Flash #5 aka Why am I doing this to myself? [Archive]

Dr.Geekibus

10-18-2006, 05:55 PM

SPOILERS AHOY!

Don't ask me why, but I picked up the new issue of Flash today and all I can say is "Why?" Did I do too many drugs in the 60's and have lost all impulse control?

For four issues we've had to listen to Bart whine about how being the flash is too dangerous givent he volatility of the speed force and now in the space of four or five panels he's convinced he can get over it and become the master of the speed force? And how the heck does Barry Allen's suit contain the power of the speed force? I mean, c'mon!

And give me a break...Griff throws Bart out of window...Bart saves himself...then instead of going back for the super-throwdown that you know is going to happen, he goes out to dinner with Jay and Joan Garrick? I'm sorry, is there blood leaking out of my ears yet?

Griffin has long outlived his usefulness. As Dieter on SNL would say, "This has become tiresome".

That's it folks...I'm outie. To paraphrase the soup nazi "No Flash for me! Come back one year!"

Mr. Palmer

10-18-2006, 08:39 PM

I dropped this book after #2 and have not looked back. No regrets.

Sean Whitmore

10-18-2006, 08:47 PM

Same here with #2.

It feels weird not to be buying Flash for the first time in 13 years. I just believe I'll have more fun doing nothing for however many minutes it would take me to read an issue now.

SEAN

Eliseu Gouveia

10-18-2006, 09:21 PM

At least you have your comic to trash.

I haven´t seen my Wonder Woman comic since............... what month is this?

DoctorDoom

10-18-2006, 11:16 PM

That bad huh....

I just buy it for Val...honest

nuclearman

10-18-2006, 11:19 PM

I dropped it after #1... just didn't get into it. A few are still getting it though according to this weeks shipping thread.

Bored at 3:00AM

10-18-2006, 11:52 PM

sly_kat

10-19-2006, 01:00 AM

wow you know the amazing thing is my friend continues to pick this up and continues, like a motivational speaker, oh it will get better i promise!... she even goes to tell me that in the dc nation part of last week says didio replying to the writer, 'i luv the way your flash is going' or sumthing to that extent...
I luckily had enough will power to pick this up and check it out at the comic shop 10 minutes after i just woken up, and ya kno even with all the fuzzy pages and crap spewed out, i have to say, it didnt read any better... after reading this i feel autistic...
here's to hoping armegedon takes the title and returns with Neuron's pet monkey while he battles the flee, and then proceeds to eat flees off another monkey, this is the cliffhanger we've all been waiting for:p

the4thpip

10-19-2006, 01:56 AM

I dropped after issue #2, but checked back in for the guest art in #3 (big improvment). The writing is abysmal. Anybody know how the sales are? I honestly can't believe that this book is a hit with readers. I've only heard from a handful of people who are enjoying this comic.
For the life of me I can't tell you why, but it is a hit with readers it seems.

Issue 4 charted at #25 and moved an estimated 66,663 copies in the direct market. :eek:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/9470.html

dancj

10-19-2006, 06:23 AM

I'm still buying, but I haven't got round to reading it. I can't stop though. It's the only comic that I still buy monthly.

Jack

10-19-2006, 07:27 AM

I'm one of the people who's been enjoying this book a lot, but whereas every other issue has been better than the ones before it, I think this was weaker than #4.

Anyway, two things - firstly, I think the "power" of Barry's suit is entirely psychological, with it making Bart feel more like a hero and so better able to control his powers; and secondly, Bart did intend to confront Griffin, but he ran too fast and ended up shooting above the clouds, then he fell into the zoo and hit his head. After that, he went straight back but Griffin was gone.

Count Vertigo

10-19-2006, 08:21 AM

I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm digging the story so far.

Captain Smith

10-19-2006, 09:11 AM

Personally, I thought the Flash universe went down the drain when the whole speed force thing started up and there was the proliferation of speedsters.

It started to drive the whole series. Killing off a Flash every crisis or so - is rather boring.

Loren

10-19-2006, 09:30 AM

For the life of me I can't tell you why, but it is a hit with readers it seems.

Issue 4 charted at #25 and moved an estimated 66,663 copies in the direct market. :eek:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/9470.html

And The Pulse (http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2006/09/27/dc-month-to-month-sales-august-2006/) offers up the month-to-month analysis. Sales continue to drop, but it's still doing considerably better than the last series.

RedShark92

10-19-2006, 09:34 AM

I’d been reading the Wally series for a while, starting during Messner-Loebs’ run and getting completely hooked during Mark Waid’s run.

Waid’s was the best by far, though Messner-Loeb’s was good. As much as I like Waid’s writing, it seemed like he’d run out of ideas for the character near the end of his run, so I was glad for a change of pace. I kinda wish I’d just quit then, because the series never got quite back on it’s feet after that (I know some will disagree with me on this).

I did decide to drop the series for good after that run of the issue ended and all the buzz I’ve heard indicated that that was a good direction.

Dropped Green Lantern also – I know many people like Geoff John’s writing, but even though I really liked Rebirth (despite my having a heavy pro-Kyle bias) I didn’t find much to like in the early issues of the relaunched title.

Flash and GL went from being among my favorite books to pick up every month to hot potatoes. Oh well…

Josh S

10-19-2006, 09:48 AM

I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm digging the story so far.

I'm enjoying it, as well. It's not great, but I don't think it's as terrible as alot of people here seem to think.

MutoMikey

10-19-2006, 05:16 PM

Cthulhudrew

10-19-2006, 05:32 PM

Don't ask me why, but I picked up the new issue of Flash today and all I can say is "Why?" Did I do too many drugs in the 60's and have lost all impulse control?

Hah! You picked up an issue of the Flash, featuring Bart Allen, due to poor "impulse" control? ;)

JamesJesse

10-19-2006, 05:42 PM

Infinite Crisis took out two characters I loved in the DCU.

Kid Flash (for whom I followed the Teen Titans) and Flash (who has always been my favorite character.

I tried reading both Titans and The Flash AFTER I.C. expecting to like them. I was pretty much expecting the change and was open to it.

Since then, I've found Flash to be tiresome. Not because it's Bart. But because I just didn't enjoy reading it. I MIGHTl give it a chance again someday. Just not now.

Guts/Batman

10-20-2006, 01:28 AM

I dropped after #2, and have not looked back.

I mildly considered getthing this issue because of the improved art, but put it back. Flash did not surive my pull list purge.

Sean Whitmore

10-20-2006, 01:39 AM

Not for nothing, but the art ain't all that great, so I don't even get that reason for buying it.

SEAN

Guts/Batman

10-20-2006, 01:41 AM

It's not great, I'll say that. But it was certainly better than in any of the previous issues, especially #3 (or the one with the excessively cartoonish art). Just flipping through it convinced me it wasn't worth buying.

justcrash

10-20-2006, 07:43 AM

I stopped after issue one and have not looked back. I've followd Wally since his relaunch in 86, have almost every issue. This latest is a joke. I would have been happier to have Barry back as opposed to Bart. I liked him as Impulse, he was ok as Kid-Flash, but as the Flash, YUCK.

Count Vertigo

10-20-2006, 07:50 AM

Well I'm glad Bart's maturing and the writing reflects that I feel. What do you expect from someone who lost his childhood in an apparent blink of an eye and he lost almost everybody to the Speed Force. I dont think anyone here is going to have an easy time trying to be chipper etc.

I just reread a friend's copy of "Terminal Velocity" and I hated Bart in it. His goddamned attitude pissed me off. I just wanted to smack him HARD enough to make him bleed.

marshal99

10-20-2006, 10:48 AM

DC just do not know how to relaunch their titles from scratch. Look at Marvel , when they did Heroes return after 1 years absence from the mainstream marvel , they did it with a bang. Most , if not all the relaunch titles were great and revamp and revitalise the characters.

DC , on the other hand , when they relaunch their titles after OYL , have been weak. Wonder woman , Flash , Martian manhunter and all the new series that came out of IC were all decidedly been rather mediocre.

Slade.

10-20-2006, 10:54 AM

I've read some boring, pointless wack ass bullshit before but...this is up there with the worst of 'em.

Jack

10-20-2006, 11:57 AM

Dr.Geekibus

10-20-2006, 12:08 PM

I understand those of you that are digging this book. Yes there was more Flash action in this issue. No doubt about it. But I'm just not enjoying what's coming out. Yes, Bart has had to deal with alot. But he's had a year to deal with it. And this title has been written like no time has past. Is this OYL or not?

I'm interested to see where the Inertia storyline will go, but overall I'm just not impressed with the book at all.

And Cthuludrew...LOL on the Impulse control joke. I didn't even catch it when I wrote it. LOL.

Josh S

10-20-2006, 12:09 PM

But he's had a year to deal with it. And this title has been written like no time has past. Is this OYL or not?

I read it as he's been dealing with it for that year and he's just now getting over it.

Bored at 3:00AM

10-20-2006, 10:34 PM

I still don't see what's so bad about the book. You wanted a better artist, they got one (for now I guess), you wanted less whiny more hero, it's here. Yet you guys still rag on the book. Geez. This is one thing that I don't look forward to about a career in writing comics. But anyways.
Best issue yet in my opinion. The old Bart's starting to shine through alittle. A cameo by Cyborg (one of my favorite titans), Yeah! And, finally, what I've been waiting for since the Impulse series ended, the return of Inertia! Awesome! I like the new artist alot. Hope he stays around.
But Inertia and Cyborg both being in this issue kinda gives me the feeling that Bart's gonna make a little cameo in the 'Titans East' story over in Teen Titans. "Once a Titan, always a Titan".
Can't wait untill the next issue!

Okay, your post intrigued me to the point that I flipped through the latest issue to see what you're talking about.

You're right, they are trying to address some of the problems readers have been complaining about. They even specifically mention that he's starting to stop sulking and acting more and more like the old Bart. Unfortunately, it's too little, too late for me.

All is not lost, however, I remember when Wally first took over as The Flash, things were creatively murky for him at the start too until Waid took over and gave the comic a strong voice.

Buried Alien

10-20-2006, 11:18 PM

Okay, your post intrigued me to the point that I flipped through the latest issue to see what you're talking about.

You're right, they are trying to address some of the problems readers have been complaining about. They even specifically mention that he's starting to stop sulking and acting more and more like the old Bart. Unfortunately, it's too little, too late for me.

All is not lost, however, I remember when Wally first took over as The Flash, things were creatively murky for him at the start too until Waid took over and gave the comic a strong voice.

I think the writers are probably taking Bart down this path initially on purpose. First, because he was *instantly* promoted from Kid Flash to Flash status through time travel (unlike Wally, who truly began growing into his destined role as the Flash even before Barry died), it would be a bit improbable for Bart to be awesome as the Flash right away. He needs to go through his trials like Wally did. Moreover, one common storytelling device is to drag the hero down low so that you can set him up for a stunning resurgence. It kind of follows the general themes of loss and redemption that started in IDENTITY CRISIS and INFINITE CRISIS.

I'm not enjoying the art much in the first five issues of the new FLASH title, however. It's not awful, but it's not particularly engaging either.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

90'sCartoonMan

10-20-2006, 11:28 PM

I just reread a friend's copy of "Terminal Velocity" and I hated Bart in it. His goddamned attitude pissed me off. I just wanted to smack him HARD enough to make him bleed.

Bart underwent a serious make-over when the Impulse series started. I remember reading Terminal Velocity after I was familiar with the character, it was weird.

I wish I could say I'm surprised so many people dropped Flash, but really, the comic is nothing to write home about.

I'm still optimistic that they'll use more of Bart's past, like the Teen Titans stuff and Inertia and all that. I just hope they get rid of Griffin quickly, he's so annoying.

Buried Alien

10-20-2006, 11:40 PM

I just hope they get rid of Griffin quickly, he's so annoying.

Yeah...the worst part of this somewhat shaky start to the new FLASH series is definitely the villain. Quite simply, Griffin is not a very original or compelling villainous character. The lack of originality can sometimes be overlooked if the character is engaging enough, but Griffin isn't.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Josh S

10-20-2006, 11:59 PM

I don't hate Griffin, but I also don't think he needs to be the focal point of the first (at least) six issues of the title.

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-21-2006, 12:54 AM

All is not lost, however, I remember when Wally first took over as The Flash, things were creatively murky for him at the start too until Waid took over and gave the comic a strong voice.

Thats why I'm not dropping the book.

Bart is one of my favorite characters, and I dont hate the book but I'm ready and hoping for a new creative team to take over.

I'm still optimistic that they'll use more of Bart's past, like the Teen Titans stuff and Inertia and all that.

Me too, I'd really like to see Preston and Carol again, I mean they were his best friends, his first friends really, I'd like to see a reaction to them seeing a grown up Bart.

THat reminds me of another thing that irks me about this book is that Val looks alot like Carol, but then again maybe they can use that to explain his sudden attraction to her. They explained her side of it but with Bart...not so much.

Lunal

10-21-2006, 03:58 AM

Dropped it after #2, myself. I think it was because they talked about how the speed force was gone and all, and I was looking forward to seeing "the flash" without a speed force available. And then boom! they basically say "just kidding haha!" and that sucked. Plus Bart is my least favorite of the flashes, and Griffin is just meh as a character.

mandog

10-21-2006, 09:49 AM

I bailed out on this after #1. I'll perhaps try it again if they get a new writer and penciler.

TheTen-EyedMan

10-21-2006, 10:01 AM

Someone beg Mike Baron to come back and save us.

DonC

10-21-2006, 10:45 AM

This was, quite possibly, the second worst comic book I have ever read. (It would have to be really bad to surpass Mike S. Miller's Immortal Two.) It was like they were trying to be bad. Seriously. Look at some of the writing. "Griffin just tried to kill me in cold blood. If I were just Bart Allen, he'd have pulled it off. But I'm the Flash. What a rush...Scary...Can't stop! The Force--launching me like a missle--!"

And that's page 1.

The Flash (Wally) was my favorite character for years. Never in a million years did I think I would be dropping this book, but I think I am.

stealthwise

10-21-2006, 01:17 PM

For the life of me I can't tell you why, but it is a hit with readers it seems.

Issue 4 charted at #25 and moved an estimated 66,663 copies in the direct market. :eek:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/9470.html

Yes, but the title moved 70000 plus copies the previous month (about a 5% drop off) and the first issue moved close to 100,000.

I can see the sales dropping even further in the coming months, especially if stores are piling up a ton of extra copies. That being said, everyone who's not enjoying this title should drop it from their pull lists and stop getting it. Otherwise, you're only subjecting yourselves to extended amounts of misery, and it will take much longer for DC to pull the current creative team. If everyone drops it now, then the sales will start to reflect that lack of interest much sooner and they'll take action faster.

the4thpip

10-21-2006, 02:03 PM

I now have flipped through it as well and have a question:

Why are they making a big deal about "rebuilding Barry's suit" and "this version of Barry's suit" containing the speedfore in Bart?

Other than not getting wrinkled when it got compressed into Barry's ring, his suit had no special properties, it was just cloth. It did not burn up because of Barry's insulating aura.
:confused:

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-21-2006, 04:48 PM

Thats the suit Bart was wearing whern he came back in Infinite Crisis, it was pretty torn up. He said that Barry's suit was the only one that could survive the trip back or something like that which is why he was wearing it.

S.T.A.R. labs fixed it up, so I guess thats what they mean.

Agentum

10-21-2006, 04:59 PM

Hulkamaniac

10-21-2006, 05:03 PM

I don't hate Griffin, but I also don't think he needs to be the focal point of the first (at least) six issues of the title.

my feelings exactly:eek:

the4thpip

10-22-2006, 02:56 AM

David Atkins

10-22-2006, 03:51 AM

Still doesn't make sense, though. Wally's suite at least was made out of speed force. Barry's was cloth.

The suit was changed due to extreme exposure to the speed force, like Bart himself! :p

Honestly, I like this book. A lot. I've been on board since #1 and don't regret an issue. First time I've ever actually bought the Flash's title regularly.

Effect

10-22-2006, 09:36 AM

I don't like this book either.

But as usual when i don't like books it is selling good anyway, i never get why boks like that sells good.
Maybe the reader still waits for anything good to happen, but that will not last long, i hope this flopps, it's so much worse than Flash has been before.

And this Bart character really is no Wally West, so i don't believe readers will accept him as the main Flash as easy as they did when West did it.
A character that is suposed to inherent a role from an poular older heo must be given time to grow before he does that, DC almost always fails that.
And the consept with fast ageing Bart is only boring i think, reads like an 60s comic or something, but we don't get to read one issue with the idea, today they draw out these things too long, you may have to read about it a year before whatever they intended to do happens.

Sometimes i read comic after comic and nothing really happens in them, i'm feeling old.

I'm glad he's not Wally West. That would just be bad if he was a copy of Wally. Just how it would be bad if Wally was a copy of Barry. That's like saying you don't like Nightwing or Robin because they are not Batman. They aren't suppose to be.

As for the acceptance of Wally. Last I heard, and pretty much what I've always heard and I could have been told wrong, there was somewhat of an uproar about Wally replacing Barry as well. He wasn't really loved form the start and people wanted Barry back. I can understand that as well so I don't think anyone should be trying to make it seem like Wally was easily accepted as soon as Barry was taken out of the picture.

I'm sorry but Wally had his time. He was around for what more then 20 years? First as Kid Flash and then as Flash. Having him as a favorite is one thing but seriously doesn't it get old reading about the same character time in and time out? Flash has been a Legacy character for the longest time now from Jay, to Barry, to Wally, and now to Bart. To think a replacement wouldn't happen was silly I feel. Readers should have been prepared for this.

I've been enjoying the new series to be honest. I like Bart now that he's older. I didn't really care to much for him as Kid Flash. Maybe it's because while Flash is a favorite character of time due to the Justice League cartoon, I'm not particular crazy about any one version. I enjoy reading about Jay, Wally, and Bart. Never read about Barry though. I've never had an emotional attachment to any one version but feel they are all interesting in different ways.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next with Val and Bart, if Jay gets away from Griffon (thought I think he's a lame villian it's the Bart, Val, Jay scenes that are really enjoyable), and seeing Bart get his speed under control. This is the first time I'm reading about Inertia as well so it should be interesting to see what he's like since I doubt I'll be reading Teen Titans as I'm not crazy about the characters in that (prefer the Teen Titans Go version of the group and comic).

90'sCartoonMan

10-22-2006, 06:29 PM

As for the acceptance of Wally. Last I heard, and pretty much what I've always heard and I could have been told wrong, there was somewhat of an uproar about Wally replacing Barry as well. He wasn't really loved form the start and people wanted Barry back. I can understand that as well so I don't think anyone should be trying to make it seem like Wally was easily accepted as soon as Barry was taken out of the picture.

I'm sorry but Wally had his time. He was around for what more then 20 years? First as Kid Flash and then as Flash. Having him as a favorite is one thing but seriously doesn't it get old reading about the same character time in and time out? Flash has been a Legacy character for the longest time now from Jay, to Barry, to Wally, and now to Bart. To think a replacement wouldn't happen was silly I feel. Readers should have been prepared for this.

It wasn't Wally leaving that was the problem (although his ending was much more open ended than Barry's), it was Bart being promoted. For Wally it seemed like time for him to go from Kid Flash to Flash. Bart hardly spent any time as Kid Flash (3 measly years our time) and had to be aged so he could be The Flash.

It also doesn't help that his personality changes from Impulse to Kid Flash and then Flash. His voice isn't strong and unique enough. Although there were a few bright spots in this issue.

Gingold

10-22-2006, 09:18 PM

I stuck it out for four issues, and I just couldn't take it any more. Other than the cool art in issue 3, this relaunch has been a disaster.

Effect

10-22-2006, 09:35 PM

Bored at 3:00AM

10-22-2006, 10:51 PM

Honest question here and looking for honest answers. I'm curious for those that think this is a disaster (not saying it's prefect but far from a disaster I feel). Exactly would type of relaunch story would you consider to be good with Bart? Detail and issue wise?

What would have had to been done in order to get a "good" out of you? Also Bart as Flash has to be used.

Or is it really a case where nothing would have worked because you dislike the idea of Bart as Flash so much?

It has absolutely nothing to do with Bart being The Flash for me. In fact, I think this was the perfect time for Bart to get promoted to the Big Show. The problem I have is that the writing has been pedestrian and cliched and the art all over the map in terms of quality.

It's really as simple as that. There's nothing wrong with the premise of this comic, it's just the half-assed execution of it that's such a problem.

Guts/Batman

10-23-2006, 12:45 AM

It's really as simple as that. There's nothing wrong with the premise of this comic, it's just the half-assed execution of it that's such a problem.

I agree completely.

The arc has seen what I have seen 3 different artists. I couldn't even look at the art of #3 without having to look away about 5 seconds after I looked at it.

Gozwald73

10-23-2006, 12:58 AM

I'm on the fence with this title. I've just performed a cull of my pull-list and 3 DC titles didn't survive. Had I been pushed for a fourth this would have been it! Hoping it will pick up soon...
:o

Ian J.N.

10-23-2006, 01:52 AM

Honest question here and looking for honest answers. I'm curious for those that think this is a disaster (not saying it's prefect but far from a disaster I feel). Exactly would type of relaunch story would you consider to be good with Bart? Detail and issue wise?

What would have had to been done in order to get a "good" out of you? Also Bart as Flash has to be used.

Or is it really a case where nothing would have worked because you dislike the idea of Bart as Flash so much?
Simply put, Bart has to bring something new to the table, so as to justify this change in the status quo. Wally West brought in the (nowadays, overdone) theme of legacy, and being the kid sidekick all grown up, he provided a modern lens through which both the character and the Silver Age mythos could be reinterpreted. In other words, he added to the Flash story.

So.. what does Bart bring to the story that hasn't or couldn't have been done with Wally? A "good" relaunch story would have slapped me in the face with an answer.

Agentum

10-23-2006, 02:00 AM

Yes the bad writing is the worst thing.
Good writing can save a change of main character like this.

I know people still want Barry back, but Wally was Kid Flash for so long so at least we younger people at the time accepted him as the new Flash.

It has almost never worked to change the biggest heroes, i think Barry would have been back if people had wanted it enough, the reader practically forced back Hal Jordan.

I don't dislike Bart that much but i don't see anything special in him.

the4thpip

10-23-2006, 02:31 AM

I thought Barry's series had really, really lost steam towards the end. Cary Bates had been writing the title for something like 12 years by then and was really running out of ideas (Colonel Computron? wtf?), and classic Flash artist Carmine Infantino had returned for the last 5 or so years of the title, but with a new, "modern" style that may have been very unique, but never did much for me. I think fans were ready for a change.

jam

10-23-2006, 02:51 AM

I don't really understand how DC treats the Flash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Flash one of the big seven? One of the big five, even? (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL and the Flash)

Shouldn't they be getting some heavy duty talent on this title?

(The last time I bought Flash regularly was when Mark Waid was writing. I didn't like the first few post-Waid issues so I gave up. Probably missed a treat. Oh, well. I bought the first issue of the current run and dropped the title immediately thereafter.)

Ask yourself the question : what team would you have on All-Star Flash? And then, get them on the mainstream title! ;-)

Bored at 3:00AM

10-23-2006, 04:59 AM

I don't really understand how DC treats the Flash.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Flash one of the big seven? One of the big five, even? (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, GL and the Flash)

Shouldn't they be getting some heavy duty talent on this title?

I don't think anyone at DC thinks they're treating The Flash comic poorly here. These writers and whatever artist was supposed to be the regular penciller were clearly viewed as heavy duty talent--but, unfortuately, haven't turned out that way.

Agentum

10-23-2006, 05:37 AM

Steel Spider

10-23-2006, 05:45 AM

I dropped this book after issue 2. I don't have times for terrible books.

the4thpip

10-23-2006, 07:10 AM

What is it with Flash villains and that hooded look anyway?

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/32488651314.230.GIF

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/32488651314.318.GIF

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/32490824177.3.GIF

Joe Acro

10-23-2006, 08:23 AM

For four issues we've had to listen to Bart whine about how being the flash is too dangerous givent he volatility of the speed force and now in the space of four or five panels he's convinced he can get over it and become the master of the speed force? And how the heck does Barry Allen's suit contain the power of the speed force?Bart has the Speed Force, not the suit. Did you read the previous issues? The suit is currently acting like the energy Superman suit, stabilizing the energy when used. And I don't think he became convinced in four of five panels. He's been flirting with the notion for a couple of issues now.

And give me a break...Griff throws Bart out of window...Bart saves himself...then instead of going back for the super-throwdown that you know is going to happen, he goes out to dinner with Jay and Joan Garrick? I'm sorry, is there blood leaking out of my ears yet?You do realize he was stopped by Cyborg, right? Not to say this justifies him not fighting Griffen, but the way you make it sound is that there wasn't anything stopping him. My biggest problem was with how Bart fell. I want to know how super-speed slows decent now.

Griffin has long outlived his usefulness. As Dieter on SNL would say, "This has become tiresome".He's outlived his usefulness? Was he really useful at his introduction? My problem with the character isn't that he's entirely useless, it's that I don't understand what's happened to him. All I get is vague Speed Force-related comments.

Bored at 3:00AM

10-23-2006, 11:35 AM

Then change the team, but maybe that is not so easy today as it was once.

And Flash is i guess like GL just outside the big 3, so yes nr 4 or 5 on the rank.

Sometimes i wish they would look into what the new team want to do with the book, i mean the editor can't think this book is great?

They are not far ahead enough on some titles it seems, and sudenly a book gets delayed months or something.

Do they trust the teams on the books to much?

I'm not exactly sure how easy it is to dump a creative team like this would be. This is their first comics writing gig, yes, but they're also relatively big time TV producers/writers. Dan Dido probably doesn't want to burn any bridges with them by dumping them so quickly after they just go started.

If sales on The Flash start tanking, maybe, but at the moment sales are too strong to justify replacing them.

Paul Newell

10-23-2006, 03:58 PM

The suit was changed due to extreme exposure to the speed force, like Bart himself! :p

Honestly, I like this book. A lot. I've been on board since #1 and don't regret an issue. First time I've ever actually bought the Flash's title regularly.
Plus everyone seems to have forgotten that the suit wasn't just plain cloth, but was chemically treated and altered by Barry himself to not only survive high speeds, but to be able to shrink and fit into a little bitty ring. :)

DonC

10-23-2006, 05:26 PM

I don't think anyone at DC thinks they're treating The Flash comic poorly here. These writers and whatever artist was supposed to be the regular penciller were clearly viewed as heavy duty talent--but, unfortuately, haven't turned out that way.

The funny thing is, Bilson and DeMeo have always been terrible. I was watching an episode of The Flash TV series that came free with some set I bought and my reaction was, "I used to watch this crap?" The series does not hold up well. It's a shame no one at DC realized this before hiring them.

And who is the regular artist? They've had five issues and three artists.

Dr.Geekibus

10-23-2006, 05:27 PM

Bart has the Speed Force, not the suit. Did you read the previous issues? The suit is currently acting like the energy Superman suit, stabilizing the energy when used. And I don't think he became convinced in four of five panels. He's been flirting with the notion for a couple of issues now.

You do realize he was stopped by Cyborg, right? Not to say this justifies him not fighting Griffen, but the way you make it sound is that there wasn't anything stopping him. My biggest problem was with how Bart fell. I want to know how super-speed slows decent now.

He's outlived his usefulness? Was he really useful at his introduction? My problem with the character isn't that he's entirely useless, it's that I don't understand what's happened to him. All I get is vague Speed Force-related comments.

I get the analogy to the Superman suit, but that doesn't make any sense. The Speed Force has been described as a place. A plane of existence where all kinetic energy originates and returns (i'm paraphrasing badly I apologize). And suddenly Bart IS the Speed Force. And somehow Barry Allen's suit (chemically treated or no) is somehow containing the force. It just makes no sense.

I agree with you on the descent issue and I do realize Cyborg stopped him. I even realize that he did apparently return to the apartment for Griffon before going out to dinner but my question is...If you know a superhuman has gone rogue and is capable of committing murder why wouldn't you be using your superspeed to scour the city and find the psycho? If Bart got an e-mail from Bats that the Joker was planning a quick vacation to Keystone City would Bart have a couple of Frappucinos at Starbucks while waiting for the bodies to begin piling up?

Griffon was never a very useful character from the beginning and unless this "Lightning in a bottle" story arc somehow comes to life I don't see him having any real substance to add to the Flash's story.

As for the question posted a few posts back, I really don't think I want Bart to be Flash. Not at this point anyway. I would have liked to see them take the Firestorm approach and have someone brand new be the Flash. Someone struck by a lightning bolt and invested with the speed force. All the dead speedsters living in the speed force could be his/her mentors. That way he/she could be brought up to speed without all the tedious "learning my powers" stories and it would still be someone fresh and interesting.

My two cents
Doc

DonC

10-23-2006, 05:31 PM

I'm not exactly sure how easy it is to dump a creative team like this would be. This is their first comics writing gig, yes, but they're also relatively big time TV producers/writers.

Aside from the fact I don't think they were ever "big time," they haven't had a TV series on the air in like 10 years. They've been writing video games and direct-to-video movies.

Joe Acro

10-23-2006, 06:49 PM

I get the analogy to the Superman suit, but that doesn't make any sense. The Speed Force has been described as a place. A plane of existence where all kinetic energy originates and returns (i'm paraphrasing badly I apologize). And suddenly Bart IS the Speed Force. And somehow Barry Allen's suit (chemically treated or no) is somehow containing the force. It just makes no sense. There's no question that the Speed Force being inside Bart is very confusing. I didn't understand it and I'm not sure I entirely do now. I've sort of worked out something. I'm thinking it's not so much that he is the Speed Force, so much as a portal through which it enters the world. I'm thinking Bart is now Cloak meets Flash. His power is eating at him and he has to contain through a garb. I could be wrong, though. And I think the suit was more than chemically treated. We don't how it was changed because the change happened off-panel. I just assume that since S.T.A.R. Labs has had experience with this kind of thing that making such a suit doesn't really need explanation.

I agree with you on the descent issue and I do realize Cyborg stopped him. I even realize that he did apparently return to the apartment for Griffon before going out to dinner but my question is...If you know a superhuman has gone rogue and is capable of committing murder why wouldn't you be using your superspeed to scour the city and find the psycho? If Bart got an e-mail from Bats that the Joker was planning a quick vacation to Keystone City would Bart have a couple of Frappucinos at Starbucks while waiting for the bodies to begin piling up?Griffin is very public with his crime-stopping. Being the Fastest Man Alive, Bart could theoretically meet him at whatever crime because Griffin will pretty much announce it. I can't say that Bart used this logic and it's doubtful considering the way he's been acting since the start of the story. He probably just didn't want to spend the time searching everywhere, since he had other places to be, and knew that if something happened he'd have Jay there this time. I don't know. Narration boxes would seriously help.

Griffon was never a very useful character from the beginning and unless this "Lightning in a bottle" story arc somehow comes to life I don't see him having any real substance to add to the Flash's story.At first, I thought he was doomed to become the next Pied Piper. At this point, I think he'll just die and serve as largely unimportant character.

MWGallaher

10-23-2006, 07:41 PM

I've made several stabs at defining what I think is wrong with this launch of The Flash (see the thread on #4 for a fairly long list of what struck me as faults). When I tried to frame an answer to an earlier poster's question about what I'd want in a "good" Bart Allen Flash comic, my starting point was this: a defining and satisfying tone. I'm not sure what tone the current crew wants to characterize this comic. The only tonal quality I've picked up on so far is that (as I recall it) virtually all of the action so far has taken place at night. I recall that this was the case in their Flash tv series, too. Was that the hook that earned this comic a greenlight at DC? "We're going to do Flash as a 'nighttime' hero"? Well, I've gotta admit, that's quite a turn from the Barry Allen version; Infantino's Flash was a "high noon" hero if there ever was one.

Effect

10-23-2006, 07:56 PM

Hmm I didn't really notice that. That could be an interesting spin if they go that way. Trying to show Bart as a Flasht that has both a normal life and a superhero life. I'm not sure how Wally was handled. Was he basiclly Flash 24/7?

I think if they decide to go for the daytime is Bart and the nights are Flash that could make for a better dynamic between the superheroing and the drama that surrounds Bart's life. I mean Bart does have to earn his way in life. It isn't like he's Batman where he has tons of money. Even Superman has to work during the day and him slipping away to be Superman doesn't really make him lose his job since he can still deliver great articles. I don't think Bart as Flash will have that type of job. Jay doesn't have to worry about it since his ID is public knowledge and people know why he disappears and expect it from time to time.

I'm hoping they touch on that more. Due to Bart's aging I'm curious what his personal life will be like more then him being Flash to be honest.

Could the double duty tire the Flash out if it goes on to long?

MWGallaher

10-23-2006, 08:20 PM

Even Superman has to work during the day and him slipping away to be Superman doesn't really make him lose his job since he can still deliver great articles. I don't think Bart as Flash will have that type of job.

Bart's got a job, right? He's a scab at an on-strike factory. That's another major departure from Silver Age tradition right there.

Super Buddies Forever

10-23-2006, 08:29 PM

As for the question posted a few posts back, I really don't think I want Bart to be Flash. Not at this point anyway. I would have liked to see them take the Firestorm approach and have someone brand new be the Flash.

I'm still not entirely sold on why we needed a new Flash at this point anyway. Yes, I get there was a Crisis and we "needed" a Barry Allen parallel, but it just feels like they put Wally West on the shelf too soon.

Count Vertigo

10-23-2006, 09:24 PM

I'm still not entirely sold on why we needed a new Flash at this point anyway. Yes, I get there was a Crisis and we "needed" a Barry Allen parallel, but it just feels like they put Wally West on the shelf too soon.

too soon? it was time for a change. west's been around well over 30 years (more or less?) I like all of the flashes but its about time Bart came into his own and lose that stupid bratty attitude he has.

Paul Newell

10-23-2006, 09:32 PM

too soon? it was time for a change. west's been around well over 30 years (more or less?) I like all of the flashes but its about time Bart came into his own and lose that stupid bratty attitude he has.
20 years as the Flash....Around 45 as Kid Flash. :)

Bored at 3:00AM

10-23-2006, 10:42 PM

Aside from the fact I don't think they were ever "big time," they haven't had a TV series on the air in like 10 years. They've been writing video games and direct-to-video movies.

Fair enough. I'm not that up on the Hollywood grapevine.

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-24-2006, 09:14 AM

They also wrote the Rocketeer screenplay, last time I checked everyone loves that flick on the net. :p

Count Vertigo

10-24-2006, 10:41 AM

They also wrote the Rocketeer screenplay, last time I checked everyone loves that flick on the net. :p
Yeah well, it's a pulp hero. Some comic fans nowadays don't like the heroes from the 30s and 40s. In a popularity contest between the Batman and the Shadow, it's obvious Batman's going to win.

I, however, loved the film very much, alongside other movies like the Phantom, Shadow and Doc Savage. I even have the comics in which the movie is based on. So yes, there are much more than a handful of people who liked the Rocketeer.

Rich L

10-24-2006, 10:42 AM

They also wrote the Rocketeer screenplay, last time I checked everyone loves that flick on the net. :p

Great film.

The Flash TV series was heavily influenced by the Burton Batman movies but it was passable for the time.

And one of the writers does have a daughter who's kinda cute. ;)

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-24-2006, 05:33 PM

Yeah well, it's a pulp hero. Some comic fans nowadays don't like the heroes from the 30s and 40s. In a popularity contest between the Batman and the Shadow, it's obvious Batman's going to win.

I, however, loved the film very much, alongside other movies like the Phantom, Shadow and Doc Savage. I even have the comics in which the movie is based on. So yes, there are much more than a handful of people who liked the Rocketeer.

I love the film too, including the ones you mentioned. I didnt mean anything negative by my statement, I appologize if it came off that way. I guess I just wanted to point out that they wrote a movie thats pretty much universally praised, a movie that's usually pointed at when people want an example of "comic book films done right", in contrast to some of the opinions expressed about them as writers in this thread.

Count Vertigo

10-24-2006, 05:44 PM

I love the film too, including the ones you mentioned. I didnt mean anything negative by my statement, I appologize if it came off that way. I guess I just wanted to point out that they wrote a movie thats pretty much universally praised, a movie that's usually pointed at when people want an example of "comic book films done right", in contrast to some of the opinions expressed about them as writers in this thread.

ah @#$%. i just reread my msg here and I came off sounding pissed! Im sorry. Ididnt mean it like that!

the4thpip

10-25-2006, 09:53 AM

And I think the suit was more than chemically treated. We don't how it was changed because the change happened off-panel. I just assume that since S.T.A.R. Labs has had experience with this kind of thing that making such a suit doesn't really need explanation.

But that's the thing... Is it "Barry's suit" or did S.T.A.R. make it? It looks to me like a cheap stunt of trying to have their cake and eating it, too. They really want the "legacy connection" to Barry, and this seems a bit desperate.

Joe Acro

10-25-2006, 09:55 AM

According to Wikipedia, it's a new suit based on the design and structure of Barry's.

the4thpip

10-25-2006, 10:28 AM

Red with a yellow lightning bolt, a cotton-lycra mix? :confused:

TheTen-EyedMan

10-25-2006, 10:34 AM

Flash Tv Series - Yes

Rocketeer - Yes (Jennifer Connelly damnit)

New Flash comic - unfortunately no.

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-25-2006, 12:10 PM

ah @#$%. i just reread my msg here and I came off sounding pissed! Im sorry. Ididnt mean it like that!

s'all good chief, dont sweat it.

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-25-2006, 11:15 PM

I just listend to the latest Fanboy Radio which had the writers on as guests and apparently Scott Hinze LOVES this book and recommends it to everyone...

Will wonders never cease?

Anyway, they said that issue six will have a HUGE and IMPORTANT plot thread that'll explain everything.

Oh and all the net bitching bums out at least one of them, but not the other.

Alex L

10-26-2006, 10:19 AM

SKETCHSANCHEZ

10-26-2006, 10:30 AM

I'm hoping so.

Remember, everyone, Ion almost completely turned around in the space of what, 1-2 issues?

Too True, I LOVE Ion right now, but definitely wasnt feeling it for the first two.

Both Bilson and Dameo said on the show that trying to get what they had planned to mesh with the fall out from Infinite Crisis has been a real headache, y'know and Bart has been through ALOT in a short time and they just wanted to show the ramifications, have him deal, and finally accept his legacy and put on the damn ring.

THe interview gave me some hope, and now that they've finally gotten to the point where Bart has accepted that he's the damn Flash I'm interested to see what they've got in store.

Oh and Red Menace (Their wildstorm book) sounds awesome.