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View Full Version : Who is the DCU's "Science Hero?"



Mac Danny
10-05-2006, 06:46 AM
I was reading Some Marvel this week. Remarking to myself how thematically similar some things in Civil War are to Infinite Crisis or more directly the road to Infinite Crisis. Seems to me that DC and Marvel have analogous characters for the most part, but the one I can't place is an analog for Mr Fantastic? I can't think of a Dc Comics character that is a "Science Hero" I know Challengers of the unknown was similar to the FF but Who is the DCU's resident genius?

Is there anyone in the DCU who is on par in brains and scientific know how with Reed Richards?

SamuraiJack
10-05-2006, 07:17 AM
I was thinking about this the other day and it had me stumped. I know there are a few characters who are supposed to be science-based, but none of them really show the knack for invention that Reed has. If I had to pick a parallel I'd probably say Mr. Terrific, although he's not nearly as intelligent as Reed (but he IS considered a genius). You have The Atom as well, but again- no real genius there.

There's got to be someone else, but whoever that is their name escapes me at this point...

Mac Danny
10-05-2006, 07:22 AM
I was thinking about this the other day and it had me stumped. I know there are a few characters who are supposed to be science-based, but none of them really show the knack for invention that Reed has. If I had to pick a parallel I'd probably say Mr. Terrific, although he's not nearly as intelligent as Reed (but he IS considered a genius). You have The Atom as well, but again- no real genius there.

There's got to be someone else, but whoever that is their name escapes me at this point...

Good to know I am not the only one thinking of this.. I don't know if there is one. Maybe Adam Strange?

Maybe there isn't one. Also on a side not, as far as analog characters go I would put Iron Man as currently analogous to Batman. Both smart, both run big companies, only one is everything a Human could be. The other is everything technology could be.

Currently neither seem terribly trusting.

TheTen-EyedMan
10-05-2006, 07:24 AM
http://www.crapfilter.net/images/ProfessorFrink.JPG

I'm a kind of science type person....mmnnnhhh...flavin.

Paragon
10-05-2006, 07:36 AM
It seems to me as if the DC heroes tend to specialize more, with only a few generalists.

I would go for Mr Terrific and the chief from Doom Patrol as the closest parallel I can think of, off hand.

It also seems that the villains tend to be intellectually stronger.
T.O Morrow. Professor Ivo, Sivana, Luthor, Ultra Humanite, Per Degation, Vandal Savage etc.

SamuraiJack
10-05-2006, 07:50 AM
Good to know I am not the only one thinking of this.. I don't know if there is one. Maybe Adam Strange?

Maybe there isn't one. Also on a side not, as far as analog characters go I would put Iron Man as currently analogous to Batman. Both smart, both run big companies, only one is everything a Human could be. The other is everything technology could be.

Currently neither seem terribly trusting.

Two things work against Strange, at least for me:

1) He's a human on an alien world (or at least he was) surrouded by high tech.

2) He was last seen down in the dumps and destitute (during Planet Heist, which was pretty damn good).

He's shown some flashes of insight, but never the raw creative genius of someone who's highly intelligent.



It also seems that the villains tend to be intellectually stronger.
T.O Morrow. Professor Ivo, Sivana, Luthor, Ultra Humanite, Per Degation, Vandal Savage etc.

TOTALLY agree with that- the villains definitely have an edge in the smarts department, which makes sense- every hero needs a 'Mad Scientist' type to go up against.

This just hit me- wouldn't Batman be considered a 'science hero'? After all, he's got the inventions, the detective skills, and the superior intelligence (hell, he's got plans to take down the entire DCU, both heroes and villains), so shouldn't he be up there?

skally19
10-05-2006, 07:58 AM
dr magnus?

Bat-Mite
10-05-2006, 08:08 AM
Hellloooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

THE ATOM!

The new Atom series is all about Atom being a scientist.

Also, the Challengers of the Unknown, and idea Kirby later recycled for Fantastic Four.

lordlad
10-05-2006, 08:09 AM
Adam Strange, Captain Comet fits the bill ?

SamuraiJack
10-05-2006, 08:11 AM
Hellloooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

THE ATOM!

The new Atom series is all about Atom being a scientist.

Also, the Challengers of the Unknown, and idea Kirby later recycled for Fantastic Four.

I named The Atom, but do you really think he's on par with Reed? That was the question if I read it correctly...

If we were just talking science-based guys, then you'd have to include Barry Allen and a host of others- what MacD wanted was someone who directly compared to Mr. Fantastic's genius and creativity.

Bat-Mite
10-05-2006, 08:17 AM
I don't think he has to be on par with anybody to be a Science Hero, just to have science and the life of a scientists as integral parts of his theme. Atom basically, as portrayed in the current series, is an explorer scientist who fights crime with his powers and scientific principles.

Sean Walsh
10-05-2006, 08:41 AM
The Atom, without a doubt. Doc Magnus as well.....

J'onn and the GLs (Hal and John, moreso than Guy) also seem to be go-to guys for sciencey things...

Dr. Mid-Nite and Mr. Terrific too.

Mac Danny
10-05-2006, 08:49 AM
Dr Magnus I think fits the criteria. I haven't read much if any metal men but he seems pretty damn smart and creative.

The Atom (Ray Palmer) I would consider closer to Hank Pym. Smart guy, but not even close to Reed.

Batman for me is still Iron Man. Using technology to augment his abilities, but not the abstract creative that Reed is.

jerrymcl89
10-05-2006, 08:57 AM
Mr. Terrific is almost certainly the closest. Most of the others have a specific area of expertise that they stay in (other than Batman, who inevitably knows what he needs to know, but isn't primarily written as a scientist). Ted Knight (at least as he was written in the Robinson Starman series) was another good comparison.

Jack
10-05-2006, 09:02 AM
Of course it's the Atom. This is incredibly easy.

SamuraiJack
10-05-2006, 09:16 AM
Is there anyone in the DCU who is on par in brains and scientific know how with Reed Richards?

I don't understand how you all can say this is incredibly easy if you're using the parameters quoted above...

Matthew E
10-05-2006, 09:16 AM
The Atom is the obvious choice. Neither Ray Palmer nor Ryan Choi are geniuses on the level of Reed Richards, perhaps, but both are in the top echelon of physicists.

Barry Allen was quite the science hero in his day, as was Metamorpho in quite a different way. Even Batman, kind of. Dr. Manhattan.

Let's not forget about Brainiac 5, either: no powers, but still a member of the Legion because he's the smartest person in comics. He's actually more of a scientist than a superhero. (Element Lad would also qualify as a science hero, and possibly Invisible Kid.)

Count Vertigo
10-05-2006, 09:41 AM
Dr. Magnus
The Atom (2 and 3)
Cave Carson
The original Secret Six
Sea Devils
Rip Hunter
Challengers of the Unknown
Sea Devils
Mr. Terrific II
Mr. Miracle (engineering etc)

Damo
10-05-2006, 09:44 AM
There there Steel. It's because of your lame new powers that they've forgotten what made you great.

Mac Danny
10-05-2006, 09:44 AM
Of course it's the Atom. This is incredibly easy.

The Atom is a bright guy, but let me know when he opens a portal to another dimension because he has some time to kill.

The Atom works within the confines of phyisics that Other people discovered. Reed sets the boundries of science that the Atom works within.

So no, It ain easy.

marshal99
10-05-2006, 09:49 AM
Mr. Terrific seemed to be the tech wiz , they certainly used him as such for the just finished Action comics arc.

Sean Walsh
10-05-2006, 10:42 AM
Mr. Miracle (engineering etc)

You just totally reminded me of that line in IDENTITY CRISIS where Ollie's talking about the people investigating Sue Dibny's murder scene. "His name is no gimmick" or something along those lines - a something that put a big smile on my face when I read it. :)

NormanB
10-05-2006, 10:50 AM
Detective Chimp, bitches!

Matthew E
10-05-2006, 11:25 AM
The Atom is a bright guy, but let me know when he opens a portal to another dimension because he has some time to kill.

The Atom works within the confines of phyisics that Other people discovered. Reed sets the boundries of science that the Atom works within.


Well, if that's our standard, then Brainiac 5 has got to be the guy, because that is the kind of thing he tends to do.

But you don't need to have your intelligence/scientific mojo torqued up quite that high to qualify as a 'science hero'. I think even Green Lantern might have qualified as something of a science hero back in the Silver Age.

shaunyc56
10-05-2006, 11:41 AM
I think Mr Terrific can be elevated to Reed Status, but the way he's been used lately makes him so much more interesting that deus ex Reed. Also I think it's kind of funny that w/ the almost ridiculous physical powerlevels in DC, they keep the Intellects advanced, but reasonable. Except in the case of Mad Scientists, but that's fun as hell.

Mac Danny
10-05-2006, 12:57 PM
Well, if that's our standard, then Brainiac 5 has got to be the guy, because that is the kind of thing he tends to do.

But you don't need to have your intelligence/scientific mojo torqued up quite that high to qualify as a 'science hero'. I think even Green Lantern might have qualified as something of a science hero back in the Silver Age.


I agree with Braniac 5 being the one. Now if only he wasn't from the future..

Matthew E
10-05-2006, 01:48 PM
Hey, it's not DC's fault that Marvel doesn't set any of their comics in the future.

Beta Ray Bill
10-05-2006, 02:06 PM
I agree with Braniac 5 being the one. Now if only he wasn't from the future..Vril Dox II maybe? I would say Lex if he wasn't such bastard. He's got most the requirements, both pre-crisis and post-crisis versions.

Kid Kyoto
10-05-2006, 03:33 PM
back in the day I would vote for barry Allen, part of his shtick was coming up with new vaguely scientific uses for his speed.

Lex Luther is probably the closet to Reed Richards in intelligence though.

Babylon23
10-05-2006, 03:52 PM
In the pre-Crisis days, you could have included Superman, the guy that could build robot doubles of himself, and seemed to know (and defy) all the laws of physics. Pre-Crisis Supes was a genius.

Anyway, Adam Strange is definitely a science hero. In most of his solo adventures, he used science more than physical strength to resolve problems. Even in 52, while blind, he still manages to repair the space craft, and link himself into it's systems in order to "see".

I agree with everybody regarding Brainiac 5, Mr. terrific and the Atom.

Also, the way Batman has been written over the past few years, I'd say he's comparable. He's basically been unstoppable. Let's not forget that he built Brother Eye.

Gozwald73
10-05-2006, 05:32 PM
Vril Dox II maybe? I would say Lex if he wasn't such bastard. He's got most the requirements, both pre-crisis and post-crisis versions.

Vril Dox II for sure. Both he and Marij'n have that "super-genius" sciency-thing going on. Dox more specialised in the physical sciences (physics, chemistry, technology etc), Marij'n in the life sciences (biology, medicince, xenology etc), but both fit the bill in the scientific genius stakes.

Rylon
10-05-2006, 06:20 PM
Hey, it's not DC's fault that Marvel doesn't set any of their comics in the future.Marvel does have a Future Marvel Universe Team, The Guardians of the Galaxy.

Erebus
10-05-2006, 07:00 PM
I wouldn't consider Batman a "science hero." He's multi-talented.

ChthonicSpirit
10-05-2006, 07:20 PM
SCIENCE!!!!!

Hah. I can't really think of anyone post-crisis who fits the bill. Reed was, remember, a product of the Stan lee era, where science heroes were still the rage. If we count Wildstorm as part of DC, then we have the Engineer - a lady who turned herself into a superhero by creativity and innovation - but in the regular DCU the villains seem more apt than the heroes.

Sad, that. I hadn't realized 'til now how much the new Steel sucks.

CossackBueh
10-06-2006, 12:08 AM
Rex "Tick Tock" Tyle. I mean he created miraclo and Hourman III. In my mind, the dcu tends to compartmentilaze the sciences to various heros. If you want medicine you turn to Doc Midnight and so on.

Paragon
10-06-2006, 01:10 AM
Let’s try and group the buggers per discipline.

I am only using heroes as the OP indicated.

Temporal physics:
Rip Hunter

Quantum physics:
The Atom

Astro physics:
Adam Strange, Starman

Forensic science:
Batman, Barry Allen

Engineering:
Steel

Medicine:
Dr Mid-nite

Chemistry:
Rex Tyler.

Robotics:
Will Magnus

Computer science:
Oracle

Invention:
Ted Kord (RIP), Mr Miracle.

Genetics / Biology:
Alec Holland, ???

General:
Mr Terrific, The Chief,

Not associated with Earth:
Vril Dox (Brainiac), Captain Comet, Ganthet the guardian.

Furure:
Brainiac 5.

Plot Device Level/ Unknown:
J’onn J’onzz has the knowledge of the entire Martian race contained in his make up. He should be above Reed in many ways. He has never used this consistently though.
Some days he can build space ships and next he can’t tell the difference between Oreo and Choco …
Bat-god, when he is building watchtowers on the moon and brother eyes in space.
PC Supes.
Metron, is a god and more neutral than an actual hero.

Questions:
Who is credited for the JLA teleporter tech?
What Is Kity Faulkners expertise.
Who built Cyborg?

Paul Newell
10-06-2006, 01:21 AM
Questions:
Who is credited for the JLA teleporter tech?
What Is Kity Faulkners expertise.
Who built Cyborg?
It's Thanagarian technology.
Solar Energy.
His father.

Buried Alien
10-06-2006, 01:32 AM
The DCU has never really had an all-encompassing super-scientist hero like Reed Richards is for the Marvel Universe. During the Silver/Bronze Age, this role was distributed among Batman, the Barry Allen Flash, Pre-COIE Earth-One Superman with his super-intellect, the Ray Palmer Atom, and assorted ohters. At any given time during the 1950s-1980s, any one of these characters became the "go-to-guy" for science matters in the DCU.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Agentum
10-06-2006, 02:18 AM
The deceased Blue Beetle Ted Kord was based on that he was an inventor, but they wanted a children BB so...

But i don't think any hero comes close to Reed in DCU.

Count Vertigo
10-06-2006, 08:48 AM
Let’s try and group the buggers per discipline.

I am only using heroes as the OP indicated.

Temporal physics:
Rip Hunter

Quantum physics:
The Atom

Astro physics:
Adam Strange, Starman

Forensic science:
Batman, Barry Allen

Engineering:
Steel

Medicine:
Dr Mid-nite

Chemistry:
Rex Tyler.

Robotics:
Will Magnus

Computer science:
Oracle

Invention:
Ted Kord (RIP), Mr Miracle.

Genetics / Biology:
Alec Holland, ???

General:
Mr Terrific, The Chief,

Not associated with Earth:
Vril Dox (Brainiac), Captain Comet, Ganthet the guardian.

Furure:
Brainiac 5.

Plot Device Level/ Unknown:
J’onn J’onzz has the knowledge of the entire Martian race contained in his make up. He should be above Reed in many ways. He has never used this consistently though.
Some days he can build space ships and next he can’t tell the difference between Oreo and Choco …
Bat-god, when he is building watchtowers on the moon and brother eyes in space.
PC Supes.
Metron, is a god and more neutral than an actual hero.

Questions:
Who is credited for the JLA teleporter tech?
What Is Kity Faulkners expertise.
Who built Cyborg?

This is a GREAT posting

MWGallaher
10-06-2006, 09:32 AM
I think Steel is often written as if he were DC's Reed Richards: a master of whatever science and technology is needed at the time. For example, I remember a JLA story in which it's pointedly remarked that Steel needs only five minutes to figure out the operation of a completely alien spacecraft (a good engineer, even if under a time constraint, would use every minute available to examine, test, study, confirm...Steel just looks around and decides he can fly it, without knowing anything, so far as I can tell, about how it will actually respond in flight, to name just one thing. That panel in particular stuck in my craw. I just don't buy it.). And in 52, he's called in with the medical crew to treat patients using, oh, I forget, some nanotechnology that he previously used to recreated his own hand or something. Like too many Marvel "science guys", Steel's written as an expert in any subject that comes up.

Syphre Zero
10-06-2006, 09:58 AM
I'll throw in a name I haven't seen mentioned here yet: Dr. Emil Hamilton.

Emil was Superman's "personal science advisor" and go-to guy for all things technical and sciencey; Superman even gave him periodic access to the Fortress of Solitude's Kryptonian technology, something no other scientist in the DCU can claim. Unfortunately for Superman, his trust backfired on him when Emil went crazy and used his technical talents to become the villain Ruin.

swinebread
10-06-2006, 10:10 AM
The Luthor of Earth 3... even though he doesn't exist anymore.
http://supermanica.info/wiki/images/5/50/AlexLuthor.jpg

AllisterH
10-06-2006, 10:24 AM
It also seems that the villains tend to be intellectually stronger.
T.O Morrow. Professor Ivo, Sivana, Luthor, Ultra Humanite, Per Degation, Vandal Savage etc.

That's partly because many of the heroes in DCU are so physically powerful that the villains need an edge.

Matthew E
10-06-2006, 10:44 AM
I think it's also partly because, for a long time, DC didn't really do supervillains very much. Supervillains were a relatively recent invention, compared to superheroes. And DC's history extends back further than Marvel's. So for a long time, if DC wanted an adversary for some hero, one obvious choice was a mad-scientist type of guy.

Kintales
10-06-2006, 10:50 AM
The deceased Blue Beetle Ted Kord was based on that he was an inventor, but they wanted a children BB so...

But i don't think any hero comes close to Reed in DCU.

Glad u and Paragon mentioned Ted Kord. Its true that BB is a genius level inventor but he isn't flesh out and utilised in that area...what a pity :(

Awesome list Paragon but i think you left out GL Kilowog, a gifted genetic scientist. :)

Clear
10-06-2006, 04:01 PM
To add to Paragon's list, Dr. Martin Stein (experienced half of Firestorm) won a Nobel Prize in physics and designed an experimental nuclear reactor.

Count Vertigo
10-06-2006, 04:14 PM
How about adding villains to the list?

Paragon
10-09-2006, 04:03 AM
How about adding villains to the list?
Sounds fun. I will post one a little later.

dancj
10-09-2006, 04:56 AM
The Luthor of Earth 3... even though he doesn't exist anymore.
http://supermanica.info/wiki/images/5/50/AlexLuthor.jpg

Has he died since Grant Morrison's Earth 2 OGN?

Also I'm not sure where he fits int he hierarchy, but Kilowog probably deserves a mention

curefreak
10-09-2006, 05:22 AM
anyone ever notice the similarities between ultra humanite and beast? it just struck me how similar they are (feels dumb)

Paragon
10-09-2006, 07:47 AM
I added the baddies ....

Temporal physics:
Rip Hunter, Per Degaton

Nuclear / Quantum physics:
The Atom, Martin Stein

Astro physics:
Adam Strange, Starman

Forensic science:
Batman, Barry Allen

Engineering / Construction:
Steel, Toyman

Medicine:
Dr Mid-nite

Chemistry:
Rex Tyler, Scarecrow

Robotics:
Will Magnus, T.O. Morrow

Computer science:
Oracle, Calculator

Invention:
Ted Kord, Mr Miracle.

Genetics:
Kilowog, Hugo Strange

Biology:
Alec Holland,, Poison Ivy, Woodrue

Generalist:
Mr Terrific, The Chief, Luthor, Sivana, Ultra Humanite, Brainiac, Prof Hamilton, Vandal Savage, Kobra, Ra’s al Ghul

Not associated with Earth:
Vril Dox (Brainiac), Captain Comet, Ganthet the guardian, Darkseid, Metron

Future:
Brainiac 5.

Plot Device Level / Unknown:
J’onn J’onzz has the knowledge of the entire Martian race contained in his make up.
Bat-god, when he is building watchtowers on the moon and brother eyes in space.
PC Supes.

BigKenW
10-09-2006, 07:41 PM
Ted Kord --- Rest in Peace (Bwah ha ha)
Brainiac 5 --- Depending on the reboot
Steel --- Kickass

Honorable Mention - Mr. Terrific

Gozwald73
10-09-2006, 10:25 PM
...Awesome list Paragon but i think you left out GL Kilowog, a gifted genetic scientist. :)

Also an Engineering extroadinaire - yup Kilowog should definately be on the list, poozers!
:D

TitoJones
10-11-2006, 11:10 AM
Wasn't the female Dr. Light a scientist?

Count Vertigo
10-11-2006, 12:23 PM
Tito's right. Dr. Light 2 was some sort of genius with light based technology I think.