Birds of Prey #99 - SPOILERS - [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

MrSuslov

10-18-2006, 04:34 PM

-Me am fantastic at understanding Bizarro dialect.

-Ha ha, well-known allergy to bullets. Tee hee, lustful eyes for Guy Gardner. It's a good thing that there were some laughs in this one.

-Television antennae are your friend!

-I'd buy My Mother's Daughter for a dollar!

-The interplay between Babs and the Batpest is alternatively amusing, touching, and poignant. Yes, the kid needs to know the risks if she wants to play with the adults in the world of amateur crime fighting. At the same time, I'm not sure that I'd be so quick to give away the bullet if I were Babs.

-This is the first issue that I've actually liked the Huntress. That being said, she's still nowhere near being interesting enough to carry the team in the potential absence of the Black Canary. Promoting Zinda Blake to the front rank might help, but my interest in the book has essentially taken a bullet in the head.

-The art was hit or miss at times. Not my favorite issue in terms of visual appearance.

-"Impulsive, arrogant, bossy, untrusting, cocky, dizzy, silly, funny, caring". These words probably sum up my interest in the Canary far better than anything else I could come up with. Thanks for ghostwriting for me, Gail! (When I'm king of the world, I'll always need an Oregonian speechwriter...)

And in closing:
KILL THE LITTLE BRAT AND BRING THE ORIGINAL BIRD OF PREY BACK! I'm of course perturbed at the departure of Dinah, but I was hoping it would be something more than just that annoying child, who ought to stop a bullet at first convenience. I suppose the best that can be made of the situation is that the departure wasn't over Oliver Quinn. Nevertheless, thus endeth (apparently) my opportunity to read a monthly with the Black Canary, since JLA has failed miserably in giving me something that I want to read.

shrike

10-18-2006, 04:54 PM

OK, thank you for starting this thread.

My mother told me 'If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all'.

I hardly listen to my mother.

The main story is... serviceable. You know, though, in all honesty the last two mini arcs haven't grabbed my interest much. They don't have the personal touches overall or impact imo earlier Simone- penned stories had.

I'm going to cut to the chase and get to the last few pages of this issue, as really that's what most will talk about anyhow. I am disappointed, VERY disappointed. I can think of two phrases: 'character assassination' and 'cheap editorial mandate'. Basically I saw Canary revert back to her old costume for a lame reason and leave the Birds of Prey for an even LAMER reason. I saw Gail toss Canary pretty much back to Square One in regards to the character she developed. PEOPLE... this is the same Dinah Lance that has CONSISTANTLY, even Post OYL, discuss how she did not enjoy the JLA and preferred where her life was currently going. Come ON.

I'm not putting this blame at Gail's feet. In fact, I'm not even going to blame her for basically screwing over readers at what really might be her last Canary penned story. 100 will be my jumping off point. Canary should have left on a high note, something that really captured the readers with a story that left those who love BC saying 'f*ck YA!'. Instead, we were kind of given a very mundane, very typical, average story with BC little more than window dressing. I honestly think that this was dropped on Gail quickly, and therefore she had to make due with the timeframe she was given.

I have no doubt Gail adores the character of Dinah Lance. I have no doubt that the removal of the character was done against her wishes. I have no doubt Brad Meltzer will do nothing new with Dinah, and instead will pretty much be a background character instead of the DC heroine 'second only to Wonder Woman'.

Please don't even get me started on the art that made Dinah look like a drag queen... no offense to drag queens, of course.

I'm angry, I'm more than a bit upset at DC ('Disgustingly Craptacular') Comics, and I'm feeling like a jaded comics fan. This was NOT a good move to push the Birds of Prey to future success. Like I said before, Birds of Prey 100 SHOULD have been a celebration for this series, and now its more like a funeral.

Screw you, DC and Dan Didio.

... and to top it off, Grant Morrison's WILDATS and AUTHORITY sucked ass.

lol

DarkCrisis

10-18-2006, 06:35 PM

Okay so Dinah quits to be a better mom for Sin. Oracle understands this.

Whats Babs going to think when Dinah joins the JLA?

I'd be ticked. Doesn't have time for BoP but time for the JLA? Sure okay.

ChthonicSpirit

10-18-2006, 06:51 PM

Haven't read issue yet. Am so not looking forwards to it.

I second the 'Screw Dan Didio' sentiment.

bert

10-18-2006, 09:36 PM

I was extremely disappointed that we got absolutely NO insight into this Batgirl.

she constantly refers to Oracle as "Babs' and knows she was Batgirl.

she knows about Cassandra (and Babs doesn't bring up the fact she's evil now?. . . I know we all want to pretend that didnt' happen. . but wouldn't THAT be a good example of why being Batgirl isn't a great idea).

she knows all about the Birds. . .

and Oracle never asks "how" . . or "why" ?

color me disappointed by the issue.

Blight

10-19-2006, 12:21 AM

Oh Gail references what happened to Cassie in the previous issue. Babs makes a comment of, "Not since what happened to Cassie." when they start looking for this "Batgirl."

For me I'm sort of a new reader to BoP. What got me into this series was OYL and Lady Shiva being in the book. I stuck around it since then and this issue while the action was alright the dialogue between Babs/"Batgirl" and Babs/Dinah where more the highlights for me.

I kept thinking of this "Batgirl" she reminded me of a certian someone and Gail conveys that with having Babs go straight into the heart with talking about Steph Brown aka Spoiler to "Batgirl".

Still anyone have a feeling that this mystery girl might become a new Spoiler? She did promise Babs she stop being Batgirl but still try and be a super hero.

shrike

10-19-2006, 12:54 AM

Lester C.

10-19-2006, 01:31 AM

shrike

10-19-2006, 05:44 AM

Look at it this way. The removal of one character and the addition of several more is going to give this book fresh blood and a boost. There are going to be many exciting new directions and stories that Gail is going to be able to tell that she couldn't tell before. I initially hated the adding of Huntress and Zinda, but look at all the priceless moments and incredible stories we got over the past few years that would not have been possible if those two characters hadn’t jumped aboard.

You know, though, Birds Of Prey was originaly titled BLACK CANARY/ ORACLE: BIRDS OF PREY during its one shots. To me, the removal of Black Canary is akin to removing Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman from their respective titles. BoP, no matter how you cut it, IS Black Canary and Oracle. Their friendship is the entire premise of this series.

Personally, if you feel this way I'm not going to invalidate YOUR respective opinion... but I think personally if it takes the removal of what is arguably the 'Heart' of the Birds of Prey to give the series a 'boost' I'm not sure what kind of logic that is. BC has a very strong, very loyal fanbase... and with no disrespect to Gail, and maybe I'm just feeling overzealous, but I really see this as the moment where Birds 'Jumps the Shark'.

ChthonicSpirit

10-19-2006, 05:51 AM

All right, finally got my copy.

Initial impressions - high on emotion, humor, and action. Despite that, I still sensed a good deal of stage-setting. This issue isn't as important as has been suggested.

Now then, considering the main characters and events individually:

Batgirl: Still hard pressed to give a damn. She actually seemed considerably more psycho in this issue then the last one. She knows the chain of events that made Babs into Oracle, yet she still succumbs to the emotional blackmail with the bullet? I wasn't pleased to see Oracle use Spoiler, either, simply because it means that her death is still in continuity. Oh yeah, that reminds me: Fuck you, Dr. Thompkins. Die and go straight to hell.

Dinah: I was pleased to see that her lack of discipline since her return from the East is biting her in the ass. Winded by running a block. Heh.

Huntress: I loved the scene where she threatened Yasemin. It didn't feel contrived, or like a pat on the back. It felt real. Huntress has been too often defined by her team these days, but when she dangled Yasemin of that rooftop she was doing it for noone's reason's but her own. I also loved her telling Dinah that she "wasn't completely housebroken". It was starting to seem like no one on the team, Huntress included, remembered what Oracle did to her.

Sighhh - of course Dinah had to go and ruin it by saying "Helena will make you proud" to Oracle . . . .

If this is the big, apocalyptic breakup of the Oracle/Black Canary partnership, I find myself giving a damn less. I still wonder if Huntress might be the one to permanently leave, especially given that Yasemin did indeed figure out her identity. And Yasemin's vow was to leave the schoolchildren alone, not to refrain from interfering with Huntress in future.

Dinah's logic is somewhat strange. She quits in order to be 'kind of a mother' but joins that JLA? Something wrong there, which again suggests that these events are not conclusive. To put it another way, I'm not sure Dinah is 'leaving' in any meaningful sense of the word. AFter all, the solicts for #100 ask "who will fly the coop permanently?" (emphasis added).

Not even mentioning the bits where the artist based his Dinah on Dr. Frank N. Furter. Good thing the new lady is coming in.;)

Sharpandpointies

10-19-2006, 06:18 AM

Not even mentioning the bits where the artist based his Dinah on Dr. Frank N. Furter. Good thing the new lady is coming in.;)

Oh, yeah. I'm really looking forward to this one....

:)

Gail Simone

10-19-2006, 08:38 PM

DungeonmasterJim

10-19-2006, 08:45 PM

I didn't mind issue 99. Certainly didn't hate it. New Atom #4? I didn't even bother to finish it.

I guess I need good stories & characters I like to like a comic.

DM Jim

Gail Simone

10-19-2006, 09:06 PM

Yikes.

Gail

bert

10-19-2006, 09:07 PM

Who said we'd find that out this issue???

Gail

while I wasn't expecting MAJOR revelations, I was at least expecting a question from Oracle (How do you know our identities (myself as the former Batgirl, Helena as Huntress), and so much about us?. . how did you discover the watchtower?).

I was expecting something.

not for Babs to immediately start to think of this girl in the same breath as the Teen Titans. . . .

Sorry, Gail. . I loves ya, but this issue was way off for me (but that's OK, because Secret Six rocks . . and I'm loving Atom!

yay Giganta! :))

and I just added your new creator owned book to my pull list (Tranquility? was that it?). Haven't read Gen13 yet, but I bought it.

Lester C.

10-19-2006, 09:10 PM

You know, though, Birds Of Prey was originaly titled BLACK CANARY/ ORACLE: BIRDS OF PREY during its one shots. To me, the removal of Black Canary is akin to removing Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman from their respective titles. BoP, no matter how you cut it, IS Black Canary and Oracle. Their friendship is the entire premise of this series.

Personally, if you feel this way I'm not going to invalidate YOUR respective opinion... but I think personally if it takes the removal of what is arguably the 'Heart' of the Birds of Prey to give the series a 'boost' I'm not sure what kind of logic that is. BC has a very strong, very loyal fanbase... and with no disrespect to Gail, and maybe I'm just feeling overzealous, but I really see this as the moment where Birds 'Jumps the Shark'.
I was just trying to make you guys feel better about her leaving. Sorry it didn't work.

bert

10-19-2006, 09:14 PM

maybe I'm just feeling overzealous, but I really see this as the moment where Birds 'Jumps the Shark'.

That's OK, I'm sure Bruce has given Babs some "Bat Shark Repellent"

Lester C.

10-19-2006, 09:31 PM

titanfan

10-19-2006, 09:35 PM

So are we at least going to get the story of how Gail gave Brad a black eye for stealing Black Canary?!?!?!

Lester C.

10-19-2006, 09:38 PM

Let's assume the rumor is true that Brad is getting Black Canary. It's not as if he is going to have her forever. Think of it as a loan that will eventually be paid back. As a side note why is it Marvel characters can star in many books, but DC limit's them to one for the most part?

shrike

10-19-2006, 09:40 PM

Sorry, Lester, it's sweet that you are cheerleading for this book, but basically I'm a BC fan. I've absolutely zero interest in a book with the characters who are at the very least in the next arc.

Like I said before, nothing personal re:Gail, I just will be dropping this title with 100.

I adore Ann Rice books as well, but there are many things by her I don't pick up just because the subject matter does nothing to interest me.

Sharpandpointies

10-19-2006, 09:42 PM

One last thing and then I'll stop trying to inject hope to you guys. I truly believe that what separate a person that's successful from a person that fails is the ability take a negative and flip it into a positive. If it's true that Black Canary is leaving the book that's a huge negative and probably one that Gail has no control over. That said I believe in Gail. She was able to put together two critically and commercially successful mini series based on a bunch of third and fourth string villains. I have faith that with the New Birds of Prey team Gail is going to do it again, because that what she does.

The question is, though, how many people are interested in BoP, and how many people are interested in Oracle/Canary? For those who are okay with the other characters, sure. The New BoP (sans Canary) would work just fine.

But for myself, I dislike Zinda intensely (that should probably be in the unpopular opinions thread) and I'm definitely not a Huntress fan. Canary and Oracle were my big draws.

shrike

10-19-2006, 09:44 PM

But for myself, I dislike Zinda intensely (that should probably be in the unpopular opinions thread)

No, you aren't alone.

When Zinda was introduced she was kind of neat. She's actually become more and more a parody of herself and her over the top naivete is fairly grating.

Sharpandpointies

10-19-2006, 10:00 PM

No, you aren't alone.

When Zinda was introduced she was kind of neat. She's actually become more and more a parody of herself and her over the top naivete is fairly grating.

Yes, that's pretty much the reason. Plus the gunfire. For a group that doesn't want to have its members killing people, they sure tolerate a lot of that sort of thing (volleys of crossbow bolts, shotgun blasts, etc).

MrSuslov

10-19-2006, 10:21 PM

One last thing and then I'll stop trying to inject hope to you guys.
Lester, I too appreciate your efforts, but nobody can make a silk purse out of the sow's ear that I appear to have been handed in #99. (OK, well maybe Drs. Fate & Strange, but you see where I'm going with this.) Where I sit, the book needed neither new blood nor boost; if it had to happen, there was room for expansion with existing characters.

Essentially, the heart of the book and team that brought me back to comics has been ripped out, and I'm supposed to replace my favorite DCU character (and probable overall, if I had to choose) with the Huntress? Nuh uh. It ain't possible. I'm not sure Zinda Blake can compensate, because she's the pistol-packin' pilot with last century's sass and sensibility. It's a role that I'm very glad she plays and I like the character a lot. But that's not a leading role. Where Babs is concerned, yeah, she's great and all, but it's like Dragnet after Joe Friday leaves to join the FBI. She can't carry it either, and she's already a leading character.

Gypsy, although potentially interesting, does not appear to create the sort of interest that could keep me buying the book. It takes a lot for a character to overcome the burden of being a kid in my book, and invisibility doesn't cut it. The jury remains out on Rhosyn Forrest, who could be interesting, and I hope we see more of her so that I may make a more reliable assessment.

The question is, though, how many people are interested in BoP, and how many people are interested in Oracle/Canary?
I doubt it'll surprise anyone, but I'm firmly in the latter camp. As far as I'm concerned, Black Canary/Oracle is the Birds of Prey. Everyone else is there to pick up a check.

Nothing that I have seen in two issues of JLA has convinced me that Dinah Lance will be anything other than a second- or third-tier character who occasionally shows up. I don't even like the art in that book. Handing her off to the JLA is, as I said somewhere before, a demotion in my eyes. It's not a loan, it's more akin to grand theft Canary.

There is no joy in Mudville; Canary Dinah has bailed out. :(

Gail Simone

10-19-2006, 10:23 PM

The Xenos

10-19-2006, 10:41 PM

I have no doubt Gail adores the character of Dinah Lance. I have no doubt that the removal of the character was done against her wishes. I have no doubt Brad Meltzer will do nothing new with Dinah, and instead will pretty much be a background character instead of the DC heroine 'second only to Wonder Woman'.

Please don't even get me started on the art that made Dinah look like a drag queen... no offense to drag queens, of course.

Don't forget the action figure based on the book that made her look like a drag queen. (No offense to drag queens, of course.) Also, let's not forget the action figure in the same line that raped her friend. Though I think they also sell maybe one based on the cartoon version from the Teen Titans kids show. Cause you know everyone wants their kid playing with a Black Canary that looks like a RuPaul and a figure of a guy who gleefully raped someone.

Sure, give Black Canary over to Meltzer who's repsonsible for all that and take her away from Gail and Birds of Prey. Heck, I'm not even a big fan of the character, only having become one from Birds, and I think that really stinks.

I was amazing at how terrible Identity Crisis was. The weird thing is I rather liked Meltzer from his Green Arrow run. Then I decided to skip the mini series. Then I started to hear the buzz about it and looked at it in the store. Ugh. It was terrible.

And THAT'S who DC decides to give this character over to? Ugh. Nevermind the rest of the JLA and the title itself.

I'm angry, I'm more than a bit upset at DC ('Disgustingly Craptacular') Comics, and I'm feeling like a jaded comics fan. This was NOT a good move to push the Birds of Prey to future success. Like I said before, Birds of Prey 100 SHOULD have been a celebration for this series, and now its more like a funeral.

Screw you, DC and Dan Didio.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I gotta admit, I came to this book for Babs / Oracle, so I'm staying and looking forward to more. Also, Huntress. I was quite glad she joined. We've also had other character join the team from time to time. It also looks like we might have some more joining and it looks amazing. (Kate Spencer / Manhunter maybe? Woot!)

Though, yes, it just doesn't feel right without Dinah. I too miss her already.

Also, I will also add the "Screw Dan Didio." The man may take some arrows for some of his authors, but the guy just isn't leading DC anywhere good himself. From Identity Crisis's author on JLA with Dinah, to the Nightwing fiasco, to the whole Cassanda Cain and Batwoman farce. I can't stand the guy.

... and to top it off, Grant Morrison's WILDATS and AUTHORITY sucked ass.

Eh. Wildcats was.. eh. I didn't mind it. Though I certainly wasn't blown away like the hype made it seem I should have been. The Authority? There was a book that had the Authority in it that came out? Funny, I didn't see any book with the Authority in it.

Oh yeah, other than the suckitude of DInah leaving, it was a good issue. I was a bit disapointed we didn't lean more about that strange Batgirl wannabe. She's a teleporter? That's it? How the hell did she know all she did and how the hell did they just let her go? Eh. Maybe I was just hoping for some short of other dimentional thing like Mxy. Or maybe Ambush Bug. Still don't know what the hell he is. Just saw him in 52 and liked him. Reminded me of this girl.

I'm just going to lay this out because there are already spoilers in this title, but its assumed that 'Batgirl' will end up the new heroine 'Misfit' that can be found on the back page of Dan Didio's column in DC comics from last week.

And what the hell is with Didio's columns? He's always got this flaunting tone in them. Is it just me that feels that? Plus he's pulling the punchline on characters before the authors of the books can. He gave us more info on this character, namely her name, than this issue of Birds of Prey did. That sucks. And HE'S supposed to be the guy in charge? Talk about spoilers.

shrike

10-19-2006, 10:45 PM

Jeez, Shrike, I GET it.

I mean, I understand, I'm sorry you're quitting, but yikes...I KNOW!

;-)

Gail

Oh Gail just stop it I know it makes you hot and bothered when I say that!

*holds up the nuh huh hand*

WHATEVS!

MrSuslov

10-19-2006, 11:02 PM

Kate Spencer / Manhunter maybe? Woot!
Yeah, this might be interesting if she could somehow ditch the mask. I don't dig masks.

Though, yes, it just doesn't feel right without Dinah. I too miss her already.
Quoted for concurrence and truth.

The Authority? There was a book that had the Authority in it that came out? Funny, I didn't see any book with the Authority in it.
Huh, I thought it was just the copy or so that I read in the store. Jenny Quantum's supposed to be on this team, right? If so, I can probably save the three bucks and keep funding Secret Six.

d newton

10-19-2006, 11:52 PM

I was amazed at how terrible Identity Crisis was.
Wait, you liked his GA run but not this mini? :(

But for myself, I dislike Zinda intensely (that should probably be in the unpopular opinions thread).
Reread BOP 83 - Zinda cares about her fellow birds. "Can I get you a drink, Skipper?"

I'm angry, I'm more than a bit upset at DC, and I'm feeling like a jaded comics fan. This was NOT a good move to push the Birds of Prey to future success. Like I said before, Birds of Prey 100 SHOULD have been a celebration for this series, and now it's more like a funeral.

Isn't this a bit mean?

YoGo

10-20-2006, 12:04 AM

As with all Gail's stories she's setup something and people are upset. But she's nowhere near tying up the loose ends. I can't wait to see what happens.

elias_A

10-20-2006, 02:25 AM

Wow. As a Cassandra Cain/Batgirl fan, it's very interesting to watch people moan because their favorite character has to join the JLA.

You guys think you've got problems? :)

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 03:24 AM

Reread BOP 83 - Zinda cares about her fellow birds. "Can I get you a drink, Skipper?"

And this means I should like her...why? I'm sorry, I just don't understand the response.

Wow. As a Cassandra Cain/Batgirl fan, it's very interesting to watch people moan because their favorite character has to join the JLA.

You guys think you've got problems? :)

Yes, yes we do.

I'm a Cass fan. I was crushed when the series ended, I was livid when Cass was abducted by pod people and replaced with that thing. I still am, which is likely immediately obvious if one reads my posts.

That said, I don't want to lose another of my series. But it's looking like that will happen.

Given what happened to Cass, one might think you'd have a little sympathy for the Dinah fans.

d newton

10-20-2006, 04:04 AM

And this means I should like her...why? I'm sorry, I just don't understand the response.
Oh, it wasn't directed at you - one of the posters disliked Lady Blackhawk so I decided to give an example of why she isn't.

I'm a Cass fan. I was crushed when the series ended, I was livid when Cass was abducted by pod people and replaced with that thing. I still am, which is likely immediately obvious if one reads my posts.
How long do I have to read comments like this one? :(

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 04:21 AM

Oh, it wasn't directed at you - one of the posters disliked Lady Blackhawk so I decided to give an example of why she isn't.

Of why she 'isn't'...what? You failed to complete that sentence.

I was the poster who dislikes Lady Blackhawk, btw. You quoted me.

How long do I have to read comments like this one? :(

As long as there's an internet, baby.

d newton

10-20-2006, 05:10 AM

:o So why do you dislike Zinda?

As long as there's an internet, baby.
Can't you think of something else to moan about?

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 05:31 AM

:o So why do you dislike Zinda?

Go back and read Shrike's post.

Plus, she has this habit of blazing away with firearms when the Birds are supposed to be 'anti-killing'. I've never liked 'gun-bunny' characters, and that's what she's turning out to be.

Can't you think of something else to moan about?

Maybe I could.

Wait, I have a better idea.

Maybe you could be a little less rude, and just put me on ignore if it bugs you so much? :)

elias_A

10-20-2006, 05:40 AM

And this means I should like her...why? I'm sorry, I just don't understand the response.

Yes, yes we do.

I'm a Cass fan. I was crushed when the series ended, I was livid when Cass was abducted by pod people and replaced with that thing. I still am, which is likely immediately obvious if one reads my posts.

That said, I don't want to lose another of my series. But it's looking like that will happen.

Given what happened to Cass, one might think you'd have a little sympathy for the Dinah fans.

Hey, I was joking. What I meant is just that, even is Canary is now handled in a different way by a writer you don't like, that there is no character assasination or radical retcon involved.
But I admit it means a character losing its more-or-less solo title, so I guess you have a point.

ChthonicSpirit

10-20-2006, 05:47 AM

How long do I have to read comments like this one? :(

Until Evil Cass makes any kind of sense?

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 05:51 AM

Hey, I was joking. What I meant is just that, even is Canary is now handled in a different way by a writer you don't like, that there is no character assasination or radical retcon involved.
But I admit it means a character losing its more-or-less solo title, so I guess you have a point.

Didn't see a smilie, so I assumed you were not joking.

Nope, there's no character assassination, no retcon. But if I want to see Canary, I have now have to buy JLA.

I'm not interested in JLA. Not a bit. It's not my cup of tea.

So I've effectively 'lost' Canary as well, assuming this isn't some big red herring and she pops back in two issues like someone who promised to 'Leave the messageboards 4evar!!11' :)

Which also means I've probably lost BoP as well. I'm not interested enough in the rest of the characters to continue spending the money on it. I'll check it when I'm actually in a comic shop, just to see if I like what's going on, to see if any of the new characters grab me.

But otherwise...I returned to buying comics with BoP, in the Sensei and Student arc. With Batgirl over, and BoP dropping off my interest list, looks like I'm ready to bow out again.

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 05:52 AM

Until Evil Cass makes any kind of sense?

Pod person! I keep telling people that, but they don't listen! DC is crossing over with Body Snatchers! Someone listen to me!!!

blackcanary_416

10-20-2006, 05:59 AM

All I'm going to say is great issue Gail :)

d newton

10-20-2006, 06:12 AM

Go back and read Shrike's post.
I did - it was not very nice to read.

Plus, she has this habit of blazing away with firearms when the Birds are supposed to be 'anti-killing'. I've never liked 'gun-bunny' characters, and that's what she's turning out to be.
I'm assuming this is a reference to issue 90?

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 06:22 AM

I did - it was not very nice to read.

It wasn't? Seemed like someone just expressing their feelings on the matter. Let's go look.

When Zinda was introduced she was kind of neat. She's actually become more and more a parody of herself and her over the top naivete is fairly grating.

Nothing insulting there. Just someone saying why they don't like the character. Which also sums up part of my dislike for her - I just don't like the character. Personal preference.

I'm assuming this is a reference to issue 90?

Actually, wasn't referring to that.

The Prometheus arc (automatic weapons fire in a public place, shotgun usage) for one. Opening fire on Black Alice for another.

Oh, it wasn't directed at you - one of the posters disliked Lady Blackhawk so I decided to give an example of why she isn't.

Since you're looking for explanations, I'm still waiting for one explaining what you mean by 'she isn't'. She isn't what?

Dr Ray Palmer

10-20-2006, 06:38 AM

Let's assume the rumor is true that Brad is getting Black Canary. It's not as if he is going to have her forever.

That's the way I'm trying to look at it. If BC is indeed leaving BoP so she can go be wallpaper in Meltzer's JLA, then yeah, it should only be temporary. He's only on for what, 12 issues? So he ought to get those cranked out in 2 years, and then Gail can have her back. (Note I am not considering the possibility that Gail might not still be on BoP in 2 years.)

It's probably better not to think about how long it might take Gail to undo whatever damage Meltzer may do to Dinah's character in JLA. (I'm afraid that having her stand around looking worried and getting her ass kicked like an amateur may be the least of our worries.)

I do think that if Canary is really leaving the Birds, we're gonna need a hell of a story to explain why "I'm leaving the Birds to go raise my child" suddenly turned into "I don't have time for the Birds, but I do have time to go play twelfth wheel in a new iteration of the JLA which mostly consists of a bunch of people I barely know and/or am not close to at all." Maybe the BC story we're supposed to get in BoP #100 will be filling in that gap.

As a side note why is it Marvel characters can star in many books, but DC limit's them to one for the most part?

Except if we look at who's going to be in JLA, we've got Batman, who's in JLA and several of his own books; Superman, who's in JLA and several of his own books; and Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Hawkgirl, all of whom are in JLA and their own books. So if Canary is really being yanked out of BoP so Meltzer can have her, then it seems to me that the only character in his cast of 20 or whatever it is who has a "one book only" rule is ... Black Canary. (And possibly Arsenal, if Judd Winnick wasn't already planning to take him out of Outsiders).

Anyone care to start a pool on how many issues of JLA Meltzer will be able to control himself before he has Dinah and Roy hook up?

Dr Ray Palmer

10-20-2006, 06:43 AM

Also, unlike a lot of people here, I did like BoP #99 quite a bit (I especially loved the first half of the issue -- pretty much all the Canary/Huntress stuff). I'll try to write about that later when I have more time. Of course I can always find time to rant, as in my previous post, but it's tougher to find time to say something thoughtful. :)

d newton

10-20-2006, 04:07 PM

It wasn't? Seemed like someone just expressing their feelings on the matter. Let's go look.
I never use swear words when I'm mad with comic companies.

The Prometheus arc (automatic weapons fire in a public place, shotgun usage) for one. Opening fire on Black Alice for another.
The 2 characters you mention were:
A - a bad guy.
B - someone who was going to turn bad.

TCJohnson

10-20-2006, 04:35 PM

but still, good guys don't let off machine guns in public areas.

d newton, weren't you the guy who demanded people who were not happy with Batgirl/Cassandra be banned?

Cam63

10-20-2006, 04:42 PM

I know the cops have a strict " no shooting " policy when there's bystanders about and will only shoot if they're 100 % certain they have a clear shot at the badguy.

Most cops who have a 20 year career ( or longer ) ever have to use their pistol/shotgun.

ChthonicSpirit

10-20-2006, 05:00 PM

The 2 characters you mention were:
A - a bad guy.
B - someone who was going to turn bad.

Shooting at prometheus was acceptable. But prior to that, in the fight with the HIVE agents, she used a hybrid shotgun/belt-fed machine gun. While leaning out the window of a car. A car that was driving down a city street. Because not one of those rounds would hit anything but what she was aiming at.

As for Black Alice, the fact that Zinda apparently didn't think that someone with Wonder Woman's powers could, you know, use Wonder Woman's powers is exasperating, but it wasn't quite as dumb as the fight with HIVE.

The Xenos

10-20-2006, 05:11 PM

Anyone care to start a pool on how many issues of JLA Meltzer will be able to control himself before he has Dinah and Roy hook up?

-shudder- Ugh. I'm still irked and in denial that Winick had Huntress sleep with Roy in his Real World DCU book... er.. I mean.. in his Outsiders book.

ChthonicSpirit

10-20-2006, 05:47 PM

-shudder- Ugh. I'm still irked and in denial that Winick had Huntress sleep with Roy in his Real World DCU book... er.. I mean.. in his Outsiders book.

At least he wasn't a lecherous parking attendant. *grumble, snark*

The Xenos

10-20-2006, 07:51 PM

At least he wasn't a lecherous parking attendant. *grumble, snark*

I have no clue what you are talking about. Quit joshing around. I know of no Birds character who would do such a thing. Nope. Can't think of what you're talking about. Not at all. Nope.

Well, unless Creote suddenly took a job down at the local lot. Zinda would definately want her ticket stamped then. So she could validate her parking. Open the gate for her. And... I'm outta parking attendant puns.

Lester C.

10-20-2006, 08:04 PM

At least he wasn't a lecherous parking attendant. *grumble, snark*
I want to be a lurker but you guys make it so hard. Anyway the reason why she slept with Josh, in my opinion, was to show how bad Helena's self esteem was. She was hitting rock bottom, a process that had been going on in the bat books years before Gail grabbed the character. This was the reason why she slept with Nightwing, Aresonal, The Question among other people. She was looking to make herself feel better by the false hope that because I connect with another person physically then I'm going to be in a relationship and live happily ever after. Josh wanted Helena and that's the only reason why she slept with him, because to her that want symbolized love and she was so desperate to find love and acceptance that she was willing to do anything.

After sleeping with Josh, she finally hit rock bottom. She realized that only she was going to be able to heal herself and that wasn't going to happen if she kept looking for others to accept her, define her and give her life meaning. Only then was she able to begin the healing process, let go of her anger issues, and become a whole person.

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 08:28 PM

I never use swear words when I'm mad with comic companies.

Funny, there weren't any swear words in the post I quoted.

Wait! Here's the whole post!

No, you aren't alone.

When Zinda was introduced she was kind of neat. She's actually become more and more a parody of herself and her over the top naivete is fairly grating.

Nope. No swearing.

The 2 characters you mention were:
A - a bad guy.
B - someone who was going to turn bad.

1. The Birds have a 'no killing' rule.
2. If you think it's okay to shoot someone who is considering turning 'bad' due to manipulation, someone who also happens to be well under her age of majority...well, we have nothing more to talk about.

Also, as Cthonicspirit pointed out, in the Prometheus arc I was referring to Zinda letting off with an automatic weapon from an unstable perch on a moving car. In the middle of a city.

You know, with other people around and stuff.

Aside: The Black Alice thing? It doesn't bug me so much that Zinda being a little oblivious. It bugged me because Zinda obviously thought shooting at Alice would WORK.

Which means that Zinda opened fire with automatic pistols at Black Alice expecting them to do their job. Which is to kill the target. Which means Zinda opened fire on a confused, manipulated girl, in an attempt to kill her.

I don't think Zinda should be allowed in the field.

And by the way, d newton, I'm still waiting for you to explain this:

]Oh, it wasn't directed at you - one of the posters disliked Lady Blackhawk so I decided to give an example of why she isn't.

What do you mean, 'why she isn't.' Why she isn't...what?

Sharpandpointies

10-20-2006, 08:30 PM

d newton, weren't you the guy who demanded people who were not happy with Batgirl/Cassandra be banned?

Oh, he's THAT guy? :)

ChthonicSpirit

10-20-2006, 10:09 PM

I have no clue what you are talking about. Quit joshing around. I know of no Birds character who would do such a thing. Nope. Can't think of what you're talking about. Not at all. Nope.

Glad to hear it. You're right of course - who could ever concieve of such a thing?

I want to be a lurker but you guys make it so hard. Anyway the reason why she slept with Josh, in my opinion, was to show how bad Helena's self esteem was. She was hitting rock bottom, a process that had been going on in the bat books years before Gail grabbed the character. This was the reason why she slept with Nightwing, Aresonal, The Question among other people. She was looking to make herself feel better by the false hope that because I connect with another person physically then I'm going to be in a relationship and live happily ever after. Josh wanted Helena and that's the only reason why she slept with him, because to her that want symbolized love and she was so desperate to find love and acceptance that she was willing to do anything.

After sleeping with Josh, she finally hit rock bottom. She realized that only she was going to be able to heal herself and that wasn't going to happen if she kept looking for others to accept her, define her and give her life meaning. Only then was she able to begin the healing process, let go of her anger issues, and become a whole person.

Not saying a word. Nope, not a word. If that's your interpretation, you're welcome to it.

. . . but God, did you even read the stories you refer to there?

The Xenos

10-21-2006, 01:17 AM

Um.. also maybe she slept with Nightwing because... he's a damn hottie. Also, I guess Question is sexy in that crazy Holden Caufield sorta way. (I don't understand it myself. I just know it works on Sicilian women somehow. Hell, I wasn't even wearing my trenchcoat yet.)

Meanwhile, I think Roy is a jerk and a slimeball and I wouldn't wish any girl I knew to end up with him. Though maybe I need to read more books with him and am not giving him a fair deal.

Though certianly any hypothetical parking attendant, let's call him.. eh.. Josh.. who Helena hypothetically slept with was much much slimier than Roy and much further down the ladder.

All I'm saying is, Nightwing or Question? Nice! Roy or this hypothetical Josh character? Eh.. I think she can do much better.

d newton

10-21-2006, 04:36 AM

Funny, there weren't any swear words in the post I quoted.

Wait! Here's the whole post!
Did you actually read the whole post or just the bits which didn't have any swear words in them?

Sharpandpointies

10-21-2006, 06:42 AM

Did you actually read the whole post or just the bits which didn't have any swear words in them?

So now you're trying to make it look like I don't know what I'm talking about? How interesting...and rude. This coming from someone who dislikes swearing. I believe that falls under 'hypocrisy'.

It's becoming apparant you have no idea what post I meant when we started this little discussion. You'll find it on page two of this thread.

Here.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3850004&postcount=23

There's the post. No swearing there.

In fact, I'll repeat the post here.

10-19-2006, 7:44 PM.

Shrike replies to me as follows:

But for myself, I dislike Zinda intensely (that should probably be in the unpopular opinions thread)

No, you aren't alone.

When Zinda was introduced she was kind of neat. She's actually become more and more a parody of herself and her over the top naivete is fairly grating.

That's the whole post. So yes, I did 'actually' read the whole post. And funny thing, I don't see any swear words in there (unless you consider 'grating', 'parody', and 'naivete' swear words). Given that you implied I don't know what I'm talking about, that I didn't read the post correctly...well, check out a mirror.

I notice you didn't answer any of my other points. That's fine. But I'm still curious what you meant by this:

Oh, it wasn't directed at you - one of the posters disliked Lady Blackhawk so I decided to give an example of why she isn't.

So, once again, ad nauseum, 'why she isn't' what?

ChthonicSpirit

10-21-2006, 07:05 AM

Did you actually read the whole post or just the bits which didn't have any swear words in them?

Uhh . . . Shrike has only sworn once on this entire thread. It was in her initial post, and she censored herself.

Which, I suppose is rude . . . sort of.

Gail Simone

10-21-2006, 07:37 AM

Funny, there weren't any swear words in the post I quoted.

Wait! Here's the whole post!

Nope. No swearing.

1. The Birds have a 'no killing' rule.
2. If you think it's okay to shoot someone who is considering turning 'bad' due to manipulation, someone who also happens to be well under her age of majority...well, we have nothing more to talk about.

Also, as Cthonicspirit pointed out, in the Prometheus arc I was referring to Zinda letting off with an automatic weapon from an unstable perch on a moving car. In the middle of a city.

You know, with other people around and stuff.

Aside: The Black Alice thing? It doesn't bug me so much that Zinda being a little oblivious. It bugged me because Zinda obviously thought shooting at Alice would WORK.

Which means that Zinda opened fire with automatic pistols at Black Alice expecting them to do their job. Which is to kill the target. Which means Zinda opened fire on a confused, manipulated girl, in an attempt to kill her.

I don't think Zinda should be allowed in the field.

And by the way, d newton, I'm still waiting for you to explain this:

What do you mean, 'why she isn't.' Why she isn't...what?

Huh?

Why would you come to that conclusion? Zinda's a bit naive and time-lost, but she's not stupid. She knows Black Alice has Wonder Woman's powers and can lift a car. Why in the world would she think bullets would kill Alice?

Gail

Sharpandpointies

10-21-2006, 11:18 AM

Huh?

Why would you come to that conclusion? Zinda's a bit naive and time-lost, but she's not stupid. She knows Black Alice has Wonder Woman's powers and can lift a car. Why in the world would she think bullets would kill Alice?

She obviously didn't know Alice could reflect the bullets back. She says as much when Alice does.

This, to me, means one of the following.

1. She knows Wonder Woman's powers, but somehow didn't know Black Alice could reflect bullets. Well, Wonder Woman can be killed by bullets. So she fired knowing Wonder Woman could be killed by bullets while thinking Alice couldn't reflect the bullets back.

2. She didn't know any of Alice's powers, other than what she saw. All she saw was meta-strength and a lasso. If that's the case, she was taking a horrendous chance with firing at Alice - what if Alice WASN'T invulnerable? Bullets can kill Spider-man just as easily as anyone else - Super-strength does not automatically come with invulnerability.

In either case, the fact that she opened fire and then was surprised when Alice reflected the bullets indicates she wasn't aware of the bullet-reflecting capabilities (which is kind of 'what?' considering Alice already blocked Huntress' arrows, but bullets ARE a little more difficult to block than a crossbow bolt, I expect). Thus, she was taking a huge chance regarding Alice's invulnerability (if she didn't know WW's powers) or she was firing at her knowing full well WW isn't immune to bullets (if she DID know WW's powers, which you say she did).

Perhaps I'm missing something. But this is how I see it, given the evidence that was presented.

Edit: Sorry if that comes off sounding cranky. I'm having a bad morning, and I just realized it's reflecting in my posting. Apologies. :) If I've missed something in the situation, I'd be more than happy to be corrected!

MrSuslov

10-21-2006, 11:41 AM

The 2 characters you mention were:
A - a bad guy.
B - someone who was going to turn bad.
To be fair, Zinda was opening fire on winged pursuit goons in a public place, and I think she was using a shotgun to do so. I think that's what the original poster was getting at; IIRC, it's a long-standing policy of Oracle's that guns are bad. I vaguely remember her chewing out Miss Lance for hearing gunfire over the transmitter thingies in an early Chuck Dixon ish.

Shooting at Prometheus, on the other hand, seems like a solid idea. He's not Agent Smith, after all, and it would probably have been appropriate for Zinda to have tersely uttered, "Dodge this!" As for shooting at Black Alice, I suppose the folly of it was shown next panel. That being said, I would have done it too; y'never know if she's as fast as Wonder Woman or as smart; the kid might have slipped and been winged or actually neutralized as a result.

Nothing I say should be construed as a lack of support for Zinda Blake. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Dr Ray Palmer

10-21-2006, 11:45 AM

I wouldn't have thought that Wonder Woman could be killed by bullets, and I've probably been exposed to her more over the years than Zinda has. Also, I don't think we can tell what part of Black Alice's body Zinda is aiming at, so I don't think we can assume she's shooting to kill. For all we know, she could be trying to shoot Lori in the arm, or leg, or butt, or any number of other nonfatal places. (I would guess arm since that's what Lori is using to strangle Canary.)

The fact that Zinda is still on the payroll suggests to me that Oracle doesn't believe she was attempting to kill Black Alice. I think if Babs believed she was actually trying to murder Alice, Zinda's ass would've been in the unemployment line faster than you can say "the boy is fancy?!?" So if Oracle's comfortable with it, so am I.

But honestly, Sharpandpointies, I'm not trying to change your mind or convince you of anything. It seems you've decided Zinda is a horrible person and a lousy character, and that's your prerogative.

I want MORE ZINDA!!!

TCJohnson

10-21-2006, 11:55 AM

Uhh . . . Shrike has only sworn once on this entire thread. It was in her initial post, and she censored herself.

Well, techinically, "... and to top it off, Grant Morrison's WILDATS and AUTHORITY sucked ass" could be seen as swearing. Not that I have any problem with it or Shrike, just pointing it out.

Corrina

10-21-2006, 01:41 PM

2. She didn't know any of Alice's powers, other than what she saw. All she saw was meta-strength and a lasso. If that's the case, she was taking a horrendous chance with firing at Alice - what if Alice WASN'T invulnerable? Bullets can kill Spider-man just as easily as anyone else - Super-strength does not automatically come with invulnerability.

She knows that Black Alice has Canary and Huntress on the ropes, not to mention Talia's group. She might have hoped the gun would work to stop Alice but I doubt she expected the bullets to kill.

But it would make an interesting storyline to explore the difference in methods between Zinda and Babs. Zinda has a soldier's background--kill in self-defense, if necessary. Babs obviously doesn't have quite the same take on it.

SteelChrysanthemum

10-21-2006, 02:38 PM

Finally got my copy of 99. Woo!

A little disappointing and understated. I expected more from Dinah leaving and more of a focus on her. Her reasons make sense at the moment, but when she pops up in JLA, I'm hoping there is a good explanation.

No idea why Yasmine was in the issue, though she did highlight my primary complaint against BoP for several issues. We keep getting told people are great, skilled, powerful, then their results don't reflect the hype. To much talk and not show. Female Deashot my eye, he'd have taken her out pretty easily. She'd flinch from possibly dying.

I really enjoyed Babs/Batgirl for the most part. Bugs the heck out of me that Babs didn't ask the obvious questions, like "Who are you, how do you know this, and please quit giving away other people's secret information while fighting in public." But it makes perfect sense to me that Babs would want to talk the girl out of being Batgirl, and talking the girl out of making what Babs would see as a mistake.

I was expecting a much bigger storyarc for the 100th issue, so I'm now curious to see what comes up next. I'm not one of the people who think BoP can't go on without Dinah, so I'll give it a chance. But I'm still a little disappointed. I liked Dinah. I liked her relationship with Shiva. Aside from Gypsy, Shiva and the rest of the BoP never seemed to get along. Shiva and Gypsy could have some potential but in a different way than with Dinah.

SteelChrysanthemum

10-21-2006, 02:44 PM

She knows that Black Alice has Canary and Huntress on the ropes, not to mention Talia's group. She might have hoped the gun would work to stop Alice but I doubt she expected the bullets to kill.The purpose of using a handgun is to kill, unless we are doing one of those 'this is a comic and I (the character) know guns rarely kill anyone in a costume in comics' things. But then I've always assumed a gun could hurt Wonder Woman as well. Otherwise, she doesn't need to deflect the bullets.

But it would make an interesting storyline to explore the difference in methods between Zinda and Babs. Zinda has a soldier's background--kill in self-defense, if necessary. Babs obviously doesn't have quite the same take on it.I tend to see someone with a soldiers background as 'kill when necessary to fulfill the mission' as well as self defense. Which I don't mind, but I want to see the arguement between Babs and Zinda about reckless use of lethal force. If this has already come up, I've missed it, but it would make a good scene. They seem to have almost incompatible viewpoints on use of force.

ChthonicSpirit

10-21-2006, 04:13 PM

But it would make an interesting storyline to explore the difference in methods between Zinda and Babs. Zinda has a soldier's background--kill in self-defense, if necessary. Babs obviously doesn't have quite the same take on it.

That really needs to be dealt with. I mean, Babs was clearly willing to send Huntress to jail for killing. Now Babs is empoying someone clearly willing to kill, with no questions asked or directives given? Seems a tad hypocritical, but then again she never had a problem with Dinah's history of killing either.

Lester C.

10-21-2006, 04:40 PM

Not saying a word. Nope, not a word. If that's your interpretation, you're welcome to it.

. . . but God, did you even read the stories you refer to there?

Yes, and thank you for sparing my feelings.

David Atkins

10-21-2006, 09:36 PM

The purpose of using a handgun is to kill, unless we are doing one of those 'this is a comic and I (the character) know guns rarely kill anyone in a costume in comics' things. But then I've always assumed a gun could hurt Wonder Woman as well. Otherwise, she doesn't need to deflect the bullets.

Wonder Woman's invulnerability seems effective enough to stop a bullet. She's taken shots from Superman, energy blasts from OMACs, etc. Her deflecting the bullets, as in the case of Black Alice, may be more about directing where the bullets go AFTER impact than actual self preservation.

The best counter-argument to that is that Alice also blocked the Huntress' arrows. ;) But that may have been more instinctual than 'necessary.'

I haven't picked up issue #99 yet. I only barely got #98 today. :( But I loved it. Gail sinks her claws into me ever deeper!

Lester C.

10-21-2006, 10:34 PM

Here what I don't get. The thread for this issue has gotten aclaim reviews in the DC Universe section of CBR by most of the poster there. Here...not so much. What's up with that?

Sharpandpointies

10-22-2006, 05:05 AM

But honestly, Sharpandpointies, I'm not trying to change your mind or convince you of anything. It seems you've decided Zinda is a horrible person and a lousy character, and that's your prerogative.

No worries - much the same for me. If you like Zinda, that's cool. I'm not trying to convince either; I was asked why, and I'm giving some reasons, that's all.

Of course, the fellow who asked why doesn't seem to be much for decent answers to my own questions.

DEWLine

10-22-2006, 08:37 AM

Gonna be fun to see how other DCU writers cope with the latest reiteration that Dinah (and by extension, Ollie and Roy) are public figures as superheroes with real names known to the world.

Dinah as published "tells-not-quite-all" author.

I like the idea

A lot.

Damo

10-22-2006, 10:08 AM

Of course, the fellow who asked why doesn't seem to be much for decent answers to my own questions.

What historical basis did you have for thinking it would go any other way? :rolleyes:

I think Zinda could use a good solid story to develop her. Right now she's a main-ish character, but she's gotten all her development on the sidelines. It's not entirely surprising that some things she does don't quite gel when she's kinda like that Monty Python girl going "You don't like it? But that was my only scene!"

DEWLINE: Oh, I already know how that'll go. Judd'll ignore it. Judd always ignores it. *Shrugs.* You can like it or you can hate it, but you can depend on it.

Dr Ray Palmer

10-22-2006, 11:49 AM

I think Zinda could use a good solid story to develop her. Right now she's a main-ish character, but she's gotten all her development on the sidelines.

I completely agree with you there. I'd love a Zinda-centric story. I always liked the sound of that Zinda story Gail mentioned in a Newsarama interview back in 2004: "She thinks she's the last real Blackhawk, but she may not know the whole story. We hope to get to that soon. She's just a blast to write." I'd love to see that story told! :)

I think there's a ton of possibilities for Zinda storywise. I'd love to know how she spends her time when she's not "on the clock." Does she have friends outside the Birds? Who does she hang out with, and what does she like doing? Does she still find it weird to be in the year 2006, or does she think it's cool and exciting? Does she wish she hadn't been time-displaced?

If Canary is really out of the book (or even if she's not), it would be fun to explore the dynamic between Zinda and Huntress. I still like the way Helena was a little awestruck when she met the Lady Blackhawk. How do they feel about each other now?

Sharpandpointies

10-22-2006, 11:55 AM

What historical basis did you have for thinking it would go any other way? :rolleyes:

None. Truth is, I'm just an optomistic kind of guy.... :)

PatrickG

10-22-2006, 03:33 PM

She obviously didn't know Alice could reflect the bullets back. She says as much when Alice does.

This, to me, means one of the following.

1. She knows Wonder Woman's powers, but somehow didn't know Black Alice could reflect bullets. Well, Wonder Woman can be killed by bullets. So she fired knowing Wonder Woman could be killed by bullets while thinking Alice couldn't reflect the bullets back.

2. She didn't know any of Alice's powers, other than what she saw. All she saw was meta-strength and a lasso. If that's the case, she was taking a horrendous chance with firing at Alice - what if Alice WASN'T invulnerable? Bullets can kill Spider-man just as easily as anyone else - Super-strength does not automatically come with invulnerability.

In either case, the fact that she opened fire and then was surprised when Alice reflected the bullets indicates she wasn't aware of the bullet-reflecting capabilities (which is kind of 'what?' considering Alice already blocked Huntress' arrows, but bullets ARE a little more difficult to block than a crossbow bolt, I expect). Thus, she was taking a huge chance regarding Alice's invulnerability (if she didn't know WW's powers) or she was firing at her knowing full well WW isn't immune to bullets (if she DID know WW's powers, which you say she did).

Perhaps I'm missing something. But this is how I see it, given the evidence that was presented.

Edit: Sorry if that comes off sounding cranky. I'm having a bad morning, and I just realized it's reflecting in my posting. Apologies. :) If I've missed something in the situation, I'd be more than happy to be corrected!

It could say that she doesn't know Wonder Woman's powers. Even now that she's invulnerable post-Crisis, I suspect the average person sees WW deflecting bullets with her bracelets (which she still does) and assumes that's what she does.

Also, Zinda comes from the 40s where WW operated that way.

PatrickG

10-22-2006, 03:35 PM

Magneto_X

10-22-2006, 06:19 PM

Does this mean Manhunter will be the series primary protogonist or will she be Huntress' sidekick (like she was with Dinah)?

Magneto_X

10-22-2006, 06:30 PM

Wonder Woman's invulnerability seems effective enough to stop a bullet. She's taken shots from Superman, energy blasts from OMACs, etc. Her deflecting the bullets, as in the case of Black Alice, may be more about directing where the bullets go AFTER impact than actual self preservation.

WW is immune to blunt force trauma (i.e. punching, kicking, being rammed into heavy objects etc) but not bladed things (i.e. knives, bullets etc).

Anything sharp will hurt her just like any "mortal".

She uses her enchanced bracelets, which are powerful enough to deflect practically *anything*, for attacks that can her hurt her (i.e. energy blasts, bullets, knives, swords etc).

PatrickG

10-22-2006, 07:01 PM

So Batman could beat Wonder Woman but Superman couldn't?

Lester C.

10-22-2006, 07:03 PM

So Batman could beat Wonder Woman but Superman couldn't?
That depends on the creative team. The two occasions where Batman went up agasint Wonder Woman, as penned by Greg Rucka, the Dark Knight had has ass handed to him.

Magneto_X

10-22-2006, 07:16 PM

So Batman could beat Wonder Woman but Superman couldn't?

Bats has a bigger chance at defeating her if he's got prep. Unlike Supes he prefers to just punch things.

God help Supes if she brings her uberarmour and magic sword (that would cut him to ribbons).

PatrickG

10-22-2006, 08:35 PM

Superman's no more vulnerable to magic than anyone else though.

My point was that Batman uses sharp objects and Superman doesn't.

It seems rather peculiar that WW can withstand nuclear level blunt trauma but is still subject to paper cuts.

PatrickG

10-22-2006, 08:35 PM

Especially since cuts ARE blunt force trauma.

David Atkins

10-22-2006, 08:49 PM

WW is immune to blunt force trauma (i.e. punching, kicking, being rammed into heavy objects etc) but not bladed things (i.e. knives, bullets etc).

Anything sharp will hurt her just like any "mortal".

She uses her enchanced bracelets, which are powerful enough to deflect practically *anything*, for attacks that can her hurt her (i.e. energy blasts, bullets, knives, swords etc).

That... doesn't... actually make... any... sense... at all...

Not that I'm saying you're wrong. I've never followed Wonder Woman's series regularly. Just, whoever came up with that originally was on crack and should be slapped repeatedly upside the head.

ChthonicSpirit

10-22-2006, 09:32 PM

Not that I'm saying you're wrong. I've never followed Wonder Woman's series regularly. Just, whoever came up with that originally was on crack and should be slapped repeatedly upside the head.

It's a function of her evolution. Originally, she wasn't invulnerable. They made her progressively more powerful over the years, just like Superman, and her old gimmick of deflecting bullets, though iconic, no longer makes much sense.

The usualy explanation given is that her vulnerability is a feature of physics - a bullet of an arrow exerts force over a very small area, and thus can be more damaging that the same or greater force exerted over a large area.

David Atkins

10-22-2006, 10:13 PM

It's a function of her evolution. Originally, she wasn't invulnerable. They made her progressively more powerful over the years, just like Superman, and her old gimmick of deflecting bullets, though iconic, no longer makes much sense.

The usualy explanation given is that her vulnerability is a feature of physics - a bullet of an arrow exerts force over a very small area, and thus can be more damaging that the same or greater force exerted over a large area.

That still doesn't make sense. She survived a throw-down with a bloodlusted Superman, which included surviving re-entry and impact with the Earth. If she were vulnerable in that fashion, she should have been-- at least-- skinned alive on re-entry and torn to shred by the debris she created upon impact.

Being not as fast as Superman, whom is often shown to catch the bullets in order to protect innocent bystanders, it makes sense that Wonder Woman would deflect the bullets and therebye direct them after impact rather than grab for them.

That's how I would write it, anyway.

Crowley

10-22-2006, 10:29 PM

Anyone care to start a pool on how many issues of JLA Meltzer will be able to control himself before he has Dinah and Roy hook up?

I said that as soon as I heard the new JLA line up... seems inevitable.

I liked this issue though I hate to say I thought the Ordway cover was one of his few misses.

ChthonicSpirit

10-22-2006, 11:03 PM

Being not as fast as Superman, whom is often shown to catch the bullets in order to protect innocent bystanders, it makes sense that Wonder Woman would deflect the bullets and therebye direct them after impact rather than grab for them.

That's how I would write it, anyway.

That would make a good deal more sense.

Damo

10-22-2006, 11:09 PM

See, me? I'd just say that she's as fast as Supes, but more trained in dealing with projectiles. The amazons would have taught her to try and deflect arrows instead of catching them, because you never know if they're poisoned. Same with bullets - they may look normal, but you never know when you're dealing with something spooky. I remember back in Excalibur, these Genoshian bullets harvested out of some poor mutant, guaranteed to chew right through any bullet proof skin they touched. Better to not touch any enemy weapon if you can help it.

Brack360

10-23-2006, 09:48 AM

Does this mean Manhunter will be the series primary protogonist or will she be Huntress' sidekick (like she was with Dinah)?

It was my understanding that Manhunter is only being featured in the next story arc and will not be a long-term member. I'm looking forward to seeing Manhunter in this title but wondering how Oracle will react to her, given her staunch disapproval of Huntress's methods and willingness to kill.

Damo

10-23-2006, 10:31 AM

Tad Sivana

10-23-2006, 10:13 PM

For some of us, Dinah fans though we may be...it's Bab's book.
She had agents before Dinah (though not as reliable) and she'll have agents after.
I'm looking forward to a new direction and new surge of energy in BOP as Babs attempts to fill the gap, just the same way she did with Black Canary after Power Girl blew her off.
Gail knows the truth: Barbara Gordon rules!

Lester C.

10-23-2006, 11:37 PM

...is it really that hard to use a spoiler warning before starting to talk about things from upcoming issues? Please try to be considerate of us folks that try to avoid solicits and the like so we can enjoy the book fresh when it comes out.
If you are going to be apart of a mesage board it's damn near impossible. There is just too much information passed out for you to filter it all. Belive me I tried and it just impossible.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 07:00 AM

does anyone really know whos idea it was to take dinah off this book?
it doesnt make sense coming from anyones point of view as far as im concerned
i mean theres tons of jla-ers that have theyre own books at the same time as theyre in the league.
not to mention wolverine whos in more books than most people can count at the moment.
as far as zinda i like her shes got great legs and tons of personality to boot so whats not to like?
gypsy hasnt been developed much so i would like to see some more of her and all, since i havent seen her in a book since she was a teenager in the detroit era league.
i have to agree that it doesnt make much sense why oracle didnt ask her how she knew so much about the bops and all that other secret information.
i also want to say the reason (besides oogling over huntress) i love this book is all the female bonding, wich never seems to happen in any other comic, especially when theres male bonding a plenty(especially in the x-men)

Lester C.

10-24-2006, 07:13 AM

curefreak

10-24-2006, 07:20 AM

In DC most heroes can't have more than one book unless it is a solo book of a person that happens to be a member of a team. Having one character on two teams is a big no, no. I have been out of the loop out for a while now, but back when Starfire left the Titans for The Outsiders people were throwing fits about this issue.
that makes absolutely no sense at all !
you can be in a team and solo book but not two teams at the same time? who the sam hill thought up that one?

Lester C.

10-24-2006, 07:41 AM

that makes absolutely no sense at all !
you can be in a team and solo book but not two teams at the same time? who the sam hill thought up that one?
I think they want to avoid what goes on at Marvel. Wolverine is like on every team out there plus he has his own solo book.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 07:45 AM

I think they want to avoid what goes on at Marvel. Wolverine is like on every team out there plus he has his own solo book.
two solo books i think.
and while i can understand that thinking
it seems stupid to make canary leave bop when shes in the justice league dont you think?
is there some sort of invisible difference between superman batman and wonder woman all being in the justice league and having there own solo books
and dinah being in the league and being in bop at the same time?

Lester C.

10-24-2006, 07:49 AM

two solo books i think.
and while i can understand that thinking
it seems stupid to make canary leave bop when shes in the justice league dont you think?
is there some sort of invisible difference between superman batman and wonder woman all being in the justice league and having there own solo books
and dinah being in the league and being in bop at the same time?
Batman and Superman may have their own books and are a part of the JLA but the JlA is the only team they belong to. I can't of a single DC character that's one for more than one team consecutively for a long period of time. Black Canary was the closet when she was on the JLA and the JSA, but even that didn't last for very long.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 07:56 AM

Batman and Superman may have their own books and are a part of the JLA but the JlA is the only team they belong to. I can't of a single DC character that's one for more than one team consecutively for a long period of time. Black Canary was the closet when she was on the JLA and the JSA, but even that didn't last for very long.
but whats the difference between being in a solo book and on a team and being on two teams? its not like real life where a person only has 24 hours and has to sleep ya know.

suedenim

10-24-2006, 12:16 PM

She knows that Black Alice has Canary and Huntress on the ropes, not to mention Talia's group. She might have hoped the gun would work to stop Alice but I doubt she expected the bullets to kill.

But it would make an interesting storyline to explore the difference in methods between Zinda and Babs. Zinda has a soldier's background--kill in self-defense, if necessary. Babs obviously doesn't have quite the same take on it.

I'd love to see such a storyline - heck, there are so many angles about Zinda that are interesting! Like she's a bit naive, a bit out of place in the 21st century in some ways... but apparently a hellaciously quick study when it comes to getting up to speed with modern aviation and other technology!

WRT guns, though, I kinda envision in my head that Babs and Zinda "agreed to disagree" - Babs is adamant on the "no killing" business, but I picture Zinda having said something like "Look, missy, I ain't trigger-happy, but if you want to hire me, I've gotta be able to defend myself, and not by throwing beanbags or only trying to shoot bad guys in the hand. If you can't live with that, well, that's OK, I got other places I can be."

curefreak

10-24-2006, 12:29 PM

I'd love to see such a storyline - heck, there are so many angles about Zinda that are interesting! Like she's a bit naive, a bit out of place in the 21st century in some ways... but apparently a hellaciously quick study when it comes to getting up to speed with modern aviation and other technology!

WRT guns, though, I kinda envision in my head that Babs and Zinda "agreed to disagree" - Babs is adamant on the "no killing" business, but I picture Zinda having said something like "Look, missy, I ain't trigger-happy, but if you want to hire me, I've gotta be able to defend myself, and not by throwing beanbags or only trying to shoot bad guys in the hand. If you can't live with that, well, that's OK, I got other places I can be."
i dont know if she would have said that last part, maybe something similar..
im glad you think shes interesting two i just hope that she gets more space and characterization in the future.

suedenim

10-24-2006, 12:45 PM

i dont know if she would have said that last part, maybe something similar..
im glad you think shes interesting two i just hope that she gets more space and characterization in the future.

I'm not sure about the last part either, but I think she'd be fairly uncompromising in her position. But by the same token, she's not particularly trigger-happy or bloodthirsty, or insistent on killing people as a positive virtue the way, say, a Punisher or Wolverine type (the usual counterpoint in the cliche version of this conflict) might be. I see her with a more pragmatic attitude, like "This isn't a game for them, and shouldn't be for us either."

curefreak

10-24-2006, 12:48 PM

I'm not sure about the last part either, but I think she'd be fairly uncompromising in her position. But by the same token, she's not particularly trigger-happy or bloodthirsty, or insistent on killing people as a positive virtue the way, say, a Punisher or Wolverine type (the usual counterpoint in the cliche version of this conflict) might be. I see her with a more pragmatic attitude, like "This isn't a game for them, and shouldn't be for us either."
you're right, but i dont think babs has the right to say "dont use guns" when shes not out there in the field risking her neck.
unless she wants to give her a utility belt;)

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 04:51 PM

I picture Zinda having said something like "Look, missy, I ain't trigger-happy, but if you want to hire me, I've gotta be able to defend myself, and not by throwing beanbags or only trying to shoot bad guys in the hand. If you can't live with that, well, that's OK, I got other places I can be."

I would love for Zinda to say just that, to see how Babs would take it.

Of course, knowing Babs, she'd be more likely to just try and reprogram Zinda not to want guns, but still, I'd be interested to see if she could generate an honest response.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 04:52 PM

I would love for Zinda to say just that, to see how Babs would take it.

Of course, knowing Babs, she'd be more likely to just try and reprogram Zinda not to want guns, but still, I'd be interested to see if she could generate an honest response.
what do you mean by "reprogram" her , i mean shes an old fashioned kind of gal but she doesnt seem the type to mess around with fancy gadgets when her neck is on the line.

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 04:55 PM

what do you mean by "reprogram" her , i mean shes an old fashioned kind of gal but she doesnt seem the type to mess around with fancy gadgets when her neck is on the line.

That was pretty much what Oracle tried to do to Huntress - Oracle never offered to discuss the question of methods with her, but she tried to organize Huntress's life so that she would want to stop being violent. Of course, whether she was inordinantly violent in the first place was a matter for debate, but that debate never took place.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 05:13 PM

That was pretty much what Oracle tried to do to Huntress - Oracle never offered to discuss the question of methods with her, but she tried to organize Huntress's life so that she would want to stop being violent. Of course, whether she was inordinantly violent in the first place was a matter for debate, but that debate never took place.
i guess a lot of people see that as manipulative, but if a friend you had tried to stop you from going down the wrong path or doing something self destructive, wouldnt you be glad that that person at least cares about you enough to get you to change whatever youre doing?
i have a feeling that im not gonna win this one but i just dont see babs being manipulative like everyone else on here seems to.

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 05:21 PM

i guess a lot of people see that as manipulative, but if a friend you had tried to stop you from going down the wrong path or doing something self destructive, wouldnt you be glad that that person at least cares about you enough to get you to change whatever youre doing?

No.

Because like I said, the ideas of Huntress as misled or self-destructive were never dealt with. All you have is Oracle unilaterally deciding that Huntress' life must change, a decision which was made without any attempt to talk to her or understand what problems - if any at all - Huntress actually had.

Just because you are qualified to do something doesn't mean it is your right to do it.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 05:26 PM

No.

Because like I said, the ideas of Huntress as misled or self-destructive were never dealt with. All you have is Oracle unilaterally deciding that Huntress' life must change, a decision which was made without any attempt to talk to her or understand what problems - if any at all - Huntress actually had.

Just because you are qualified to do something doesn't mean it is your right to do it.
so basically people would have been ok with this if babs had said something about it to her first?
hmmm

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 05:31 PM

so basically people would have been ok with this if babs had said something about it to her first?
hmmm

When Dinah signed up to Babs' "Superheroine repair program", she knew what she was doing. She and Babs had both vocalized the fact that she (dinah) was down in the dumps, and was hoping that Babs could give her new purpose.

Not so with Huntress. So yeah, the attempt to be honest AT LEAST would have helped Oracle's cause greatly.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 05:34 PM

When Dinah signed up to Babs' "Superheroine repair program", she knew what she was doing. She and Babs had both vocalized the fact that she (dinah) was down in the dumps, and was hoping that Babs could give her new purpose.

Not so with Huntress. So yeah, the attempt to be honest AT LEAST would have helped Oracle's cause greatly.
this is the first time im hearing about this, was this during chuck dixons run?

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 05:36 PM

this is the first time im hearing about this, was this during chuck dixons run?

Dinah? Yeah, I think it was Dixon. When she became Oracle's agent, it was right after Green Arrow's death, and she was drifting.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 05:39 PM

Dinah? Yeah, I think it was Dixon. When she became Oracle's agent, it was right after Green Arrow's death, and she was drifting.
i knew i was missing out on not reading his run:( i only started reading the book cause i have a thing for the huntress (if it wasnt completly obvious)

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 05:45 PM

i knew i was missing out on not reading his run:( i only started reading the book cause i have a thing for the huntress (if it wasnt completly obvious)

I don't know if the stories in question have been traded, but I think you can find them on Scans Daily if you hunt around under the 'Birds of Prey' tag.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 05:48 PM

I don't know if the stories in question have been traded, but I think you can find them on Scans Daily if you hunt around under the 'Birds of Prey' tag.
not to sound like a complete noob but what is scans daily?

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 05:55 PM

not to sound like a complete noob but what is scans daily?

A comics-oriented livejournal community.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/

curefreak

10-24-2006, 06:11 PM

A comics-oriented livejournal community.

http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/
i just read secret files and origins(bop of course) how is this thing legal? or is it not..

ChthonicSpirit

10-24-2006, 06:19 PM

how is this thing legal? or is it not..

They have a rule about not posting full issues. Beyond that, I think the legality just isn't questioned that much. People like Warren Ellis and our own Mrs. Gail Simone post there regularly, so I think it's safe to say that people from the comics industry don't object.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 06:22 PM

They have a rule about not posting full issues. Beyond that, I think the legality just isn't question that much. People like Warren Ellis and our own Mrs. Gail Simone post there regularly, so I think it's safe to say that people from the comics industry don't object.man gail is everywhere, where does she find the time for everything else?

Cam63

10-24-2006, 06:27 PM

She loves what she does.

Sharpandpointies

10-24-2006, 07:00 PM

WRT guns, though, I kinda envision in my head that Babs and Zinda "agreed to disagree" - Babs is adamant on the "no killing" business, but I picture Zinda having said something like "Look, missy, I ain't trigger-happy, but if you want to hire me, I've gotta be able to defend myself, and not by throwing beanbags or only trying to shoot bad guys in the hand. If you can't live with that, well, that's OK, I got other places I can be."

At which point I'd love to see Babs say "I see your point. Okay, look. Keep the guns, and stay in the plane. We have enough worries about police interference, breaking laws and so forth without having to be worried about someone who has to use lethal force to defend themselves against metas. Use the guns if someone busts into the plane and tries to kill you."

If you have a code against killing, sending someone out whose only recourse to defend themselves and their teammates is a gun (see: Josh and the Silk Brothers incident) is a bad idea.

Dinah and Huntress can take care of themselves without using guns. Zinda can't. She ought not be in the field if they're concerned about using lethal force.

Plus, it's just not that smart to have the pilot heading out on the mission as well.

[Dinah] "Oracle, get us out of here! Call for backup!"

[Babs] "All right, I'll signal Zinda to bring in the Birdcopter..."

[Dinah] "Well, that's a problem. She came with us, got struck a glancing blow by a metahuman, and now she's in a coma. We don't have someone to fly us out anymore."

[Oracle] "....."

curefreak

10-24-2006, 07:02 PM

At which point I'd love to see Babs say "I see your point. Okay, look. Keep the guns, and stay in the plane. We have enough worries about police interference, breaking laws and so forth without having to be worried about someone who has to use lethal force to defend themselves against metas. Use the guns if someone busts into the plane and tries to kill you."

If you have a code against killing, sending someone out whose only recourse to defend themselves and their teammates is a gun (see: Josh and the Silk Brothers incident) is a bad idea.

Dinah and Huntress can take care of themselves without using guns. Zinda can't. She ought not be in the field if they're concerned about using lethal force.

Plus, it's just not that smart to have the pilot heading out on the mission as well.

[Dinah] "Oracle, get us out of here! Call for backup!"

[Babs] "All right, I'll signal Zinda to bring in the Birdcopter..."

[Dinah] "Well, that's a problem. She came with us, got struck a glancing blow by a metahuman, and now she's in a coma. We don't have someone to fly us out anymore."

[Oracle] "....."Strangely enough i could see that happening.

Sharpandpointies

10-24-2006, 07:22 PM

Strangely enough i could see that happening.

Exactly. It's not a good idea for Zinda to be on a mission.

1. She's the pilot.
2. She can only defend herself with lethal force.
3. She's sadly vulnerable to injury, whereas Dinah and Huntress at least have tons of experience dealing with metas.

It's like when Josh was sent in to take control of a ship-full of people in charge of drug smuggling. Sure, they might have been sailors, but what if they knew, were in on the whole thing, and were armed?

Then it would have been shotgun Josh against a boatful of armed killers. This has two results:

1. Dinah has put Josh in a situation where he gets killed.
2. Dinah has put Josh in a situation where he has to kill.

Fortunately, the sailors weren't an issue. Fortunately.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 07:30 PM

Exactly. It's not a good idea for Zinda to be on a mission.

1. She's the pilot.
2. She can only defend herself with lethal force.
3. She's sadly vulnerable to injury, whereas Dinah and Huntress at least have tons of experience dealing with metas.

It's like when Josh was sent in to take control of a ship-full of people in charge of drug smuggling. Sure, they might have been sailors, but what if they knew, were in on the whole thing, and were armed?

Then it would have been shotgun Josh against a boatful of armed killers. This has two results:

1. Dinah has put Josh in a situation where he gets killed.
2. Dinah has put Josh in a situation where he has to kill.

Fortunately, the sailors weren't an issue. Fortunately.
Hmm yeah, but that would relegate her to a lot less pages, and i love having Zilda around on the missions at all, i mean she seems perfectly capable of handeling herself, just not in the way Babs would approve of neccarily(maybe she looked the other way for just that one incident.)

AllisterH

10-24-2006, 08:11 PM

curefreak

10-24-2006, 08:15 PM

Yeah, but I can't see Barbara actually having that talk about lethality.

You know, I wonder what Lady Blackhawk thinks of the no-killing policy espoused by the heroes of today. There's a sense that you're not a hero if you killed someone but this is freaking Lady Blackhawk.

She probably has a wider bodycount that many Batvillains and I doubt she would take any gruff from even say Sentinel or Wildcat about the non-killing policy.
I think that's what i like about her the most is all these contradictions that she has, where on one hand, she is sort of old fashioned and ladylike in some ways, shes also a no- nonsense take no sh** woman when she has to be.
and did i mention shes got a killer pair of legs?

AllisterH

10-24-2006, 08:42 PM

I think that's what i like about her the most is all these contradictions that she has, where on one hand, she is sort of old fashioned and ladylike in some ways, shes also a no- nonsense take no sh** woman when she has to be.
and did i mention shes got a killer pair of legs?

More importantly, Barbara can't lecture her a la say Manhunter.

If a new hero comes around and starts killing, we can have say Wildcat or Garrick come in and "lecture" the hero. That doesn't work with Lady Blackhawk who is one of the few characters in the DCU who could insult the elder JSA and get away with it.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 09:02 PM

More importantly, Barbara can't lecture her a la say Manhunter.

If a new hero comes around and starts killing, we can have say Wildcat or Garrick come in and "lecture" the hero. That doesn't work with Lady Blackhawk who is one of the few characters in the DCU who could insult the elder JSA and get away with it.
I think Babs is smart enough not to "lecture" her, and i think Zinda is enough of a professional to not get upset or to take it personal.

Corrina

10-24-2006, 09:07 PM

It just occured to me that it would be great fun to see a Captain America/Lady Blackhawk crossover.

Or just a scene where they sit in a retro diner and have coffee.

Steve: Kids today.

Zinda: Lordy, can you believe they get angry I pulled at gun? At someone trying to kill me? What is the world coming to? All this nonsense about guns and violence and desensitization and they get mad at me for wanting to defend myself?

Steve :shakes head: And the music...

Zinda: Where'n the hell has Hank Williams gone....

Steve hits the jukebox.

"Are you lonesome tonight...."

Steve: Would you care to dance?

Zinda: Love to, darlin'.

curefreak

10-24-2006, 09:14 PM

suedenim

10-24-2006, 09:39 PM

It just occured to me that it would be great fun to see a Captain America/Lady Blackhawk crossover.

I had just such an idea in another forum, where we had this "inter-company draft/storytelling" thing that's harder to explain than it is to just link to:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=217086&page=2

I think they'd hit it off pretty well. :)

aukevin

10-31-2006, 02:06 PM

I'm a bit late to this issue, but I just got done reading this one. Man, I hate that Black Canary is leaving, she is so cool and it is kinda weird that she's going to be in the JLA. I've been with this title since issue #1, so it's gonna be a big change. I hope Huntress isn't the one to leave in #100, because another one that I like and I was real happy when she became a regular on the team. I guess of the other two, Gypsy and Zinda, I hope it is Zinda that's gone. Never cared too much for her, don't know why though.

As for the new BOP, the cover for #100 suggest that it could be Barda, Bulleteer, Supergirl, Power Girl, Hawkgirl, Catwoman, Manhunter, Speedy, Grace, and two girls that I don't recognize or can't place right now. Unfortunately the solictations for #101 seem to spoil the new bird. Of the ones on the cover, I think it would be cool to have Speedy on the team just because of her youth and the excitement she could bring, along with her personal issues. I liked having her on Teen Titans, but it doesn't look like she's on the post-52 lineup. Bulleteer would be cool if her costume wasn't so goofy IMO.

Anyway, looking forward to the next chapter of BOP.