Susan Storm - the balance of power? (spoilers)

[Mulett]

I thought it was interesting that Thor's presence for the pro-reg team seemed to tip the balance so heavily in their favour. Even though its not really Thor.

The only hero who seemed unphased by his presence - and who seemed to have the power to block his power - was Sue Storm.

Now she's left the pro-reg team to join Captain America's squad (taking Johnny with her) I wonder how this affects the balance of power. Not just because of her powers, but also because of her very influential place in the world.

She is incredibly powerful in her own right - but I wonder if Sue's decision to back Captain America will be shown as being monumental or just as one more hero swapping sides.

[XPac]

I thought it was interesting that Thor's presence for the pro-reg team seemed to tip the balance so heavily in their favour. Even though its not really Thor.

The only hero who seemed unphased by his presence - and who seemed to have the power to block his power - was Sue Storm.

Now she's left the pro-reg team to join Captain America's squad (taking Johnny with her) I wonder how this affects the balance of power. Not just because of her powers, but also because of her very influential place in the world.

She is incredibly powerful in her own right - but I wonder if Sue's decision to back Captain America will be shown as being monumental or just as one more hero swapping sides.

The odds are definately a lot better than they were before in regards to the Anti side. Sue and Johnney are both very powerful and experienced heroes. Also, Monica from Next Wave is there... she is one of the more powerful earth bound heroes.

Tony did say that Caps side now has the numbers. Tony's villian army plus whatever clones he has probably still tips the scales in his favor. But Cap now has a legit fighting chance that he didnt really have prior to the fight in CW 3-4.

In this regard, Tony and Reed definately miscalcultated. The Thor Clone really ended up costing their side more than Caps.

[CyberCoyote]

When it comes to the non-cosmic types Sue's pretty much 'The Bomb'. Sure no one has yet to explain how an invisible force field stops lasers, but that's beside the point :)

But you're right, the WIFE of the man who's helping lead the pro-registration side opposes it, that's huge. If you have a hero on the edge, not sure if he/she should put their faith in Stark and Reed or follow their heart, this'd put most of them on the anti-side. How can Susan Richards be so opposed to this when she's right there in the midst of it? That's a clue that there's something going on, even if they don't know what a back stabbing corrupt and despicable organization SHIELD is.

Johnny's no slouch either. In one of the old events he wasted hordes of super-hero facsimilies since he knew they were artificial life forms. Basically he totaled the entire X-Men team in a couple of pages. He wouldn't cut loose like that here, but he's got FAR more potential than anyone gives him credit for.

Power Wise Sue's b-slapped the combined might of the Absorbing Man, Titania, and mind controlled She-Hulk and Thing. Unless they get the drop on her she's fully capable of taking down half the pro side all on her own. Sometimes I worry she's one of those 'too powerful' characters in the MU.

[Slumber Hulk]

Which raises the question? What have Tony and Reed have planned to combat her? You know Tony has a contingency.

Perhaps a psychic attack?

[MatthewC]

Tony did say that Caps side now has the numbers. Tony's villian army plus whatever clones he has probably still tips the scales in his favor. But Cap now has a legit fighting chance that he didnt really have prior to the fight in CW 3-4.

In this regard, Tony and Reed definately miscalcultated. The Thor Clone really ended up costing their side more than Caps.

But Cap can't actually win by fighting, can he?

If his anti-reg team thrashes the pro-reg side, he can't exactly haul them off to prison afterwards. The pro-reg side gets off the ground, heals up, and then tries again. They only have to win once, while the anti-reg side has to win (or at least escape) every time.

[Smokeyjay]

Reed has probably already figured something to take them down way way back in case one of the FF4 every got mind controlled.

[CyberCoyote]

But Cap can't actually win by fighting, can he?

If his anti-reg team thrashes the pro-reg side, he can't exactly haul them off to prison afterwards. The pro-reg side gets off the ground, heals up, and then tries again. They only have to win once, while the anti-reg side has to win (or at least escape) every time.

You're right. If they are going to 'win', or at least change things, there has to be more to it than bloody knuckles. And Sue can provide this, too. Does she know all about 42? Does she know about the cloning or mind controlled super-villains? Get that info out to the press and the anti-reg side has something a lot stronger than a force field to help their cause. At this point I don't even know WHAT they are trying to accomplish, they seem pretty aimless.

And if they were writing Reed right he'd have devised something a lot more capable and less terminal than a fake Thor. People talk about Batman with Prep time, and although he's a better tactician Reed is the greatest scientific genious there is. Of course, then the counter would be that Doom would have an anti-every-hero weapon also, I guess. SHIELD had a gun to kill any of the FF..oh..wait..brain hurting..

[XPac]

But Cap can't actually win by fighting, can he?

If his anti-reg team thrashes the pro-reg side, he can't exactly haul them off to prison afterwards. The pro-reg side gets off the ground, heals up, and then tries again. They only have to win once, while the anti-reg side has to win (or at least escape) every time.

They can't win through fighting alone... but at the same time, because we now know that getting captured means lifetime imprisonment in the negative zone with no hope for trial, it's more important than ever that they not get captured (unless of course Cap allows himself to get captured, since he does have Zemo's key).

[CyberCoyote]

They can't win through fighting alone... but at the same time, because we now know that getting captured means lifetime imprisonment in the negative zone with no hope for trial, it's more important than ever that they not get captured (unless of course Cap allows himself to get captured, since he does have Zemo's key).

I didn't get the T-Bolts issue. What's the key he has, does it allow him to move through time-space or something?

[XPac]

I didn't get the T-Bolts issue. What's the key he has, does it allow him to move through time-space or something?

Honestly I'm not sure what it does. I believe it's vague referred to as the key to that prison, or something to that effect.

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

I didn't get the T-Bolts issue. What's the key he has, does it allow him to move through time-space or something?
Zemo (who was involved in constructing the spatial field whatsies for the Insano Fortress) secretly gave Cap a little key gizmo that he promised would allow Cap and his people to escape the prison once they were captured (he was pretty sure they'd be captured sooner or later). In return he asked for Cap's support in some nebulous crisis that's going to descend upon the Earth involving himself and the Grandmaster. Current (non-CW) issues of Thunderbolts seem to be leading up to this crisis.

And on the topic of this thread, I think Sue will be a major factor in the climax of the war, but not the major factor. In the end, it has got to come down to Cap and Iron Man - whatever 'the moment' is that's the big moment, those two are the ones who'll decide it, no matter who else is around them or what powers they have.

[Slumber Hulk]

But Cap can't actually win by fighting, can he?

If his anti-reg team thrashes the pro-reg side, he can't exactly haul them off to prison afterwards. The pro-reg side gets off the ground, heals up, and then tries again. They only have to win once, while the anti-reg side has to win (or at least escape) every time.


Yikes! Good point. Cap needs to win "war of ideas"

[CyberCoyote]

Zemo (who was involved in constructing the spatial field whatsies for the Insano Fortress) secretly gave Cap a little key gizmo that he promised would allow Cap and his people to escape the prison once they were captured (he was pretty sure they'd be captured sooner or later). In return he asked for Cap's support in some nebulous crisis that's going to descend upon the Earth involving himself and the Grandmaster. Current (non-CW) issues of Thunderbolts seem to be leading up to this crisis.

And on the topic of this thread, I think Sue will be a major factor in the climax of the war, but not the major factor. In the end, it has got to come down to Cap and Iron Man - whatever 'the moment' is that's the big moment, those two are the ones who'll decide it, no matter who else is around them or what powers they have.

Hmm, but Zemo already killed the Grand Master and it looks like Fabe's run on the T-Bolts is wrapping up. A thread that was tied off sooner than expected or something more?

Of course the reason i don't collect T-Bolts anymore is because I loathe Zemo (or any other 'hero-villains' which is what kills CW for me) and it pains me to think Cap may be indebted to him. Maybe the key is a ruse? Doubt it, Cap gets captured and sets the whole lot free (or he passes it off to someone else)

[Jmacq1]

Given the variant cover for Civil War #5....

It looks more likely that Sue's going to convince Namor to take some direct action. Which could be a big factor overall in convincing the nation that the "Civil War" (particularly the pro-reg side) is misplacing priorities by hunting heroes when there are other threats out there.

[kane]

I hope she will stay neutral. Its okay not agreeing with her husband, but she should not fight against him, its not loyal.

[Atom_basher]

I hope they dont downplay Monica Rambeau's powers here, imho, she could probably solo a good amount of the pro side all by herself

[XPac]

I hope she will stay neutral. Its okay not agreeing with her husband, but she should not fight against him, its not loyal.

Well, that goes both ways. If Reed's entire team believes that the registration is wrong, should he choose to stay neutral? Or it it disloyal for him to stay PRO?

[Edward J Cunningham]

When it comes to the non-cosmic types Sue's pretty much 'The Bomb'. Sure no one has yet to explain how an invisible force field stops lasers, but that's beside the point :)

It shouldn't, but if she turns invisible, the lasers should pass through her. It's LIGHT, after all.

[IamtheRock3]

You're right. If they are going to 'win', or at least change things, there has to be more to it than bloody knuckles. And Sue can provide this, too. Does she know all about 42? Does she know about the cloning or mind controlled super-villains? Get that info out to the press and the anti-reg side has something a lot stronger than a force field to help their cause. At this point I don't even know WHAT they are trying to accomplish, they seem pretty aimless.

And if they were writing Reed right he'd have devised something a lot more capable and less terminal than a fake Thor. People talk about Batman with Prep time, and although he's a better tactician Reed is the greatest scientific genious there is. Of course, then the counter would be that Doom would have an anti-every-hero weapon also, I guess. SHIELD had a gun to kill any of the FF..oh..wait..brain hurting..


Yea The Anti side seem bad at PR
Really I know Stark got the money

but it aint like those on the Anti side aint got connections. You can punch this promblem away.

[JeffreyWKramer]

I hope they dont downplay Monica Rambeau's powers here, imho, she could probably solo a good amount of the pro side all by herself
Written intelligently, she could wipe out most of the other side without even trying very hard. Her and Sue together should be enough to win most fights that don't include numerous gods, Eternals or high-level telepaths.

One of my problems with CIVIL WAR is that the fights as presented don't make much sense. Sure, Cable isn't at his full power level with the current tech replacements, but he can still put up a lot more fight than we've seen from him. I expect the same will be true if they bother portraying Monica as doing anything.

[Sanagi]

You know what would be a really, really mean countermeasure against Sue? Well, remember how she got her force field ability in the first place - Reed basically gave it to her, with an experimental power-boosting machine. What if he still has that machine, and it has a "reverse polarities" button?

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

It shouldn't, but if she turns invisible, the lasers should pass through her. It's LIGHT, after all.
I'd always been under the impression that her 'invisibility' was her using force fields to bend light around herself - in which case, she can definitely affect a laser.

[garin]

Which raises the question? What have Tony and Reed have planned to combat her? You know Tony has a contingency.
He'll probably strap Franklin and Valeria to his armor.

[Jmacq1]

I hope they dont downplay Monica Rambeau's powers here, imho, she could probably solo a good amount of the pro side all by herself

They've pretty much been downplaying the powers of -anyone- that doesn't simply fly (Falcon), Grow to large sizes (Stature, Goliath), is being used specifically as a weapon (FrankenThor), or is named "Iron Man".

Pretty much everyone else has been reduced to generic punching, jumping, and kicking as well as the occasional teleport (Cloak).

[Cardiac]

I think it will be huge. Sue gives the anti-reg side a huge defensive cornerstone to work from. Instead of relying so much on teleportaiton, they can now create offense from Sue's defense. Her forcefields can protect individuals and this could be huge. The Torch is very powerful and gives them a big boost for airborne attacks. The Torch and Falcon would make a huge combination. The Anti-side migth actually win.

[Loestal]

Written intelligently, she could wipe out most of the other side without even trying very hard. Her and Sue together should be enough to win most fights that don't include numerous gods, Eternals or high-level telepaths.

One of my problems with CIVIL WAR is that the fights as presented don't make much sense. Sure, Cable isn't at his full power level with the current tech replacements, but he can still put up a lot more fight than we've seen from him. I expect the same will be true if they bother portraying Monica as doing anything.


Ehh...not 100% true. Cable is without his force field for 4 minutes after he teleports. So...lets say the fight in CW#3 lasted no more than..2 minutes, then the arrival of Thor was another 1 to 2 minutes. That's about right, plus...he couldn't even teleport at the end...he had to use Cloak's ability, and he could of used it to stop the lighting like Sue did.

[Trolt]

I doesn't matter if there are a dozen Sue Storms on the Anti team.

The trump card is still SENTRY (whats he doing wasting his time with wolverine)
If everyone wants their chars not "downplayed" i'd hate to see what the sentry would do to the anti-side.

[Loestal]

I doesn't matter if there are a dozen Sue Storms on the Anti team.

The trump card is still SENTRY (whats he doing wasting his time with wolverine)
If everyone wants their chars not "downplayed" i'd hate to see what the sentry would do to the anti-side.


The Sentry appears to be trying to smooth over relations with the Inhumans...it seems by the preview pages. I don't know about the Wolverine stuff, I really doubt it's terribly important and is most likely a side thing.

[HalWho]

I hope she will stay neutral. Its okay not agreeing with her husband, but she should not fight against him, its not loyal.

Neither is that the pre-reg is doing to anti-reg.

[Trolt]

you mean arresting criminals ?

[Karl H]

And if they were writing Reed right he'd have devised something a lot more capable and less terminal than a fake Thor. People talk about Batman with Prep time, and although he's a better tactician Reed is the greatest scientific genious there is. Of course, then the counter would be that Doom would have an anti-every-hero weapon also, I guess. SHIELD had a gun to kill any of the FF..oh..wait..brain hurting..


I don't believe it's in Reed's character to plot contingencies against every member of his family... I mean, what's the point of a huge significant character driven event like his wife leaving them if he pulls an ultimate nullifier on her a$$???

[Thursaiz]

Given the variant cover for Civil War #5....

It looks more likely that Sue's going to convince Namor to take some direct action. Which could be a big factor overall in convincing the nation that the "Civil War" (particularly the pro-reg side) is misplacing priorities by hunting heroes when there are other threats out there.

Or, she could be trying to convince him not to take direct action. If Namor finds out about Tony's cloning, as an Illuminati, he would be pissed. If Tony has a Namor clone, that might be the precursor to war with Atlantis.

[Charagon]

Cripes, I didn't even think about Namor.


So not only does Sue joining with Cap's team give him a huge tactical advantage in battle and her very presence makes registration seem like not such a good idea to the general public, but she could actually help secure the support of the whole freaking country of Atlantus (and after the Green Goblin just got done blowing up a bunch of Atlantians on the Government's dime they may be ready to go to war anyway).



The day Sue left will probably be marked as the turning point in the battle. Both she and Peter, the people closest to the people in charge of the whole pro-reg thing, left on the same day.

[Haunt]

I don't believe it's in Reed's character to plot contingencies against every member of his family... I mean, what's the point of a huge significant character driven event like his wife leaving them if he pulls an ultimate nullifier on her a$$???

of course he has contingencies. don't you remember when he blew a big hole in Ben's chest? he had planned for the eventuality of Doctor Doom possessing one of them.

[element13]

i don't think the anti-side is as helpless as some people think...i mean they have

monica(pulsar)
sue storm
storm
dagger
cloak
namor
cap
black panther
human torch


homestly, monica, sue, storm, torch, cloak, and dagger is one hell of a powerful team