Classic Beyonder - Information

[Michael Demiurgos]

Before the Beyonder entered the Multi-verse there was nothing. (http://img283.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buni2ke0.jpg)

Beyonder (-and Molecule man, will get back to him) enters . . . (http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buni3oe1.jpg)

Beyonder creates the Multi-verse. (http://img226.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b3rk8.jpg)

Beyonder creates an infinity amount of universes. (http://img283.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buni4xn9.jpg)

In a universe life starts: He have created mankind. (http://img468.imageshack.us/my.php?image=buni5it5.jpg)

And Beyonder's status there is . . . God. (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b2fk6.jpg)

[Michael Demiurgos]

The entire Watcher race agrees that to interfere with the Beyonder is unheard of. (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchercouncilti2.jpg)

All the abstract's ( . . . Yes even the Living Tribunal) begged of the Beyonder not to unmake Death. (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=abstractsbegbeyonder2wr7.jpg)

The Beyonder does it anyways . . . (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondernodeathjo1.jpg)

Beyonder remade Death . . . (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderressurectsdeath2ij8.jpg)

Now Death is too afraid to speak with her ex-murderer. (http://img78.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondertalkingtodeath2kx4.jpg)

[Michael Demiurgos]

The onlyone everyone thought could be a match compared to Beyonder was Molecule man, the Watcher begged him to stop the Beyonder. (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uatubeggingmmbo6.jpg)

Screw the Watcher's, all the abstract's beg's Molecule man. (http://img270.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mo1ao2.jpg)

Since they are both from the Beyond realm.

[Michael Demiurgos]

Beyonder destroys the Multi-verse. (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderdestructionacrossmultiversesf 2.jpg)

Molecule man remakes it with a finger. (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse2g v0.jpg)

Beyonder destroyes Molecule man's dome (life-work) like a joke. (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sdomepc9.jpg)

They battle. (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondervsmmpv7.jpg)

Beyonder let's out a blast that reaches the ends of the Multi-verse. (http://img162.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderdestructionacrossmultiverse3e c9.jpg)

Again the Molecule Man does the impossible . . . Not only does he shield all the heroes that were at the scene while battling the Beyonder . . . But he also removed every living thing that was in the blast's path across the Multi-verse . . . And placed them somewhere in sub-space. (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mmyy0.jpg)

The incredible ending... Everything Beyonder did... He did it while imposing limitations on himself. - In other words, while he defeated Molecule man, destroyed the Multi-verse, he just used a fraction of his power, he never used it to is maximum potential. (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderimposinglimitsqn6.jpg)

[Michael Demiurgos]

Beyonder is everything inside inside the Multi-verse. (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderisrealitydw2.jpg)

Beyonder is everything outside the Multi-verse. (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondspacetime2pq7.jpg)

Beyonder could do anything. (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondercandoanythingml3.jpg)

Beyonder was the living emybodiment of supreme power. (http://img394.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyonderisthelivingsupreme4cq.jpg)

Beyonder was more powerful than the rest of the Multi-verse (beings, energies, matter ect.) millions of times combinded. (http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondermillionsofxmorepowerfu.jpg)
This is only because Molecule man was present in the multi-verse at the same time, and he had a fraction of Beyonder's powers.

All the abstract's agree that Beyonder is the most powerful being in existance, even the Living Tribunal (http://img280.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mo2ds6.jpg) - what happend to the one above all?

Best feat for the last: He could have shatter the entire time-stream - In other words, make so the Multi-verse never existed. (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondercouldshatterthetimestreamzx6. jpg)

[Joe Acro]

I couldn't keep reading after the second post. This stuff makes absolutely no sense...

[Slade.]

I couldn't keep reading after the second post. This stuff makes absolutely no sense...


Lmao.....so true

[Expletive Deleted]

Uh . . . why?

[Joe Acro]

Are you wondering why this is here or why I believe it makes no sense?

[Expletive Deleted]

The former. I'm wondering what Michael is trying to do, here.

[Joe Acro]

Because the classic/post-retcon Beyonder is underestimated here? ;)
It doesn't make sense for various cosmic reasons, one of which is that only one Eternity appears to confront the Beyonder.

[Pro]

I have no clue what the post retcon beyonder is all about, i only read about the original one ...

[Gnarl]

They're letting Jim Shooter post now?

[bd2999]

I have no clue what the post retcon beyonder is all about, i only read about the original one ...

Beyonder during SW 1 and 2 was basicly presented as the absolute being in Marvel. He did what he wanted to about everyone and so on. It was an interesting concept until SW 2 where they sacrificed the entire Marvel cosmic pantheon to make him look good.

Later in a Fantastic Four issue it was revealed that The Beyonder was nothing more than a cosmic cube and the major cosmic players had let him percieve that he had defeated them all and was omnipotent to teach him a lessen of one kind or another. I think it was to show him his place in the universe, and he was shown that he was a small fish by two other cube beings who were more powerful than he, yet knew more of the innerworkings of the universe, so they were trying to teach him his role I guess. Does not make much sense does it? Basicly the abstracts, CElestials and GAlactus were said to let Beyonder when so that later he could learning he was not the ultimate power and was just a small fish. The whole ordeal was stupid but they needed to do it in order to make everything fit in the context of Marvel hierarchy of the cosmos.

One question, have I changed someone's oppinion about the Pre-retcon Beyonder

Whose minds were you trying to change? Anyone who read the original books knows what he once was and that he was basicly absolute in power.

[Hulk Strongest One]

Since they are both from the Beyond realm.


Ahhh, that was when life was good and the pecking order was proper. Note even the Living Tribunal was there. LT < Molecule Man < Beyonder

At this point in time, the author understood magnitudes and math and so on; i.e. was not mathematically illiterate, i.e. innumerate.

Why? The Molecule Man gathered up much of the spare energy in the multiverse then released it on a blast on the Beyonder, which would have "slagged several billion dimensions". No good. Yes, I'm sure Galactus could stand up to an attack that would destroy several billion universes. :rolleyes:

Yeah, Galactus "let" the Beyonder, who could destroy the whole universe with a thought, beat him. :rolleyes:

[Simon Garth]

This may seem heretical on this thread, but I'm going to say it anyway: the Beyonder was a bloody awful idea who appeared in some truly terrible stories, when Marvel was driving itself into the ground (creatively, if not financially).

Apparently, he's now a cosmic cube. A fairly daft retcon, but better than leaving him as he was.

Better still would be to make him make himself never have existed, preferably taking all those Secret Wars comics out of history with him.

[Lord S]

Because the classic/post-retcon Beyonder is underestimated here? ;) I think you mean pre-retcon...oh well. I don't see the point of clinging to the past. The current Beyonder (in the form of Maker) is dead, as per the 'Annihilation: Silver Surfer' series.

[Shellhead]

I am sorry, i should have asked first. :(
However, people forget how powerful he was back then.

Personally, I've been trying to forget the Beyonder completely. Especially his poofy hair.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

They're letting Jim Shooter post now?

Someone has to justify that horrid perm job and the jumpsuit he wore I suppose.

[Pike]

I think you mean pre-retcon...oh well. I don't see the point of clinging to the past. The current Beyonder (in the form of Maker) is dead, as per the 'Annihilation: Silver Surfer' series.

I thought if his body died though he would be released again? That was the point of the Thanos series I thought?

[Cthulhudrew]

I thought if his body died though he would be released again? That was the point of the Thanos series I thought?

Yep- that's what Thanos as much as said in that story arc. Since Giffen's the one that wrote that arc, and is also the one currently writing Annihilation, I'd be very surprised if the Beyonder remains "dead."

[Ghost Writer]

Rachel Summers the Phoenix uses all her powers to muster as a Phoenix avatar. (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondervsrachelds6.jpg)

The Beyonder don't even flinch. (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beyondervsrachel2kf1.jpg) You should have posted the additional panels with this. Had you done so, it would have illustrated the whole truth... He flinched. In fact, he did more than flinch.

Good thread though. I always enjoyed the SW runs.

[Norrin Radd]

No comments or questions?

Just one:

You're sullying my memories of 80s Marvel.

[static]

the image of the entire universe bowing to a guy in a members only jumpsuit and a jerry curl perm is the absolute essence of that time in comics...

[Cthulhudrew]

the image of the entire universe bowing to a guy in a members only jumpsuit and a jerry curl perm is the absolute essence of that time in comics...

Hey- that's the power of the Soul Glo! (http://letyoursoulglo.ytmnd.com/)

[Jadeskies]

I think a lot of people are underestimating what role the beyonder served in the 80's beyond "Nigh omnipotant guy with cheesy hair."

What happens when you introduce someone who has unlimited power and only a barely existant sense of responcibility to the universe and all those in it? Someone who decides to be an avenger because he can and he wants to only to show he can and to have some fun. What happens when the worlds heroes feel they have to stop him because he obviously shows a lack of emotional control and responcibility? What happens when the one guy who even has a shot at fixing this mess caused by the beyonder doesn't really want to do anything but be with his girlfriend? (Molecule man).

It creates a huge tragic story that can only be solved through the combined efforts of the heroes of that time in crossover events. Crossover events were what sold me on marvel over dc. Continuity.

Plus I would not be surprised if he returned after Wanda let so many cats out of the bag.

[Hulk Strongest One]

But then again; Stan Lee himself confirmed in an interview back in the 80´s that:

In other words, Beyonder had the power of the writers.
In other words, he's the comic-reincarnation of the wrtier.

I made this thread, because people here follow the crappy information on Wikipedia about the Beyonder.
But back then he was like "the one above all" or the "supreme being".

One question, have I changed someone's oppinion about the Pre-retcon Beyonder?


Retconning him as "just a cosmic cube" seems to amplify the cubes.

There was an old What If story where one guy starts absorbing cosmics. He becomes more powerful than any one being, but not more powerful than the combined beings (and powerful space navies), which band together to stop him. Ultimately he destroys the entire universe with the ultimate nullifier.

This story took it to the next step -- a being who was more powerful than all the other characters, combined. He could do anything, and that included reconfiguring the universe so Death was no more, and reconfiguring the universe so Galactus was no more.

Some people didn't like seeing Celestials get slapped down (Galactus wasn't a problem -- that was well-handled in SWI) so they retconned it with the stupidest line written in comics since Squirrel Girl.

And then what? Repeated it all a few years later with the Infinity Glove anyway. Smack around Galactus and Celestials and cosmics, whatever.

But you do have an unresolved illogical conflict in the Marvel universe:

1. Galactus "let" him win -- a claimed statement, never demonstrated (demonstration clearly, page after page, shows Galactus and other cosmics getting pwned, badly, over and over again)

2. The Beyonder contains energies and powers that greatly exceed the energy of the universe -- perhaps billions of universes -- a demonstrated feat regardless of any retcon wording.

So if some writer wants to reconcile this, that would be nice. Quite frankly, I'm tired of Thanos putting a cube in a containment unit it can't break out of, or some buffoon writer having someone gather together 30 cubes just to make the Infinity Glove burp for 0.02 nanoseconds.

[Norrin Radd]

I think a lot of people are underestimating what role the beyonder served in the 80's beyond "Nigh omnipotant guy with cheesy hair."

What happens when you introduce someone who has unlimited power and only a barely existant sense of responcibility to the universe and all those in it? Someone who decides to be an avenger because he can and he wants to only to show he can and to have some fun. What happens when the worlds heroes feel they have to stop him because he obviously shows a lack of emotional control and responcibility? What happens when the one guy who even has a shot at fixing this mess caused by the beyonder doesn't really want to do anything but be with his girlfriend? (Molecule man).

It creates a huge tragic story that can only be solved through the combined efforts of the heroes of that time in crossover events. Crossover events were what sold me on marvel over dc. Continuity.

Plus I would not be surprised if he returned after Wanda let so many cats out of the bag.

I agree that the concept of the Beyonder could be interesting, but the execution was horrid. I mean, the whole series had really bad dialogue, plots, and even the art wasn't great for those days. And I'm saying this as a fan of 80s Marvel, the original Secret Wars (which was flawed, I admit) , and a defender of Jim Shooter. I'd say that the actual crossover issues for Secret Wars II, such as X-Men, DD, and FF, weren't bad at all, but the main 9-issue series was beyond obscene (pun intended). Jim Shooter did this "god among men" concept much better in the earlier Avengers Korvac storyline.

[Ite]

Awesome awesome thread, Beyonder really was the most powerful thing ever in comics, besides God.

[bd2999]

Awesome awesome thread, Beyonder really was the most powerful thing ever in comics, besides God.

Only if you ignore the Infinity Gauntlet and Marvel: The End things that have Thanos in them with nearly all the power there is to have.

The Beyonder was a pointless idea, and the fact that they wanted to make Molecule Man greater than all the abstracts was rediculous. I can't believe people liked the guy that much at all. The retcon still was not that bad. Look what Thanos did with the cube, he was doing some impressive stuff like catching Chronos and bending space and time easily.

[Camron Amaya]

Anytime you take away all the mystery and uknown it sucks. Like in real life we don't know what's out there and how powerfull, or if there is a God, or what he is, where the universe starts, ends, blah blah, all that mumbo jumbo.

But when you make a character that controlls everything, destroyes everything in a blink, remakes it etc.. It just takes away everything good about the universe and the world. It feels cheaper and you're left feeling like "meh".

Like Alan Moore said, when Superman reversed time in the movie and saves Lois it felt kinda cheap and I felt cheated. It cheapens the whole death it becomes meaningless.

Why should I care if Spiderman does this, or this story goes this way when tomorow the Beyonder might destroy everything and remake it.

[Ite]

Only if you ignore the Infinity Gauntlet and Marvel: The End things that have Thanos in them with nearly all the power there is to have.

The Beyonder was a pointless idea, and the fact that they wanted to make Molecule Man greater than all the abstracts was rediculous. I can't believe people liked the guy that much at all. The retcon still was not that bad. Look what Thanos did with the cube, he was doing some impressive stuff like catching Chronos and bending space and time easily.

Thanos with the Gauntlet isn't as powerful as Beyonder at his peak.

[bd2999]

Thanos with the Gauntlet isn't as powerful as Beyonder at his peak.

The only thing that was different was that the beings of Marvel did not understand what the Beyonder was at all in the original stories, they underestimate Thanos and he defeated them all as easily as the Beyonder did. The only think the IG did not seem able to do was defeat the LT, but even then the conflict between Warlock with the IG and LT seemed to be something of a stalemate.

At his peak the Beyonder was basicly like Thanos with the Heart of the Universe, able to do whatever. The thing is its retconned. All of the stuff he did, either didn't happen or was pulled into the context of the MU. SW was good and if they left it at that then yeah Beyonder would still be interesting, but even then Doom with Galactus's power was able to defeat and take some of Beyonder's power. The second was when everything bad happened and the story needs to be forgotten. I am not sure why there has to be an omnipotent Beyonder for some, what interesting points would that raise? How many times do we need to see a character gain nigh omnipotence.

Plus there is no way to say that Beyonder is more powerful than Thanos with IG. At the start the IG gems were parts of the Supreme being so together they gave power to do whatever, they were retconned too but are still uber powerful, now much more than the current Beyonder.

[ednemo]

Awesome awesome thread, Beyonder really was the most powerful thing ever in comics, besides God.

Which god?

All of the gods in the Marvel Universe aren't even close to the Beyonder's power.

And there is no Judeo-Christian god in the MU. (Though some do believe in him.)

Unless you count the times when they have talked to a comic creator.