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gorthon616
10-16-2006, 05:19 PM
I bought the #0 reboot, and I bought the 1st 'lil mini book. The 0 made it look promising, but the first 'lil mini-book just seemed... well like early 90's cheesy comic book. Which was kinda flat to me. Is alot of the allure the nostalgia of it? I was never a big Spider-Man fan, so I doubt I would get any of that regardless. Is there something else that I'm missing here? Does it get better? I think alot of it is I simply can't stand the art too.

Siddon
10-16-2006, 05:47 PM
Its basically three books in one, Its an action throw-back to the 60's were each issue is its own story. This is not a book that does arcs rather its a book that tells stories. I think you can pick up a run at any point and read a very good little story or even a great story.

It is also a very deep story on a world where Spider-man has basically won and the world is changed for the better. All of the characters have changed a little bit while May is very different from her father. The differences may be slight but over time you see these changes are very deep and very powerful.

Finally it is an epic story there is a very strong sense of continuity where even the smaller characters have gone on a huge journey. The book is building to something huge.

Joe Acro
10-16-2006, 05:50 PM
It is also a very deep story on a world where Spider-man has basically won and the world is changed for the better.
I think there are actually only two differences between Spider-Girls Earth (Earth 982) and 616. May wasn't stillborn and Onslaught never happened. Advance to sixteen years in the future, and that's what we're reading.

BeastieRunner
10-16-2006, 05:54 PM
I think there are actually only two differences between Spider-Girls Earth (Earth 982) and 616. May wasn't stillborn and Onslaught never happened. Advance to sixteen years in the future, and that's what we're reading. And no, "Sins Past" or "The Other" right?

Right???:confused:

littleredhat
10-16-2006, 06:01 PM
Do you like fun superhero books? Ones that don't rely on shock value or massive changes in the status quo but instead use character development and interesting plots to keep you interested?

Do you like your heros to actually be nice,good people with a sense of loyalty and friendship?

Do you like the idea of characters growing up having families and passing on their traditions?

If so then spider-girl is perfect for you.


p.s the first books were published in the '90s so that is why it is like that but it has been refined quite a bit since then.

Sean Whitmore
10-16-2006, 06:47 PM
Think of the early issues as the first season of a great genre show (Buffy, Star Trek Next Generation, what have you). They're slight because they're building the world, developing the characters from scratch, finding out what works and what doesn't. It's slow, but it pays off. Now the book features a wonderfully-realized world with strong characters, an intriguing history, and fun stories. And don't mistake fun for childish...the storylines can get fairly dark and morally ambiguous...they're just still fun. :)


SEAN

Scott Taylor
10-16-2006, 10:18 PM
While I like all the stuff said above about the series - the nostalgia, the fact that its not dark, the characterizations, the overarching plot - another big thing I like about it is that the Spider Girl universe operates at a much lower power level than the 616. Most all of the big, heavy hitters are retired, dead or old. There was a really great sequence of issues when Spider Girl lost her powers, and DeFalco took the opportunity to show that she still had the heroic stuff, and she actually held her own pretty good with it (borrowing the green goblin's stuff for some of the time - long story). The lower power level may not seem like a plus, but personally I get tired of the huge gap between normals and supers, and this series provides a little bit of a different angle.

bulbasteve
10-17-2006, 12:18 AM
Some more points:

1. An actual supporting cast, who get real screentime. And heck when they don't it is part of the story with May spending too much time in-costume and not being there for her friends.

2. The reboot isn't just there to get more sales, there will be some changes to the story and presentation. For example it seems they are stopping the 2nd person narration and going to 1st person.

3. Female characters who don't dress like total whores *cough* like every other comic *cough*

4. Very grounded and role modely plots, like a recent long running plot thread on domestic abuse that got resolved recently in a very good and not too soap boxy issue.

5. A single creative team, so no plot goes unresolved, and not a lazy team which only does 6 issue arcs which could be told in 3 either.

Arilou
10-17-2006, 01:12 AM
Most of all, it's the title of all the spider-man titles that feels the most like Spider-man.

Crimson
10-17-2006, 01:58 AM
I think there are actually only two differences between Spider-Girls Earth (Earth 982) and 616. May wasn't stillborn and Onslaught never happened. Advance to sixteen years in the future, and that's what we're reading.

Onslaught happened.

That's why Uncle Phil gave up being the Green Goblin, and I assume why we haven't seen Xavier ever. Plus the Clone Saga ended after Onslaught

The little book contains stuff printed in the 90s so it may remind you of stuff like that. I say give the new book a try. It's a great book but we've had hundreds of these topics trying to get people to get the book... try it! Everyone I've spoken to who've actually tried it seem to like it.

Joe Acro
10-17-2006, 05:51 AM
For example it seems they are stopping the 2nd person narration and going to 1st person.I'm not sure how I feel about this. It was a nice unique factor, but I'm not sure if it added anything. I guess I'll know for sure when I read the new issue.


Most of all, it's the title of all the spider-man titles that feels the most like Spider-man.
That is the truest thing I've read in a few days.


Onslaught happened.

That's why Uncle Phil gave up being the Green Goblin, and I assume why we haven't seen Xavier ever. Plus the Clone Saga ended after Onslaught

Onslaught not happening helped me explain some of the discrepancies between the universes, though I can't remember what they were exactly at the time. Assuming I'm right, it could be that Uncle Phil gave up the mantle anyway and that Xavier has died by this point. He can't live forever. And I'm not sure if the Clone Saga has much to do with Onslaught or not.

RedShark92
10-17-2006, 06:54 AM
Hmmm.

Hearing that the Kingsley Hobgoblin is being set up to be a major villain in this series is enough to make me consider it, regardless of anything else.

Chris S.
10-17-2006, 07:14 AM
Honestly I wouldn't sell you on it. I read almost the entire first run of the book. There were some great things about it, but it got to be really repetitive in my opinion. It was this constant back and fourth relationship with May and Peter that carried so many stories. Many of the villains were great, but then they had some horrible ones. The romance between Normie and May had never gone anywhere, but drove the books for like 30 issues or more. I never liked the third person narrative that it featured. I always thought of it like it was May talking about herself in the third person. Someone said they were changing this so that kinda intrigues me a little I guess.

I don't know. I had so many mixed feelings about this book. I think why I decided to stop reading it was because I never really looked forward to the next book. It was like something I read, but never got excited about. It was always consistent. I like a book's up and downs every once in awhile, its just the long downs that bother me. This books never had any long ups or downs.

I will most likely give the new relaunch a shot though. I just resubscribed to my books and I sat trying to decide if i wanted to give it a chance. I would say for nothing more pick up issue one. See what you think because everything everyone has said before about it is true.

Joe Acro
10-17-2006, 08:02 AM
I never liked the third person narrative that it featured. I always thought of it like it was May talking about herself in the third person.
As stated, it was second person, hence the use of "you" every issue.

Alan2099
10-17-2006, 08:59 AM
Also, teenagers in that book tend to act a lot more like teenagers rather than the drama machines you see in the Ultimate books.

gorthon616
10-17-2006, 10:30 AM
Most of all, it's the title of all the spider-man titles that feels the most like Spider-man.

This was actually the main reason why I wanted to give it a go. I'm just looking for a Spider-Man book, and as far as that goes it seems to be the best fit.

Tater
10-17-2006, 02:33 PM
I'm actually interested in the story. But the art doesn't suit me. Is that changing soon. Or are they keeping it?

gorthon616
10-18-2006, 11:11 AM
I'm actually interested in the story. But the art doesn't suit me. Is that changing soon. Or are they keeping it?

Yeah, I'm thinking a big part of what I dislike is the art. But I haven't heard any thing about artists changing.

brian2322
10-18-2006, 12:09 PM
Also, teenagers in that book tend to act a lot more like teenagers rather than the drama machines you see in the Ultimate books.

actually no they dont. Real teenagers tend to act the way the Ultimate books portray them. Teenagers in this book seem like they belong on a PBS show. This was one major deterent for me, i cant relate to these characters.

Beacon
10-18-2006, 02:25 PM
And no, "Sins Past" or "The Other" right?

Right???:confused:

Right, Gathering of the Five and the Final Chapter happened differently in MC2 (Norman died, Peter lost a leg, Aunt May stayed dead, Kaine brought baby May back) so, as a result, Spider-Man retired and nothing from the reboot on happened at all.

bulbasteve
10-18-2006, 02:29 PM
actually no they dont. Real teenagers tend to act the way the Ultimate books portray them. Teenagers in this book seem like they belong on a PBS show. This was one major deterent for me, i cant relate to these characters.

Has the world changed so much in the 4 years since I have been a teenager?

El Santo
10-18-2006, 02:29 PM
Do you like fun superhero books? Ones that don't rely on shock value or massive changes in the status quo but instead use character development and interesting plots to keep you interested?
Not for nothing, but you can't have character development without changes to the status quo. And why is it that people tend to label changes they like as "good character development" and changes they don't as "shock value", while there is often little difference between the two other than popularity?


Do you like your heros to actually be nice,good people with a sense of loyalty and friendship?

Didn't "Normie" Osborn spend an entire issue torturing May while she was tied to a chair? And isn't he one of the "heroes" in the book?

Sean Whitmore
10-18-2006, 04:00 PM
actually no they dont. Real teenagers tend to act the way the Ultimate books portray them. Teenagers in this book seem like they belong on a PBS show. This was one major deterent for me, i cant relate to these characters.


While I don't find it to be a deterrent for me, I do agree that they're the typical PG-rated, Archie-type teenagers you find in most comics and shows. Ultimate Spidey get a little closer to nailing real teens, even if they do go overboard on the oh-so-clever witticisms and the Yiddish.


SEAN

Sean Whitmore
10-18-2006, 04:04 PM
And why is it that people tend to label changes they like as "good character development" and changes they don't as "shock value", while there is often little difference between the two other than popularity?


Welcome to the world of comic books fans, hope you enjoy your stay. :)



Didn't "Normie" Osborn spend an entire issue torturing May while she was tied to a chair? And isn't he one of the "heroes" in the book?


Well, obviously, he wasn't a hero at that point.


SEAN

El Santo
10-18-2006, 05:21 PM
Well, obviously, he wasn't a hero at that point.


SEAN

My point is that DeFalco's writing really isn't that much more "shiny", "positive" or "four-color" than, say, Straczinsky or PAD's. And his habit of writing her captions in the second-person really pissed me off every time I tried to read the old book. I'm glad he 's gone back to first-person, and I love the idea of Marvel having a universe where time actually moves forward, but I have a hard time justifying the purchase of the book for myself.

Joe Acro
10-18-2006, 05:26 PM
...I love the idea of Marvel having a universe where time actually moves forward...
Time moves forward at the same pace, just in a different period.

JamesD
10-18-2006, 05:43 PM
Several people have hit on the flaws with this comic but inspite of them I love the character. I'd say it's very good but it needs a little something to make it great. It is a bit old school so that may be good or bad depending on what you like.

One thing I like about Ultimate Spider-Man that is missing in Spider-Girl that I haven't seen mentioned is humor.
I don't think there's anything in Spider-Girl that compares with the scene where Peter tells MJ he's Spider-Man or where MJ tells Peter to go do his Spidy thing and then says "My boyfriend's gonna kick your buuuuuuu-uuuutt" while watching what happens on TV.

Sean Whitmore
10-18-2006, 06:23 PM
My point is that DeFalco's writing really isn't that much more "shiny", "positive" or "four-color" than, say, Straczinsky or PAD's.


Sure it is (well, not more than PAD's Marvel Adventures, obviously). You picked one instance from a run of 100 issues.

I'm not saying Defalco is writing 1960 Silver Age DC stuff, far from it. The book has its dark stories and its gloomy periods. They're just few and far between, and people seem to appreciate it.


SEAN

Beacon
10-18-2006, 06:36 PM
Of course we do. The darkness MEANS something when you have some light to counter it. When it's nothing be doom and gloom you stop caring.

El Santo
10-18-2006, 06:48 PM
Sure it is (well, not more than PAD's Marvel Adventures, obviously). You picked one instance from a run of 100 issues.

...so are the people who claim Amazing/Ultimate/Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man are ultra-violent, gloomy, and depressing. How is Spider-Man having his leg severed, turning into Venom, and nearly killing his own daughter more "silver age" or "lighter" than Spider-Man finding himself trapped between Iron Man and Captain America in a superhero civil war?


I'm not saying Defalco is writing 1960 Silver Age DC stuff, far from it. The book has its dark stories and its gloomy periods. They're just few and far between, and people seem to appreciate it.


SEAN
I don't see what the contrast is here. Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man is consistently funny, and so is Ultimate Spider-Man. Amazing has a somewhat more serious tone, but Peter is still cracking jokes. And for all the crap Straczinsky takes for Sins Past, why does everyone forget that the whole Clone Saga crap is DeFalco's fault?

Alan2099
10-18-2006, 06:56 PM
How is Spider-Man having his leg severed, turning into Venom, and nearly killing his own daughter more "silver age" or "lighter" than Spider-Man finding himself trapped between Iron Man and Captain America in a superhero civil war?
because it doesn't linger on it. It's just something that happened. Peter got his "war injure" years ago. It's old news for him and the Venom thing was done and over with pretty quick without them stressing the psychological terror or anything.

Venom was simply written as a typical super villian rather than as a mass murderer or a ruthless amoral killer or anything to that effect.

Sean Whitmore
10-18-2006, 07:01 PM
How is Spider-Man having his leg severed, turning into Venom, and nearly killing his own daughter more "silver age" or "lighter" than Spider-Man finding himself trapped between Iron Man and Captain America in a superhero civil war?

Here's why:

Like Alan said, Peter losing his leg was something that happened in the past of the book, during the "dark days" when so many heroes died. And he was taken over by the Venom symbiote for all of one issue. Like a billion other stories where a hero's loved one is possessed by a bad guy.



And for all the crap Straczinsky takes for Sins Past, why does everyone forget that the whole Clone Saga crap is DeFalco's fault?

Because it's irrelevant to what we're discussing right now, maybe? Which is that we're enjoying what he's currently writing, not what he wrote over a decade ago.

You've got this weird idea that praising Spider-Girl is the same thing as insulting the regular Spidey books. I read the main titles, and I love the main titles. Defending them to me couldn't be a bigger waste of your time.


SEAN

Blight
10-18-2006, 11:14 PM
...so are the people who claim Amazing/Ultimate/Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man are ultra-violent, gloomy, and depressing. How is Spider-Man having his leg severed, turning into Venom, and nearly killing his own daughter more "silver age" or "lighter" than Spider-Man finding himself trapped between Iron Man and Captain America in a superhero civil war?


I don't see what the contrast is here. Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man is consistently funny, and so is Ultimate Spider-Man. Amazing has a somewhat more serious tone, but Peter is still cracking jokes. And for all the crap Straczinsky takes for Sins Past, why does everyone forget that the whole Clone Saga crap is DeFalco's fault?

It just isn't all DeFalco's fault. He did have a hand in it but wasn't the sole person behind it. Um what about Howard Mackie? Or even a writer Spidey fans consider the very best JM Demattis (if I slaughtered this name grammatically sorry).

Still, DeFalco uses some of the best things about the Clone Saga (Peter and MJ having a kid, Kaine, Lady Ock, and the Scarlet Spider) and works with them.

To answer there had to be a reason why Peter finally gave up being Spidey. Tom pretty much alludes that he had one final fight with the Green Goblin that cost Norman his life and Peter lost a leg from it.

Also the Venom Saga in Spider-Girl was a very big thing from beginning to the very end of the series. In this universe the symbiote only knew violence and hatred of one person (Peter). The ending DeFalco gave it was very fitting.

Plus another great reason to pick up this book is their using probably the most little used but sorely missed Spidey Rogue (been almost ten years since his last 616 which is a freaking crime considering how much Norman Osborn been appearing since then), the original Hobgoblin. DeFalco during the last remaining issues of the last series and in this current run has made the Hobgoblin #1 on Spider-Girl's Rogues.

Also I admit the art when I first bought the book I sort of detested. There are certain things I don't think Frenz draws well. But there's one sort of character Frenz draws great and those are the Goblins.

In those final issues when May fought Hobgoblin I felt I was in 1980s reading this tale. Frenz draws the Hobgoblin that great.

gorthon616
10-19-2006, 07:19 AM
actually no they dont. Real teenagers tend to act the way the Ultimate books portray them. Teenagers in this book seem like they belong on a PBS show. This was one major deterent for me, i cant relate to these characters.

Some do. Some don't. Not everyone acts like "Ultimate" teenagers. In fact, I'd say that the majority don't act that way, it's only that the majority of portrays of teenagers in the media are in the ultimate vein.

Beacon
10-19-2006, 08:17 AM
It just isn't all DeFalco's fault. He did have a hand in it but wasn't the sole person behind it. Um what about Howard Mackie? Or even a writer Spidey fans consider the very best JM Demattis (if I slaughtered this name grammatically sorry).

How are any of those people responsible for editorial decisions relating to Terry Kavanagh’s idea to revive Gerry Conway’s concept?

brian2322
10-21-2006, 09:01 AM
Some do. Some don't. Not everyone acts like "Ultimate" teenagers. In fact, I'd say that the majority don't act that way, it's only that the majority of portrays of teenagers in the media are in the ultimate vein.


i didnt say all teenagers act in the ultimate vein. i meant they act closer the ultimate characters than the spidergirl ones. Im not baseing this off of the media i baseing this from being an actual teenager.

bulbasteve
10-22-2006, 09:49 PM
i didnt say all teenagers act in the ultimate vein. i meant they act closer the ultimate characters than the spidergirl ones. Im not baseing this off of the media i baseing this from being an actual teenager.

Man I wish there were more midriffs when I went to highschool, lucky guy.

becominAfanAgain
10-23-2006, 03:08 PM
MAN,

I feel OLD....(referring to the statements about ultimate teens and the ASG teens)

But anyway this book is a good read to me it has an old school feel to it. It's like I'm reading the original Amazing Spider-man again. After reading ASG#1 they did switch the point of view which makes the story flow a little better. It's a great change of pace and a great read. Love the book so far.

Oh yeah stop hating on DeFalco I like his work. For every 1 playa there are 2 hater... pimpology101

gorthon616
10-23-2006, 03:24 PM
i didnt say all teenagers act in the ultimate vein. i meant they act closer the ultimate characters than the spidergirl ones. Im not baseing this off of the media i baseing this from being an actual teenager.

didn't mean to say you did, nor did I. but honestly, I think you're wrong on saying that teenagers are more like ultimate teenagers rather than spider-girl teenagers. of course, being a teenager you're in a prime position to disagree, but i'm honestly not that far out of that world myself. though maybe things *have* changed that much in four years. I doubt it, but it's possible.

in any case my main point was (even if you disagree with me about whether or not they are the majority or not) that your statement

Teenagers in this book seem like they belong on a PBS show.
is off. it's only the media and popular conception that the only teenagers who act that way are, as you say, "on PBS". nope, they are there. and i don't think you should be so dismissive of their presence. perhaps you don't relate to them, but that doesn't change the fact.

brian2322
10-23-2006, 03:36 PM
didn't mean to say you did, nor did I. but honestly, I think you're wrong on saying that teenagers are more like ultimate teenagers rather than spider-girl teenagers. of course, being a teenager you're in a prime position to disagree, but i'm honestly not that far out of that world myself. though maybe things *have* changed that much in four years. I doubt it, but it's possible.

in any case my main point was (even if you disagree with me about whether or not they are the majority or not) that your statement

is off. it's only the media and popular conception that the only teenagers who act that way are, as you say, "on PBS". nope, they are there. and i don't think you should be so dismissive of their presence. perhaps you don't relate to them, but that doesn't change the fact.


touche point taken

Sean Whitmore
10-23-2006, 03:48 PM
Much as I love Spider-Girl, I'd say it's an entirely valid criticism that Defalco doesn't write teenagers very realistically. (Of course, who says he's even trying to? The Marvel Universe is a melodramatic place)

"Simone DeSantos!!! Your timely arrival is a bit too coincidental to be a coincidence!"

"Are you making an accusation, Miss Duran?"

Maybe in an episode of Columbo, it's natural to talk like that. In a high school setting, not so much.


SEAN

Alan2099
10-23-2006, 04:16 PM
Of course on the flip side you have the dailog that goes ...

...umm...

Like that?

yeah. Like that.

So you have the dialog that goes like that.

yeah, pretty much.

cool.

Isn't it?

Sean Whitmore
10-23-2006, 04:19 PM
Of course on the flip side you have the dailog that goes ...

...umm...

Like that?

yeah. Like that.

So you have the dialog that goes like that.

yeah, pretty much.

cool.

Isn't it?


I'm just saying, you sit at the food court in the mall, and you'll overhear something that sounds closer to that conversation than anything else. :)


SEAN

gorthon616
10-23-2006, 04:27 PM
I'm just saying, you sit at the food court in the mall, and you'll overhear something that sounds closer to that conversation than anything else. :)


SEAN

True. But then not all teenagers are the gossiping at the food court type teenager. I'd say that they (Ultimate books and SG) each characterize certain teens well, but it's really moot to try and classify all or a majority of them one way or another. Heck, I don't even think a teenager could tell you what a "teenager" is. That's sorta part of being a teenager.

At least it was when I was a teen.

Sean Whitmore
10-23-2006, 04:32 PM
True. But then not all teenagers are the gossiping at the food court type teenager. I'd say that they (Ultimate books and SM) each characterize certain teens well, but it's really moot to try and classify all or a majority of them one way or another. Heck, I don't even think a teenager could tell you what a "teenager" is. That's sorta part of being a teenager.

At least it was when I was a teen.


Also a very valid point.


SEAN

Edward J Cunningham
10-23-2006, 04:38 PM
I think there are actually only two differences between Spider-Girls Earth (Earth 982) and 616. May wasn't stillborn and Onslaught never happened. Advance to sixteen years in the future, and that's what we're reading.

In the current universe, Mayday was not stillborn. Mary Jane and Peter were TOLD the baby was stillborn, but in fact she was kidnapped by Norman Osborne. And by order of Joe Quesada himself, Peter's daughter is never supposed to be referenced again in the 616 Marvel Universe.

Venom
10-24-2006, 04:45 AM
I feel OLD....(referring to the statements about ultimate teens and the ASG teens)

I know how you feel mate. When Spider-Girl first started I was a few years younger than Mayday. Now I'm a couple of years older than her.

RedShark92
10-24-2006, 06:22 AM
I know how you feel mate. When Spider-Girl first started I was a few years younger than Mayday. Now I'm a couple of years older than her.

Get used to it, it doesn't stop. ;)

To the topic at hand, I think Hobby is a great selling point. I hadn’t really given this character a second thought or glance, through her original run and it was only when I was told Hobby was introduced in the end of the first series, to continue on as a main villain in the new series that I got interested enough in the book to try it out.

He’s a classic, and, most importantly, under-used Spider-villain finally being put to good use again. A hero is only as good as her villains…

I picked up the first issue on a lark and decided to add the book to my pull list.

Alan2099
10-24-2006, 01:54 PM
I know how you feel mate. When Spider-Girl first started I was a few years younger than Mayday. Now I'm a couple of years older than her.
Could be worse. When i got into comics, I was Jubilee's age. Now I'm about the same age as Spider-man.