Post Civil War: Captain America & Scarlet Witch [Archive]

Black_Shift

10-20-2006, 02:06 AM

I probably missed the thread about the Captain trying to move in on Vision's wife... But a question popped in my head the other day: After Civil War, after the return of the Witch; Will we see the Steve/Wanda romance start up again?

I, for one, would like to see this happen. I don't know the whole story because I was out of comics at the time, but in Avengers: Disassembled I noticed Cap was really heartbroken because of what was happening to Wanda, and I peeped that cover of the two locking lips, so I put 3 and 4 together and got 7...

So, anyway back to reasons why I think this would be some compelling story in multiple books...

1. Young Avengers - Wiccan & Speed, Wanda's kids, they are currently allied with Captain America and have trained under him, they have said that they would like to go find Mommy Dearest. The amount of drama that could come of that is quite thick on many levels. Plus we have The Vision, he looks like Wanda's now dead husband, but acts like Iron Lad and has "feelings" for Cassie... duck, I see the mud flying.

2. Mighty Avengers - Heir Stark is still miffed about ol' Witchy, just look how he's acting... Tony would love to get his hands on Wanda and try to make her pay for all of the things Bendis made her do, and we already know that Cap and Shell Head could give two flying leaps about one another so that leads me to...

3. Secret Avengers - Cap sets out to find Wanda after Hawkeye lets him know that they're both on the run, and we get to see the drama between those three, plus the exciting Hunt for the Witch as Tony comes knocking while Steve does everything in his power to save Wanda and clear her name...

4. X-Factor - Quicksilver. X-Factor. De-Powered Mutant Town. Scarlet Witch. You do the math.

All I know for sure is... I want MY SCARLET WITCH BACK!!!

Jmacq1

10-20-2006, 04:16 AM

I dunno. While I thought the idea of Cap and Wanda together was cute, I'm not sure either of them would pursue it further. Because it was never really certain that Wanda actually -was- attracted to him, as opposed to just messing with his head.

And Steve himself would probably have a hard time believing that it was genuine, to boot. She basically was messing with his head pretty seriously during the whole "Disassembled" bit (giving him hallucinations, etc...). Plus Cap's pretty hot n' heavy with Sharon again now (though of course recent issues are putting the longevity of the reunion in doubt).

Anyway, while I wouldn't mind seeing it explored, I'm not sure that's the route they'll take. Heck, I'm not even sure they're going to allow Wanda to become a viable character again anytime soon.

Gnarl

10-20-2006, 05:04 AM

It would make for interesting relations with Magneto.

Today, the idea that you need the fathers permission to court a woman is quaint and oldfashioned.

Neither Cap nor Magneto is from today. They both had these notions imprinted during their formative years. And Cap prides himself on his moral fibre.

StoneGold

10-20-2006, 06:23 PM

I doubt it, simply because it wouldn't seem to jive well with Brubaker's style of book. It's sort of the equivalent of the Nightwing book when they tease him going out with Starfire. Kind of hard to operate solo when your girlfriend could pulverize your entire rogues gallery with her eyes closed. Granted, it's not the same situation exactly with Steve and Wanda, but close enough.

StoneGold

10-20-2006, 06:24 PM

Today, the idea that you need the fathers permission to court a woman is quaint and oldfashioned.

Meh, Maggie'd just be happy she's no longer banging the toaster.

Siddon

10-20-2006, 08:02 PM

I think so.... I mean lets face it things are getting really screwed up with the biggies.

Gnarl

10-21-2006, 01:08 PM

Meh, Maggie'd just be happy she's no longer banging the toaster.

Ah, but the toaster married her! Presumably first. To Cap and Magnetos generation that matters big!

I can just see the next Avengers mission against Magneto turning into an ugly domestic after someone lets it slip. With Spider-Man providing a running commentary.

Phrozen

10-22-2006, 08:31 AM

-S-Man-

10-22-2006, 11:30 AM

XPac

10-22-2006, 11:37 AM

I would love for that to happen, it would definately make a good read after Avengers Disassembled and HoM. Does anyone else think that the current Vission would be upset if his "wife" got off with someone else? If I were him I would be searching for her...

Has she come into the open yet?

The current Vision doesn't have Wonderman brain patters though... unless Kang had the hots for Wanda too he probably won't give a dam.

If anything, think it's more likely Wanda would get upset that Vision had the hots for Cassie.

-S-Man-

10-22-2006, 11:41 AM

I thought he might be having feelings for someone else but didn't want to voice it out loud :p I recon steve and wanda make a better match :D

jmc247

10-22-2006, 11:46 AM

No, it wouldn't. Wanda considers Django Maximoff her father not Magneto.

She considered Magneto her father in the 1980s when he was the headmaster of the X-Men and New Mutants.

Then they had him go bad again in the 1990s and they had a feminist "I am women hear me roar thing" going on with Wanda so those two combined to get the "biology does not make you my father" crap of the 1990s.

However, you will notice in House of M they changed their relationship once again to one where she just wanted them to be a family and just wanted him and Pietro to be happy, but he always put his mutant fight over her.

Whatever her relationship to Magneto is when she comes back will be up to the writers.

gyrich.

10-22-2006, 01:32 PM

Steve and Wanda and most of the dissembled storyline made very little sense to me. Maybe she was just after genetic material to recreate her kids as Wiccan and Speed?

Can't imagine them getting back together romantically...she was allegedly insane at the time.

Babylon23

10-22-2006, 06:21 PM

All I know for sure is... I want MY SCARLET WITCH BACK!!!

You and me both, my friend.

As for the Cap/Wanda relationship, I thought it was building up nicely in Cap/Falcon. I don't know if it was intended to tie into the events of Disassembled right from the outset or not, but I was annoyed when it did. It seemed like a natural progression on Wanda's part.

I'm all for it if it's handled well, and if it helps undo the damage done to Wanda in Disassembled. This is good:

http://img50.photobucket.com/albums/v152/Superpouvoir/1CAPFAL006_color.jpg

Dermie

10-22-2006, 07:38 PM

I probably missed the thread about the Captain trying to move in on Vision's wife...

The captain *never* tried to 'move in on the Vision's wife'. There was a period where he was considering the possibility of a relationship with Wanda--but that would be several years after her marriage to Vision had ended, and both Wanda and Vision had already moved on to other relationships.

But a question popped in my head the other day: After Civil War, after the return of the Witch; Will we see the Steve/Wanda romance start up again?

I highly doubt it. For one thing, Wanda would need a lot of mental help before she would be in a mental state where a relationship with her would even be possible. Secondly, Cap is already involved with someone right now, and I really don't see Brubaker going down that road.

Because it was never really certain that Wanda actually -was- attracted to him, as opposed to just messing with his head.

Yes, Wanda was actually attracted to him--that was established way back when Wanda first joined the Avengers. That is where Priest got the idea for the storyline in the first place--the fact that Wanda had this crush on Cap from way back.
Unfortunately, that crush hadn't been referenced at all in decades because Wanda had since moved on to other relationships, which made the sudden reappearance of the attraction feel a bit awkward. Don't get me wrong; I thought Priest did a wonderful job with the relationship--but it did feel a bit like he was taking Wanda backward about 30 years to justify it.

Does anyone else think that the current Vission would be upset if his "wife" got off with someone else?

Nope, considering that the current Vision is a separate entity. He doesn't consider himself to be Wanda's ex-husband, so I don't see how it would bother him at all. Besides, the original Vision had already started moving on anyway, between Wanda's relationship with Wonder Man, and his own short-lived romance with Mantis.

As for the Cap/Wanda relationship, I thought it was building up nicely in Cap/Falcon. I don't know if it was intended to tie into the events of Disassembled right from the outset or not, but I was annoyed when it did. It seemed like a natural progression on Wanda's part.

No, it wasn't originally intended to--Priest originally intended the Cap/Wanda relationship to play out in year 2 of the series, and spend year 1 setting it up. But he had to accelerate his plans once he was informed about the plans for Disassembled.
As for being a natural progression for Wanda, I disagree. The last few years of Wanda's development before this (in both Busiek and Geoff Johns' AVENGERS runs) had been setting the groundwork for Wanda and Vision to get back together. Wanda's crush on Cap was actually going backwards, to when she first joined the Avengers. Presumably her attraction to Cap had always remained there on some level...but it was a bit awkward how it suddenly reappeared out of nowhere, when she had spent the last few months getting closer to Vision again.
I would have liked to have seen how Priest would have played the relationship out if he hadn't been forced to rush it along for Disassembled.

jmc247

10-22-2006, 11:08 PM

In light of House of M and Avengers Dissembled I still have big problems seeing Wanda in any relationship any time soon not to mention on the team.

They needs a few years to rebuild her character to the point where it would be plausable.

Then again the X-Men had Lorna on the team even when she was bat**** crazy and trying to kill people. But, we saw how well relationships worked for her at that time.

Babylon23

10-22-2006, 11:48 PM

No, it wasn't originally intended to--Priest originally intended the Cap/Wanda relationship to play out in year 2 of the series, and spend year 1 setting it up. But he had to accelerate his plans once he was informed about the plans for Disassembled.

Thanks for the info. I thought this might be the case, given how quickly the relationship turned.

As for being a natural progression for Wanda, I disagree. The last few years of Wanda's development before this (in both Busiek and Geoff Johns' AVENGERS runs) had been setting the groundwork for Wanda and Vision to get back together.

Moreso in Johns than in Busiek. However, Austen pretty much forget this entire subplot during his run.

I would have liked to have seen how Priest would have played the relationship out if he hadn't been forced to rush it along for Disassembled.

Same here. Priest had started laying the groundwork for the relationship, and it seemed to be developing nicely. He seemed to have a good grasp of Wanda's character. This is what I meant by a natural progression. The Vision subplot was gone, and Wanda found herself attracted to a man she'd known and admired for years, a man she'd also had a crush on when she was younger. Given time, the relationship could have developed nicely and naturally.

A big plus for me would have been not seeing the destruction of Wanda's character in Disassembled.

Laminator_X

10-23-2006, 11:00 AM

As an aside, for all the talk of the YA Vision(-Lad), remember that Vision 1.0 is still crated up in Stark's basement where Iron-Lad (Kid-Kang) found his "remains" and uploaded his memories into his armor.

I don't see Vision Jr. getting with Wanda as he is, but Vision Sr. remains in the wings, requiring only a break-in from the Thinker or the Fixer, or whomever to get him up and running.

Red State Cap

10-24-2006, 10:05 AM

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except this:

There was a period where he (Cap) was considering the possibility of a relationship with Wanda--but that would be several years after her marriage to Vision had ended, and both Wanda and Vision had already moved on to other relationships.
I honestly can't recall an instance where Cap ever considered the possibility of a relationship with Wanda. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, I'd like you to cite sources for this. As far as I remember he never even gave it a passing thought.

I highly doubt it. For one thing, Wanda would need a lot of mental help before she would be in a mental state where a relationship with her would even be possible.
The people who find the Cap/Wanda story intriguing tend to forget that the whole thing involved a)Wanda being insane, and b)Cap being (essentially) mind-controlled or manipulated into something he would not have considered otherwise. That's not a particularly good foundation.
Captain America has never had a relationship with a fellow Avenger, and as far as I can recall has never even considered it. Given the amount of time he's spent as an important member and the number of opportunities that have come his direction (Sersi, Ms. Marvel, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, etc.) that's saying something.
His character is defined by professionalism, and IMO it would be a mistake to undermine that by writing a serious relationship with a serving Avenger.

Yes, Wanda was actually attracted to him--that was established way back when Wanda first joined the Avengers. That is where Priest got the idea for the storyline in the first place--the fact that Wanda had this crush on Cap from way back.
Unfortunately, that crush hadn't been referenced at all in decades because Wanda had since moved on to other relationships, which made the sudden reappearance of the attraction feel a bit awkward. Don't get me wrong; I thought Priest did a wonderful job with the relationship--but it did feel a bit like he was taking Wanda backward about 30 years to justify it.
...Priest originally intended the Cap/Wanda relationship to play out in year 2 of the series, and spend year 1 setting it up. But he had to accelerate his plans once he was informed about the plans for Disassembled...
As for being a natural progression for Wanda, I disagree. The last few years of Wanda's development before this (in both Busiek and Geoff Johns' AVENGERS runs) had been setting the groundwork for Wanda and Vision to get back together. Wanda's crush on Cap was actually going backwards, to when she first joined the Avengers. Presumably her attraction to Cap had always remained there on some level...but it was a bit awkward how it suddenly reappeared out of nowhere, when she had spent the last few months getting closer to Vision again.
I would have liked to have seen how Priest would have played the relationship out if he hadn't been forced to rush it along for Disassembled.
I didn't much like Priest's CA&F book otherwise, but I give him credit for handling the AD/Wanda situation very competently given the cards he was dealt.
The problem you mention is the same one that made AD totally unbelievable -- that is, the whole thing came out of nowhere.
Suddenly Wanda is wacko, and for spurious reasons I might add.
Suddenly Wanda is acting out a crush that hasn't even been mentioned in 40 years.
Even if the thing had gone according to Priest's original plan and been played out over the course of a couple of years, I still would have a hard time with it. Priest would had to have done the best writing job in Marvel history to make me believe that Wanda could have harbored a silent crush on Cap though all this time and through all her serious relationships.
It smacks too much of writer whim for me.

RSC

jmc247

10-25-2006, 11:11 AM

Priest would had to have done the best writing job in Marvel history to make me believe that Wanda could have harbored a silent crush on Cap though all this time and through all her serious relationships.
It smacks too much of writer whim for me.

Maybe, Priest thinks Wanda is a whore.

Jmacq1

10-25-2006, 11:43 AM

Kirk G

10-25-2006, 04:07 PM

Maybe, Priest thinks Wanda is a whore.
Or maybe he wanted her to be one...:D

Kirk G

10-25-2006, 04:14 PM

Actually, it almost works better the way it actually happened. It's not that Wanda so much harbored a hidden, silent crush on Cap all those years. It's just that she did find him attractive on certain levels, and in her insanity, probably turned a passing whim into a semblance of reality for a while, just to see what it would be like.

Apparently, though, she either didn't find it very pleasing or her overwhelming resentment towards the Avengers was too powerful, because she didn't maintain that particular slice of "reality" very long.
I tend to agree with this idea.

I don't recall a clear instance of Cap expressing or thinking of an attraction to Wanda when she first joined his "kookie quarttet", but I do recall her musing over him, even as Clint mused over her... it was the start of a Stan Lee romantic square that was never fully developed...

As I reviewed all the comments in this thread, I especially liked the first four or so, and felt that after Brubaker moves on (PERISH THE THOUGHT!) or when the current storylines are all played out, those were really, REALLY good ideas... and I'd love to see some of that played out.

I don't care so much for Cap to be smitten with her...but going to the mat to redeem his old, valued teammate that he taught, nursemated, and fought along side. Now, even the conflict with Mags as the father figure, and Maximof as HER father image could produce some more conflict between the two (Wanda and Steve) as well! He wants to ask Daddy for permission, or to assure him that his intentions are honorable, and she resents that he has gone to Magneto instead of talking with her or asking WHO she treats as father.

Is Marvel listening?

jmc247

10-25-2006, 06:35 PM

Is Marvel listening?

Not really, Bendis is planning for Wanda to come back as a demonic serial killer who prays on children and boils them in culdrens.

Dermie

10-25-2006, 07:53 PM

Maybe, Priest thinks Wanda is a whore.

Not at all--actually, in one of his issues there was a scene with Sam and Cap talking about how Wanda comes from a very old fashioned background and that she would take sex very seriously.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, except this:
I honestly can't recall an instance where Cap ever considered the possibility of a relationship with Wanda. Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, I'd like you to cite sources for this. As far as I remember he never even gave it a passing thought.

I was referring to the time in CAF where he was finding himself attracted to Wanda. That was being caused by Wanda's manipulations, but he *was* considering the possibility of something between them at the time.

jmc247

10-25-2006, 08:31 PM

Not at all--actually, in one of his issues there was a scene with Sam and Cap talking about how Wanda comes from a very old fashioned background and that she would take sex very seriously.

What issue was that?

Jmacq1

10-26-2006, 04:35 AM

The same issue that pretty much the entirety of the "relationship" occurs in.

Basically Falcon asks Cap "did you?" Cap says "Good god no!" Falcon says, "Oh, well I would've...twice!" (seriously!)

But then they get into a brief discussion about Wanda's "old world values" and the fact that she even spent the night (even if nothing but some making out occurred) could practically mean they're engaged or something.

You know, not like Wanda's spent a decade-plus in the "modern world" and might have adjusted her world view accordingly. ;)

But generally 616 Wanda's usually been portrayed as (at the very least) not particularly promiscuous (particularly early on), slow to develop romantic relationships (particularly after her marriage to Vision crumbled), and by all evidence at least big on monogamy. ;)

The irony of all this being that those values actually probably would mesh pretty well with Cap....

Gnarl

10-26-2006, 09:39 AM

You know, not like Wanda's spent a decade-plus in the "modern world" and might have adjusted her world view accordingly. ;)

But generally 616 Wanda's usually been portrayed as (at the very least) not particularly promiscuous (particularly early on), slow to develop romantic relationships (particularly after her marriage to Vision crumbled), and by all evidence at least big on monogamy. ;)

The irony of all this being that those values actually probably would mesh pretty well with Cap....
Replace "Vision" with "Magda", and "Wanda" with "Magnus." and...

Interestingly, that could be a word for word description of her father as well. Nor has he felt much need to adapt his values to the modern world.

Red State Cap

10-26-2006, 09:51 AM

I was referring to the time in CAF where he was finding himself attracted to Wanda. That was being caused by Wanda's manipulations, but he *was* considering the possibility of something between them at the time.
Yeah, but as a product of what was essentially mind-control, it's meaningless once he is free of that influence. If anything, he would probably be quite angry that he was manipulated by her in such a way.
The only relevant question is: "Did he express any interest prior to being manipulated in AD?" The answer to that is no.

RSC

darkwolf

10-28-2006, 03:39 AM

Ugh. Steve and Wanda ? I feel sorry for her.
I wonder what Magneto will think of this ? If i were him i would make Cap swallow his shield, or put him in orbit.

jmc247

10-28-2006, 01:28 PM

Ugh. Steve and Wanda ? I feel sorry for her.
I wonder what Magneto will think of this ? If i were him i would make Cap swallow his shield, or put him in orbit.

Mags would probably be happy that is daughter isn't screwing a toaster anymore.

My view the problem would be everyone else when they find out Cap is sleeping with the unstable terrorist daughter of the greatest mutant terrorist on Earth.

darkwolf

11-03-2006, 03:45 AM

Mags would probably be happy that is daughter isn't screwing a toaster anymore.

My view the problem would be everyone else when they find out Cap is sleeping with the unstable terrorist daughter of the greatest mutant terrorist on Earth.

Mags aproving his daughter relationship with a human ? Are you kidding ?

Jmacq1

11-03-2006, 04:58 AM

Mags aproving his daughter relationship with a human ? Are you kidding ?

Yeah, cause Magneto's never had romantic involvement with normal humans before....

Oh wait, pretty much all his romantic involvements that aren't Rogue (if you count her) were baseline human women (Magda, Lee Forrester, Polaris' unnamed mother).

I doubt Mags would have a problem with it. Particularly as opposed to an android. Heck, he probably has a shred of respect for Captain America due to that whole "Nazi-Fighter" thing.

But despite all that, it's not like Wanda's been running to Magneto for approval every time she had a romantic involvement anyway. Nor has Magneto shown up to interfere in her life every time she's made a decision/gotten in trouble (as opposed to just a couple of times).

In other words, Magneto's not likely to be much of an issue as far as "approval" goes. If Wanda's in her right mind and wants to do it, she'll flatly tell him so if he tries poking his nose into things, and that'll just about be that.

Erik Lehnsherr

11-03-2006, 05:59 AM

No, it wouldn't. Wanda considers Django Maximoff her father not Magneto.

That's not the way it sounded in House of M #7 when he was the top reason for her life gone awry, according to her.

Babylon23

11-03-2006, 07:16 AM

That's not the way it sounded in House of M #7 when he was the top reason for her life gone awry, according to her.

True, but like much of HoM and AD, this pretty much flies in the face of Wanda's published history.

jmc247

11-03-2006, 10:05 AM

Mags aproving his daughter relationship with a human? Are you kidding ?

Mags in the 616 verse is not the speciesist piece of racist trash that Ultimate Mags is.

In fact I could make a list of human women Mags has hit it off with.

Magda, the Wasp, Lorna's mother, there was another human women in the mid 1980s I remember.

jmc247

11-03-2006, 10:08 AM

True, but like much of HoM and AD, this pretty much flies in the face of Wanda's published history.

If you simply go by published history Wanda should be in almost her 60s.

In the 1980s the writers had her accept him as her father, in the 1990s they didn't, and in the 2000s they did again.

Kirk G

11-03-2006, 01:20 PM

It seems like as many personality shift as Magnus has going through (not to mention being regressed, cloned, born again, etc) that Wanda and Pietro just might have a hard time relating to him. After all, he ordered them around, wounded her in Avengers #47 to be a pawn, played them for fools, didn't admit his paternity, tried to clone/create/raise OTHER mutants/mutates in the hidden land and at Xaviers school, and more besides....

Therefore, when he comes knocking at the door, you never know just WHO you're going to meet if you open the door. The repentant father? The despot? The scientific genius? The world dominating leader? The leader of his species? A robotic double? (Forgot about that one!)

Is it any wonder that they try to keep their distance... or that they are strained when together?

jmc247

11-03-2006, 01:25 PM

Therefore, when he comes knocking at the door, you never know just WHO you're going to meet if you open the door. The repentant father? The despot? The scientific genius? The world dominating leader? The leader of his species? A robotic double? (Forgot about that one!)

Its more then that.

You don't know when you are dealing with a clone of Magneto, a character posing as Magneto, a mentally unbalanced Magneto because of his powers, a robot of Magneto, and the list goes on.

Marvel needs to get its writers on the same page when it comes to Magneto and stop messing up his character and then retconning it months later.

darkwolf

11-06-2006, 03:29 AM

Its more then that.

You don't know when you are dealing with a clone of Magneto, a character posing as Magneto, a mentally unbalanced Magneto because of his powers, a robot of Magneto, and the list goes on.

Marvel needs to get its writers on the same page when it comes to Magneto and stop messing up his character and then retconning it months later.

I agree. But Magneto the mutant ( sometimes ) version of Hitler will never accept that. The more friendly Mags perhaps, Joseph yes.
We still have a problem: Cap is a boy scout. The first thing Wanda does that he dislikes and it's all over.

Jmacq1

11-06-2006, 05:05 AM

I agree. But Magneto the mutant ( sometimes ) version of Hitler will never accept that. The more friendly Mags perhaps, Joseph yes.
We still have a problem: Cap is a boy scout. The first thing Wanda does that he dislikes and it's all over.

I mean no offense, but how long have you been reading comics? Particularly Non-Ultimate comics that contain Magneto and/or Captain America?

It really just seems like your statements are based on the stereotypes of the characters that people that generally don't know much about them assume, rather than how the characters are actually portrayed.

Outside of Morrison's arc, and the Ultimate-verse, Magneto hasn't really been "Mutant Hitler" in decades. Heck, you could probably argue the 616 version's never been "Mutant Hitler." I know for certain the character would take extreme offense at being called that. ;)

Likewise, Captain America has a strong (somewhat old-fashioned) sense of morals and ethics, but he's not a saint, nor does he expect everyone around him to subscribe solely to his standards. If he were as intolerant as your statement makes him out to be, he never would've accepted leadership of an Avengers team made entirely of former criminals, and Hawkeye would've been off the team the first time they had a disagreement.

Seriously, a little research/reading goes a long way.

Erik Lehnsherr

11-06-2006, 04:28 PM

Last I saw Magneto and Captain America communicate, it was done in grudging respect. Magneto has had Cap dead to rights before and allowed him to live. Why would his reaction be so extreme to a hookup with Wanda?

jmc247

11-06-2006, 04:36 PM

Haunt

11-06-2006, 04:40 PM

When was that?

probably after he detected no anti-mutant bigotry in Rogers; back when he was using a helmet that could "detect" such bigotry.

It seems like as many personality shift as Magnus has going through (not to mention being regressed, cloned, born again, etc) that Wanda and Pietro just might have a hard time relating to him.

why? they've gone through just as many personality shifts. Dark Wanda anyone? Pietro leading the Zodiac?

jmc247

11-06-2006, 04:41 PM

probably after he detected no anti-mutant bigotry in Rogers; back when he was using a helmet that could "detect" such bigotry.

I thought the last time they interacted was when Magneto showed up in Avengers 503 and Cap gave him Wanda.

Haunt

11-06-2006, 04:57 PM

I thought the last time they interacted was when Magneto showed up in Avengers 503 and Cap gave him Wanda.

if you go by the issue of WhatIf, that wasn't the real Magneto.

XPac

11-06-2006, 05:42 PM

if you go by the issue of WhatIf, that wasn't the real Magneto.

What If's arent' cannon, so there's really no reason why anyone would go by that though.

Kirk G

11-06-2006, 07:28 PM

Mags would probably be happy that is daughter isn't screwing a toaster anymore.

My view the problem would be everyone else when they find out Cap is sleeping with the unstable terrorist daughter of the greatest mutant terrorist on Earth.

Tactful.
Tactful to the last.

(I laugh every time I read that first line above....):D

Haunt

11-06-2006, 08:23 PM

What If's arent' cannon, so there's really no reason why anyone would go by that though.

we have nothing to go by. that particular event was left a mystery.

XPac

11-06-2006, 08:32 PM

we have nothing to go by. that particular event was left a mystery.

I think the words "What If" on the cover of the book leave us plenty to go by, as least as far as the mystery considering the facts in the story as cannon or not.

Gnarl

11-07-2006, 04:50 AM

But despite all that, it's not like Wanda's been running to Magneto for approval every time she had a romantic involvement anyway. Nor has Magneto shown up to interfere in her life every time she's made a decision/gotten in trouble (as opposed to just a couple of times).

In other words, Magneto's not likely to be much of an issue as far as "approval" goes. If Wanda's in her right mind and wants to do it, she'll flatly tell him so if he tries poking his nose into things, and that'll just about be that.

I think my point is being missed a bit by a few people.

The point is, codes of behavior. Steve and Erik both grew up in a time when there was a very strict code of behavior about these things. And that code was deeply entwined with personal honor.

Wanda did not grow up with this code of behavior. Although I am not sure how different a rumanian gypsy code would be, I have heard that they can be quite strict about these things.

Wandas viewpoint on the issue of seeking the parents approval before wooing, is not all that relevant by this code. It is an issue between Erik and Steve, or father and prospective son-in-law. The code applies between them, but not between either of tham and Wanda, who operates on a differnt code.

Of course, Steve has been trying to adapt to the modern world for so long that he may well completely forget that Erik is also subject to the old code.

(And I just enjoy the thought of an Avengers mission involving Magneto changing completly when Magneto thunders "You have been defiling my daughter!?" And kicking the crap out of a Captein America that can't hit back.
With Spider-Woman in the background "We have to help him" And Cage going "Mags seems to be doing ok without help....What? I got a daughter too.")

jmc247

11-07-2006, 05:19 AM

Of course, Steve has been trying to adapt to the modern world for so long that he may well completely forget that Erik is also subject to the old code.

(And I just enjoy the thought of an Avengers mission involving Magneto changing completly when Magneto thunders "You have been defiling my daughter!?" And kicking the crap out of a Captein America that can't hit back.
With Spider-Woman in the background "We have to help him" And Cage going "Mags seems to be doing ok without help....What? I got a daughter too.")

The thing is that Magneto has never tried to inject himself into Pietro or Wanda's love life.

That could be because the writers only for a very brief time in the 80s and very reciently treated them as somewhat a family.

I would like to see a new Wanda more like Scarlet Witch Evolution for awhile, angry, dealing with alot of pain, and take no sh*t. I would like to see Wanda/Magneto/Polaris/Quicksilver treated more like a family by the writers intead of totally seperate characters that every couple years get together briefly for some crossover.

Erik Lehnsherr

11-07-2006, 07:44 AM

The thing is that Magneto has never tried to inject himself into Pietro or Wanda's love life.

That could be because the writers only for a very brief time in the 80s and very reciently treated them as somewhat a family.

I would like to see a new Wanda more like Scarlet Witch Evolution for awhile, angry, dealing with alot of pain, and take no sh*t. I would like to see Wanda/Magneto/Polaris/Quicksilver treated more like a family by the writers intead of totally seperate characters that every couple years get together briefly for some crossover.

^^This is why House of M should became a permanent series so these issues could of been dealt with. You could throw Luna in that mix as well. She has a great fondness for her grandfather as well.

Erik Lehnsherr

11-07-2006, 07:45 AM

I thought the last time they interacted was when Magneto showed up in Avengers 503 and Cap gave him Wanda.

Oh yeah...there was that. I was thinking of how Magneto and Cap interacted in X-Men/Avengers.

TimGunn

11-07-2006, 10:20 AM

Captain America has a nice butt. I say go for it Wanda

Haunt

11-07-2006, 02:23 PM

Captain America has a nice butt. I say go for it Wanda

nice butts are a dime a dozen in the marvel universe.

jmc247

11-14-2006, 12:11 PM

Oh yeah...there was that. I was thinking of how Magneto and Cap interacted in X-Men/Avengers.

Magneto and Cap have always had a funny relationship.

Babylon23

11-14-2006, 07:43 PM

unstable terrorist daughter

Wanda isn't a terrorist.

In the 1980s the writers had her accept him as her father, in the 1990s they didn't, and in the 2000s they did again.

In the 80's, Wanda accepted that Magneto was her father, and made some effort to interact with him during his "seeking redemption" period as headmaster of the X-Men. Their relationship was never that strong, and certainly not strong enough for Wanda to alter reality just to please him.

Kirk G

11-14-2006, 08:26 PM

Magneto and Cap have always had a funny relationship.
Please explain.

...For a hero who is wearing chain mall (or chain mail) and throws a metal sheild, I'm not sure just how effective he could be against Magneto...:rolleyes:

Red State Cap

11-14-2006, 09:03 PM

...For a hero who is wearing chain mall (or chain mail) and throws a metal sheild, I'm not sure just how effective he could be against Magneto...:rolleyes:
Chain mail does not have to be made out of a magnetic metal. For example, plain stainless steel (which is steel alloyed with chromium) is virtually non-magnetic. Chain mail doesn't even have to be metal; it could be some high-tech ceramic.
I recall at least one issue (New Mutants #?) where Cap's shield is shown to not be magnetic and is unaffected by Magneto's powers. Whether that has remained in continuity or not since then, I don't know.

RSC

jmc247

11-15-2006, 03:06 AM

Wanda isn't a terrorist.

It depends on your definition is of terrorist. Nick Fury calls her a former terrorist, she helped Magneto attack government installations and helped him take over a country by force.

Marvel offically calls her a former terrorist on their website.

jmc247

11-15-2006, 03:09 AM

Please explain.

Read Secret Wars to get a better handle on that relationship. He doesn't consider Magneto to be a good guy, but he doesn't consider him simply a villian either. He wouldn't let a guy he considered simply a villian fly away with a mentally unstable Avenger as well.

darkwolf

11-15-2006, 06:58 AM

I mean no offense, but how long have you been reading comics? Particularly Non-Ultimate comics that contain Magneto and/or Captain America?

It really just seems like your statements are based on the stereotypes of the characters that people that generally don't know much about them assume, rather than how the characters are actually portrayed.

Outside of Morrison's arc, and the Ultimate-verse, Magneto hasn't really been "Mutant Hitler" in decades. Heck, you could probably argue the 616 version's never been "Mutant Hitler." I know for certain the character would take extreme offense at being called that. ;)

Likewise, Captain America has a strong (somewhat old-fashioned) sense of morals and ethics, but he's not a saint, nor does he expect everyone around him to subscribe solely to his standards. If he were as intolerant as your statement makes him out to be, he never would've accepted leadership of an Avengers team made entirely of former criminals, and Hawkeye would've been off the team the first time they had a disagreement.

Seriously, a little research/reading goes a long way.

I've been a Marvel reader since 1991. And he's not intolerant with other's ideas!? Remember when Reed was an avenger ? Cap never liked Reed's ideas ( Supernova story). The Kree vs Shi'ar war, he was intolerant with those avenger's that wanted to kill the supreme kree guy. As for teaming with ex- criminals that's funny he's always been against the T-bolts.
Cap America is the most baddly written character ever, because each writter creates a new aspect of his personality and then the next guy forget's it. One day Cap is a great guy, next day he act's like a saint. That reminds me that years ago he said that Logan would never be an Avenger because he was a killer and now he accepts him on the team.

jmc247

11-15-2006, 07:06 AM

Cap America is the most baddly written character ever, because each writter creates a new aspect of his personality and then the next guy forget's it. One day Cap is a great guy, next day he act's like a saint. That reminds me that years ago he said that Logan would never be an Avenger because he was a killer and now he accepts him on the team.

That is nothing.

Magneto is so badly written the writers have to totally retcon a large number of his previous appearences as a robot, as Xorn, as a clone. They also have to find other ways of explaining his behavior like his powers drive him insane after they have him act like a raving madman.

You have one writer have him act like a hero, then you have the next have him be a drug addicted genocidal mass murderer.

darkwolf

11-16-2006, 02:00 AM

That is nothing.

Magneto is so badly written the writers have to totally retcon a large number of his previous appearences as a robot, as Xorn, as a clone. They also have to find other ways of explaining his behavior like his powers drive him insane after they have him act like a raving madman.

You have one writer have him act like a hero, then you have the next have him be a drug addicted genocidal mass murderer.

You're right. Marvel writers are killing great characters. They should follow previous writers work and not re-invent heroes storylines, powers or personalities.

jmc247

11-16-2006, 04:06 AM

You're right. Marvel writers are killing great characters. They should follow previous writers work and not re-invent heroes storylines, powers or personalities.

The editors need to put their foot down when a writer comes along and decides he is going to radically re-invent a popular character like Morrison did with Magneto. Then you don't have Marvel scratching their head saying we have to undo this to keep the character viable and then retconning the story away as if it never happened, and with Magneto that has happened over and over again.

I have no problem with a slow change like Claremont did with Magneto over the course of a decade. Hell, I wouldn't even mind storylines where characters like the Scarlet Witch go dark over time. But, I don't like a writer simply deciding hey lets make Wanda an insane killer today.