View Full Version : January Solicits
Magneto Rocks
10-15-2006, 11:28 AM
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Jan07/solicitations.html
News!
(Spoilers ahead!)
42 IS in the negative Zone!
Black Panther joins Cap!
Sentry has a part to play!
New january previews up now! Stop reading and go!
More in-Depth:
It seems, as suspected, that Black Panther, Storm and the Punisher all decide to join Cap's side- but Punisher fights Cap! The Sentry is part of 'The Return', and the other hero appears to be from within 42, which is in the Negative Zone.
No covers or news for ASM or Civil War #7
ALSO, BIG NEWS:
There is a NEW SHIELD DIRECTOR!
Cayman
10-15-2006, 11:29 AM
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Jan07/solicitations.html
News!
(Spoilers ahead!)
42 IS in the negative Zone!
Black Panther joins Cap!
Sentry has a part to play!
New january previews up now! Stop reading and go!
Didn't Tigra start off on the pro-Reg side?
Expletive Deleted
10-15-2006, 11:34 AM
So it's Captain Marvel, then.
Magneto Rocks
10-15-2006, 11:35 AM
Probably, but why would he be in 42?
Seems Maria Hill loses her job!
EDIT: And yeah, I thought Tigra was pro-reg!
Expletive Deleted
10-15-2006, 11:40 AM
Probably, but why would he be in 42?He wouldn't, but there are plenty of reasons he could be in the Negative Zone.
Cayman
10-15-2006, 11:41 AM
Maybe he's one of Tony's clones.
Magneto Rocks
10-15-2006, 11:41 AM
He wouldn't, but there are plenty of reasons he could be in the Negative Zone.
Yes, but the source says 'The walls of 42 are pulled back to reveal'....
So I don't get it....
Miss Kitty Fantastico
10-15-2006, 11:42 AM
Seems Maria Hill loses her job!
Darnit. Oh well, if she needs a place to stay for a while, I have a room to spare... :rolleyes:
scouse mouse
10-15-2006, 11:52 AM
Didn't Tigra start off on the pro-Reg side?
Maybe she has been a spy for the anti reg heroes all along?
So has Maria Hill had the job of SHIELD director long enough that she's no longer considered the "new" director of SHIELD? Though given how Civil War is turning out, I wouldn't at all be suprised if she wasn't killed off or fired. But she is a good character.
The hero coming out of the negative zone sounds interesting. I presume it's not someone in the prison since they would obviously know what's going on if they were recently put in there.
Maybe it's one of the Annihilation heroes... given what they are dealing with, it's not shocking that they might find themselves in the negative zone and just happen to stumble on the prison. Though the statement about them coming out of the walls of 42 are weird.
Panther siding with Cap isn't terribly shocking.... and that's HUGE as far as resources go depending on how much help Panther is willing to give (I would imagine there would be some severe limits given the diplomatic nature of the situation).
Tigra seems kinda out of the blue though. But Tony and Cap did mention a lot of heroes changing sides after the Thor clone killed Goliath.
And boy, they're not shy at all about the spoilers in those things are they.
Isn't that Maria Hill on the cover of She-Hulk #15? The skull earings (or the silhouetted scorpion tales behind her), aren't saying anything.
TheCrow13
10-15-2006, 12:20 PM
6 actual civil war titles.....if there gunna draw it out should atleast give us meaningfull titles.
Kevinroc
10-15-2006, 12:22 PM
Maybe the Tigra thing on the cover of Panther is just an artistic choice and doesn't actually reflect the story. Like how the first Frontline cover depicted Black Goliath on Iron Man's side but he was on Cap's in the story.
Or maybe it's true. Who knows.
stillanerd
10-15-2006, 12:51 PM
Considering how She-Hulk #15 is supposed to be taking place after Civil War, I go out on a limb and suggest that the "New" S.H.I.E.L.D. director (unless Marvel is STILL calling Maria Hill that) is going to be Nick Fury, who is offered his old job back after bad PR from her mishandling of the Secret Avengers, the New Thunderbolts going out of control and the Atlantis Invasion demonstrated her "lack of experience" and her "incompetance" and they need a "seasoned pro." It would also indicate that while superhero registration is still the law of the land, Iron Man side will technically lose because his action have worsened the situation, not less, meaning that Iron Man's team of Avengers are "relocated" to another state so he won't be such a figurehead (it would also mean Cap will probably be heading a Avengers team under Fury's supervision).
And it looks like with Black Panther and Storm coming to Cap's aid, it seems the idea of them leading a new Fantastic Four may not be so far fetched, considering how I think Reed is not going to come out of Civil War all that well and probably be imprisioned, especially if he had anything to do with monkeying around with the Thunderbolts nanocites. Oh, and it's not so shocking that Tigra might have gone over to the anti-regs. She did question Stark about whether Cap's bunch was regarded as Tony's group of unfit heroes back in Civil War #2, so Golitah's death may have solidified her feelings that Iron Man's bunch is far more dangerous than the supers they're apprehending.
As for the Return, I believe that 42 is actually the designation of the hero who is trapped in the Negative Zone and not an actual place. And considering the cover, I'm guessing that it will be Captain Marvel, or rather his clone. Considering Reed's dabbling with the Thor clone, I imagine that it will be revealed that he also cloned Mar-Vell right after he died, but placed him in the negative zone because he was either too "independent" or not fully developed.
NickThompson
10-15-2006, 01:46 PM
Is it me, or are those solicits a lot more spoiler-y than normal?
Magneto Rocks
10-15-2006, 01:49 PM
Considering how She-Hulk #15 is supposed to be taking place after Civil War, I go out on a limb and suggest that the "New" S.H.I.E.L.D. director (unless Marvel is STILL calling Maria Hill that) is going to be Nick Fury, who is offered his old job back after bad PR from her mishandling of the Secret Avengers, the New Thunderbolts going out of control and the Atlantis Invasion demonstrated her "lack of experience" and her "incompetance" and they need a "seasoned pro." It would also indicate that while superhero registration is still the law of the land, Iron Man side will technically lose because his action have worsened the situation, not less, meaning that Iron Man's team of Avengers are "relocated" to another state so he won't be such a figurehead (it would also mean Cap will probably be heading a Avengers team under Fury's supervision).
And it looks like with Black Panther and Storm coming to Cap's aid, it seems the idea of them leading a new Fantastic Four may not be so far fetched, considering how I think Reed is not going to come out of Civil War all that well and probably be imprisioned, especially if he had anything to do with monkeying around with the Thunderbolts nanocites. Oh, and it's not so shocking that Tigra might have gone over to the anti-regs. She did question Stark about whether Cap's bunch was regarded as Tony's group of unfit heroes back in Civil War #2, so Golitah's death may have solidified her feelings that Iron Man's bunch is far more dangerous than the supers they're apprehending.
As for the Return, I believe that 42 is actually the designation of the hero who is trapped in the Negative Zone and not an actual place. And considering the cover, I'm guessing that it will be Captain Marvel, or rather his clone. Considering Reed's dabbling with the Thor clone, I imagine that it will be revealed that he also cloned Mar-Vell right after he died, but placed him in the negative zone because he was either too "independent" or not fully developed.
Heh, nice try. If the SHRA is the law of the land, than Iron Man wins, period. He doesn't care if he himself dies or is shunted into obscurity and reviled, if the SHRA is the law, he got what he wanted.
Also, I thought all Tigra said was to ask which one Cap was when Iron Man said his side were wannabes and amateurs. So either what you're saying is a staggering overreaction or else she said something else. (In which case I apologize)
42 has been stated numerous times- including by a 'Story So Far' page, as being a way of keeping the heroes incarcerated.
Heh, nice try. If the SHRA is the law of the land, than Iron Man wins, period. He doesn't care if he himself dies or is shunted into obscurity and reviled, if the SHRA is the law, he got what he wanted.
Also, I thought all Tigra said was to ask which one Cap was when Iron Man said his side were wannabes and amateurs. So either what you're saying is a staggering overreaction or else she said something else. (In which case I apologize)
42 has been stated numerous times- including by a 'Story So Far' page, as being a way of keeping the heroes incarcerated.
Well, it's really not that simple. For Iron Man superhero registration was reallythe tip of the iceberg... in fact, initially he wasn't even for hero registration. More than anything, it was an opportunity for him to try and initiate a lot of changes that actually had very little to do with superhero registration.
I think Iron Man has a lot of lose even if the registration survives. And I'm not just talking about his popularity or even his life (though I do believe he cares about both). He seemingly has a very broad agenda. And I'd be suprised if it survives completely intact... though we'll see.
In regards to Tigra, all the poster said was it wasn't shocking she switched sides. And really it wasn't. Tony did say people were switching sides, and Tigra had already voiced some doubts so it doesn't fall into the "shocking" category that she might be one of those Tony mentioned jumping ship.
Bobster777
10-15-2006, 02:56 PM
I know CW 7 is coming out, but i'm more excited for CW the Return. Could this be finally the return of the original Thor? I hope so.
genesis
10-15-2006, 03:55 PM
It seems like Tony's side wins because of the solicit for the thunderbolts says that they are the newest celebrities. So if he doesnt then that doesnt seem to make much sense. Also i believe that peter parker may not be spidey when all is said and done or he is on the run and is using his black suit to hide his identity.
The Purple Skull
10-15-2006, 04:09 PM
I'm gonna guess that Colonel Blake (the character mentioned in the Director's Cut issue) will be the new head of SHIELD.
It seems like Tony's side wins because of the solicit for the thunderbolts says that they are the newest celebrities. So if he doesnt then that doesnt seem to make much sense.
Honestly I can't see how it makes sense that Green Goblin, Venom, and Bulleyes can be seen as seen as celebrities regardless of who wins.
Mothmonsterman
10-15-2006, 04:11 PM
Didn't Tigra start off on the pro-Reg side?
Yeah, but she's black.
You really think Hudlin is going to let a black character be pro-reg? No way. Because slavery. Or something.
Kirayoshi
10-15-2006, 04:13 PM
Heh, nice try. If the SHRA is the law of the land, than Iron Man wins, period. He doesn't care if he himself dies or is shunted into obscurity and reviled, if the SHRA is the law, he got what he wanted.
More than likely, SHRA will still be law at the end of the series, but I increasingly suspect that the wording will be tightened and the more unconstitutional elements(forced conscription into SHIELD, the Negative Zone prison, no representation for captured unregistered heroes, that sort of thing) will be eliminated. Since Tony supported these unconstitutional acts, I suspect that he's about to become the least popular person in the MU for quite some time. Maybe James Rhodes will become Iron Man again for a stint.
Yeah, but she's black.
You really think Hudlin is going to let a black character be pro-reg? No way. Because slavery. Or something.
I think Tigra is actually white... but maybe Hudlin doesn't know that.
Cthulhudrew
10-15-2006, 04:20 PM
Yeah, but she's black.
You really think Hudlin is going to let a black character be pro-reg? No way. Because slavery. Or something.
Tigra's white. She has black stripes, but underneath all that fur, she's a white girl. Always has been.
Tigra's white. She has black stripes, but underneath all that fur, she's a white girl. Always has been.
I guess if you're Hudlin and you see the black and orange fur, it's enough of a reason to consider her a person of color.
stillanerd
10-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Heh, nice try. If the SHRA is the law of the land, than Iron Man wins, period. He doesn't care if he himself dies or is shunted into obscurity and reviled, if the SHRA is the law, he got what he wanted.
First of all, Tony Stark was OPPOSED to the Registration Act AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS and even stated this in the Civil War Files issue. To him, registration is just a means to an end towards his master plan that he proposed during the Illuminati--having a nationwide organization of superheroes to protect Earth from any global threats, hence the "50 state inititive," and has stated that the "initive" is actually better than the registration act as it currently stands it ratified to reflect that inititive.
Second, the way things have been shaping up in Civil War pretty much hints that the mini is kind of tragedy: the king (Iron Man) wanting to do good for his country (the United States) in the wake of a tragedy (the Riverbank Massacre) proposes laws (the SHRA) to prevent future tragedies only ends up creating the very tragedy he so desperately tried to avoid. It seems pretty evident that his hiring supervillains, cloning Thor, and creating an interdimensional gulag is going to blow up in Iron Man's face, especially if, as it's been hinted, Namor leads his fellow Atlantians an invasion against the US. Who do you think is going to be the scapegoat when that happens? Iron Man. The public has been told registration would protect people from future attacks from superbeings, and considering that Iron Man is the figurehead of Registration, the government will put all the blame on him to avoid getting blamed themselves, but, since they still see him as a valuable asset, will shuffle him and some of his colleagues of it some "quiet" place so he won't "embarass" them further. He of course will protest by saying "I did what I had to do to save lives," to which the response by Cap, Fury, etc. will be "No, you did what you had to do to save yourself." And guess who will come to the rescue during that Atlantean invasion? Why Captain America and his merry band of unregistered "criminals." As a result, Cap won't have to serve jail time (not exactly good PR that the "sentinel of liberty" is regarded as a "local-terrorist") but rather be sentenced to "public service" by leading another group of Avengers under S.H.I.E.L.D.s supervision. Bendis even stated in Wizard about Mighty Avengers and New Avengers that both teams could have members from both sides of Civil War on the same team, implying not only registration still passes, but that some of those on Cap's side will be assigned to those teams rather than face jail time. Seems to me that indicates that "42" (and I stand corrected if that is what the gulag in the negative zone is called) will probably be reworked as well to make it more "media friendly."
So in terms of the actual fighting, I'm going out on a limb to say Caps side will win, but because registration is still the law of the land and since neither side got what they really wanted, nobody "wins."
Well, it's really not that simple. For Iron Man superhero registration was reallythe tip of the iceberg... in fact, initially he wasn't even for hero registration. More than anything, it was an opportunity for him to try and initiate a lot of changes that actually had very little to do with superhero registration.
I think Iron Man has a lot of lose even if the registration survives. And I'm not just talking about his popularity or even his life (though I do believe he cares about both). He seemingly has a very broad agenda. And I'd be suprised if it survives completely intact... though we'll see.
In regards to Tigra, all the poster said was it wasn't shocking she switched sides. And really it wasn't. Tony did say people were switching sides, and Tigra had already voiced some doubts so it doesn't fall into the "shocking" category that she might be one of those Tony mentioned jumping ship.
Excatly.
More than likely, SHRA will still be law at the end of the series, but I increasingly suspect that the wording will be tightened and the more unconstitutional elements(forced conscription into SHIELD, the Negative Zone prison, no representation for captured unregistered heroes, that sort of thing) will be eliminated. Since Tony supported these unconstitutional acts, I suspect that he's about to become the least popular person in the MU for quite some time.
That's pretty much how I see things shaping up, with the Atlantian invasion being the excuse needed for the government to demote Iron Man as the registration act's figurehead.
Nevets F
10-15-2006, 05:22 PM
Yeah, but she's black.
You really think Hudlin is going to let a black character be pro-reg? No way. Because slavery. Or something.
....Tigra, Greer Nelson, is white. Always has been.
It didn't sound like they were spoiling a new SHIELD director, to me. I think they're just referring to Maria Hill, but I wouldn't be surprised if she does get replaced. I'll miss her though. Maybe that SHIELD guy on the cover is supposed to be the new one.
Conn Seanery
10-15-2006, 06:01 PM
Isn't Hill's position a temporary appointment? Maybe they make it official and give her the job.
Isn't Hill's position a temporary appointment? Maybe they make it official and give her the job.
I beleive that's the case, and they're actually still useing a Nick Fury LMD publically. But yeah, it could be as simple as them officially and publically naming Hill director of SHIELD. That would explain why marvel would shameless "spoil" it.
DattaBoy
10-15-2006, 06:15 PM
Yeah, but she's black.
You really think Hudlin is going to let a black character be pro-reg? No way. Because slavery. Or something.
Hold on there what makes you think Hudlin has control over Marvels' black characters I mean Mark Millar and BMB have had more control over the majority of them then Hudlin. Besides Bishop is pro reg and he's black.
genesis
10-15-2006, 07:28 PM
Honestly I can't see how it makes sense that Green Goblin, Venom, and Bulleyes can be seen as seen as celebrities regardless of who wins.
Unless they bring in somebody big that the public dislikes. 1) It could be that they nab a big anti-reg either Cap or more likely Spidey. 2) Once people realize what Tony is actually doing they could turn on him and bring him in to custody leading to a new Iron man as was suggested in an article in Wizard.
RonnieThunderbolts
10-15-2006, 10:19 PM
Yeah, but she's black.
You really think Hudlin is going to let a black character be pro-reg? No way. Because slavery. Or something.
Tigra isn't black. What are you talking about?
AllisterH
10-15-2006, 11:41 PM
The problem I have with Black Panther being anti-reg is I honestly can't see it in Panther's history.
This is the guy who joined the Avengers to spy on them to see if they were a threat to Wakanda. As well, this is a guy who i can't see allowing vigilantism in his own country. Its one thing to have people playing good samaritan but I doubt the panther would allow a Spider-man to run around in his own country without him knowing who it was. That's just not the Panther I envision.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to know that T'challa knew the secret identity of any costumed hero that he interacts with him. Anything that can affect the security of Wakanda and he's finding out all about it yet he has a problem with the US government wanting to know the same thing?
Why would he be anti-reg? This could have been a good conflict between the newlyweds as again, marvel writers fail to address the actual good points registration has. It also ignores the fact that vigilantism in our world (USA at least ) was most closely associated with the KKK and the lynchings of black men based on trumped up charges so why would a black man automatically side with the anti-registration side.
The problem I have with Black Panther being anti-reg is I honestly can't see it in Panther's history.
This is the guy who joined the Avengers to spy on them to see if they were a threat to Wakanda. As well, this is a guy who i can't see allowing vigilantism in his own country. Its one thing to have people playing good samaritan but I doubt the panther would allow a Spider-man to run around in his own country without him knowing who it was. That's just not the Panther I envision.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to know that T'challa knew the secret identity of any costumed hero that he interacts with him. Anything that can affect the security of Wakanda and he's finding out all about it yet he has a problem with the US government wanting to know the same thing?
Why would he be anti-reg? This could have been a good conflict between the newlyweds as again, marvel writers fail to address the actual good points registration has. It also ignores the fact that vigilantism in our world (USA at least ) was most closely associated with the KKK and the lynchings of black men based on trumped up charges so why would a black man automatically side with the anti-registration side.
Think of it from another perspective though.
SHIELD despite being a UN organization is basically falling under US control. SHIELD is also being seen as corrupt lately, yet is basically gaining control of the most powerful force on the earth (the superhuman community).
If you're another country, I think you WANT the PROs to fail. You don't want the globaly balance of power to shift as significantly in any one direction. Or at least that is something I would suspect.
AllisterH
10-16-2006, 01:01 AM
Think of it from another perspective though.
SHIELD despite being a UN organization is basically falling under US control. SHIELD is also being seen as corrupt lately, yet is basically gaining control of the most powerful force on the earth (the superhuman community).
If you're another country, I think you WANT the PROs to fail. You don't want the globaly balance of power to shift as significantly in any one direction. Or at least that is something I would suspect.
The problem with this is that in the real world, America can pretty much crush anyone it needs to. The reason it doesn't is mostly because the American people don't want to. Do you honestly think that if the american government had put a full effort into Vietnam that the Vietcong would have actually "won"?
Sure, USA can't invade China or Russia but that still doesn't change the fact that america would win any nuclear exchange between the two. So the "threat" of all the superhumans being under the control of America is not a big threat given how many nuclear missiles America already has. I keep seeing that "threat" raised but it doesn't change the balance of power. There's a reason why America is considered the sole superpower.
In fact, I would argue that the Security council would argue for registration based on the fact that the current situation where American heroes interfere in another country's affairs and all the US does is say "They're not affiliated with us" (seriously, this HAS to piss off people in the world community when American heroes swoop in, do whatever and slink out and the US government says, "well, what do you want us to do? They don't work for us") exists.
With registration, the American government can't use that excuse and thus, less likely to get interference from the american heroes.
Peeps
10-16-2006, 06:47 AM
couldnt the returning folks i dont know, one of them be the hulk?
Here's something I've been wondering about:
Why would Namor invade the US?
Oh, sure, he was always attacking America in the old days (either alone or with the Atlantean forces) but that was back when he had a temper to match the Hulk's (and that was later found to be due to an oxygen unbalance, and fixed) so I don't he'd be so careless now. Especially since he already caught Namorita's murderer.
Unless...
Maybe he's doing it ON PURPOSE to help solve the Civil War dispute? Think about it: The only thing that would restore the public's faith in its heroes after Stamford would be if America were suddenly faced with a menace SHIELD and the registered heroes couldn't handle. If the Antis help defeat the "invasion" it would make them look good enough that the government might give them some special consideration, even if the SHRA doesn't get fully repealed.
Just an idea...
The problem with this is that in the real world, America can pretty much crush anyone it needs to. The reason it doesn't is mostly because the American people don't want to. Do you honestly think that if the american government had put a full effort into Vietnam that the Vietcong would have actually "won"?
Sure, USA can't invade China or Russia but that still doesn't change the fact that america would win any nuclear exchange between the two. So the "threat" of all the superhumans being under the control of America is not a big threat given how many nuclear missiles America already has. I keep seeing that "threat" raised but it doesn't change the balance of power. There's a reason why America is considered the sole superpower.
In fact, I would argue that the Security council would argue for registration based on the fact that the current situation where American heroes interfere in another country's affairs and all the US does is say "They're not affiliated with us" (seriously, this HAS to piss off people in the world community when American heroes swoop in, do whatever and slink out and the US government says, "well, what do you want us to do? They don't work for us") exists.
With registration, the American government can't use that excuse and thus, less likely to get interference from the american heroes.
I don't think the Panther or anyone else for that matter is really worried that the US would go around crushing other countries. That said, I still believe they would be fearful of the US and SHIELD gaining control of the US superhuman community, and rightly so.
Having superhumans is worse than nuclear bombs... because it's something they would actually use (almost no one in their right minds in this day and age will use nukes). Telepaths, speedsters, etc. The heroes are one of the few checks and balances that exist AGAINST such things as SHIELD (who presently is corrupt) and now they are working for SHIELD.
Again, my question is why would Panther or any world leader really support this? To me it just makes the world that much scarier a place.You don't want that much power consolidated.
kalorama
10-16-2006, 10:52 AM
The problem I have with Black Panther being anti-reg is I honestly can't see it in Panther's history.
This is the guy who joined the Avengers to spy on them to see if they were a threat to Wakanda. As well, this is a guy who i can't see allowing vigilantism in his own country. Its one thing to have people playing good samaritan but I doubt the panther would allow a Spider-man to run around in his own country without him knowing who it was. That's just not the Panther I envision.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to know that T'challa knew the secret identity of any costumed hero that he interacts with him. Anything that can affect the security of Wakanda and he's finding out all about it yet he has a problem with the US government wanting to know the same thing?
Why would he be anti-reg? This could have been a good conflict between the newlyweds as again, marvel writers fail to address the actual good points registration has. It also ignores the fact that vigilantism in our world (USA at least ) was most closely associated with the KKK and the lynchings of black men based on trumped up charges so why would a black man automatically side with the anti-registration side.
He spied on the Avengers because he was worried that a conglomeration of such powerful heroes working under government sanction might some day pose a threat to Wakanda. So there's plenty of reason to see why he'd have bigger concerns about a much larger conglomeration of power under control fo the U.S. government.
gorthon616
10-16-2006, 10:55 AM
I don't think the Panther or anyone else for that matter is really worried that the US would go around crushing other countries. That said, I still believe they would be fearful of the US and SHIELD gaining control of the US superhuman community, and rightly so.
Having superhumans is worse than nuclear bombs... because it's something they would actually use (almost no one in their right minds in this day and age will use nukes). Telepaths, speedsters, etc. The heroes are one of the few checks and balances that exist AGAINST such things as SHIELD (who presently is corrupt) and now they are working for SHIELD.
Again, my question is why would Panther or any world leader really support this? To me it just makes the world that much scarier a place. You don't want that much power consolidated.
Because you'd rather have it just floating around and simply crossing your fingers that they'll be used for the good of mankind?
While perhaps there might be arguments that the answer is, "yes," there are certainly arguments that the answer is correspondingly no. For instance, consider Iran/North Korea. By saying we don't want them to have nukes, we are essentially consolidating nuclear military arsenals into the hands of those who are already nuclear weapons. However, this is different than saying that we need to start stockpiling more nuclear weapons.
So yes, as world leader it is entirely reasonable to be pro-registration because you essentially don't want military hardware drifting around.
kalorama
10-16-2006, 10:58 AM
That depends on what kind of relationship the other country has with the U.S. The Panther has already been established as being mistrustful of that kind of power under strict control of the U.S. government, so it's perfectly reasonable for him to be anti-reg.
Magneto Rocks
10-16-2006, 11:15 AM
First of all, Tony Stark was OPPOSED to the Registration Act AS IT CURRENTLY STANDS and even stated this in the Civil War Files issue. To him, registration is just a means to an end towards his master plan that he proposed during the Illuminati--having a nationwide organization of superheroes to protect Earth from any global threats, hence the "50 state inititive," and has stated that the "initive" is actually better than the registration act as it currently stands it ratified to reflect that inititive.
Tony was opposed until Stamford, and we have absoloutely nothing post-Stamford (sans CW FIles which I'd be hesitant to trust, seeing as it doesn't make sense continuity-wise -Sue Storm being pro-reg but The Thing has already left for France?) that says he is opposed to the SHRA AFTER Stamford. And a lot which says he supports it. Yes, he sees it as a stepping stone, but he's happy with it as is.
Second, the way things have been shaping up in Civil War pretty much hints that the mini is kind of tragedy: the king (Iron Man) wanting to do good for his country (the United States) in the wake of a tragedy (the Riverbank Massacre) proposes laws (the SHRA) to prevent future tragedies only ends up creating the very tragedy he so desperately tried to avoid. It seems pretty evident that his hiring supervillains, cloning Thor, and creating an interdimensional gulag is going to blow up in Iron Man's face, especially if, as it's been hinted, Namor leads his fellow Atlantians an invasion against the US. Who do you think is going to be the scapegoat when that happens? Iron Man. The public has been told registration would protect people from future attacks from superbeings, and considering that Iron Man is the figurehead of Registration, the government will put all the blame on him to avoid getting blamed themselves, but, since they still see him as a valuable asset, will shuffle him and some of his colleagues of it some "quiet" place so he won't "embarass" them further. He of course will protest by saying "I did what I had to do to save lives," to which the response by Cap, Fury, etc. will be "No, you did what you had to do to save yourself." And guess who will come to the rescue during that Atlantean invasion? Why Captain America and his merry band of unregistered "criminals." As a result, Cap won't have to serve jail time (not exactly good PR that the "sentinel of liberty" is regarded as a "local-terrorist") but rather be sentenced to "public service" by leading another group of Avengers under S.H.I.E.L.D.s supervision. Bendis even stated in Wizard about Mighty Avengers and New Avengers that both teams could have members from both sides of Civil War on the same team, implying not only registration still passes, but that some of those on Cap's side will be assigned to those teams rather than face jail time. Seems to me that indicates that "42" (and I stand corrected if that is what the gulag in the negative zone is called) will probably be reworked as well to make it more "media friendly."
I don't know where to BEGIN arguing against that. Firstly, your "it seems CW is set up to be..." is completely in your opinion with nothing to substantiate it. And as for the rest- there's little to contradict what I siad.
So in terms of the actual fighting, I'm going out on a limb to say Caps side will win, but because registration is still the law of the land and since neither side got what they really wanted, nobody "wins."
.[/QUOTE]
More than likely, SHRA will still be law at the end of the series, but I increasingly suspect that the wording will be tightened and the more unconstitutional elements(forced conscription into SHIELD, the Negative Zone prison, no representation for captured unregistered heroes, that sort of thing) will be eliminated. Since Tony supported these unconstitutional acts, I suspect that he's about to become the least popular person in the MU for quite some time. Maybe James Rhodes will become Iron Man again for a stint.
You think Tony cares? If that happens, he'll consider himself the winner. He got what he wanted, and he is a hero so he really won't care about being reviled. Spin it any way you want, but he'd MUCH rather have that situation than have Cap flat-out win and the law abolished.
gorthon616
10-16-2006, 11:57 AM
That depends on what kind of relationship the other country has with the U.S. The Panther has already been established as being mistrustful of that kind of power under strict control of the U.S. government, so it's perfectly reasonable for him to be anti-reg.
Oh certainly, I think it's reasonable for him to be anti-registration.
As it currently stands, I can't imagine him being pro-registration seeing as how the atypical defense for the Pro-Reg side is "we are on the side and thus all we do in this regard is right" and him not being bound by such law. Further with the characterization of the government and SHIELD (my opinion on that aside), I can't say I blame him.
I suppose I was arguing the argument rather than the position. The question as stated was, Again, my question is why would Panther or any world leader really support this? And my point was yes they would, and generally they do. Of course sometimes they don't and where the power should be held legitimately is often argued and slanted in the direction of self-preference. But if you were a world leader, you would generally not choose a more chaotic system over a ordered system.
scottv
10-16-2006, 12:05 PM
Those look like they are going to be good!
kalorama
10-16-2006, 12:20 PM
But if you were a world leader, you would generally not choose a more chaotic system over a ordered system.
I don't think you can make a generalization like that. The only way to really gauge how foreign leaders would fall on the issue would be to look at their relationship with the U.S. and how they would be affected by such a massive increase in U.S. military power.
And if a generalization were to be made, I think it would fall the other way, because even U.S. allies would hasve to be somewhat uncomfortable with the the already unbalanced power structure tipping so much in the U.S.'s favor. With that kind of easily concealed, easily mobilzed power under their control, what incentive would the U.S. have for compromise and conciliation? Controlling every one of the massively powered superhumans in the U.S. would be like having their own fleet of easily deployed walking nukes. That prospect would likely hold some concern for even our closest allies.
AllisterH
10-16-2006, 12:38 PM
I don't think you can make a generalization like that. The only way to really gauge how foreign leaders would fall on the issue would be to look at their relationship with the U.S. and how they would be affected by such a massive increase in U.S. military power.
And if a generalization were to be made, I think it would fall the other way, because even U.S. allies would hasve to be somewhat uncomfortable with the the already unbalanced power structure tipping so much in the U.S.'s favor. With that kind of easily concealed, easily mobilzed power under their control, what incentive would the U.S. have for compromise and conciliation? Controlling every one of the massively powered superhumans in the U.S. would be like having their own fleet of easily deployed walking nukes. That prospect would likely hold some concern for even our closest allies.
The reason why I disagree with this is that even without Supers, the US pretty much steam roll ANY country not named Russia or China. These are the only two countries with missile systems and ENOUGH of them to actually threaten the continental USA.
However, what keeps America in check is ironically the American people. Sure, it is easy enough to get the people riled up for a war but just as easily, the largest critics of a war are ALWAYS going to be the American people.
There's a reason why Soviet Russia considered the hippies its greatest ally at time....Furthermore, it is much easier to plan against a single source rather than some nebulous sources. It is also assumes the fact that just because the superhumans under the control of the government, they're automaitcally going to invade any two-bit country.
Even something as pedestrian as the invasions of Panama and Grenada had to go through the Senate & House opp leaders in private. Yet the assumption that the superhumans will be wily-nily sent to invade others countries makes no sense.
The current situation though HAS to be worse since right now, an X-men team can walk into Russia, simply steal something and the Russians are pretty much left with no option. The current situation ACTUALLY favours the US since the various Weapon PLUS projects could be sent overseas and if they were found out, the americans had plausible denialability since pretty much every superhuman in America had been doing the same damn thing.
If a speedster working under the US government orders, kidnaps a world leader, in the current situation, there is no way to argue that it WAS a direct US attack since frankly, there is no way barring comic book screw-up that the attack could be linked to the government. If, OTOH, every super works for the government, the US is automatically on the hook for any super-incident.
RonnieThunderbolts
10-16-2006, 12:40 PM
Black Panther's choice makes PERFECT sense. T'Challa's very good friend Bill Foster was killed. You think that might have something to do with it? Perhaps, perhaps not, but if that isn't enough of a real world motivation (wars are fought over less)... He would look to HOW Bill died, and see that they are cloning f**ed up Gods who can't be programmed to not kill everybody, but can talk, walk, use a hammer, identify Dagger on his own... he's not a robot, but he just blows up poeple any G**damn time he feels like it? T'Challa, as a world leader, wants that kind of power to NOT exist. Its like everyone freaking out over the North Korean nuclear stuff, and with good cause. When people are making shows of power with WMD, nukes in the real world, and lightning powered God-clones who don't follow pretty simple orders are in the comics world.
kalorama
10-16-2006, 12:46 PM
The reason why I disagree with this is that even without Supers, the US pretty much steam roll ANY country not named Russia or China. These are the only two countries with missile systems and ENOUGH of them to actually threaten the continental USA.
However, what keeps America in check is ironically the American people. Sure, it is easy enough to get the people riled up for a war but just as easily, the largest critics of a war are ALWAYS going to be the American people.
There's a reason why Soviet Russia considered the hippies its greatest ally at time....Furthermore, it is much easier to plan against a single source rather than some nebulous sources. It is also assumes the fact that just because the superhumans under the control of the government, they're automaitcally going to invade any two-bit country.
Even something as pedestrian as the invasions of Panama and Grenada had to go through the Senate & House opp leaders in private. Yet the assumption that the superhumans will be wily-nily sent to invade others countries makes no sense.
The current situation though HAS to be worse since right now, an X-men team can walk into Russia, simply steal something and the Russians are pretty much left with no option. The current situation ACTUALLY favours the US since the various Weapon PLUS projects could be sent overseas and if they were found out, the americans had plausible denialability since pretty much every superhuman in America had been doing the same damn thing.
If a speedster working under the US government orders, kidnaps a world leader, in the current situation, there is no way to argue that it WAS a direct US attack since frankly, there is no way barring comic book screw-up that the attack could be linked to the government. If, OTOH, every super works for the government, the US is automatically on the hook for any super-incident.
Which won't matter because, with all that power in their hands, what can the other country do about it? Not a damn thing. Besides, with all of the metahumans under their control, there'd be a hundred ways the U.S. could bump off any world leader they wanted to without any fear of it pointing back to them. The onus would be on the other side to prove it. All of your counter arguments are based on the idea that any U.S. action against other countries would be out in the open and subject to scrutiny and criticism. But with a fully compliant army of diversely powered metahumans, the U.S. would be more than capable of conducting assassinations, kidnappings, and any number of covert missions outside of the view of the rest of the world. And with telepaths, teleporters, time-travelers, etc. on the U.S. payroll, covering their tracks would be no problem.
There's no need for the other nations to "plan against" U.S. metahumans under the current status quo, because most of them focus their activities on the U.S. or on global threats from offworld. Sure, they could overthrow any country they wanted. But the fact that (aside from the F.F. in Authoritative Action) they haven't is indicative of their resistance to the idea, based on an inherent understanding that doing so exceeds what they consider to be their purpose. That would change radically if their agenda was decided by the U.S. government rather than the dictates of their own conscience.
AllisterH
10-16-2006, 01:03 PM
But with a fully compliant army of diversely powered metahumans, the U.S. would be more than capable of conducting assassinations, kidnappings, and any number of covert missions outside of the view of the rest of the world. And with telepaths, teleporters, time-travelers, etc. on the U.S. payroll, covering their tracks would be no problem.
.
There's nothing preventing the US from doing this *NOW* though. There are still enough superhumans running around that the US government could easily hire a telepath and simply pay them to do it.
That's my whole point. Right now, the US can do everything people are worried about AND they have plausible excuses to argue that said operation wasn't a covert US action.
You brought up another good point with reference to the FF taking over Latveria. IIRC, from that storyline, the US government was taken to task by the UN security council yet the US gov't only response was "Well, they don't work for us....."
No-one at the table believed that shit even though it was true. So hoenstly, either way, the uS is screwed.
Slade.
10-16-2006, 01:49 PM
I guess if you're Hudlin and you see the black and orange fur, it's enough of a reason to consider her a person of color.
Lmao.........
Mothmonsterman
10-16-2006, 02:16 PM
Tigra isn't black. What are you talking about?
Of course she is. You just wait and see.
drwho
10-16-2006, 02:26 PM
Have we ever seen what tigra looks like shaved? Maybe she turned black from the transformation.:eek:
Haunt
10-16-2006, 03:24 PM
I beleive that's the case, and they're actually still useing a Nick Fury LMD publically. But yeah, it could be as simple as them officially and publically naming Hill director of SHIELD. That would explain why marvel would shameless "spoil" it.
it's going to be Tony Stark. mark my words.
Have we ever seen what tigra looks like shaved? Maybe she turned black from the transformation.:eek:
she can switch back and forth. you can see what she looks like in her last mini. to be honest i originally thought she was black as well.
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page2&issue=88066630381%202
http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page2&issue=88066630381%201
Wow cant wait for January now lol
im glad Storm is joinin pro-reg, mayb this is a hint that the x-men will join the pro-reg side too. Anyway if Black Panter is joinin pro-reg side isnt that like Wakanda declaring war on the US?
and blade versus wolverine...DAMN should b a good one
Magneto Rocks
10-16-2006, 03:36 PM
No way can the X-Men go pro-reg.
Simply put, Tony's barely breaking even WITH a villain army. Throw in Panther, Storm, Spidey to the other side he's at a disadvantage. Throw in all of the X-Men and he's screwed. (Since the power of Clor can only be worth so much and the REAL Thor will almost certainly be anti-reg and kick Sentry's ass)
RonnieThunderbolts
10-16-2006, 03:38 PM
Wow cant wait for January now lol
im glad Storm is joinin pro-reg, mayb this is a hint that the x-men will join the pro-reg side too. Anyway if Black Panter is joinin pro-reg side isnt that like Wakanda declaring war on the US?
and blade versus wolverine...DAMN should b a good one
The way I see it, Hercules, and by association, the other Greek Gods if he called upon them (Ares is always on the outs with them, Herc is Zeus' favored son, and other than Hera, Herc is much more accepted by the Olympians), Black Panther and Wakanda, Namor and the Atlanteans, Black Bolt and the Inhumans, the Punisher, Cap and the Secret Avengers, and Storm, who controls the weather (without something like MGH, she is pretty powerful, imagine her with a temporary power boost a la Nitro. Ororo could have complete control of the Earth's global weather systems, potentially) are all pretty much against the U.S. and the Pro-Registration forces in some fashion. They don't seem outnumbered by "Clone Thor," Iron Man and his amazing friends, the TBolts and Sentry anymore. Sentry is totally the biggest threat, but stick him in a spot with Black Bolt, and he is likely to be challenged. The tide is defnitely turning, it would seem.
Mothmonsterman
10-16-2006, 03:43 PM
As far as the distribution of power, I don't see how Tony's side could ever be at a disadvantage.
Between Iron Man, Sentry, Made in Thorwan, pseudo-omnipotent Zemo, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, Radioactive Man, Atlas, and so on, Tony's side has pretty much all the muscle.
What does Cap have? Hercules and now Sue. And...Luke Cage?
Magneto Rocks
10-16-2006, 03:52 PM
As far as the distribution of power, I don't see how Tony's side could ever be at a disadvantage.
Between Iron Man, Sentry, Made in Thorwan, pseudo-omnipotent Zemo, Wonder Man, Ms. Marvel, Radioactive Man, Atlas, and so on, Tony's side has pretty much all the muscle.
What does Cap have? Hercules and now Sue. And...Luke Cage?
Well, let's see:
Clor isn't as good as actual Thor
Omnipotent Zemo doesn't fight
Wonder Man is being sorely underused
Ms marvel is good, but she's not amazing
Radioactive Man is being underused, and even then he's not that commited to his cause
Atlas- oh come on! he's not a powerhouse!
Sentry, whose situation is yet to be explained and he is absent from at least 2- most likely 3 - of the 4 major battles we know of in the war.
Cap has Hercules, can kick the ass of... well, a lot of people. Like Iron Man, as we saw. Sue Storm, one of the most powerful super-humans on EARTH. Human Torch is very powerful, Cap himself can take almost anyone due to his tactical abilities, Black Panther is certainly a powerhouse, Cable- IF he stays- is VERY good in his own right, Cage is good, and let's not forget Cap's side now has very much got strength in numbers. Guys like Triathlon, Firestar, Justice- VERY good, but underused.
Willminus2
10-16-2006, 03:55 PM
I don't think Zemo is pro-reg. I think he's playing both sides. He gave cap the key to the negative zone prison, and basically told Cap everything that's going on, so I don't think he's with Tony necessarily.
sephirothskiller
10-16-2006, 04:50 PM
The reason why I disagree with this is that even without Supers, the US pretty much steam roll ANY country not named Russia or China.
I was gonna say something regarding the outcome of the War of 1812 :evilsmile , and a repeat if Canada was attacked, but such a statement usually starts arguments and boils blood. In fact I'd imagine that I already have started arguments.
Anyway, if we take Super's out of the question the idea of the U.S. steam rolling anyone is rediculous. Why? Because of nukes. As in, the U.S. is extremely vunerable to them. And alot of countries are capable of getting some shots over there. And that missle defence system is worth diddly-crap and everyone knows it.
I also have to point out that Russia shouldn't be overestimated in terms of their military might. That's not saying that they can be defeated though. Historically, attacking Russia is like deciding that its time to lose.
The more likely issue though is the U.S. economy. If you hadn't noticed the U.S. is incredibly dependant on imports just as other countries are dependant on its exports. The U.S. could be held accountable that way.
This doesn't mean the U.S. WOULD be held accountable this way, and I think they'd probably be able to get away with alot. Or something. I'm tired.
The way I see it, Hercules, and by association, the other Greek Gods if he called upon them (Ares is always on the outs with them, Herc is Zeus' favored son, and other than Hera, Herc is much more accepted by the Olympians), Black Panther and Wakanda, Namor and the Atlanteans, Black Bolt and the Inhumans, the Punisher, Cap and the Secret Avengers, and Storm, who controls the weather (without something like MGH, she is pretty powerful, imagine her with a temporary power boost a la Nitro. Ororo could have complete control of the Earth's global weather systems, potentially) are all pretty much against the U.S. and the Pro-Registration forces in some fashion. They don't seem outnumbered by "Clone Thor," Iron Man and his amazing friends, the TBolts and Sentry anymore. Sentry is totally the biggest threat, but stick him in a spot with Black Bolt, and he is likely to be challenged. The tide is defnitely turning, it would seem.
the InHumans are against the registration law? where is that mentioned?
Alpow
10-16-2006, 05:14 PM
the InHumans are against the registration law? where is that mentioned?
The Inhumans are against the US because the US has stolen from them, and as they say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Cthulhudrew
10-16-2006, 05:52 PM
The Inhumans are against the US because the US has stolen from them, and as they say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Unless, of course, the enemy of my enemy is also my enemy. Which, if the Inhumans feel slighted enough, might well be the case.
Mothmonsterman
10-16-2006, 07:33 PM
Well, let's see:
Clor isn't as good as actual Thor
Omnipotent Zemo doesn't fight
Wonder Man is being sorely underused
Ms marvel is good, but she's not amazing
Radioactive Man is being underused, and even then he's not that commited to his cause
Atlas- oh come on! he's not a powerhouse!
Sentry, whose situation is yet to be explained and he is absent from at least 2- most likely 3 - of the 4 major battles we know of in the war.
Cap has Hercules, can kick the ass of... well, a lot of people. Like Iron Man, as we saw. Sue Storm, one of the most powerful super-humans on EARTH. Human Torch is very powerful, Cap himself can take almost anyone due to his tactical abilities, Black Panther is certainly a powerhouse, Cable- IF he stays- is VERY good in his own right, Cage is good, and let's not forget Cap's side now has very much got strength in numbers. Guys like Triathlon, Firestar, Justice- VERY good, but underused.
I just want to make sure I read this right.
You're brushing off the likes of Atlas, Radioactive Man, Zemo, Wonder Man, and Sentry, while simultaneously bragging that Cap's side has people like Triathalon, Justice, and Luke Cage?
I just want to be sure I've got this straight before I seriously respond.
misterorange
10-16-2006, 11:45 PM
Could the other hero be the real Thor?
RonnieThunderbolts
10-17-2006, 01:10 AM
The Inhumans are against the US because the US has stolen from them, and as they say the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
In New Avengers Illuminati. Black Bolt wasn't cool with Tony's predictions regarding the Stamford incident and the SHRA, neither was Namor, who was already pissed about getting rid of Hulk, and Strange. Reed was the only one who agreed with him. And though his fist movement wasn't clear, Bendis and Quesada said afterwards that he was against it. Check out the issue. Plus, as others have mentioned, Black Bolt has already declared war on the U.S. for taking the Terrigen crystals.
AllisterH
10-17-2006, 05:55 AM
In New Avengers Illuminati. Black Bolt wasn't cool with Tony's predictions regarding the Stamford incident and the SHRA, neither was Namor, who was already pissed about getting rid of Hulk, and Strange. Reed was the only one who agreed with him. And though his fist movement wasn't clear, Bendis and Quesada said afterwards that he was against it. Check out the issue. Plus, as others have mentioned, Black Bolt has already declared war on the U.S. for taking the Terrigen crystals.
Technically, the US government did not steal the Terrigen crystals.
Pietro stole them and the US government found them. Now, while as a diplomatic gesture of good faith, the US should've given them to the Inhumans, they are not under any obligation IMO to actually give it back.
sherlockbones
10-17-2006, 06:39 AM
alot of people seem to associate the name "greer" with a black person. i have read an interesting article on this subject, which i auto-translated by babelfish. does anybody know the us-athors the text refers too? i would like to read their conclusions too
she can switch back and forth. you can see what she looks like in her last mini. to be honest i originally thought she was black as well.
Particularly for the advertisement the results are interesting, say the researchers. The prejudices make a name useful or useless as advertising media: "in such a way will itself a Uwe only heavily as attractive youth model marked out to leave." Uwe had been estimated of the pro gangs as particularly old - with appropriate consequences for the carriers of the name.
A further use of the study: Also with psychological tests and experiments tasks of text can be placed in the future in such a way that examples are not distorted by thoughtless first names. Already US authors drew this teachings from earlier studies, in which it concerned sex and ethnical prejudices: In the USA, where passport photos are forbidden in applications, humans develop a fine feeling for it, which skin color hides itself behind names.
For becoming parents and pairs with child desire the question arises according to the Chemnitzer study: Which name already provides with the birth certificate a starting advantage for the child? "I would recommend, say a timeless name" Boehm, "Anna or Alexander." The names from the modern category got the highest agreement values. But mode and spirit of the time children could suffer under the Schnelllebigkeit of the name taste.
-------------------------------------------
bp´s choice was obvious to me. i am more interested in the confrontation between punisher and cap
sherlockbones
10-17-2006, 06:47 AM
Technically, the US government did not steal the Terrigen crystals.
Pietro stole them and the US government found them. Now, while as a diplomatic gesture of good faith, the US should've given them to the Inhumans, they are not under any obligation IMO to actually give it back.
they "found" them on soil which was not under the jurisdiction of the us of a. so some unfriendly words also apply to their methods of securing them.
Magneto Rocks
10-17-2006, 09:40 AM
I just want to make sure I read this right.
You're brushing off the likes of Atlas, Radioactive Man, Zemo, Wonder Man, and Sentry, while simultaneously bragging that Cap's side has people like Triathalon, Justice, and Luke Cage?
I just want to be sure I've got this straight before I seriously respond.
Oh don't worry, you didn't :)
I'm pointing out that EDITORIALLY speaking, the sides are barely, since the full power of Wonder Man and Radioactive Man is being SEVERELY underused, giving Tony many less power players, so with the current way things are going, Tony has a disadvantage.
BUT if we include their full powers, Tony is at an advantage. Even then, it's not much.
But I brush off Atlas- maybe I'm underestimting him
I brush off Zemo because he has not once taken to the field of battle and is clearly not a deliberate pro-reg except for his own agenda
Whereas Triathlon and Justice are VERY powerful, far more than you give them credit for.
Triathlon- for a time he had amazing cosmic power, normally he had the power of being THREE TIMES faster AND stronger than Black Panther or Cap, for example. That is a massive advantage. It's unclear what he has now.
Firestar- Has the power to incinerate a continent. 'Nuff said.
Justice- Fantastic telekenetic. Now there aren't many psychics on either side, so having a telekenetic as good as him is a very good advantage.
Alpow
10-17-2006, 12:17 PM
Technically, the US government did not steal the Terrigen crystals.
Pietro stole them and the US government found them. Now, while as a diplomatic gesture of good faith, the US should've given them to the Inhumans, they are not under any obligation IMO to actually give it back.
They took receipt of stolen goods (full knowing they were stolen goods) and then refused to return them to the rightful owners, what’s more they didn’t just come across them as salvage they specifically went to Genosha with the intent of taking them from Pietro which is theft and they did so because they were worried that it could potentially cure the mutants affected by M-day.
Those stolen goods are the property of foreign nations, the property also happens to be key to the survival of that foreign nation and an artefact of great cultural value.
IMO Black Bolt should get down to business and level the White House then hand over a note saying unless the US returns his property within 24 hours that he will give them 48 hours to evacuate DC before he levels the entire place, he can then move on doing that until the US no longer exists as geopolitical entity (although I suspect the US would buckle long before then).
Haunt
10-17-2006, 02:57 PM
alot of people seem to associate the name "greer" with a black person. i have read an interesting article on this subject, which i auto-translated by babelfish. does anybody know the us-athors the text refers too? i would like to read their conclusions too
Particularly for the advertisement the results are interesting, say the researchers. The prejudices make a name useful or useless as advertising media: "in such a way will itself a Uwe only heavily as attractive youth model marked out to leave." Uwe had been estimated of the pro gangs as particularly old - with appropriate consequences for the carriers of the name.
A further use of the study: Also with psychological tests and experiments tasks of text can be placed in the future in such a way that examples are not distorted by thoughtless first names. Already US authors drew this teachings from earlier studies, in which it concerned sex and ethnical prejudices: In the USA, where passport photos are forbidden in applications, humans develop a fine feeling for it, which skin color hides itself behind names.
For becoming parents and pairs with child desire the question arises according to the Chemnitzer study: Which name already provides with the birth certificate a starting advantage for the child? "I would recommend, say a timeless name" Boehm, "Anna or Alexander." The names from the modern category got the highest agreement values. But mode and spirit of the time children could suffer under the Schnelllebigkeit of the name taste.
-------------------------------------------
bp´s choice was obvious to me. i am more interested in the confrontation between punisher and cap
well, me, i was just thinking of Pam Greir. :o
Cthulhudrew
10-17-2006, 04:27 PM
Technically, the US government did not steal the Terrigen crystals.
Pietro stole them and the US government found them.
The US government didn't really "find" them, though, did they? They sent a contingent of US troops after Quicksilver with the specific intent of obtaining the crystals, IIRC.
It's not like they were just making a random security sweep of the ruins of Genosha (which, frankly, they would have no recognizable jurisdiction to do- at least not that I'm aware of), and stumbled across a canister of Terrigen crystals that Quicksilver had clumsily left lying around, and took it for "security purposes."
So, technically, I think they did steal them. The fact that they stole them from a thief is really a semantic issue. It would be like saying stealing millions of dollars from a criminal who had stolen the money from a bank wasn't stealing. While I'm not a lawyer, I'm pretty sure there are laws that exist to cover such scenarios.
Cthulhudrew
10-17-2006, 04:32 PM
IMO Black Bolt should get down to business and level the White House then hand over a note saying unless the US returns his property within 24 hours that he will give them 48 hours to evacuate DC before he levels the entire place, he can then move on doing that until the US no longer exists as geopolitical entity (although I suspect the US would buckle long before then).
Frankly, I wouldn't even bother with diplomacy in any form, if I were him. He's got advanced technology, and a teleporting dog. Surely he (or his scientists) can figure out where the US is keeping the Terrigen Crystals, and teleport in there to retrieve them. If there is something keeping teleporters out, then yeah, go in full force and take them back. What is the US going to do about it? Put embargoes on the brisk Earth/Moon trade?
The fact that Black Bolt would even bother is... well, not ludicrous, since he has been shown to want to have good relations and to want his people to be accepted. But he's declared war now- so really, he's obviously not interested in diplomacy. How tough should it be for the Inhumans to get what they want? Not at all, IMO, though I'm willing to wait and see how Hine decides to go with it.
Mjolnir
10-17-2006, 11:08 PM
does Civil War: Choosing Sides still come out on the 25th of October?
DoctorDoom
10-18-2006, 01:49 AM
does Civil War: Choosing Sides still come out on the 25th of October?
I'd like to know too.
Haunt
10-18-2006, 03:06 PM
I'd like to know too.
it does come out on that date. i saw it on the checklist today.
Its interesting that the other three "species" on the planet (Mutants, Atlantians, and Inhumans) are all gunning to give a beating so some segment of the government right about now. (Even if for the X-men, its just that one guy).
I question if there's enough time for all of these well deserved beatings between the end of CW and the start of WWHulk (Which, will itself center around well deserved beatings)
Mystique25
10-20-2006, 04:45 PM
Okay, so on the new Joe Fridays today, Joe said the new director of shiel(as refered to in She-Hulk #15 solicits) is going to be a "true American patriot". So what does everbody think?
Haunt
10-20-2006, 05:09 PM
Okay, so on the new Joe Fridays today, Joe said the new director of shiel(as refered to in She-Hulk #15 solicits) is going to be a "true American patriot". So what does everbody think?
i still think it's Tony Stark.
riotgear
10-20-2006, 05:10 PM
Okay, so on the new Joe Fridays today, Joe said the new director of shiel(as refered to in She-Hulk #15 solicits) is going to be a "true American patriot". So what does everbody think?
My suspicion is Steve Rogers, which would actually be an interesting idea. What would Captain America do with the full weight of an international strikeforce behind him?
Jeff-E
10-20-2006, 05:11 PM
Readers Digest anwser... Nick Fury is going to be back in the saddle.
gorthon616
10-20-2006, 05:14 PM
My suspicion is Steve Rogers, which would actually be an interesting idea. What would Captain America do with the full weight of an international strikeforce behind him?
How in the world could it be Cap?
Readers Digest anwser... Nick Fury is going to be back in the saddle.
Hmm. I'd have to agree. Probly the best bet.
Haunt
10-20-2006, 05:33 PM
How in the world could it be Cap?
Hmm. I'd have to agree. Probly the best bet.
if it can't be Cap, how could it be fellow fugitive Fury?
El Santo
10-20-2006, 05:40 PM
My guess would be USAgent. Or they finally make Maria Hill the permanent, rather than simply the acting, director.
if it can't be Cap, how could it be fellow fugitive Fury?
They are putting Green Goblin and Vemon on the government payroll. I gues we can conclude the government in the MU are a bunch of really forgiving guys.
Haunt
10-20-2006, 05:55 PM
My guess would be USAgent. Or they finally make Maria Hill the permanent, rather than simply the acting, director.
US Agent is shipped to Canada.
NickThompson
10-20-2006, 06:45 PM
I really hope it isn't Stark. It always bugged me with Fury how he was head of this huge Intellegence organisation, but still had time to do pretty much everything personally. Stark would have that even more than with Fury.
StoneGold
10-20-2006, 07:11 PM
I've learned never try to make assumptions based on "clues" given in Joe Fridays. The man could be a world class magician, with his level of misdirection.
"Illusionist, Michael. Magicians do tricks, like whores!"
I've learned never try to make assumptions based on "clues" given in Joe Fridays. The man could be a world class magician, with his level of misdirection.
"Illusionist, Michael. Magicians do tricks, like whores!"
That's part of the fun though. You know there's some level of truth and some level of misdiretion. So it's almost like a puzzle.
StoneGold
10-20-2006, 07:29 PM
That's part of the fun though. You know there's some level of truth and some level of misdiretion. So it's almost like a puzzle.
I agree with you completely. That wasn't a bash against Joe, just being in awe of his ability to misdirect. Which is a good skill, if you run an industry based on surprises in a world filled with spoilers. But his misdirects tend to lead in a completely opposite direction. So I'm thinking. American patriot. Running the opposite direction, that could mean that the character is American, but a patriot of another country or place. So obviously, Cable is becoming head of SHIELD.
Haunt
10-20-2006, 07:46 PM
I agree with you completely. That wasn't a bash against Joe, just being in awe of his ability to misdirect. Which is a good skill, if you run an industry based on surprises in a world filled with spoilers. But his misdirects tend to lead in a completely opposite direction. So I'm thinking. American patriot. Running the opposite direction, that could mean that the character is American, but a patriot of another country or place. So obviously, Cable is becoming head of SHIELD.
that would turn 'misdirection' into an outright lie. he said the director would be an american patriot.
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