasy elements all together. It could be set in the future of Earth, and have no magic, and no Chocobos.

And then we're back to the bottomless well of suck that was Spirits Within. Now in "game" form!

[MakeshiftHero]

And then we're back to the bottomless well of suck that was Spirits Within. Now in "game" form!
Other than the graphics that movie blew and was no where close to what any of the final fantasy games are like.

[Jmacq1]

Except they had "Cid". But that was it. ;)

[yeoman]

Other than the graphics that movie blew and was no where close to what any of the final fantasy games are like.


Which is exactly my point. If it's not going to have anythign to do with Final Fantasy, why call it such.

Personally, I aLso don't see how they get away calling this Ivalice (This or Tactics Advance either). It doesn't really bear any resmblance to what we say in Tactics.

[Jmacq1]

Which is exactly my point. If it's not going to have anythign to do with Final Fantasy, why call it such.

Personally, I aLso don't see how they get away calling this Ivalice (This or Tactics Advance either). It doesn't really bear any resmblance to what we say in Tactics.

I think you might be missing the aspect where they re-use names for different places/people/items/etc...

I'd just say "Ivalice" is becoming a "default" setting for FF or at least another of the "Carryover" elements...but that doesn't mean that each time it's used that it's the same place. Just like Cid isn't the same Cid in every sequel, etc...etc...

The FF series has only done two direct sequels (FF X-2, and FF VII: Dirge of Cerebus). The mainline games have always been unconnected to each other prior to that, save for "shared elements". I doubt that the Ivalice we saw in the other games was ever intended to be the "same" Ivalice.

So far this FF has:

Chocobos
Cid
Espers/summoned monsters
The various forms of magic/spellnames/etc...
Various returning weapon names
Airships
Crystals
Various returning monster types
Shared musical cues
Moogles

Or in other words, it's every bit as "Final Fantasy" as every other "Final Fantasy" game that's come out. Just because they changed the battle system doesn't mean it stopped being "Final Fantasy". Heck, by your reasoning there shouldn't have been any "Final Fantasy" after #1 (which...would make sense given the title, but I digress).

I do find it interesting though that the early review I read has thus far been dead on. They gave it a very high rating, but said "The Battle System is something that longtime FF Fans are either going to love or hate."

[yeoman]

I think you might be missing the aspect where they re-use names for different places/people/items/etc...

I'd just say "Ivalice" is becoming a "default" setting for FF or at least another of the "Carryover" elements...but that doesn't mean that each time it's used that it's the same place. Just like Cid isn't the same Cid in every sequel, etc...etc...

The FF series has only done two direct sequels (FF X-2, and FF VII: Dirge of Cerebus). The mainline games have always been unconnected to each other prior to that, save for "shared elements". I doubt that the Ivalice we saw in the other games was ever intended to be the "same" Ivalice.

So far this FF has:

Chocobos
Cid
Espers/summoned monsters
The various forms of magic/spellnames/etc...
Various returning weapon names
Airships
Crystals
Various returning monster types
Shared musical cues
Moogles

Or in other words, it's every bit as "Final Fantasy" as every other "Final Fantasy" game that's come out. Just because they changed the battle system doesn't mean it stopped being "Final Fantasy". Heck, by your reasoning there shouldn't have been any "Final Fantasy" after #1 (which...would make sense given the title, but I digress).

I do find it interesting though that the early review I read has thus far been dead on. They gave it a very high rating, but said "The Battle System is something that longtime FF Fans are either going to love or hate."

Your list is missing that up until now every FF game also had random turn based battles.

Oh, and some concept of the idea of level appropriate encounters.

[Jmacq1]

Your list is missing that up until now every FF game also had random turn based battles.

Oh, and some concept of the idea of level appropriate encounters.

Sure they have, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a "tradition" the way everything else is. The gameplay of the FF series has varied dramatically from game-to-game. They've tweaked their "turn based system" about as much as they can tweak it. This is just the next step in that evolution.

Hey, it's fine to not like the changes. A lot of people have trouble adjusting to that kind of thing. But I disagree with your notion that it's "not a Final Fantasy game" because they took risks and made changes to the gameplay. To me "Final Fantasy" is more about themes, character, storyline, and artistic elements than it is about which buttons you have to push (or don't have to push) and when.

Nevermind that the game gives you the means to determine whether you're about to have a "level appropriate encounter" or not (Hint: Wear a Bangle or use "Libra"). Just because you refuse to exploit those means doesn't mean its' the fault of the game designers.

[Daemon]

Isnt FF12 set in the same world as FFT:A?

hence the judges, hunters guild, vierra and all those other unique monster races?

So this is also a sequal too.

[yeoman]

Sure they have, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a "tradition" the way everything else is. The gameplay of the FF series has varied dramatically from game-to-game. They've tweaked their "turn based system" about as much as they can tweak it. This is just the next step in that evolution.

Hey, it's fine to not like the changes. A lot of people have trouble adjusting to that kind of thing. But I disagree with your notion that it's "not a Final Fantasy game" because they took risks and made changes to the gameplay. To me "Final Fantasy" is more about themes, character, storyline, and artistic elements than it is about which buttons you have to push (or don't have to push) and when.

So, despite bein gin every single game, the core of the combat engine isn't a tradition?

Uh, no.

Nevermind that the game gives you the means to determine whether you're about to have a "level appropriate encounter" or not (Hint: Wear a Bangle or use "Libra"). Just because you refuse to exploit those means doesn't mean its' the fault of the game designers.

A) Why is the name of all that's holy should I have to spend license points or take up an accessory slot just to see if some wandering monster is going to one shot me? Areas should have random encounters appropriate to the level that you're going to go through them.

B) Having played a game in this series before, I'm going to assume these things are the equivilent of "Scan" and that I only need them if I want to see detailed information. Not whether a RANDOM GORRAMN MOSTER IS GOING TO ONE SHOT ME.

C) I'm also talking about the hunting system, where you're sent after stuff waaaaaaaaaaay to early for you to really fight them without leveling up a lot.

[Lester C.]

Isnt FF12 set in the same world as FFT:A?

hence the judges, hunters guild, vierra and all those other unique monster races?

So this is also a sequal too.
Yes and no. This game does take place in the world of Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy advance. However it's in a different empire that has little to do with the previous empires of Ivalice we saw in past games.

[El Santo]

Which is exactly my point. If it's not going to have anythign to do with Final Fantasy, why call it such.

Personally, I aLso don't see how they get away calling this Ivalice (This or Tactics Advance either). It doesn't really bear any resmblance to what we say in Tactics.
My theory about FFTA and FF12 is that this is pre-St. Ajora Ivalice. In FFT, if you did the "send away" sidequests, your guys kept finding evidence of an older, more advanced civilization and far-off lands. And of course, when you get Mustadio, he's exploring some kind of inoperative airship.

I figure that at some point between FF12 and FFT, probably around the time the St. Ajora stuff went down, there was some kind of giant war/cataclysm (didn't FFT mention that something like this happened?) that drove off or killed the Viera and Bangaa. The Judges, likewise, were part of the older civilization, and just never carried over to the Ivalice of FFT. Add in the fact that FFT took place (mostly) in the more European area of Ivalice, while FF12 and FFTA look more desert/Middle Eastern, and it starts to make more sense.

[El Santo]

Yes and no. This game does take place in the world of Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy advance. However it's in a different empire that has little to do with the previous empires of Ivalice we saw in past games.

Oddly enough the armor designs (and calling humans "humes") remind me more of Vana'Diel than Ivalice.

Of course, I'm probably the only person here who wouldn't mind seeing a single-player game set in the world of FF11

[Xero Kaiser]

Your list is missing that up until now every FF game also had random turn based battles.

FF11 didn't.

Besides, the battles are still turn-based. That doesn't mean it has to be the same as the older games. FF1-6, FF7-9, FFX, FFX-2 and FF11 all had turn based battle systems that played differently. Why is yet another revamp of the battle system only now surprising you?

It could be set in the future of Earth, and have no magic, and no Chocobos.

Other than the magic thing, you just described FF8

[yeoman]

FF11 didn't.

A game that's a total mystery to me as to my they included it in the numbered series.

Besides, the battles are still turn-based. That doesn't mean it has to be the same as the older games. FF1-6, FF7-9, FFX, FFX-2 and FF11 all had turn based battle systems that played differently. Why is yet another revamp of the battle system only now surprising you?

Is it really that hard for so many people to understand that, while the systems were different, all were turn based? Every. Damn. One.



Other than the magic thing, you just described FF8

Except for being set on Earth. Or lacking magic. Or lacking Chocobos. Really, nothing like I just described.

And, really, given 8 is probably the weakest in the series, it wouldn't prove much even if you were right.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Yeah, FFX and FFV had differences between them, but it was the same CORE gameplay.

For ten games, it was the SAME CORE GAMEPLAY.

Now, it is NOT.

How people can't understand that boggles my mind.

[Lester C.]

I love this game. Everthing about it, with the exception of the license system, is just about perfect. Those that said it was dark were not kidding. I never read the instruction manuel for fear of spoilers and let just say the person who I thought was the main character was not the main character. I'm less than an hour in and I had so many oh **** moments. This game is well wroth your time.

[Lester C.]

Yeah, FFX and FFV had differences between them, but it was the same CORE gameplay.

For ten games, it was the SAME CORE GAMEPLAY.

Now, it is NOT.

How people can't understand that boggles my mind.
The era of the traditional turn based RPG is over. Developers got tired of potential fans stating that they would have loved the game if it wasn't for the combat system. I'm not happy about it, but there have been other advances made that I am happy about like story lines oriented for an adult rather than a twelve year old.

[Xero Kaiser]

Is it really that hard for so many people to understand that, while the systems were different, all were turn based? Every. Damn. One.

What's your point? So is FF12. It's a modifed version of the ATB system we've been seeing since Chrono Trigger. When did this become realtime? Devil May Cry has a realtime battle system, Ninja Gaiden has a realtime battle system, this does not. It may not be a traditional turn-based system, but other than FF10, no FF game has been since for the past 12 years or so.

[yeoman]

What's your point? So is FF12. It's a modifed version of the ATB system we've been seeing since Chrono Trigger. When did this become realtime? Devil May Cry has a realtime battle system, Ninja Gaiden has a realtime battle system, this does not. It may not be a traditional turn-based system, but other than FF10, no FF game has been since for the past 12 years or so.


Chrono Trigger isn't Final Fantasy. Further more, Chrono Trigger had a battle system set up for easy manual control of your entire group. This does not.

[Lester C.]

Yeoman if you haven't bought it allready you should try Dragon Quest 8. It's new school graphics combined with old school storytelling and gameplay. I think it will be more your cup of tea than Final Fantasy 12.

[metr0man]

I'm confused, wasn't FF7 also active time based? you enter your command and you wait until your bar fills up, then your character acts?

Anyways, seamless battles on the normal world screen is great and should remain. I suppose they could add an "auto pop up" feature to the menu when your character finishes his/her action instead of pushing a button to make it come up, to make it seem more familiar. Then it would essentially be the same as the old system (if you set it that way).

[yeoman]

Yeoman if you haven't bought it allready you should try Dragon Quest 8. It's new school graphics combined with old school storytelling and gameplay. I think it will be more your cup of tea than Final Fantasy 12.


Tried it. Found the first hour boring. Put it down and never looked back.

I continue to play FF12 only for the awsomeness of half of the cast. If only they were in a story that wasn't a boring politcal drama and had unique class abilities.

[MaxofSteel]

Tried it. Found the first hour boring. Put it down and never looked back.

I continue to play FF12 only for the awsomeness of half of the cast. If only they were in a story that wasn't a boring politcal drama and had unique class abilities.

It's a shame you weren't into DQ8. Its a really fun and interesting game. The first few hours is the slowest, but thats common among most RPGs.

Anyhow i just picked up FF12 yesterday and I agree about the political heaviness. Overall a great game tho.

[LordKaos]

8 hrs in and I love it so far. The battle system took some getting use to but I'm fine with it. The only thing that needs work, so far, is the license board. I hope that random battle don't come back. I can finally explore an area without being assaulted with a thousand battles. I'll be playing this game over and over again for a long time.

[AllisterH]

I'm level 10 and have just left Basch in the city along with Balthier and Fran and I'm loving it so far. I'm glad the story doesn't so far seem to revolve around Vaan and I actually like Vaan unlike say Tidus.

Good level of difficulty so far as when I did the run through the dungeon/sewer and had to kill those battery mimics, I had to reload twice and actually set up a proper strategy. I like also the direction as so far, I know what I need to do but the city is so expansive, and the Monster Hunt means I don't feel railroaded along.

Only problem I have (and its a small problem) is that like Yeoman, I wish there was more of an influence of the character on the abilities. I don't want it so that only character X can cast say Cure, but I would prefer it so that Fran is better at it than say Basch even if there license board is filled out exactly the same. Really, the only affect the characters have on abilities so far is the stats.

What I would have liked is that the cost for each square be different for each character. Fran for example getting a discount on magic while Balthier getting a dicount on techs and Basch a discount on say swords and heavy armour, etc. It wouldn't have pigeonholed you into a specfic template but would have allowed for the character to truly be different from another.

I love the battle system AND the Gambit system as it allows me to avoid those random battles and most importantly, when I was running/escaping, you don't waste time with a random battle (the damn charge on the battery got to under 10% so I literally ran the entire way to the Mimic Queen, those spectres are TOUGH).

I also like the loot system instead of money as it makes it seem more "real". Never could understand why say a wolf would be carrying around gold.

Only gripe I truly have is the breakdown of the license board with regard to weapons. I need a spearate license to use a higher quality bow even if I have a license for bows already? WHY?

Small change I would have is so that if you're gambits are off, the system would automaitcally prompt you to enter a command as right now, while you can queue up actions (seems to be a limit of only three....)unless you're paying attention you can miss out that one of your party members is waiting for your command. Would be really helpful in those tough boss battles although the gambit system seems to be pretty good so far.

License everyone should get.
- At least to level 3 in white magic.
- Libra (scan), Steal and charge are also IMO must haves.

[Lester C.]

Tried it. Found the first hour boring. Put it down and never looked back.

I continue to play FF12 only for the awsomeness of half of the cast. If only they were in a story that wasn't a boring politcal drama and had unique class abilities.
Have you tried any of the Xenosaga games?

[metr0man]

Only problem I have (and its a small problem) is that like Yeoman, I wish there was more of an influence of the character on the abilities. I don't want it so that only character X can cast say Cure, but I would prefer it so that Fran is better at it than say Basch even if there license board is filled out exactly the same. Really, the only affect the characters have on abilities so far is the stats.

What I would have liked is that the cost for each square be different for each character. Fran for example getting a discount on magic while Balthier getting a dicount on techs and Basch a discount on say swords and heavy armour, etc. It wouldn't have pigeonholed you into a specfic template but would have allowed for the character to truly be different from another.


In my game, Fran actually is better at magic than Balthier or Basch, the way to do it is to use like, mystical armor and such, those items help raise your Magical Attack and Magic resist stats. Sometimes you take a hit in defense or stats. On the flipside, I gave Balthier a powerful spear, and used heavy armor on him and now he's a bit of a physical powerhouse.
The game doesn't exactly do that for you, but I like being able to take characters down those paths. However its also true that as you stock up on LPs, to get to the further items, you have to buy some earlier licenses, and hey once you end up with magic on Balthier somewhere, it tempts you to use it.

[yeoman]

Have you tried any of the Xenosaga games?

Yes. Reather liked the first one. Second one sucked. Third one was pretty good except for the WTF moments surrounding the hour or two that KOS-MOS's origins are spelled out.

For Reference my favorite RPGs would be, in no particular order:

FFVII
FFIX
FFVI
Chrono Trigger
Shadowhearts: Covenent
Wild Arms
Lunar: SS
Lunar: EB
Skies of Arcadia
Mario RPG

Xenosaga 1 and 3 were decent, Wild Arms 3 holds a special place in my heart, if only for the ending. Tales of Symphonia I kinda dug for some of the plot and characters. Shadowhearts 3 was a letdown after Covenent, but not inherently bad. Xenogears would be pure awsome if it wasn't for the rushed second disc.

I used to like the Phantasy Star series, but less so later. And I'm really not big on the Dragon Warrior series.

I'm probably forgetting a few in there.

[Hiromi]

Ah, but at least I have you, Belthier. You are like Setzer combined with Jack Sparrow and James Kirk. You are all that is awsome and it is for you I put up with the gameplay.

Did I mention I like Belthier? :D

Its like they took everything that was awesome about Han Solo and gave him a totally awesome accent. And a hawt wookie.

[yeoman]

Its like they took everything that was awesome about Han Solo and gave him a totally awesome accent. And a hawt wookie.

I swear the first time they get into the airship I half expected:

Basch: Is this ship fast?

Beltheir: Fast enough for you, old man. Punch it, Fran.

Come one, the Scoundral, his non-human partner, the old veteren, the punk kid all on their way to rescue a princess from an evil empire. All they need are two droids and no questions asked.

[Lester C.]

Is the fact that Final Fantasy 12 drew inspiration from Star Wars bad? I'm not arguing the point as the opening scene was straight out of Phantom Menace but I think that drawing from Star Wars epic story adds rather than subtract from the gaming experience.

[yeoman]

Is the fact that Final Fantasy 12 drew inspiration from Star Wars bad? I'm not arguing the point as the opening scene was straight out of Phantom Menace but I think that drawing from Star Wars epic story adds rather than subtract from the gaming experience.


Inspiration is one thing. At a certain point it takes you out of the experience and detracts from the game though.

Though, to be fair Star Wars itself is inspired by Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress

[Lester C.]

Final Fantasy 13 spoilers.

For those wanting Final Fantasy XIII to be more tradional its not going to happen in terms of combat. Now in terms of astectics it the enviroment and charactes it looks like Final Fantasy 13 is drawing inspiration from Final Fantasy 7 and the protaginst is weilding a gudblade with an actual gun. Here is the trailer that was shown at EB a while back.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yvyHcBzetrk

[Xero Kaiser]

Why are you putting up spoiler warnings for an old ass promo trailer? 0_o

Chrono Trigger isn't Final Fantasy.

FF7, FF8, FF9 and FFX-2 are though. Feel better? The point is, this is as turn-based as past FF games.

[yeoman]

FF7, FF8, FF9 and FFX-2 are though.


That's funny, I rather considered them to be FInal Fantasy Games. Having, you know, that in their title as well as the standards of the FF series, including Turn Based Combat and random encounters.

As opposed to the words "Chrono Trigger," which were not in their title.

[Xero Kaiser]

Your reading comprehension needs work

Let's see if I can't make this nice and simple for you. FF7, FF8, FF9 and FFX-2 all use variations of the ATB system and they're considered turn-based games. FF12 uses a variation of the ATB system, so guess what? It's still turn-based. Like past FF games, there's a 'wait' mode you can use that pauses the action if you're having trouble keeping up with the battles or an 'active' mode that keeps things moving even when you've got menus open.

Why you considered this turn-based in the past but realtime now is beyond me

[Hiromi]

I swear the first time they get into the airship I half expected:

Basch: Is this ship fast?

Beltheir: Fast enough for you, old man. Punch it, Fran.

Come one, the Scoundral, his non-human partner, the old veteren, the punk kid all on their way to rescue a princess from an evil empire. All they need are two droids and no questions asked.

If Lucas isn't going to reuse the awesome stuff from his movies I certainly dont mind if other people do.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Why some people can't admit that FF12 plays different from the core style of 1-10 baffles the mind.

It's clearly a different experience.

Some people don't like the change. Stop trying to tell them that there ISN'T a big change because there is.

It's still a great game. But I'm allowed to be dissapointed they broke away from the mould if I want to be. And they DID.

[AllisterH]

Hmm...I think the reason why people don't consider FFXII to have ATB is because

a)it doesn't prompt you when your turn is ready. Seems weird since given the system CAN freeze when you enter the battle menu, so why didn't Square/Enix have an option that would automatically pause it?

b) There's no option to see what the opponent's wait time is at. Thus, you can't really plan your battles as much as a TRUE ATB system.

However, the strengths of the current system I greatly prefer. The pseudo-ATB gives me enough control over the characters (and the gambit system is very nice as well to take out the tedium) so it doesn't jsut become a clickfest yet at the same time, the fact that there is no glass shattering screen means I don't get kicked out of the experience.

[yeoman]

Your reading comprehension needs work

Let's see if I can't make this nice and simple for you. FF7, FF8, FF9 and FFX-2 all use variations of the ATB system and they're considered turn-based games. FF12 uses a variation of the ATB system, so guess what? It's still turn-based. Like past FF games, there's a 'wait' mode you can use that pauses the action if you're having trouble keeping up with the battles or an 'active' mode that keeps things moving even when you've got menus open.

Why you considered this turn-based in the past but realtime now is beyond me

See what Alister H said. There is no propt to tell you when it's another character's turn. I've had these guys twiddling there thumbs waiting for direction cause the Gambit System wasn't specific enough for them.

Which hurts even more considering just how high the difficulty on this thing is ratcheted.

[Donald M.]

See what Alister H said. There is no propt to tell you when it's another character's turn. I've had these guys twiddling there thumbs waiting for direction cause the Gambit System wasn't specific enough for them.



It isn't hard to figure out when it's time to issue a new command, if you're playing it that way, and the Gambits are plenty specific enough, especially later in the game as you start opening up more of them.

Maybe you have no patience for learning the game system because you hate it so much. That's the only thing I can figure, because this game is not complicated at all.

Nor is it that hard. There are the occasional (easily avoided) random encounters with powerful enemies. There are the Marks, which yes do tend to be a bit more powerful then your ready to handle, but it's nothing patience and some leveling won't fix. The main story though? Every single boss I've faced has gone down so easy that I've resigned myself to the fact that all the challenge is in the optional bosses/enemies. Not unlike every other Final Fantasy since part VII.

[AllisterH]

It isn't hard to figure out when it's time to issue a new command, if you're playing it that way, and the Gambits are plenty specific enough, especially later in the game as you start opening up more of them.

Maybe you have no patience for learning the game system because you hate it so much. That's the only thing I can figure, because this game is not complicated at all.

Nor is it that hard. There are the occasional (easily avoided) random encounters with powerful enemies. There are the Marks, which yes do tend to be a bit more powerful then your ready to handle, but it's nothing patience and some leveling won't fix. The main story though? Every single boss I've faced has gone down so easy that I've resigned myself to the fact that all the challenge is in the optional bosses/enemies. Not unlike every other Final Fantasy since part VII.


While I agree with the fact that the gambit system is pretty self-explanatory, it does take some getting use to (ex: I didn't have Phoenix down set as my first priority since I didn't see Ally: HP = 0, it was only when it clicked in that First aid could be set that I realized I could do the same with Phoenix Down).

That said, the difficulty _IS_ higher IMO. I've had to run just from the skeletons/spectres in the mines (I didn't find all the battery mimics) and both Garuda and Mimic Queen have caused me to reload. Similarly, supposeldyu you're able to beat the headhunters after Balthier when you first meet them, just individually. I simply ran all the way back to the start...Any scenario where it is possible for enemies to appear without showing up on your radar a la the mines can quite easily force you to run.

The pseudo-ATB system's main fault is the non-prompt when needed. Unlike other FF where you basically could ignore the screen until your time came again, this one REQUIRES your full attention which in a way, makes it just as tedious as the old style FF.

[Donald M.]

While I agree with the fact that the gambit system is pretty self-explanatory, it does take some getting use to (ex: I didn't have Phoenix down set as my first priority since I didn't see Ally: HP = 0, it was only when it clicked in that First aid could be set that I realized I could do the same with Phoenix Down).


Oh, of course it takes some getting used to. Still, on other boards I've seen people who hate the game calling it too complicated and it just isn't. There was a little bit of a learning curve, but now I've got the system figured out I find it quite good. The biggest frustration now is having to buy more gambits and unlock gambit slots through the license board in order to take full advantage of the system.


That said, the difficulty _IS_ higher IMO. I've had to run just from the skeletons/spectres in the mines (I didn't find all the battery mimics) and both Garuda and Mimic Queen have caused me to reload.


Really? Because I literally one-shotted both of those bosses with Quickening chains. The skeletons in the mines did pose a bit of a problem, but that was a question of sheer numbers. I leveled up a bit and they no longer pose any problem.


The pseudo-ATB system's main fault is the non-prompt when needed. Unlike other FF where you basically could ignore the screen until your time came again, this one REQUIRES your full attention which in a way, makes it just as tedious as the old style FF.

I've no problem with the system as it stands, but it would be nice if setting it up to prompt you when each character's next turn becomes available were at least an option. The system already offers more flexibility in how you play than most RPGs. A true turn-based option would have quieted a lot of the complainers, I think.

[yeoman]

Nor is it that hard. There are the occasional (easily avoided) random encounters with powerful enemies. There are the Marks, which yes do tend to be a bit more powerful then your ready to handle, but it's nothing patience and some leveling won't fix. The main story though? Every single boss I've faced has gone down so easy that I've resigned myself to the fact that all the challenge is in the optional bosses/enemies. Not unlike every other Final Fantasy since part VII.

I've had to fight and refight the last four bosses. Usually four times to beat them. To me that screams an unbalanced game.

The only way to beat the bosses is to throw a mist attack and a summon at them. Which usually just takes them right out.

How is that fun? Two attacks and the boss drops or they mock your every attempt to harm them.

[Donald M.]

[QUOTE=yeoman]I've had to fight and refight the last four bosses. Usually four times to beat them. To me that screams an unbalanced game.

Yeah, sure. You don't like the game, it's not fun for you. I get that. I can respect that.

Here's the thing though, when I don't like a game I stop playing it.

I dunno, maybe I'm weird.

[Xero Kaiser]

It's still a great game. But I'm allowed to be dissapointed they broke away from the mould if I want to be. And they DID.

Who are you even talking to?

[Jmacq1]

I haven't found the game too difficult so far.

But then again, I have a tendency to nigh-obsessively overlevel my characters in-between "story events" so that's pretty much par for the course for me.

I guess I just don't mind the grind, though in all honesty, it does seem far less tedious to me in this game than it has in past FFs. But we'll see how that goes later in the game. I haven't even made it to the Mimic Queen yet.

[metr0man]

The only time I died is when I blindly ran right up to that T-Rex and tried to fight him (whoops!).

I haven't had any trouble with the bosses, haven't died once. Once I got the natural timing and rhythm of the battles down, it became much easier.

[Donald M.]

It's still a great game. But I'm allowed to be dissapointed they broke away from the mould if I want to be. And they DID.


Sure. Just don't be surprised if no one particularly cares.

[Leslie Lee III]

Why some people can't admit that FF12 plays different from the core style of 1-10 baffles the mind.

I really can't see how anyone can disagree with this, or why they would.

It's still an incredible game, but it's different and not necessarily in a good way. IF the game had a system like Star Ocean's where controlling one character was an actual active experience I'd be more down. Or if they just notified you when your turn was up, that'd would be okay to. As it is, it's an MMORPG without the MMO so there's little excuse for the auto-attack scheme.

[yeoman]

[QUOTE=yeoman]I've had to fight and refight the last four bosses. Usually four times to beat them. To me that screams an unbalanced game.

Yeah, sure. You don't like the game, it's not fun for you. I get that. I can respect that.

Here's the thing though, when I don't like a game I stop playing it.

I dunno, maybe I'm weird.


Catch 22. If I don't finish the game I get told I can't dislike it becaue I never bothered to play through it. If I do finish it I get told why did I keep playing if I hated it.

Balthier and my tradition of finishing the FF games (Even VIII and friggin' Mystic Quest) pushes me onward.

[Crash-Man]

How exactly do you use Vaan's Red Spiral? Am I supposed to do something (like push a few buttons) before time runs out?

[Lester C.]

Why are you putting up spoiler warnings for an old ass promo trailer? 0_o



FF7, FF8, FF9 and FFX-2 are though. Feel better? The point is, this is as turn-based as past FF games.
There are people that take Final Fantasy very seriously and avoid all spoilers, no matter how minor, untill the game is completed. and they have played it to its conclusion. Had such a person read what I wrote or went to the link it would have ticked them them greatly and ruined their day.

[Lester C.]

Why some people can't admit that FF12 plays different from the core style of 1-10 baffles the mind.

It's clearly a different experience.

Some people don't like the change. Stop trying to tell them that there ISN'T a big change because there is.

It's still a great game. But I'm allowed to be dissapointed they broke away from the mould if I want to be. And they DID.
There are a lot of people who feel as you do and hate the game for it. At least you were still able to enjoy your gaming experience and get past the fact that this isn't the Final Fantasy we all grew up with.

[GremlinClr]

Could someone kindly explain how gambits are resolved? I rented the game and didn't get a manual.

Say I have 3 gambits set up on a character:
1-----Enemy: Nearest-----Attack
2-----Enemy: Nearest-----Slow
3-----Enemy: Nearest-----Steal

How does the game decide other then the order which one to do? I would think the character would simply attack and never get to the slow or steal but I don't think that's the case. Any help would be appreciated since gambits are very important to being successful in this game.

And what's the max number of gambits characters can have?

[Donald M.]

Catch 22. If I don't finish the game I get told I can't dislike it becaue I never bothered to play through it.


Yeah, by idiots. Who cares what idiots say?

If I do finish it I get told why did I keep playing if I hated it.


Because it makes no sense to keep playing a game you don't like. Not to me. Still, it's your time to waste and if you could make through Mystic Quest then you've obviously a much higher pain threshold than I and more power to you.

[El Santo]

The only time I died is when I blindly ran right up to that T-Rex and tried to fight him (whoops!).

I haven't had any trouble with the bosses, haven't died once. Once I got the natural timing and rhythm of the battles down, it became much easier.
I keep dying when I try to go after the hunts. The wraith killed me when I tried to solo it (dumb), and then I took a party to go after the...whatever dragon/fish thing you get hired to go after in the mines.

I'm also really glad that you aren't forced to have Vaan in your party if you don't want him around. Balthier/Fran/Bash for the win!

[AllisterH]

Could someone kindly explain how gambits are resolved? I rented the game and didn't get a manual.

Say I have 3 gambits set up on a character:
1-----Enemy: Nearest-----Attack
2-----Enemy: Nearest-----Slow
3-----Enemy: Nearest-----Steal

How does the game decide other then the order which one to do? I would think the character would simply attack and never get to the slow or steal but I don't think that's the case. Any help would be appreciated since gambits are very important to being successful in this game.

And what's the max number of gambits characters can have?

If you want a full explanation, try this Guide for License/Gambits (http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_xii_lic_gam_build.txt) but in short, what it is as follows.

The first part is the CONDITION and the second part is the ACTION. Think of it was basically a TRUE/FALSE statement. Thus, you basically have

IF Condition is TRUE, then do this Action and start from the top once again, otherwise go to next line/priority.

So, in your example, the character will ALWAYS attack the nearest enemy and then loop again to the top thus never seeing the other lines.

What you need to do is change the condition. These can be bought from the gambit stores in the various locales and you might find a couple. The game starts you out with a few conditions and actions. I would reword the above gambit as (based on what you should have already available)

1. Enemy: Foe HP = 100% -------------- Steal
2. Enemy: Foe HP = 100% ---------------Slow
3. Enemy: Nearest ---------------------Attack

What this does is that the character will steal only when the foe is at 100% (but as soon as this action is undertaken, the other characters gambits will kick in and assuming no other condition, they should be attacking meaning that you will only steal once)

Right now, I'm at the Tomb of the King and that's not far into the game (everyone's around lvl 17) yet pretty much everybody has 5-6 lines. Looking at the license board, I'm guessing easily over 10, maybe between 15-20)

My beginning gambit was the following.
1. Ally: Any -------------------- First Aid
2. Ally: Hp < 20% -------------- Potion
3. Enemy: Nearest ------------- Attack

Once you get more gambit slots from the license board and techs plus higher levels and more money, you can switch First Aid to Phoenix Down (Phoenix Downs is better than using First Aid IMO and potion to Hi-Potion.

However, EVERY character should have those two lines as their frist priorities no matter what part of the game.

Afterwards you can add more lines like what I currently have set up for Vaan.

1. Ally: Any -------------------- Phoenix Down
2. Ally: Hp < 20% -------------- Hi-Potion
3. Ally: Hp < 50% -------------- Cure
4. Foe: Hp = 100% ------------- Steal
5. Foe: Nearest Enemy --------- Attack
6. Ally: Hp < 100% -------------- Cure

[Donald M.]

___________________________________________-

[metr0man]

Allister, when you set Ally: Any to Phoenix Down, how does that work exactly? Won't your character automatically give a Phoenix Down first to people that are alive? or does the Any condition somehow detect when they are dead?

[Xero Kaiser]

There are people that take Final Fantasy very seriously and avoid all spoilers, no matter how minor, untill the game is completed. and they have played it to its conclusion. Had such a person read what I wrote or went to the link it would have ticked them them greatly and ruined their day.

If someone gets mad about hearing what kind of weapon one of the characters in FF13 uses (even though it's been seen in FF before), they're probably taking it a little too seriously and deserve to have their day ruined

It's still an incredible game, but it's different and not necessarily in a good way. IF the game had a system like Star Ocean's where controlling one character was an actual active experience I'd be more down.

Can't you just not use gambits for a character you actually want to control? Or do you mean an actual realtime combat system like Tales/Star Ocean? In that case...hell yes. Realtime > (semi)turn-based, any day

[AllisterH]

Allister, when you set Ally: Any to Phoenix Down, how does that work exactly? Won't your character automatically give a Phoenix Down first to people that are alive? or does the Any condition somehow detech when they are dead?

That's what I first thought as well and I didn't have Phoenix Down set at all but then I noticed that Balthier had First aid automatically set and that only triggers when a person is at a critical HP even though the condition was ANY

The subtle trick behind the condition statement is that the ACTION will also affect the True/False statement.

For example, you can have your highest MP user have the following gambit
Ally: Any ------- Protect
Aly: Any ------- Shell
and the game is smart enough to NOT cast the spell if it is already active. The same goes for ANY spell/status that has a duration. The AI will simply consider the condition statement to be false if the Action is already TRUE.

[Lester C.]

Catch 22. If I don't finish the game I get told I can't dislike it becaue I never bothered to play through it. If I do finish it I get told why did I keep playing if I hated it.

Balthier and my tradition of finishing the FF games (Even VIII and friggin' Mystic Quest) pushes me onward.

I may disagree with your assessment of this game but you paid your money and put in your time so I don't begrudge you your opinion nor do dismiss it because it is contrary to what I believe. I'm just sad that you did not enjoy your gaming experience and feel that you wasted your time and money.

[nervmeister]

HUGE quesition: What is the meaning behind the name "Final Fantasy"? It's just one of those delightfully mysterious sounding titles like "Devil May Cry".

Edit: It's also one the most ironic in that series never seems to end.

[Leslie Lee III]

HUGE quesition: What is the meaning behind the name "Final Fantasy"? It's just one of those delightfully mysterious sounding titles like "Devil May Cry".

Edit: It's also one the most ironic in that series never seems to end.

The guy who created the series was about to quit the Video Game business so he named his last hurrah "Final Fantasy." Turns out it was a success so he put his move from the industry on hold for a bit.

[nervmeister]

The guy who created the series was about to quit the Video Game business so he named his last hurrah "Final Fantasy." Turns out it was a success so he put his move from the industry on hold for a bit.Ohhh, now I get it. Thankyou Leslie.

[El Santo]

Is anyone else finding the hunts to be really, really difficult? It was about level 10-12 trying to kill that big fish thing in the Lhusu mines, and it totally kicked my ass. What's up with that?

[GremlinClr]

If you want a full explanation, try this Guide for License/Gambits (http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/final_fantasy_xii_lic_gam_build.txt) but in short, what it is as follows.

The first part is the CONDITION and the second part is the ACTION. Think of it was basically a TRUE/FALSE statement. Thus, you basically have

IF Condition is TRUE, then do this Action and start from the top once again, otherwise go to next line/priority.

So, in your example, the character will ALWAYS attack the nearest enemy and then loop again to the top thus never seeing the other lines.

What you need to do is change the condition. These can be bought from the gambit stores in the various locales and you might find a couple. The game starts you out with a few conditions and actions. I would reword the above gambit as (based on what you should have already available)

1. Enemy: Foe HP = 100% -------------- Steal
2. Enemy: Foe HP = 100% ---------------Slow
3. Enemy: Nearest ---------------------Attack

What this does is that the character will steal only when the foe is at 100% (but as soon as this action is undertaken, the other characters gambits will kick in and assuming no other condition, they should be attacking meaning that you will only steal once)

Right now, I'm at the Tomb of the King and that's not far into the game (everyone's around lvl 17) yet pretty much everybody has 5-6 lines. Looking at the license board, I'm guessing easily over 10, maybe between 15-20)

My beginning gambit was the following.
1. Ally: Any -------------------- First Aid
2. Ally: Hp < 20% -------------- Potion
3. Enemy: Nearest ------------- Attack

Once you get more gambit slots from the license board and techs plus higher levels and more money, you can switch First Aid to Phoenix Down (Phoenix Downs is better than using First Aid IMO and potion to Hi-Potion.

However, EVERY character should have those two lines as their frist priorities no matter what part of the game.

Afterwards you can add more lines like what I currently have set up for Vaan.

1. Ally: Any -------------------- Phoenix Down
2. Ally: Hp < 20% -------------- Hi-Potion
3. Ally: Hp < 50% -------------- Cure
4. Foe: Hp = 100% ------------- Steal
5. Foe: Nearest Enemy --------- Attack
6. Ally: Hp < 100% -------------- Cure

Thanks for that, now it makes sense. :)

[AllisterH]

Is anyone else finding the hunts to be really, really difficult? It was about level 10-12 trying to kill that big fish thing in the Lhusu mines, and it totally kicked my ass. What's up with that?

The Wyvern Lord and the Tortoise were HARD. Even though the Wyvern is only a Level 2 and the tortoise is level 1, don't attempt them unless you're at least at level 20.

In general, I've found the boss/Hunt fights to be pretty damn challenging compared to the typical bosses in Final Fantasy (a.k.a, only the final end boss is difficult).

If you're massively levelled up elsewhere, I can see how these would be easy but so far the only boss fight I had ite asy with was Gigas, the first Esper and the Hydra in the Lhusu mines.

The bloody demon wall in the Tomb of the king forced me to level up elsewhere twice before I could take it out...

[Jmacq1]

Just a tip for gaining some fairly quick level-up if you're between 10-15 and have managed to unlock a "quickening".

Go use it on the Werewolves in the South Giza plains. If you manage a combo you'll kill one outright and take about half the HP of the second. Flee from him until he stops following you, build up your MP again, wash, rinse, and repeat. You get 1000-1500XP a pop for killing them and 2 LP apiece (and they drop "Quality Hides" which sell for good money). It's a little time consuming, but worth it if you need to boost your levels a bit.

[yeoman]

The Wyvern Lord and the Tortoise were HARD. Even though the Wyvern is only a Level 2 and the tortoise is level 1, don't attempt them unless you're at least at level 20.

In general, I've found the boss/Hunt fights to be pretty damn challenging compared to the typical bosses in Final Fantasy (a.k.a, only the final end boss is difficult).


I'm finding they're too easy or too hard. You either slap them around with mist attacks, often one or two shotting them, or they're virtually impossible.

The game gets a lot easier if you just find a nice spot to power level three or four levels and buy some top end equipment.

[kingdom2000]

For those that have the FFXII Brady Games guide...do you know why some of the treasure chests are marked with the ID number in black? I can't figure out the pattern so not sure if should if they are ones should open when come across them or not. Thanks.

[Lester C.]

For those that have the FFXII Brady Games guide...do you know why some of the treasure chests are marked with the ID number in black? I can't figure out the pattern so not sure if should if they are ones should open when come across them or not. Thanks.
It might have something to do with the most powerful weapon in the game which is gotten by NOT opening certain treasure chests.

[Jmacq1]

No, the guide specifically lists which treasure chests not to open to get that weapon.

I have no idea what the rest of the "black" chests are meant to indicate, though.

[AllisterH]

I'm finding they're too easy or too hard. You either slap them around with mist attacks, often one or two shotting them, or they're virtually impossible.

The game gets a lot easier if you just find a nice spot to power level three or four levels and buy some top end equipment.

I'm not sure its just that. My fight with the first esper, Gigas, was laughingly easy. Didn't change any of my gambits and simply beat him down without much trouble. Similarly, the HYDRA wasn't a problem.

Yet people are telling me that the Hydra/Snake hunt in the mines is REALLY tough yet both the Mimic Queen and the Wyvern Lord were apparently a piece of cake to beat.

The only consistent HARD boss I've seen everyone mention on different boards so far was the 1st boss, namely Firemane.

[Jmacq1]

I'm not sure its just that. My fight with the first esper, Gigas, was laughingly easy. Didn't change any of my gambits and simply beat him down without much trouble. Similarly, the HYDRA wasn't a problem.

Yet people are telling me that the Hydra/Snake hunt in the mines is REALLY tough yet both the Mimic Queen and the Wyvern Lord were apparently a piece of cake to beat.

The only consistent HARD boss I've seen everyone mention on different boards so far was the 1st boss, namely Firemane.

Heh, I beat the snot out of Firemane. Like most FFs, if you level up a bit between "story segments" the only people that will give you trouble are the "hidden/side bosses" (And that includes several of the "hunts") and the final boss.

[Leslie Lee III]

Mimic Queen was easy. Firemane was not. I don't plan on any power leveling. Tres boring, and I barely have time to play anyway.

[titanfan]

The only boss that's killed me so far was that very first Demon Wall, I was too stupid to realize there was a time limit.

I'm not finding some of the bosses "tough" to beat--but for me some of them are taking a ridiculously long time. It took me 30 minutes to fight Tiamat last night. I would say that I was only in danger once when a Disablega disabled my entire active party, but for the most part the last few bosses have been just tedious.

I don't have any of the Level 3 quickenings yet, but so far, I'm totally underwhelmed by their cost to damage ratio. Right now, I'd rather just have the MP.

[yeoman]

The only boss that's killed me so far was that very first Demon Wall, I was too stupid to realize there was a time limit.

I'm not finding some of the bosses "tough" to beat--but for me some of them are taking a ridiculously long time. It took me 30 minutes to fight Tiamat last night. I would say that I was only in danger once when a Disablega disabled my entire active party, but for the most part the last few bosses have been just tedious.

I don't have any of the Level 3 quickenings yet, but so far, I'm totally underwhelmed by their cost to damage ratio. Right now, I'd rather just have the MP.

Just a Level 2 quickening, properly chained, will do half to all of a bosses health. Usually somewhere around half to 3/4.

[DF2506]

Whoa this thread grew!! Whew. :)

Well, I should have checked back in sooner, but I've been playing FF12 alot!! Its just a great game. I reviewed it here: http://rpgdivinity.com/drupal/

Just having a great time with the game. I'm currently 30 some hours in (though quiete a bit of that time I was leveling up, so I'm not sure how far I really am). I'm a temple after Mt. Bur. Just a great game. Can't wait to play more!

DF2506
" Just one of the best FF games ever, imo."

[El Santo]

Okay...the manual doesn't really explain Mist stuff that well. When I activate a quickening, am I supposed to keep hitting R2 to shuffle it? Press the right buttons? Do both? I'm confused.

[yeoman]

Okay...the manual doesn't really explain Mist stuff that well. When I activate a quickening, am I supposed to keep hitting R2 to shuffle it? Press the right buttons? Do both? I'm confused.

As far as I can tell, and I'm not entirely sure this is the best way, if there's no buttons listed to hit right away (usually triangle, sometimes something else if you've got two of more people with Quickenings in the party) You do this:

1) Hit R2 once.

2) wait a breif moment until either a button is listed, or the names go grey again.

3) If there's a button listed, press it a bunch. The game usually wants it pressed more than once so just keep pressing. If the names go grey go back to step one.

Repeat this as often as you can to chain the attack.

That's what I've been doing and I can usually get at least a 3 chain attack, often getting up to six or seven. I think rank one maxes out at three chains and rank 2 maxes out at 6 or seven.

[El Santo]

Thanks for the help. I'm really, really loving this game. I've always kind of admired FF from afar, not finishing FF9 (though I came close) or FF8 (oy vey), but I loved FF Tactics more than any other FF. I'm glad to see someone from that game was involved with this one...it definitely shows in the type of story they're telling.

[Jmacq1]

Okay...the manual doesn't really explain Mist stuff that well. When I activate a quickening, am I supposed to keep hitting R2 to shuffle it? Press the right buttons? Do both? I'm confused.

Kind of how yeoman described it, but here's a more specific version:

Once the mist attack starts, you get a four second "timer". All of the characters in your current party that have mist attacks will be displayed.

One of two things can be displayed: Either the name of the person's Mist Attack, or the words "Mist Charge". There will also be a button in front of the attack name/mist charge.

If the attack name is white, press the button. If it says "mist charge" press the button twice. The first button press "recharges" your mist attack and the second executes the attack. Whenever you perform a mist attack, you get a little bit of time back on your four-second timer. But the more attacks you chain together, the less and less time you'll get back. The best I've managed so far is an eight-hit combo. Pressing just the "mist charge" does not stop/reset the clock, so be sure to hit the button again to use your attack.

If both names are grey, press R2 to "shuffle" the names. If you're lucky one of the names will turn white with a "mist charge" and you can get in another attack as outlined above. You can keep hitting R2 as many times as you need to until time runs out. Wash, rinse, repeat until the timer completely runs out.

Also, successfully chaining together multiple mist attacks can earn you a "bonus attack" at the end. So far I've only managed the "inferno" bonus attack (three level-1 mist attacks in a combo trigger this). The nice thing about the "bonus attacks" is that they're area-effect attacks. So if you successfully chain your mist attacks, you can take out groups of enemies at once.

[Jmacq1]

Awww, that kinda stinks. I tend to enjoy the romance stuff. When the developers said (many moons ago) that the romance/love aspect of things was going to be "different" and not as central to the story, I didn't figure they meant it was gone completely. I just figured that the romance options weren't going to be immediately obvious. (IE it wasn't Vaan and Ashe that would "hook up.") Heck, I thought for a half-moment that they might let (almost) the whole party get in on the romance bit.

That's one aspect I've often felt these games lacked: A few moments developing the relationships between the characters (whether in or out of romance). It makes it a lot more "rich" of a storyline if the characters are actually acting like good friends by the end of their epic adventure. FF X did a decent (better than most) job of it. I'm hoping XII can do better.

Personally, I'd go for Fran. ;)

[yeoman]

Okay, here's what I've got so far:

I'm still not a fan of the game engine. I hate it slightly less, but still not a fan. Check out the reviews on Penny Arcade from this week on it. I can see some of Gabe's point, but agree more with Tycho.

The story starts intresting with Vaan wanting to become a sky pirate. I was half hoping for something Skies of Arcadia-ish, especially when Balthier showed. Then it gets bogged down in political drama for awhile. Around the point of the Tomb it starts to swing back towards epic and is much more intresting.

But where it really shines, and I mean shines, is the characters. Each have their own mannerisms and way of speaking. Vaan and Panelo are commoners and have a loose way of speaking. As a princess Ashe speaks in a formal and archaic way. Basch falls somewhere in between, and Baltheir references drama and just acts larger than life.

And then there is Fran. Fran and the rest of the Viera just come off as... alien. They experience the world differently and it comes across when they speak.

If this was a series of CG movies I'd be all over it and probably love it. As is, not a fan of the game play, and putting up with it only for the cast.

[Perry Holley]

Remeber, folks, using profanity is a no-no on this board.

So is quoting someone else using said profanity.

[Titan76]

Rather then read the entire thread here I just going to ask my question. I have play FF12 for about 8 hours or so now and I love the graphics but so far the characters and story have been bad. I mean the only thing the story has going for it is that Van hates the Empire and his brother is dead. Whoopy.:rolleyes:

So my question is does the story get better later down and do we get so good character development? And without spoiling to much how does it get better?

I am not really digging the characters that much. When I played FFX I was all into that game and its characters from start to finish. But so far I can't say the same for this one.

[Xero Kaiser]

and do we can't so good character development?

Type slower.

And I think it should be pretty obvious that the story is going to involve more than Van's brother being dead

[Titan76]

And I think it should be pretty obvious that the story is going to involve more than Van's brother being dead
I kind of figured that but was wondering how much longer does it take? I put over 8 hours(which isn't that much I agree) into this game and that's all its been talking about. It gets boring after a while.

[El Santo]

Rather then read the entire thread here I just going to ask my question. I have play FF12 for about 8 hours or so now and I love the graphics but so far the characters and story have been bad. I mean the only thing the story has going for it is that Van hates the Empire and his brother is dead. Whoopy.:rolleyes:

So my question is does the story get better later down and do we get so good character development? And without spoiling to much how does it get better?

I am not really digging the characters that much. When I played FFX I was all into that game and its characters from start to finish. But so far I can't say the same for this one.
8 Hours and you haven't even met Balthier and Fran? Weird. What have you been doing all this time? I'm only 10 hours into the game and I've already found at least 5 other subplots (Basch's backstory, Balthier is being hunted for some reason, the Princess' quest for revenge, the Empire's political moves against Vayne, the power of the Deifacted Nethicite...).

Seriously dude, what have you been doing in those 8 hours?

[Lester C.]

8 Hours and you haven't even met Balthier and Fran? Weird. What have you been doing all this time? I'm only 10 hours into the game and I've already found at least 5 other subplots (Basch's backstory, Balthier is being hunted for some reason, the Princess' quest for revenge, the Empire's political moves against Vayne, the power of the Deifacted Nethicite...).

Seriously dude, what have you been doing in those 8 hours?
Power leveling is my case. With the exception of Final Fantasy 8 it always pays to power lever your characters in this and most other RPGS.

[El Santo]

Power leveling is my case. With the exception of Final Fantasy 8 it always pays to power lever your characters in this and most other RPGS.

I've been able to handle all of the bosses I've found so far (the last one that isn't spoilerific being Gigas) without much powerlevelling, and for a while I was even cycling characters to keep them all around the same level (this is actually a good idea, since some bosses will chew up your first 3 and it pays to have all 6 ready to go). The monster hunts, on the other hand, have often kicked my ass for being under-levelled, but when I come back at the next "story break", I can usually bring them down.

Incidentally, has anyone found a way to remove the Doom status effect?

[LordKaos]

The remedy lore next to the brawler license allows remedy to remove it.

[Lester C.]

I've been able to handle all of the bosses I've found so far (the last one that isn't spoilerific being Gigas) without much powerlevelling, and for a while I was even cycling characters to keep them all around the same level (this is actually a good idea, since some bosses will chew up your first 3 and it pays to have all 6 ready to go). The monster hunts, on the other hand, have often kicked my ass for being under-levelled, but when I come back at the next "story break", I can usually bring them down.

Incidentally, has anyone found a way to remove the Doom status effect?
There are people who power level even when they don't have to. It's an hardcore rpgamer kind of thing.

[El Santo]

There are people who power level even when they don't have to. It's an hardcore rpgamer kind of thing.
Oh, I loved powerlevelling in FF Tactics. But if you're 8 hours in, most of that time spent in pointless battles, and complaining about a lack of story...that's kinda YOUR fault, isn't it? ;)


And yes, I know it wasn't you complaining. :D

[Titan76]

8 Hours and you haven't even met Balthier and Fran? Weird. What have you been doing all this time? I'm only 10 hours into the game and I've already found at least 5 other subplots (Basch's backstory, Balthier is being hunted for some reason, the Princess' quest for revenge, the Empire's political moves against Vayne, the power of the Deifacted Nethicite...).
I've already done all of this. I just got done beating the first boss in the cave and I'm now exploring the desert.

But the story really hasn't change that much. Yes I met Princess Ashe, Fran, Balthier, and Baschs but the story is still Van hates the Empire, blames Baschs for brother's death, and now they are running from the Empire. I'm just not feeling the story as of yet.
Seriously dude, what have you been doing in those 8 hours?
A lot of things.

[Lester C.]

Oh, I loved powerlevelling in FF Tactics. But if you're 8 hours in, most of that time spent in pointless battles, and complaining about a lack of story...that's kinda YOUR fault, isn't it? ;)


And yes, I know it wasn't you complaining. :D
I power leved all of my guys in tactics to level 99 which was easy because the random battles were auto leved. However the story mode had preset enemy levels so at the end I was level 99 going against much weaker characters. There is just something about overleveling that appeals to hardcore fans like myself but I'll be darned if I can explain why.

[El Santo]

I've already done all of this. I just got done beating the first boss in the cave and I'm now exploring the desert.

But the story really hasn't change that much. Yes I met Princess Ashe, Fran, Balthier, and Baschs but the story is still Van hates the Empire, blames Baschs for brother's death, and now they are running from the Empire. I'm just not feeling the story as of yet.

A lot of things.

Umm...like I said. You're going very, very slowly. If Vaan still hates Basch then you haven't encountered half of the sub-plots I'm talking about, and you're only a couple of hours behind me in play-time. It really just sounds like you haven't played the game that much.

[Leslie Lee III]

Isn't hating an Empire the plot of like every other Final Fantasy game? Or RPG, for that matter?

I'll say thanks to FFXII maturity and presentation I'm far more intrigued by it's stories and characters than any other RPG I can recall playing.

[Lester C.]

Isn't hating an Empire the plot of like every other Final Fantasy game? Or RPG, for that matter?
That or God if the developers are feeling ambitious and controversial.

[Leslie Lee III]

That or God if the developers are feeling ambitious and controversial.

And even then Xenogears/saga mixes in an Empire or two.

Difference here though FFXII actually delves into the subject in such a way that the Empire conflict isn't just a handy cliche to get the action started.

Yeah, there are still Moogles and Chocobos and enemy fruit, but there's a sense of realism here that makes this story more enganging than the average RPG dealing with the same themes.

[Lester C.]

And even then Xenogears/saga mixes in an Empire or two.

Difference here though FFXII actually delves into the subject in such a way that the Empire conflict isn't just a handy cliche to get the action started.

Yeah, there are still Moogles and Chocobos and enemy fruit, but there's a sense of realism here that makes this story more enganging than the average RPG dealing with the same themes.
Spoilers for Xenosaga games

Xenosaga took incorporating religious and other highly controversial themes to new levels in their wonderful series of game. In older rpgs you had alien worlds and alien gods that had paralleled in our world but not quite. In Xenosaga their themes revolved around our world and Christianity. They even debunked everything Christians believed in by making the true power behind Jesus Christ a playable character that was using his power to spread out the teaching the real Jesus Christ who was just an ordinary man with a message. I could go on and on but Christianity got pwned in that game.

[AllisterH]

Ok, what level did you guys have to be at to defeat the level 3 hunts?

My party are all at level 30 (I prefer switching characters in and out so everyone is the same level) and I have to go to Archaedes.

Well, I figured I would do some hunts to get more gold to afford the Golden Amulet (doubles license points) for everyone before heading off.

No problem with the level 2 (except for the Doom status) but now, I'm simply getting absolutely and totally smashed by the level 3 marks.

I unlesahed an 8-hit mist combo on the Dragon in the sandstorm in the western deserts and it pretty much did didly squat AND I'm getting absolutely hosed by the elementals during the Giza rains (I know, don't cast magic when around them but they purposely seem to hang around the hyenas which while I can one-shot seem to cause it to go aggro) since I can't even get to the last bloody tree to cut since there is a HUGE, freaking Lightning Elemental blocking my path.

Really, why are those elementals so bloody tough?

[Lester C.]

Ok, what level did you guys have to be at to defeat the level 3 hunts?

My party are all at level 30 (I prefer switching characters in and out so everyone is the same level) and I have to go to Archaedes.

Well, I figured I would do some hunts to get more gold to afford the Golden Amulet (doubles license points) for everyone before heading off.

No problem with the level 2 (except for the Doom status) but now, I'm simply getting absolutely and totally smashed by the level 3 marks.

I unlesahed an 8-hit mist combo on the Dragon in the sandstorm in the western deserts and it pretty much did didly squat AND I'm getting absolutely hosed by the elementals during the Giza rains (I know, don't cast magic when around them but they purposely seem to hang around the hyenas which while I can one-shot seem to cause it to go aggro) since I can't even get to the last bloody tree to cut since there is a HUGE, freaking Lightning Elemental blocking my path.

Really, why are those elementals so bloody tough?
Your level sounds about right. Make sure your MP is fully charged so you can use the highest level mist attacks and if your wepons are not up to snuff your characters are actually far more powerfull unarmed than armed. Finally play around with your gambit settings. Have your characters cast heal spells once your HP points reach below wherever you set the gambit at.

[titanfan]

Ok, what level did you guys have to be at to defeat the level 3 hunts?

My party are all at level 30 (I prefer switching characters in and out so everyone is the same level) and I have to go to Archaedes.


I just did them a couple of days ago and I was right at the point where you are at. (With about an average level of 30) Make sure that your front line characters have the most recent armor/shields available (At the Hunt Club place) and then it will go from very hard to very easy.


I unlesahed an 8-hit mist combo on the Dragon in the sandstorm in the western deserts and it pretty much did didly squat AND I'm getting absolutely hosed by the elementals during the Giza rains (I know, don't cast magic when around them but they purposely seem to hang around the hyenas which while I can one-shot seem to cause it to go aggro) since I can't even get to the last bloody tree to cut since there is a HUGE, freaking Lightning Elemental blocking my path.


About the same difficulty as the Level 3 hunts. Get the armor from the hunt club place, cast decoy on the front line warrior, etc. Note that the dragon gets much harder as he gets low in life, save your mist combos to take off his last 5k-10k health.

Elementals still give me trouble. There are some items/armor that reduce damage from certain elements 50% (you can always use the dawn shard), those help a lot. If you just need to chop down tree, try reflect on yourself and then running over and chopping the tree.

[Lester C.]

I just beat the game and let me just say that the story never did engage me. Now its normal for rpgs to start slow and pick up in a hurry as the threads of the story weave into a grand tapresty but this one never quite got of the ground.

[titanfan]

I'm 95% done at this point. I'm debating whether or not I want to tackle the outrageous side quest bosses (71 million HP? Are you kidding me?) before doing the final level.

The storyline seems to lack heart. In my RPG, I want to feel that the characters have an epic mountain to climb, or overcoming great obstacles--and this one really didn't do it for me. I love the Suikoden stories so it's surprising to me that I couldn't really get into this one.

There was a lack of characterization it seems too. I would have liked to see a lot more character bonding moments, as I never really seemed to get the impression that this group was as tight as other groups in the past. Penelo has to be the most ignored main party character in Final Fantasy history. She was totally ignored and only spoke up once in awhile to remind you she was there. Even Vaan didn't seem to get to do much despite being the male lead character.

[yeoman]

I'm 95% done at this point. I'm debating whether or not I want to tackle the outrageous side quest bosses (71 million HP? Are you kidding me?) before doing the final level.

The storyline seems to lack heart. In my RPG, I want to feel that the characters have an epic mountain to climb, or overcoming great obstacles--and this one really didn't do it for me. I love the Suikoden stories so it's surprising to me that I couldn't really get into this one.

There was a lack of characterization it seems too. I would have liked to see a lot more character bonding moments, as I never really seemed to get the impression that this group was as tight as other groups in the past. Penelo has to be the most ignored main party character in Final Fantasy history. She was totally ignored and only spoke up once in awhile to remind you she was there. Even Vaan didn't seem to get to do much despite being the male lead character.

I'd disagree on the characterization point, wtih two exceptions. There was a lot of subtle character moments for a lot of the cast. Save Baltheir whose just in your face with his awsome.

You're right about their bonding though. There's a bit on the end that reminds you why they're hanging together and have a common goal, but not much other than that.

And Panelo, man, she got nothing. Everyone else had at least a plot point or two of their own, she got nothing except kidnapped. However, the very end told me why she's in the game (other than to fill out your party).

She and Vaan seem to be meant as a parrallel to Fran and Baltheir. As such, she' meant as his sidekick. That said, it doesn't excuse her having no role.

[Wesley Dodds]

I finished it a few weeks ago.

OK, I liked that they put Gilgamesh in.

[Adromidon]

I had a charecter get silenced an none of the methodes will remove it I.E Remedy, echo herbs Vox, ect.

Square -Enix says this is supposed to happen but won't tell me how to remove the silence. Is there something anyone can recomed. Does buying more remedy lores increase the chances of it removing certain status effects

[Wesley Dodds]

Are you sure it's silence? It could be another status like virus or don't act.

In any case it should vanish when you touch a save crystal.

[Adromidon]

It says silence when i look at Panello's status. I have tried crystals both teleport and regular and neithor remove it.

I emailed Square-Enix support and got the following response

Thank you for contacting Square Enix Customer Support,

The developers of FINAL FANTASY XII made the decision to fundamentally change the way a FINAL FANTASY title is played. One of these changes involves status effects, and how they are removed. Some customers have reported what they feel is a bug, being unable to remove certain status effects. This is not a bug or a glitch, but a development decision that lies in the realm of gameplay tips, tricks, and strategy. While we cannot tell you what you need to do, we can assure you that the game is working as intended, and there are no glitches in regards to status effects.

We hope this information has been of assistance.

Thanks,
Square Enix Customer Support
www.square-enix.com


What kind of answer is that I mean really. Apparently according to that email there is a rare chance of getting a status effect that can only be removed a special way and they will not tell me what. :(

[Wesley Dodds]

Well, maybe you have a certain item equipped on Penelo and that's why she has silence status?

[Adromidon]

That may very well be I will check on that but thought i had checked that before

[Wesley Dodds]

Well, let us know if you sort it -- I think I gave you a good enough hint. If you still can't fix it we'll need more info from you.

[Lester C.]

I had a charecter get silenced an none of the methodes will remove it I.E Remedy, echo herbs Vox, ect.

Square -Enix says this is supposed to happen but won't tell me how to remove the silence. Is there something anyone can recomed. Does buying more remedy lores increase the chances of it removing certain status effects
Have the character die in battle and then use a phenex down to revive them.

[Cowlander]

sounds like you have the day shard equiped on that character

[Xero Kaiser]

I got distracted by GoW for a while, but having spent more time with the game I have no idea where are the "this game plays itself" comments are coming from. Other than a gambit that makes sure everyone's targeting the same enemy, I handle everything for every character myself.

[Jmacq1]

Actually, I did an experiment.

Bearing in mind this was with fairly overpowered (Level 40 before going to Mt. Bur-Omisace) characters who had all their gambit slots unlocked.

I went to fight the "Earth Tyrant", and as soon as the battle started (after I'd double-checked to make sure all my preferred gambits were set), I got up and left, made a sandwich, and came back.

Sure enough, that Earth Tyrant was dead, and my party wasn't too much the worse for wear.

I think that's what they mean. Certainly you -can- individually control every character if you want, but I think those gambits actually make the game more fun/less tedious.

[Donald M.]

I think that's what they mean. Certainly you -can- individually control every character if you want, but I think those gambits actually make the game more fun/less tedious.

Exactly, the gambits aren't doing anything you wouldn't be doing yourself, it just eliminates much of the needless mindless button pressing in most battles where you're going to be doing exactly what you set up gambits for your characters to do.

If controlling every action of your characters in every battle is important to you, the game does give that option. I don't really get all the complaints.

[metr0man]

I tend to keep fairly simple gambits for my other two guys (I always control party leader manually). one or two healing rules, attack HP critical foe, attack nearest, then one or two little stuff like equipping libra or some such thing. I find if I make them too complicated, i inevitably get a situation where they start casting magic or whatnot when I don't really want it, and what I use is a lot of times determined by how much MP i have.
I really only let the game "play itself" once, when I went back to the Yensa sandsea to level grind, and since i was overpowered enough that two hits takes out those jawa looking creatures, i just ran around, auto-attacking, and I ended up with a 100 chain.

I used to do a lot more manual stuff in the beginning, but it did become tedious. Even with gambits you can still strategize. My favorite little tactic is running forward with my manual character, until the enemy targets me, then running back through my other party members, forcing the enemy to cut through them, and by then their ATB meters have filled up and they hack away repeately before enemy can catch up to me to hit me.

I've found that the story, though well told with more sophistication than usual, hasn't really grabbed me as much as 7,8, and 10 did. However, the gameplay has won me over, the new system is a breath of fresh air.

[titanfan]

Speaking of auto-playing, I want to auto-level my characters to 99. I'm trying to find a place where I can stay still and enemies will keep spawning. That way I can leave my gambits on, go watch a movie and come back. Can anyone think of a place?

I tried the Zertinian Caves and some of the other places where there are a lot of undead spawn, but they seem to stop after awhile if I keep moving around.

[Leslie Lee III]

If controlling every action of your characters in every battle is important to you, the game does give that option. I don't really get all the complaints.

Because the game isn't really set up for that from how long battles take to being notified when your guys are ready to attack. Controlling every action in this game does not at all resemble that of previous FF games. That's why people complain about it.

[Jmacq1]

Speaking of auto-playing, I want to auto-level my characters to 99. I'm trying to find a place where I can stay still and enemies will keep spawning. That way I can leave my gambits on, go watch a movie and come back. Can anyone think of a place?

I tried the Zertinian Caves and some of the other places where there are a lot of undead spawn, but they seem to stop after awhile if I keep moving around.

I don't think there's anyplace what you're proposing can be done. From my experimentation and extensive grinding, it seems like each area "respawns" somewhere between 2 and 4 times before you're forced to move to another area for a few minutes to start the cycle over again.

The repops aren't always "complete" repops either. So if there's 10 enemies in an area originally, the second spawn might only have 8, and the third even less. That seems to vary with the zone, though.

So no...no autolevelling macros in FF XII. You gotta at least move your folks around. ;)

[Xero Kaiser]

Because the game isn't really set up for that from how long battles take

Battles don't seem much shorter or longer than other FF games. Until you break out those busted-ass quickenings and one-shot a boss.

to being notified when your guys are ready to attack.

That doesn't even make sense. The bar doesn't begin to fill up until after you've decided on an action. There's no need to notify you when the bar's full, because you'll be attacking/casting/whatever when it is. Other FF games had that order reversed and needed that notification. FF12 doesn't need to notify when you're ready to attack for the same reasons KOTOR or NWN or a MMO don't. You're always ready to attack

Controlling every action in this game does not at all resemble that of previous FF games.

The battle menu is no different than the one we've been seeing since FF7. The system itself is a little different, but controlling the actions is exactly the same. Left/right to select a character, up/down to navigate the menu, X to make a selection. How is that not the same?

[Titan76]

I just finished this today and I must say the was not a good game. The graphics were nothing short of amazing but the story and group were so weak and bad I really didn't care how the game ended. Vaan imo is the most worthless main character of all of the FF games(a friend of my who has played all the FF games on both PS1 and PS2 agrees with me as well).

This group felt soo forced together it never truly made sense to me as why they should have really stayed together in the first place. Penelo was the character that felt must forced in being in this group. In no point in the game did I feel her nor Vaan should have been apart of this team.

The ending was also horrible and felt very short to me. I guess I was at least expecting a much longer and better ending. One where we get to see why this group chose to stick with each until the end or if there was so kind of bound between them that they could never show during the game for some reason.

Overall I give this a 3/10, it gets 3 instead of 1.5 because the graphics were the only thing that kept me interested in the game, not the story or the characters.

Btw the Espers were more the most worthless part of the game then anything else. Penelo and Vaan now come in second.

[Jmacq1]

The thing is, Vaan isn't really the "main character". Part of the whole idea behind the party in FF XII was that they were all "main characters" in their own way... Heck, I'd argue that Ashe and Basch were more the "main characters" than Vaan and Penelo ever were. Vaan and Penelo are there to provide the "everyman/woman" perspective, as opposed to the more storied individuals they find themselves surrounded with.

Or more accurately, it's meant to be an "ensemble" cast rather than 1-3 "leads" and a bunch of supporting characters (as occurs in most FF games prior to this one).

And if you think the Espers were worthless...you probably weren't using them very well. They're not as useful as Quickenings, but they're far from useless. And just like the Quickenings, there are some "tricks" to using them that make them a lot more effective.

[Titan76]

The thing is, Vaan isn't really the "main character".
Which was the main problem of the story. In all the FF games there is always a main male character(which Vaan was suppose to be), this game really didn't have one and so it was harder to center the story around the group because they couldn't even really center it around one person.

Part of the whole idea behind the party in FF XII was that they were all "main characters" in their own way... Heck, I'd argue that Ashe and Basch were more the "main characters" than Vaan and Penelo ever were.
Agree which is why I don't think Vaan and Penelo should have even been in it. They served no true purpose in the story or even in the end. Their roles were truly pointless and should have never been in the game.

If I could redo this I would have rather seen a cast of Ashe, Basch, Larsa, Balthier, Fran, and Rasler as the main character. I felt that the only reason why they had Rasler killed off was to make room for Vaan. I mean I could think of a dozen ways to write Rasler back into the story without being killed and why he should have been the main character.

Another thing I would have done is make Balthier independent from this war. Him being the son of the mad scientist guy who works for the Empire was just so dumb to me. I would have rather they just had him and Fran in this for the money and adventure like real pirates(in a way).

Sure they could give Balthier a small orgin story but it would be seperate as much as it could from the main story.
Vaan and Penelo are there to provide the "everyman/woman" perspective, as opposed to the more storied individuals they find themselves surrounded with.
Not a bad idea but it was done badly and didn't do anything to further the story at all. So imo they shouldn't have even been in it.

Or more accurately, it's meant to be an "ensemble" cast rather than 1-3 "leads" and a bunch of supporting characters (as occurs in most FF games prior to this one).
Which is a much better system. When done correctly it tells great stories like FFVII and FFX. Having all the cast as the main characters does....can not work.

And if you think the Espers were worthless...you probably weren't using them very well. They're not as useful as Quickenings, but they're far from useless. And just like the Quickenings, there are some "tricks" to using them that make them a lot more effective.
The Espers were worthless because truly I never needed them nor could I control them which suck. The Espers were never worth spending one of my mist charges on because one Quickening chain was better(I got 16 hits in row three times) and two because I could use it on better things like healing etc.

It would have been better if you could just summon the Espers without losing any of your mist charges and control them rather then having the dumb Gambit system controling them.

[Jmacq1]

Which was the main problem of the story. In all the FF games there is always a main male character(which Vaan was suppose to be), this game really didn't have one and so it was harder to center the story around the group because they couldn't even really center it around one person.

Here's the difficulty: The story -was- the center. It was a plot-driven game as opposed to a character-driven game. Two very different animals.

Agree which is why I don't think Vaan and Penelo should have even been in it. They served no true purpose in the story or even in the end. Their roles were truly pointless and should have never been in the game.

You must have missed that "everyman" part below. They're the "commoners" that are caught up in events larger than themselves. Or the "inexperienced kids" caught up in same. They're pretty much blank slates, and were intended that way to begin with. It's perfectly OK not to like that approach, but it didn't bother me in the least.

If I could redo this I would have rather seen a cast of Ashe, Basch, Larsa, Balthier, Fran, and Rasler as the main character. I felt that the only reason why they had Rasler killed off was to make room for Vaan. I mean I could think of a dozen ways to write Rasler back into the story without being killed and why he should have been the main character.

Keeping Rasler alive just hamstrings Ashe as a character. Just because you preferred a supporting character over the characters the game runs with doesn't mean the story would have been better with him included more prominently. Unless you're just sad that there wasn't more "romance" in the game (which admittedly was one thing I felt was lacking in XII), Rasler serves little point aside from potentially being a "kewler" character to project Gary Stu-ness on.

Another thing I would have done is make Balthier independent from this war. Him being the son of the mad scientist guy who works for the Empire was just so dumb to me. I would have rather they just had him and Fran in this for the money and adventure like real pirates(in a way).

Sure they could give Balthier a small orgin story but it would be seperate as much as it could from the main story.

Making him related to the main story gives him a real reason to be involved. Because let's face it, if he were just in it for the money, he wouldn't stick around for most of the game anyhow. I thought his arc was one of the best in the game.

Not a bad idea but it was done badly and didn't do anything to further the story at all. So imo they shouldn't have even been in it.

See above. They were less interesting precisely because they're -not- the plot-drivers. They're just along for the ride/caught up in things over their head. It seems like you were looking for them to be more "pivotal" than they really were, and were disappointed because (for once) the game took a slightly more realistic approach to how relationships between this varied group of people would probably work (IE the nobles/soldiers/more experienced folks taking the lead).


Which is a much better system. When done correctly it tells great stories like FFVII and FFX. Having all the cast as the main characters does....can not work.

Can't work why? Because you say so? I thought it worked quite well in FF XII. Clearly your opinion differs, which is fine. But to make the blanket statement that it "can't work" is patently false...unless you add the "for me" to the end of the statement. If you prefer character driven stories to plot-driven stories, that's fine too. But it doesn't necessarily make the plot-driven stories inherently "bad." Just means they're not your cup of tea.

Personally, I don't think FF VII has all that great of a story (blasphemy, I know). Sure I thought it was cool when it first came out, but it's never been my favorite FF, and I thought FFs before and after it had superior characters -and- story. VII isn't bad (I'd definitely put it in the "upper half" of FFs), and the character designs were great, but I'd say XII was vastly superior to it in terms of story, if not in characters. I did rather enjoy X though.

The Espers were worthless because truly I never needed them nor could I control them which suck. The Espers were never worth spending one of my mist charges on because one Quickening chain was better(I got 16 hits in row three times) and two because I could use it on better things like healing etc.

It would have been better if you could just summon the Espers without losing any of your mist charges and control them rather then having the dumb Gambit system controling them.

So once again, because you couldn't figure out the system behind using them, you didn't like them. That's fine, but I think being able to summon them on a whim and not having to factor in -any- strategy behind using them would have been lame. Basically you wanted a powerful toy you could do anything with without any weaknesses? Plug in that game-shark and code up the "Infinite MP"....there you go.

Clearly you have issues with the fundamental gameplay, too (since the system is "dumb"), but you give little explanation as to why it's so inferior, particularly when there's clearly a fairly sizable group of people that think this is a high-quality game and potentially the best FF to date (or close to it). The Gambits may mean you have to be a little more strategic than in the past (but honestly not much more), but in the end all it's doing is cutting down repetitive-motion injuries from your thumb pressing the button a billion times a day. Now you can just tell your characters to automatically do the things you'd be telling them to do anyway. Most people that hate the Gambit system (but not all) are probably folks that haven't really figured out how to use it well. It can be as simple or complex as the player wants it to be. Heaven forbid the player have to think and prioritize a bit to get the best results.

Nevermind that if they really want to the player can control all the characters anyhow.

[Xero Kaiser]

With the exception of Tactics, FF12 destroys every other FF game put together. You can tell actual effort went into the writing and story. Not just, "GRRRR I'M THE VILLAIN AND I'M GONNA EAT THE WORLDZ FER NO REASON!!!" (i.e. Kefka, Sephiroth, Sin, Vegnagun, X-death, Necron, whoever the last boss of FF8 was). And hey, I actually have to change up my strategy and pay attention during fights. In past FFs (hell, most JRPGs in general) I can buy the latest weapon and just attack, attack, attack, attack without even looking at the screen. And serious LOLs @ FF7 having a "great" story.

Espers are amazingly useless though.

[Killer Bee]

With the exception of Tactics, FF12 destroys every other FF game put together. You can tell actual effort went into the writing and story. Not just, "GRRRR I'M THE VILLAIN AND I'M GONNA EAT THE WORLDZ FER NO REASON!!!" (i.e. Kefka, Sephiroth, Sin, Vegnagun, X-death, Necron, whoever the last boss of FF8 was). And hey, I actually have to change up my strategy and pay attention during fights. In past FFs (hell, most JRPGs in general) I can buy the latest weapon and just attack, attack, attack, attack without even looking at the screen. And serious LOLs @ FF7 having a "great" story.

Espers are amazingly useless though.

Hey Xero, would you happen to have a long lost twin out there somewhere...possibly me, because that is EXACTLY how I feel about FF12 as well as the series as a whole.

[Lester C.]

The story was good, but the pacing was very slow.

[Super Samurai]

So I take it it took you guys around a month to beat it. Well that's just perfect as I just got the game and I happen to have a month long vacation.

[Lester C.]

So I take it it took you guys around a month to beat it. Well that's just perfect as I just got the game and I happen to have a month long vacation.

That depends. This is a lengthy game, but they spent a really long time in the hunting sidequests which takes quite a bit of time to complete due to all the backtracking involved it might take you twice as long to beat this game.

[Super Samurai]

That depends. This is a lengthy game, but they spent a really long time in the hunting sidequests which takes quite a bit of time to complete due to all the backtracking involved it might take you twice as long to beat this game.

Well coincidentally that's what I'm doing now. I can see how it can be addicting. Well the longer the better.

[Jmacq1]

Yeah, you can probably beat the "main" quest in a week or two of "casual" playing.

But if you're like me and get heavily involved in the sidequests, it's likely to be closer to a month.

[Titan76]

Here's the difficulty: The story -was- the center. It was a plot-driven game as opposed to a character-driven game. Two very different animals.
The thing is too the last time I look Final Fantasy is or at least was a character driven game.

And the story was boring to me, I could never get into it or get any feel for any of the characters because none were really focused on. The only thing I like about he game were the hunts.

You must have missed that "everyman" part below. They're the "commoners" that are caught up in events larger than themselves. Or the "inexperienced kids" caught up in same. They're pretty much blank slates, and were intended that way to begin with. It's perfectly OK not to like that approach, but it didn't bother me in the least.
I didn't miss what you are saying but I guess you missed what I was saying. I don't care if they are the commoners or everyday people, it just that like you said the where Blank slates that had no true purpose in the story. Hell most of the time I forgot they were even there. I actually like characters that either have a purpose in the story or can find one. Penelo only purpose for being in that story was because she got kidnap and Vaan's was his brother was killed. Not to much to work with there.
Keeping Rasler alive just hamstrings Ashe as a character. Just because you preferred a supporting character over the characters the game runs with doesn't mean the story would have been better with him included more prominently. Unless you're just sad that there wasn't more "romance" in the game (which admittedly was one thing I felt was lacking in XII), Rasler serves little point aside from potentially being a "kewler" character to project Gary Stu-ness on.
Keeping Rasler alive is just one example that I was giving in were there could have been a better team. During the game I thinking about what kind of role he could have played if he were alive and thought of a few things but I don't want to get way off subject in that part.

And no I wasn't sad that there wasn't any romance in the game, it didn't bother me at all. Although I will confess being that this is a FF game I was kind of expecting one.
Making him related to the main story gives him a real reason to be involved. Because let's face it, if he were just in it for the money, he wouldn't stick around for most of the game anyhow. I thought his arc was one of the best in the game.
Balthier made clear before we found out that Cid was his father that he was sticking around not just for the money but was curious to see how this all ended. I just got the impression from him that since being a Sky Pirate this was a cool adventure and one he wanted to see how it ended. That wouldn't have bother me.

See above. They were less interesting precisely because they're -not- the plot-drivers. They're just along for the ride/caught up in things over their head. It seems like you were looking for them to be more "pivotal" than they really were, and were disappointed because (for once) the game took a slightly more realistic approach to how relationships between this varied group of people would probably work (IE the nobles/soldiers/more experienced folks taking the lead).
Call me crazy but what I was really looking for was a Final Fantasy game not a game that was using the name Final Fantasy to boast it's sales. I don't care for a more realistic approach to how something would really turn out in a world that is already not realistic. I was looking to see the characters at least try to make so kind of bound between themselves as a group and have at least one leading character since that is what Final Fantasy games have. This game to me was in no shape or form Final Fantasy and I'm not that much of a Final Fantasy fan.


Can't work why? Because you say so? I thought it worked quite well in FF XII. Clearly your opinion differs, which is fine. But to make the blanket statement that it "can't work" is patently false...unless you add the "for me" to the end of the statement.
Why should I add the "for me" in my posts? Because you don't know that on a message board all posts on here are infact opinions of the person who is posting them? If you didn't know that then I apologize.

And just to add to my opinion on why having all the cast members the main characters of a story doesn't work is because its impossible to give all the characters any actual character development because your story is so center around all of the characters that you don't have the room to do it. Unless you make the story longer but then by making the story longer you are then focusing to much time on all of the characters that you go of track of the main story line.

I mean to me the story has to have good characters in it for it to be a good story but I guess for others that isn't so which is fine.

If you prefer character driven stories to plot-driven stories, that's fine too. But it doesn't necessarily make the plot-driven stories inherently "bad." Just means they're not your cup of tea.
The thing is though Final Fantasy to my knowledge has always been a character driven story which is why I bought it and was expecting. If this hadn't been a FF game then I could judge it better because it would be on its own and not apart of the FF universe or whatever you want to call it.

Personally, I don't think FF VII has all that great of a story (blasphemy, I know). Sure I thought it was cool when it first came out, but it's never been my favorite FF, and I thought FFs before and after it had superior characters -and- story. VII isn't bad (I'd definitely put it in the "upper half" of FFs), and the character designs were great, but I'd say XII was vastly superior to it in terms of story, if not in characters. I did rather enjoy X though.
I thought FF VII was a good story though it too isn't my favorite one, the movie made me like it more then I original did. XII just didn't seem like it was a Final Fantasy game to me. The creators change to much in this one and made it felt more like a non-Final Fantasy game to me. And to be honest this game felt more like a Star Wars game to me without the Jedi/Sith being in it of course.

[Titan76]

Part 2


So once again, because you couldn't figure out the system behind using them, you didn't like them. That's fine, but I think being able to summon them on a whim and not having to factor in -any- strategy behind using them would have been lame. Basically you wanted a powerful toy you could do anything with without any weaknesses? Plug in that game-shark and code up the "Infinite MP"....there you go.
Thank you for putting words in my mouth and trying to state facts I never said.

I did figure out the Gambit system but I didn't like it but I guess according to you just because I don't like it means I couldn't figure it out right?

And because other Final Fantasy games didn't have the Gambit system means that players never came up with any strategy on how to use the Espers(I know they are always called something different but I will use this name for now) because it seems you never did I guess right?

In the other FF games I was surprisingly not only able to come up with different strategies for my Espers but was able to do it without the Gambit system and (this is the big one) also without the game-shark to give me all that extra MP. Ever Esper had its strengths in certain fights and I would make sure I would use those strengths.

Not only that but you can call me old fashion but I like being able to control my characters in battle rather then having the game doing it for me. Mainly because I think of different ways on how to take down boss and always changing my mind on how best to attack. But with this Gambit system I could set my moves in the Gambit slots and leave the game to make myself something to eat and when I come back the game beats the boss for me.

I would rather do it myself since it gives me more of a challenge but that's just me.

Clearly you have issues with the fundamental gameplay, too (since the system is "dumb"), but you give little explanation as to why it's so inferior, particularly when there's clearly a fairly sizable group of people that think this is a high-quality game and potentially the best FF to date (or close to it).
Like how you give little explanation as to why its so superior(since the system is "great") particularly when there have been clearly a fairly sizable group of people that think its not a high-quality game and potentially not the best FF game to date.

The Gambits may mean you have to be a little more strategic than in the past (but honestly not much more),
Or less.

but in the end all it's doing is cutting down repetitive-motion injuries from your thumb pressing the button a billion times a day.
Funny I never had such injuries. Guess I got a strong thumb.

Now you can just tell your characters to automatically do the things you'd be telling them to do anyway.
Yeah, having the game do it for you is much better then doing it yourself. Its like you don't even need to play the game, next they will have a way in which you don't even need to move the character it will do it for you. You just have to some how tell them were to go. Wow that's so much more fun.
Most people that hate the Gambit system (but not all) are probably folks that haven't really figured out how to use it well. It can be as simple or complex as the player wants it to be. Heaven forbid the player have to think and prioritize a bit to get the best results.
Or heaven forbid those of us who do know how to use it still don't like it. I also didn't like the Quickenings either but I guess that is because I didn't get how to use them even though I got 16 hits in a row a few times.

Nevermind that if they really want to the player can control all the characters anyhow.
But with the way the battles are set up if you turn off the Gambit system its too difficult to do anything because you have bosses or Skull warriors beaten the crap out of you while you try to decide how best to take them out.

The way I just finally decided how to use the Gambit system is that I put two gambits on all my brawlers which were attack leaders target and target nearest to you. But for my two healer I had three, the first one being to heal the party and then attack and I still beat the crap out of nearly every boss I fought against. But there were times that I would have to do ever things(without using the Gambit System) in order to beat so and so.

[Xero Kaiser]

But with the way the battles are set up if you turn off the Gambit system its too difficult to do anything because you have bosses or Skull warriors beaten the crap out of you while you try to decide how best to take them out.


Psst...turn on wait mode. Problem solved

If this hadn't been a FF game then I could judge it better because it would be on its own and not apart of the FF universe or whatever you want to call it.

What FF universe would that be? It's not like there's much continuity between the games

Call me crazy but what I was really looking for was a Final Fantasy game not a game that was using the name Final Fantasy to boast it's sales.

....what does that even mean? FF games change constantly. You think FF7 looked or felt anything like any of the previous FF games? It was a huge departure. So were the ones that used job systems. I don't get all the, "OMG they changed FF" when FF's been changing since it came out. This isn't the first time FF's gameplay has changed but the setting, the battle system, the magic/espers, are all inspired by past FF games. I don't see how this is FF in name only any more than other FF games are.

But with this Gambit system I could set my moves in the Gambit slots and leave the game to make myself something to eat and when I come back the game beats the boss for me.

No you can't. Certainly not with your gambits. Your setup is similar to mine and I can't even get past regular enemies that way. Your gambits have nothing set up for status effects, ressurections, buffs, items, quickenings or anything you'd actually need to take down a boss. Exaggerate less

[Titan76]

Psst...turn on wait mode. Problem solved
I didn't find out about this until after I beat the game when a friend of my told me. But its not really the wait mode that I had a problem with not being in the game its that I didn't like the battle system for this game. Nor the license board.
What FF universe would that be? It's not like there's much continuity between the games
not apart of the FF universe or whatever you want to call it.
It really isn't a universe but there are similarities in each game. Like there are always summoning creatures, same type of magic spells, turn base system, things like that is what I meant.

....what does that even mean?
FF games change constantly. You think FF7 looked or felt anything like any of the previous FF games? It was a huge departure. So were the ones that used job systems. I don't get all the, "OMG they changed FF" when FF's been changing since it came out. This isn't the first time FF's gameplay has changed but the setting, the battle system, the magic/espers, are all inspired by past FF games. I don't see how this is FF in name only any more than other FF games are.
Pretty much all FF games are character driven which this one wasn't, have the turn based system, similar battle systems, things like that. I mean they are little things in a way but the character driven part is something that was not used in this game which I didn't like.

No you can't. Certainly not with your gambits. Your setup is similar to mine and I can't even get past regular enemies that way. Your gambits have nothing set up for status effects, resurrections, buffs, items, quickenings or anything you'd actually need to take down a boss. Exaggerate less
If I were to use the Gambit system the way the Walk-though tells you to, yes I pretty much don't have to do a thing. You can put cures in your Gambit slots that will take care of the status effects, resurrections, and you can also list different ways to attack bosses you know. I chose however to do it on my own.

Edit: As for the bold spot, I put permanent gambit slots on my characters though out most of the game and would manually change tactics depending on certain enemies.

[Xero Kaiser]

Like there are always summoning creatures, same type of magic spells, turn base system, things like that is what I meant.

Which are still present in FF12. Though, FF hasn't had a strict turn based system since, what...FF5? And I don't think summons were always in FF. So saying that things were always like that isn't really accurate. Even the magic's changed a few times

[Astonishing X-Fan]

While there are differences between them, the pure fact is the basic fundamentals of the games from 1-10 did not ever heavily change. There were different magic systems, skill systems, and so on...but the very core of the battle system has remained the same.

11 changed that. But it was a completely different kind of game. I still think it should not have been part of the core series.

I was expecting 12 to return to the style I know and love. But it didn't. It stayed changed.

How anyone can not notice that the basic fundamentals of 12 are apart from 1-10 I will never understand.

I'm not going to sit here and say you shouldn't like it. but I AM going to say that I don't like it. I didn't want change. I wanted a game that felt like, at it's very core, 1-10. But it doesn't. And because of that, it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy to me.

It's a very well-made game. But it's not what I wanted, and not what I'm looking for. If the trend continues with 13, I may end up leaving what was once my favorite franchise.

[Lester C.]

While there are differences between them, the pure fact is the basic fundamentals of the games from 1-10 did not ever heavily change. There were different magic systems, skill systems, and so on...but the very core of the battle system has remained the same.

11 changed that. But it was a completely different kind of game. I still think it should not have been part of the core series.

I was expecting 12 to return to the style I know and love. But it didn't. It stayed changed.

How anyone can not notice that the basic fundamentals of 12 are apart from 1-10 I will never understand.

I'm not going to sit here and say you shouldn't like it. but I AM going to say that I don't like it. I didn't want change. I wanted a game that felt like, at it's very core, 1-10. But it doesn't. And because of that, it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy to me.

It's a very well-made game. But it's not what I wanted, and not what I'm looking for. If the trend continues with 13, I may end up leaving what was once my favorite franchise.

I've noticed that most people that have never played a final fantasy game before XI love this game with no reseverations. Its the veterens like you and me are the ones that are not enjoying this game when compared to past games in the series.

[Jmacq1]

Except for veterans like me who think it's right up there with the best of the series.

Just like anything else, there's always going to be those that don't like some changes. Whether the "gambit system" remains in effect after 12 or goes the way of the "draw/junction system" remains to be seen. But god forbid a game series evolve.

As far as "basic fundamentals", it's entirely subjective to what you consider "basic fundamentals" to be. "Turn based combat" was never that big a deal for me, and I certainly didn't consider it "fundamental" to a successful FF game. More like: Airships? Check. Moogles? Check. Chocobos? Check. Spell names? Check. Summoned Monsters? Check. Special Attacks/Limit Breaks/Whatever? Check. Item names? Check.

The real truth is that the game has almost as much in common with past FFs as any FF game does with its' predecessors. It's "common elements" are generally more about the "window dressing" than the gameplay, which has been changing every game since, oh...FF II or so.

But I suppose somewhere out there there's probably someone that thought it was sacrelige that the game ever brought 3D graphics and FMV cutscenes into the franchise.

[Xero Kaiser]

While there are differences between them, the pure fact is the basic fundamentals of the games from 1-10 did not ever heavily change. There were different magic systems, skill systems, and so on...but the very core of the battle system has remained the same.

Lawl?

Yes it did. Turn-based, ATB, CTB, job systems, dress spheres, draw/junction materia and whatever system FF11 used. How the hell can you say that the magic, skill and core of the battle systems changed without ever changing? That doesn't make sense. Gambits aside (which are the only part of the core system that really changed), this is just a modified ATB system. License board? Just a modified dress sphere/sphere grid/materia/junction system.

11 changed that. But it was a completely different kind of game. I still think it should not have been part of the core series.

But the fact is it was. FF changes with every installment. 6 didn't feel like 7, 7 didn't feel like 8, 8 didn't feel like 9, 9 didn't feel like 10, 10 didn't feel like 11, 11 didn't feel like 12 and 12 doesn't look like it's got much in common with 13. Some of these changes are going to be bigger than others but if you're expecting some kind of unified "feel" in a series that makes a habit of making each installment different from the last, then don't get your hopes up for FF13


The real truth is that the game has almost as much in common with past FFs as any FF game does with its' predecessors. It's "common elements" are generally more about the "window dressing" than the gameplay, which has been changing every game since, oh...FF II or so.

Thank you

[comicstar100]

Well I wouldn't consider myself a veteran FF fan, But 10 is one of my favorite games of all time along with 7 and even though I love both those turn based games it doesn't stop me from enjoying this one. I'm guessing this system is closer to what phanasty star has. Sure its different but I've always looked at Final Fantasy as more of a epic you play through rather than a game. It still has a good story, it still has characters that I know I will love after I finish it. All in all I enjoy it. So I guess it just really depends on what you like more about Final Fantasy the story or the battle system.

[Robotech Master]

I haven't gotten around to playing FF12 yet, but from the arguments going around on this board, I'll probably actually like it, seeing as how I never liked FF 1 through 10. Well, I kinda like III, and I like the Tactics games.

I like Turn Based Strategy games like Disgaea and Tactics, but I tend to like it when my RPG's stray from the archaic turn-based and random battle formulas.

As for "the game plays it for you," the system that's been described here sounds a lot like the battle system from Baldur's Gate D&D games, with a few additions, and I loved those games.

[Jmacq1]

I think the closer comparison (for my part) is that it plays like a deeper/more complex version (Battle system wise) of "Knights of the Old Republic" or "Jade Empire"

[Robotech Master]

Yeah, though Knights of the Old Republic, IIRC, was developed by the team that did the Baldur's Gate games. Either that or at least the core company.

[Jmacq1]

Yep, same company (Bioware).

[Agent Helix]

KotOR was such a letdown for me, as a fan of BioWare. It was like a PC rpg, but totally dumbed down.

[yeoman]

Except for veterans like me who think it's right up there with the best of the series.

Just like anything else, there's always going to be those that don't like some changes. Whether the "gambit system" remains in effect after 12 or goes the way of the "draw/junction system" remains to be seen. But god forbid a game series evolve.


Ah, the ever popular "If you don't like it you're a backwards hick that fears change" reply. Ever a favorite.

And this isn't evolution. This is a radical shift away from what was.

That isn't necessarily good or bad, but can people stop acting like this was some minor change and that anyone that didn't like it is a slack jawed yokel?

[AllisterH]

I kind of liked that the story didn't revolve around Vaan or Penelo.

I liked that the story wasn't your typical party of pluchy adventurers versus the "I'm going to rule/remake/destroy the universe" badguy.

I liked that there wasn't that much of a romance.

I'm not stating that I want to see this in every FF game but just like how every FF game changes the mechanics, I'm glad that Square is at least willing to play artound with the fluff behind the FF game.

[ddqfpluskick]

As the first FF games ever played for more than five minutes (FFI for SP). I found FF XII to be a delightful game. I cannot really compare it to any other FF games. The closest I can find is the .hack series I played. Actually battle mode is very similar. The only difference s you can group command in .hack.

While I agree the gambit system takes away a lot of control I found it a lot more easier to manage the field. I also find it makes the characters more real. I mean rather than computer characters I have to tell what to do and when to do it. I got somebody who looks like they are thinking. Maybe an over all command system would be better where one could issue ot commands without going through menu after menu. Personally I just have the leader without gambits.

Things I didn't like

Weather patterns - Raining to find this guy, snowing to find this creature arg I try for thirty minutes of walking in and out of the area to find this guy and still nothing. I give up and move on. But still I hated this waiting game.

[Joshua Pantalleresco]

This game is crack. It's addicting, wonderful to play and lots of fun. It might as well be liquid cocaine.

JP

[SUPERECWFAN1]

People are gonna laugh but with time to play FF 12 can anyone really help me pull up the World Map and Party map ? It says from the strategy guide to equip the thing to go hunt the Tomato Monster but I can't.

The Map won't pull up. Help would be ok if someone can.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well after 30+ minutes of reading the manual and strategy guide I had to quit. My nerves are fried and pissed that the game obviously won't let me pull up the freakin Map to equip anything.

It says push traingle button , I have. I've pushed all the buttons and a combination of them all at some point. Anyone have anything to say why the World Map/Party Menu won't come up ?

Edit: Its enough to piss me off from the game in general. I mean I waited years to have a game where I can't even get into the f-cking screen to update the character ? What kinda b.s. is this ?

I'm happy others like it but I'm pissed off at it.

[MaxofSteel]

Hm. It's strange that the triangle button won't work. Have you tried select? That brings up the map of the town/area you're in. But opening the party menu requires the triangle button, so I really don't know what to tell ya.

Maybe its your controller? Does the button work on any other games?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Hm. It's strange that the triangle button won't work. Have you tried select? That brings up the map of the town/area you're in. But opening the party menu requires the triangle button, so I really don't know what to tell ya.

Maybe its your controller? Does the button work on any other games?

After I watch some TV I'm gonna try it again. I did play some Madden the other night and had no problems with the controller. Maybe I have to hold down the traingle button to make it work. Or the select button.

Perhaps the dual shock maybe screwing with my controller. I'm gonna restart the entire game ( I only stopped at the Tomato Hunt) and try it without dualshock on.

[Xero Kaiser]

Well after 30+ minutes of reading the manual and strategy guide I had to quit. My nerves are fried and pissed that the game obviously won't let me pull up the freakin Map to equip anything.

It says push traingle button , I have. I've pushed all the buttons and a combination of them all at some point. Anyone have anything to say why the World Map/Party Menu won't come up ?

Edit: Its enough to piss me off from the game in general. I mean I waited years to have a game where I can't even get into the f-cking screen to update the character ? What kinda b.s. is this ?

I'm happy others like it but I'm pissed off at it.

Sounds like you need to be mad at your controller

Perhaps the dual shock maybe screwing with my controller. I'm gonna restart the entire game ( I only stopped at the Tomato Hunt) and try it without dualshock on.

You kinda need the analog sticks to move your character, so that won't work

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Sounds like you need to be mad at your controller



You kinda need the analog sticks to move your character, so that won't work

I meant the vibrator being on. Maybe I should turn the vibration off on the controller and see what happens.

[MaxofSteel]

I got a few questions for the FF12 vets. I'm at my first Judge battle after rescuing Ashe in the airship, and this boss is giving me much grief. What do you folks recomend along the lines of Gambits, armor, items and so on for prep? Also what's the best way to go about this fight? I'm at roughly level 12-13 on average. Should I attempt to level up?

Also is it just me, or is fleeing from a battle with a monster incredibly slow? I'm using the proper flee command but to no avail, and I've bitten the dust many times trying to escape strong monsters that relentlessly chase me, and ALWAYS catch up to me. It's a pain in the butt. Any tips?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm gonna have to buy a new controller. Has this happened to anyone else ? Because I can't even pull up the Party screen or the Map when the game 1st starts with Vaan's brother.

Could the controller be going bad causing it to screw up ? Because this is the 1st time its ever happened to me.

[MaxofSteel]

Could the controller be going bad causing it to screw up ? Because this is the 1st time its ever happened to me.

Try it out with another game, and if it keeps up then trash the dern thing and get yerself another controller. Or just skip the middleman and get a new controller anyway. It's always good to have a spare.

I bought a used PSTwo from my local pawn shop a few months back and it came with a messed up controller. The analogue sticks didn't work and sometimes the controller crapped out altogether, forcing me to unplug/replug it. So I saved myself the stress and picked up a new one.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Try it out with another game, and if it keeps up then trash the dern thing and get yerself another controller. Or just skip the middleman and get a new controller anyway. It's always good to have a spare.

I bought a used PSTwo from my local pawn shop a few months back and it came with a messed up controller. The analogue sticks didn't work and sometimes the controller crapped out altogether, forcing me to unplug/replug it. So I saved myself the stress and picked up a new one.

This is the 1st instance its going bad though. Usually the triangle button works on the other games I have. I'm thinking perhaps where FF 12 is a real new game it could be a reason I'm thinking. So I'll go and get a new controller tomorrow.

[Xero Kaiser]

I got a few questions for the FF12 vets. I'm at my first Judge battle after rescuing Ashe in the airship, and this boss is giving me much grief. What do you folks recomend along the lines of Gambits, armor, items and so on for prep? Also what's the best way to go about this fight? I'm at roughly level 12-13 on average. Should I attempt to level up?

Also is it just me, or is fleeing from a battle with a monster incredibly slow? I'm using the proper flee command but to no avail, and I've bitten the dust many times trying to escape strong monsters that relentlessly chase me, and ALWAYS catch up to me. It's a pain in the butt. Any tips?

I had Balthier equipped with Silent shot. Once Ghis couldn't cast any spells, I bent him over and brought the rape

Because I can't even pull up the Party screen or the Map when the game 1st starts with Vaan's brother.

I don't think you have access to those yet.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I don't think you have access to those yet.


Well there I can understand but when I get to the quest to kill the Tomato Monster it still won't pull up the party screen so I can equip the object Tomaj gave me. Its says in the strategy guide to equip it as does the game.

[ddqfpluskick]

I got a few questions for the FF12 vets. I'm at my first Judge battle after rescuing Ashe in the airship, and this boss is giving me much grief. What do you folks recomend along the lines of Gambits, armor, items and so on for prep? Also what's the best way to go about this fight? I'm at roughly level 12-13 on average. Should I attempt to level up?

Also is it just me, or is fleeing from a battle with a monster incredibly slow? I'm using the proper flee command but to no avail, and I've bitten the dust many times trying to escape strong monsters that relentlessly chase me, and ALWAYS catch up to me. It's a pain in the butt. Any tips?

Well if you have the bangle quip you will see Ghis is at level 14. This should make you at a descent level to engage him.

Let see.....Judges are mostly heavy hitters with aggression as their key strength. They won't try anything fancy with status effects so don't bother with many item/effect gambits. Me I'm a pure attacker I don't really bother with magic (besides healing) until the high level spells coe into play.

A good team to have.
Basch - he's your heavy hitter. With a good sword and shield he makes for a pretty good offensive character.
Balthier - Armed with gun he makes for a good distance fighter. This way he overrides Ghis's defense.
??? - Depending on the license you open this position could be anyone. Make sure the have MP cost reductions and healing spells on hand. Don't forget to use potions. While the don't have the impact when heavy healing spells calong. They are quicker to use than healing spells and give the relatively same amounts early in the game. Distance is also important here, especially with Fran who is frail to close combat early in the game. If you want to use her and Balthier. License him for melee weapons and keep Fran with a bow and healing.

The key to victory is armor and healing.

[titanfan]

I'm gonna have to buy a new controller. Has this happened to anyone else ? Because I can't even pull up the Party screen or the Map when the game 1st starts with Vaan's brother.

Actually it's the game I think. I had *huge* problems with the game with the dual shock on. I was able to figure it out because my screen would kind of lock up every time the shock went on.

I went to the forums and there was a thread about it with others saying the same thing.

Just turn the shock thing off and you won't have any problems.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Actually it's the game I think. I had *huge* problems with the game with the dual shock on. I was able to figure it out because my screen would kind of lock up every time the shock went on.

I went to the forums and there was a thread about it with others saying the same thing.

Just turn the shock thing off and you won't have any problems.

I did turn the shock off. Its still not working right still.

[Super Samurai]

Have you tried going to the eastern sands and pressing triangle there?

[MaxofSteel]

Hey thanx for the tips Xero Kaiser and ddqfpluskick. I'll see what I can do now.

Btw is it worth leveling up via the guards on the ship? 'Cause from my save spot in the jail cell, the guards start a mob chase straight to Judge Ghis. If the fighting is fruitless, then I might as well start from my previous save just before the rescue mission.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Have you tried going to the eastern sands and pressing triangle there?

Tried it there too. Won't pull up. I may have a faulty game or a faulty controller. If its the game I kept the reciept so I can take it back and exchange it.

[ddqfpluskick]

Hey thanx for the tips Xero Kaiser and ddqfpluskick. I'll see what I can do now.

Btw is it worth leveling up via the guards on the ship? 'Cause from my save spot in the jail cell, the guards start a mob chase straight to Judge Ghis. If the fighting is fruitless, then I might as well start from my previous save just before the rescue mission.

Yeah that's a good idea too. Being one or two levels above the boss is a good advantage.

[titanfan]

Also, if you don't have enough Quickenings to at least a 3 hit combo to wipe out the guards right away, you might want to think about getting a few on the grid board. The battle will become more manageable if it's just your guys vs. Ghis.

[Jmacq1]

Actually it's the game I think. I had *huge* problems with the game with the dual shock on. I was able to figure it out because my screen would kind of lock up every time the shock went on.

I went to the forums and there was a thread about it with others saying the same thing.

Just turn the shock thing off and you won't have any problems.

Question for you and Superecwfan1:

How old are your PS2s? I've had Dual Shock on and had no problems whatsoever with my controls. The PS2 I'm using is the last version they came out with before the "slim" model (The larger model with the built-in infrared receiver for the remote, basically).

[SUPERECWFAN1]

My PS2 is about 2 years old. I had to buy a new one after 4 years since my launch PS2 ( Thats when I bought it) finally went kaput on me. The games have all played well , so have DVD's. I haven't had a PS2 problem since I bought this new consule.