warren ellis+gen-x =cancelled?

[curefreak]

i just read warren ellis's first issue with generation x and i really hated it,
i dont think he understood the characters at all and turned emma into an even bigger bitch than she already was not to mention the art was completly different from terry dodsons whom i felt captured the fun and the teenage-ness perfectly.
so im curious if he ruined the book and got it cancelled? or maybe it was already headed that way i cant be sure.

[Jake V]

He intentionally ruined it in the hopes it would piss you off 8 years later.

[Kaos]

Damn Him To Hell

[curefreak]

He intentionally ruined it in the hopes it would piss you off 8 years later.
i knew it !

[Madrox84]

I for one liked his run on the title.

[Beast]

He intentionally ruined it in the hopes it would piss you off 8 years later.
Ayep. He and I laughed about it back then, waiting for this day to occur. :)

[jawbreaker]

it was cancelled to shift the attention to the new kids in Morrisons New X-Men...
:mad:

[streator]

dancing+kevin bacon=trouble?

[Atom_basher]

The xmen board should be renamed the Lion's Den

[The Mirrorball Man]

Ayep. He and I laughed about it back then, waiting for this day to occur. :)
The Prophecy! The Prophecy has been fulfilled!

[Syzygy]

As I recall, he made the book great again after it had had a long stint in the X-doldrums.

As for cancellation, I believe it was a condemned property when he got it.

Sorry you didn't like it, Curefreak, but I loved it.

Peace,
Syzygy

[curefreak]

As I recall, he made the book great again after it had had a long stint in the X-doldrums.

As for cancellation, I believe it was a condemned property when he got it.

Sorry you didn't like it, Curefreak, but I loved it.

Peace,
Syzygy
at first i was under the impression that it was ellis's fault but now it seems that quesada felt there was too many x-books for whatever reason.
i still dont think ellis's got them very well in my opinion and i think it hiolds up since he has swore off mainstream comics since then (according to wikipedia)
but i dont have anything against the man personally.

[Tobias March]

i still dont think ellis's got them very well in my opinion and i think it hiolds up since he has swore off mainstream comics since then (according to wikipedia)
but i dont have anything against the man personally.

Are you kidding? He declared a 'Year of the Whore', some two years ago, pumping out product for the two biggest comic companies out there - and he's still going. Ellis is all over Marvel like a rash, at least the patches that haven't been staked out by Bendis & Millar and DC's Wildstorm is still dependent on a lot of his concepts. Transmet has originally created for a sf imprint offshoot Helix but has become one of his most popular titles and a big seller for Vertigo.

Wiki couldn't even claim he's sworn off Superheroes - Nextwave is a superhero comic that's, heaven forfend, fun! And the Thunderbolts looks like an elabourate joke at the expense of Bendis' New Avengers.

[Steven F.]

i just read warren ellis's first issue with generation x and i really hated it,
i dont think he understood the characters at all and turned emma into an even bigger bitch than she already was not to mention the art was completly different from terry dodsons whom i felt captured the fun and the teenage-ness perfectly.
so im curious if he ruined the book and got it cancelled? or maybe it was already headed that way i cant be sure.

Got a question for you....seriously, do you ever post anything positive?

[curefreak]

Got a question for you....seriously, do you ever post anything positive?
im sure that i have.

[Alan2099]

im sure that i have.
No no! The line was supposed to be, "I'm positive that I have."

Honestly, Generation X seemed to have been slowly going down hill since shortly after the AoA ended. Ellis just madde it worse. I never got the feeling that he understood the characters at all.

[curefreak]

No no! The line was supposed to be, "I'm positive that I have."

Honestly, Generation X seemed to have been slowly going down hill since shortly after the AoA ended. Ellis just madde it worse. I never got the feeling that he understood the characters at all.
thank you for that.:)

[Tobias March]

Honestly, Generation X seemed to have been slowly going down hill since shortly after the AoA ended. Ellis just madde it worse. I never got the feeling that he understood the characters at all.

At the risk of sounding like an Ellis apologist no matter what...I think he approached GenX the same way he does most of his revamps. He takes a Gordian Knot approach, this title hasn't been working so turnover to the other side and start again. See his first issue of Stormwatch or his other Counter X books, which he only accepted on the condition that he could alter them howsoever he chose.

This is the guy who announced his retirement from Excalibur for reasons of confusing X-continuity. And after he did such a bang up job on that title after its similar slump into the doldrums.

So perhaps GenX wasn't handled properly. It certainly hadn't been handled properly though for some time. I remember when Roger Cruze took over the art chores from Bachalo briefly - I couldn't read the thing! Bacholo and Lobdell together combined in such a way as to make the title interesting and entertaining, but separate, it just seemed ho-hum.

Generation X was painfully mishandled for the majority of its run. It was an attempt to recapture the appeal of the New Mutants. Sometimes it hit that mark. But the ultimate fate of the book, as well as the various deaths that have been meted out to its characters that I grew up with, well - it was just a waste.

[curefreak]

At the risk of sounding like an Ellis apologist no matter what...I think he approached GenX the same way he does most of his revamps. He takes a Gordian Knot approach, this title hasn't been working so turnover to the other side and start again. See his first issue of Stormwatch or his other Counter X books, which he only accepted on the condition that he could alter them howsoever he chose.

This is the guy who announced his retirement from Excalibur for reasons of confusing X-continuity. And after he did such a bang up job on that title after its similar slump into the doldrums.

So perhaps GenX wasn't handled properly. It certainly hadn't been handled properly though for some time. I remember when Roger Cruze took over the art chores from Bachalo briefly - I couldn't read the thing! Bacholo and Lobdell together combined in such a way as to make the title interesting and entertaining, but separate, it just seemed ho-hum.

Generation X was painfully mishandled for the majority of its run. It was an attempt to recapture the appeal of the New Mutants. Sometimes it hit that mark. But the ultimate fate of the book, as well as the various deaths that have been meted out to its characters that I grew up with, well - it was just a waste.
see i thought most of the artwork was pretty good especially terry dodson.

[jawbreaker]

I liked the issues with the individual kids(like the Chamber one with the deaf girl) and the final issue but i thought he tried to make them act a little too painfully bad ass....in fact it reminds me of what Craig & Yost just did with Academy X...

[Zero Hunter]

The only book that was any good at all out of the Ellis revamp was X-Man, and that wasn't even his best work. Gen X and X-Force were both killed under him. It was the usual Ellis thing. He does not care at all about mainsteam books. He has said so on many many occasions, and it always shows through in his work. I have yet to read any of his mainstrem marvel work that has been any good in my eyes. The closestest thing to really good Was Doom 2099 and that was more outside the mainstream than most of his Marvel stuff. On the flip side most of the originall stuff he comes up with is great, and you can see he actully cares about what he is doing and isn't just phoneing it in for the money.

Ellis has never been a great seller on mainstream projects which is makes me wonder why they keep trying to shove him onto things that don't really let his talent shine through. That is why I don't hold out much hope for his Thunderbolts revamp to really be the monster hits marvel is trying to hype it into.

[jarrod]

I liked Counter Generation X actually... it was nice to see the book at least try to evolve past it's basic New New Mutants concept. The "political rights" angle worked especially well for Jubes and Pagie I thought, and I even started to recognize Emma again following Farber's unfortunate "mommy dearest" makeover.

Funny though that Counter X-Force was such a misfire, especially after Moore's super enjoyable nostalgia trip. How the pairing of the best X-team at the time plus Pete Wisdom could go so horribly wrong I'll never know...

[fishtaco]

Honestly, Generation X seemed to have been slowly going down hill since shortly after the AoA ended. Ellis just madde it worse. I never got the feeling that he understood the characters at all.Wasn't Generation X suspended temporarily for Generation Next after issue #3 (or around there somewhere)?

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

the warren ellis/brian wood generation-x was the bestthe title had been since lobdell. the first arc was a bit iffy, apart from th great focus on jubillee, but the next two arcs were phenomenal!!

special nods to the M/Jubilee issue (finally someone managing to capture their chemistry so perfectly) and the Chamber solo issue. Steve Pugh is also the bst thing to happen on that title, putting the kids in their best uniforms yet

[TimGunn]

I liked the uniforms.

[Syzygy]

the warren ellis/brian wood generation-x was the bestthe title had been since lobdell. the first arc was a bit iffy, apart from th great focus on jubillee, but the next two arcs were phenomenal!!

special nods to the M/Jubilee issue (finally someone managing to capture their chemistry so perfectly) and the Chamber solo issue. Steve Pugh is also the bst thing to happen on that title, putting the kids in their best uniforms yet

Agree. I also liked Ellis' X-Force.

I don't believe that he was responsible for their cancellations. Can anyone verify that with inside comics industry info?

I suspect both titles weere on their way down and out when he was brought in.

Peace,
Syzygy

[curefreak]

Agree. I also liked Ellis' X-Force.

I don't believe that he was responsible for their cancellations. Can anyone verify that with inside comics industry info?

I suspect both titles weere on their way down and out when he was brought in.

Peace,
Syzygy
like i said quesada cancelled it because he thought there was too many x-books but i have a feeling that he wouldnt have cancelled it if it was selling in high numbers.

[Syzygy]

like i said quesada cancelled it because he thought there was too many x-books but i have a feeling that he wouldnt have cancelled it if it was selling in high numbers.

If it's bringing in, net, more than is going out, there's no reason to cancel it, whether the sales are humongous or modest, so it sound like it was not really Ellis' fault.

Peace,
Syzygy

[jawbreaker]

I read that Gen X was still selling pretty well but he cancelled it to make way for the class in Morrison's New X-men. Which makes no sense cuz the Gen X kids werent even studying in the same mansion...but when does Mavel make sense?

[curefreak]

I read that Gen X was still selling pretty well but he cancelled it to make way for the class in Morrison's New X-men. Which makes no sense cuz the Gen X kids werent even studying in the same mansion...but when does Mavel make sense?
i just cant believe anyone would be stupid enough to cancel something thats selling.

[The Lucky One]

The xmen board should be renamed the Lion's Den

What do we have to do with a porn shop?

As I recall, he made the book great again after it had had a long stint in the X-doldrums.

As for cancellation, I believe it was a condemned property when he got it.

Not sure I'd go that far... actually, Jay Faerber was doing some damn good work on that title, making the characters actually interesting again and the stories fun to read, after Hama's bizarre run. And the Dodsons were turning in some terrific artwork, especially in the storyline where Gen X were sent back in time into the bodies of the Hellions... on the day they died. I was sorry to see Jay go, especially since he used to post here pretty regularly at the time.

-D

[NewChad]

I don't think ANY of Ellis' 'Counter X' titles worked.

X-Man was the best. It broke Nate away from the clone-alternate-reality-child-whatever his backstory was and gave the character a strong purpose.

But Gen X and X-Force came off being Ellis-by-numbers. Dark and moody for the sake of being dark and moody.

If they'd happened one at a time it may have been more effective, but all three titles at once was just Ellis-overload.

His direction on Gen X was interesting, I was less a fan of the art than the writing.

None of it was wrong, or bad, just felt a little off...

But realistically, where do you go after Hama makes M/Penance/Em-pate more confusing than the Summers family!?!

[curefreak]

I don't think ANY of Ellis' 'Counter X' titles worked.

X-Man was the best. It broke Nate away from the clone-alternate-reality-child-whatever his backstory was and gave the character a strong purpose.

But Gen X and X-Force came off being Ellis-by-numbers. Dark and moody for the sake of being dark and moody.

If they'd happened one at a time it may have been more effective, but all three titles at once was just Ellis-overload.

His direction on Gen X was interesting, I was less a fan of the art than the writing.

None of it was wrong, or bad, just felt a little off...

But realistically, where do you go after Hama makes M/Penance/Em-pate more confusing than the Summers family!?!
i think that whole thing should win an award for most confusing thing in a comic book ever.

[Ryan K]

I thought the reason for cancellation was Ultimate X-Men not Morrison's New X-Men? Ultimate X-Men was going to be dealing with training young mutants like Generation X and they didn't want overlapping themes like that.

[The Lucky One]

i think that whole thing should win an award for most confusing thing in a comic book ever.

If it wants to challenge the Summers family or the Hawkman mystery for that title, it's more than welcome to.

-D

[curefreak]

If it wants to challenge the Summers family or the Hawkman mystery for that title, it's more than welcome to.

-D
well im not sure whats confusing about the summers family except they have three kids from alternate future timelines
and they had a nut clone jean and have his baby
and he might possibley have a third summers brother somehow wich will probably get retconned out of existence because it sounds ridiculous.
as for hawkman its an a or b thing i think either you believe hes a resurrected egyptian god or scientist or hes a thanagarian police man.
as for penance i had a good idea what was going on until the twins came out of her and somehow switched places with m but it didnt seem to really change anything about m's personality and i guess the twins are with there father so the mystery remains who is inside penance?

my brain hurts :(

[DHX]

synch.


warren ellis killed synch

i havent read anything by ellis since.

[curefreak]

synch.


warren ellis killed synch

i havent read anything by ellis since.do you want to hug it out?

[DHX]

we can hug but i dont think there's anything to get me to read ellis again.

[curefreak]

we can hug but i dont think there's anything to get me to read ellis again.
i wouldnt blame you personally :) (hugs)

[That JonoGuy]

i just read warren ellis's first issue with generation x and i really hated it,
i dont think he understood the characters at all and turned emma into an even bigger bitch than she already was not to mention the art was completly different from terry dodsons whom i felt captured the fun and the teenage-ness perfectly.
so im curious if he ruined the book and got it cancelled? or maybe it was already headed that way i cant be sure.

Everyone else pretty much summed up the reason for it being Cancelled. Ellis came on to revitalize the book probably due to lacking sales. The fact that a jarring creator change with Ellis did not bring up the sales solidified its demise. I remember a lot of fans being upset with direction of the book.

Personally, i could have done without the first Ellis plotted arc. The following arcs however really brought back life into the series. It was pretty much too late by then for it to make a difference. I really feel Brian Wood had a good handle on the characters. I truly wish he could have had a longer run. I wasn't the biggest fan of the art of Steve Pugh, but it did grow on me. He did however draw one of the best looks for Jubilee in a long while. He really seemed to be able to capture her essence. *sigh* I miss the book.

[curefreak]

Everyone else pretty much summed up the reason for it being Cancelled. Ellis came on to revitalize the book probably due to lacking sales. The fact that a jarring creator change with Ellis did not bring up the sales solidified its demise. I remember a lot of fans being upset with direction of the book.

Personally, i could have done without the first Ellis plotted arc. The following arcs however really brought back life into the series. It was pretty much too late by then for it to make a difference. I really feel Brian Wood had a good handle on the characters. I truly wish he could have had a longer run. I wasn't the biggest fan of the art of Steve Pugh, but it did grow on me. He did however draw one of the best looks for Jubilee in a long while. He really seemed to be able to capture her essence. *sigh* I miss the book.
i really didnt like they way they made jubilee look stereotypically asian especially when shes never been portrayed that way before.

[That JonoGuy]

i really didnt like they way they made jubilee look stereotypically asian especially when shes never been portrayed that way before.

You don't think an asian character should look asian? Isn't it more a fault of the previous artists for not making her look asian? From what i recall Terry Dodson worked on making her look Asian as well, so it wasn't just something Pugh did.

[curefreak]

You don't think an asian character should look asian? Isn't it more a fault of the previous artists for not making her look asian? From what i recall Terry Dodson worked on making her look Asian as well, so it wasn't just something Pugh did.
theres a difference between looking asian and looking like a stereotype.
its a fine line but i think most people who have drawn jubilee understand it.

[That JonoGuy]

theres a difference between looking asian and looking like a stereotype.
its a fine line but i think most people who have drawn jubilee understand it.

Well, i guess i'd rather she look asian than a white chick.

[curefreak]

Well, i guess i'd rather she look asian than a white chick.
youre still not understanding what im saying.

[That JonoGuy]

youre still not understanding what im saying.

I guess i don't.

[curefreak]

I guess i don't.
thats allright you're not the first.

[That JonoGuy]

Okay. My question to you is this then. Which artist do you think drew the best Jubilee during her run in GenX?

[curefreak]

Okay. My question to you is this then. Which artist do you think drew the best Jubilee during her run in GenX?
well i dont really notice how well jubilee is drawn i just notice how well everything is drawn but i think terry dodson really captured them well i mean it was bright and wonderfull and they had neat somewhat dorky costumes.
but i might just remember him the most cause he was one of the last ones.
of course you cant take anything away from bachalo although sometimes his stuff is so dark and shadowy and detailed its hard to tell whats actually going on sometimes i still like him when hes not making theyre heads too big like he did after a while.