Annihilation over Civil War any day

[40yearoldnovafan]

I have been a reader of Marvel since the 1970s. I am saddened because many readers are choosing Civil War over Annihilation. In my opinion Annihilation is a far better story and has meanining. Our galaxy (or the one next to us) has been invaded by a massive military might and a number of aliens and cosmic heroes are dying trying to defeat this unbeatable army.

With Civil War, heroes are acting very uncharacteristically. Iron Man beats the crap out of Captain America. Spiderman gives up his identity and fights against Cap while telling jokes. Reed Richards acts like a jerk and chooses the governments side instead of his life long partner and wife, Sue. Heroes are killing heroes or imprisonning them in the negative zone.

To me Civil War (which I am still reading) is bogus! I'm sorry Joe Q. but you are making a story which is selling very well, but this is not what Marvel's heroes would be doing. These are not the people I grew up with - these are fakes.

All this soap opera to make a buck!

I make enough money to buy both "epics", but if I had to choose - I would choose Annihilation every time.

Jimmy

[astronato]

Dont be sad. I think Annihilation is doin pretty well for itself, all things considered.

All the big stars and all the hype has gone to Civil War but Annihilation has generated nothing but positve buzz using obscure (but great) characters.

But yeah, I hated Infinite Crisis and I am pretty blah towards Civil War. Annihilation has been an unexpected crossover treat.

[K Von Doom]

Jimmy

You blame Joe Q? Are you, perchance, Jimmy Palmiotti?

Annihilation is better than Civil War by the way :)

[CyberCoyote]

I'd like to say I'd give more credit to CW on an even playing field, if it slipped in like Annhi without all the hype and pomp, but I wouldn't.

CW really makes me ill. Heroes that aren't heroes but every day guys and gals with powers doing what Joe Blow down the street would do.

In Annhi we've got some of the biggest Villains of all time, Ronan and Super Skrull, and we're cheering them on! They ARE heroes. Ronan the Accuser ten times more hero than Stark and Richards combined? How is that possible??

I'm kind of glad Annihilation wasn't preceeded by fireworks and attempts to promote it on Comedy Central. The creative team admits they didn't set out to 'make an event', just tell a good story. That's what I want, a good story. Not to be told a GREAT story is coming and then have something thrown out that's 'it'. In CW maybe they're just trying too hard to live up to the pats on the backs they've been giving eachother (the sound of which was so loud they never even told the Annhi crew about '42', which leads me to believe none of the CW folks knew about or cared a bit about the other project)

[XPac]

The thing with Annihilation is that it sort of caters to a niche. Not everyone is a fan of the cosmic stuff, just like not everyone is a fan of western books or horror books or street level character books, etc etc.

Civil War is a more mainstream little, with marvels big guns. There's no Wolverine or Spiderman in sight in Annihilation. To me it's almost a given that it won't sell as well. But really NOTHING marvel has put out in a decade sells better than Civil War, so there's no shame here. Annihilation is a good fun book, regardless of whether it sells as well as CW or not.

I personally read and enjoy both Civil War and Annihilation, and see no reason we need to think of them as competing.

[jmc247]

You get big sales destorying lots of big name characters the way Civil War is doing. Everyone wants to know what happens next. But, long term it does damage to the franchise and the characters in question. Avengers 503 is a great example of that. It may have sold well, but it wasn't an execptional story and it damaged the character of Wanda long term.

Good stories are made when they play off the actual interaction of characters without changing their long standing traits just to fit the story. Why Morrisons Magneto sucked was that he changed the character to fit his post 911 Magneto as Bin Laden and mutants as muslims notion. Civil War is failing as a story because they are changing estabilished characters greatly to fit the story. They are also going further then Marvel ever has in trying to send a political message by using somewhat real to life issues. The biggest problem in how they are doing it is the War on Terror is not compairable to the bullshit happening in Civil War and neither are the characters no matter how hard they try to fit them.

Annihilation isn't trying to send a clear political message, Annihilation isn't re-writing estabilished characters to fit the plot, Annihilation is just trying to tell a good story.

[Lord S]

Yeah I too am not very fond of 'Civil War' right now.

I mean I'll buy the main title, but I'm not wasting money on any of the tie-ins. The only tie-ins I bought were at the beginning: FF 537 (Doom holding Mjolnir on the cover), 'New Avengers Illuminati' (a great issue), and 'Front Line' #1 which I picked up somewhere for $2. I really don't plan on buying anything else, just the main issues to finish out the series. #4 was a real let-down for me.

While I'm happy 'Civil War' is doing well and making money...'Annihilation' is a better story. Yes I know 'Civil War' and its tie-ins are out-selling 'Annihilation' something like 20-1...the latter is still a more entertaining story.

[Slade.]

I have been a reader of Marvel since the 1970s. I am saddened because many readers are choosing Civil War over Annihilation. In my opinion Annihilation is a far better story and has meanining. Our galaxy (or the one next to us) has been invaded by a massive military might and a number of aliens and cosmic heroes are dying trying to defeat this unbeatable army.

With Civil War, heroes are acting very uncharacteristically. Iron Man beats the crap out of Captain America. Spiderman gives up his identity and fights against Cap while telling jokes. Reed Richards acts like a jerk and chooses the governments side instead of his life long partner and wife, Sue. Heroes are killing heroes or imprisonning them in the negative zone.

To me Civil War (which I am still reading) is bogus! I'm sorry Joe Q. but you are making a story which is selling very well, but this is not what Marvel's heroes would be doing. These are not the people I grew up with - these are fakes.

All this soap opera to make a buck!

I make enough money to buy both "epics", but if I had to choose - I would choose Annihilation every time.

Jimmy

I'm sorry but I can't listen to this plain, straight out bullshit. "These are fakes!", "these aren't Marvel heros!". Excuse me, who are you? Who put you in the position to decide what THEIR characers can and can't do? Who are you to change them for me? Maybe I LIKE them? Stop crying, seriosly. THEY'RE NOT THE SAME CHARACTERS BECUZ IT'S BEEN 40 YEARS! I understand how that might alienate YOU, but it's just fine for alot of US. It's REAL simple, and I belive they've even said this.

If. You. Don't. Like. It. Don't. Read. It.

I don't think Civil War is some amazing nce in a lifetime story, but it's nowhere near total crap as some are saying, and the only people saying that are the ones getting angry over their favorite characters not going in the direction they wanted. Well guess what if they went that way, then someone ELSE would be mad. SOMEONE always IS. Can't please everyone.

And yes Annihilation is good, although sometimes a little too science fiction outter space geeky. But good.

[XPac]

I do agree with the criticism that several characters in Civil War are being written a bit out of character. But truthfully, I'd say the same thing for several people in Annihilation as well. But in neither instance has it really effected by enjoyment of the books.

[bulbasteve]

While it is well and good that you have been a fan since the 70s (or actually kinda strange if you ask me). But for guys like me who grew up in those crazy 90s and started and ended comic reading at two of the low points (Maximum Carnage and Clone Saga respectively), it was the mainstream attention of the Times and stuff that made me go "hey...woah comics, I gotta read those again!"

As for Annihilation, it's a good story and all but you have to admit it really is the epitome of the "summer blockbuster" event that it is. It's pure popcorn munching, there isn't much (if any) real depth in the story, it's just a nice entertaining yarn.

[CyberCoyote]

While it is well and good that you have been a fan since the 70s (or actually kinda strange if you ask me). But for guys like me who grew up in those crazy 90s and started and ended comic reading at two of the low points (Maximum Carnage and Clone Saga respectively), it was the mainstream attention of the Times and stuff that made me go "hey...woah comics, I gotta read those again!"

As for Annihilation, it's a good story and all but you have to admit it really is the epitome of the "summer blockbuster" event that it is. It's pure popcorn munching, there isn't much (if any) real depth in the story, it's just a nice entertaining yarn.


Hey now, I've been reading comics for over 30 years myself. Nothing strange there. Most of the folks writing these things are longer time fans than us :)

Yes, Annihilation is 'a fun popcorn' story, but honestly it's not trying to be anything else and it's REALLY fun. And yes, in CW characters are being forced into roles that they wouldn't fit naturally given their histories. I don't see that same forced characterization in Annhi. There's a situation that's forcing characters to do things they normally wouldn't (Ronan and SS working together), but it's the potential end of the universe, war makes strange bedfellows. In CW the situation is being forced into existence BY the actions of the characters themselves. That's what makes it feel pretty silly to me.

As far as how 'important' the stories are, Annihilation is going to change the entire universe around the MU Earth, CW is basically just changing characters on the MU earth. I know the 50 state initiative thing is the real reason for the whole thing, and it's probably a good idea, but in the course they're basically demoting a number of heroes from 'super-hero' status to 'guy with power who's got a lot of schmuck-appeal'. For me at least. :(

And bless anyone who got into comics in the 90's and stuck with it! THAT'S showing true grit :)

[astronato]

I'm sorry but I can't listen to this plain, straight out bullshit. "These are fakes!", "these aren't Marvel heros!". Excuse me, who are you? Who put you in the position to decide what THEIR characers can and can't do? Who are you to change them for me? Maybe I LIKE them? Stop crying, seriosly. THEY'RE NOT THE SAME CHARACTERS BECUZ IT'S BEEN 40 YEARS! I understand how that might alienate YOU, but it's just fine for alot of US. It's REAL simple, and I belive they've even said this.

If. You. Don't. Like. It. Don't. Read. It.



Nah. He gets to buy it and have an opinion about it.

If other peoples opinions bother you so much, maybe you should take your own advice and not read them.

[Jeff F]

I understand this plea.

I want books that I like to do well. I want people to love that which I love with equal passion.

However, I'm just not arrogant enough anymore. I understand that not everyone is going to share my opinion.

Art only has the worth which we place in it. No art is better than another piece of art.

[40yearoldnovafan]

My COMPARISON of Annihilation and Civil War started because somewhere else on this forum a fan said he was reading Civil War and wanted to know if Annihilation was worthwhile. The fan had limited funds, so I told him if I had to choose, I would choose Annihilation. But then I told him I don't have to choose so I read both.

I have been reading these characters for years. You say characters change, but they do not change like this over night and this drastically. If you want to see friends or families fighting, go watch Jerry Springer. The crap happening between Cap, Iron Man, and Spiderman would not happen because the governments says so. The crap happening between Reed and Sue would not happen. If you are married, would you ostrasize your wife for our government? I am a government official and I would not treat my family the way Reed is treating his. I would not treat my life long friends the way Tony Stark is treating them (beating them to death and jailing them).

Give me a break. Slade, put yourself in these characters' place, would you betray all you love for this? I am just looking for consistency and reality in who these (fictional) people are. These people I have known for years.

I have a right to my opinion without someone attempting to jump all over me.

Just look at this post as I meant it to be - a comparison between the two stories and why I choose Annihilation as the better. I was also trying to spark a discussion over characters I enjoy - not start someone on a tirade over people whining and ordering others "not to read it if you don't like it."

I am not trying to knock a story you may be enjoying. If I've done this during my attempts to get someone to start reading Annihilation, I'm sorry.

Jimmy

[Bobster777]

My COMPARISON of Annihilation and Civil War started because somewhere else on this forum a fan said he was reading Civil War and wanted to know if Annihilation was worthwhile. The fan had limited funds, so I told him if I had to choose, I would choose Annihilation. But then I told him I don't have to choose so I read both.

I have been reading these characters for years. You say characters change, but they do not change like this over night and this drastically. If you want to see friends or families fighting, go watch Jerry Springer. The crap happening between Cap, Iron Man, and Spiderman would not happen because the governments says so. The crap happening between Reed and Sue would not happen. If you are married, would you ostrasize your wife for our government? I am a government official and I would not treat my family the way Reed is treating his. I would not treat my life long friends the way Tony Stark is treating them (beating them to death and jailing them).

Give me a break. Slade, put yourself in these characters' place, would you betray all you love for this? I am just looking for consistency and reality in who these (fictional) people are. These people I have known for years.

I have a feeling you are half my age or less (I am 40) because you are critisizing my critique as if I am attacking you. I have a right to my opinion without someone attempting to jump all over me.

Just look at this post as I meant it to be - a comparison between the two stories and why I choose Annihilation as the better. I was also trying to spark a discussion over characters I enjoy - not start someone on a tirade over people whining and ordering others "not to read it if you don't like it."

I've probably been reading comics since before you were born. I am not trying to knock a story you may be enjoying. If I've done this during my attempts to get someone to start reading Annihilation, I'm sorry.

Jimmy
Is this is the first time Reed has ever been this way to his wife? I don't think so. Reed gives her the cold shoulder all the time when he is trying to solve something huge. I'm not trying to attack your pov either, but I hate it when people are so adament that these characters can't simply be acting this way. Also, we've had so much story up to this point showing why Tony would act this way. Finally, this country gets divided so easily over controversial issues. Why is it so hard to believe that this can happen in comics? You have two sides who firmly believe in their stance. If you friend was doing something wrong, would you still support them, or would you stop them from doing wrong? In this case, both sides feel the other side is doing wrong. Unfortunately now, things have gotten out of control.

[Bobster777]

In terms of which story to invest in if you are low on funds, if you love the cosmic scene, then definitely get Annihilation because this story will most likely change everything. If you are more interested in the core Marvel U based on Earth, then go for CW because it will impact this certain area more.

[Dark Soul # 7]

I'm enjoying both stories very much.

I can understand that some people are upset about the way certain characters are behaving in Civil War but it's personaly I'm ok with it. Yes they are heroes but they're also humans and when humans believe in something and have to fight for that belif they can lose their way, overreact and/or make misstakes in the name of what they feel is the right thing to do.
That's one of the reasons I like Civil War, it shows that Marvel's characters still are human with all the flaws that come with that aspect. It might be taken to the extreme somewhat but still not really a problem for me.

However I am enjoying Annihilation even more than Civil War. It just feels more daring and epic. Daring because they're working with mostly B-list characters and therefore have a little more freedom to do what they want with them and epic just because of the scale of the conflict in the story. Also Annihilation got me to love Super-skrull and has me interested in Drax and Ronan and their own stories so cudos to them for that.
And the art in Annihilation kicks the crap out of the art in Civil War.

But in the end I'm loving both stories. I just love Annihilation more.

[Slade.]

Nah. He gets to buy it and have an opinion about it.

If other peoples opinions bother you so much, maybe you should take your own advice and not read them.

No, that's stupid. I don't care that he doesn't like it. What BOTHERS me is his whining, and acting like these characters are "fake" and anyone who might like Civil War is a "fake" and stupid.

But he cleared it up in his second post so yea.

[Nova3333]

Well as another Nova fan, for the record I'm enjoying Annihilation and Civil War. Obviously I'm enjoying Annihilation more but Civil War is also a riverting read. Both are excellent in some ways; maybe have their dissappointments too. In truth I think it would have been better if both had been run at different times rather than "together". That way ther would be no conflict of interests. Just enjoy the stories and lets leave it at that!

[astronato]

No, that's stupid. I don't care that he doesn't like it. What BOTHERS me is his whining, and acting like these characters are "fake" and anyone who might like Civil War is a "fake" and stupid.

But he cleared it up in his second post so yea.

uhh, yeah i guess that nuance between expressing your opinion and "whining" is what escaped me. So did where he referred to, or inferred that anyone who likes CW is fake or stupid.

[40yearoldnovafan]

Astronato had it right. I did not say anyone who enjoys Civil War is fake or stupid. I never even said I hated Civil War. I did not say Civil War is fake or stupid. Slade, all I was saying is I just do not like how they are portraying the characters I have loved for years. And I am saying I enjoy Annihilation better. Everyone has a right to their opinions and to express those opinions.

Jimmy

[Raker Q.]

I read both but I like Annihilation more.....then again I've always prefered cosmic storys.....I don't think I've posted on the Cilver War forum yet. I like it here......this is home............hmmmmmmmm.....makes me wonder what will happen when Annihilation is over.....will we have a Nova forum?....Cosmic forum?.....oh man.....what will happen to our home!? :confused:

[Dark Soul # 7]

I read both but I like Annihilation more.....then again I've always prefered cosmic storys.....I don't think I've posted on the Cilver War forum yet. I like it here......this is home............hmmmmmmmm.....makes me wonder what will happen when Annihilation is over.....will we have a Nova forum?....Cosmic forum?.....oh man.....what will happen to our home!? :confused:It'll probably be merged with the Marvel forum.

[Nova3333]

..Or perhaps they're should be a general Cosmic Marvel Universe Forum that covers the one-shots, the Nova Monthy, Mini series (i.e Quasar), etc....perhaps we'll have to get Expletive Deleted to moderate it!

[Bruce Wang]

I must be in the minority here but I enjoy CW more than Annihilation. To me, Annihilation is how someone said, a popcorn book. As for CW, I think it's more enjoyable as it is a reflection of the times we live in (albeit a poor fit). Also, the ramifications of the CW is more important to the Marvel universe.

In response to the comments of how certain characters are acting, I don't see the way they are acting is entirely uncharacteristic. I've known police officers who would turn their own children in if they committed a crime. In addition, my grandparents have known people during the Cultural Revolution in China who had placed their friends and parents under arrest over political beliefs. You may think you know someone very well but the fact of the matter is that you never know what they are capable of.

[Butch Mapa]

Heh. Unbelievable, a thread where fans are debating on which two MARVEL events are better. Joe Q's gotta be real happy with that. :)

Hard to compare the two, since they seem like opposite animals to me. On one hand you've got a cosmic, old school epic... and on the other, a rather intimate, modern political slugfest. Digging them both, although I'd give the edge to CW because I prefer McNiven's art to Divito's.

Interestingly enough, both books are succeeding with conveying the sense of a real war going on, something I haven't gotten from any major event since Secret Wars.

[Sean Walsh]

The only thing I've not liked about the Annihilation/Civil War relationship is that Marvel editorial (by way of comments made by Giffen, Andy and others) is treating everything else above Annihilation.

Reed Richards? Nope. Having his dignity pillaged in Civil War.
The Shi'ar? Nope. Being decimated (kinda...I think) in Uncanny X-Men.

The one that really bugs me is this idea that JMS has loaned Silver Surfer to the Annihilation guys, and that he's going to be properly returned to JMS after the event is over.

Question: What current project is JMS using Silver Surfer in?
Answer: There isn't one. There's been some project "in the works" for a while, but no real news on that front in a few years, if not ever.

So the Silver Surfer will go back into limbo at the bequest of a guy not even writing him yet. Great.

Personally, I prefer ANNIHILATION over CIVIL WAR infinitely. Less controversy, fewer egos, way more fun. :)

[Nevets F]

I love both books, and don't see why people think they need to compete.

I love Annihilation because I have always loved the cosmic side of comics, and this is the best cosmic story ever.

I love Civil War cause, truthfully, it is the best event Marvel has ever published.

[Arilou]

I love Annihilation but getting increasingly frustrated with Civil War.

It has potential: It's a great idea, it's just that the execution sucks.

[Magneto Rocks]

Have to say Civil War, but that's because there's very few cosmic characters I'm a fan of. Annihilation is pretty good, but never great, let alone amazing. Certainly it portrays a real war great, but the run-in books were boring and bland. The actual event is much better but even then, while it really conveys the feeling of a massive intergalactic war, I just don't feel that much suspense.

[Jay]

Frankly I prefer Annihilation over Civil War and I prefer Planet Hulk over both. I don't hate Civil War, I just think it's the lesser of the three. That said, a couple things should be stated:the labeling of Annihilation as popcorn sis information that is not really needed - so is Civil War - indeed we could probably count with our 10 fingers how many storylines in the history of Marvel Comics that hasn't been popcorn. It's what they do, and essentially that's why people love them.

Secondly, I don't think anybody is arguing people (characters) can't change and can't change drastically, the single most puerile response to people who arent ready to annoint Civil War as the greatest thing since the National Football League is that they are against change, or are attached to one dimensional characterizations. What's even more laughable is that most of the times it's some 12 year old trying to tell me I don't understand how someone would react to drastic 'real' life occurences. I think Civil War is lesser because frankly I think the dialogue is atrocious; I do think the art borders on outstanding, an I have a vested distase in clones becasue I think there are a built in deus ex machina element. I think it's terrific idea and I love many of the Civil War related comics but the main series just seems so hollow to me. I was reading #4 and after reading Sue's letter I could only think on what an outstanding writer (or at least a writer writing his particular best work) could have done with such a potentially powerful moment. I think this is a terrific idea - a great event - but I'm just not hearing the quiet moments. It may work for some - good for them.

Why do I like Annihilation? The updating of the characters is just awesome (there goes the anti-new argument). I'm completely in love with redefining these characters - some of Marvels most powerful and 70's favorites - it is a true update and not a reboot. Gabriele Dell'Otto is simply a damn monster - absolutely blows me aways.

That said, I don't see the value of knocking something in the name of the greatness of something else. I'm just glad I have so many choices to take advantage of.

Regarding Silver Surfer. I have to imagine Marvel is going to keep him at least marginally in the spotlight with his upcoming movie role. It's a shame there can be a Marvel Comics and not a Silver Surfer monthly with all the crap they publish.