Question for a long time reader who has just came back

[Drunkenthumbs]

I've been reading Marvel and the x books in particular since the mid 80's(I loved Scott Lobdell) and stop write around the twelve story line all the years of hype and it was ruined. I came back for the 3rd Astonishing Xmen series (Joss Whedon)I've picked up the Grant Morrison run in trades it was cool but that wasn't xmen. Recently I picked up the Phoneix Song Trade and I have a question have they retconned the orginal Jean/Phoneix relationship remember the Phoneix had supposedly replaced Jean and it was Phoneix not Jean who died on the Moon while Jeam was in a common or suspened animation undergroung which is why Sinister created Madelyn Pryor so she could have a baby with Cyclops who would grow up and kill Apcoalypse.

It seems now the xbooks don't really acknowledge that and that the Jean and Phoneix was just one enitity all along. Has it been officially established anywhere? Thanks.

edit: forgive the spelling please.

[Mikl C]

Question Thread. (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=132932)

And my head hurts from trying to understand you.

[Michael Sean]

I've been reading Marvel and the x books in particular since the mid 80's(I loved Scott Lobdell) and stop write around the twelve story line all the years of hype and it was ruined. I came back for the 3rd Astonishing Xmen series (Joss Whedon)I've picked up the Grant Morrison run in trades it was cool but that wasn't xmen. Recently I picked up the Phoneix Song Trade and I have a question have they retconned the orginal Jean/Phoneix relationship remember the Phoneix had supposedly replaced Jean and it was Phoneix not Jean who died on the Moon while Jeam was in a common or suspened animation undergroung which is why Sinister created Madelyn Pryor so she could have a baby with Cyclops who would grow up and kill Apcoalypse.

It seems now the xbooks don't really acknowledge that and that the Jean and Phoneix was just one enitity all along. Has it been officially established anywhere? Thanks.

edit: forgive the spelling please.

Well theres a history there.

In fact, Chris Claremont wrote some backstories to the Classic X-Men series that were published between 1986-1990 that addressed the retcon elements (force, idea that she was replaced, and cocoon)...

And showed and stated that the real Jean Grey had in fact been Phoenix/Dark Phoenix.

The problem was that editors, other writers, and many fans either ignored them or didn't know about them.

Much later, in Grant Morrison's New X-Men run (New X-Men #114-154), Morrison wrote Jean Grey as being the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix character, as being a type of Phoenix herself (a White Phoenix of the Crown) through genetic mutation, being connected to the Phoenix Consciousness, as dying to return, and having a cosmic destiny to go to the White Hot Room (afterlife in the M'Krann crystal) sometimes when she dies to perform Phoenix Work (burning what doesn't work) on the universe.

She isn't literally replaced by the Phoenix but more like naturally consumed by her Phoenix Consciousness. When she returns from the White Hot Room she is reborn from a new body from a Phoenix Egg (Reworking of the cocoon concept).

However, Phoenix Warsong and Brubakers Blade of the Phoenix subplot in his current storyline Rise and Fall of the Shiar Empire may change some of this.

Unfortunately Marvel seems hell bent on eternally going back and forth as to whether Jean was or was not Phoenix/Dark Phoenix and whether she is the Phoenix force or not.

Hopefully they will just stick with Claremont's and Morrison's interpretation of the Phoenix which imho are the best explainations and largely compatible with each other.

[Drunkenthumbs]

Well theres a history there.

In fact, Chris Claremont wrote some backstories to the Classic X-Men series that were published between 1986-1990 that addressed the retcon elements (force, idea that she was replaced, and cocoon)...

And showed and stated that the real Jean Grey had in fact been Phoenix/Dark Phoenix.

The problem was that editors, other writers, and many fans either ignored them or didn't know about them.

Much later, in Grant Morrison's New X-Men run (New X-Men #114-154), Morrison wrote Jean Grey as being the Phoenix/Dark Phoenix character, as being a type of Phoenix herself (a White Phoenix of the Crown) through genetic mutation, being connected to the Phoenix Consciousness, as dying to return, and having a cosmic destiny to go to the White Hot Room (afterlife in the M'Krann crystal) sometimes when she dies to perform Phoenix Work (burning what doesn't work) on the universe.

She isn't literally replaced by the Phoenix but more like naturally consumed by her Phoenix Consciousness. When she returns from the White Hot Room she is reborn from a new body from a Phoenix Egg (Reworking of the cocoon concept).


However, Phoenix Warsong and Brubakers Blade of the Phoenix subplot in his current storyline Rise and Fall of the Shiar Empire may change some of this.

Unfortunately Marvel seems hell bent on eternally going back and forth as to whether Jean was or was not Phoenix/Dark Phoenix and whether she is the Phoenix force or not.

Hopefully they will just stick with Claremont's and Morrison's interpretation of the Phoenix which imho are the best explainations and largely compatible with each other.

Thanks. I guess that's the best I'm going to get would like to get some official clarification but thanks.

[gforce99]

Thanks from me too.

I read all the old Claremont issues and I read X-Factor (including the Avengers issue when the cocoon is found--who was that, Roger Stern?).
So I always assumed that was the true story, not as screwed up version.

My head hurts now too.

[mattbib]

Check out the Phoenix (Jean Grey) (http://marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_%28Jean_Grey%29) and Phoenix Force (http://marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force) entries on Marvel.com. That's as "official" as you're going to get.

[Drunkenthumbs]

Check out the Phoenix (Jean Grey) (http://marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_%28Jean_Grey%29) and Phoenix Force (http://marvel.com/universe/Phoenix_Force) entries on Marvel.com. That's as "official" as you're going to get.

Interesting so the Bullshit fake Jean take it the actual truth.