Civil War: The Return

[Grimm]

Who knows if Andy and Keith even wanted him to be in the Annihilation story?

While yeah I expected Captain Marvel to return in a more epic fashion rather than in the middle of a superhero civil war on earth, he's back anyway you slice it. They can go anywhere at this point which is why I'm actually interested in his solo whatever format it ends up being.

Who knows indeed, but then in a one-shot or mini dealing with the aftermath of Annihilation would they care? After all isn't his own series in all probablity going to be making use of that very material?

[drwho]

Will the heroes even recognize who Captain Marvel is? Also why would he team up with Iron Man and Reed more than Cap? I just think they should have given readers a better background on this story. I've been buying comics for about 20 or so years and I don't know much about him, but this didnt impress me either.

[Grimm]

Maybe his series will address the aftermath.

The hell's the difference if the name of the 10 page story he was just in is called Civil War: The Return or Annihilation: The Return?


SEAN

Well, it certainly seems to make a huge difference to yourself.

The content is what I am eager to change, however. Moreover, showing Mar-Vell's character and his significance to the greater scheme of the MU than as a lackey.

[Haunt]

There are a dozen guys who are currently around that the editors wanted to use in Annihilation and couldn't due to space. You really think they need someone who just came back to frickin' life?


SEAN


because he's a frickin kree warrior and not a g-damn wishy washy prison warden.

[Sean Whitmore]

Well, it certainly seems to make a huge difference to yourself.

Accepting what something is isn't the same as giving a damn what it is.

If this was an Annihilation spin-off, I wouldn't be going, "But WHY wasn't it a CIVIL WAR tie-iiiiiiin?"


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Will the heroes even recognize who Captain Marvel is? Also why would he team up with Iron Man and Reed more than Cap?

It's really less of Marv choosing Tony's side as it is him staying where he is and considering things.


SEAN

[drwho]

I'll give the first few issues a chance cus I support anything cosmic and I think he has one of the cooler costumes, but character and personality wise he is a blank slate for me.

[Cayman]

Will the heroes even recognize who Captain Marvel is? Also why would he team up with Iron Man and Reed more than Cap? I just think they should have given readers a better background on this story. I've been buying comics for about 20 or so years and I don't know much about him, but this didnt impress me either.

They did recognize them.

In this story, Mar-Vell has yet to leave the Negative Zone.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'll give the first few issues a chance cus I support anything cosmic and I think he has one of the cooler costumes, but character and personality wise he is a blank slate for me.

Regardless of the new series, you should try and get your hands on an old TPB called The Life of Captain Marvel. Very cool stuff.


SEAN

[Grimm]

Accepting what something is isn't the same as giving a damn what it is.

If this was an Annihilation spin-off, I wouldn't be going, "But WHY wasn't it a CIVIL WAR tie-iiiiiiin?"


SEAN

I'll spell it out for you.

Annihilation is a cosmic caper, Mar-Vell is a cosmic character.

[Cayman]

I'll spell it out for you.

Annihilation is a cosmic caper, Mar-Vell is a cosmic character.

He's also an Earth champion with ties to the Avengers.

[Will.S]

Who knows indeed, but then in a one-shot or mini dealing with the aftermath of Annihilation would they care? After all isn't his own series in all probablity going to be making use of that very material?
I would hope so, but that's why I'm not that up in arms about the title he came back in.

Basically Reed while messing around with the Negative Zone prison accidentally brought him back from time so it's the perfect opening to start his return for me. Granted the story wasn't all that great but he has to start somewhere right?

It also takes time to build to the places we all want CM to go after he came back.

[drwho]

I read that but what does it tell you when you hear the hero was more popular on his death bed than he was when the series was going on. I would not call that a good sign.

[Cayman]

I read that but what does it tell you when you hear the hero was more popular on his death bed than he was when the series was going on. I would not call that a good sign.

I would call it a great opportunity!

[Sean Whitmore]

I read that but what does it tell you when you hear the hero was more popular on his death bed than he was when the series was going on. I would not call that a good sign.

No, no, not the Death of Captain Marvel. There was an earlier collection called Life of Captain Marvel (I think) that showed him gaining his cosmic awareness and fighting Thanos and Nitro.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

I'll spell it out for you.

Annihilation is a cosmic caper, Mar-Vell is a cosmic character.

Negative Zone not cosmic enough for you?


SEAN

[Grimm]

Negative Zone not cosmic enough for you?


SEAN

Not when he never gets out of the prison til the last page, no not really.

May I suggest some Fantastic Four back issues? The negative zone actually consists of a lot more than a prison.

[Cayman]

Not when he never gets out of the prison til the last page, no not really.

May I suggest some Fantastic Four back issues? The negative zone actually consists of a lot more than a prison.

Obviously.

However the action in this story was more internal than external. We'll likely see more "cosmic" stuff in the series to follow.

[protege]

He has 3, but he was dead before 2 of the 3 were conceived from what I understand.

Ooogh. My head hurts.:confused:

[Grimm]

Obviously.

However the action in this story was more internal than external. We'll likely see more "cosmic" stuff in the series to follow.

Or, maybe he'll join the Avengers and fight the Hand, you know since he is affiliated with them and all.

[Sean Whitmore]

Not when he never gets out of the prison til the last page, no not really.

So you want everything that will ever happen to him...to happen in the little preview for his series?


SEAN

[Grimm]

So you want everything that will ever happen to him...to happen in the little preview for his series?


SEAN

Actually, yes. Don't you? Would save me a lorra money.

[Will.S]

Not when he never gets out of the prison til the last page, no not really.

May I suggest some Fantastic Four back issues? The negative zone actually consists of a lot more than a prison.
With only 10 pages of story devoted to explaining the why and the how, you can't have your cake and eat it too. This was basically the exact same thing they did with Ms. Marvel in the Giant Sized #0 issue which then led to her own series. Neither were that great (although I did enjoy hers more) but it's such a small sample of a story that one can't help but see that it's to lead into their own books.

The Civil War, the prison, and the Negative Zone itself were merely the backdrop to his return hence the title.

[Cayman]

Or, maybe he'll join the Avengers and fight the Hand, you know since he is affiliated with them and all.

He may well join the Avengers at some point. Given that he's an honorary member.

[Sean Whitmore]

Actually, yes. Don't you? Would save me a lorra money.

I don't mind setup issues, as long as they're done well. If they make me wanna see what happens next, as this one did, I consider it money well spent.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

He may well join the Avengers at some point. Given that he's an honorary member.

I wouldn't mind him joining the Mighty Avengers, actually. He seems to get along with Sentry rather well.


SEAN

[Grimm]

Sean, what I want, and made it pretty clear I had thought. Was for Mar-Vell to be introduced in a way that made new readers want to read him more, in case you hadn't noticed several posters have only had this as a taste of Marv and are not impressed.

Annihilation, for me would have worked better. However, if the Civil War tale had been better I wouldn't care. The fact is though, it sucked.

[Cayman]

Sean, what I want, and made it pretty clear I had thought. Was for Mar-Vell to be introduced in a way that made new readers want to read him more, in case you hadn't noticed several posters have only had this as a taste of Marv and are not impressed.

Annihilation, for me would have worked better. However, if the Civil War tale had been better I wouldn't care. The fact is though, it sucked.

More opinion than fact, I thought it was promising.

[Grimm]

With only 10 pages of story devoted to explaining the why and the how, you can't have your cake and eat it too. This was basically the exact same thing they did with Ms. Marvel in the Giant Sized #0 issue which then led to her own series. Neither were that great (although I did enjoy hers more) but it's such a small sample of a story that one can't help but see that it's to lead into their own books.

The Civil War, the prison, and the Negative Zone itself were merely the backdrop to his return hence the title.

They could have reprinted one of his older stories, or any of a number of things really. So yes, I believe I very well could have had my cake and eaten it too :)

I don't really see why we had the Sentry tale in it at all, considering we already had NA #24.

[Sean Whitmore]

I don't really see why we had the Sentry tale in it at all, considering we already had NA #24.

Yeah, but wasn't it nice to see him in a story where he's not a whiny baby? :)


SEAN

[Berkey]

I think it has some promise to it for anyone who knows who he is and even if you don't know. This #0 was fine but it really had no business being a part of the civil war tie-ins. I understand why they did it of course but all the same.

[Will.S]

They could have reprinted one of his older stories, or any of a number of things really. So yes, I believe I very well could have had my cake and eaten it too :)

I don't really see why we had the Sentry tale in it at all, considering we already had NA #24.
Heh well we get a little bit more of Sentry actually making the decision and being less wishy washy but I can't argue with you there.

[Grimm]

Yeah, but wasn't it nice to see him in a story where he's not a whiny baby? :)


SEAN

You bet.

Would have made more sense to me to have Jenkins write NA #24, and have a Giant Sized The Return with an Annihilation and Civil War tie in. Frak it, and a Back in Black tie in to show I've got a big heart :D

[Kevinroc]

Yeah, but wasn't it nice to see him in a story where he's not a whiny baby? :)


SEAN

Bendis writes him as a whiner. But Jenkins really doesn't. Of course, Jenkins also writes Sentry beating up the armies of Atlantis and Heralds of Galactus in the same day. It's kinda hard to put a character like that and have him be so active when you worry about those dangerous ninjas running around.

;)

[Cthulhudrew]

No, no, not the Death of Captain Marvel. There was an earlier collection called Life of Captain Marvel (I think) that showed him gaining his cosmic awareness and fighting Thanos and Nitro.

Collected now in the combo package The Life and Death of Captain Marvel. A good buy, and I believe it's still being solicited through Diamond.

[Sean Whitmore]

Collected now in the combo package The Life and Death of Captain Marvel. A good buy, and I believe it's still being solicited through Diamond.

:eek:

SunnuvaBITCH!

That's what I get for hunting for old TPBs on eBay.


SEAN

[The Shadow]

I have. I've been looking forward to this for a long time.

You've been waiting with anticipation for over TWO DECADES for this???? :confused:

[MAK15]

You've been waiting with anticipation for over TWO DECADES for this???? :confused:

he's got a lotta free time on his hands.
its either do drugs, wait for the return of somebody, or creat a webcomic.
pick your poison.

[Cayman]

You've been waiting with anticipation for over TWO DECADES for this???? :confused:

Not two decades but for awhile now.

[brundlefly]

I can't help but bang my head on the table everytime someone gets Absorbing Man's powers wrong since he doesn't absorb other people's powers unless they were made of a specific element or energy like sand, electricity, metal, stone and so on. Bruce Jones did a wacky thing with him too by making him all psychic and stuff.


Yeah, that error about Creed's powers and the fact that the issue was split into two stories were my complaints with this book. I was only interested in Marvel's return, wouldn't have picked this thing up if I knew I was only getting half the issue devoted to that and the rest to another "look how powerfull the Sentry is!!" showcase. :rolleyes:

The fact that they didn't outright retcon Marv's death or resurrect him in some hokey manner pleases me. I'm curious as to how he'll be used in the MU post-Civil War.

[The Fury]

Not two decades but for awhile now.

You were wrong though Cayman.

And so was I.


MY prediction was SOOOO much better then this. This is cheap. Mine was cool.

[Cayman]

You were wrong though Cayman.

And so was I.


MY prediction was SOOOO much better then this. This is cheap. Mine was cool.

The important thing is that he's back!

[The Fury]

The important thing is that he's back!

No he's not, Joey Q lied to us.

He said it wasn't the one that died. This book pretty much says it is. Eitehr that or Joey Q has no comprehension of time travel.

My way was WAY better. I mean it would have been cool, this is just...it's just not that exciting.

[Cayman]

No he's not, Joey Q lied to us.

He said it wasn't the one that died. This book pretty much says it is. Eitehr that or Joey Q has no comprehension of time travel.

My way was WAY better. I mean it would have been cool, this is just...it's just not that exciting.

Well, he said "the Captain Marvel who died will not be resurrected" and technically that's true.

[drwho]

I recall joe answering in interviews that the person that would be the new captain marvel was going to be seen in the books last year. He commented it being a character that is currently around. This whole bring him from the past thing i think was a real bad change of plans.

[Cayman]

I think they made the right choice. It's wrong for one of Stan Lee's classic superheroes to be dead.

[aniscape]

I think they made the right choice. It's wrong for one of Stan Lee's classic superheroes to be dead.

I hear ya... hero's aren't meant to die...*sniff* just look to my avatar :(


Poor Wendell ...come back soon and kick some evil cosmic butt with Captain Mar-vell...

[DoctorDoom]

This is the first time I regetted getting comic...Not because it wasn't well written or implausible...but justgot me with the whole time travel thing. A shame there wasnt anything in his comic past that they could have used for Marvell.... nah I'm just being stupid.

Also wasn't interested in the Sentry storyline.

[Harding Prime]

I think it has some promise to it for anyone who knows who he is and even if you don't know. This #0 was fine but it really had no business being a part of the civil war tie-ins. I understand why they did it of course but all the same.

Well...they are saying that he is the warden of 42, which is a direct correlation to Civil War.

[Berkey]

Well...they are saying that he is the warden of 42, which is a direct correlation to Civil War.

I suppose they are asking him to do so, but with what little there was to offer in this comic was just that little. I think if they would have had one or two issues prior to this month just calling it "The Return" (being which #1,2 would not have a CW banner)in which we would have gotten a back story and MARvel could have been up to date with the situation this one shot could have more of a direct involvment like having him take the position in the begining of the comic and hear his thoughts of the war and being back, while he's partoling or something like that.

[Chris N]

I think they made the right choice. It's wrong for one of Stan Lee's classic superheroes to be dead.

I guess he's one of Stan's superheroes. But Stan wrote exactly one issue.

And I just don't agree with that sentiment. Stories ending gives them power. Good characters deserve a good ending. Captain Marvel got one. So did Jean (back in 137, not the recent stuff). And it's fine. In life they were heroes; in death they were legends. Shouldn't happen often and without thought and care, but those two were good deaths.

[Cayman]

I guess he's one of Stan's superheroes. But Stan wrote exactly one issue.

And I just don't agree with that sentiment. Stories ending gives them power. Good characters deserve a good ending. Captain Marvel got one. So did Jean (back in 137, not the recent stuff). And it's fine. In life they were heroes; in death they were legends. Shouldn't happen often and without thought and care, but those two were good deaths.

I prefer life to death.

[Chris N]

I prefer life to death.

Ah, but death defines life, just as despair defines hope, or desire defines hatred, or as destiny defines freedom.

[Kevinroc]

Ah, but death defines life, just as despair defines hope, or desire defines hatred, or as destiny defines freedom.

And isn't the point of Captain Marvel now that he knows he has to go back to his time and eventually die?

Currently, it isn't as if Captain Marvel has actually been brought back to life. He's just stuck in the "present" for an indeterminate length of time with the knowledge that he has to go back someday and fulfill his destiny.

It's the Barry Allen concept that was never really used as Marv Wolfman originally intended. And DC did the same concept with Hal Jordan (before really bringing him back in GL Rebirth).

[Cayman]

Ah, but death defines life, just as despair defines hope, or desire defines hatred, or as destiny defines freedom.

In the real world, but comic characters endure.

[Johnny_H]

I liked the Captain Marvel segment. I hated the Sentry one however.
We already know why he registered, from New Avengers, this was a waste of space imo.

[Sean Whitmore]

Let me try to justify the somewhat lackluster Sentry story with this theory:

-It takes place before Civil War #4, possibly before the Act is passed and registration is still voluntary.

-Sentry decides all on his own that he believes in registration, without any convincing from Tony or legal imperative. Thus acting like a man for once.

-When Civil War #4, he is already registered (he obviously HAS to be, or Iron Man would be trying to arrest him too), but he still doesn't feel right about attacking his friends that haven't registered.

- He flies off into space in New Avengers #24 where he spends some time contemplating.

- Tony convinces Sentry that fighting their old allies is indeed the right thing to do, and brings him back to Earth in time for Civil War #6.


There we go. That should keep this off the LitG list of continuity mistakes that actually aren't.


SEAN

[garin]

Let me try to justify the somewhat lackluster Sentry story with this theory:I suppose that works. The question, then, becomes: did we really need to see it?

I'm sure everyone would rather they spent the pages on fleshing out the Captain Marvel stuff. Both stories suffered from Jenkins' tortured prose and strange second-person narration, but the Mar-Vell part is at least based around an interesting idea, and the one that people actually picked up the book for.

[Sean Whitmore]

I suppose that works. The question, then, becomes: did we really need to see it?

Oh, it was definitely just there to pad out what was essentially a Captain Marvel trailer. I'm just saying its existence doesn't cause any timeline mistakes.


SEAN

[Xanrn]

So does anyone else think the first bit with the whining Capekiller and then Marvel grabs his Bands and flys through his office window takes part during Civil War 7?

[Kevinroc]

So does anyone else think the first bit with the whining Capekiller and then Marvel grabs his Bands and flys through his office window takes part during Civil War 7?

Tom B. just said that Captain Marvel will appear in Civil War #7.

[DoctorDoom]

Then again I probably regretted Bucky returning at first... and was shown it can be good.(in WInter Soldier's case, great)

[jackolover]

Both stories suffered from Jenkins' tortured prose and strange second-person narration, but the Mar-Vell part is at least based around an interesting idea, and the one that people actually picked up the book for.

Yeah, I was hanging out for Jenkins take on Marvell, but it did kind of drag, and I had trouble understanding the story. I see some posters picked up on the story better than I did.

Another thing. They mention to look out for Captain Marvell #1, but solicits for the next two months don't mention it. I wonder when this story continues?

[Berkey]

Another thing. They mention to look out for Captain Marvell #1, but solicits for the next two months don't mention it. I wonder when this story continues?

That is one of the reaons why I beleive it has a Civil War tag on it. Besides his presence being the result of Tony and Reeds machine and a chance he could be the wardon of 42 there really isn't anything that involves the war. I think a large portion of reads may not know MARvel so they figured lets put a CW banner on it so everyone will pick it up and then go from there

[comicstar100]

So is marvel going to be in the big showdown for civil war 7?

[Berkey]

So is marvel going to be in the big showdown for civil war 7?

Nope they can't they haven't given a back story for Marvel and I don't even think he knows whats going on yet. Unless this took place at the beginig of the war or something. But my guess is no

[Will.S]

-When Civil War #4, he is already registered (he obviously HAS to be, or Iron Man would be trying to arrest him too), but he still doesn't feel right about attacking his friends that haven't registered.

- He flies off into space in New Avengers #24 where he spends some time contemplating.

- Tony convinces Sentry that fighting their old allies is indeed the right thing to do, and brings him back to Earth in time for Civil War #6.
Hmm, I would switch the NA #24 to be first, and then he registers in The Return. He probably went offworld to contemplate the registration act after it came about, then fights Absorbing man and decides to register.

Iron Man wouldn't be able to handle Sentry by himself again unless he had some psychic help. Most likely his talk with Sentry on the moon was to nudge him into the direction of registration.


So does anyone else think the first bit with the whining Capekiller and then Marvel grabs his Bands and flys through his office window takes part during Civil War 7?
Yeah I think it does or at least up to the point where Cap and his crew spring the prisoners, otherwise I wouldn't know in what other context it would be in.

[DDM]

Ok so I get Captain Marvel is going to eventually die. So wouldnt it be at a later time so the original story really no longer ever happend??? And could he possibly be saved now by treatments or something?? I just think it kind of cheapens what originally happend to him.

And where can I find the original story??

Captain Marvel was exposed to the lethal gas in Captain Marvel #34, but the effects were not felt for years until Marvel Graphic Novel #1: The Death of Captain Marvel. You can find all of the Jim Starlin Captain Marvel stories in The Life & Death of Captain Marvel TPB.

[DDM]

And isn't the point of Captain Marvel now that he knows he has to go back to his time and eventually die?

Currently, it isn't as if Captain Marvel has actually been brought back to life. He's just stuck in the "present" for an indeterminate length of time with the knowledge that he has to go back someday and fulfill his destiny.

It's the Barry Allen concept that was never really used as Marv Wolfman originally intended. And DC did the same concept with Hal Jordan (before really bringing him back in GL Rebirth).

I'm sure he will return to the present when his Captain Marvel series does not ignite readers to buy the book.

[DDM]

He may well join the Avengers at some point. Given that he's an honorary member.

Captain Marvel became an honorary member of the Avengers after he died from cancer. Since he's alive, this makes the honorary membership null & void. But I don't expect Marvel to actually know their continuity...

Yes, Captain Marvel, overall, is a cosmic character. He had cosmic adventures even though some of them took place on Earth.

[Will.S]

I actually just bought the Life and Death of Captain Marvel a few days ago. Pretty silly but fun cosmic stuff early into the book although I havent finished reading it.

[garin]

Captain Marvel became an honorary member of the Avengers after he died from cancer. Since he's alive, this makes the honorary membership null & void. Haha! I love the idea of the Avengers explaining to him that he can't be on the team because he's alive.

[taintedlunch]

I haven't read it, but this is one of the most critically-skewered books I've ever read about. Is this one of the worst comics of all time?

[Psyco panda]

http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/civilwarreturn.htm

Theres a good review. Its not th eworst, because frankly theres been some bad comics in the past. But its more pointless then bad.


Now, let's be clear about one thing: this comic is nowhere near as bad as people are saying. It seems to be gathering a reputation as one of the worst comics of the last few years, and really, that just shows what short memories people have. It's not that long ago that I was reviewing Chuck Austen stories about disintegrator communion wafers, which were in a whole different league of awfulness from anything to be found here. This is merely mediocre.

[Karl O'Neill]

It Was Crap

[superfriend]

http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/civilwarreturn.htm

Theres a good review. Its not th eworst, because frankly theres been some bad comics in the past. But its more pointless then bad.

O'Brien would know, he reads X-Men comics.
For those of us who don't torture ourselves by reading every X-Men comic produced, it's a pretty bad comic.

It's not the worst comic ever mind you, but it's got all of the ingredients for what is bad in comics today all sort've jumbled into one comic. The Return is an afterthought and not a very good one at that.

[agrich]

Seems like a lot of angst spent on a 10-page story that's basically a preview for an upcoming series.

It wasn't particularly good, but when I heard who was "Returning," I expected worse. Then I read it -- something which lends a lot more credence to those who want to criticize it -- and thought it was at least a way to do it without discarding the original death.

In the best case there will be some good stories that come out of it featuring a character who had relatively few in the first place. In the worst case it will be an uninteresting little endeavor that highlights why the character's original series was never a huge success and why Marvel decided to kill him off in the first place. It's not as if they said Peter Parker was actually a clone for 15 years, or claimed Tony Stark was a longtime stooge of Kang or anything.

[Jim Hall]

In the worst case it will be an uninteresting little endeavor that highlights why the character's original series was never a huge success and why Marvel decided to kill him off in the first place.

I agree whole-heartedly. This was a character that NO ONE was clamoring for him to return. The only reason that C.M. is perceived as one of the Marvel Universe's "Greatest Heroes" is because Marvel has retroactively been feeding us that line for years. When he was alive, Mar-Vell was not a major player, and could not sustain his own series. As a matter of fact, the strongest arguments for his importance to Marvel Comics are that the word Marvel is in his name, and it keeps DC from putting the name on the cover of any of their books starring their own Captain Marvel.

[Cayman]

If the writers of the past have let down Captain Marvel before, it's time to rectify that. He should be a standard-bearer character for Marvel and perhaps he will now get that chance.

[Chris N]

I haven't read it, but this is one of the most critically-skewered books I've ever read about. Is this one of the worst comics of all time?

No.

It was the most personally upsetting to me, though, and is causing me to reevaluate my buying habits in a major way.

[thetube]

Marvel has officially "Jumped the Shark..." Who the Hell is in charge over there these days? This ruins one of the best Graphic Novels of all time. If I was Starlin, I would be PISSED!!!

[Nevets F]

It was great.

[drwho]

I really think if done right this could pull a lot of readers into the Marvel cosmic universe and perhaps reinvogerate the cosmic characters so we can see more space based titles. Guess at this point only time will tell.

[Cayman]

Marvel has officially "Jumped the Shark..." Who the Hell is in charge over there these days? This ruins one of the best Graphic Novels of all time. If I was Starlin, I would be PISSED!!!

Not really. Assuming this Captain Marvel really is from that timeline, he still returns and dies as seen in the graphic novel.

Starlin has no right at all to be pissed. Marvel paid him to write that story and it was work for hire. Marvel owns the character and is free to dictate what is done with him. Starlin didn't even create the guy.

[taintedlunch]

Like I said, I haven't read it, but I've read a summary. If a guy has been dead for years and years, is an alien, and therefore not attuned to the subtleties of 21st century American politics, why the hell would you give him such an important job as warden of a super hero detention center? That's pretty damn awful. That's like if Elvis were suddenly discovered to be alive, having spent the last 30 years lost in time, and then immediately put in charge of Disney. Worse, even.

[Magneto Rocks]

Nah, nowhere near one of the worst. It's pointless, as many said. If the whole thing had been the Captain Marvel story then even the bd reviews would have been better. As it is, it's a waste of space.

It seems basically like a majority of 3 or 4 out of 10s. The worst comics ever get 1s.

[XPac]

Marvel has officially "Jumped the Shark..." Who the Hell is in charge over there these days? This ruins one of the best Graphic Novels of all time. If I was Starlin, I would be PISSED!!!

That was the one thing I liked about it... it didn't retcon the Graphic Novel.

In an otherwise completely mediocre story, they at least brought Captain Marvel back in a way which doesn't not necessarily have to conflict or retcon the Death of Captain Marvel Graphic Novel one bit.

And it does create a potentially interesting situation, where the character KNOWS he's going to die. So the ground work is there for something potentially good, even though this comic itself really isn't.

It franky should have found it's way into Frontline.

[Cayman]

Like I said, I haven't read it, but I've read a summary. If a guy has been dead for years and years, is an alien, and therefore not attuned to the subtleties of 21st century American politics, why the hell would you give him such an important job as warden of a super hero detention center? That's pretty damn awful. That's like if Elvis were suddenly discovered to be alive, having spent the last 30 years lost in time, and then immediately put in charge of Disney. Worse, even.

It's explained in the story. Tony & Co. wanted to keep him away from the Earth while the Civil War is on. They can't risk someone as beloved as Captain Marvel possibly joining the opposition.

Plus, he probably really hasn't been gone that long in Marvel years.

[taintedlunch]

It's explained in the story. Tony & Co. wanted to keep him away from the Earth while the Civil War is on. They can't risk someone as beloved as Captain Marvel possibly joining the opposition.

Plus, he probably really hasn't been gone that long in Marvel years.

Wow, that's really stupid. Nice try at shoe-horning him back into the Marvel Universe, though.

[Cayman]

Captain Marvel became an honorary member of the Avengers after he died from cancer. Since he's alive, this makes the honorary membership null & void. But I don't expect Marvel to actually know their continuity...

Yes, Captain Marvel, overall, is a cosmic character. He had cosmic adventures even though some of them took place on Earth.

That's ridiculous. He was made an honorary Avenger, not his corpse. He remains an honorary Avenger just like Thor will be still have been an Avenger after his resurrection or Wonder Man prior to his resurrection.

[Cayman]

Wow, that's really stupid. Nice try at shoe-horning him back into the Marvel Universe, though.

:rolleyes: Looks like you've given this lots of thought.

[Magneto Rocks]

It's explained in the story. Tony & Co. wanted to keep him away from the Earth while the Civil War is on. They can't risk someone as beloved as Captain Marvel possibly joining the opposition.

RIDICULOUS!

They can't let Mar-Vell back into the main universe because of a paradox, plus he's perfect to be the warden. It is NOTHING about him joining the Resistance.

[Cayman]

RIDICULOUS!

They can't let Mar-Vell back into the main universe because of a paradox, plus he's perfect to be the warden. It is NOTHING about him joining the Resistance.

Sure. I totally trust Tony's motives there.

[Mikl C]

It was terrible. Raney is horrible. The storyline is lame. They copped out on a cop out.

[Blake Petit]

The worst part, aside from Mar-Vell returning, is how damn boring it was. It felt like they had two extra back-up stories leftover from "Frontline," so they decided to put them into a one-shot.

[Nevets F]

Captain Marvel became an honorary member of the Avengers after he died from cancer. Since he's alive, this makes the honorary membership null & void. But I don't expect Marvel to actually know their continuity...



Sometimes you have to be joking.....you just have to be.

"Sorry Mar-vell, your honorary status is revoked! You are alive! You can't join us! nyah nyah!"

[Cayman]

Well if Jenkins's interpretation was a miss with people, Marvel can learn from this and assign someone else to do the mini or series.

[Kevinroc]

I'm sure he will return to the present when his Captain Marvel series does not ignite readers to buy the book.

Don't you mean "return to the past"?

And considering how wrong you've been on just about everything else Marvel Comics has done lately, I don't see why you still try and make predictions.

[XPac]

RIDICULOUS!

They can't let Mar-Vell back into the main universe because of a paradox, plus he's perfect to be the warden. It is NOTHING about him joining the Resistance.

But isn't the better sollution to try and return him to where he belongs rather than making him the warden in your jail?

The fact that they are seperating him and putting him to work rather than helping him get back to where he belongs does raise the question of whether or not Stark has some sort of plan for him.

He may join the resistance... he may not. If he finds his kid on one side, that would make an interesting variable though hardly a definative one. That said, Tonys motives and actions at this point seem questionable.

[Kevinroc]

But isn't the better sollution to try and return him to where he belongs rather than making him the warden in your jail?

The fact that they are seperating him and putting him to work rather than helping him get back to where he belongs does raise the question of whether or not Stark has some sort of plan for him.

He may join the resistance... he may not. If he finds his kid on one side, that would make an interesting variable though hardly a definative one. That said, Tonys motives and actions at this point seem questionable.

At this point, readers are questioning ANYTHING Tony does. He could go to the bathroom and readers would question his motivation.

[Pendaran]

I still don't really buy this whole "knows the date and time of his death"/"fated to die" thing, T'challa hilarity aside, one of the particular points about his death was that it took a long, long while for the cancer to get as bad as it did, and part of why he died was that when it was noticed, it was too late for various things. He kinda has time now, in spades. It makes the angst something of a plot hole.

[DDM]

Don't you mean "return to the past"?

And considering how wrong you've been on just about everything else Marvel Comics has done lately, I don't see why you still try and make predictions.

Mar-Vell's death makes him a more important character dead than alive. It's like Marvel Comics editors consulted lawyers to make this storyline. Furthermore, having a past Captain Marvel in the future from the mainstream Marvel Universe does not make sense to be a prison warden. Mar-Vell is a Kree warrior & champion of Earth.

As far as my predictions? My gut instinct is correct most of the time especially with Marvel.

I don't see Captain Marvel's new series lasting for more than 2 years. Given the current market, it will probably last less than a year or 12 issues before cancellation.

Marvel could have done a much better job bringing in Captain Marvel without it being Mar-Vell. There's an infinite amount of directions writers can go with Captain Marvel, yet Marvel took the safest route possible.

[Kevinroc]

As far as my predictions? My gut instinct is correct most of the time especially with Marvel.


See, that's the thing. It's really not. You don't even know who the creative team is on the Captain Marvel relaunch. Or even if it is an ongoing or a mini.

[DDM]

That's ridiculous. He was made an honorary Avenger, not his corpse. He remains an honorary Avenger just like Thor will be still have been an Avenger after his resurrection or Wonder Man prior to his resurrection.

The Avengers made Mar-Vell an honorary member after his death. Captain Marvel was never an Avenger in any capacity while alive.

[Cayman]

Mar-Vell's death makes him a more important character dead than alive. It's like Marvel Comics editors consulted lawyers to make this storyline. Furthermore, having a past Captain Marvel in the future from the mainstream Marvel Universe does not make sense to be a prison warden. Mar-Vell is a Kree warrior & champion of Earth.

As far as my predictions? My gut instinct is correct most of the time especially with Marvel.

I don't see Captain Marvel's new series lasting for more than 2 years. Given the current market, it will probably last less than a year or 12 issues before cancellation.

Marvel could have done a much better job bringing in Captain Marvel without it being Mar-Vell. There's an infinite amount of directions writers can go with Captain Marvel, yet Marvel took the safest route possible.

Wow, we don't even have it confirmed as an ongoing yet and you've already got the book cancelled.

How is it the safest route to bring back the one true Captain Marvel when that automatically gets a bunch of cancer-death fetishists up in arms? The safest route would probably be resurrecting the modestly popular Genis again and giving him back the title.

[XPac]

At this point, readers are questioning ANYTHING Tony does. He could go to the bathroom and readers would question his motivation.

Well, that is rather suspicious behavior for a comic book character, because they almost NEVER have to go to the bathroom. So why start now?

[Cayman]

The Avengers made Mar-Vell an honorary member after his death. Captain Marvel was never an Avenger in any capacity while alive.

So? Once an honorary Avenger, always an honorary Avenger.

[ducklord]

At this point, readers are questioning ANYTHING Tony does. He could go to the bathroom and readers would question his motivation.

Heck yeah, I'd question it. I mean, doesn't his suit kinda automatically take care of waste management? I betcha it converts it into energy, too...

Talk about your repulsor rays,
Mike

[G. Wayne]

... I can't help but bang my head on the table everytime someone gets Absorbing Man's powers wrong since he doesn't absorb other people's powers unless they were made of a specific element or energy like sand, electricity, metal, stone and so on. Bruce Jones did a wacky thing with him too by making him all psychic and stuff.

Also with the way Sentry worked with his powers here, I have to wonder how Bendis will use him in Mighty Avengers considering how powerful he really is. I guess he'll be having him hold back his powers often kind of like he did in NA but he didn't have a whole lot of pure Sentry showings...

Aren't Sentry's powers supposed to be light-based and/or derived? (I know about the serum, that's not what I'm referring to.) The power of a million exploding suns and all that?

[DMike]

Like I said, I haven't read it, but I've read a summary. If a guy has been dead for years and years, is an alien, and therefore not attuned to the subtleties of 21st century American politics, why the hell would you give him such an important job as warden of a super hero detention center? That's pretty damn awful.

See, of all my potential problems with The Return (or the return itself), them picking him to be the warden is by far the most understandable and explainable.

1) Aside from Reed himself, what other hero knows or has as much experience in the Negative Zone as Mar-Vell?

2) Given his soldier background and NASA experience, Mar is one of the more sensical heroes on the Pro side to be running 42. He's one of the more administrative heroes the MU has had.

3) Out of all the Pro-Reg heroes, Mar-Vell is one of the ones I can genuinely believe would be for registration. He was a high-ranking soldier in the Kree military, and while he did rebel against them, that was more about the fact that they were gonna invade Earth itself than the way the Kree military/government was run (he certainly wasn't going around trying to liberate other Kree-conquered planets). The Kree never seemed to be ones for civil liberties, and that's never seemed to be a factor in Mar's motivations here or in the past.

[taintedlunch]

See, of all my potential problems with The Return (or the return itself), them picking him to be the warden is by far the most understandable and explainable.

1) Aside from Reed himself, what other hero knows or has as much experience in the Negative Zone as Mar-Vell?

2) Given his soldier background and NASA experience, Mar is one of the more sensical heroes on the Pro side to be running 42. He's one of the more administrative heroes the MU has had.

3) Out of all the Pro-Reg heroes, Mar-Vell is one of the ones I can genuinely believe would be for registration. He was a high-ranking soldier in the Kree military, and while he did rebel against them, that was more about the fact that they were gonna invade Earth itself than the way the Kree military/government was run (he certainly wasn't going around trying to liberate other Kree-conquered planets). The Kree never seemed to be ones for civil liberties, and that's never seemed to be a factor in Mar's motivations here or in the past.


Tony Stark must get hiring advice from Al Davis.

[PunisherFan]

This issue stunk. The way Mar-Vell returned was so incredibly weak. I did however like seeing The Absorbing Man get vaporized.

[Helander]

Personally, Captain Marvel is a character I would have rather seen stay dead. or away, or whatever. His return cheapens his death. His legacy does not need any addition.

That said, now that we're stuck with this, I see potential. I would like to see this as a mini-series that concludes with him returning to his own time in some fashion. I would rather not see him as a permanent fixture in the MU unless it's cosmically.

[ColdFury]

This issue stunk. The way Mar-Vell returned was so incredibly weak. I did however like seeing The Absorbing Man get vaporized.

I liked it too, back in the Quasar Acts of Vengeance tie in. Sigh.

[Shyft]

hm, wasn't impressed really. Neither story line felt like it had been given enough room. and the art wasn't all that.

[Mikl C]

Oh yeh! Also: YOU FREAKING OFFED THE ABSORBING MAN YOU B@%£$"£S

[Pendaran]

Eh, Creel gets blown up all the time, he always comes back. Even the Sentry noted that.

[Sijo]

3) Out of all the Pro-Reg heroes, Mar-Vell is one of the ones I can genuinely believe would be for registration. He was a high-ranking soldier in the Kree military, and while he did rebel against them, that was more about the fact that they were gonna invade Earth itself than the way the Kree military/government was run (he certainly wasn't going around trying to liberate other Kree-conquered planets). The Kree never seemed to be ones for civil liberties, and that's never seemed to be a factor in Mar's motivations here or in the past. Marvel WAS loyal to the Kree, originally, even though he himself was a victim of their racial prejudice; but that faith was quickly eroded by a series of betrayals, from his superior, from subversive factions in the Kree Government and ultimately even the Supreme Intelligence. By the time he was named Protector of the Universe and granted Cosmic Awareness, he was beyond such loyalties and merely dedicated himself to the good of all- a true hero. I still have a hard time seeing him as a Pro-Reg stooge, unless they claim his Cosmic Awareness foresaw it was the right thing to do (which would be about as convincing as Reed's calculations) or as I theorized, he just isn't the real Mar-Vell, but only thinks he is. We'll see.

Question: Will Captain Marvel show up in Civil War #7? You'd think so, but with Millar's "don't care about what happens in the tie-ins" attitude, it's not certain.

[Sludgefactory102]

this comic was terrible... just terrible

[TassleTREX]

I already miss Absorbing Man. The stupidest elite supervillain of all time, I'm sure even The Frog could figure out a way to beat him. I'm sure Bendis will bring him back within the year, but you have to ask yourself, can you handle a year without the Absorbing Man? Lean days ahead, my friends.

[jackolover]

I still have a hard time seeing him as a Pro-Reg stooge, unless they claim his Cosmic Awareness foresaw it was the right thing to do (which would be about as convincing as Reed's calculations) or as I theorized, he just isn't the real Mar-Vell, but only thinks he is. We'll see.

Gee another thing crossed my mind. What if Mar-Vell did encounter the future MU, back before he died, and he saw heros fighting heros in some far off future event? That would be some interesting retcon in a mini series. Much like the Illuminati mini-series currently running, retelling history we never knew was there.

[BigBoss]

my guess is real thor.

[Will.S]

I still have a hard time seeing him as a Pro-Reg stooge, unless they claim his Cosmic Awareness foresaw it was the right thing to do (which would be about as convincing as Reed's calculations) or as I theorized, he just isn't the real Mar-Vell, but only thinks he is. We'll see.
I don't really see him being on either side, he seemed kind of confused and pretty much just went with it for the time being.


Question: Will Captain Marvel show up in Civil War #7? You'd think so, but with Millar's "don't care about what happens in the tie-ins" attitude, it's not certain.
If somehow he ends up anti-registration I would love for him to show up in CW#7 but barring that I kind of doubt we'll be seeing him but hey anything can happen in #7 it seems.

[Sean Whitmore]

Question: Will Captain Marvel show up in Civil War #7? You'd think so

I wouldn't. Civil War has its own story to finish, one that has zero to do with Marv. Bringing him in (in any significant way) in the last issue of the series would just be bad storytelling.

Unless he just pops up in group fight scene with no dialogue...in which case, who cares if he's there or not?


SEAN

[Brian M.]

World War Hulk: The Return

Spider-Man: "Uncle Ben...what...what are you doing?"

[Harding Prime]

I wouldn't. Civil War has its own story to finish, one that has zero to do with Marv. Bringing him in (in any significant way) in the last issue of the series would just be bad storytelling.

Unless he just pops up in group fight scene with no dialogue...in which case, who cares if he's there or not?


SEAN

Or he finds regestration to be a bad idea and be the only one to take out the Sentry.

[Sean Whitmore]

Or he finds regestration to be a bad idea and be the only one to take out the Sentry.

Honestly, despite his power level, I would be surprised if Sentry is given a large role in the next issue. It might happen, but it's pretty poor form to introduce someone in a group scene in the second-to-last chapter and suddenly make him the one to beat, y'know what I mean?


SEAN

[Harding Prime]

Honestly, despite his power level, I would be surprised if Sentry is given a large role in the next issue. It might happen, but it's pretty poor form to introduce someone in a group scene in the second-to-last chapter and suddenly make him the one to beat, y'know what I mean?


SEAN

True, he's not a main character, but something has to happen for him to go down, something big...

[leftfield]

True, he's not a main character, but something has to happen for him to go down, something big...

I agree - he is too major a character to be left out - otherwise they should have had him fly into space when he was having his cry me a river moment on the moon

[Sean Whitmore]

I suppose if they had to, they could always take him out of the picture the way Iron Man did when he took over Cloc. Not the same way, I mean, just do something that makes his craziness act up and sends him into a corner for a while.

It'd be funny if Cloak, Silhouette, and the Shade took him down. "Oooh, look, Bob, the Void! The scary Void's gonna geeeet yoooou!"


SEAN

[Harding Prime]

I suppose if they had to, they could always take him out of the picture the way Iron Man did when he took over Cloc. Not the same way, I mean, just do something that makes his craziness act up and sends him into a corner for a while.

It'd be funny if Cloak, Silhouette, and the Shade took him down. "Oooh, look, Bob, the Void! The scary Void's gonna geeeet yoooou!"


SEAN

Sentry is suppose to be there Superman, but really he is just a mental midget. I have already written before that we add him with Iron Man as the biggest douches in MU. But of course I kid with IM a little, he sucks, but at least he knows he's an asshole, the sentry is just the worst idea Marvel came up with, at least tied for...with about 400 other ideas.

[Magneto Rocks]

Mar-Vell is in '7, it's confirmed.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Cap use some trick to take out the Sentry in just a page or two- it won't be something enormous and spectacular.

[leftfield]

Sentry is suppose to be there Superman, but really he is just a mental midget. I have already written before that we add him with Iron Man as the biggest douches in MU. But of course I kid with IM a little, he sucks, but at least he knows he's an asshole, the sentry is just the worst idea Marvel came up with, at least tied for...with about 400 other ideas.


See I disagree - I like the idea of the Sentry - he is an f'd up Superman - Its what if Superman had regular mental breakdowns - he is his own weakness.

Also if the battle all goes down in the Neg Zone - Sentry is apparently weak in there (according to the mini series) so a couple of bigger guys could take him down I suppose. Or even a mind control guy that was imprisoned

[Sean Whitmore]

Mar-Vell is in '7, it's confirmed.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Cap use some trick to take out the Sentry in just a page or two- it won't be something enormous and spectacular.

That's about the only way I can see it working. Treat Marv and Sentry as just another couple people on the battlefield, just like, say, Prodigy and Solo.


SEAN

[jackolover]

Sorry if these things have been addressed earlier, but the thread is too ling to revue.

2 Questions :-

1. What issue of Captain Marvel was he sitting in the Negative zone cross-legged contemplating some big issue, as he was in 'The Return'?

2. What is the big change that Sentry is referring too about himself, in 'The Return'? Did Sentry actually make the 42 out of WatchTower technology hot wired to himself in some way?

[jackolover]

He's currently /wayyy/ off from that state, it took him a long while to reach it. Someone with, say, a cure for all forms of cancer, could probably help the dude out. He certainly has enough time.

It's funny that right at this moment in Doc Strange, Stephen is searching for this wonder drug that can cure cancer. Wouldn't it be a hoot if Strange administered it to Marv?

[Kevinroc]

Wizard #185 states that Captain Marvel will star in a limited series.

No word on the creative team.

[CMBMOOL]

Wizard #185 states that Captain Marvel will star in a limited series.

No word on the creative team.

Thank goodness a limited series. :)

[Kevinroc]

Thank goodness a limited series. :)

I can't say I blame Marvel. Just look at the sales on some of those series DC launched out of Infinite Crisis.

[MAK15]

Thank goodness a limited series. :)

yeah, the limited titles tend to be better than the ongoings, IMO

[Kevinroc]

According to the Wizard article, Mar-Vell already had his run-in with Nitro but hadn't yet shown signs of being sick.

No real date for the mini except for "later in 2007."

It sounds like Captain Marvel will also be sticking with Tony Stark's side and the mini will focus on his adventures on Earth. Seems a bit of a waste not to use him to explore the post-Annihilation cosmic landscape.

[Pro]

Marvel's return is such bull .. honestly if he dies in this day and age the whole MU deserves to go under with him due those pro-reg morons setting up a time paradox. What the hell were they thinking ripping someone from his own time to make him a warden of an other-dimensional prison??

[DoctorDoom]

I can't say I blame Marvel. Just look at the sales on some of those series DC launched out of Infinite Crisis.
Indeed. At least Secret Six was cool.

[Sean Whitmore]

What the hell were they thinking ripping someone from his own time to make him a warden of an other-dimensional prison??

When you say "they", do you mean Marvel or Iron Man's side?


SEAN

[Pro]

When you say "they", do you mean Marvel or Iron Man's side?

Iron Man's side, marvel's motivation is pretty clear. But surely Iron Man and certainly reed richard must know or at the very least theorise that if Marvell dies in say a prison break the entire universe is going down the drain.
It doesn't seem worth pulling someone from the past just to be a warden.
What special something does capitain marvel have that makes it worth risking the entire universe to make him a warden of the negative zone prison?

[Sean Whitmore]

Iron Man's side, marvel's motivation is pretty clear.

Oh, okay, then you misunderstood somewhere along the line. Iron Man and Co. didn't pull Marv out of time. The reason for his time displacement is as yet unknown. The Pro-Reggers just found him and gave him something to do while he's stuck in the present.


SEAN

[Pro]

Ah guess i did indeed misunderstood that part then. Truth be told i read through it in the comic store and drew the wrong conclusion as to how he got to be there. I blinked and put it back on the shelf. It still sounds like a pretty crappy storyline ..

[Jadeskies]

You could also say, "We know he dies in the past so theres no way he will die as the warden of this prison, he cant die.... its his destiny to die in the past."

[Pro]

You could also say, "We know he dies in the past so theres no way he will die as the warden of this prison, he cant die.... its his destiny to die in the past."

Sure and why bother chasing after Legion when he traveled back in time and nearly destroyed the entire universe messing up the timeline .. after all Xavier wasn't destined to die in the past and yet he did.
We've seen more than one case in which timedisplaced characters almost wrecked history simply by being timedisplaced and mucking things up.
You could just as easily claim that it was Marvel's destiny to get timedisplaced and destroy the universe when he causes a timeparadox.
It's still a silly plot. Here you have a group of characters perfectly willing to beat the crap out their friends because some civilians might get hurt but when you got a potential timeparadox running about capable of wiping out history itself you make him a warden so he can pass the time before being drawn back to die of cancer?

Meh.

[Harding Prime]

Sure and why bother chasing after Legion when he traveled back in time and nearly destroyed the entire universe messing up the timeline .. after all Xavier wasn't destined to die in the past and yet he did.
We've seen more than one case in which timedisplaced characters almost wrecked history simply by being timedisplaced and mucking things up.
You could just as easily claim that it was Marvel's destiny to get timedisplaced and destroy the universe when he causes a timeparadox.
It's still a silly plot. Here you have a group of characters perfectly willing to beat the crap out their friends because some civilians might get hurt but when you got a potential timeparadox running about capable of wiping out history itself you make him a warden so he can pass the time before being drawn back to die of cancer?

Meh.

Exactly, that's why there is 1000 different Marvel U alternate reailites as these places go on. But if he did die in the present it would switch to another alternate universe and somehow 616 would have to stay in tack. I don't think they are going down that angle again to soon. It still seems that they JUST DID House of M.

[Titanium]

I'm going to go with the theory this isn't Mar-vell. It's Genis, all confused from being ripped apart by the moonstones. He'll slowly begin to understand that as he as Mar-vell learns about Genis and Phylla and maybe an encounter with Thanos' ghost.

[DoctorDoom]

Did you guys read Paul's response on Newsarama? Funny guy.

[Pyro]

Did you guys read Paul's response on Newsarama? Funny guy.I didn't think it was very funny. It seemed to me like he was responding to the internet community, rather than actual criticisms of the book. Also, he didn't seem to have much respect for Marvel's standards of creativity... he was basically saying he was just doing his job when someone came to him with a dumb idea. It makes me even less interested in his work.

[Magneto Rocks]

I think he was fully justified in that Newsarama had the most over the top, ridiculous reaction to The Return that I can recall for any book- and Newsarama has a substantial amount of ridiculous, over the top negative reactions to anything Marvel does.