Maria Hill: Love Her or Hate Her?

[Haunt]

Are you a fan of S.H.I.E.L.D's new temporary director or do you wish a house would drop on her? for Hill's part, i can admit that she's never boring and does her job efficiently. and she's from Chicago (which explains her being good at defense).



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Mariahill.PNG

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Sidenote: so does anyone else think that Maria Hill might be the new Iron "Man" and Stark might be the head of SHIELD? i'm going by the anti-supers comment that the new Iron Man made in the preview for Mighty Avengers.

[Wind-Breaker]

Are you a fan of S.H.I.E.L.D's new temporary director or do you wish a house would drop on her? for Hill's part, i can admit that she's never boring and does her job efficiently. and she's from Chicago (which explains her being good at defense).



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Mariahill.PNG

---------
Sidenote: so does anyone else think that Maria Hill might be the new Iron "Man" and Stark might be the head of SHIELD? i'm going by the anti-supers comment that the new Iron Man made in the preview for Mighty Avengers.

Maria Hill the new Iron Man? Awsome idea! All though, I really do enjoy her current position at SHEILD. Where else can you find a short, unimposing woman bossing around a bunch of superheroes? But yeah I'm a Maria Hill fan, she may be mostly viewed as a villain, but all her actions have reason to them, and she can get the job done no matter who's in her way.

[Haunt]

Maria Hill the new Iron Man? Awsome idea! All though, I really do enjoy her current position at SHEILD. Where else can you find a short, unimposing woman bossing around a bunch of superheroes? But yeah I'm a Maria Hill fan, she may be mostly viewed as a villain, but all her actions have reason to them, and she can get the job done no matter who's in her way.


plus, she's willing to drop a nuke or two; when push comes to shove.

[Wind-Breaker]

plus, she's willing to drop a nuke or two; when push comes to shove.

Yep, people keep refrencing that as a strike against her, but killing innocent people isn't actually a new concept to SHEILD. Fury was far from being a saint. Hill is bad ass, and I hope that Marvel has her around for a long time.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I like Hill. Her youth seems odd to me but other than that she's good.
And I love Nick Fury.

[Haunt]

I like Hill. Her youth seems odd to me but other than that she's good.
And I love Nick Fury.


well we don't really know her exact age. she could just look young. if i were to guess, i'd say that she's in her early 30s. she looks like an evil parakeet in this picture...

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page2&issue=56605743384%204

[Jake V]

I think she's a total bitch, but a very entertaining one.

[The Shadow]

I think she's a total bitch, but a very entertaining one.
What Jake said.

I think it's great to have a female in such a powerful role and an entertaining one at that. I hope she has the staying power of Sharon Carter in the SHIELD ranks.

[Affinity]

I like her a LOT. I mostly feel bad for her because all this horrible stuff is happening under her run and she's got to deal with it without being "Hmm, what would Nick do?"

She's a very fun character.

[Cayman]

I like her. She's like Gyrich but cool.

[Scott Taylor]

She's got an advantage that practically none of the other characters around her have in that she's new. They aren't retconning her or going against soe long-established continuity. So in that sense, I find that I like her. But also, she seems to be just a professional who is doing her job in a non-emotional way. There is not much I can blame her for, after all she didn't clone Thor and sick him on the heroes.

[Hiromi]

I love to hate her, which makes her a well writen character IMO, keep her, and when Fury comes back make her his Number 2,

[lordlad]

Everybody's hate her alright.....but isn't that what Bendis's intention is ??

[Karthak]

Shoot her. That is my opinion. She is a smear on the wall compared to Fury.

[geordiesteve]

This may sound silly but, I've not seen her DO anything. I admit freely, I don't read New Avengers anymore, so maybe I'm missing a trick, dropped it at 22, but you can point at Fury and say, he did this, this this, Secret War, etc. What has she done??

I can't gage the character as so far all she's done is lecture Cap in Civil War (has she just heard of him or something?) which is never a good idea. I mean if she had been around in the background in other Shield stories and we'd heard of her before now, I could cope with her being in charge. Like Agent Clay, I believe it is, I've seen and heard mentioned a few times. But its just pop, here she is, in charge. Yes, it can make it interesting to deal with an unknown, but I want to see her DO something.

Given that I don't have the budget to keep buying books to wait and see if that happens, and don't get that many books where she might appear, can anyone else tell me what's she been up to?

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I adore her, especially the way she's portrayed in CW - hard, driven, intelligent, willing to take risks, and ready to stand behind her decisions. I'd like it if she became Iron 'Man' - for one thing, it'd be another book for me to read, and for another, she really deserves to get her own shot at having her story told, without being continually compared to the rose-coloured-glasses illusion of Nick Fury (who, realistically, was worse than Hill), or being used as a convenient antagonist for the New Avengers.

[Sparda]

I think she's a total bitch, but a very entertaining one.
Exactly how I feel about her. She can be a bitch but gotta have her in shield in position to bitch about her and cheer the hero's who rebel.

[mattbib]

I like her AND hate her. I think that's the whole appeal of the character. I think she actually has some integrity but is also trying to hard to show up the heroes sometimes.

Anyway the Stark/Hill role reversal would be interesting.

[Bobster777]

I don't think she is an effective leader. The way she has handled things shows how inept she is. I think Nick, in her position, would have handled the situation better. However, I do feel she makes things more interesting and I like having her around.

[Sgt. Preston]

She's entertaining, but I'd rather see Fury in charge.

[NickThompson]

I like her in a disliking way. Wish she was developed a bit more though.

[Haunt]

it's weird that the majority of posts so far have been along the lines of "i want her around even though she's a female dog," yet the poll results skew towards her being capped by the Punisher. weird. maybe the posters who want her dead, don't really have much to say about her. hmm.

This may sound silly but, I've not seen her DO anything. I admit freely, I don't read New Avengers anymore, so maybe I'm missing a trick, dropped it at 22, but you can point at Fury and say, he did this, this this, Secret War, etc. What has she done??

she might not seem like she's doing anything because she's SHIELD Director; as opposed to a field agent. but, so far, she's disobeyed an order to nuke Genosha (w/ the Avengers present on the island), operated through a Nick Fury LMD (it's how she caught Spider-woman betraying SHIELD), and taken a few bullets to the chest (during an attack on the Helicarrier by Hydra). i guess i'm not sure what qualifies as "doing nothing." *shrugs*


btw, Nick Fury used to lecture marvel heroes, as well. he was just as dirty a player as Maria. she just doesn't get the benefit of the doubt since she didn't fight during WWII (imo).

[curefreak]

personally i think shes a hard headed b*tch and shes too stubborn to go about things the right way (attacking cap for no reason) i have a feeling that some people (bendis) where afraid that nick was getting too soft.

[Mia]

I adore her, especially the way she's portrayed in CW - hard, driven, intelligent, willing to take risks, and ready to stand behind her decisions.


Completely agree. I also like the way that she's her own woman, and isn't in thrall of superheroes. From what I have read she seems to view them as nothing but 'cowboys' and glory hounds who interfere with her doing her job.

We just don't have enough ballsy women in comic books. By the way I wouldn't exactly use the word 'fun' in describing her. But she is an enjoyable character.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I think she's an evil bitch, and not the kind I like.

She indirectly fired the first shot in Civil War when she tried to have Cap arrested for a law that wasn't even a law yet. That's to much of an evil bitch for my taste.

But I don't wish for her death. She does have some potential. Just give Wolverine and Invisible Woman a few rounds with her and I'd be happy.

[Locue]

Sorry, I love to hate her, but I'd love to see Frank gun her down even more.

[curefreak]

wot about all the weird conspiracies going on in new avengers with shield and theyre presence in the savage land?
was that ever figured out or was that swept under the rug just like the escapees from the raft plot?

[XPac]

wot about all the weird conspiracies going on in new avengers with shield and theyre presence in the savage land?
was that ever figured out or was that swept under the rug just like the escapees from the raft plot?

According the Bendis, that stuff wasn't swept under the rug... it's just that Civil War happened.

That's the downside with company wide cross over... they can sort of disrupt the flow of things in ongoing books (though Civil War does actually blend into the whole SHIELD corruption story arc reasonably well).

[curefreak]

According the Bendis, that stuff wasn't swept under the rug... it's just that Civil War happened.

That's the downside with company wide cross over... they can sort of disrupt the flow of things in ongoing books (though Civil War does actually blend into the whole SHIELD corruption story arc reasonably well).
i dont think he can blame civil war when he could have finished it but choose to go into the collective arc next.
and did they ever capture all the escapees from the raft?

[Bobster777]

According the Bendis, that stuff wasn't swept under the rug... it's just that Civil War happened.

That's the downside with company wide cross over... they can sort of disrupt the flow of things in ongoing books (though Civil War does actually blend into the whole SHIELD corruption story arc reasonably well).
I can't wait till they go back to this story. I think it was NA 10. The Illuminati had questioned Tony about the goings on in the Savage Land and he said something like not to worry about it. I wonder what he has to do with it?

[Niro]

yea get rid of her, i hate her attitude.

[shaunyc56]

Absofinglutley hate her, she is more annoyingly c-wordish than Emma Frost, that being exactly why she has to stay around, I hate everyone being so damn nice all the time. (P.S. I like Emma for the same reason)

[Bobster777]

Absofinglutley hate her, she is more annoyingly c-wordish than Emma Frost, that being exactly why she has to stay around, I hate everyone being so damn nice all the time. (P.S. I like Emma for the same reason)
Yeah, exactly. All the characters can't be dogooders. Gotta have that bad seed.

[Zero Hunter]

I want to see the entire SHIELD organization blown off the face of the Marvel universe, so I pretty much have to hate her just on principle.

SHIELD in and of it self has just become WAY to much of a crutch and go to plot device for some writers.

[Haunt]

I want to see the entire SHIELD organization blown off the face of the Marvel universe, so I pretty much have to hate her just on principle.

SHIELD in and of it self has just become WAY to much of a crutch and go to plot device for some writers.


how so? :)

[curefreak]

i dont know how someone who has obvious issues with superheroes would be promoted to a head of an agency that deals with them all the time.

[Haunt]

i dont know how someone who has obvious issues with superheroes would be promoted to a head of an agency that deals with them all the time.

*cough*Henry Peter Gyrich*cough*CSA*cough*


the thing is, i think it's deeper than that. it's pure speculation on my part but i think Maria is jealous of superfolk. she's been a dedicated SHIELD agent for awhile now. i'm sure it's dawned on her that there is no reward for saving lives if you're part of a spy agency. when was the last time you saw a parade being thrown for S.H.I.E.L.D? the Avengers get them all the time. the Fantastic Four are considered celebrities. meanwhile, Maria's stuck doing black ops work in Madripoor. i'm sure there's an element of resentment there. she also might want to be dealt into the game; given a feeling of belonging among the superfolk. so far, she's been treated fairly shabbily by the superhero crowd. some of Iron Man's first words to her were, "We weren't asking for permission."

[curefreak]

*cough*Henry Peter Gyrich*cough*CSA*cough*
hmmm point so you think maybe she has an agenda ? and noone ever answered me on my raft question from earlier its sort of been bugging me.

[Haunt]

hmmm point so you think maybe she has an agenda ?

i think she's always wanted to be a superhero. i think she joined SHIELD to be part of something bigger but still didn't get the acceptance or power that she was after (just look at how connected Fury was among the heroes). i think she realizes now that they won't accept her like they did Nick, so she's doing the next best thing; making the heroes a part of her "crowd." it's the classic nerd-revenge scenario; "i'll grow up to be rich and powerful. then those who rejected me will have to call me boss." i think it will all blow over when she gets superpowers of her own. or a certain armor.

and noone ever answered me on my raft question from earlier its sort of been bugging me.

what raft question? i probably won't know the answer since i don't like Bendis.

[curefreak]

i think she's always wanted to be a superhero. i think she joined SHIELD to be part of something bigger but still didn't get the acceptance or power that she was after (just look at how connected Fury was among the heroes). i think she realizes now that they won't accept her like they did Nick, so she's doing the next best thing; making the heroes a part of her "crowd." it's the classic nerd-revenge scenario; "i'll grow up to be rich and powerful. then those who rejected me will have to call me boss." i think it will all blow over when she gets superpowers of her own. or a certain armor.



what raft question? i probably won't know the answer since i don't like Bendis.
i hate bendis too but there first arc/mission was too find all of the raft escapees but they didnt get all of them and i was quickly forgotten about it seems.
as for maria hill i dont know if i agree with youre assertion she could just be power hungry
and the only people more powerfull than her are superheros and maybe the president
and she doesnt like that they wont just bend over for her.
nick fury comparisons or not he hasnt always been a nice guy, but you never felt like he had a personal vendetta against anyone, he would just do what he thought was right for the american people in my opinion.
he was a professional
wich maria hill is not so she has to get her power by being a bully and a bitch.

[Haunt]

i hate bendis too but there first arc/mission was too find all of the raft escapees but they didnt get all of them and i was quickly forgotten about it seems.
as for maria hill i dont know if i agree with youre assertion she could just be power hungry
and the only people more powerfull than her are superheros and maybe the president
and she doesnt like that they wont just bend over for her.
nick fury comparisons or not he hasnt always been a nice guy, but you never felt like he had a personal vendetta against anyone, he would just do what he thought was right for the american people in my opinion.
he was a professional
wich maria hill is not so she has to get her power by being a bully and a bitch.

then why did she disobey the President's order to nuke Genosha?

[curefreak]

then why did she disobey the President's order to nuke Genosha?
she had a momentary conscience? either that or shes all talk and no action.

[DEWLine]

Keep her.

She's been dropped right into the soup, I suspect that she wasn't expecting to have the job's she's got for at least a decade, and now she's got to sink or swim on her own merits.

I want to see her learn to swim.

[lightning]

I say keep her. While so far her entire thing is "in charge of SHIELD and mistrustful of heroes", as written, she does a credible job of being that character you just absolutely hate, yet isn't always wrong (sort of like Emma Frost). And while she might be a huge bitch, she's not entirely ineffective - I thought how she got the House of M info out of Spider-man was inspired and ruthless. Although if she does stick around long-term, it'd be good if her character is developed a bit more, because right now, we don't have a lot to go on, and the "government representative who is mistrustful of heroes" schtick will eventually get old.

[estee]

Kinda late here...

Like Dum Dum said, "Nick Fury wouldn't have allowed things to get so bad."

She isn't up to the task.

[curefreak]

Kinda late here...

Like Dum Dum said, "Nick Fury wouldn't have allowed things to get so bad."

She isn't up to the task.
yeah say what you will about ole nic but he knew how to play the game and get things done in his own curmudgeonly way.

[Haunt]

Kinda late here...

Like Dum Dum said, "Nick Fury wouldn't have allowed things to get so bad."

She isn't up to the task.


or maybe Nick's a wuss. maybe the heroes would have walked all over him. or maybe it would have been an even bigger cluster****, considering how Secret War turned out. maybe it's Nick who is league with the Green Goblin, at the moment.

[Deus ex Chris]

I like her. She's a hardcore bitch and a pain in the ass, and it makes for interesting stories. They've also done a good job of developing her along the way. It's been little-by-little but still...

[DMike]

The poll needs a "love to hate her" option.

[Che]

Let there be Punisher vs SHIELD

[nuclearman]

I would love to see the punisher shoot her.... Hot Shots 2 style... chicken to the chest!!

[Zero Hunter]

how so? :)

It just seems like guys use SHIELD in almost every other story they write. To me that is using them to much. SHIELD used to be cool because thye were not seen all the time. They would appear here and there, but now it seems like for the last 4 or 5 years you can't go more than a few issues of alot of books without SHIELD showing up. With Civil War I can understand it, but some writers just seem to have to have SHIELD in everything they write. It gets pretty boring. Especilly since they have been slowly turning the mainstream Marvel SHIELD into a mirror of the Ultimates versions of SHIELD.

[Haunt]

It just seems like guys use SHIELD in almost every other story they write. To me that is using them to much. SHIELD used to be cool because thye were not seen all the time. They would appear here and there, but now it seems like for the last 4 or 5 years you can't go more than a few issues of alot of books without SHIELD showing up. With Civil War I can understand it, but some writers just seem to have to have SHIELD in everything they write. It gets pretty boring. Especilly since they have been slowly turning the mainstream Marvel SHIELD into a mirror of the Ultimates versions of SHIELD.

but this is basically a SHIELD crossover. that's why they are being used. it'd be like me complaining about there being too many prime sentinels during Operation Zero Tolerance. :confused:

[Zero Hunter]

but this is basically a SHIELD crossover. that's why they are being used. it'd be like me complaining about there being too many prime sentinels during Operation Zero Tolerance. :confused:

Like I said I understand it with Civil War. The problem is that they have been so overeposed in the 3 or so years leading up to CW that now I am just sick to death of seeing them in any book. That is why I would like to see the whole thing destroyed at the end of CW and them put on the back burner for a few years.

[HeroxMatt2.0]

I really like Maria Hill, and am writing a one-shot fan fiction for her. Basically, my writing of her personality is that she's head strong, confident but with the talent to back it up, and she basically doesn't take shit from anyone. At the same time, she's also opened up a little to the superhero community thanks to Tony Stark, and is a lot more welcoming towards them. But she's still badass and thinks of herself highly. Do you reckon I've hit the mark with her character?

[PaxHouse]

...I'll admit that I really dispised her during the CIVIL WAR, but SECRET INVASION has myself seeing more of her 'noble' side and the recent Issues of SIEGE & INVINCIBLE IRON MAN shown more of her character that proved that she's worth the effort.... :biggrin:

[vitruvian]

I think she's morally suspect and not sufficiently aware of how criminal some of her past acts (especially when following illegal orders) really were, but for that very reason she's potentially a fun character to keep around and play with. Like I said in another thread, let Ka-zar and Shanna nab her from her Avengers liaison office and put her on trial in the Savage Land for the deaths of those natives - trial by dinosaur! C'mon, you know it'd be cool to see her going up against velociraptors with nothing but a knife and a fur bikini. Maybe they could get Cho as guest artist.

[solarstorm]

I've been warming up to her since Stark became SHIELD director and she started opening up more.

Now, I could actually see her as a decent girlfriend for Stark. Though the comics seem to want to push the whole movie-verse Stark/Pepper thing.

[Mark_S]

I just see her as a female version of Gyrich.

Mark_S

[celticguy]

i think she was intended to be short term character so they let her go nuts. Now that they have more use for her they have all her baggage to carry with her.

[mikekerr3]

I've been warming up to her since Stark became SHIELD director and she started opening up more.

Now, I could actually see her as a decent girlfriend for Stark. Though the comics seem to want to push the whole movie-verse Stark/Pepper thing.

Stark does like to sleep with murderers and villians so she's a likely girlfriend

[coveredinbees]

I will let him shoot her multiple times.

[Will.S]

She's a character I loved to hate initially but at this point she's toned down the "RAGING BITCH!" routine and has mellowed out a lot.

[seekquaze]

i dont know how someone who has obvious issues with superheroes would be promoted to a head of an agency that deals with them all the time.

Didn't the Skrulls pretty much admit they put her in charge of SHIELD because they thought she would be easier to deal with?

[Endless Lies]

I lover her body, hate her personality

[Jason Abbadon]

This may sound silly but, I've not seen her DO anything. I admit freely, I don't read New Avengers anymore, so maybe I'm missing a trick, dropped it at 22, but you can point at Fury and say, he did this, this this, Secret War, etc. What has she done??

er....well...
Recently, she went toe-to-toe with The Controller and managed to pull off one of his Slave Disks via pure willpower- something only ever managed by Captain Marvel. She got Tony's super-memory drive, recruited the Black widow and teamed up with Pepper to escape from HAMMER, get the drive to Tony and reboot his brain.
Then she fought the Ghost.

Then she saved Thor's life in seige #2- risking certain death to fire rockets from the back of a bouncing pickup truck (one nailed Osborn nicely!).

When the fecal matter hit the oscillating rotor and Tony was on the run, she stood by him when everyone else (except Pepper) was still talking trash or at minimum, not helping.

Best of all- not only does she NOT sit around thinking "what would Nick Fury do?", she deals with everyone equally- none of this starry eyed Captain America worship that other chracters suffer from!

She kicks ass.

[Jason Abbadon]

Kinda late here...

Like Dum Dum said, "Nick Fury wouldn't have allowed things to get so bad."

She isn't up to the task.
Considering that was a Skrull talking and Nick never knew about them, the point kinda loses it's merit.:wink:

[dupersuper]

I've only seen her in Civil War...but she certainly made a bad impression on me there.

Hill "So, you'll keep all your street level friends in line, right?"
Cap "In line with what? This thing isn't even a law yet. Even if it does pass, I don't know all the urban crimefighters, and I'm uncomfortable going after those who are my friends."
Hill "Traitor!! Kill him!!"
Cap *behind his shield* "What the Hell, lady! I'm a WW2 vet and the Avengers leader...I deserve a little better than this highly illegal execution! Why are you soldiers listening to her??"

[Jason Abbadon]

Dont be so critical: given enough time and circumstances, everyone orders the execution of a WWII vet.
It just kinda works out that way.

[AugustEngine]

I like her. Supers need someone around who isn't impressed or intimidated by them.

[mikekerr3]

I like her. Supers need someone around who isn't impressed or intimidated by them.

Yes mass-murdering sociopaths are hard to intimidate

[Frisky Dingo]

I really like Maria Hill. But it's understandable if you don't like her because your only exposure to her was around "Civil War". She was not written to be likable around that time period. However, Fraction has really redeemed the character in the pages of "Invincible Iron Man". She's more human there and you get to see different sides of her personality.

[Rimmer]

er....well...
Recently, she went toe-to-toe with The Controller and managed to pull off one of his Slave Disks via pure willpower- something only ever managed by Captain Marvel. She got Tony's super-memory drive, recruited the Black widow and teamed up with Pepper to escape from HAMMER, get the drive to Tony and reboot his brain.
Then she fought the Ghost.

Then she saved Thor's life in seige #2- risking certain death to fire rockets from the back of a bouncing pickup truck (one nailed Osborn nicely!).

When the fecal matter hit the oscillating rotor and Tony was on the run, she stood by him when everyone else (except Pepper) was still talking trash or at minimum, not helping.

Best of all- not only does she NOT sit around thinking "what would Nick Fury do?", she deals with everyone equally- none of this starry eyed Captain America worship that other chracters suffer from!

She kicks ass.

I totally agree with this. Love her as a character.

Personally, I see a LOT of similarities between her and Victoria Hand, who some just LOVE. It seems people can look past her discrepancies but not past Maria's which I don't get.

* Both did what they thought was 'right' at the time, working for (arguably) bad situations.
* Both allowed certain things to happen that in hindsight were not the best (for Hand, essentially kidnapping Stark and Potts, allowing Bullseye to run around and kill people, hiding the insanity of Osborne from the public eye, etc...), for Hill, the items in Savage Land and the first attempt at capturing Steve Rogers would top the list.
* Both are strong willed characters.
* Both initially came across as very cold, but have warmed up recently, as their backstories have been flushed out a little.
* Both can be heroic without having super powers (Hand's standing up to Moleule Man, Hill's saving Stark, and arguably saving Thor in Siege)

To me, it's about character development. With Maria, she was writen a certain way by Millar and Bendis, and then she really developed as a character by Fraction, made more human, she has faults, she's aware of them, she's overcoming them, very driven, etc... Love her as a character.

If only Daisy Johnson wasn't her twin, she'd seem more unique from an aesthetic standpoint. Hand's defiitely got a unique look. Maybe Maria should grow her hair out or something...

[AugustEngine]

Yes mass-murdering sociopaths are hard to intimidate

Selective continuity. I never read her mass-murdering stint, so that's not a thing to me. Civil War only, yo.

[comicbum]

this is a great poll it was hard for me and i am not sure i MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE

she's cool in iron man , a bitch in civil war , and pretty cool in hulk so i dont know . i suppose her dying would make a good story

[Mark_S]

i think she was intended to be short term character so they let her go nuts. Now that they have more use for her they have all her baggage to carry with her.

But marvel writers being marvel writers they'll probably ignore anything that they don't like.

Mark_S

[Jason Abbadon]

I think it's more like this- she was sort of a cutout charcater when she was in charge of SHIELD- someone to be a bitchy advesary for the heroes used t NIck Fury.
Then she has a shining moment at the end of Civil War where she decides to change the rules of the game- suggesting to Tony that he take over SHIELD.

From there, it's all MATT FRACTON!
That guy deserves a beer for making her a threee dimensional character, with a past and flaws, but still determined to win or go down swinging.
Her attitude in IM #25 is of someone shocked that things are getting better suddenly and that she survived it all.

Her transition from first apearance to now makes sense and makes her a great charcater.
She's the best supporting character in Iron Man since Rhodey was introduced and developed.

Now compare her with other SHIELD agents that have been around since the 1960's- prior to Secret Warriors, none of them were ever developed by anyone into anything past heir first appearance (yes, that includes Sharon Carter).

[Hrist]

Now compare her with other SHIELD agents that have been around since the 1960's- prior to Secret Warriors, none of them were ever developed by anyone into anything past heir first appearance (yes, that includes Sharon Carter).

I pretty much disagree about Sharon, esp. under Waid, but Jimmy Woo, and Bobbi Morse especially have definitely developed into something else.

[Jason Abbadon]

I dont really count Bobbi Morse as a SHIELD anything- she was always a costumed hero.
JImi was a character before SHIELD and was static when he was an agent.

I'm talking about the actual agents in uniform- Dum Dum, the Countess, Jasper, Clay Quartermain, Gabe Jones, etc.
All were impossibly static- not even ageing! Dum Dum and gabe are in their 80's for cripe's sake!

Sharon's "development" was to get brainwashed- we still know almost nothing about her- why she joined SHIELD, her past, her opinion on all the turmoil since Fury left, what she was doing in all the years her and Steve were not together, etc.

It's like she only exists as Steve's shadow- she's practically Lindy (Sentry's long suffering wife).

[HeroxMatt2.0]

I think she's morally suspect and not sufficiently aware of how criminal some of her past acts (especially when following illegal orders) really were, but for that very reason she's potentially a fun character to keep around and play with. Like I said in another thread, let Ka-zar and Shanna nab her from her Avengers liaison office and put her on trial in the Savage Land for the deaths of those natives - trial by dinosaur! C'mon, you know it'd be cool to see her going up against velociraptors with nothing but a knife and a fur bikini. Maybe they could get Cho as guest artist.

I love this idea.

[Hrist]

I dont really count Bobbi Morse as a SHIELD anything- she was always a costumed hero.
JImi was a character before SHIELD and was static when he was an agent.

I'm talking about the actual agents in uniform- Dum Dum, the Countess, Jasper, Clay Quartermain, Gabe Jones, etc.
All were impossibly static- not even ageing! Dum Dum and gabe are in their 80's for cripe's sake!

Sharon's "development" was to get brainwashed- we still know almost nothing about her- why she joined SHIELD, her past, her opinion on all the turmoil since Fury left, what she was doing in all the years her and Steve were not together, etc.

It's like she only exists as Steve's shadow- she's practically Lindy (Sentry's long suffering wife).

Nooope. Bobbi was introduced first as a SHIELD biologist and then got upgraded to full-blown agent. Waaay before she met Hawkeye or became Mockingbird, she was Agent 19, sort of Sharon Carter to Ka-Zar, of all people. She wasn't introduced as a costumed hero with a SHIELD backstory, she was introduced as a SHIELD agent who later on became a costumed hero.

Except we do know a ton of that about Sharon. Sharon joined SHIELD inspired by her tales of her aunt Peggy's time during the French Resistance. Her family home is in Virginia, her parents had her very late in life which resulted in some distance between them, so she relied on said aunt a lot, when she and Steve weren't together she was on an extended deep cover mission (everyone thought she was dead) which made her much more cynical/effected her psychology, then after that she served as director for a while creating some tension between her and Fury for a time, she wasn't too thrilled with Maria as director but her job is very important to her.

[Ferago]

I've only seen her in Civil War, but I thought she kicked ass.

What book is she in the most?

[Monty_Cristo]

Nooope. Bobbi was introduced first as a SHIELD biologist and then got upgraded to full-blown agent. Waaay before she met Hawkeye or became Mockingbird, she was Agent 19, sort of Sharon Carter to Ka-Zar, of all people. She wasn't introduced as a costumed hero with a SHIELD backstory, she was introduced as a SHIELD agent who later on became a costumed hero.

Except we do know a ton of that about Sharon. Sharon joined SHIELD inspired by her tales of her aunt Peggy's time during the French Resistance. Her family home is in Virginia, her parents had her very late in life which resulted in some distance between them, so she relied on said aunt a lot, when she and Steve weren't together she was on an extended deep cover mission (everyone thought she was dead) which made her much more cynical/effected her psychology, then after that she served as director for a while creating some tension between her and Fury for a time, she wasn't too thrilled with Maria as director but her job is very important to her.

so does Sharon have the infinity serum in her veins? shouldn't she look a lot older?

[Pixie_Solanas]

She needs to tart it up. I hate this unwritten modern dictum that a strong female character has to be some mannish bulldog in physique and attitude.

Loosen her up.

[mikekerr3]

I really like Maria Hill. But it's understandable if you don't like her because your only exposure to her was around "Civil War". She was not written to be likable around that time period. However, Fraction has really redeemed the character in the pages of "Invincible Iron Man". She's more human there and you get to see different sides of her personality.

How do get redeemed for mass murder?

[Will Lorus]

She needs to tart it up. I hate this unwritten modern dictum that a strong female character has to be some mannish bulldog in physique and attitude.

Loosen her up.

Yeah, I agree with this to an extent. I always liked it in some of the 'Iron Man: Director of SHIELD' issues where she was drawn in a more feminine manner. No need to change her too drastically, just cut the military hair style thing (SHIELD clearly has no regulations on hair) and let her grow it somewhat. Keep the SHIELD uniform though, it looks really good when drawn right.

I think she's pretty cool myself, she was caught in a backlash after Fury left and Civil War, but she still only did what she thought was right and wouldn't let herself be pushed around purely because she had no powers. She also proved to really evolve after the writers decided that you couldn't have a character whose only trait was 'antagonist bitch'.

She certainly impressed me when she marched into that HAMMER corridor and demanded that the agents put the weapons down and stand against Osborn. Damn that was cool. Also, turning a rocket launcher against him in Siege and rescuing Thor was awesome.

[mikekerr3]

I think she's morally suspect and not sufficiently aware of how criminal some of her past acts (especially when following illegal orders) really were, but for that very reason she's potentially a fun character to keep around and play with. Like I said in another thread, let Ka-zar and Shanna nab her from her Avengers liaison office and put her on trial in the Savage Land for the deaths of those natives - trial by dinosaur! C'mon, you know it'd be cool to see her going up against velociraptors with nothing but a knife and a fur bikini. Maybe they could get Cho as guest artist.

They could have a group trial with the "Heros for Hire" under trial for kidnapping and slavery. and super-size the one off

[The Cool Thatguy]

How do get redeemed for mass murder?

Eh, it was a minor, non crossover mini series. Those don't count as canon :tongue:

[mikekerr3]

I've only seen her in Civil War, but I thought she kicked ass.

What book is she in the most?

Pick up NA#6 and you will see where most of the dislike comes from.

[mikekerr3]

Eh, it was a minor, non crossover mini series. Those don't count as canon :tongue:

But an issue of one of Marvels best selling books does, My point:wink:

[The Cool Thatguy]

But an issue of one of Marvels best selling books does, My point:wink:

Oh, thought you were talking about her using suicide bombers against the Inhumans.

...why did she destroy that base in New Avengers?

[mikekerr3]

Oh, thought you were talking about her using suicide bombers against the Inhumans.

...why did she destroy that base in New Avengers?

" I vas oliny following orders"

[Hrist]

so does Sharon have the infinity serum in her veins? shouldn't she look a lot older?

What, because of her aunt? That's one of those holdovers from the Silver Age that really screws with the timeline but is important to her character, originally Peggy was her much-older sister. I think Sharon's supposed to be mid-thirties, though. If her parents were 45 when they had her, her aunt being mid-eighties is at least possible...

Anyway, on topic, I've always liked Maria Hill, even when she was mostly unlikable.

[Mark_S]

From now on I get the feeling that how people will feel about this new Hill will depend on how much of her past marvel is going to ignore to write her as a good girl. I can easily see people she's hunted and attacked suddenly smiling as she walks into the room simply because the writer feels that it will work in the story. Marvel writers aren't long on memory.

Mark_S

[Monty_Cristo]

From now on I get the feeling that how people will feel about this new Hill will depend on how much of her past marvel is going to ignore to write her as a good girl. I can easily see people she's hunted and attacked suddenly smiling as she walks into the room simply because the writer feels that it will work in the story. Marvel writers aren't long on memory.

Mark_S

i feel the same way about her as i did when she slaughtered the Savageland natives or ordered SHIELD agents to fire upon Captain America. i like her a lot.

[dupersuper]

i feel the same way about her as i did when she slaughtered the Savageland natives or ordered SHIELD agents to fire upon Captain America. i like her a lot.

...We're looking for different types of characters, I take it...?

[Vanguard01]

Does anyone have any scans that show Maria Hill committing murder? Specifically, this base destruction (which I think I missed) and the Savage Land killings? My friend claims that the Savage Land killings were done by Skrulls and that the base was an A.I.M. or Hydra base, and thus can't be considered Maria Hill's fault. Help me settle this debate, please. At least more detailed accounts would be nice.

[Jason Abbadon]

Nooope. Bobbi was introduced first as a SHIELD biologist and then got upgraded to full-blown agent. Waaay before she met Hawkeye or became Mockingbird, she was Agent 19, sort of Sharon Carter to Ka-Zar, of all people. She wasn't introduced as a costumed hero with a SHIELD backstory, she was introduced as a SHIELD agent who later on became a costumed hero.

Except we do know a ton of that about Sharon. Sharon joined SHIELD inspired by her tales of her aunt Peggy's time during the French Resistance. Her family home is in Virginia, her parents had her very late in life which resulted in some distance between them, so she relied on said aunt a lot, when she and Steve weren't together she was on an extended deep cover mission (everyone thought she was dead) which made her much more cynical/effected her psychology, then after that she served as director for a while creating some tension between her and Fury for a time, she wasn't too thrilled with Maria as director but her job is very important to her.
Mockingbird was a SHIELD agent for ONE ISSUE.
That's like saying "Quasar was a SHIELD agent"- ihe was one for his origin- just like Mockingbird.:wink:

Where is all that Sharon stuff from? She was originally Peggy's younger sister before they retconned her so she was not a 1960's SHIELD agent.
I'm guessing it's Brubaker's cap run?

I'll concede Sharon got some love- but the point about all the others is glaringly stark- Dum Dum and Gabe are almost exact copies of their first appearances (Gabe went gray) but both have impossible phisiques for octogenerians.
i feel the same way about her as i did when she slaughtered the Savageland natives or ordered SHIELD agents to fire upon Captain America. i like her a lot.

Damn skippy! No deoderant means no human rights!
They'll just become part of the circle of life as dinosaurs eat their remains, their poop fertilizing the plants that feed the herbivores that in turn are eaten...restoring the balance of the Savage Land to it's pristine splendor.

mikekerr3, you keep calling Hill a "mass murderer" but really, how many make up a "mass" to you? Is there room for Cyclops and Wolverine on that trial? How about Hank Pym? Millions of dead aliens cant be wrong.

[vitruvian]

Does anyone have any scans that show Maria Hill committing murder? Specifically, this base destruction (which I think I missed) and the Savage Land killings? My friend claims that the Savage Land killings were done by Skrulls and that the base was an A.I.M. or Hydra base, and thus can't be considered Maria Hill's fault. Help me settle this debate, please. At least more detailed accounts would be nice.

Let him produce the scans, or the issue itself, then. It's not like the events of that New Avengers issue haven't been rehashed here often enough. The Skrulls were in the forms of rogue SHIELD agents who had enslaved a bunch of Savage Land natives to mine vibranium. The helicarrier commanded by Hill employed energy cannon of some kind to obliterate the whole operation to heck, including both the Skrulls and all the natives who were arguably innocent civilian hostages. AIM and HYDRA were nowhere to be seen, although we now know that SHIELD has been getting played by HYDRA basically since forever.

[Mark_S]

My exams are almost over and I'm due to start my 6 box cataloguing of back issues, if you can give me the issue numbers I'll keep and eye out for them.

Mark_S

[vitruvian]

My exams are almost over and I'm due to start my 6 box cataloguing of back issues, if you can give me the issue numbers I'll keep and eye out for them.

Mark_S

NA # 6 (probably nab 5-7 just to be safe), the Silent War mini, CW main series, that should about cover things.

[Hrist]

Mockingbird was a SHIELD agent for ONE ISSUE.
That's like saying "Quasar was a SHIELD agent"- ihe was one for his origin- just like Mockingbird.:wink:

Where is all that Sharon stuff from? She was originally Peggy's younger sister before they retconned her so she was not a 1960's SHIELD agent.
I'm guessing it's Brubaker's cap run?

I'll concede Sharon got some love- but the point about all the others is glaringly stark- Dum Dum and Gabe are almost exact copies of their first appearances (Gabe went gray) but both have impossible phisiques for octogenerians.

No, she appeared several times in Ka-zar comics (Astonishing Tales/Ka-Zar) as a SHIELD agent, many years before becoming Mockingbird. The Ka-zar comic didn't have a particularly long run, and once they introduced Shanna, Bobbi was reduced to second fiddle, but she was around for two years as Agent 19, and since these were her first appearances, I think they count for something. I wouldn't be bringing her up if I didn't think she was originally meant to be a SHIELD agent period, not costumed fighter whose origin was as a SHIELD agent. (Well, I guess going by her first appearance she was supposed to be a brunette psychic, but...)

And the retcon of Peggy being Sharon's aunt was something Brubaker did, but her motivation to join SHIELD has always been based around listening to Peggy's stories as a girl, we've known that since about her first appearance. And no, that wasn't all Brubaker's run, some of it was Waid's, some of it was stuff I vaguely remember from...Marvel Knights, I think, of all places. Brubaker did recently devote an entire issue to Sharon's relationship with her hometown and family, though. Solo Sharon Carter issue, no appearances by any Captain America.

The thing about "1960s SHIELD agent" is to me misleading, because SHIELD existing back then at all would be a retcon. Nick Fury joined the organization in Strange Tales 135, which might have been published in the 1960s, but with the sliding timeline it probably couldn't have taken place then. (Tony Stark was there, for one thing.) But SHIELD seems to be subject to the sliding timeline differently. I mean, they're obviously retconning in Hickman's book right now, but that's all a retcon, before other books seemed to casually indicate SHIELD was around during the Cold War, and Fury was still in charge of it. It's certainly continuity that benefits from squinting around.

As for most SHIELD characters being static: of course. They don't have any books to develop in, really. The only times SHIELD has held a title was pretty briefly in the sixties and then again in the early nineties, and you can see why those time periods wouldn't lead to a whole ton of character development. Even Nick Fury himself is generally just an obstacle or plot device in other books, that's why Bendis wanted to get rid of him. But characters who are agents of SHIELD who also have gigs as regular supporting cast in other titles fare much better. I think Sharon's the best example given she has been associated with SHIELD since 1966, and I think there was clear development from her first death to Waid bringing her back to Brubaker's use of her. But Dum Dum even got some nice moments in Iron Man, Director of SHIELD, dealing with how he felt the organization should be run, his misgivings with Stark, etc, but that was a Skrull. But, say, someone like Agent Sum, who appeared in Ms. Marvel for just a few issues, got secrets and a fantastical backstory.

[Vanguard01]

Let him produce the scans, or the issue itself, then. It's not like the events of that New Avengers issue haven't been rehashed here often enough. The Skrulls were in the forms of rogue SHIELD agents who had enslaved a bunch of Savage Land natives to mine vibranium. The helicarrier commanded by Hill employed energy cannon of some kind to obliterate the whole operation to heck, including both the Skrulls and all the natives who were arguably innocent civilian hostages. AIM and HYDRA were nowhere to be seen, although we now know that SHIELD has been getting played by HYDRA basically since forever.

I would ask him to provide the images himself. The problem is he doesn't have those issues and neither do I. If it was a simple matter of combing through our collections, I wouldn't have bothered to ask for help here.

Now, what you say sounds pretty damning to me. I have no problem believing what you say. I hate Maria Hill, and I'm disgusted that she's suddenly getting billed as a hero. Like we're all just supposed to forget all the crap she's done. So, unless you are totally off the map, it sounds like I'm right and my friend is wrong. Maria Hill is a mass murderer and she has no right to work alongside heroes in the Heroic Age.

[bulbasteve]

If only Daisy Johnson wasn't her twin, she'd seem more unique from an aesthetic standpoint. Hand's defiitely got a unique look. Maybe Maria should grow her hair out or something...

How DARE you. I can deal with people calling her a mass murderer. But to have the temerity to say she should get a new hairdo... well that I cannot stand!

[mikekerr3]

...We're looking for different types of characters, I take it...?

He identifies more with the scumbags.:wink:

[mikekerr3]

Does anyone have any scans that show Maria Hill committing murder? Specifically, this base destruction (which I think I missed) and the Savage Land killings? My friend claims that the Savage Land killings were done by Skrulls and that the base was an A.I.M. or Hydra base, and thus can't be considered Maria Hill's fault. Help me settle this debate, please. At least more detailed accounts would be nice.

New Avengers#6, the skulls were not even mentioned in the books and Hill was the commander of the forces that wiped out the savage land natives being held as slaves

[mikekerr3]

mikekerr3, you keep calling Hill a "mass murderer" but really, how many make up a "mass" to you? Is there room for Cyclops and Wolverine on that trial? How about Hank Pym? Millions of dead aliens cant be wrong.

The slave work force that was shown in the books is large enough to be considered mass-murder

Pymidid not intentionally murder anyone, and his experiment was not particularly reckless so he get a pass on that one.

Cyclops and Wolverine are killers but since they are going after compartments who are active trying to commit genocide I will give them a little room. Hill on the other hand intentionally murdered non-combatants

The slave work force that was shown in the books is large enough to be conidered mass-murder

[Jason Abbadon]

SHIELD technology teleported them away at the last minute- it's at least as plausable as "the Hulk never killed anyone".:biggrin:

[vitruvian]

SHIELD technology teleported them away at the last minute- it's at least as plausable as "the Hulk never killed anyone".:biggrin:

Yeah, if they could do that they could have teleported the rogue SHIELD agents to holding cells, too, and discovered the Skrull infiltrators quite a few publishing years early.

Title and issue where your theory is shown? No? Okay, then, Ka-zar still gets to throw her in a pit of velociraptors. If she wins in the pit, you must acquit.

[mikekerr3]

SHIELD technology teleported them away at the last minute- it's at least as plausable as "the Hulk never killed anyone".:biggrin:

That would be a stretch but since that was never shown it didm' t happen.


If Hill was other than a murderous idiot the Skrulls would have been found out earlier and may lives would have been saved, not including the lives of the native that she murdered

[Wellman]

To be fair it is just a bunch of savage land natives.


They either have a good clone facility or get a new bunch of technological stumped barbarian group to repopulate, almost every time someone visits, don't they?

[Mikey Brown]

To be fair it is just a bunch of savage land natives.


They either have a good clone facility or get a new bunch of technological stumped barbarian group to repopulate, almost every time someone visits, don't they?I totally agree, but don't expect those guys to! Shes the devil!

[HeroxMatt2.0]

What did Hill do? I don't think I've read it, and I can't find much info online. :S

[vitruvian]

To be fair it is just a bunch of savage land natives.

That's a bit problematic - you could insert any ethnic, national, or racial group in there to replace 'savage land natives', and it wouldn't be any more wrong. Try these...

To be fair it is just a bunch of African natives.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Chinese natives.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Red Indians.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Jews.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Palestinians.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Aborigines.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Catholics.

To be fair it is just a bunch of American stockbrokers.

See the problem yet?

To be fair it is just a bunch of people.

[celticguy]

That's a bit problematic - you could insert any ethnic, national, or racial group in there to replace 'savage land natives', and it wouldn't be any more wrong. Try these...



To be fair it is just a bunch of American stockbrokers.

See the problem yet?

To be fair it is just a bunch of people.

I could live with this one.

[celticguy]

pulled this from wiki no idea where it is from

Joe Quesada: "[Hill] is such a strong personality, she's like a force of nature and quite frankly, while perhaps not immediately loved by all involved, she's certainly as strong and imposing a figure as Nick Fury. Right now I feel that people view her as the outsider but [while] I don't think she’s any harsher than Fury has ever been, what's different is that we aren’t quite clear about her motives".[14]

[Kraven]

I can't get over the total cow she was during civil war and before, I'm not even sure what she did to redeem herself

BTW At this moment in time: 83 Like her - 83 Hate her

[Mikey Brown]

That's a bit problematic - you could insert any ethnic, national, or racial group in there to replace 'savage land natives', and it wouldn't be any more wrong. Try these...

To be fair it is just a bunch of African natives.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Chinese natives.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Red Indians.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Jews.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Palestinians.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Aborigines.

To be fair it is just a bunch of Catholics.

To be fair it is just a bunch of American stockbrokers.

See the problem yet?

To be fair it is just a bunch of people.Well no. Savage Land natives are mutates, which are grown in tubes and have the intelligence of a tree. Brainchild could just grow more of them, problem solved.

[ArmenianG]

When frankie comes back to life, he should pillage her...

[mikekerr3]

Well no. Savage Land natives are mutates, which are grown in tubes and have the intelligence of a tree. Brainchild could just grow more of them, problem solved.

The Mutates are savage land natives but al the people in thae Savage land are not mutates, What makes you think they were? Even if they were the same logic applies

[hysang]

The Avengers books always need someone who is a little annoying. Plus she has history with Stark and Cap, so it works.

[HaroldAllnut]

I hated her for a good long while, and then Matt Fraction turned the character around for me by giving us more of a look into her past. I think she's an excellently developed character and would hate to see her go.

[Mikey Brown]

The Mutates are savage land natives but al the people in thae Savage land are not mutates, What makes you think they were? Even if they were the same logic appliesBecause the SHIELD skrulls were using mutates to do the work. In every picture, it shows skrull SHIELD agents making mutates do their work. See NA #5, #6, and #41. Not only that but its also been established that Hill was set up. I know she was the commander but as we all know, commanders are pretty much controlled by the people under them. In Hill's case, she was highly influenced by skrulls.

[mikekerr3]

Because the SHIELD skrulls were using mutates to do the work. In every picture, it shows skrull SHIELD agents making mutates do their work. See NA #5, #6, and #41. I see people wearing clothing even if it not much, Whether they were mutates, which can talk and think , or natives it makes no damned difference at all, they are still people


Not only that but its also been established that Hill was set up. I know she was the commander but as we all know, commanders are pretty much controlled by the people under them. In Hill's case, she was highly influenced by skrulls.

Hill was on scene and used Line of sight weapons there is no way she missed the presence of the people she murdered.

And if you think that commanders are controlled by the ppeole under them you haven't a clue.( I miss that icon I'd need about 50 of them for that statement

Both Cap and Spidey called her out as a murderer and they were witnesses.

Even if she was ordered to kill everyone there she was the on scene commander and had the responsibility and both the the legal and moral, authority to refuse/modify those orders.

[mikekerr3]

I hated her for a good long while, and then Matt Fraction turned the character around for me by giving us more of a look into her past. I think she's an excellently developed character and would hate to see her go.

What in her past justifies mass-murder?

[JWangSDC]

ever since secret invasion I've been liking her.

[lou-bert vs. q-bert]

Maria is overvalued and overrated. Victoria Hand rules, effers!

[vitruvian]

Well no. Savage Land natives are mutates, which are grown in tubes and have the intelligence of a tree. Brainchild could just grow more of them, problem solved.

Well, no, they're not. We've been over this before, but I guess you don't read.

The mutates are a specific, small bunch of Savage Land natives given powers by Magneto, with perfectly standard intelligence for somewhat primitive humans, although admittedly none of them except Brainchild are exactly what you'd call terribly bright.

The Savage Land natives consist of a fair number of different tribes living throughout the Savage Land, most of them human (Cro-Magnon or Neandertal types at worst, but still definitely human), some of them human-like hominid variants like the tree-dwelling people with fur and tails. The specific tribe enslaved by the Skrulls masquerading as SHIELD agents were drawn to look like they might be Neandertals, so maybe not particularly bright, but not subhuman and not grown in test tubes.

Anyway, even if they were all mutates grown in tubes, you need considerably more intelligence than a tree (unless we're talking Groot's people or the Cotati) in order to be tool users capable of speech, kind of basic requirements for useful vibranium-mining slaves. So, even if you were right about their origins, you'd still be wrong about whether they should count as people.

[Hypestyle]

she's hot, but too reactionary.. :frown:

[Monty_Cristo]

Maria is overvalued and overrated. Victoria Hand rules, effers!

it's not mutually exclusive. Victoria's on a whole 'nother level. but Hill's just a great character (imo). she's not elegant like Hand but has a rugged 'tank girl' charm all her own.

[Mikey Brown]

Well, no, they're not. We've been over this before, but I guess you don't read.

The mutates are a specific, small bunch of Savage Land natives given powers by Magneto, with perfectly standard intelligence for somewhat primitive humans, although admittedly none of them except Brainchild are exactly what you'd call terribly bright.

The Savage Land natives consist of a fair number of different tribes living throughout the Savage Land, most of them human (Cro-Magnon or Neandertal types at worst, but still definitely human), some of them human-like hominid variants like the tree-dwelling people with fur and tails. The specific tribe enslaved by the Skrulls masquerading as SHIELD agents were drawn to look like they might be Neandertals, so maybe not particularly bright, but not subhuman and not grown in test tubes.

Anyway, even if they were all mutates grown in tubes, you need considerably more intelligence than a tree (unless we're talking Groot's people or the Cotati) in order to be tool users capable of speech, kind of basic requirements for useful vibranium-mining slaves. So, even if you were right about their origins, you'd still be wrong about whether they should count as people.Dude, has there been one time where you have answered and not tried to be insulting?

I went back through the books. SHIELD skrulls were using mutates, the same mutates that attacked NA when they arrived in the Savage Land. When two different artists draw something, then thats just what they are, argument over. The natives were hanging with Ka-Zarr and Shanna.

And as for your stance on what mutates are, they are fodder, extremely low intelligence and can be grown over and over. I don't care what happens to them honestly, because this is a comic book. But you obviously won't stop posting these over the top posts and it won't stop Mike either.

[mikekerr3]

Dude, has there been one time where you have answered and not tried to be insulting?

I went back through the books. SHIELD skrulls were using mutates, the same mutates that attacked NA when they arrived in the Savage Land. When two different artists draw something, then thats just what they are, argument over. The natives were hanging with Ka-Zarr and Shanna.

And as for your stance on what mutates are, they are fodder, extremely low intelligence and can be grown over and over. I don't care what happens to them honestly, because this is a comic book. But you obviously won't stop posting these over the top posts and it won't stop Mike either.

What is the difference morally between killing civilians in the Streets of NYC

You might not care if characters in comic books commit mass murder, but some of us do.

What is the difference morally between killing civilians in the Streets of NYC and killing civilians in the Savage Land?

[Monty_Cristo]

What is the difference morally between killing civilians in the Streets of NYC

You might not care if characters in comic books commit mass murder, but some of us do.

What is the difference morally between killing civilians in the Streets of NYC and killing civilians in the Savage Land?

NYC is real. Savage Land is fictional.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Her head needs the crustacean-cap treatment that Hickman is fond of doling out.

[Mikey Brown]

NYC is real. Savage Land is fictional.^This, and mutates can be made over and over, thus removing any emotional ties with readers.

[vitruvian]

Dude, has there been one time where you have answered and not tried to be insulting?

I went back through the books. SHIELD skrulls were using mutates, the same mutates that attacked NA when they arrived in the Savage Land. When two different artists draw something, then thats just what they are, argument over. The natives were hanging with Ka-Zarr and Shanna.

And as for your stance on what mutates are, they are fodder, extremely low intelligence and can be grown over and over. I don't care what happens to them honestly, because this is a comic book. But you obviously won't stop posting these over the top posts and it won't stop Mike either.

I'm sorry if you take it as an insult when I point out that you're wrong.

Yes, the Savage Land mutates were there and attacked the NA (backed up by some unmutated natives) and even had them captive for a bit. They're a rather small group of natives that were given superpowers by Magneto. Their members include Amphibius, Barbarus, Brainchild, Gaza, Lorelei, Leash, Lupo, Lupa, Equilibrius, Piper, Vertigo, Whiteout, Worm, and probably a few undisclosed members, but that's it for known members of the Savage Land mutates. They are not the same as the rather large group of natives without superpowers that were enslaved to mine vibranium for the bad guys.

Neither group is grown in tubes. The only sense in which they can be 'grown over and over' (except for Vertigo, who was later one of the Marauders and benefitted from Mister Sinister's version of life insurance - cloning) is the same way in which that applies to any group of human beings - they can have kids and repopulate in time. Neither is their level of intelligence supposed to be particularly low, at least not lower than caveman level, and among the actual mutates, Brainchild is actually superintelligent.

[vitruvian]

NYC is real. Savage Land is fictional.

MU NYC is just as fictional, no? None of them are real people, but neither is Maria Hill. We're talking about our opinions on a fictional character within the context of her fictional universe. Within that universe, people in the Savage Land are just as much people as those living in NYC.

[vitruvian]

^This, and mutates can be made over and over, thus removing any emotional ties with readers.

Title and issue cite for this belief, please.

[Monty_Cristo]

MU NYC is just as fictional, no? None of them are real people,

i don't care if they are slaughtered either. didn't impact my love of the U-Foes any.

[vitruvian]

i don't care if they are slaughtered either. didn't impact my love of the U-Foes any.

Okay, so you're talking about loving or hating Hill in terms of whether you enjoy seeing her in stories or not, as opposed to with regard to her moral status or whether you'd like her if you had to deal with her personally (since presumably you would care if the U-Foes killed you). Fair enough.

What if the poll was instead Maria Hill: Hero or Scumbag? Which way would you vote, given the totality of her actions that have been shown?

[HeroxMatt2.0]

What did Hill do in the Savage Land?

[Jason Abbadon]

What did Hill do in the Savage Land?

Took out some trash littering up the place and hogging valuable recources.:wink:

[Jason Abbadon]

That would be a stretch but since that was never shown it didm' t happen.


If Hill was other than a murderous idiot the Skrulls would have been found out earlier and may lives would have been saved, not including the lives of the native that she murdered

Now that's a silly thing to say- the Skrulls had been infiltrating sine- well, forever- without detection.
Fury, Stark, Hill, Reed Richards, Baron Strucker- none of them knew anything.
Hell Reed had a skrull living in his house, babysitting his kid and marrying his step-brother for years without knowing it!

Love her or hate her, Hill gets a big pardon if that slimy Victoria Hand does- Hand's accomplice to everything Osborn did- including shooting down a civillian airliner- a MAJOR act of terrorism in US airspace.:eek:

[Mark_S]

What did Hill do in the Savage Land?

Killed innocent people. That's ok to do these days in the marvel universe.

Mark_S

[pariah-1972]

Killed innocent people. That's ok to do these days in the marvel universe.

Mark_SThat has been the case at least since the seventies.

[coveredinbees]

I don't understand why she always has to look so unattractive. But sometimes I'm glad she's there for me to hate.

[mikekerr3]

What did Hill do in the Savage Land?

Mass murder of people being held as slaves.

[mikekerr3]

Now that's a silly thing to say- the Skrulls had been infiltrating sine- well, forever- without detection.
Fury, Stark, Hill, Reed Richards, Baron Strucker- none of them knew anything.
Hell Reed had a skrull living in his house, babysitting his kid and marrying his step-brother for years without knowing it!

Love her or hate her, Hill gets a big pardon if that slimy Victoria Hand does- Hand's accomplice to everything Osborn did- including shooting down a civillian airliner- a MAJOR act of terrorism in US airspace.:eek:

The Dead Skrulls after a fight would have been a sure give away, their presence and that they were infiltrating SHIELD would have become obvious

[HeroxMatt2.0]

Killed innocent people. That's ok to do these days in the marvel universe.

Mark_S

Yeah, but like .. how? I can' seem to find any clear, definitive information here except on this thread, which is mainly opinion as well.

I don't understand why she always has to look so unattractive. But sometimes I'm glad she's there for me to hate.

She looked pretty good with her brown pixie cut in IIM 26! :biggrin:

Mass murder of people being held as slaves.

Same as the above question, unless you can direct me to certain comic book issues etc?